Hamish last episode of 2025.

Pretty exciting, isn't it?

I feel like we're just sitting in my office where I'm

recording right now and we.

We are going through our plan for the year and where we had both, um, we

both read the book Traction and sort of were looking at a plan of what we

see these actual podcasts turning into.

Um, and from memory we landed on a media company essentially,

like we wanted to, broaden the education system in construction.

That's where we kind of got to.

what that catch up session did do was kind of reframe in my mind

particularly about, I guess, what our true intentions of the podcast was.

And it was about educating people,

I think we're doing that.

Through storytelling.

Um, and you know, the other thing too, that we sat down and um, uh, I guess

there some goals for was actually to get some sponsors for the podcast.

And I know,

my iPad right now.

and I know that, um, we did say to each other that if we were gonna get sponsors

on the podcast, they needed to be aligned.

Our values, but also with, I guess, the messaging that we

wanted to share on this podcast.

And

Don't name the sponsor.

We have a major sponsor coming on.

We're not allowed to tell you just yet.

yeah, we do have a major sponsor, which is very, very, very aligned with

what we do, and that's gonna be an exciting thing to tell everybody about.

However, there was another sponsor that came on MEGT, which.

I think in my mind I didn't really think of them initially.

I didn't really kind of put them in our, I guess, our target.

But I think off the back of some, a couple of episodes we did when they actually

reached out to us, I think there's a really great alignment with what we wanna

do here and with what it did trying to do.

So, been super grateful to have them on board and, you know, they've been, um,

they've been awesome to, to have on.

the more people that wanna join the sponsorship train or advertising

for ads, Hamish and I don't make money off this, um, it actually

costs us a fair bit of money to put this together to be really frank.

So the more people that want to jump on board.

the better content we can start to deliver and the more content we can

start to deliver, like both of us have a very clear path of heading down

the YouTube on videos of construction sites and the Australian market.

That's something we both really want to hit eventually, but that

again costs a huge amount of money.

So, um.

It's people like MEGT and our future major sponsor.

They're gonna allow us, at least now cover the podcast side of things and

allow investment into other sides of that education, storytelling perspective

of what we're trying to achieve here.

And we're not trying to solve the world.

We're not trying to fix everyone's problems.

We understand that people won't agree with the way we build or our outlook

and philosophy on construction.

From tradies to that have done it this way for 50 years, or

builders who it's too expensive or architects that's stuck in their way.

We're not gonna please everyone.

But if we can start to lift the standard of education in, in our industry in

Australia, um, and if we can really change one or two people, I think

that's the ultimate goal, isn't it?

Ham?

Like we, we have a pretty hefty download list.

We have a pretty hefty, uh, reoccurring, I'd say hardcore group of listeners.

That we have, that we've seen in the back end of our data that are

listening very quickly on a Monday morning when our podcast gets released.

So, uh, we know we've got something pretty cool here and the feedback

from everyone across the board that I receive, I know we've shared a

lot of our feedback to each other.

Ham, it's pretty cool.

Um, I know you've got some pretty cool stories of people reaching out to you

did actually wanna ask you, um, before we kind of got too far into

this, um, podcast, because we, we probably don't celebrate the wins

enough, so I'm gonna ask you to tell me your three biggest wins.

I want a personal win.

I want a mindful builder win, and I want a car and construction win.

And I know this is not something that we talked about that we were gonna ask,

but I would really love, uh, you to, to tell me what those three wins are.

Well personal, fuck you.

I reckon you've hacked my iPad.

'cause I have something very similar in here to throw at you.

Um, and you're reading my notes, uh, personal, uh, I had a little girl.

it's awesome.

I'm still learning to navigate the the dad slash working relationship perspective.

I just had a pretty hard conversation with my wife around that it's very

easy for me just to get up and leave at times in the morning.

And her having to look after no, like that is quite challenging.

Um, trying to be more present.

I do have a pretty clear intention of, almost trying to go down to four day

weeks to spend a whole day with her.

So, um, personal, that's a huge achievement.

So I'm super proud of what my and my wife have been able to achieve.

There more.

I'm just super proud of her, to be really honest with you.

Um, I've had a, I've got a whole new perspective on, on that side of things

that champion women, women in, but also the, the whole nursing system.

Just someone's out there that can make real change.

Pay those nurses more please.

the mindful builder, lemme get to that one last car.

And construction.

Well, this is sort of personal.

There's two things from car and construction to cop out, excuse or a cop

out Win for me is finishing my own house.

Living in a passive house, that's a huge win.

But I would say the bigger win that I've had is we had a lot of shit

go wrong in the middle of the year.

I had Dave, one of my main members, team members, carpenter,

go overseas for seven weeks.

I was on dealing with dad duties for the first time, had a baby.

Um, two of my team they moved on.

Um, so everything came at once.

So what we'd learned there is our systems weren't working and we knew it.

We uncovered a lot of issues within the business.

So I look at that as a huge win for us that, uh, we have some pretty

clear goals and processes we're now developing to move forward in that.

And that's what I'm so excited.

It's for the future, but also it's the first time I'm seeing light at

the end of the tunnel and taking the Hamish wide approach of the glass

is half full rather than half empty.

Sorry, did you just read my wins for my company as

no.

no.

Yeah, we're sharing notes here.

Um, mindful builder, like, I'm gonna just go back to basics.

We are growing month by month and on pretty high percentages,

10 to 15% month by month.

and that data is only going up and more engagement.

I know people just look at a social media account, engage.

How many followers and then equate to follow to listeners, but we

practically have more listeners and followers, which is interesting.

we're, we are really on that up.

Um, and I just think it's the fact that we've been able to stick this out and

see out, like, I think our first episode next year with Rachel, uh, from Natural

Building is our hundredth episode.

So

Oh,

win.

Huge win.

So, um, I would say, I wanna just go back to basics of the mindful blue.

We're still here and we're not going anywhere, and it's growing.

So how about yourself,

so personal.

Again, had I had a, a beautiful little girl, Juniper, you

know, much like yourself,

learning to be a dad of a young child again is, uh, is

an interesting, uh, thing.

I did take some time off throughout the year where I was kind of

working part-time for about six weeks and that was really amazing.

Um, my two boys are just so in love with their little, little sister.

yeah, uni's incredible.

She's just.

She's doing everything that she needs to do right now.

She's, um, smiling, growing, laughing, and I'm, I'm really excited about, uh,

I guess the future that she potentially has in the construction industry.

I'm not gonna try and pigeonhole her into doing a trade, but, you

know, knowing that, um, it's so well accepted now to have more women in

trade, that I think there's an amazing pathway, and particularly with ai.

Coming in as big disruptors.

I think these practical hands-on trades are gonna be really sought after.

So having a kid was my personal biggest win.

I'm gonna mash up the mindful builder with a little bit of SBA stuff as well, so.

I echo everything that you say about, um, our growth and our interaction

and the guests that we've got on and the feedback that we're getting.

But it was also pretty amazing to kind of tack on the beer and building

science thing that we're doing with all

Yeah, that's super cool.

Other, you know, what, you know, our other peers and other people who are

really passionate about building better.

So, you know, we certainly don't wanna be taking all the credit for that because

there's eight or nine different people that are involved in that, and they're

all equally, you know, uh, contributing.

And, um, it probably wouldn't be the same without all those people involved.

So we're really excited about that.

Um, and I guess the other thing that I'm super proud of is the,

uh, event that we did with Bowens.

A couple of weeks ago, in late November called Rethink.

There's a huge success and got some really great feedback.

And it's just, it's interesting kind of seeing like a different target market

that I'd normally see from, I guess our, my normal interactions with, um,

the mindful builder and beer and bs.

'cause we're really targeting.

Those who are kind of a bit curious about building better.

So that was where our kind of marketing stretched to with that.

So it was great to see more and more builders and bowens themselves

being boots and all in with the whole better building thing.

So that was awesome.

My business.

Was actually becoming a lot clearer with the direction for my

business and where I wanted to go.

And more specifically, I'm a lot more clearer of my role within the business.

So I've been working pretty hard over the past, I'd say 24 months

of really trying to define where it's best to put my energy and.

Ironically, coincidentally, it is doing things like the podcast.

It is doing things like beer and bs.

It is doing things like rethink because all of that is a great

reflection on sanctum homes as a business and our values, and I guess

what we're trying to deliver as a, as a company, as as a product.

But it's really kind of made me realize if we're kind of circling back to this

whole entrepreneurial operating system thing, that I am definitely a visionary.

I'm most definitely not an implementer or an integrator.

So it's just really understanding that and then going ahead and putting the

right people in the roles in my business.

So I'm actually really excited now with that clarity and, um,

you know, I'm, I'm hoping to build on that momentum next year.

So I had, I, that's what I was probably talking about with mine is I was at

that point when we had N Noah that I was like, something's not working here.

So I think you're probably a good 12 months ahead of me.

Um, and the big aha moment for me, oddly enough, was our Systemology

podcast with Dave Jennings.

With David.

Yeah.

what's kind of funny about that is when he said he started his own podcast, uh,

to get free advice, he would interview other people so he could sit there and.

Learn off them for free and pick their brain, but turn into a podcast.

And I feel that we just did that to him.

I've just finished the Systemology book.

My team have just, uh, Kayla's finished the Systems Champion and

now my other team are gonna be reading the Systems Champion book.

Every one of them will get that and understand that at some point.

But I, again, that's why I go back to the glass half empty, uh, glass half full,

like I finally see light at the tunnel.

the question is, what does 2026 look like?

Hey, um, what are goals for you?

What are you trends you are seeing?

Um, I've got a bunch of notes on what I think we're gonna see in 2026,

I'm forever the optimist.

but I think I also said this time last year that I thought.

Things are gonna get easier, and I think we're gonna get an influx in

consumer confidence and all that stuff.

I don't think that happened in 2026 and maybe a little bit, the needle shifted

a little bit, but I, but I, I'm not confident that, you know, the floodgates

are gonna open and then everyone's gonna be building and everyone's gonna be busy.

However, what I have realized, or what I do know is that

that almost doesn't matter.

Because.

You are in control of how you show up to that.

So it is up to you as the business owner or or trade or whoever to figure out a

way to tap into where those leads are coming from to tap into where that new

project is coming from and not sit on your ass and just wait for it to come.

So I actually get quite excited about that challenge.

So I am optimistic that we will remain busy and we've got a really full

pipeline for next year and into 2027.

I'm under no illusion that it's gonna be an easy ride and that

every project that we get to site is not gonna have its challenges.

However, in saying what I was saying before about having the right people

in the right roles, I think I've got an amazing team that can deliver on that.

So 2026 I think is still gonna have its challenges.

You know, I don't think we saw the interest rate drops that

we were expecting, and I think that that's also been paused.

I think inflation's still high.

going up.

I think they might go up.

To be honest, I'm not a financial

and they, and they, and they might, might go up, but my advice to people

is don't let that stall you on the energy and momentum that you've got

for your business, because that's what's gonna slow your business down.

or even to build, if you're a client listening, like interest rates

forever have gone up and down.

To see one interest rate go up or go down shouldn't change or influence

your decision to build, Yeah, you might be able to borrow more if the

rates will lower, but I understand that building comes down to how much

you can afford to get what you want.

But if you are, that's the major reason you're deciding

not to build or holding it off.

I can tell you what the cheapest time to build was yesterday.

Exactly, and it's now time to really challenge what you, your expectations

are for what you need as a home.

Let's face it, the size of the homes that we're building now are massive.

I just went and saw a kind of irrelevant, but I went and, um, bought a bike for

my son for Christmas off a guy and I, he happens to be a builder as well,

and I just walked through a renovation that he's doing inbo and these

clients, you know, in mon, but where every other fucking house is massive.

This is an old 60 style.

Low ceiling roof exposed rafters home, and they're just renovating it and it's

about 140 square meters and it feels big enough inside to have two or three

people, uh, two or three kids there.

So we need to rethink or recalibrate the size of the homes that we built

and what we actually put in there, because let's face it, unless you

can afford to spend $4 million on a 300 plus square meter home, you're

only gonna get 180 square meter home.

I'd, so this is what I see.

So I've got here a note that like, I don't know how this works.

I dunno what happened.

The biggest change I see that might happen, our industry, it might not

be next, it might be the year after.

I think building an architecture, if Uranian architecture firm or

building business, the way that we see it in today's market is not

what it's gonna be in a few years.

If we just look at the current model, it's not sustainable for people to build.

look at Sydney, what have they done?

The housing is that housing thing where you can buy a set of plans for $1.

The government have designed them and go purchase some architecturally

designed homes as five different homes.

They're $1.

You can take them to your builder.

You fast track for the planning permit system.

If we go back to post walk construction and homes, and back in the day when there

was big land packages, the government had designed homes that you could just

take from a brochure and go build.

I see that coming back in to help bridge the affordability cost,

something like that, which will disrupt the way that we design and build.

I personally think we are gonna see these government designed beautiful

homes that have to meet a certain sustainability credential that are not

gonna be overly too big, but they're gonna save a shit ton of money in

the design and town pounding planning process to fast track them to site.

The government have huge goals to reach these 1.2 million homes and

it's making think outside the square.

And I think this is a, a pro now.

It's gonna do a lot of architects outta work.

Um, and they're gonna need support because what architecture looks like.

Personally, I don't know.

I think that not everyone can go and afford a $1.5 million house.

And how do we cater for the people that have three, four, $500,000,

there's not much we can do with that amount of money in building anymore?

Fortunately.

architecture and architects and.

Designers will always have a place, but I just think that it's, um,

just like as builders, we need to adapt and change and pivot on how,

on the projects that we deliver.

I think that's gonna be the same for a design company.

Oh, and that's, and that's what I mean, and that's not saying that,

like, I personally think architects should be going down the same model.

Maybe have four or five houses that you can buy for a reduced rate.

There you go.

There's a tip.

Like they're all designed, here they are.

You can buy 'em off the plan.

Something along those, those, those lines.

Um, and that's something we've been working on in the background a little

bit with someone, but that, I think that the change that will come.

Along and what that looks like.

I think if you're a, uh, a kid studying architecture by the time that you are our

age, hey, I don't think that an architect looks like an architect now, personally.

I would also say that I don't think a builder's gonna look the same either.

No.

Oh, a hundred, a hundred percent I think.

Yeah.

And that's one of my second notes.

We'll get to that in a second.

But I think that, um, we are gonna see huge changes there.

And not saying that, uh, architects won't, don't have a place or,

that's not what I'm getting at here.

I'm just saying we need to think differently because what is happening

now isn't working and it's only so long it can't work for, um,

and someone will come up with something and everyone will follow.

That's generally how it works.

Uh, but that's why I say now I get to builders and.

Building won't be the same.

Like we're gonna see a lot of MMMC modern methods of construction are gonna

come in components to construct with.

Um, I don't see in five years us sitting there stick framing a bit a home on

a, on a new build, especially at all.

We just don't have the labor to do it anymore.

I don't disagree with you at all.

I think, I think prefabrication, cassette, modular homes are just gonna

exponentially increase in popularity.

And there's, but what I will say for that to have real change, the government

needs to have investment in that.

'cause it's not gonna change with private.

no, no.

It's we, we've removed manufacturing from Australia.

Now we wanna reintroduce it that that's a challenge.

Um, way above my knowledge and expertise, but I, I see that the, the way that we

look at trades on site and building, uh, if you're a young kid wanting to

get into building and be a builder, used to be such a profitable business

and such a, a, you had less budget to work with and you made more money.

I can tell you now we have three times the budget and we make less money.

So it's a high risk game.

your whole life earnings are on the line.

I think that getting through the next few years of being a builder are gonna

be difficult, but if you come out on the other side and you get your

systems and processes right, yeah.

You're gonna be around for a while.

But I'd, I'd hate to be a new kid getting their license, trying

to start a construction company.

there's a part of me that wants to challenge that.

I'm not gonna say that it's not challenging because let's

face it, some, some of us are born, were born to be builders.

You know, you were you, you where I were, and there's, there's people

coming up that are born to be builders.

But I think that the new builders coming through.

If they're curious and they're, uh, open to new ways of building, I

think they're the new generation of adopting new building methodologies.

You know, I think you and I are.

Potentially an outlier with, you know, a little cohort that we operate within.

But I think there's, there's this new wave of builders coming through who are

seeing the opportunities in modeling and fabrication and all those things.

I think if they come into.

The building industry thinking that it's like it was when their dad

was a builder 20 or 30 years ago, then those people won't survive.

It's the people coming in with fresh eyes, seeing the opportunities.

oh, a hundred percent.

It's just not you.

It's what I, what I kind of get at is, it's not as easy as getting your

li your license anymore and walking into two or three big projects, but

it, the, the starting off period is a lot harder than what we even had at.

And I speak to, say my old bosses and stuff, and they're

like, it, it was hard for us.

I think it's even harder again, for these people coming through.

But anyway, things that we've got going on the podcast next year we will be

traveling to New South Wales, Adelaide, Western Australia, and Queensland.

For some events.

We'll be doing some podcasting in each state.

Yeah.

With our major sponsor.

So if you are in those states and you want to come on the podcast or think of someone

in Western Australia or Queensland, Adelaide or New South Wales, uh, would

be in probably Sydney, to be honest.

Let us know and we can interview them.

We'll also, probably the night before we do the big filming, we're probably gonna

hold an event of some sort and be an open event where it won't cost any money.

You'll just come along.

Um, and we'll probably have a bit of a chat.

that's something that we've got going on.

Next year we are going to do an Ask us anything series.

So we we're after some tradies, uh, we're after some builders.

Architects, building designers if they want to come on the podcast

and ask us anything, we are gonna be doing that quite often.

So, uh, there's no limitations on what you can ask us.

If you think of the a, b, C series, um, you can't ask that.

That's the path we're going down.

So

Just wanna, I just wanna give Finn from Max a designer shout out.

'cause it, that kind of came off the back of an idea from him.

So, and, and also the success of Damien Smith coming on and, and

asking us a bunch of questions.

So

Yeah.

I think, I think we do need to have some kind of, uh, barriers or, or, sorry,

guardrails set up for the conversation.

but yeah, it'd be good to know the topic beforehand, but I

think, yeah, ask us anything.

We're not, I'm not saying that we're gonna know the answers to it, but I think

it'll just have a really cool dynamic.

Yeah.

And the other thing I really wanna do, and.

I think we're mature enough and people are mature enough to

understand where we're coming from.

This I, I love to do a home truth series where we can have honest

discussions about what we think of building surveys, interior designers,

architects, building designers, tradies builders, and practically

do a series on like honest feedback about like, for example, builders.

You're not, designers don't just go change shit.

Don't go change shit without asking it about it.

So, uh, that style of conversation, um, it's not to attack anyone.

It's not to call people out.

I'd say it's like the pet peeves that we would have with each part of that

industry or that sector of our industry.

Are we calling?

Are we calling that the Stay in Your Lane series?

Uh, I'm gonna open my mouth so much.

I think I'm mature enough to do it, aren't I?

maybe may.

You know what?

Maybe.

Maybe, maybe.

Um, but yeah.

Look, we just wanted to do a quick wrap up.

we wanted to say a big thank you to our first sponsor, MEGT.

You know, we're really excited to continue our work with them into next year.

and we do wish everybody a very safe Christmas and New Year's and hope

everybody has a very relaxing break.

I understand that the building industry is, can take its toll this time of

year and that everyone's gonna come back refreshed and you're actually

giving yourself some time off.

And, uh, I know.

I'm super excited to come back and continue rolling out the

podcast next year in 2026.

100%. I agree with everything and why we are on MEGT.

got a little segment, the mindful moment.

Um, so MEGT are shaping Australia's future workforce.

They've been doing it for over 40 years with 1.5 million strains,

uh, finding jobs out of this.

So, uh, they're the apprenticeship leading experts.

Both him and I have our apprentices signed up with them.

they're not the tafe, they're the training provider.

So every, every apprentice needs a training provider who will then work with

the TAFEs to then do their apprenticeship.

The mindful moment.

I've got one.

I know if you've got one, but we are going into a Christmas break.

Um, if you're an apprentice or even a carpenter or an employee, anyone

really listening to be honest, you get a good break at the moment.

So you might be sitting, listening to listening to this

over your Christmas break.

You might even be listening to it as we've come back from work

or even the middle of next year.

I'm not sure.

My advice is just to come back with an open attitude.

Don't.

Don't sit there over Christmas thinking about work.

It, it's hard at times.

Uh, don't dwell on work, come back with a positive attitude

and, and it's a fresh start.

It's the old saying, new year, new me.

Come back with a, a new approach to, to a positive work environment that you can

actively make change because you can, even as an apprentice, you can make change.

it's the younger generation that will force change in our industry.

We've seen that over many different industries that the younger generation

come and take over and for the better.

So there this industry is no different.

So come back, don't drag your feet.

Rock up early, get your shit done.

Be proactive.

That is the biggest advice I'd give to any apprentice out there right now.

What going into 2026?

I'm just gonna add to that and it, it potentially is gonna

sound a little bit contradictory.

Really lean into the break, really lean into the time off, really lean into a

stress-free environment, hopefully, but also use the time to throw a podcast on.

Do a little bit of research into something you might be interested

in, to learn something different to what you might be learning at work.

You know, and when I say learn, just throw a podcast somewhere.

You're out riding your bike, going for a walk or driving in the car

and come back with a handful of new different things that you want to try

and implement within your, uh, work.

Because that stuff 100% is noticed.

By the employee and the senior team on site.

So I'm not saying you need a work, work, work and study, study study, but just

use the time when you actually have the space in your brain to absorb it.

That would be my advice.

Rest up, but use the opportunity just to suck in a couple little bits of,

uh, information to roll out into 2026.

Totally agree.

Hamish had a great break.

Um, spent some quality time with the fam, um,

I'm gonna Batemans Bay again.

Bike riding, surfing, spending time with the family, you know, being in

one of my favorite places in the world.

Very excited.

I'll probably just have my Grand Designs episode on repeat on my tv.

I think

Oh, don't worry, we'll be doing that as well.

I'll be having that in the car

total, total joke.

Um, we, we, we will probably do an episode on that early next year when

I'm, I've, by this time it's come out.

I think the episode's definitely live.

So, um, we'll probably do some form of conversation around that and um,

have a chat about the backend stuff.

So, um, anyway, have a great Christmas mate.

Stay safe.

Thanks.