00:00:07 Nazish: What if your longing isn't a problem to fix, but a signal, a quiet ache that says you were made for something more? Tonight, we're sitting with a big question in a gentle way. What is the soul and what does eternity mean in human life that still has bills. Grief and love and ordinary Tuesdays. Welcome

00:00:29 Nazish: to inner peace, better health. A space where we slow down, connect mind and body and explore what helps us feel steady on the inside. I am Nazish and today I'm joined by Corey Rosseinsky, author, pastor. Communicator. A topic is the nature of the soul and eternity and what this conversation can offer you. When life feels uncertain, heavy, or strangely empty. Even when everything looks fine. If you have ever felt a deep craving you couldn't name, this episode is for you. Welcome to the show, Corey.

00:01:07 Cory Rosenke: Thank you so much for having me.

00:01:09 Nazish: Wonderful. So What's a moment in your life where the idea of eternity stopped being abstract and started feeling personal?

00:01:20 Cory Rosenke: I would say that it started for me years ago when I was reading a book by C.S. Lewis, and he had a very simple line in it that just kind of turned my head upside down where he said, um, you are not a body with a soul. You are a soul with a body. And it was really something that made me think. And over the years, as I started looking at the world around me, I realized that we were all searching for something that we couldn't quite grasp. And in another book C.S. Lewis wrote, he said. He said that the surest signal that we were made for something more than that's here is the fact that we crave things that this world can't satisfy. Um, one of them being we crave, we crave eternity. And if if eternity didn't exist, we wouldn't have the craving. He like he uses the example. He says, you know, a a duckling is born wanting to or is hatched, wanting to swim. Well, there's such a thing as water. If there was no such thing as water, the duckling never would have been born with a desire to swim. You know, a bird is is is hatched with a desire to fly. If there's such a thing as never such a thing as flight, There would be no desire to fly. And we are born with this ache, this hunger for something that this world doesn't satisfy. And I believe that that's one of the primary reasons why we look at the world around us and we see all this disruption. You know, we live in a time and an age where we have more than any other generation in history. Um, we have more prosperity, more education, more access to health. Uh, and yet every statistic shows we are more unhappy than ever. And I believe that is because we are aching for something. Um, that this world cannot satisfy.

00:03:23 Nazish: Absolutely. And that sounds such a beautiful reframe. And, you know, I love that you start with lived experience because in eternity is often discussed like a concept, but we feel it first.

00:03:36 Cory Rosenke: Mhm.

00:03:37 Nazish: Yeah.

00:03:40 Cory Rosenke: Absolutely. And I would, I would say, you know, as a, as a pastor, you know, and I think there are many, many spiritual worldviews that are viewed this way, but I'll just speak from the one that that I'm most familiar with is that we were created to live in connection with our maker, and that is our design. And to live in any other way simply won't satisfy. It's like a it's like an electrical tool trying to find purpose outside of being plugged into its power source. And I think, unfortunately for humanity, we do not walk in the peace. We should walk in. We do not walk in the joy that we should walk in. We don't experience it because, um, we are looking to the world to satisfy us. What it can't.

00:04:32 Nazish: Absolutely. You know, a lot of people hear soul and think either religious language or something vague and poetic. What do you think is the biggest misconception we carry about soul. And why does that misunderstanding matter in everyday mental health and emotional health?

00:04:49 Cory Rosenke: Yeah, I think the biggest misunderstanding is that is that we are body and mind. And if there is a soul that it's kind of it piggybacks. It's like it's a long further ride when I would say the reverse is what's true. Your soul is the core of who you are. It's like that C.S. Lewis quote that I mentioned, right? You are not a body with a soul. You are a soul with a body. It is the core of who you are. Um, and my whole life's research from, from theology, theology to psychology to behaviorism has been trying to find the root of our desire as people. Why is it, what are we looking for and why are we looking for it? And I think that's the biggest misconception we think that, um, satisfaction is going to be, is going to come through eating. It's going to come through sex, it's going to come through all these biological cravings. But you. More than a brain or a body. You are a soul. We are all souls. And until we understand what our soul is craving. It's only then that we can understand what we're looking for. And it's only when we understand what we're looking for that we actually have any hopes in finding it.

00:06:02 Nazish: I agree that is very true. And you know, it is so important because spirituality turns into performance or panic. The body tightens. But when it becomes honest, you can breathe again.

00:06:14 Cory Rosenke: Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And when you know what you're looking for, uh, there's a confidence that you begin walking through life with, there's a, a compassion because you understand what the people around you are looking for. And, um, isn't peace and compassion kind of the two things that we need most in this world?

00:06:35 Nazish: So, you know, let's just stay with that. Uh, you talk about craving of souls, You know, many people try to soothe that craving through achievement, relationships, scrolling, even constant self-improvement. From your view, what does this soul actually craving? Underneath all that?

00:06:56 Cory Rosenke: Well, the first book I wrote a number of years ago is called The Magnetic Heart of God Understanding the Five Cravings of Your Soul. And I believe that all of human activity, all of human desire, all of human ambition can be understood by understanding the five core cravings of the soul. And the first craving is security. Every human being who has ever lived has craved security. And we can break that down into two parts. There's physical security, which, you know, the scientific world we're going to call that, you know, the the will to live, uh, the drive to survive. Um, but we're also craving relational security. And so we're looking to feel safe body, mind and soul and across every generation, every culture in human history. Um, that is one of the cravings of the soul. It's not just a psychological craving. It goes far deeper. Um, so security, we're also craving identity. We need to know that we belong somewhere. We need to know that we are, we're part of a group that wants us. And, um, and that's a very interesting craving in and of itself because there's, there's no, um, comparison that we can look to in, in, uh, the world of all the many creatures out there, but, but humanity who has this strong craving for identity and if, and if we don't, if we don't feel like we belong. Um, there are many people who've decided that life isn't worth living. It's a very powerful craving. So security, identity, independence, you know, oftentimes we call it freedom. The great cry throughout all the world for freedom, for autonomy. This is not just a psychological craving. It's a craving for a soul that I believe we were we were created to have. So security, identity, independence, and significance, this is a huge one. Um, we all need to know that we're special. We all need to know there is something about us that sets us apart. Um, for some people, they need to be the fastest man in the world. Maybe Usain Bolt. For other people, they need to feel like they make the best chocolate chip cookies. But we have to know there is something about us that is significant. And if we if we don't think there is at least a depression and despair. And the fifth one, I think, which is often overlooked, see those first four. Um, you will find in every psychological journal over the last two hundred years, security identity, independent significance. I believe they have categorized them into the psychological. I would say they are spiritual cravings. They are deeper. The fifth one that oftentimes people miss is innocence. We need to believe that we are good. We need to believe that that we are not guilty. And in fact, I would say that almost every fight that you've had, any offense you've ever taken was based on the fact that either someone threatened your significance or your innocence, someone made you feel guilty, and your response is just to lash out back, right? Maybe in a, in a, in a, in a marriage. You know, someone says, hey, you left your, your socks on the floor and even something little like that, we know it like it pricks us. You're saying that I'm guilty and so what do we do? We generally don't say, oh, I'm sorry about that. We we we may say that, but we think, oh, yeah. Well, you didn't make the bed this morning. You know, we have to we have these what I call innocence wars. Who's the most innocent? And so I believe what the soul is looking for. Every human activity on earth boils down to these five soul cravings security, identity, independence, significance, and innocence. And I believe that those cravings exist inside us, that they were placed inside us by our creator for the purpose of pulling us back to our creator. Because at the end of the day, the only true source of all of those cravings is going to be found in connection with our maker. If your security is in your bank account, guess what? It can be taken away. If your identity is in your success, guess what? It can be taken away. And we can go all the way down the list. The purpose for these cravings is to keep us connected to our maker.

00:11:06 Nazish: I couldn't agree more with you and that is so very well-put. And you know, it's not just philosophy. There is a real inner cause. The soul speaks through the heart and sometimes through the nervous system.

00:11:20 Cory Rosenke: Yeah. I would say that the hierarchy of, of humanity and if we're looking at our inner hierarchy is the body takes instructions from the mind, the mind takes instructions from the soul. Your soul is the core of who you are. Your soul is the boss. It is the one calling the shots. And it is out of those five cravings that that the soul is looking for. The body is craving food and water, but the soul inside of us is craving security, identity, independence, significance and innocence. And whether you're looking to get married, you're looking to have those five cravings satisfied. If you're looking to get divorced, it's because you didn't feel like those cravings were satisfied. Every human relationship we enter, every job we pursue is in the hopes that it will satisfy these cravings. And ultimately it won't. We those they'll only be satisfied in connection with our maker.

00:12:14 Nazish: So, you know, I want to bring this into real life. Now, when someone is experiencing anxiety, grief, burnout, or a sense of emptiness, how do you differentiate what might be life stress versus something you'd call a deeper soul hunger?

00:12:31 Cory Rosenke: Yeah. All anxiety and fear Is based on. A connection with something that cannot last. A connection with something that is earth bound. And so I often will tell people that anxiety is a signal. It's telling you that you have placed too much hope on something that can't bear the weight. And so as an example, if I am if I'm codependent in a relationship and my entire identity is based on we and not on me, right? There's nothing wrong with having a wee identity, but when it's when I can't, when I don't have an identity apart from the relationship I have placed. And my anxiety then is that that relationship could fail, that a relationship could fall apart. And I live life as a nervous wreck. It's a clear sign to me that I have placed more burden or or created more of a connection with something than is healthy or fair, both for it and for me. So as an example, a spouse as an example. Um, if you, if, if, if I place all of my security and all of my need for significance on them, that is a burden they were not designed to carry. I need to have a, it's not fair of me to place that upon them. And so my anxiety is if I lose them, I lose myself. And so it doesn't matter. Whenever we're looking at anxieties in our lives, we have to say, what is the root of this anxiety? Okay, well, maybe it's that I'll lose my job. Well, the anxiety is if I lose my job, I've lost my security. And so if your entire security is based on that particular job, you've placed more on it than it's able to carry. And so I always encourage people, when you feel those signals of anxiety, it's a time to revisit, um, how much weight we have placed on something and then to diversify or in a better case, plug in to the largest source that doesn't fail, and that is your maker.

00:14:47 Nazish: Absolutely. That is so true. And that is such a relief to hear, because it tells listeners you don't want to wait for a breakdown to take your inner life seriously.

00:15:00 Cory Rosenke: Absolutely. Yeah. The and so and the thing too is, so when you look at anxiety, whenever we look at things in life, like anxiety, shame, anger, these are things that a whole lot of the world is ruled by them. We are ruled by our anxiety. We are ruled by our anger. We are ruled by our shame. And what we have to learn to do is say, you know what? These cannot be my master, but if I am wise, I can. I can allow them to be my friend and that they will point to the problem that needs to be fixed. And anger is a classic example, right? When if someone does something and I flash forward in anger, it I have to like, okay, what am I protecting? Or what am I running away from? And anger helps me find that source. And then once I found that source, I can do something about it.

00:15:59 Nazish: Absolutely. You know, for someone listening in right now who feels spiritually restless or afraid of death or stuck in questions about heaven or hell, meaning eternity, what is one general practice or reflection that helps them come back to steadiness without forcing certainty?

00:16:18 Cory Rosenke: Yeah. Well, I would, I guess I would come back then to my particular worldview and I, and I would say, I believe that we were created by a loving creator whose desire is to walk with us in connection and the reasons we see the discord in the world today is because we are not walking in connection with our maker. And so first off, I would encourage us to realize that not only are you a soul, but you are an eternal soul. And so that means this world we are currently in is finite. It is small. It is not all there is. In fact, I think the only reason that we are placed in this specific place in time is so that because we are granted the opportunity and the freedom to determine whether we are going to walk in connection with our maker or not. And so I would say for people, the choice before you today is to, is to keep on living as if this is all there is and be kind of surrounded by the anxiety and the anger, or to realize that you were made for more. You were made by a creator who loves you and a creator that wants to connect with you and doesn't just want to connect with you. In this short life, but in eternity to come.

00:17:47 Nazish: Absolutely. That is so true. And, you know, I really appreciate that steadiness doesn't always come from answers. Sometimes it comes from relationship. Your presence and from returning to what feels true, like life true and life giving.

00:18:04 Cory Rosenke: Absolutely. You know, one of the things in the Christian faith that is mentioned about Jesus is it says, for the joy set before him, he endured the cross. And what that means is the reason we can face hardships now, the reason we can face burdens now with joy, without being overwhelmed, is because we can look forward to a better day. And that doesn't mean we don't try to make things as, as right as possible in the here and now, but it certainly relieves the burden of it. I don't have to accomplish everything right now. I don't have to be all I'm going to be right now. I don't have to right every wrong right now. Um, because I'm not alone. And I know that there is a wrong writer in our creator. That is not me. I know there is someone who is just and good and loving, who will ultimately one day make all things right. And because of that, because of the joy set before us, we can live in peace now, even when circumstances aren't perfect.

00:19:19 Nazish: And you know, even when people begin their inner journey, they often set it. They often hit setbacks. Doubts return. Suffering happens. Prayers feel unanswered and life gets messy. So when someone feels like I am losing faith and I'm not sure what to believe in anymore. What do you want to say to help them?

00:19:43 Cory Rosenke: I would say to you, I'm going to use a word now that nobody's going to like, but it is a word. It is the game changer of all game changers. And I'm going to use two words actually, um, accountability and fellowship. And that is to say, if I could use another biblical story, there's a biblical story where there's where there's two armies fighting and for the sake of metaphor for the people who maybe aren't familiar with with things like this, I'd say there's the good side and there's the bad side. And, um, the story goes, as long as Moses is holding his staff in the air, the good side is winning. But he gets tired. And as he gets tired, he his, he just can't hold his arms over his, his head anymore. And so he just can't. He's lowers the staff and so they start to lose. And so two, two characters named Aaron and Hur. They run up and they hold his arms in the air. And to me that is the ultimate picture of what good friendship and good fellowship and good accountability is intended to do. There are times when we will get discouraged. There are times when we will not see the light. And so the important thing in those times is to make sure you are surrounded by the right people who will help hold your arms in the air and help point you keep you pointed toward the direction you want to be going. The relationships we cultivate around us really matter in our success, in our journey. Will these be people who sometimes we have people who, um, either discourage us, um, by being negative or we have people who will be over positive and they won't tell us the truth. And so they'll encourage us right off the cliff, so to speak. And so what we want to do, the secret sauce, I would say, is to cultivate relationships right now. So when those hard times come and they will, when that storm comes, you have people around you that you trust to hold you up and to help carry you forward.

00:21:47 Nazish: Absolutely. And you know, this is so very well said. And I, I, I am going to say that this is going to resonate with a lot of our listeners tonight. So, Corey, for people who resonated with your work and, you know, want to learn more from you and follow your writing, you know, where can they find you?

00:22:07 Cory Rosenke: Um, they can find me anywhere on the internet. Corey. Com is my website. Um, you can buy my books wherever books are sold. My, my first book, The Magnetic Heart of God Understanding the Five Cravings of Your Soul, really is a deep dive into these concepts, a deep dive where I would say it parallels theology with psychology. Um, and with behaviorism, and it really helps people understand what they're looking for and why. And then my second book, A Song of Light and Fire, is really a dive into what is eternity and what does it look like? And my goal wasn't just to tell people about heaven or hell. I wrote it actually in a narrative format, like a story. But to take people there and let them experience the loneliness of choosing a path of solitude and independence versus the path of joy and experiencing heaven in all its delights. And so I would encourage people, um, to just go online, visit my website or to just visit wherever books are sold and take your pick.

00:23:17 Nazish: Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. And I will make sure to include all these details into the show notes. Thank you so much for joining us today on Inner Peace, Better Health. And it was wonderful talking to you.

00:23:32 Cory Rosenke: Thank you so much, I appreciate it.

00:23:35 Nazish: And your listeners, if this episode touched something tender in you. Don't rush past it. Maybe take one slow breath and ask yourself, what is my soul trying to tell me right now? And if you want more such grounded conversations, more human calming, please follow the show and share this episode with someone who's quietly searching too. Thank you to all of you for spending time with us on inner peace, better health. Until next time, be kind to your inner world.