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Have you ever thought about what
would happen if you lost all

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devices, authenticated with your
password or your MFA system?

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You had a fire that took out
everything and you couldn't even

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grab your phone before you left.

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It was that bad.

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How do you get back in?

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That's what this episode is all about.

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W. Curtis Preston: hi, and welcome to
Backup Centrals Restore it All podcast.

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I'm your host w Curtis Preston, AKA a Mr.

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Backup, and have with me once again
my financial non-ad advisor Prasanna

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it

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Prasanna Malaiyandi: Ah, Curtis.

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Yes.

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I am not your financial advisor.

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I am not accredited by any
institution or any agency.

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W. Curtis Preston: right, But
sometimes we talk about things.

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That you answer questions and then
you tell me to check those answers.

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Um, we had, we had some conversations
about Roth IRAs and IRAs and things

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today, which, you know, um, it's,
it's incredibly, you know, as I.

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As I progress in years, um, and I
start to worry about when I'm gonna

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start withdrawing from these funds and
not, not be putting money into them.

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The thing is advisor, non-ad advisor
or not, it was from you that I learned

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the whole thing about Backdoor Roths.

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So I'm sure  when I have questions, I
will not be able to count on my non,

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my financial non-ad advisor.

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Prasanna,

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There you go.

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It's just bits and pieces of
information I've picked up over

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the past many, many years, and it's
just something I'm interested in.

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So,

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W. Curtis Preston: uh, so this is
gonna be, once again, kind of a unique

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podcast, a unique episode, uh, because
for the first time, We have, we're

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gonna record sort of the question and
then we'll talk about the, the answer.

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Um, because we had a listener who
reached out to us about, uh, you

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know, a particular, it's like, what
do I, how do I solve this problem?

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And I honestly, I said, you know what?

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I'm not even sure I have a good answer
for that, but let's bring you on.

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You know, get some, you know, get that
question out there and then we're gonna

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bring on someone else to do the answer.

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So, uh, our guest today describes
herself as an anthropologist by

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training, a programmer by application,
and a manager by necessity.

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She's a system and network admin
for her own company that her and her

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husband have owned for many years.

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She reached out to us with this question
and I think it will make a great episode.

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So welcome to the podcast, Sue Peterson.

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Sue Peterson: Good afternoon, gentlemen.

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Prasanna Malaiyandi: Happy to have you on.

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Yeah,

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W. Curtis Preston: is it?

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Well speak for yourself, Sue.

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Not, not here.

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Where, where are you?

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Uh, are you, you said you're in Portland.

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Sue Peterson: Eugene.

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Eugene.

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W. Curtis Preston: nice.

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Sue Peterson: we, we had, we had
over an inch of snow, um, two days

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ago.

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Oh,

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Sue Peterson: Wet snow.

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W. Curtis Preston: Oh yeah.

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That I,

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That does not

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W. Curtis Preston: lived in
places where you get that.

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Um, how, how are the roads at this point?

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Sue Peterson: Totally clear.

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It melted

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immediately.

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Oh,

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W. Curtis Preston: Oh, really?

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Okay.

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So why don't you describe
to us this problem that you,

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that you're worried about,

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Sue Peterson: Well.

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I'm kind of the IT department
for the company My husband and

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I own have owned since 40 years.

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Um, he inherited his father's
business, which started in 47.

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So it's family business.

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I've got.

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On an average day around 30 ish
employees, at the moment we're

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running 15 trucks, I think,

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although he keeps buying trucks,
so I may have miscounted.

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W. Curtis Preston: And what and
what type of business is this?

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Sue Peterson: it's contracting business,
plumbing, business, plumbing repair,

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W. Curtis Preston: Mm-hmm.

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Sue Peterson: and I'm running the
computers and I wrote the database

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and we're running in-house software
almost totally, um, for our, for our

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business and.

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Customers and everything.

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Customer who owes me money sort of stuff.

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And backups are important when
everything you do depends on that data.

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So I've been fanatic
about backups since 19.

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I got my first computer,

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Personal computer in 1985,

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W. Curtis Preston: Is it for the record?

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That's the year I

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graduated from high school just saying.

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Sue Peterson: I figured I was
a little bit older than you.

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I was, I was trying to count that.

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I still do the, I still do the ponytail.

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Um, so I started doing backups
then, um, at the moment I'm running

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a mix of Ubuntu and Mac machines.

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The servers are on Ubuntu.

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I run MySQL.

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So every night, let's see, I'm
doing, um, Apple time machine

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on the workstation that are.

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Still apples.

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I'm doing Authy for authorization.

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As we talked, I am dumping
everything to rsync every night.

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I do crash plan on some workstations.

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I do Dropbox and one password every
night, um, every couple hours.

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And then nightly, I do a MySQL dump.

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It's encrypted and up and zipped
and uploaded to, um, Dropbox.

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And then every night that gets
downloaded to my server at, to my

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second server at home Decrypted.

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And it's kind of a.

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Yeah, test server.

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And that gets sent to rsync every night.

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And I was, a couple years ago, we had
some issues with fires in the area and of

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course we're an earthquake zone and I'm
paranoid, so I'm sitting there and saying,

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How do I get back into this system?

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Assuming I have five, you know,
five minutes to get out of

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the house and down the road.

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W. Curtis Preston: Right,

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Sue Peterson: I, I, I can't grab

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anything.

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I'm running

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for life.

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And, and this include, and this
also includes like your phones,

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right?

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Everything right.

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It's not just like those

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servers.

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Gotcha.

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Sue Peterson: Yeah.

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I mean, servers, I can rebuild.

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But what, what do I need
with this ecosystem?

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What do I need to have
to get back into it?

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And one password, a few years ago went
to something where your phone number,

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you need more than your phone number.

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Hmm.

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Sue Peterson: need.

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You need that special
key that they give you.

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Okay, that key's like this long.

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I don't memorize it.

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Yes, I have it printed out in my safe.

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W. Curtis Preston: Mm-hmm.

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Sue Peterson: case
analysis, my safe's gone.

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Yep.

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W. Curtis Preston: Right.

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Sue Peterson: Now, now, now
the odds of this happening are

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minuscule, but you know what?

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Yeah, no, this is, this is
a great question because I

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know Sue, we're

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talking about your specific environment,
but honestly, this could apply to anyone.

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Like I was just thinking, like when I
first heard about this question, right?

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I was like, so what happens
if my house burns down?

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I've lost my laptop, I've lost my phone.

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How do I even get into like as a user
into like my Apple device, right?

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And into my.

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Apple account and then into
my mail system, like where

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do I even start to rebuild?

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Because sure, I have offsite
copies, but if I can't get access

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to it because I don't have a
starting device, what do I do?

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Sue Peterson: yeah.

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W. Curtis Preston: Yeah.

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I was thinking actually, This would
be, um, you know, who, you know,

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who, uh, came to mind Prasanna,
um, what's, what's her name?

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The lady, the, the disaster preparedness

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Oh

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Sue Peterson: Oh yeah.

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yes.

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W. Curtis Preston: Uh, what was her name?

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Um, or her name's escaping.

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Uh, she, she, she came on and she's,
she talks about helping people get

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ready for all kinds of things like
these, that she doesn't focus just

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on it, but she focuses on, I think,
these things that we talk about, which

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is h how do you, how do you put back,
uh, how do you put back everything?

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The more complicated.

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The more complicated.

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Uh, so you're, I, so first
off, I'll, I'll just say this.

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I think it, it sounds like you're
doing all the right things.

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I mean, we might change different
pieces of it, um, you know, like,

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would I do it slightly differently?

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Maybe?

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But I like that you're, it sounds
like you've got, uh, it sounds like

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there's a cloud copy of everything.

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Right.

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Um, and it also sounds like
you've got a local copy.

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On this server.

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Okay.

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Sue Peterson: Yeah.

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Yes.

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W. Curtis Preston: Yeah.

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An offsite an offsite copy, right.

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But it, it, it's offsite from, from where
the data is, but it's still local to you.

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Um, and, and then you also have a cloud
copy, cuz a cloud copy could easily

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be your, the doomsday copy when this.

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Sue Peterson: right.

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W. Curtis Preston: All goes to hell.

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Uh, the question will then
be, and and also I like that

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you're using a password manager.

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We talk a lot about
password managers here.

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Sue Peterson: I'm paranoid.

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W. Curtis Preston: yeah, well, as you
should be, this is a paranoid world.

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Um, and then also you've mentioned that
you use Authy for, uh, uh, mfa, right?

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Sue Peterson: Yeah.

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Not for everything.

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Not for everything.

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Some stuff won't use it,

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but

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yeah.

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yeah.

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and and I think we should talk,
Curtis, I know when we talk about the

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solution, right?

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This'll come up, but I was
just recalling your situation.

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Remember when your cell phone.

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You swapped your cell phones
and you hadn't done your  yet.

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W. Curtis Preston: Yeah.

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well, well, that's what,
that's how I ended up at Authy.

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Uh, Sue, I was originally with, um, a
Google Authenticator, and the problem

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with Google Authenticator is when you
change phones, you have to make that.

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Switch over.

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And if you don't, at the time
of changing the phones, you

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have to start all over, right.

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And ma and make, uh, new
tokens for everything.

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And that was a giant pa and that's
kind of what you're talking about, that

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scenario of how do, how do I do that?

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Sue Peterson: Yeah.

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W. Curtis Preston: And, um, while
you're, you're definitely more that

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you're, you're, I put you in like,
like the prosumer category, right?

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You're a relatively small shop, um,
but you're, but you're doing this

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from a, for a professional reason.

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Um, and, um, Oh, by the way, yeah.

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And I like the fact that you're
encrypting that database.

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Um, I don't want to ask you
too many questions about how,

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how you're encrypting it.

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There are ways perhaps that you
could change your infrastructure

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that perhaps the bootstrap.

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Issue might be easier to deal with.

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So for example, I, if you moved the,
instead of having a MySQL database on

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a, on a Linux server, if you went with
a hosted MySQL database somewhere,

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um, so that it was in the cloud, that

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would be, and, and I'm not
suggesting these changes, I'm

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00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:29,250
just saying these are, these are

246
00:12:29,345 --> 00:12:30,475
Different trade offs.

247
00:12:30,510 --> 00:12:31,050
W. Curtis Preston: you could make.

248
00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:31,770
Yeah.

249
00:12:31,770 --> 00:12:32,730
Different trade offs.

250
00:12:32,850 --> 00:12:33,240
Right.

251
00:12:33,930 --> 00:12:34,710
Um,

252
00:12:34,890 --> 00:12:35,450
Sue Peterson: haven't made

253
00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:37,320
W. Curtis Preston: By the way,
here's our usual disclaimer.

254
00:12:37,380 --> 00:12:41,908
This is an independent podcast, uh, and
that, uh, you know, the opinions that

255
00:12:41,908 --> 00:12:44,068
you hear from Prasanna and I are ours.

256
00:12:44,428 --> 00:12:46,778
And also, um, be sure to rate us please.

257
00:12:47,278 --> 00:12:49,858
Uh, it helps us, it helps people find us.

258
00:12:50,188 --> 00:12:54,088
And, uh, by, just scroll down to
the bottom there and click on the.

259
00:12:54,328 --> 00:12:56,518
Five stars and hopefully five stars.

260
00:12:56,818 --> 00:12:59,848
If, if you think we're one stars, then you
know it's really not necessary for you to.

261
00:13:01,693 --> 00:13:06,493
Um, and, um, and then also if
you would like to join the,

262
00:13:06,553 --> 00:13:11,293
um, uh, the conversation, then
reach out to me the way Sue did.

263
00:13:11,293 --> 00:13:15,793
Uh, you can either use w Curtis
Preston gmail, you can use at WC

264
00:13:15,793 --> 00:13:21,733
preston on Twitter, or you can
use LinkedIn linkedin.com/i/mr.

265
00:13:21,733 --> 00:13:22,213
Backup.

266
00:13:22,633 --> 00:13:23,863
Uh, and you'll find me.

267
00:13:24,763 --> 00:13:27,313
So let's just sort of walk through this.

268
00:13:27,463 --> 00:13:36,703
Um, the one you, you were ta so with
Authy you can back up the keys, right?

269
00:13:36,708 --> 00:13:38,893
You can back up the, did we
call, what did we call them?

270
00:13:38,893 --> 00:13:39,313
Keys

271
00:13:39,563 --> 00:13:39,953
key.

272
00:13:40,103 --> 00:13:40,493
Recovery

273
00:13:40,493 --> 00:13:40,793
key.

274
00:13:40,903 --> 00:13:42,583
W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, the
rec, well, they have the recovery

275
00:13:42,583 --> 00:13:44,083
keys, but also you can back up the

276
00:13:44,083 --> 00:13:45,793
vault, right?

277
00:13:45,913 --> 00:13:48,553
Um, and then you can
restore that somewhere.

278
00:13:49,033 --> 00:13:49,393
Um,

279
00:13:49,478 --> 00:13:50,838
Sue Peterson: tried restoring

280
00:13:50,838 --> 00:13:53,148
it, but presumably it

281
00:13:53,148 --> 00:13:53,778
works.

282
00:13:54,238 --> 00:13:56,968
W. Curtis Preston: then, then the
backup person in me would say that

283
00:13:56,968 --> 00:13:59,608
you don't really have a backup if
you've never tried restoring it.

284
00:13:59,818 --> 00:14:01,078
So that would be step one.

285
00:14:01,558 --> 00:14:01,828
Yeah.

286
00:14:01,828 --> 00:14:06,688
So I, I think any of these things, the
only way you're going to know, the way the

287
00:14:06,688 --> 00:14:10,328
experience is really is to try it, right?

288
00:14:10,508 --> 00:14:13,348
Is to say, okay, I'm standing here.

289
00:14:14,203 --> 00:14:19,303
Um, and, um, uh, I have nothing.

290
00:14:19,363 --> 00:14:23,653
I have, I just went to the mac st I went
to the Apple store and he has bought a

291
00:14:23,658 --> 00:14:32,653
new iPhone and a new MacBook and I have,
uh, hopefully my, you said one password?

292
00:14:32,653 --> 00:14:33,343
Is that what you said?

293
00:14:33,483 --> 00:14:33,783
Sue Peterson: Yes,

294
00:14:34,813 --> 00:14:35,173
W. Curtis Preston: Yeah.

295
00:14:35,353 --> 00:14:39,673
So hopefully you know your
one password master password.

296
00:14:39,803 --> 00:14:44,583
Sue Peterson: I do, but I don't have
the recovery key or whatever they

297
00:14:44,583 --> 00:14:46,443
call it, because my safe burned down.

298
00:14:48,073 --> 00:14:51,103
W. Curtis Preston: well, you shouldn't,
well, again, I don't, I don't use

299
00:14:51,103 --> 00:14:52,453
one password, I use Dash lane.

300
00:14:52,753 --> 00:14:59,143
But the way, um, the way I would
think it worked, the, the way

301
00:14:59,173 --> 00:15:00,553
I would think it would work.

302
00:15:00,783 --> 00:15:03,123
Sue Peterson: They have no
way to get into anything.

303
00:15:03,123 --> 00:15:08,223
If you lose that megalong
key, they tell you to print

304
00:15:08,223 --> 00:15:09,813
it out and put it in the safe.

305
00:15:10,353 --> 00:15:11,433
And I think I,

306
00:15:12,043 --> 00:15:12,373
W. Curtis Preston: I

307
00:15:12,543 --> 00:15:15,213
Sue Peterson: as far as I
can tell, one password is

308
00:15:15,213 --> 00:15:16,233
my key.

309
00:15:16,983 --> 00:15:18,123
How do I, how do I,

310
00:15:20,173 --> 00:15:20,863
W. Curtis Preston: I, I'm

311
00:15:21,038 --> 00:15:22,118
different than other,

312
00:15:22,123 --> 00:15:22,663
W. Curtis Preston: that that's,

313
00:15:23,353 --> 00:15:23,593
yeah.

314
00:15:23,598 --> 00:15:27,043
I thi willing to guess that that's
what I would call a recovery key.

315
00:15:27,673 --> 00:15:28,093
Right.

316
00:15:28,483 --> 00:15:30,523
Which should again, I'm sorry.

317
00:15:30,523 --> 00:15:33,523
I should cuz I'm not a one
password customer should only

318
00:15:33,523 --> 00:15:36,403
be necessary if you forgot your.

319
00:15:37,363 --> 00:15:41,593
Master password, I'm pretty sure, right?

320
00:15:41,983 --> 00:15:42,643
Um,

321
00:15:43,083 --> 00:15:46,113
Sue Peterson: password, I would
not forget, but setting it up

322
00:15:46,113 --> 00:15:46,413
on a

323
00:15:46,663 --> 00:15:49,213
W. Curtis Preston: so the, by, what's
your, what's your master password?

324
00:15:49,483 --> 00:15:50,293
Tell Sue what's

325
00:15:50,293 --> 00:15:57,013
your, um, so, but yeah, so, so
the theoretically, so the, so one

326
00:15:57,018 --> 00:15:58,993
password should have an MFA set

327
00:15:58,993 --> 00:16:00,073
up, right?

328
00:16:00,673 --> 00:16:01,023
Sue Peterson: right.

329
00:16:01,153 --> 00:16:01,843
W. Curtis Preston: Um,

330
00:16:02,018 --> 00:16:03,128
But then what's the pro?

331
00:16:03,128 --> 00:16:05,948
But how do you get, and
I know we're trying to,

332
00:16:06,163 --> 00:16:08,023
W. Curtis Preston: on it
depends on how mfa Yeah.

333
00:16:08,023 --> 00:16:09,973
We're, we're trying to solve
the problem, but I, but I'm just

334
00:16:09,973 --> 00:16:12,223
sort of walking through this
is sort of what you have to do.

335
00:16:12,823 --> 00:16:17,923
So, and the only way you're gonna know it
for sure is to go try it once basically.

336
00:16:18,313 --> 00:16:19,453
Um, essentially,

337
00:16:19,593 --> 00:16:21,633
Sue Peterson: when I set it up on a new,

338
00:16:22,083 --> 00:16:24,183
new box, I need the secret

339
00:16:24,183 --> 00:16:24,573
key.

340
00:16:25,213 --> 00:16:25,503
W. Curtis Preston: yeah.

341
00:16:26,163 --> 00:16:27,613
So, um,

342
00:16:28,933 --> 00:16:31,753
so really, so you're saying
that when you set it up,

343
00:16:32,863 --> 00:16:39,553
Uh, when you go to use, um, one
password on a new laptop or whatever,

344
00:16:39,663 --> 00:16:41,103
Sue Peterson: I need that secret key.

345
00:16:41,893 --> 00:16:43,423
W. Curtis Preston: you
need the secret key.

346
00:16:43,503 --> 00:16:43,923
Sue Peterson: You do.

347
00:16:44,523 --> 00:16:47,343
You need your, you need
your master password,

348
00:16:47,673 --> 00:16:50,933
your username, and the secret key.

349
00:16:52,058 --> 00:16:54,638
That's probably the equivalent of
like two factor authentication, right?

350
00:16:54,693 --> 00:16:56,973
W. Curtis Preston: You've got the,
you got the one password question.

351
00:16:57,053 --> 00:16:58,613
Sue Peterson: Their solution is to

352
00:16:58,613 --> 00:17:00,623
give a, um,

353
00:17:00,923 --> 00:17:01,553
friend

354
00:17:01,813 --> 00:17:02,503
Uh, key.

355
00:17:02,593 --> 00:17:02,923
Yep.

356
00:17:03,553 --> 00:17:04,063
State.

357
00:17:04,333 --> 00:17:05,593
That's exactly what I was thinking.

358
00:17:05,593 --> 00:17:07,963
You give it to someone else who
doesn't live anywhere near you.

359
00:17:08,443 --> 00:17:10,933
They can't do any harm with
just the recovery key, right?

360
00:17:10,933 --> 00:17:12,733
Cuz they don't know the master
password and they can always

361
00:17:12,733 --> 00:17:13,483
give it back to you later.

362
00:17:14,243 --> 00:17:17,153
Sue Peterson: But then I need
to find somebody who wants that

363
00:17:17,153 --> 00:17:20,123
responsibility and who is trust.

364
00:17:20,543 --> 00:17:22,133
I have people that I trust

365
00:17:22,133 --> 00:17:25,973
utterly, but that's a lot of
responsibility to put on somebody.

366
00:17:26,323 --> 00:17:26,683
yep.

367
00:17:26,973 --> 00:17:28,653
W. Curtis Preston: You can give
it the, give it the Prasanna.

368
00:17:28,743 --> 00:17:29,853
He's a pretty responsible

369
00:17:29,853 --> 00:17:30,153
guy.

370
00:17:30,963 --> 00:17:31,653
Um,

371
00:17:31,853 --> 00:17:32,753
Sue Peterson: willing to pay for the

372
00:17:32,758 --> 00:17:33,353
privilege.

373
00:17:33,573 --> 00:17:35,943
W. Curtis Preston: we'll be your
we'll be your key escrow service.

374
00:17:36,453 --> 00:17:37,143
Um,

375
00:17:37,273 --> 00:17:39,103
not be a bad business, you know?

376
00:17:39,423 --> 00:17:39,633
W. Curtis Preston: yeah.

377
00:17:39,633 --> 00:17:39,903
Might

378
00:17:40,013 --> 00:17:41,333
Sue Peterson: I seriously.

379
00:17:42,513 --> 00:17:42,963
W. Curtis Preston: Yeah.

380
00:17:42,963 --> 00:17:43,443
The um,

381
00:17:43,628 --> 00:17:44,348
Sue Peterson: Seriously,

382
00:17:44,838 --> 00:17:45,498
W. Curtis Preston: That is a, yeah.

383
00:17:45,498 --> 00:17:48,728
So I'm gonna have to go research
the one password thing with ay.

384
00:17:48,848 --> 00:17:49,298
Sue Peterson: please do.

385
00:17:49,668 --> 00:17:54,408
W. Curtis Preston: Um, there should
be, um, there should be a, well,

386
00:17:54,408 --> 00:17:58,578
there is a way to basically move
your authy vault onto another thing.

387
00:17:58,998 --> 00:18:06,888
Most of the MFA stuff for, for this
level of, of stuff is often built into

388
00:18:06,918 --> 00:18:11,988
a device, which in this case it would
be your new phone that you just bought.

389
00:18:12,783 --> 00:18:13,953
Because, right.

390
00:18:13,953 --> 00:18:16,413
And so you'd have to see
what that looks like.

391
00:18:16,953 --> 00:18:21,963
Um, so just grab your husband's
phone and set it on fire

392
00:18:22,623 --> 00:18:24,843
and then, um, you know,

393
00:18:25,783 --> 00:18:26,023
see

394
00:18:26,043 --> 00:18:26,403
W. Curtis Preston: see what

395
00:18:26,408 --> 00:18:26,943
that's like.

396
00:18:26,948 --> 00:18:28,293
See how that, see how that goes.

397
00:18:29,013 --> 00:18:29,943
Um, don't do it to

398
00:18:30,083 --> 00:18:31,753
Sue Peterson: talking
about getting a new phone

399
00:18:32,703 --> 00:18:33,283
W. Curtis Preston: if he wants.

400
00:18:33,383 --> 00:18:36,933
If any of you get a new phone,
this is the time to try to think.

401
00:18:37,263 --> 00:18:37,653
Right?

402
00:18:37,773 --> 00:18:43,098
So with Athie, What I know
that is Authy recommend.

403
00:18:43,098 --> 00:18:52,338
So it regularly backs up my, my Vault and
it regularly asks me, prompts me to, um,

404
00:18:53,118 --> 00:18:55,128
for the password to that vault,

405
00:18:55,303 --> 00:18:55,723
Sue Peterson: drives

406
00:18:55,788 --> 00:18:59,148
W. Curtis Preston: which I
also store in, um, in Dash

407
00:18:59,448 --> 00:19:02,418
Lane, which I'm not using othe for.

408
00:19:02,418 --> 00:19:08,763
So, so by the way Dash lane, the way
Dash lane works is, um, That they

409
00:19:08,763 --> 00:19:12,423
would need, they would, they would
send, uh, like if everything was

410
00:19:12,428 --> 00:19:17,643
dead, they would send a text to my
phone to authenticate that device

411
00:19:18,063 --> 00:19:23,733
for, um, for that you would
need the password and be able

412
00:19:23,733 --> 00:19:24,993
to respond at that number.

413
00:19:26,053 --> 00:19:28,023
Um, now I, now I gotta go.

414
00:19:28,023 --> 00:19:28,353
I gotta

415
00:19:28,533 --> 00:19:29,343
go find that out.

416
00:19:29,343 --> 00:19:30,783
I gotta find that out for my

417
00:19:30,783 --> 00:19:31,293
own thing.

418
00:19:31,468 --> 00:19:32,008
Well, and this

419
00:19:32,008 --> 00:19:32,398
is the thing,

420
00:19:32,523 --> 00:19:33,513
W. Curtis Preston: is
why I really like the

421
00:19:33,568 --> 00:19:33,778
of it.

422
00:19:34,048 --> 00:19:34,528
Yeah.

423
00:19:34,943 --> 00:19:38,903
Sue Peterson: I think you guys
got me down this rabbit hole.

424
00:19:39,183 --> 00:19:39,738
W. Curtis Preston: Yeah.

425
00:19:39,918 --> 00:19:40,158
Yeah.

426
00:19:40,158 --> 00:19:40,488
Well, this

427
00:19:40,488 --> 00:19:41,238
is, this is

428
00:19:41,328 --> 00:19:43,998
what's, so you got, we
got you thinking about it.

429
00:19:43,998 --> 00:19:45,408
Now you got us thinking about it.

430
00:19:45,408 --> 00:19:48,138
I, I, which is why I thought
this would make a great episode.

431
00:19:48,348 --> 00:19:49,908
Everybody should think about this.

432
00:19:49,908 --> 00:19:54,168
Think about the stuff, the, all these
key managers that you have, right?

433
00:19:54,168 --> 00:19:56,298
So you have things like
othe, Google Authenticator.

434
00:19:57,158 --> 00:20:00,758
Um, you know, one password,
hopefully not last pass.

435
00:20:01,208 --> 00:20:05,208
Um, because of, you know, all the, all the
fun that they're going through right now.

436
00:20:05,978 --> 00:20:09,278
I think we've got a good idea
of this problem for sure.

437
00:20:09,728 --> 00:20:13,598
Um, so now we just need
to go get the solution.

438
00:20:14,168 --> 00:20:18,848
Uh, so we talked about, so we have
crash plan, we have Dropbox, we

439
00:20:18,848 --> 00:20:20,888
have one password, we have Authe.

440
00:20:21,028 --> 00:20:21,388
Sue Peterson: Yeah.

441
00:20:22,088 --> 00:20:23,048
W. Curtis Preston: Um,

442
00:20:23,878 --> 00:20:25,708
Sue Peterson: And ay are my

443
00:20:26,408 --> 00:20:26,708
W. Curtis Preston: yeah.

444
00:20:26,708 --> 00:20:28,478
R you're talking ayq.net.

445
00:20:28,478 --> 00:20:28,898
Right.

446
00:20:29,128 --> 00:20:29,398
Sue Peterson: yes.

447
00:20:29,618 --> 00:20:29,838
Yes.

448
00:20:29,838 --> 00:20:30,158
Sorry.

449
00:20:30,538 --> 00:20:33,233
W. Curtis Preston: Okay, so
you're, you're, so, just, just

450
00:20:33,233 --> 00:20:34,673
to make sure I understand, you,

451
00:20:35,603 --> 00:20:38,273
you are an ssy.net customer because

452
00:20:38,273 --> 00:20:38,953
of this podcast.

453
00:20:39,458 --> 00:20:40,758
Sue Peterson: It is your fault.

454
00:20:43,193 --> 00:20:45,083
W. Curtis Preston: Do you
hear that people over there

455
00:20:45,983 --> 00:20:48,803
we're just making money left
and right for other people?

456
00:20:49,463 --> 00:20:53,603
Well, with that, Sue, uh, I want to,
uh, thank you very much for coming

457
00:20:53,603 --> 00:20:59,573
on and giving us problems and, uh,
and, but you, you have to wait until

458
00:20:59,573 --> 00:21:02,663
we record the answer episode and
then we'll put it out and then you'll

459
00:21:02,668 --> 00:21:04,433
have the answer to all your problems.

460
00:21:05,293 --> 00:21:07,153
Sue Peterson: I I certainly hope so.

461
00:21:08,058 --> 00:21:10,668
daniel-curtis: I think we need to
bring on Daniel, what do you think?

462
00:21:10,788 --> 00:21:12,828
Um, you know, yeah.

463
00:21:12,888 --> 00:21:15,648
Uh, you know, he, we, we've
talked about him a lot.

464
00:21:15,888 --> 00:21:17,118
We've had him on the pod.

465
00:21:17,478 --> 00:21:20,238
Uh, he, he's an interesting,
he's an interesting individual

466
00:21:21,168 --> 00:21:22,288
that, uh, you know, he is, he.

467
00:21:22,718 --> 00:21:23,768
You know, he's professional.

468
00:21:23,768 --> 00:21:27,368
He's a marketing communications
specialist, but he also loves backups.

469
00:21:27,818 --> 00:21:32,288
Uh, he's, he's, he lives in
Israel, but he has an Irish accent.

470
00:21:32,588 --> 00:21:35,528
Uh, he's been, he's
been a guest on the pod.

471
00:21:35,533 --> 00:21:37,808
You've heard if you list, if you're
a fan of the pod, you've heard

472
00:21:37,808 --> 00:21:39,678
us reference him a time or two.

473
00:21:40,338 --> 00:21:44,898
Uh, it's our very own backup
anorak Daniel Rosehill.

474
00:21:44,918 --> 00:21:45,908
How's it going, Daniel?

475
00:21:46,233 --> 00:21:46,923
Daniel Rosehill: Hi Curtis.

476
00:21:46,923 --> 00:21:48,843
Thank you for having
me back on the podcast.

477
00:21:50,088 --> 00:21:53,658
daniel-curtis: You know what, uh, we're
super, we, we talk about you all the time,

478
00:21:53,688 --> 00:21:54,858
daniel-pras: I think I name drop him.

479
00:21:54,858 --> 00:21:55,158
Yeah.

480
00:21:55,158 --> 00:21:55,878
Anytime.

481
00:21:55,878 --> 00:21:59,388
It's like, hey, we should be like,
I think you've come up so many times

482
00:21:59,388 --> 00:22:01,398
with when it comes to MDIs, right?

483
00:22:01,398 --> 00:22:04,218
I know you're the one who sort of
pointed us in that direction, been

484
00:22:04,223 --> 00:22:05,868
like, Hey, have you guys heard of MDIs?

485
00:22:05,928 --> 00:22:06,288
Right.

486
00:22:06,288 --> 00:22:07,578
And for archiving.

487
00:22:07,668 --> 00:22:12,888
daniel-curtis: the way, Daniel, our
single most popular two episodes

488
00:22:13,188 --> 00:22:18,558
are the one where you and I I talked
about M disk and when we had the,

489
00:22:18,618 --> 00:22:20,388
the founder of M Disk on there.

490
00:22:20,988 --> 00:22:24,078
Daniel Rosehill: I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm
actually com completely flabbergasted to

491
00:22:24,078 --> 00:22:27,678
hear that because I, I've been working on
the assumption until this point that I'm

492
00:22:27,678 --> 00:22:31,338
keeping, I'm, I'm the sole reason that
the m disks are still being produced.

493
00:22:31,368 --> 00:22:32,778
Keep keeping the company in business.

494
00:22:34,578 --> 00:22:35,838
daniel-curtis: You
know, it is interesting.

495
00:22:35,838 --> 00:22:38,598
There are those who are like, oh,
this is the greatest thing ever.

496
00:22:38,838 --> 00:22:41,568
There are those who are like, oh,
well it's just the same as that.

497
00:22:41,573 --> 00:22:42,948
And there are those who are like, good.

498
00:22:42,948 --> 00:22:44,508
It's complete nonsense.

499
00:22:44,508 --> 00:22:47,478
And, um, it is, it is.

500
00:22:47,898 --> 00:22:55,893
Um, It is concerning, right, that there's
just like one vendor that's producing

501
00:22:55,893 --> 00:23:01,593
the disks and they could decide tomorrow
they're like, for some reason we sell

502
00:23:01,593 --> 00:23:03,513
a whole bunch of these in Jerusalem.

503
00:23:03,873 --> 00:23:06,543
But other than that, we don't sell very

504
00:23:06,633 --> 00:23:08,133
daniel-pras: Stockpile stockpile.

505
00:23:08,463 --> 00:23:08,973
It's funny.

506
00:23:08,973 --> 00:23:11,193
So Daniel, I started thinking
about, okay, what should I

507
00:23:11,193 --> 00:23:12,963
be doing for my data as well?

508
00:23:12,963 --> 00:23:16,893
And started looking at M disk and
went down that rabbit hole and.

509
00:23:17,328 --> 00:23:20,478
I found a deal on Amazon because
I was like, most of the time

510
00:23:20,478 --> 00:23:21,768
they're fairly expensive.

511
00:23:22,098 --> 00:23:23,028
I ended up ordering it.

512
00:23:23,028 --> 00:23:26,238
You have to be really careful because
a lot of times you'll end up with

513
00:23:26,238 --> 00:23:30,528
Blu-ray discs and not M disk, which
are two different types of media.

514
00:23:30,528 --> 00:23:34,578
You really want the M disk for your
archival media, and so I have not

515
00:23:34,578 --> 00:23:38,658
continued down and found a deal yet,
so I am waiting to back up my data.

516
00:23:39,123 --> 00:23:39,663
Daniel Rosehill: Interesting.

517
00:23:39,668 --> 00:23:43,233
I, I, I think we were talking on, on
Twitter Prasanna as, as we sometimes

518
00:23:43,233 --> 00:23:46,923
do, and, uh, I believe you're asking me
whether I have a backup to the writer.

519
00:23:46,923 --> 00:23:49,863
And then I realized there was a,
there was actually a crucial gap

520
00:23:49,923 --> 00:23:51,903
in my m disk, uh, backup strategy.

521
00:23:52,683 --> 00:23:56,313
Um, but as, as, as, as Curtis
mentioned, the m disk is the

522
00:23:56,318 --> 00:23:59,373
most unusually polarizing topic
out there, like people on.

523
00:23:59,928 --> 00:24:04,278
Spread for whatever reason, are
convinced that m disk is nonsense.

524
00:24:04,398 --> 00:24:08,268
I, I, I haven't yet seen anyone really
sort of come with cohesive proof to

525
00:24:08,273 --> 00:24:12,978
say why MDI is, uh, is, it's all, its
claims are false, but there does seem

526
00:24:12,983 --> 00:24:14,598
to be people out there with vendetta.

527
00:24:14,988 --> 00:24:16,458
I think Curtis has noticed the same thing.

528
00:24:16,463 --> 00:24:18,498
So I, I'm mostly just
leaving them to, to be.

529
00:24:20,163 --> 00:24:20,523
W. Curtis Preston: Yeah.

530
00:24:20,523 --> 00:24:25,353
Well, I think, I think you pick any
topic and you go on Reddit, you will find

531
00:24:25,353 --> 00:24:28,173
somebody who thinks that topic is Right?

532
00:24:28,252 --> 00:24:31,125
So Sue has given us
this question Prasanna.

533
00:24:31,955 --> 00:24:36,185
Uh, it's the whole, you know, we're
calling it the bootstrap question, right?

534
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,320
we always talk about, yeah,
how do you get your data back?

535
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,050
But it's like, what do you do
before you could get your data back?

536
00:24:42,050 --> 00:24:43,010
Like what's step zero?

537
00:24:44,585 --> 00:24:49,505
Well, if this was, I, I think we
can agree that if this was a company

538
00:24:50,195 --> 00:24:56,735
that we're talking about, um, and she
is talking about a company, right?

539
00:24:57,095 --> 00:25:00,095
Um, she she was talking about right,

540
00:25:00,190 --> 00:25:00,480
yeah.

541
00:25:00,740 --> 00:25:01,880
She was about come.

542
00:25:02,330 --> 00:25:03,410
Yeah, but I.

543
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,670
was a company that we're talking
about you, you should absolutely be

544
00:25:07,670 --> 00:25:10,850
having this conversation and, and
I would think it would be easier to

545
00:25:10,855 --> 00:25:14,540
have for a company than for a person.

546
00:25:14,855 --> 00:25:17,405
it because I know we that will.

547
00:25:17,765 --> 00:25:23,225
I think the challenge with the company
is you don't necessarily know where

548
00:25:23,225 --> 00:25:28,595
all your data is or all the systems,
you kind have all these siloed groups

549
00:25:28,595 --> 00:25:30,395
who have different responsibilities.

550
00:25:30,725 --> 00:25:33,635
So I know Curtis, you and I had
previously talked about a shipping

551
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,285
company that got hit with ransomware.

552
00:25:35,285 --> 00:25:35,645
Right.

553
00:25:35,915 --> 00:25:40,805
And they lost active directory servers
and they didn't have a backup of those.

554
00:25:40,805 --> 00:25:41,075
Right.

555
00:25:41,075 --> 00:25:44,195
And they just happened
to find one system that.

556
00:25:44,735 --> 00:25:46,145
Was out of sync.

557
00:25:46,145 --> 00:25:46,415
Right.

558
00:25:46,415 --> 00:25:49,835
I believe was the case And
was able to recover that.

559
00:25:49,895 --> 00:25:50,435
Correct?

560
00:25:52,100 --> 00:25:52,610
Yeah.

561
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:52,880
Yeah.

562
00:25:52,910 --> 00:25:53,390
Well, yeah.

563
00:25:53,420 --> 00:25:53,900
Oh yeah.

564
00:25:53,900 --> 00:25:59,570
That, that was the, that was that, that
huge hack and basically they, it, it was

565
00:25:59,570 --> 00:26:05,240
a, it was a, it was a fortunate storm,
so it was a storm had taken one of

566
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:10,160
their active directory service offline,
and so it wasn't online when someone

567
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,170
hacked and destroyed active directory.

568
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,440
And so, but they didn't have a
backup of ACT directory, but  they

569
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,740
just had one domain controller
that was offline, thankfully.

570
00:26:18,740 --> 00:26:21,230
And they were able to bring it
back on and, you know, and then

571
00:26:21,230 --> 00:26:22,340
they went, and then they went out.

572
00:26:22,345 --> 00:26:24,350
That's just a crazy, crazy story.

573
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:30,200
Um, I, I think what I meant, and, uh,
Daniel, you know, jump in here, um, what

574
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,825
I meant was, There are pro if you don't
know where your stuff is, you're right.

575
00:26:34,825 --> 00:26:38,545
Prasanna, and, and, and probably it's,
it's, it's easier to not know where

576
00:26:38,545 --> 00:26:42,325
your stuff is if you're a company,
but there are products that you can

577
00:26:42,355 --> 00:26:46,705
buy and there are, uh, usually Right.

578
00:26:46,765 --> 00:26:53,335
Um, cuz I just got, I just got done
editing the last pass episode where,

579
00:26:53,395 --> 00:26:58,075
you know, I was really hard on them
for using a homegrown backup product.

580
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,220
And you were saying, well,
Sometimes that's all you can

581
00:27:01,220 --> 00:27:02,870
get even when you're a company.

582
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,470
But generally speaking, there's
a product that you can buy or a

583
00:27:06,470 --> 00:27:10,310
service that you can buy, and um,

584
00:27:11,330 --> 00:27:11,750
There's,

585
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,300
of buying the right products and services.

586
00:27:14,335 --> 00:27:19,910
also the other case that those tools
are usually intended for having multiple

587
00:27:19,915 --> 00:27:22,700
people administer a system, right?

588
00:27:22,700 --> 00:27:27,350
So, unlike right, like you're gonna,
you're not just gonna trust the entire

589
00:27:27,350 --> 00:27:30,980
keys to your kingdom to one single
person, right person that sits by a bus.

590
00:27:30,980 --> 00:27:31,430
What do you do?

591
00:27:33,410 --> 00:27:33,800
Great.

592
00:27:33,860 --> 00:27:34,580
it always that?

593
00:27:34,580 --> 00:27:38,600
Why can't it be they won the
lottery and moved to Bahamas?

594
00:27:39,860 --> 00:27:45,530
Nah, because then that makes it why is
it a, why is it always gotta be Daniel?

595
00:27:45,530 --> 00:27:45,860
I don't know.

596
00:27:45,860 --> 00:27:46,970
What do you, what do you think here?

597
00:27:46,975 --> 00:27:49,580
I mean, you, you, you heard
the, you heard Sue's question.

598
00:27:50,350 --> 00:27:54,200
Um, you know, how, how ba
how bad off are we here?

599
00:27:55,235 --> 00:27:57,575
Daniel Rosehill: Well, Curtis, I,
I think the situation is probably

600
00:27:57,575 --> 00:28:00,965
best described as catastrophic
in the world of personal backup.

601
00:28:00,965 --> 00:28:05,375
There, there is absolutely nothing
and, you know, unless you take sort of

602
00:28:05,405 --> 00:28:09,785
active personal protection measures,
uh, you know, all your data just sitting

603
00:28:09,785 --> 00:28:13,205
out there in the cloud, and I think
the scenario Sue was talking about is

604
00:28:13,205 --> 00:28:17,315
something that could, I mean, it could
happen to anyone in any personal context.

605
00:28:17,315 --> 00:28:17,525
Right.

606
00:28:17,525 --> 00:28:18,395
I've, I've certainly been.

607
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,630
You could, uh, get drunk and your phone
falls into the, the river or the sea, cuz

608
00:28:23,630 --> 00:28:25,220
I know you guys are on the West Coast.

609
00:28:25,550 --> 00:28:28,820
So really if you spend your time
thinking about it, this is really

610
00:28:28,820 --> 00:28:33,710
sort of a fast track to insanity
because you realize how ter incredibly

611
00:28:33,710 --> 00:28:35,360
vulnerable, pretty much all of us are.

612
00:28:35,450 --> 00:28:39,350
And it's just a case of how can you reduce
that vulnerability just a small bit.

613
00:28:40,655 --> 00:28:41,345
daniel-curtis: Thank you very much.

614
00:28:41,345 --> 00:28:42,125
Everybody come in.

615
00:28:42,575 --> 00:28:48,635
Take I, I thought maybe you'd
give us a little bit of hope,

616
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,905
Daniel, that that sounds bad.

617
00:28:51,950 --> 00:28:52,160
daniel-pras: Yeah.

618
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,700
Daniel Rosehill: I mean, it, it, it's
a, it's a bad situation, but, you

619
00:28:55,705 --> 00:29:01,130
know, I think that the, the backup anac
community right now is, is very small.

620
00:29:01,130 --> 00:29:02,180
But, you know, you guys doing this

621
00:29:02,180 --> 00:29:05,930
podcast are spreading, spreading
awareness, and I think it, it's

622
00:29:05,930 --> 00:29:10,220
gonna take a lot more people asking
questions and poking flaws in the

623
00:29:10,220 --> 00:29:13,820
sort of backup and recovery approach
of a lot of these, um, a lot of

624
00:29:13,820 --> 00:29:17,240
these companies, you know, especially
stuff like two factor authentication.

625
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,490
Now that it's sort of so essential.

626
00:29:19,850 --> 00:29:22,520
Um, but there are still some services
that, you know, you really, if you

627
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,180
get locked, it's quite easy to get
locked out of for good and that kind

628
00:29:26,180 --> 00:29:28,790
of huge ramifications for people.

629
00:29:29,090 --> 00:29:31,190
Prasanna Malaiyandi: One of the things,
just speaking about that, right?

630
00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:34,910
So after talking to Sue, I started
looking and being like, Hey, what do I do?

631
00:29:34,910 --> 00:29:39,410
Because for me, if I don't have access to
my Apple id, everything kind of breaks.

632
00:29:40,060 --> 00:29:40,355
Right.

633
00:29:40,355 --> 00:29:41,825
And so I was like, how do I get access?

634
00:29:41,825 --> 00:29:46,295
And so I looked and about 10 years ago I'd
created a recovery key because it was like

635
00:29:46,295 --> 00:29:48,365
a 20 digit key that Apple had at the time.

636
00:29:48,935 --> 00:29:52,595
Turns out they no longer use those
and they never tell you about it.

637
00:29:52,595 --> 00:29:56,825
So, but luckily with newer versions
of iOS, you could actually create

638
00:29:56,825 --> 00:30:00,725
a recovery contact, which a lot of
other services use as well, right?

639
00:30:00,725 --> 00:30:03,755
Where you can say, Hey, if I don't
have access and I can't do two-factor

640
00:30:03,755 --> 00:30:08,795
authentication, here's someone else that
I trust that you can send my key to.

641
00:30:09,515 --> 00:30:12,635
Or at the code two verification code,
and then I can get it from them.

642
00:30:13,145 --> 00:30:15,455
So it's not like you're, because
I know Curtis, one of the things

643
00:30:15,455 --> 00:30:17,795
we've talked about is, Hey, you've
lost your phone with Sue, right?

644
00:30:18,125 --> 00:30:19,565
It's like, Hey, you've lost your phone.

645
00:30:19,865 --> 00:30:22,265
You can no longer get
two-factor authentication.

646
00:30:22,355 --> 00:30:25,745
How do I even get into my password
manager in order to be able to

647
00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:27,065
get that first bit of data back?

648
00:30:27,235 --> 00:30:27,585
Right?

649
00:30:27,845 --> 00:30:28,415
The password.

650
00:30:28,415 --> 00:30:31,475
So then I can actually get
into my actual data vaults.

651
00:30:33,260 --> 00:30:37,010
daniel-curtis: Well, the, the one with
the, the password manager, I feel was

652
00:30:37,010 --> 00:30:41,510
the one where, To me, that's where it
all starts for me personally, right?

653
00:30:41,510 --> 00:30:46,520
You talked about I need Apple, I need
access to Apple, and I agree, right?

654
00:30:46,525 --> 00:30:49,550
I need access to Apple, or I
need access to this service and

655
00:30:49,550 --> 00:30:50,750
that service and that service.

656
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,670
Well, those are all passwords.

657
00:30:53,090 --> 00:30:57,980
That without my password manager, I am
gonna have no idea how to get into Right.

658
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,450
And in order to, for many of them, I
can recover my password if I can log

659
00:31:02,450 --> 00:31:05,930
into Gmail, which I won't be able to
log in without my password manager.

660
00:31:06,470 --> 00:31:06,950
Right?

661
00:31:07,310 --> 00:31:12,800
So for me, the password, I, I think the
password manager is where you start.

662
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:18,020
And um, and I think that's what
concerned me most about Sue's

663
00:31:18,620 --> 00:31:21,560
story was that she needed.

664
00:31:21,905 --> 00:31:24,095
What was it that she said she needed?

665
00:31:24,410 --> 00:31:25,280
daniel-pras: it's, it's two things.

666
00:31:25,285 --> 00:31:28,190
So it's a key file and it's the password,

667
00:31:28,745 --> 00:31:31,565
daniel-curtis: right, so she
actually has to, she has a

668
00:31:31,570 --> 00:31:33,425
file that she has to back up.

669
00:31:33,515 --> 00:31:37,385
So to me that's a catch 20 for the
thing that starts all the things.

670
00:31:37,775 --> 00:31:38,585
What do you think, Daniel?

671
00:31:38,615 --> 00:31:40,565
It, it seems like that's a catch 22.

672
00:31:40,565 --> 00:31:41,405
That's unacceptable.

673
00:31:42,815 --> 00:31:43,235
Daniel Rosehill: Right.

674
00:31:43,235 --> 00:31:47,495
I think that, you know, um, what Prasanna
said is, is, is really essential for

675
00:31:47,495 --> 00:31:49,655
anyone looking for a password manager.

676
00:31:49,655 --> 00:31:53,525
So I don't, uh, you know, Don't, don't,
don't try to hack me after this, it,

677
00:31:53,525 --> 00:31:57,125
it may be true that I use Bit Warden
and I was looking at sort of what

678
00:31:57,125 --> 00:31:58,775
options they have for recovery today.

679
00:31:58,775 --> 00:32:01,715
It's one of these, it's kind of more
geared towards open source and whatever,

680
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,035
and they have, it's pretty decent.

681
00:32:03,035 --> 00:32:06,395
You can sort of configure an email
address and a phone number and you've

682
00:32:06,395 --> 00:32:07,895
got various layers of recovery.

683
00:32:08,915 --> 00:32:09,995
That if you get locked out.

684
00:32:10,355 --> 00:32:11,435
So that's one of the better ones.

685
00:32:11,435 --> 00:32:14,135
But I've definitely, I know there's
a lot of password managers on the

686
00:32:14,135 --> 00:32:18,155
market, especially when you're talking
about sort of Sue's situation, more

687
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,315
complicated ways of authentication.

688
00:32:20,315 --> 00:32:24,305
You'd see in the enterprise environment,
uh, you know, you need to have these,

689
00:32:24,305 --> 00:32:27,435
because, you know, if you're sitting
in a hotel room trying to get access in

690
00:32:27,665 --> 00:32:31,505
a different country, it's just way too
complicated to go fishing out sort of.

691
00:32:32,180 --> 00:32:35,330
Uh, key files or credentials
or, or code samples.

692
00:32:35,330 --> 00:32:36,290
It's just not gonna happen.

693
00:32:36,830 --> 00:32:40,220
Um, the, the other thing that, you know,
I, I was thinking, uh, Curtis, as you

694
00:32:40,220 --> 00:32:44,630
mentioned, the sort of password manager
as being the basis, uh, for everything.

695
00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:45,950
And I think the other.

696
00:32:46,430 --> 00:32:51,410
Thing that we're seeing at the moment
in personal IT world is with this, uh,

697
00:32:51,410 --> 00:32:55,790
you know, single sign on that you create
accounts with services through your

698
00:32:55,795 --> 00:33:00,980
Apple ID or Google, and that's making
the Google a choke, a choke point that

699
00:33:00,980 --> 00:33:03,350
if you got locked into your Google
now you got locked out of everything.

700
00:33:03,725 --> 00:33:04,955
So it's a big vulnerability.

701
00:33:04,955 --> 00:33:05,975
I actually ran into it.

702
00:33:06,095 --> 00:33:10,655
I was traveling two years ago and
I got locked outta Google because I

703
00:33:10,655 --> 00:33:13,505
was logging in from different hotels
in the us and it, you know, it,

704
00:33:13,715 --> 00:33:17,405
the IP pattern detect flagged me as
a whatever it thought my account.

705
00:33:17,410 --> 00:33:21,975
And it was a really, really difficult, uh,
situation to get my account access back.

706
00:33:22,115 --> 00:33:25,655
And if I didn't, it just kind of occurred
to me that, okay, it would've been

707
00:33:25,660 --> 00:33:28,415
locked out of Google, which would've
been catastrophic, would've lost all

708
00:33:28,415 --> 00:33:30,215
my emails, all my calendar, everything.

709
00:33:30,605 --> 00:33:31,925
I also would've probably been lost.

710
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,970
Locked out of everything that
I authenticated through Google.

711
00:33:35,390 --> 00:33:39,290
So the password manager is crucial
and uh, whatever that sort of second

712
00:33:39,290 --> 00:33:42,200
layer is that you're authenticating
different services through is

713
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:42,680
also

714
00:33:42,730 --> 00:33:45,130
daniel-curtis: That's an interesting
point that you brought up, uh,

715
00:33:45,135 --> 00:33:51,310
Daniel, because I had recently started
thinking that maybe because I have

716
00:33:51,370 --> 00:33:57,310
like 700 accounts, On various websites.

717
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:02,650
And I started thinking that maybe
I should use the Google, you know,

718
00:34:02,655 --> 00:34:07,870
just log in with Google, uh, instead
of having yet another account.

719
00:34:08,380 --> 00:34:12,520
And I never really thought about the
fact until just now, because like if

720
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,420
this happened with Okta, If you were
a company, and this happened with

721
00:34:16,450 --> 00:34:21,070
Okta, you have a tech support line
that you can call in and you can say,

722
00:34:21,070 --> 00:34:25,270
Hey, I'm paying you, you know, this
much money a month for my company.

723
00:34:26,110 --> 00:34:26,800
Fix me.

724
00:34:26,980 --> 00:34:27,460
Right?

725
00:34:28,180 --> 00:34:30,520
But this is your free Google account.

726
00:34:31,420 --> 00:34:35,650
You know, there's, there's, if you get
locked out, you can get locked out.

727
00:34:35,650 --> 00:34:37,900
You know, there are stories
of people that get permanently

728
00:34:37,900 --> 00:34:39,880
locked out of accounts like this.

729
00:34:40,645 --> 00:34:42,925
Uh, and that, that is a real mess.

730
00:34:42,930 --> 00:34:43,885
So I, I think so.

731
00:34:43,890 --> 00:34:47,935
I, I think you brought up a really good
point, Daniel, but let's, if we go back

732
00:34:47,935 --> 00:34:55,765
to the password manager, I think that,
um, uh, you, you, you mentioned Daniel,

733
00:34:55,765 --> 00:35:01,255
you mentioned of like, if this is for
a, maybe a company where you might

734
00:35:01,255 --> 00:35:03,925
want to have a second level of mfa.

735
00:35:03,935 --> 00:35:07,825
Uh, uh, I just, I, I think
because the question here is,

736
00:35:08,140 --> 00:35:12,580
Is that doomsday situation where
you've lost everything, right?

737
00:35:12,580 --> 00:35:15,610
You've lost your phone, you've
lost your servers, you've lost your

738
00:35:15,610 --> 00:35:19,570
computers, you've lost whatever,
and you have to start from scratch.

739
00:35:20,140 --> 00:35:20,650
Right?

740
00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:26,640
To me, there's definitely a fine
line between, at some point we do

741
00:35:26,710 --> 00:35:33,610
want to able to authenticate, and it
just sounds like in Sue's situation.

742
00:35:34,375 --> 00:35:41,065
That her password manager has a catch
22 that if she loses that file, she will

743
00:35:41,065 --> 00:35:43,315
never get back into her password manager.

744
00:35:44,125 --> 00:35:47,305
Doesn't that, that just seems wrong to me.

745
00:35:48,145 --> 00:35:50,725
Daniel Rosehill: Yeah, I mean, I've,
I played around with, with, uh, with

746
00:35:50,725 --> 00:35:53,965
a few different pastor managers,
but I think that that's, that's key

747
00:35:53,965 --> 00:35:55,615
is the sort of recovery functions.

748
00:35:55,615 --> 00:35:56,355
And I think that if.

749
00:35:56,965 --> 00:36:02,275
Anyone building a password manager
for the enterprise or for personal

750
00:36:02,275 --> 00:36:06,355
it use has to think about these
sort of catastrophes, right?

751
00:36:06,355 --> 00:36:09,895
I mean, it's a product made for
backup and disaster recovery.

752
00:36:09,895 --> 00:36:13,585
It's, it's in the name that you should
anticipate they're being disasters,

753
00:36:13,945 --> 00:36:18,415
uh, like, like the phone falling
into the, so, um, I think that any,

754
00:36:18,415 --> 00:36:20,305
any backup, any password manager.

755
00:36:20,995 --> 00:36:21,955
I use one I like.

756
00:36:22,375 --> 00:36:23,935
I also used Oy for a while.

757
00:36:23,935 --> 00:36:28,135
And actually it's funny, uh, Curtis, I
had the exact same situation that you did.

758
00:36:28,525 --> 00:36:33,415
Um, I don't want to sort of disparage
Google Authenticator, but whatever.

759
00:36:33,420 --> 00:36:36,715
I got into the situation like you
did that I had to manually recreate

760
00:36:36,985 --> 00:36:38,635
every single two factor key.

761
00:36:38,855 --> 00:36:43,705
Um, and I was like, how is this not
a feature that Google Authenticator

762
00:36:43,705 --> 00:36:47,305
can back itself up to some file,
which you could recover from?

763
00:36:47,305 --> 00:36:47,905
And then I.

764
00:36:48,220 --> 00:36:50,950
You know, a search got me
onto Oy, so it's weird.

765
00:36:50,950 --> 00:36:54,850
You, you, I think you kind of have
to sort of audit all these systems.

766
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:56,950
Like that to me is just
such a no-brainer feature.

767
00:36:56,950 --> 00:36:59,620
You'd expect someone on Google
will be like, well, we need to

768
00:36:59,620 --> 00:37:00,970
like roll out a backup thing.

769
00:37:02,605 --> 00:37:07,235
daniel-pras: Yeah, I, I think
I still wanna go back to.

770
00:37:07,685 --> 00:37:10,505
The shared responsibility, right?

771
00:37:10,505 --> 00:37:12,485
If you can find someone else,
like in Sue's case, right?

772
00:37:12,485 --> 00:37:17,915
If she had another IT person, right,
who had the same access, and it doesn't

773
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:19,145
have to be the same credentials, right?

774
00:37:19,145 --> 00:37:21,515
They could have their own key
file, whatever else, but have

775
00:37:21,515 --> 00:37:23,465
access to the same vault, right?

776
00:37:23,465 --> 00:37:25,875
They could then help her recover, right?

777
00:37:26,095 --> 00:37:30,305
And so I think always having that, and now
I know in the personal side it gets a lot.

778
00:37:30,530 --> 00:37:32,600
More difficult because no one
ever thinks about that, right?

779
00:37:32,870 --> 00:37:36,050
No one's like, Hey, I need to make
sure this other person has access to

780
00:37:36,050 --> 00:37:40,190
my data as well in case, and that's why
many of these cloud providers, right,

781
00:37:40,190 --> 00:37:44,120
apple, Google, meta, right, they're
all either doing recovery contacts or

782
00:37:44,570 --> 00:37:47,841
other mechanisms because they realize
that people are getting locked out.

783
00:37:48,110 --> 00:37:51,800
And it's hard to differentiate
between sort of locked out because

784
00:37:51,805 --> 00:37:57,050
of access, like an account takeover
process or locked out because I forgot

785
00:37:57,055 --> 00:37:59,550
something, or I did something incorrect
and got locked outta my account.

786
00:38:00,245 --> 00:38:01,085
Or forgot the password.

787
00:38:02,495 --> 00:38:02,845
Daniel Rosehill: Right.

788
00:38:03,350 --> 00:38:08,030
daniel-curtis: Yeah, as long as I,
I, I just, there are, there you, you

789
00:38:08,030 --> 00:38:11,390
need to think about the scenarios that
you're trying to protect from, right?

790
00:38:11,390 --> 00:38:15,440
Lost phone, uh, house burned down.

791
00:38:16,220 --> 00:38:19,050
Um, and you need to, you
need to go to your vendor.

792
00:38:20,210 --> 00:38:24,650
While your house isn't burned down and
your phone isn't lost, and say, what

793
00:38:24,650 --> 00:38:26,810
is, I think this is my general right?

794
00:38:26,810 --> 00:38:31,580
You just have to work your, work
your way back from, okay, so I

795
00:38:31,580 --> 00:38:36,680
have my servers backed up with this
technology, whatever it is, whether

796
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:37,720
I think it should be a cloud service.

797
00:38:37,940 --> 00:38:42,320
The smaller you are, the more
a cloud service makes sense.

798
00:38:43,220 --> 00:38:47,510
Whether you're, whether you're, I mean,
if you're, you know, if you're a giant

799
00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:51,770
company and you got 50 exabytes of
data, it's gonna be a little difficult

800
00:38:51,770 --> 00:38:53,180
to back that up with a cloud service.

801
00:38:53,180 --> 00:38:57,350
But if, if you're, you know, on the
opposite end, if you're one person

802
00:38:57,350 --> 00:38:59,030
with one phone, super easy, right?

803
00:38:59,030 --> 00:39:03,950
So, so the closer you are to one
person, one phone, uh, the easier

804
00:39:03,950 --> 00:39:06,470
it is to back up, uh, via the cloud.

805
00:39:07,070 --> 00:39:09,800
And, uh, anyway, I digress.

806
00:39:10,310 --> 00:39:11,480
Pick the thing that you're gonna.

807
00:39:11,825 --> 00:39:17,105
Back up with and then say, okay,
I'm gonna back up with this.

808
00:39:17,105 --> 00:39:23,375
And, and in a, in a wipe out
scenario, I'm going to, I need, I'm

809
00:39:23,375 --> 00:39:25,145
going to, I have to restore this.

810
00:39:25,145 --> 00:39:28,655
This is my, this is my, whatever
it is, my most important thing.

811
00:39:29,225 --> 00:39:31,105
And what do I need to restore that?

812
00:39:32,345 --> 00:39:38,240
And then, You say, okay, I need, well,
all I really need is my password.

813
00:39:38,420 --> 00:39:42,920
Well then now it's the password
manager is the other thing, is the next

814
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,350
thing that, that I have to do first.

815
00:39:46,100 --> 00:39:49,910
And if in the case of Sue, you
need two things to recover your

816
00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:53,600
password manager, then how do we
get those two things protected?

817
00:39:53,650 --> 00:39:56,440
Daniel Rosehill: I think that makes
a lot of sense and I think that, uh,

818
00:39:56,500 --> 00:39:59,890
people who are really interested in
this personal protection stuff can take

819
00:39:59,890 --> 00:40:03,640
a lot of cues from what, you know, the
stuff that you guys are doing in your,

820
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,760
in your jobs, working in the enterprise
professional environment, right?

821
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:07,180
Because.

822
00:40:07,555 --> 00:40:10,735
You guys have stuff like recovery
plans that are documented and

823
00:40:10,735 --> 00:40:11,815
everything is sort of planned.

824
00:40:12,205 --> 00:40:17,035
So I think probably a useful thing for
anyone to do, as you said, Curtis, it's,

825
00:40:17,245 --> 00:40:19,825
you know, all this stuff is really,
really about preventative, right?

826
00:40:19,825 --> 00:40:22,975
Once you're in that situation, if
you're trying to speak to a human

827
00:40:22,975 --> 00:40:25,675
at Google, you're already in a
world of pain and frustration.

828
00:40:25,765 --> 00:40:27,265
So you know what someone could do.

829
00:40:27,265 --> 00:40:30,070
Let's say listening to this
podcast is say, What would

830
00:40:30,070 --> 00:40:31,960
happen today if I lost my phone?

831
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:32,260
Right?

832
00:40:32,260 --> 00:40:36,130
So how are you gonna get access back
to your, uh, to your, uh, to your

833
00:40:36,130 --> 00:40:40,390
passwords, to your two factor credentials
if they're stored in different apps?

834
00:40:40,690 --> 00:40:43,870
Um, and you can even just, you know,
open a Google Doc and write out a

835
00:40:43,870 --> 00:40:46,960
little recovery plan for yourself
based on all those scenarios.

836
00:40:47,090 --> 00:40:51,070
Um, I don't, I don't really have any
thoughts on sort of when it's too late and

837
00:40:51,070 --> 00:40:55,990
you don't have a good system for recovery
because, you know, as, as I've experienced

838
00:40:55,990 --> 00:41:00,745
and so many people experience, It's
surprisingly easy to get something like an

839
00:41:00,745 --> 00:41:02,845
IP hopping block, get locked outta Google.

840
00:41:02,845 --> 00:41:03,955
There's no one to speak to.

841
00:41:04,375 --> 00:41:07,345
Uh, so it's really, you know, if
you're depending on these services,

842
00:41:07,345 --> 00:41:08,785
you really need to be one step ahead.

843
00:41:09,235 --> 00:41:14,575
Uh, and I think something like sort of
a, a, a plan, uh, as if you were a backup

844
00:41:14,575 --> 00:41:18,355
admin for a company, uh, documenting
it is, is probably the best approach.

845
00:41:18,715 --> 00:41:20,725
daniel-pras: I, I was just as you
were talking about this, Daniel,

846
00:41:20,725 --> 00:41:22,255
I like the document effort.

847
00:41:22,285 --> 00:41:22,585
Right.

848
00:41:22,585 --> 00:41:26,725
Or exercise, because that way you can try
to identify Okay, where are there gaps?

849
00:41:26,995 --> 00:41:31,015
I was just going back, Curtis, do
you remember, uh, the person we had

850
00:41:31,015 --> 00:41:33,085
who talked about disaster planning?

851
00:41:33,565 --> 00:41:33,835
Right.

852
00:41:33,835 --> 00:41:37,565
And this is more from, uh,
environmental disaster, right.

853
00:41:37,915 --> 00:41:38,935
Situation.

854
00:41:39,205 --> 00:41:39,505
Right.

855
00:41:39,510 --> 00:41:41,095
How do you protect your envi or

856
00:41:41,315 --> 00:41:44,182
daniel-curtis: Virginia Nichols, the
single Most animated guest we ever had.

857
00:41:44,182 --> 00:41:44,452
Yes.

858
00:41:44,502 --> 00:41:48,552
She focuses on the stuff we don't
focus on, which is, you know,

859
00:41:48,552 --> 00:41:52,152
how do you get, you know, how
do you get services back, right?

860
00:41:52,212 --> 00:41:56,622
How do you get the, the things
that you need as a human being?

861
00:41:57,252 --> 00:41:59,412
Uh, you need all that stuff first.

862
00:41:59,412 --> 00:42:03,357
And so she probably, Is better
at thinking of those of the,

863
00:42:03,417 --> 00:42:05,217
of the catch 22 situations.

864
00:42:05,217 --> 00:42:05,637
You're right.

865
00:42:05,667 --> 00:42:05,997
Yeah.

866
00:42:06,267 --> 00:42:07,197
That's a good episode.

867
00:42:07,197 --> 00:42:08,877
We'll put, we'll put
a link to that episode

868
00:42:09,222 --> 00:42:11,172
daniel-pras: and I was just
thinking also like the same process

869
00:42:11,172 --> 00:42:12,342
she had talked through, right.

870
00:42:12,342 --> 00:42:15,972
That applies even for all of these
like technology and your data as well.

871
00:42:15,972 --> 00:42:16,212
Right?

872
00:42:16,212 --> 00:42:17,982
It's just a subset of that.

873
00:42:17,982 --> 00:42:18,222
Right.

874
00:42:18,222 --> 00:42:20,802
Because I know she talked about,
do you have your passport?

875
00:42:20,802 --> 00:42:21,672
Do you have cash?

876
00:42:21,672 --> 00:42:22,932
Do you have gas in your card?

877
00:42:22,932 --> 00:42:23,682
Do you have food?

878
00:42:23,682 --> 00:42:23,683
Right.

879
00:42:23,688 --> 00:42:27,402
All these sort of essentials,
if you will, right.

880
00:42:27,462 --> 00:42:28,452
Life essentials.

881
00:42:28,722 --> 00:42:30,072
Now we're just going
down to the next level.

882
00:42:30,072 --> 00:42:32,322
It's like, okay, now your data,
how do you get your data back?

883
00:42:33,547 --> 00:42:37,352
Daniel Rosehill: I think Curtis is also,
um, probably something in that as well,

884
00:42:37,352 --> 00:42:40,832
that it's very difficult when you're
trying to think of stuff like, you know,

885
00:42:40,862 --> 00:42:43,682
disaster recovery and, and the things
that we don't wanna think about to

886
00:42:43,682 --> 00:42:46,532
actually do a good job, uh, with yourself.

887
00:42:46,562 --> 00:42:49,352
And maybe, maybe that's another thing
that, that, you know, people could do

888
00:42:49,412 --> 00:42:53,462
is actually, maybe let's say you have
a partner or a wife or whatever, you

889
00:42:53,462 --> 00:42:56,102
could, you could sort of go through
these scenarios to one another.

890
00:42:56,102 --> 00:42:58,262
If you, if this happened
to you, what would you do?

891
00:42:58,757 --> 00:43:02,417
Um, rather than just kind of trying to
envision all these possibilities yourself.

892
00:43:02,591 --> 00:43:04,991
Fun, fun, uh, dinnertime
conversation topic, right?

893
00:43:09,146 --> 00:43:12,476
daniel-curtis: yeah, I think,
I think, you know, a good time.

894
00:43:12,971 --> 00:43:18,561
I, I just had this idea a good
time to test your , your idea.

895
00:43:18,561 --> 00:43:20,221
So  you get your idea and you get a plan.

896
00:43:20,521 --> 00:43:26,531
A great time to test that plan is,
when you get a new device, right, you

897
00:43:26,531 --> 00:43:30,851
get a new Mac, you get a new iPhone,
you get a new Android device, you

898
00:43:30,851 --> 00:43:36,011
get a new pixel, whatever it is, at
that moment, you can pretend like

899
00:43:36,011 --> 00:43:38,971
you just lost your phone, right?

900
00:43:39,081 --> 00:43:42,211
Because, because they make
it really easy when you buy.

901
00:43:42,491 --> 00:43:45,581
I know, I know I haven't had an Android
for a while, but I know when you get

902
00:43:45,581 --> 00:43:52,721
a new iPhone, the easiest way to move
over to a new iPhone is to, um, Just

903
00:43:52,721 --> 00:43:56,381
have the other iPhone and it'll transfer
the data directly from that iPhone.

904
00:43:56,381 --> 00:43:57,761
And I'm saying don't do that.

905
00:43:58,211 --> 00:44:02,681
I'm saying, um, pretend like you
lost your iPhone and see what

906
00:44:02,681 --> 00:44:05,081
recovering that process is like.

907
00:44:05,621 --> 00:44:12,101
Um, I think that in the case of personal
password managers or very small business

908
00:44:12,191 --> 00:44:17,591
password managers, where it's a single
person in a single account, you will,

909
00:44:17,861 --> 00:44:21,551
um, there has to ultimately be a person.

910
00:44:22,861 --> 00:44:25,646
Who is the, the MFA sponsor?

911
00:44:25,796 --> 00:44:29,936
So with a typical password manager there
is like, for example, my wife and I

912
00:44:29,936 --> 00:44:32,006
share a password manager for a while.

913
00:44:32,006 --> 00:44:34,046
We were paying for Dash Lane twice.

914
00:44:34,346 --> 00:44:36,206
And then I realized, well this is dumb.

915
00:44:36,206 --> 00:44:40,226
We, you know, it's not like we need
to keep account secret from another.

916
00:44:40,231 --> 00:44:44,666
So, so we just have one dash lane account,
which is also how I ended up having

917
00:44:44,666 --> 00:44:49,136
700, 700 accounts cuz you know, there's
all her accounts plus all my accounts.

918
00:44:49,796 --> 00:44:50,156
But,

919
00:44:50,266 --> 00:44:52,841
daniel-pras: that she has
and then the 650 you have.

920
00:44:55,061 --> 00:44:55,481
daniel-curtis: do you

921
00:44:55,691 --> 00:44:58,911
Daniel Rosehill: is this the truth,
Curtis, are you, um, are, are, are,

922
00:44:59,081 --> 00:45:00,161
are you hiding something from us?

923
00:45:00,166 --> 00:45:02,411
Is there, is, is there a
secret site Password manager?

924
00:45:02,681 --> 00:45:04,751
daniel-curtis: there's
just, there's just a lot.

925
00:45:04,751 --> 00:45:07,121
There's a lot of accounts out there.

926
00:45:07,181 --> 00:45:07,661
I don't know.

927
00:45:07,691 --> 00:45:09,431
I don't know why I have
so many accounts anyway.

928
00:45:09,461 --> 00:45:11,471
Daniel Rosehill: I have, I have
to actually say that, that that

929
00:45:11,471 --> 00:45:13,061
is a really, really good idea.

930
00:45:13,121 --> 00:45:15,311
We're, we're, we're, we're
talking today about sort of

931
00:45:15,311 --> 00:45:17,561
like advanced stuff and Right.

932
00:45:17,561 --> 00:45:22,331
If, if we have a recovery, that's the
most sort of simple but effective way of

933
00:45:22,331 --> 00:45:24,131
delegation is just to share an account.

934
00:45:24,136 --> 00:45:28,451
I, I also share some credentials with
my wife or like, Netflix, whatever.

935
00:45:28,451 --> 00:45:31,571
And, you know, if someone's in
hospital or asleep, that that's, that's

936
00:45:31,571 --> 00:45:34,331
actually a great, a great system.

937
00:45:34,601 --> 00:45:35,021
Um,

938
00:45:35,051 --> 00:45:36,971
I mean, and of course you
can also have your joints.

939
00:45:38,186 --> 00:45:41,516
daniel-curtis: If you have a partner,
a spouse, it's, it's super easy to do.

940
00:45:41,846 --> 00:45:45,266
And then, uh, even a friend, it's just
gotta be a really good friend, right?

941
00:45:45,266 --> 00:45:46,856
Cuz you're not gonna keep
any secrets from him.

942
00:45:47,306 --> 00:45:56,036
The, the, um, but my point is that there
is an ultimate arbiter of the account

943
00:45:56,126 --> 00:46:00,446
and this, and, and in other words, my
phone number is the one that is the.

944
00:46:01,166 --> 00:46:05,786
If, if all, you know, if the feces
hits a rotary oscillator and we lose

945
00:46:05,876 --> 00:46:12,686
both of our, uh, devices authenticating
from the very beginning, it would

946
00:46:12,686 --> 00:46:16,166
have to be done with the phone number
that's attached to the account.

947
00:46:16,376 --> 00:46:16,796
Right.

948
00:46:17,306 --> 00:46:20,306
Um, and the email address
that's attached to the account.

949
00:46:20,546 --> 00:46:22,106
And that one would be mine.

950
00:46:22,496 --> 00:46:22,916
Right.

951
00:46:23,036 --> 00:46:24,596
Um, but

952
00:46:24,641 --> 00:46:27,851
daniel-pras: your phone, you lost
your sim, you don't have you got

953
00:46:27,851 --> 00:46:30,161
locked out of your email account?

954
00:46:31,586 --> 00:46:33,956
daniel-curtis: Well, well, it would
have to be both of us because my wife

955
00:46:33,956 --> 00:46:37,976
could authenticate if I got a new
device, I could easily authenticate,

956
00:46:38,426 --> 00:46:42,836
um, with, with my, because what the
way it worked, their MFA with Dashlane,

957
00:46:42,866 --> 00:46:46,166
it pops it up on other devices that
are currently running Dashlane.

958
00:46:46,386 --> 00:46:46,736
Right.

959
00:46:47,156 --> 00:46:48,736
But we'd have to lose all devices.

960
00:46:48,796 --> 00:46:54,206
So in my case it would be, I'd have to
lose my laptop, both phones, the iPads.

961
00:46:55,121 --> 00:46:57,461
This would be a very bad day
for the Preston household.

962
00:46:58,391 --> 00:47:01,511
So really that's what it comes back
to, that that, that basically goes

963
00:47:01,511 --> 00:47:07,241
back to what I said before, is decide
what your ultimate sort of final or

964
00:47:07,241 --> 00:47:10,181
begin, you know, it's the final thing,
but it's like the beginning thing.

965
00:47:10,181 --> 00:47:13,291
In a recovery scenario, what's the
thing that you're going to use?

966
00:47:13,781 --> 00:47:14,891
Is it an email account?

967
00:47:15,761 --> 00:47:18,746
Is it, um, your othe password?

968
00:47:18,746 --> 00:47:20,546
Is it your password manager?

969
00:47:20,546 --> 00:47:21,266
Password?

970
00:47:21,686 --> 00:47:24,386
Um, figure out what that is.

971
00:47:24,626 --> 00:47:28,646
Pick the thing that you're gonna do and
just remember, you've got to remember

972
00:47:28,651 --> 00:47:31,586
that password, uh, to that thing.

973
00:47:31,721 --> 00:47:32,111
daniel-pras: Yeah.

974
00:47:32,351 --> 00:47:33,491
And that, that's kind of what I do.

975
00:47:33,491 --> 00:47:35,711
Like when I was talking about
my Apple environment, right?

976
00:47:35,716 --> 00:47:36,671
That's the one password.

977
00:47:36,701 --> 00:47:41,771
So I know two passwords, my apple password
and my password manager password, right?

978
00:47:41,801 --> 00:47:43,091
Those are the two passwords that

979
00:47:43,136 --> 00:47:43,946
daniel-curtis: that's what I have.

980
00:47:44,531 --> 00:47:44,801
daniel-pras: Yeah.

981
00:47:45,131 --> 00:47:45,811
Uh, but.

982
00:47:46,091 --> 00:47:49,241
Daniel Rosehill: do you guys think, do you
guys think that there's any possibility

983
00:47:49,241 --> 00:47:53,141
that in like 10 years time we're gonna
have like, implantable chips with like,

984
00:47:53,411 --> 00:47:55,541
you know, human based authentication?

985
00:47:55,551 --> 00:47:56,781
daniel-curtis: It's gonna be biometric.

986
00:47:56,781 --> 00:47:58,101
There's no silver bullet here.

987
00:47:58,281 --> 00:47:59,781
But you have any final thoughts?

988
00:48:01,751 --> 00:48:04,181
Daniel Rosehill: I think the
conclusions, um, we've, we've come

989
00:48:04,181 --> 00:48:05,651
to make a lot of sense, Curtis, that.

990
00:48:06,416 --> 00:48:12,131
Um, you know, it proactivity, uh, going
in ahead, thinking about it beforehand,

991
00:48:12,551 --> 00:48:16,241
thinking, I like the idea that, you know,
you're, you're gonna write the dash lane.

992
00:48:16,811 --> 00:48:20,261
Um, and actually sort of like ask hard
questions of these people because that's

993
00:48:20,261 --> 00:48:23,611
what their, you know, support teams and
customer success teams are, are there for.

994
00:48:24,271 --> 00:48:28,301
Um, and just putting the thinking in
before you get to these problematic

995
00:48:28,301 --> 00:48:31,031
scenarios because I think no one
wants to be in the position Sue was

996
00:48:31,031 --> 00:48:34,451
in, uh, trying to deal with recovery
cuz it's just so much more messy.

997
00:48:34,597 --> 00:48:38,357
I'm I'm trying not to be too, too
decisive cuz  I'm gonna get an email

998
00:48:38,357 --> 00:48:41,207
in like six months being like, I did
what you said and I'm locked out.

999
00:48:42,962 --> 00:48:46,592
daniel-pras: Well, and so, and so,
Daniel, for this, for this, since you

1000
00:48:46,592 --> 00:48:50,522
brought up that point, I would say
the one thing is once you've thought

1001
00:48:50,527 --> 00:48:55,502
of it and you've documented how you
would recover, go test it out, right?

1002
00:48:55,532 --> 00:48:56,972
Make sure it actually works.

1003
00:48:56,977 --> 00:48:59,192
Make sure that you don't
have any gaps, right?

1004
00:48:59,192 --> 00:48:59,842
That you can recover.

1005
00:49:00,152 --> 00:49:01,362
And I like your example, Curtis.

1006
00:49:01,512 --> 00:49:05,042
Imagine that you're starting
from a clean slate, right?

1007
00:49:05,042 --> 00:49:06,362
No devices, nothing.

1008
00:49:06,932 --> 00:49:07,532
What do you do?

1009
00:49:09,317 --> 00:49:11,987
daniel-curtis: You know, another way
to do that is if you're like me, you

1010
00:49:11,992 --> 00:49:17,037
have a couple of old phones sitting
around, um, take out one of those

1011
00:49:17,097 --> 00:49:18,477
and pretend it's your new phone.

1012
00:49:19,542 --> 00:49:23,777
And then recover, pretend that your
other phone is completely dead and you're

1013
00:49:23,777 --> 00:49:25,337
not allowed to reach to your phone.

1014
00:49:25,487 --> 00:49:25,877
Right.

1015
00:49:26,387 --> 00:49:29,987
Um, that's, that's the
only thoughts I have.

1016
00:49:30,047 --> 00:49:31,787
I'm gonna just gonna
go back to what I said.

1017
00:49:31,792 --> 00:49:35,478
Just work your way back from, I have
to recover this, so recover this, I

1018
00:49:35,483 --> 00:49:37,937
need this, recover this, I need this.

1019
00:49:38,477 --> 00:49:41,927
And ultimately, just make
sure that whatever that is,

1020
00:49:41,957 --> 00:49:43,967
you have a very easy plan.

1021
00:49:44,542 --> 00:49:49,487
To get that back when, you know,
the, the, whatever the worst happens,

1022
00:49:49,877 --> 00:49:51,377
uh, that could possibly happen.

1023
00:49:51,377 --> 00:49:51,707
So.

1024
00:49:52,937 --> 00:49:55,667
Well, I'm glad, I'm glad
we had this conversation.

1025
00:49:55,667 --> 00:49:59,237
I'm, you know, I'm not sure we
had good answers, but I, I think

1026
00:49:59,237 --> 00:50:00,857
this is a good planning question.

1027
00:50:00,862 --> 00:50:01,057
Right.

1028
00:50:01,287 --> 00:50:04,517
What, you know, this is a,
like you said, being proactive.

1029
00:50:04,517 --> 00:50:08,747
Daniel, uh, you know, I, I agree with
you, Daniel, your general thoughts.

1030
00:50:09,122 --> 00:50:12,332
Which is, there's not a lot
of good options for consumers.

1031
00:50:12,842 --> 00:50:16,712
There's also not a lot of good
options for small businesses.

1032
00:50:17,192 --> 00:50:18,482
Like, like truly small.

1033
00:50:18,482 --> 00:50:20,402
What I call this, this
is a Curtis category.

1034
00:50:20,402 --> 00:50:23,312
You know, we have the SMB category, right?

1035
00:50:23,612 --> 00:50:27,813
The a Curtis category is called the tsb,
the, the truly small businesses, right?

1036
00:50:28,092 --> 00:50:28,442
Right.

1037
00:50:28,442 --> 00:50:30,512
So the literally the mom and pops.

1038
00:50:30,842 --> 00:50:34,592
Um, there, there's not
a lot of options there.

1039
00:50:34,952 --> 00:50:37,502
Uh, but there are services, right?

1040
00:50:37,862 --> 00:50:40,352
That are, I've been testing one.

1041
00:50:40,382 --> 00:50:43,382
Uh, we'll talk about it later
on, on another, uh, podcast.

1042
00:50:44,342 --> 00:50:46,892
Uh, we'll talk about it
later on another episode.

1043
00:50:47,282 --> 00:50:51,076
And, um, there's, there's
no perfect answers.

1044
00:50:51,366 --> 00:50:52,986
I hope we helped Sue.

1045
00:50:53,406 --> 00:50:55,506
Um, you know, I, I'm sure

1046
00:50:55,556 --> 00:50:58,016
Daniel Rosehill: I just wanna also make
clear, Curtis, that the advice offered

1047
00:50:58,016 --> 00:50:59,576
here doesn't come with any warranty.

1048
00:50:59,816 --> 00:51:00,356
So any,

1049
00:51:00,356 --> 00:51:04,196
any, anyone, anyone who actions, any
advice they heard on this, on this

1050
00:51:04,196 --> 00:51:07,766
episode or the podcast in general,
absolutely should not, uh, reach out

1051
00:51:07,771 --> 00:51:10,736
to any of us by email with complaints.

1052
00:51:10,736 --> 00:51:12,506
You're, you, you, you are on your own.

1053
00:51:12,806 --> 00:51:13,616
But, uh,

1054
00:51:13,931 --> 00:51:16,451
daniel-curtis: You're on, you're on
your own, and you might not be able to

1055
00:51:16,451 --> 00:51:19,871
reach out to us via email because you
don't have your password to your email.

1056
00:51:19,961 --> 00:51:26,501
Uh, so with that, um, I want to, uh,
thank the listeners and remember to

1057
00:51:26,501 --> 00:51:29,081
subscribe so that you can restore it all.