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I think the video part is very important.

I think if you can just look at yourself as an overall coach and not just put yourself in a box as a video coordinator, they helped your growth the most.

Tevin Brown is an assistant coach for the Texas Legends in the NBA G League.

He has also served as an assistant for Coach Mike Taylor and the Winnipeg Sea Bears of the Canadian Elite Basketball League for the past two seasons.

Prior to his professional coaching opportunities, Tevin worked as a pro skills trainer with Tyler Relf Basketball in Dallas, Texas.

He also served as the special assistant to the Head Coach and Director of Player Development at the University of Texas at Tyler from 2020 to 2021.

Tevin got his start in coaching at All Saints Episcopal High School in Tyler, Texas as a high school girls assistant and seventh grade girls head coach.

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Get out pen and paper before you listen to this episode with Tevin Brown, assistant Coach for the Texas Legends in the NBA G League.

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads podcast.

It's Mike Klinsing here with my co host Jason Sunkel tonight and we are pleased to be joined by Tevin Brown, assistant coach of the Texas Legends of the NBA G League.

Tevin, welcome to the hoopette spot, man.

Happy to be here.

I'm glad to be here.

Thank you for the invite.

Absolutely.

We are thrilled to have you on.

Looking forward to diving into all the things that you've been able to do in your career.

Let's start by going back in time to when you were a kid.

Tell me a little bit about some of your first experiences with the game of basketball.

What made you fall in love with it?

So funny story, right?

My dad.

My dad actually played basketball in college as well, and he was the one that introduced me to basketball.

But it's funny because basketball wasn't my first love.

My first sport love was actually football because it's just something that came natural to me.

I played football a lot more than I played basketball.

I think basketball was easy to do alone.

So I kind of gravitated towards it over.

Over time.

Just throughout my journey of basketball, especially at a young age, I had a lot of mentors around me that was older, like high school guys, guys that was in middle school.

So from like the age of 6 to roughly 17, 18, I always play with older guys.

Right.

So I wouldn't say I didn't fall in love with basketball in the full process of basketball actually, until my freshman year of high school.

Up until then, I always mingle between football and basketball.

Then throughout my younger years, from like 6th to 8th grade, most of my summers were actually spent in football practice.

And I actually own a basketball court.

And that's just kind of ironic because I loved football that much, but it was a time in my life where I had got a couple concussions younger during my younger years that I kind of just faded towards basketball because one, I could do it by myself in a park.

Then two, it allowed me to be creative and it allowed me to express myself in a way that football didn't allow me to then from my ninth grade on up until now, like, I've always loved football.

I mean, basketball, I'm sorry.

And basketball just been a part of my life and I love to do what I do now.

So when you were a kid.

So once you started gravitating towards basketball, so as a high school player, what did you do to get better?

And how does that compare to the way that you see kids coming up in the game today?

Yeah, for me.

For.

For me, my growth and development as a younger player.

Growing up, I spent a lot of time out on my own.

On my own.

So my grandma.

I saved my grandma during the summers, and she.

She built, like, a goal and some concrete.

That's all I had for most days, and I had to roll.

I wanted more space, so I had to go in concrete.

So most of my summer days were spent by myself because my two favorite players were Gilbert Arenas and AI Right.

So most of my days were spent in the backyard during the moves that I would see them do the night before.

Then, playing wise, I would play with older kids.

So I play with kids that were older than me.

But once I got to the age of 12 to 13, I was good enough to start playing with adults, right?

And that added a side of toughness to me that I didn't know.

I needed the IQ and being able to understand how to play with better players and be a leader, right?

And understand, like, you're not gonna get the ball, right?

They only gonna ask you to play defense.

You only can shoot when they pass it to you, right?

So you learn how to.

I learned how to do other things at an early age.

I think, over time, throughout my basketball career, my coaching career, that ultimately helped me become a better leader just through those small fires that I had to deal with at a young age.

I think that one of the things that we've talked about a lot on here, Tevin, is just the way that the basketball landscape has changed when it comes to young players, where now so much of basketball is kids playing in their own age group, with an official, with parents in the stands, with a coach on the sidelines.

And I'm kind of like you in that.

I grew up in an era where I played a lot of pickup basketball with a lot of guys that were older, bigger, stronger than me.

And I felt like my development as a player was impacted in such a positive way by the opportunity to play against older players.

And from what you just described, it sounds like that's the same thing that happened for you.

And it just feels like when you look at the way that kids grow up in the game today versus that ability to play against older players and to be able to develop your iq, as you said, I just think that, man, it's so valuable to be able to play pickup basketball with players who are older because it just forces you, as you said, to play a role, to be able to understand, hey, how can I impact winning in other ways besides just scoring and it's just to me, it's something that I think kids today in so many ways are missing that they just don't get that same opportunity to play pick up basketball the way you did.

Did you have one or two guys that you lucked up to or that kind of took you under their wing in that time when you were playing with some of those older players, was there one or two guys that sort of served as a basketball mentor to you?

For lack of a better way of saying it?

Yeah, for sure.

So my hometown is Pine Bluff, Arkansas, which most people probably don't know where it is, but it's 45 minutes south of Little Rock, the capital of Arkansas.

So my cousin Brandon Patterson, which was a standout basketball player in Arkansas at the time, he ended up going to Ole Miss, 66 Wing.

Then he transferred to University of Arkansas, Little Rock and he played there for his last two years of his basketball career.

And he took me on his.

He took me under his wing, right.

So he's roughly 15 years older than me.

But we spent.

When he came home for his Christmas breaks, Thanksgiving summers, he kind of just mentored me.

He taught me the game.

He loved Kobe.

I love Kobe.

So we always had that in common then obviously my dad, right, My dad was a great leader for me.

And as you just mentioned about parents, right.

My dad wasn't like overbearing.

He didn't scream at me ever.

Throughout my career of playing basketball, from the age of three until I finished at 23, never once yelled at me.

We had like a verbal, non verbal communication of eye contact during the game, right.

Like I knew what he expected.

He had standards for me and I executed him.

And we have a post game talk and that's that.

And he allowed me to develop through work ethic and just toughness and showing me tough love, being honest.

And so I think those two people are my two biggest mentors.

When you think back to your time as a player in high school, what's your favorite memory of playing high school basketball?

Wow.

It's a great question.

That's an amazing question.

I think just all the experiences I had with my teammates, being able to just build different relationships, especially my sophomore year coming in, I wasn't planned, right.

And going through the journey had been name starter my sophomore year and just being able to build those connections with the seniors.

And I think that's like the, my favorite part probably my sophomore year, spending time with older guys getting different experiences.

They have cars, so obviously you can do more with people who had cars in High school.

So my sophomore year was probably my greatest memory.

And I think I had a breakout game my sophomore year where I had like 18 points and like 7 assists as a sophomore, first time starting.

So right away that's like the memory that sticks out the most.

With college basketball always on your radar from the time you were young or at what point did you start to think, hey, I might be able to play a little bit beyond high school.

So it's funny, I played EYBL with Arkansas wings from my freshman year of high school up until my junior year of high school.

And I could.

I never thought about it in a grand, great, grand scheme of things.

I was always just like, I'm just playing AG basketball.

I'm playing against great players because I was class of 2020, I mean 2014.

So we had Devin Booker, Tyler Yul, is those guys in our class.

And obviously I saw them right, Like I saw they had NBA talent or NBA skill sets from early on.

But for me it didn't hit me college basketball until my junior year.

Like, okay, like I played against this guy, he's going to college.

I played against that guy, he's going to college.

That's why I believe in myself enough that I believe I can play college basketball as well.

So it worked out perfectly.

My high school coach helped me a ton starting my junior year and that led me, ultimately led me to the schools that I ended up going to.

Tell me a little bit about the recruiting process.

What was it like?

Obviously you had your high school coach involved in it.

Was your dad involved, your AAU coach?

Just what was the process like for you?

So my process was honestly pretty slow, especially early on because at the time my playstyle was a quick guard who can get in the lane, crave for others.

I wasn't the greatest shooter being five'nine five'ten not.

Not being the great, the greatest shooter definitely hurt my development a lot.

I mean my recruitment process a lot.

So my high school coach had a close friend by the name of Chris Parker at Arkansas State Mid south, which is a junior college in West Memphis, Arkansas.

And that was honestly my only offer.

He brought me in on a visit.

I played with the guys.

I impressed him.

He offered me as, as we was driving back home two hours and I committed the next day because that was the only coach that showed interest in me.

He brought me in, he showed me love.

The team was great, the environment was great.

So I didn't have much coming out of high school recruitment wise.

And that's why I ultimately chose the juco route and it worked out perfect for me.

What was it like playing at the juco level?

I know we've had several coaches on that have coached at that level and they've talked about obviously the positives of giving guys opportunities both academically and athletically.

And then they've also talked about some of the challenges of.

You may have guys in there who maybe aren't serious about their academics or guys who have that talent to be able to play at the D1 level, but forever, whatever reason, they end up at the juco.

So what was your juco experience like?

It was eye opening.

I didn't know.

Like I said, I knew zero about juco basketball.

Zero about juco basketball.

I didn't, I didn't understand, I didn't have a understanding of D1, D2, D3, you know, I, I didn't know the difference between levels.

So My juco experience, especially my freshman was eye opening, especially coming in as a three year start in high school.

I'm coming in with 22 year old sophomores or 21 year old freshmen that have been injured or took other routes before coming to juco.

So I had no real feel of what my experience would be like.

So my freshman year of juco I didn't play a ton because we had a sophomore point guard and our head coach wanted him to get recruited which, and I completely understood it.

I got my, I got my minutes.

I impacted winning by not turning the ball over.

Then my sophomore year I was granted the opportunity to start and our team, we had a really good year.

That led to me getting more D2 entrance my sophomore year of junior college and that ultimately led me to D2UT Tyler in Tyler, Texas.

So I think my juco experience overall was great eye opening and just, just made me realize that it was much more basketball out there.

There's really good players.

We played against a ton of D1 guys, especially the schools that were in Mississippi.

The guys were high level.

And that kind of showed me like, okay, I kind of have still have a long way to go.

And that kind of just motivated me to continue to work on my game and continue to grow as a player.

Funny how many people have no idea again how good all these different levels of college basketball are.

I'm sure that you've seen it over the course of time and I know you've coached some AAU and obviously in the position that you're in now, you talk to people all over the basketball world, but there's so much I don't Even know if it's misinformation, but just lack of knowledge of people understanding how good you have to be to play at any level of college basketball.

I don't care if you're playing division one, I don't care if you play division three.

You're going juco, whatever.

There is players everywhere and it's just the level of skill and talent that you have to be able to.

Have to be able to play college basketball.

I think it's one of the most underrated things.

When you start going around to watching AU tournaments all over the country, there's just, there's a huge misconception about how good you have to be to play college basketball.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I think people don't understand how athletic the players are at that level and how fast those gaps close when you transition from high school to juco, then from juco team in a D1 level.

Right.

Those gaps, those decisions, the standard accountability is much more higher at higher levels.

And I think a lot of people should watch more juco basketball, watch the NAI level, watch the D2, D3 level because there's some phenomenal players at all, at all of those levels.

There's no question about that.

When you're in your, during your college basketball career, what are you thinking about career wise, long term, and is coaching on your radar while you're still playing?

We always say that there's kind of two camps of people who get to coaching.

Right.

That one camp is somebody who's been drawn up plays on napkins since they were like 8 years old and they thought the game as a coach and they always knew they wanted to be a coach.

And then there's another faction of people who they play the game and they play it.

They're focused on being a player and then at some point they're playing.

Career comes to an end, they look around and they're like, well, what do you mean basketball's over?

Like how, how can that be?

And then that's kind of how they get to coaching.

So I don't know if coaching was already on your radar while you, while you're still playing in college or what's the process for getting to coaching?

So funny.

I'll just take you back to me.

It's like a player where I was the workout guy, the kid that you see on Twitter, Instagram, workout two or three times a day, got the ball handling gloves, got the ball handling outside shooting, all of those things.

So that right there allowed me to get creative with player development.

Right.

I didn't even know at the time what I was doing.

I was more so in the moment, like you just stated, in the moment.

Focused on my game, just getting better as a basketball player and just doing what I love.

Right.

I transferred to ut Tyler stress fracture early on, like my junior year early on, like in October had a stress fracture.

And at the time, a couple years before, Paul George had just hurt his leg, right.

So doctors were overly cautious of that injury.

So I had to take two to three months off with nothing but pool workouts.

Had pool workouts.

I could lift or I could just go in the gym and do form shots.

So that was my workout routine for two, two and a half, three straight months my junior year.

So I came back my junior year.

I didn't play as well.

Starting point guard.

We were winning.

I played spot minutes.

Then season ended.

Our head coach at the time, Jamie Copeland, was working with a company called pgc.

I saw a great opportunity to join pgc, did an interview.

They hired me.

That became my summer job.

Did I.

Was I still focused on coaching after basketball?

No, I was just looking at PGC as an opportunity to do something I love.

I'm helping the next generation to get better at basketball.

And that's all I was looking at.

Just like, okay, I'm making solid money as a college student in the summer coaching basketball.

It was fun.

Then I hit some adversity, right?

And I might go off the rails a little with the story, but I had some adversity.

Go for it.

Go for it.

I got in like obviously being a college student, having fun, not focused on the right things, more so focused on basketball.

More so than the school part of it, right?

So had a.

The following year, I didn't take care of my business, but second half of my junior year, so I was in.

Ended up ineligible for my senior year.

That was supposed to be my senior year.

So I couldn't play, right?

So I went down the dark, dark alley, dark mindset.

I was like, basketball is gone.

Like what?

Like what?

Like I can't play basketball.

So I was supposed to stay in school.

I.

I was still in a dark place.

I flunked out of school.

So I had school go.

And basketball disappeared within five months.

Had a great summer.

PGC come back August, I'm ineligible.

Go all August to December.

Wasn't focused again because I just wasn't in my right headspace.

Ineligible again.

So now I'm out of school.

My mom wants me to come back home to figure it out.

So I went home for Christmas for Like two weeks.

And I was like, mom, I can't.

Like I can't stay.

I have to figure this out, right?

So I went back.

I went back to Tyler, Texas to figure it out.

Like, didn't have a place to stay or have family to depend on, but I didn't have a residence.

I only have my things in my car.

In a basketball dream that I didn't know if it's going to ever come true again.

That's all I had at the time.

So during that time, I just got a job at Chick Fil A.

Got a job at Chick Fil A, Was working at Chick Fil A on my lunch breaks at 3 to 4 o'clock, I would leave.

I would leave.

I would leave and go to the gym because I had.

My friends were still on the team and I, they obviously we still had a connection.

So I would just leave and go play with them for an hour, then go back to work.

Then every morning at 5am before I go to work at Chick Fil A, I get in the gym, lift weights, shoot, go to work at nine, work from nine to three, go hoop, then work from four to seven.

And that was my routine every day for almost like a year and a half until I was at UT Tyler.

Then Lewis Wilson became the head coach and he's at Lower Marymount now with Stan Johnson.

And that was the coach that gave me my opportunity to play my senior year of basketball.

Played there, injuries again, got a concussion, right?

But with Lou, with Lewis Wilson, why we call him Lou, he.

He gave me a perspective of basketball that I've never experienced before.

And that was he cared about the person first.

And that had meant so much to me because what, like the dark place I was coming out of and like, I just needed like love at the time, right?

And somebody to just show me, like the way to go, like, give me a light.

And he showed me that by just loving me of who I was and accepted what I had to bring.

So to get back on the team, he challenged me.

I had to get a 3.5 in my summer classes and I got.

Ended up getting like a 3.8.

And I was able to get on the team my senior year, got back on the team, got injured.

So he kind of, to long story short, he kind of mentored me.

I became like a player coach my senior year.

Studied all the scouts.

I was in a coaching meeting sometimes.

Still no direction of like, oh, I'm gonna coach afterwards.

Then after my senior basketball doing that, I helped the players player development work the guys out.

Then after the season, I was sitting in his office one day and he was like, juwan, come file these papers for me.

And I was in there filing papers.

Then the next week he was like, yeah, I'm gonna have you as my special assistant to head coach.

And it's kind of how I fell into it.

So I'm sorry for the long story right there.

No, man, it's an awesome story.

I mean, when you start talking about having the game pulled away from you because of injury and then trying to figure out, hey, how can I come back and get involved with this thing that I love?

And as you said, when somebody takes the time to invest in you not just as your worth as a basketball player, but your worth as a person, as a human being, and does something like that for you, I mean, that's a powerful thing that anybody who, who, anybody who has a mentor like that, I mean, just, it makes all the difference, right?

Makes all the difference in your life and, and puts you on a path that, you know, that you're still on today.

Tell me about what it's like to kind of go behind that curtain of the coach's office for the first time when you're sitting in those meetings.

And I think it sounds like from your description of kind of how you were, you're similar to when I was playing.

I didn't think at all about coaching.

Like I kind of thought, hey, coaches, they show up at 3:00 for practice and practice ends at 6:00 and they go home and you know, I go do my stuff and then I'll, I'll see them again tomorrow and practice at 3.

I had no idea what coaching was all about.

So how did you, when you first got that look behind the scenes, were you surprised, shocked?

Did you kind of know what you were getting into?

Or just what was your perspective when you first sort of went behind the curtain?

The coaching curtain?

Yeah, I was just wide eyed kid that had no idea.

I was just excited to be there.

So anything they asked me to do, I was like, yes, I do it.

Yes, I do it.

Yes, I do it.

Didn't understand our workflow or exactly what they wanted.

I was like, yes, I do it.

So I was just open to any opportunity, right?

But again, Lewis Wilson, for example, he set a great example for me, right?

Because every, every single day he reminded me of, he reminded me of a simple quota.

If you care enough, one day, you'll be good enough.

And that's just something that stuck with me.

And he was Also me saying, if you work hard enough, you're gonna get exactly where you want to be.

And he showed me that every single day, challenged me with that every single day.

So behind the scenes, it was more so of.

This is just like me playing basketball.

Like me as a player, I have to put in time now and just in a different way.

Breaking down film, copying papers, typing out practice plans, working guys out, picking guys up, getting them checking classes.

Right.

Same exact thing I had to do for basketball as a player.

Go to the weight room, watch film, pick up my teammates.

So the moments me, I had as a player ultimately prepared me for the moment of as a coach.

So I wouldn't.

I wouldn't say it was a huge adjustment, because I think those moments as me as a player is building that those characteristics allowed me to adjust to coaching more smoothly.

Yeah, the good thing about that was you were making a ton of money during this, right?

Yeah, my.

Yeah, actually, Lewis Wilson, he did a great deal for me.

I remember.

I never forget, he walked out the office, he was like, I'll be right back.

I got a surprise for you.

And I was, like, so excited.

Looking forward to it.

Because he.

He was a great.

He's a great guy.

So he always had stuff up his sleeve.

He came back in the office.

I was sitting at the desk.

He was like, look, I got 600 for you a month to be a student assistant, special assistant to the head coach.

And I was just so excited.

And I was still living at the dorm.

I called my mom.

I was like, mom, I'm.

I'm getting 600.

I was so excited.

Had no idea.

No idea.

Yeah, it's.

I mean, your story right there is one that has been repeated many times on the podcast of somebody who gets their dream job and is making nothing or next to nothing.

And then there's always a story of the guy who's on the staff that looks out for somebody who is not quite at the same level that they are.

And I think that it's.

It's a very, very common story in terms of starting out.

People have this glamorous vision of what coaching is, and those people are the ones that they.

They watch TV and they see the coaches on the sideline that are coaching in the Final Four, that are coaching in the NBA, and they think that those things just kind of happen and fall into people's laps.

And the reality is that 99.5% of the coaches out there in America have a story similar to yours, that it's not just, hey, I wake up one day and I'm on the sideline as a head coach and making a ton of money.

It's, it's work and it's.

At the same time, it's fun.

Right?

I mean, you talked about it like you just.

That first experience, you got to do all those different things and you got to get your hand in a bunch of different things.

And that allowed you to learn and to grow and to be around the game and around the players and around the coaching staff and around a mentor that cared about you.

And again, that's really when you start talking about the road to the coaching profession.

It's a common one.

I mean, it's one that, that a lot of guys take.

And you know, you get to that first stop and I think you said it really well that you, you keep working hard and you keep doing what you're supposed to do and you keep learning, you keep growing, and then eventually you get opportunities and, you know, who knows where it eventually ends up leading you to.

And let's.

If you circle back to your mentality at that time, I mean, obviously, I'm guessing at that point you're just, man, I'm just thrilled to be able to coach college basketball and get your 600 bucks a month.

And those things that you just talked about, did you have any kind of a path, a plan, a thought in mind of, hey, someday maybe I'd like to coach at the professional level.

Someday maybe I, maybe I want to go and coach at the high school level, which I know you did before.

Did you want to stay at the college level?

Did you have any plan at all or was it just kind of, hey, let's just kind of see where this thing takes us.

Yeah.

When I first started, I think I just see where, see where, see where the journey takes me.

Right?

I, I didn't, I.

As.

Even as a player, I'm not sure if it was a good thing or a bad thing, but I didn't have many short term learn, long term goals.

Right.

I was just trying to be the best I can be, play well when the moment came, work as hard as I possibly came when the lights were off.

And that was my mindset with as, with coaching as well.

I mean, I think as I went throughout the year, my first year of coaching at ut, Tyler, Lewis, Wilson and other people just spoke so much life into me.

As far as validating, like, Juwan, you're doing a great job.

Continue to keep it up.

So it kept encouraging, they kept encouraging me, kept encouraging me, and that just fed the curiosity in me, like, what more can I do, right?

So immediately I have.

I had a lot of player development responsibilities throughout my first year of coaching.

And the players enjoyed the workouts.

They wanted to watch film, they wanted to get in the gym more.

So my thing was.

My thing was okay, like, this is good, this is cool, this is cool.

I'm okay.

I'm gaining my confidence.

Season went on, and I finished my season.

And then Tyler ref.

Which he's a trainer in Dallas, Texas.

I worked out with him from 2016 until whenever I finished playing in 2019, 2020, he offered me a job to come be a skills trainer.

Right?

Young at the time.

I was 23, 24, young.

I did the coaching for a year.

I was like, okay, skills training, player development for a business full time.

Sure, let's do it.

I took the job in April.

I finished at ut, Tyler in June.

But in between June and October of that year, I went back home to Jacksonville, Florida, and I ran my training business.

And during that time, I was training pros all the way down to kindergartners first grade.

And that just allowed me to get even more experience as a coach, create my brand, like, create a business, get creative with my development plans, and help kids get better.

So I did that.

I moved to Dallas, Texas in October of 2021.

So did that for a year.

So I started.

We worked with like many pros, right?

Tyler has a huge clientele from kindergarten all the way up to NBA players.

And even the top players in Dallas worked with him as well.

And during that time, again, people spoke life.

They spoke life, encouraged me a lot.

Curiosity, right?

You're doing a good, good job.

Good job.

Pat on the back there.

Then I met some NBA people and I was like, okay, I love the NBA game, so start setting an NBA game.

And then that just led on to me.

Started posting on Twitter, posting on Instagram, Just putting content out there and just start to add value to other people.

Then over time, the right people saw it.

The assistant coach with the Texas Legends at the time end up recommending me for interview, and the rest was history.

All right, so tell them.

Let's talk a little bit about the training part of it, and then we'll come back to getting the job with the Legends and that part.

Tell me a little bit about the training side of it, what you liked about it, what was challenging about it, and sort of what your process was for how you went about training kids.

Yeah, for sure.

So, number one process for me, what I really liked about it was the opportunity to really impact people again, like, going back to my experience, like, that feeling that I felt when Lewis stepped in my life as, like, a player.

Like, he put.

He always said, I'm gonna put two feet in, two feet in your life at all times.

I got two feet in your life, right?

So when I started working with players on my own, like, that was the same thing I was trying to do for them.

I had opportunity to be around the game I love, had opportunity to build relationships.

Then ultimately I had an opportunity to just be around so many people.

It impacts so many people.

And that's what kept driving me every single day.

Yeah, I think the challenges for me early on, especially with the training business, was like, how.

How would you market people to get more business?

Like, what separates you from the next person, right?

And people say comparison is the enemy of joy.

Great.

But at the same time, I'm a young coach in a business where it's a lot of trainers, so I tend to compare myself, right?

I'm looking at this trainer's page, right?

I'm looking at that traders page.

I'm sending coaching clinics, right?

And my process of learning was, okay, I'm learning from all these different people, right?

So how now can I.

How can I put on the headphones and quiet the noise and build my own philosophies and build my own niche?

So that's my process of getting players better, right?

So for me, especially with young players, everything started with dribble, pass, shoot, super simple.

Then base it off your needs.

Put you in situations to showcase what you need to work on, but also what you're good at.

And that's kind of like how I process things.

Then for professional players at the time, I use something called SWOT analysis, which is strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats.

It's normally like a business plan.

Fatherly strengths are what you do well.

Weaknesses or what you're not as good at.

Opportunities or like opportunities for growth, growth areas.

Then threats would simply be, what could the defense do to take you out of the game?

And that's kind of like how I evaluated and handled my player development with my professional athletes, high school athletes.

It was more once you got to your junior year, sophomore, junior year.

Let's start fine tuning, right?

If you can shoot really well, catch and shoot, how can we now get you really comfortable with making decisions off the balance?

And I'm talking about just catch and shoot.

Use your pump fake as your threat.

Now how can we get you to 1, 2, 3, 4 bounces to the rim, then that's when we get into the passing decision.

So that was my process and how I looked at player development during that time.

Did you use a lot of film while you were doing your player development stuff or was that something that wasn't a part of it?

Because I know there are some guys that use a lot of film while they're training that others just don't have access to that.

With, with some of their, with some of their people.

How'd you go about using or not using film?

No, absolutely.

Again, I loved film, always have loved film.

So film was a huge part, even from the kindergarten.

The, the kindergartners, right?

The thing about kindergartners writing younger players that they love the icons of the NBA, right?

The Kyrie's, the Lucas, the LeBron James, the KD's, Devin Bookers.

Right.

The better players, right.

So if you can find a simple clip of them doing the move that they're working on, they're instantly bought into that, right?

So that was my way of, I wouldn't say tricking the mind for younger kids to get engaged, but that was my way of grabbing their attention.

It's like, hey, look, your favorite player is doing this right now.

I believe in you enough that you can do the same.

And they're all excited.

Then for the professional players, it was more synergy and numbered breakdowns along with the film.

So with the professional players, there's way more detail than with the younger players.

It was, how could I create curiosity and engagement?

I think that really when you talked about, and initially when you answered this question about how do you kind of try to differentiate yourself from other trainers?

I think that's always the challenge.

And it comes back to me to, right.

Being prepared and being able to demonstrate your value to the players, to their families, and can you get a guy better or can you get a player better?

And if you can do that, I think there's, there's value.

Unfortunately, a lot of times, as I'm sure you know, out in the market, there's trainers that are out there just kind of collecting their hourly paycheck and not necessarily getting players better.

And just like in a lot of other spaces in youth basketball, there's people that are doing it really, really well and there's other people who are just kind of out there going through and sort of milking the system.

And so I think when it comes to training, whether you're from a coach's perspective or whether you're an athlete looking for a trainer, I just think that what you need Is to look for somebody who's prepared, who's getting to know the player.

Getting to know, as you said, you mentioned the SWAT piece of it, which I think is a great way to be able to analyze a player's game and to be able to help them to figure out, hey, how can we get this player better?

How can we help them to perform better in games?

Which ultimately is what it's all about.

And so the training business is just very interesting as it's exploded.

It's just become a market that is extremely saturated.

And it's always interesting to talk to people who have done it and.

And the people who have done it well, like yourself, are the people who have put the time in to study their craft and understand what it is that they're actually trying to do to help a person get better and not somebody that's just gone and found some videos on YouTube and throwing those out there with whatever players they're working with.

So the training business is always an interesting one to me.

Let's jump to your experience and getting the legends job.

What do you remember about the interview process of actually getting the job?

Yeah, I remember it was six weeks.

It was six weeks.

So I was excited.

I was like, okay, is this.

Is this working out?

Or like, what's happening?

Or is I'm.

Am I moving on?

Did I get the job?

Did they choose somebody else?

So it was like me, I was very anxious because it was new and I was so excited for it.

Interview process was like six, seven weeks or whatever.

So I had to have to do like some workouts in front of the coaches, obviously.

Then during the time, obviously we have the G League tryouts, right?

Had two G league tryouts.

And I was.

That was part of my interview process to come coach, right?

They wanted to see how well I can coach, command the room, draw, draw plays on the board.

Like kind of gauge where I was as a coach.

I did that.

Then the following night, well, the same night, I had to do like a private workout where I had to lead a station, right?

Pick and roll breakdown.

Like, how well can you break down pick and roll defense but also teach it to the players well enough so they can execute and understand.

Then long.

That night I also had to coach a team, right?

Eight.

Eight players that were really good college basketball players that are now trying to make to the NBA or G League.

So again, another opportunity to showcase map value and what I can do.

I did that process, end up getting the job, ended up going well for me.

So it was.

It was Definitely a anxious process for me because it was new and I was just so excited and I was just so ready for a new challenge and opportunity.

What was your initial role with the Legends right after you get the job and how has it changed to where you are now?

Oh yeah.

So my initial role was head video coordinator, player development coach, which I did the last two seasons.

Then this last season, this last past summer, I got a bump up to an assistant coach role.

So overall, like I was responsible for all video sending to front offices between Dallas and the Legends, organizing every all film with the assistant coach and head coach, scout reports, providing scout videos, typing out the rim reports with the assistants.

Obviously being on the court, working guys out, but also being a body, which is also very important at our level is being able to be a body on the court and play with the players.

Then obviously I had to travel live code games.

So that was my first initial role in the G League.

This year is more so a leadership role which is will be new for me because I now have to guide people and manage people and help them grow, but also continue to grow as a coach as well.

What does that leadership look like on a day to day basis?

When you say taking over more of a leadership role, explain to us what that looks like.

Yeah, so just like right, you have a coaching staff, right.

As a video coordinator or assistant coach that I'm still responsible for all the video, but now I'm teaching others how to organize, manage and operate the video as an NBA video coordinator.

Right.

So day to day is either early morning meetings, teaching players, teaching people how to start the cameras, how to code games, how we play calls, how we read coverages in video, how we organize like our scout schedule, three to five out.

But also knowing how to like helping them grow as coaches on the court as well.

I think the video part is very important.

I think if you can just look at yourself as an overall coach and not just put yourself in a box as a video coordinator, it helps your growth the most.

When you were in the video room, obviously we've had an opportunity to talk to several guys who have spent time as video coordinators, whether at the college level, the G league level, the NBA level.

And one of the things that they always say is that the amount of time that you're spending breaking down tape, both of your team, your opponents, that the level of learning from an X's and O standpoint that you get an opportunity to do just by virtue of being exposed to the amount of film that you have to watch and Break down and code and do all those things.

Just talk to me a little bit about how you feel like your time in the video room.

Improve your ability to see, recognize, understand the X's and O's part of the game compared to when you first step into that role.

Yeah, big time.

Right.

I go back to again, everything for me kind of goes back to ut, Tyler and Lewis Wilson, right.

He was the one that kind of introduced me to how to break down film.

Right.

So going back to that, my.

The process of film was every game we played, I had to watch the last 100, 150 offensive clips, last 150 defensive clips, right.

And provide him a report of what do I see as far as the X's and O's, where they're doing ATOs, what's the coverages, right.

And at that time I didn't understand that was preparing me for the NBA video room, right.

Because I didn't understand the difference between college and NBA basketball game at the time.

So I think during that time, my first year in the G League, it was strictly studying the NBA, right.

I had a great coach that I worked for that built urgency and gave me great projects to study and just watch the game as much as possible, right?

Because ultimately we all want to coach, right?

So for me the process was watch film.

But within watching film, also take 15 to 20 minutes out of your day to just work on your board game, right?

Which like I, we tell players all the time, work on your game.

Same thing for coaches, right?

Work on your game.

So, right.

So breaking down the film, watching games, pulling ATOs, X and those, but within that, just also drawing out what I would do in certain situations.

15 to 20 minutes every day, then get right back to it.

Then you can just rotate that, right?

So that was my kind of my process of learning the X's and no's and growing as a young video coordinator.

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Learn more@gc.com hoopheads that's gc.com hoopheads Would you say that your knowledge of offense or defense, which one did you know more about from an X's and O standpoint?

Do you feel like going into it and just tell me a little bit about the differences in learning G league offense, G league defense, which one was easier to figure out, to navigate?

Maybe neither one was.

Maybe there wasn't one versus the other, but just the difference in looking at offense and defense on tape.

Which one maybe do you prefer?

Just talk about the differences between looking at offense and defense.

Yeah, I think for early on it was the terminology defensively and offensively and that that's huge thing in the NBA, right.

Speaking the same language.

I wouldn't say either was.

Was easier.

Easier for me because both were pretty tough offensively.

The thing is like the personnel and style of playing the G league is super fast, right.

So it ranges from you can have anywhere between 100 to 115 possessions every single game.

Right.

So understanding teams, running habits, whether they're trying to do early offense and flow, also their sets and how they end, how they end possessions, whether it's a pick and roll, ISO, it's an angle pick and roll, a middle pick and roll and how do they space, right.

Or they're a flat team.

They three out, one in, I mean four out, one in, five out, right.

Then defensively, again same thing as offense.

Everything starts in transition, right.

So how they crash them, how you, how they're crashing, what's their crash rules, how they're spreading back defensive coverages, shell rotations, Are they a heavy, heavy, heavy nail team or they're a heavy low man team, Right.

Do they switch ball screens at the level?

So all of those things were pretty difficult for me starting out early on.

But again, repetitions of watching family, watching games kind of helped me a ton to speed up that process.

What's the interaction like between you as a video coordinator and the assistant coaches and head coaches when you're in that role.

And then now obviously you're going to sort of experience that on the flip side now when you're dealing with somebody else in the video room.

But just what's that communication like between the video room and.

And the coaching staff?

Yeah, it's huge.

Similar best of best ability is availability.

Right.

So the thought is as long as assistant coaches and head coaches are there, I'm there.

Phone is always open.

You make, you try to make their job as easy as possible.

Right.

If there's cutting some clips for the scout, if that's providing extra Ideas to the offensive coach.

Hey, I saw this Euroleague team do a 77 this way.

Hey, maybe this could be good for our shooter.

Coming off, going to his right, his right hand, right.

That's providing film for our head coach.

Right?

Always been open for our head coach.

Always asking what he's, what he needs and almost kind of predicting the next thing he's going to ask for.

Kind of working ahead as a video coordinator.

Right.

You start thinking like a head coach.

Right.

And that's also something Lewis Wilson taught me when I was a young special assistant for him.

It's like, think like a head coach.

Right?

If you know we're prepared for a game that they're playing, they're going to blitz a lot of ball screens.

Right?

Okay, perfect.

Let's go to the college team that was the best versus blitz.

Hey, hey, coach.

Here we go.

There's 15 clips of let's go Gonzaga killing bliss covers last night.

Here you go.

Right.

So just been creating value, always being available and just always been open, being an open ear.

I would think that that communication is critical, as you said, to be able to think like a head coach and try to anticipate what that coach is going to need and be able to provide that as quickly as possible and keep those lines of communication open so that you can make sure that everybody's on the same page as you prepare for your next opponent or you're helping your own team to be able to improve what they do.

The role that you have now as an assistant and being able to get out on the floor a little bit more, what's your favorite part of kind of taking on that role compared to what you were doing before?

Oh, that's a great, great question.

More so this responsibility, just taking ownership of your work, that's the biggest thing in like the ownership of now you in a bigger role again to lead people and help people grow again.

And that's, that's ultimately what it, what matters most to me.

I had the past two summers, not to get off track, but the past two summers I went to Canada, Winnipeg, Sea Bears in the cbl.

Not an opportunity to be an assistant coach there as well the last two summers.

Right.

So again, different because the season is shorter.

It's two, two and a half, roughly three months seasons.

So it kind of prepared me for the moment that I'm in now.

But so I think, again, I think it just goes back to me now having a great opportunity to help people and lead them and help them become better coaches.

Day to day challenges of Being in the G League in that you have the players that you're working with, right?

Their ultimate goal is to be able to get to the NBA.

And so by nature of that goal, there tends to be, or at least in my mind, those players, right?

That's an individual goal.

We know how important basketball is a team sport when it's played at its best and when guys share the ball and there's camaraderie and all those things, right?

And yet each individual player on your team has the individual goal of improving, of attracting the attention of the NBA club to be able to get a call up or get an opportunity with a different NBA team.

And so how do you guys as a coaching staff, how do you build the type of culture, camaraderie within your team so that you can play team basketball and yet also know that and have your players know that you guys are also helping them to develop to reach their ultimate goal?

How do you balance out those two sort of.

They're not competing goals, but sometimes they can be at odds, for lack of a better way of saying it.

Absolutely.

I think again, communication, right?

Setting the standard early, right?

And that when I say set the standard early is obviously meeting, right?

This is, this is what we need from you, right?

And this is also what the big club needs from you.

So identifying the standard and setting the standard for the players early on, but also communication individually, having those one on one conversations, right?

And letting players know, like this is where you've been, this is where you are and this is where you need to be to get to where you want to go, right?

So we're all on the same page.

And listen, long season, right?

Every moment isn't going to be perfect, right?

But as long as we communicate, continue to push our vision, also continue to push the vision for yourself, hold yourself to a higher standard, right?

The G League is a tough league due to the season long season, obviously and smaller staffs.

But I think if all.

Everybody's on the same page, right?

Constantly giving players the reminder, if you do these things right, you're fitting a role.

Now just buy into it.

Humility, just be humble enough to accept your role.

Don't lose your confidence, right?

But if you want to play, you have to do these two or three things.

And that ultimately within development as you continue to develop people in their game, the winner, the product, the byproduct is winning, right?

And everybody loves winners.

And that brings even more attention to your team at any level.

Not only the G League, right?

Same thing for us, right?

Byproduct of buying into the team, but also having your own goals of playing the right way, getting to where you want to go to the NBA also combine those things and everybody's on the same page, at least to win it, which equals most times, sometimes more NBA eyes on you, which is going to help you ultimately get to your NBA dream.

I mean, that makes sense when you start talking about.

Right.

Obviously, winning attracts attention.

And when guys buy into their roles on a team, that allows the team to function more efficiently, which should eventually lead to more wins.

I want to ask you a question that.

It's one that talked with other guys that coach at various levels in the professional basketball.

And it's.

It's a concept that I always find to be sort of fascinating.

And let me kind of lay it out for you, and then I'll get your take on it.

So when players are young and they're at the lower levels of basketball, we try to teach our players to be well rounded.

We wanted to be good kind of at everything, right?

We teach a kid to handle the ball.

We teach a kid to rebound.

We want the kid to be able to play defense.

We don't want to lock them into one position.

We want them to be good at everything, right?

And then every step of the way, as you go up the basketball ladder, your role becomes more and more defined.

Like, there are guys in high school who get a chance, Their coach kind of gives them the ball and says, hey, go do your thing.

And they're the best player on the team, they're the star, and they get to do that.

And then those players move on to college basketball.

And there's not that many college basketball players who the coach just hands in the ball and says, okay, go ahead and do what you want.

And then obviously, you get to the pro level and what.

There's 15 guys, 20 guys in the NBA that maybe have that freedom to just kind of do what they want with the ball in their hands and everybody else.

And you said it in your previous answer.

There's two or three things that you have to do really well in order to be able to maintain or keep your job or to be able to get a job in the NBA.

And to me, it always feels counterintuitive.

And I remember when Mike Procopio, who was with the Mavericks at one time as their player development, he was one of Kobe's player development guys, that he's the one who first said this to me.

He's like, you know, you get to this level and like, we don't need you to be able to do everything.

Like you have to be able to do your role.

If you can shoot 45% on wide open corner threes and play good defense, guess what, man, you're going to make a lot of money in the NBA.

You don't need to have to do all these other things.

So how do you have, what are those conversations sound like when you're trying to.

I don't know if convince is the right word, but when you're talking to a player about like, hey, this is the archetype of player that you are and if you're going to get an opportunity of the NBA, it's going to be because you need to do these two or three things well.

And I just wonder because obviously all the players that are playing at your level are unbelievable players, right?

I mean, they're super talented, they've been the best player probably at every level they've ever been at.

And now suddenly you're asking them to.

I don't know if it's take a step back, but just decided to sort of zero in on what are the most important things that they can do.

So what are those conversations like for you and your staff if you've had a chance to sit down on any conversations that kind of follow along those lines?

Yeah.

So I would say conversations are especially with players, right?

What can you do to get on the floor?

Right.

Identify.

What do we need from you to get on the floor?

We're not going to take away the things you want to do, right?

But what can you do to get on the floor right now?

What is your team asking you to do?

What are your coaches asking you to do?

Right?

You do those two or three things consistently.

That builds trust.

And ultimately with all coaches, we play the players we trust.

That's on every level.

If we trust you enough, we don't have any problem putting you in the game.

Then once you get in the game, you get those minutes and it builds up over time then, then you can start showcasing even more.

But right now, like just get on the floor.

We have to get on the floor, right?

Get on the floor.

You play 30 minutes now, you get more opportunity to showcase what you truly can do.

And again, you continue to do that over time.

Consistency is the biggest thing, especially with younger guys.

Just be consistent every single day.

Carry the water, chop wood.

Every single day.

Every single day.

Small things I don't think I need to do is get on the floor, right?

Once I get on the floor now I can start showcasing my Ability to shoot, drive, play, make or whatever, but you still have to do it within the confinement of our team system.

And that's how most times the conversations go, right?

It's an honest conversation of this is what the team needs.

Do you want to play?

Yes or no?

Yes.

Okay, perfect.

Right now.

That's all we need from you right now.

If you, once you get your 20, 30 minute stretch and you showcase that you have the ability to do more skills, then perfect.

You, you gained that trust because now you plan, but now trust even grows more into, in you because now you showcase us more.

It makes sense.

I mean, as you said, the first thing you have to do, and I think any basketball player can relate to this, is right, you first, you first need an opportunity.

And you need an opportunity to be able to get on the floor.

And once you're on the floor, then now, hey, can I do the things that my coaching staff has asked me?

Can they trust me to do those things?

And now you can take it to that next step and maybe be able to expand your role, expand your game a little bit.

But as you said, the first thing is you got to get on the floor.

I just always think it's really interesting when you start talking about again, guys who have been the player with the ball in their hands, the one, they've been the star, they've been able to do kind of all these different things and now suddenly they get to the pro level and they're being asked to scale back.

For lack of a better way of saying it, to, hey, make sure you do these, these things.

And if you do these things, that's what's going to get you on the floor and give you a chance to win and then you can expand your role from there.

I just always think that that's a sort of a fascinating back and forth between what seems like, hey, once you get to that pro level, everybody's kind of doing everything and you realize, yeah, no, that's not the way it is.

Because there aren't, there just aren't very many guys at that level that get to just take the ball and hey, go do what you want.

There are very few.

They're very few.

Yeah, they're very few and far between.

No, I mean, absolutely, I agree.

And I think just also taking a step back and being honest with yourself and your development, are you doing every single thing you need to do to get minutes?

Are you, are you spending extra time on your film?

Are you eating right?

Are you going to the gym late night to get extra Shots to put in the work for your moment, right?

So especially for young guys, right?

It's easy to get discouraged.

Coaches taking my confidence coach isn't letting me play my game, right?

But take a step back and take ownership.

Like on your development, right?

Am I doing every single day?

Am I doing what I need to do to play and get better, right?

If I'm not shooting the ball well, maybe, okay, I'm not shooting the ball well.

I need to change my shooting routine.

I need to come back at night and shoot even more, right?

And that could be a quick and easy fix.

Is you just taking that accountability?

And sometimes for young players especially, they need failure, right?

They need that failure to look in the mirror and be like, okay, this is new, right?

So now we can start building those routines and overcome and just continue to get better.

As a basketball player.

What sets apart in the time that you've been with the Legends, what sets apart the best guys that have come through and played for you and your coaching staff in terms of not their basketball skill, but their intangibles, the things that they do off the floor, their preparation?

What are the things that stand out about the guys who have been the best players that have passed through and that you've had an opportunity to coach this to this point with the Legends.

I think number one right away is character, right?

In character, just who you are as a person.

Like, who are you as a person, right?

Rather, it's if you walk in a room, super simple, smile, even if you're having a bad day, shake hands, speak.

Just simple things, right?

Showing up on time, showing up early, having a routine, right?

Especially young guys sometimes, like we say, have a routine.

But most times, like young guys, need guidance, right?

Helping them build out a routine to help them grow as a player, right?

Then, like.

Like I said, routine.

The last thing is consistency with everything they do, right?

It's purpose.

Everything is done with purpose.

Everything is done with consistency.

It's okay.

I want to get here, right?

This is.

These are things I have to do every single day to get here.

If it doesn't work out, I can live with the result because I've done every single thing to get to that moment.

It just didn't work out.

Now, the thing is about the G League is that you get it.

Like you get a call up, right?

It didn't go well.

Okay, perfect.

I got my opportunity to get into the room.

I get my feedback from the team that let me go.

Now I have to come back and do the same thing over and over again, again.

Consistency and endurance and adaptability and no, I think those things are like the biggest things that stand out for me with the players that we've coached that have been the best for us.

Let's throw that question back at you as a coach.

What do you have to do to be at your best?

What are some things from an intangible standpoint?

Obviously there's the X's and O's and you got to know your stuff and you got to be prepared and all that.

But what are some things that you do as part of your routine to help you be at your best as a coach?

No, absolutely.

I gotta get in the way room every morning, have to do something physical every morning.

Rather walking, taking a walk early in the morning or I have to lift early in the morning.

Right.

So I'm a morning person.

Get up in the morning, read or listen to a podcast.

Something outside of basketball that's not with basketball, anything to do with basketball.

Something with mental performance, something with teaching, something about how players learn or how students learn in the classroom.

Right.

And then like spending time with, because I have a daughter, spending time with my daughter, being away from the game helps me kind of settle back in.

It's like, okay, everything is not as bad as it may seem, right?

So just staying grounded and spending time with family and people who care, care about me.

So those are like the things that help me be my best.

Obviously we have, we have a great staff here which with the legends that is family oriented and just being around the people that show love and speak life and full of energy.

So those are like the things I do every single day is workout, read, spending time with my daughter, just falling off, being present in the moment.

Then that allows me to be refreshed and being able to invest in others.

Yeah.

It's so important, right, to be able to have that routine, that ability to step away.

We all know that coaching is all consuming, right?

I mean there's.

There's very few moments in the day where you can just put it aside and not be thinking about what it is that you're trying to do day to day for your team, for your players.

And it's just coaching is one of those jobs that you just, it just doesn't go away.

So you have to have some of those things like you just described to be able to have a routine.

And I think it's always interesting to hear what different guys do to be able to.

I don't know if relax is the right word, but just as you said to be able to step away and get your mind right so you can come back with the.

With the proper framework of mind, to be able to give your best to your players, your team, your coaching staff and all that part of it.

I think it's really, really critically important.

Tell me a little bit about.

Go ahead.

No, absolutely.

I think especially early on in my coaching career, I didn't understand that.

Right.

I was the young kid.

Oh, yeah, sure.

Like, I'm never gonna get tired.

Like, I'm fine.

Like, like, work, work, work, work, work.

Like, I'm fine.

But no, like, as I've gotten older, those things are so important.

Just being able to just close the laptop sometime and just sit back and watch something that has nothing to do with basketball.

It's always refreshing and always good for me.

It's hard to do, though, man.

It's.

It's really hard to do.

When you have something that you're passionate about, it's difficult to put it down.

It's difficult to just say, hey, I gotta step away.

And sometimes I read a great thing today that I thought was super interesting, and it's not something that is new, but it just made me think.

And I saw it on Twitter and I don't even remember exactly the context of it, but it was something.

The effect of that.

Coaches need to remember that the gains that you make don't come from the training.

They come from the recovery time between the trainings.

And the whole concept was you have to be able to give your body time to be able to sort of solidify the gains that you make when you're training.

And I think that goes to this exact point that we're talking about, right.

If you're going 24 7, that there's never a time for your mind to be able to slow down and sort of process the growth that you made or the progress that you were going to make from your last coaching session or your last film or whatever it is.

You've got to be able to take some time to be able to take that deep breath, step away, as you said, and then that's when, hey, now you're kind of just bringing all that knowledge, everything together, and then the next time you step back out, now you're fresh and you can bring it to the best of your ability.

I just think that that's something that is super underrated.

I know it's underrated in life, and I've heard plenty of stories about professional sports and obviously how difficult it is.

And I.

I think you would probably attest to that same thing.

But that ability to step away, even if it's just like you said, get in the weight room for 30 minutes or taking a 15 minute walk and do wonders for your outlook as a coach, but more importantly, just as a human being, right?

No, absolutely.

No, absolutely.

I think it's very important because I'm ultimately like I've.

In my past I've dealt with mental health, just anxiety issues or whatever it may be.

And at the time, like I didn't know what it was, I didn't know what to do.

I didn't know the proper steps to take as a young coach.

But now as I've been around more people, talked to more people and you start to hear and learn more about reading and obviously being mentored by others, you start seeing the real value in that.

And I mean, I think it's one of the most important things for coaches and players to just reset at times.

I couldn't agree more.

I mean, I think it's really a huge part of making sure that you can be at your best when you are where you're at.

You got to work as hard as you can, but you also have to be able to take a step back and, and get that moment to be able to relax and refocus and refresh and then come back so you can be at your best.

Tell me a little bit about the relationship that you guys have with the parent NBA team and how much communication is there between G League and NBA?

How much do you talk to their coaching staff?

How much do they talk to you?

Is there much communication at all?

Just tell me about that relationship between the two coaching staffs, the two organizations.

Oh yeah, it's been phenomenal with the Mavs and Legends, right?

We spend, we have the opportunity to spend the playoffs with them.

Going through playoff preparation.

Being a part of the coaching staff was phenomenal.

First time going through a finals run, amazing feeling, right?

Obviously now we have the two ways which you have three two ways and you have like E10s.

They have three, three E10s.

Then obviously you have the rookies, right?

So the G League coaches are around because ultimately throughout the year you're going to be coaching those guys because they're going to be getting sent to the G League, right?

So you're there, an extension of the Dallas Mavericks coaching staff and you building those relationships with the players every single day ultimately because you want to start to know them before you have to demand things from them throughout the year.

Then throughout the pre draft process, we spent time with them running the pre draft workouts.

Then the last two years, we've had the blessing, an opportunity to be a part of the training camp.

The entire training camp.

Up until our season starts, we are part of the Dallas Mavericks coaching staff.

Then throughout the year, once our season start, we'll go down to games.

If we're off, we'll practice or we'll go to the practice.

Then like two or three times a month, our G League team actually practices in the NBA facility.

So the front office eyes their coaching staff, eyes are on our players, but also on us as coaches because they're evaluating everyone, right.

And see how everyone's developing and growing.

Then with the.

As far as with the coaching staff, we have the direct communication, right?

We talk every week or every day based off the things we need from each other.

But they're open, open line for us to grow, ask questions, that we ask them questions, they ask us questions.

So ultimately, like we, we're a big extension of their coaching staff here in Frisco.

Who's been the coach?

Whether it's one of the coaches with the Legends or somebody with the Mavs organization that you feel like has been your closest confidant or somebody who's really looked out for you or kind of showed you the way, is there anybody that fits that description?

Oh, it's a, it's a couple people.

I had coach Jordan Sears.

He's also a young guy as well.

He's 28.

Right.

Last year was.

He was, I believe he was the youngest G League head coach at 27.

And Jordan Sears was the head video coordinator in Dallas at the time when I first got hired with the Legends.

So we had a prior relationship and he, he, he invested so much time into me and helping me become a video coordinator when I first started.

Then I would say Max Hooper, which he played at Oakland University as one of the, one of the greatest shooters in Oakland history.

Then also Riley Cream, which he's in a video room, all video guys.

So those are the guys, like I'm closest with those three off the top.

Then obviously, Jared Dully.

Jared Dully has been phenomenal for me, just answering any text messages and questions I have.

But also, again, the person dynamic, just being a, being a normal human being and just building their relationship through laughs over food, sitting in video room, spending time with us.

So I think those four off the top of my head are like the biggest impact people that I've had in my life as I've been with the Legends.

I asked you earlier about when you first started on your coaching journey, sort of what was the plan and whether you had kind of put together a road map of kind of where you wanted to see your career go.

And at that time you kind of said, yeah, no, at that point I didn't really know where I was going.

But now you're obviously a lot farther along in your career.

What's the pathway again, if you could draw it up ideally, what's the pathway that you see yourself continuing to go down here as your career continues to develop?

Obviously, you're doing the best job in the moment where you're at, and that's how you're going to get an opportunity to advance.

But just what are your career goals?

What do you see in the future, moving forward?

Yeah, I believe at some level, whether it's NBA, college, high school, ultimately I want to become a head coach.

Right?

Just continue to grow, continue to learn.

But I think that's just like another step I'm gonna keep growing to.

As far as like leadership, right.

That was something that was kind of like natural for me because I was a natural, like point guard leader, used my voice a lot.

So I think ultimately at some point throughout my career, like, my overall goal is to become a head coach.

One day I would love to be a head coach.

League people rather than NBA, college, high school.

I don't really know where it take me, but ultimately being a head coach is my ultimate goal with my coaching journey.

Okay, so let me ask you this.

This is a question that I ask to a lot of people who have been assistant coaches and are either looking for their first head coaching job at some point in the future, or getting head coaches to kind of think back to when they were an assistant.

As you are preparing for that eventual opportunity, are you collecting?

And again, it used to be the three ring binder, right.

But that's obviously long since gone now.

No, it's a Google.

It's a Google.

It's a.

It's still so.

Or it's a Google Drive or it's.

Whatever it may be.

Maybe you're still old school in the three ring binder, but tell me a little bit about just how you are sort of curating the things that you want to collect that eventually may become part of who you are as a head coach.

How are you collecting?

Whether it's video, whether it's leadership things, whether it's just you're grabbing something that you like and saying, hey, I don't want to forget about this, or maybe you're just your own notes of Hey, I like that we're.

I like this.

I don't like that.

How are you collecting that material to kind of continue to build your portfolio that you're going to kind of look through when it becomes time for you to be able to run your own program at whatever level that ends up being.

Absolutely, Mike, Just like you said, the three ring binder in pen and pad.

All right, there you go.

Good work, man.

I love it.

Again, like Lewis Woodson, like, that's what I learned was the pen and pad.

Old yellow pad, legal pad, white paper, yellow paper in the binder.

So any ideas that I have, I have them in the bot, either in a binder or in vanilla folders.

Whether it's drills, nose that I pick up from podcasts, stuff I pick up off Twitter, even I have to bookmark it and send it to my computer to print off, to put in my binder.

Or is it just like simply keeping things in my computer on my notes?

So I kind of have everything organized between, whether it's player development, team defense, defense breakdowns, team offense, offensive breakdowns.

Everything is kind of organizing its own section, but everything is pretty much pen and pad and vanilla folders and binders still for me.

Old school, man.

I love it.

That's good stuff.

It's tough to get away from.

Yep.

All right, so if you had one piece of advice to give to a young coach out there who wants to get an opportunity in the G League, what would that piece of advice be for somebody who is.

Maybe they're a high school coach, maybe they're currently a college player, Maybe they're a college coach who wants to make the leap to the professional ranks.

What advice would you give them?

Don't undervalue your opportunities.

Right?

Where you are right now is where you want, where you need to be, right?

Continue to just whether it's high school, middle school, prepare like you're in the NBA already, right?

Prepare like where your feet are already, like where you trying to go, right?

Like, I'm present in my moment, but my preparation is at an NBA level.

Even if you don't have the resource to see that, reach out to people and ask questions.

I think secondly is constantly creating value.

Always find ways to create value for people, right?

We talk about relationships and networking, right?

You build a relationship with someone, but now you have to bring something to the relationship, right?

Whether it's sending edits to coaches that, you know, reaching out to people after they win the championship, right.

The thing about that is everybody send texts, the first two or Three days after something happens, right?

Accomplishment happens, everybody's blowing up that person.

But send that text sometimes like a week later when everything slows down.

And now it's, hey, coach, great, great season.

I loved how you all killed so and so with the pick a side.

Pick and roll, right?

I'm looking forward to meeting you.

I'm being your city.

Can't wait to catch practice next year.

So something as simple as that.

Then also just continue to nurture relationships, right?

Water plants every single day.

Just be authentic in your approach.

Because people, I don't want, I don't want to say, like, use.

You don't want to use people at all.

Like, like I just said, bring some relationship, then that's what I know because that's what worked for me, was just being available for other people and just helping them.

Maybe I didn't get a job, maybe they didn't give me a job, right?

But now, like I'm in the back of their mind and that's just like the small thing that I could think of.

The three or four small things I could think of.

Yeah, that's great advice.

I love that when you start talking about building relationships and building relationships in a genuine way, that it's not just about, hey, man, I'm building a relationship because maybe one day you can get me a job.

It's building a relationship of, hey, what can I do to help you?

Right?

I think when you come at that from a genuine perspective, I think that's when you really end up with a friendship and a true person that you can count on and trust and they can trust and count on you.

And then that's when opportunities come, right?

Because somebody hears about this and somebody hears about that, before you know it, there's an opening.

And then somebody says, well, I know that guy and he did right by me before.

And that's, that's really how the business works.

And I think that's a, that's a really good piece of advice.

I want to ask you one final two part question here, Tevin, before we wrap up.

So the first part of the question is, when you think ahead for the next year or two, what do you see as being your biggest challenge?

And then the second part of the question is, when you think about what you get to do every single day, what brings you the most joy?

So your biggest challenge and then your biggest joy.

Oh, that's a great question.

I think for me, the biggest challenge that I probably see going forward is not being in the mindset of always looking for what's next?

Because like, especially as a young coach, right, you get the assistant coach experience at the G league level, but then you start getting the mindset of not being grateful for what you have because Nel was like, oh yeah, I did this already.

Now let's.

I need to hurry up and get to the NBA, right?

So I think the challenge is literally staying present, keeping that same mindset and curiosity as you had when you was a six year old kid just starting playing basketball.

You curious, right?

You gotta try to find that curiosity over the next few years.

And I think that would probably be the biggest thing is staying curious, right?

Just keep reaching out to people, keep learning and keep growing as a coach.

Don't try not to get stagnant then.

Joy, I live by a simple quote of be a light, right?

Be a light in people's lives.

Be a light in.

When you, when you in people's presence.

That's my.

I love being around people.

I love smiling and spending time with people I love.

So I think that's like the biggest blessing and joy that brings over the next few years.

It's just like the people you get to meet, you get to meet so many unique people.

Even through Twitter, right?

I've met so many people through Twitter.

Even like even with you, Mike.

Like just simple Twitter.

Exactly.

Right now it's crazy.

I think the relationships you build in this business through just a round ball is a joy you, I don't think you can get anywhere else outside of sports.

It's like so simple.

They can connect people from millions and thousand miles away.

Thousand miles away.

So I think over the year, over the next few years, that's the joy, is just the relationships you all build over the next few years.

It's really well said and I think it's very descriptive of kind of what this podcast has been.

I mean, I say this all the time, but we've built so many genuine friendships as a result of this thing that if you'd have told me when we started six years ago that that would have been possible, I would have told you you were crazy.

And so I think to cite the relationships that basketball can create, and it's just, it's amazing.

I mean, the game, I'll never be able to give back to the game anywhere near what it's given me, both in terms of just who I am as a person, that the people that I've been fortunate enough to be able to interact with through the game of basketball, I mean, it's just is.

I mean, it's unbelievable.

And I think it's very well said in terms of of what brings, what brings me joy from the game of basketball and you know, a similar thing for you.

Before we wrap up, I want to give you a chance to share how people can get in touch with you, connect with you, whether you want to share, email, social media, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I will jump back in and wrap things up.

Yeah.

So you can Twitter.

My Twitter handle handle is underscore Jawan J u W a n.

You can find me on Instagram_ Jawan Brown11 Jawan J U W A N Brown11 is my Instagram so you can I'm pretty big on social media.

I spend time on social media so I'm very, I'm very responsive.

So if anyone has any questions or want to talk hoops or if I have any questions for anybody, you can always reach out and always do my best to respond as quick as possible.

Oh awesome.

Tevin, can I thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to join us?

Really appreciate it.

And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.

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