1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,920 Hey everybody, welcome to Podcast Answers, the podcast that answers all of your questions. 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:13,280 We like to help people grow and start a podcast with answering any questions that they have 3 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:14,280 along the way. 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:20,280 So, if you have any questions for us here at Podcast Answers, feel free to go over to 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:25,680 podcastanswers.com slash contact and we will try to answer those on the upcoming episode. 6 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:31,840 Today, we have the creator of an app called Podfans with us for an interview about this 7 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:37,520 new app and how it's integrating some of the new Podcasting 2.0 standards. 8 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:41,320 So without further ado, let's go ahead and welcome Sam to the show. 9 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,280 Hey everybody, welcome to the Podcast Answers show. 10 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:45,560 I have Sam Sethi with me. 11 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:46,560 Welcome to the show, Sam. 12 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:47,560 Hey, thanks, Andy. 13 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:48,560 How are you? 14 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:49,560 Hi. 15 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:50,560 I'm doing real good. 16 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:56,040 We've kind of known each other for a little bit now through the Podcasting 2.0 initiative 17 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:02,040 here, but can you take me through a little bit of history on what your podcast, how you 18 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:06,480 become a podcaster yourself and just how that worked for you? 19 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:11,760 Yeah, so a friend of mine probably a decade ago, maybe a little bit less, but about a 20 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:12,760 decade ago. 21 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:17,360 So if I was doing a radio show with me and I went, oh, never done a radio show. 22 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:22,560 So I went and did that and it was an 80s radio show and I promise you, after you've played 23 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,800 Shalimar for the 50th time, you really are bored of the 80s. 24 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,400 It doesn't get any better. 25 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:32,840 I love the 80s music, but on repeat, it's not the greatest thing ever. 26 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:38,720 So I then started a show called Sam Talks Technology and my background is technology. 27 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:39,720 I love it. 28 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:45,840 And so this was a radio show just about technology, but what I decided to do was turn it into 29 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,720 a podcast because no offense to the people who live around where I live, but they're 30 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,080 not really that technical. 31 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:57,120 And so I wanted to invite the head of Alexa and Otter and whatever. 32 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:04,840 And so I was doing Skype calls at the time and then Zoom calls before the pandemic. 33 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:05,840 And it was great. 34 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:10,600 I could record them and I created a website called Sam Talks Tech and it all worked. 35 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,320 I did over 100 shows. 36 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,360 And that's where I learned to podcast really. 37 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:20,200 I made every mistake that we all make, you know, was it the right mic? 38 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:21,200 How long was it? 39 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,200 You know, the voice was wrong. 40 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:24,200 Everything was wrong. 41 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:29,600 But through that process of learning, I got better and better and hopefully got to the 42 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,840 point where people could listen to it properly. 43 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,080 But that was that. 44 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:41,520 And then the pandemic hit and I stupidly for some unknown reason decided, hey, why don't 45 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,920 we just do a conference then online and having not done a podcast conference before I've 46 00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:52,800 done many other conferences, I did one online and we found a platform and we it was pretty 47 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,880 rough, but it worked. 48 00:02:54,880 --> 00:03:01,840 And I invited Kara Swisher and I invited George the poet who was a British award winning 49 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:08,600 podcaster at the time and an unknown guy called James Cridland, somebody whoever he was, a 50 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:09,600 few other people. 51 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:14,800 It was great and we did two of those, you know, I think about five, six hundred people 52 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,640 turned up to each one, which was nice. 53 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:19,640 And they were paid events. 54 00:03:19,640 --> 00:03:22,920 So, you know, if we had made them free, I'm sure we would have got more people. 55 00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:28,680 Anyway, they worked and then a couple of weeks after the first one, I thought, you know what, 56 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,760 let's ping James Cridland, see if he wants to do something with me. 57 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:36,640 And we started something called Podland, which was the name that I came up with. 58 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:42,120 And yeah, you know, again, the first two or three shows of those were really awful. 59 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:46,960 If you go back and listen to episodes one, series one, episodes one, two and three of 60 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:53,160 series one, you'll hear James and me not knowing what the roles were for each of us. 61 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:59,040 And what I mean by that is James is the goat for podcasting and really, you know, I was 62 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:00,040 novice. 63 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,280 So the best position we should have taken and we do now in many ways. 64 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:08,200 If you listen to the show, I asked the dumb questions and James gives the smart answer. 65 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:09,520 That's fundamentally my role. 66 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,360 I'm just like, James, so what do you think of this then? 67 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,320 And then he goes off in a monologue and I'm going, wow, that's brilliant. 68 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,120 Now, James, what do you think of this? 69 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,320 So fundamentally, I can be replaced by anyone, but James is the person who gives all the 70 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:22,320 best answers. 71 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:23,320 Yeah. 72 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,000 And you guys, it sounds like you have a good friendship that you've built a good friendship 73 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:27,000 through that. 74 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,600 And have changed the name of the podcast now to Pod News. 75 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:31,840 I'll tell you why. 76 00:04:31,840 --> 00:04:32,840 I'll tell you why. 77 00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:37,920 You know, we, we did a year of podcasting, James is in Australia, I'm in just outside 78 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,440 of London and fundamentally we'd never met. 79 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:48,040 So a podcast movement in LA last year, not the one in Vegas that's just gone, James and 80 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:49,600 I met for the first time. 81 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,400 And what was the weirdest thing about it is I have no idea, Andy, how tall you are. 82 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,680 You could be seven foot two or five foot four. 83 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,760 I don't know looking at this box that's in front of me, right? 84 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:04,560 So I had this experience where James turns up and we meet in the lobby and I just looked 85 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,680 up, he's about six foot one, six foot two, and I'm like, oh, wow, you're bigger than 86 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:09,680 I thought. 87 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,200 And so that, I think he went, you're smaller than I thought. 88 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,640 But that said and done. 89 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:19,160 I also think part of the name change was protecting James's brand. 90 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:24,160 He didn't know me from Adam, he didn't know whether, if he'd called it Pod News Weekly 91 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:30,360 Review from day one, would I have been awful and therefore I could have destroyed his other 92 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:31,840 brand Pod News Daily. 93 00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:36,200 So I think it was a safe net that gave him, you know, we'll call it Podlan for now and 94 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:37,960 if it's crap, we can get rid of it. 95 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:39,960 And if it's any good, we'll rename it. 96 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:40,960 Sure. 97 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:41,960 Thankfully, he renamed it. 98 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:42,960 Yep. 99 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:43,960 Yep. 100 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:44,960 And you guys are doing that. 101 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,320 You do weekly and kind of go over all the news in podcasting. 102 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,040 So yeah, I appreciate that show. 103 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:54,160 But you got, you have created a podcast listening website. 104 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:55,160 You're just into that now. 105 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,920 So can you tell me a little bit about, about pod fans? 106 00:05:57,920 --> 00:05:58,920 Yeah. 107 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:06,840 So pod fans was probably some, a couple of people came to me with an idea. 108 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:11,800 Not the platform so much, but the idea of creating podcasts with celebrities and advertising. 109 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:12,800 Nothing new. 110 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:13,800 Nothing new at all. 111 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:18,120 And I just rolled my eyes and I went, oh, no, not another one of those podcasts, please. 112 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:19,120 Right. 113 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,240 There wasn't need to hear another celebrity endorse another product. 114 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:23,240 Right. 115 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:28,560 So I wasn't really interested and then they sort of got me interested and then I went 116 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:36,240 going to the details, but we decided to go our separate ways and I put, I parked, it 117 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:37,240 was called viral tribe. 118 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:42,280 I parked on the side and I have River Radio, which is a radio station as well, which I 119 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:44,960 started in the middle of COVID for some strange reason. 120 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:45,960 Yeah. 121 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,400 All the best ideas come in the middle of COVID, right? 122 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:49,400 Exactly. 123 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:50,400 I was bored. 124 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:51,400 I didn't know what else to do. 125 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:52,400 So let's start a radio station. 126 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:53,400 Right. 127 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:57,560 So I went back to doing the radio station and then, but this little itch kept scratching 128 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:58,560 at me. 129 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:03,000 You know, it was like, oh, you know, that platform, that looked quite good and what if you extended 130 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:08,200 that and what if you took it one stage further and whatever? 131 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,080 And I was like, yeah, let's do that. 132 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,200 So me and my developer, there's two of us who do it. 133 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:19,800 We basically have been building it for best part of seven months now. 134 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,280 And I think that's where we're at. 135 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:28,040 We demoed it in Vegas and got some really good feedback from people, you know, this 136 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:29,040 doesn't work. 137 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:30,040 That doesn't work basically. 138 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:31,040 That's right. 139 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:32,600 That's fundamentally the feedback you get. 140 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:33,600 Now, don't like that. 141 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:34,600 Why is that there? 142 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:40,520 And I'm going, why aren't you pressing that button now, what it's in front of you? 143 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:46,240 And so that's partly, you know, coming out, coming out of your blinkers when you're developing 144 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:51,720 into the real world of people is often painful, but fun. 145 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:53,680 And so, yeah, we've been adjusting. 146 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,520 We hopefully will have it ready. 147 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:02,840 Well, what we're doing now is we've finished all the features. 148 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:07,440 We have, we are feature complete, but one thing that's being done today and I can talk 149 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:08,440 about that in a minute. 150 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:13,200 But other than that, the, it's a, it's a progressive web app. 151 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:18,600 And what I mean by that, a PWA is that we've designed it for the desktop and then it will 152 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:23,380 degrade gracefully down for an iPad or an iPhone. 153 00:08:23,380 --> 00:08:25,560 We aren't going to go native. 154 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,880 We didn't want to go native. 155 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,800 It meant having to build three different development platforms otherwise. 156 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:32,800 And that's crazy. 157 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:33,800 Right. 158 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:34,800 Yeah. 159 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,160 It's easier to do it if you can do one thing for every, every location. 160 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:38,160 Yeah. 161 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:44,080 And actually iOS 16.4, which came out a few weeks ago has added pretty much all the features 162 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:51,400 that iOS native apps would have given me like home screen, home screen icons, red dot notifications, 163 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:52,400 push notifications. 164 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:58,920 So all of that was what you would have got in an iOS app has now become available as 165 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,280 a desktop app and a PWA. 166 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,440 So very happy on that. 167 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,200 So that's what we're working on for the next couple of weeks. 168 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:12,520 And that will be the beta and then the London podcast show is May the 23rd. 169 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:20,280 You'll see me walking around in this very lilacly looking buddy and basically, yeah, 170 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:25,880 handing out as many flyers and invites and come and join us type notifications. 171 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:26,880 Awesome. 172 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,880 So what makes your listening web app different from any other app? 173 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,000 Can you talk a little bit about, a little bit about value for value? 174 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,880 So if our listeners don't know, you know, can you explain what value for value is and 175 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,760 what makes pod fans different than any other app? 176 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:40,760 Yes. 177 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:46,760 So value for value is a, is a term that Adam Curry uses, the pod father, as he's known, 178 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:53,200 who, it's really a way of saying, look, I will pay you for the content you produce at 179 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,320 a value that I perceive to be what it's worth. 180 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:57,320 Right. 181 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:58,320 Now that works very well. 182 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,240 And look, we, we, we have this in everyday society. 183 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:05,040 I say to people in Britain, certainly, and I don't know the rules in America, but in 184 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,400 Britain, the price tag on the item of clothing you buy is an offer price. 185 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:11,520 It's not a final price. 186 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:15,160 And if we weren't so British, we could actually go up to the counter and go, I will pay you 187 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:16,160 20 pounds less. 188 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:17,160 Yeah. 189 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:18,160 But we don't. 190 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:19,160 So we're so British. 191 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:20,160 We go, Oh no. 192 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:21,160 Absolutely. 193 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:22,160 64.99. 194 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:23,160 Absol bargain. 195 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:24,920 I'll pay that straight away, sir. 196 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,920 And the reality is I could just go off and barter, but we don't. 197 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:33,160 And it's that fundamental value for value model, which is the host sets their price 198 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:38,160 or their perceived value on the listener, then we'll agree with it, disagree with it. 199 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:39,680 And that's the two states. 200 00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:41,600 Now why, why, why do we do that? 201 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,560 I want to just take a step back because I think people should understand, look, I'm 202 00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:51,040 fairly old and I've been around the internet quite a while, in fact, most of it. 203 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:55,400 And when I was the product manager at Netscape, I do remember going up to people and saying, 204 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:56,400 it's called a browser. 205 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:01,840 Yeah, you'll get it, HTTP colon forward slash w w stick with it, Andy. 206 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:03,440 It's, it's, it's useful. 207 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:05,320 No, no search engines yet. 208 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:06,320 We'll get there. 209 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,840 So anyway, it was all this sort of vocabulary that was really difficult. 210 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:17,480 But Mark Andreessen, who was one of the guys behind Netscape that in fact the CEO and founder, 211 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,640 he really wished at the time that he'd created a micropayment system, this ability to pay 212 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:27,760 small micro amounts, not with a credit card, because then you get gatekeepers and payment 213 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,600 right fees and everything else. 214 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:31,600 So he wished he'd done it. 215 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:32,600 He never did. 216 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:37,360 And in, in respect of that, we ended up with likes, hearts, thumbs up on all other sorts 217 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:38,360 of rubbish. 218 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:42,720 And then we ended up with advertising as a way of supporting digital content. 219 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:48,120 Now that's the model that's existed for the best part of 20 years on the internet. 220 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:53,280 And what we're seeing now is this new thing, cryptocurrency, if you want to call it, but 221 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:54,280 it's called Bitcoin. 222 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,880 You know this, but I'm just sort of laying it out for people. 223 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:04,040 And a 100 millionth of a Bitcoin is known as a sat by, and that's because the inventor 224 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:05,880 of Bitcoin was Satoshi. 225 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:12,280 So a sat is such a small micro amount, you know, a thousand sat sounds a lot, do I need 226 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:13,280 to take a mortgage out? 227 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:18,100 Should I go to the bank manager first, you know, and that's probably less than one cent. 228 00:12:18,100 --> 00:12:24,800 So what we have now is a micro payment peer to peer system. 229 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,840 So there's no gateways in between, no third parties. 230 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:34,480 And it allows content creators to create a set of value for their content and pod fans 231 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:39,240 is doing it with podcasting to begin, but we will be doing it with music and video and 232 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,440 books eventually. 233 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:46,160 And the user and the listener can change that value if they so wish. 234 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,520 So they could say, no, I'm going to give you zero, don't value anything you're producing 235 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:50,520 Andy. 236 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:51,520 Dats and twos. 237 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:52,520 No, you're getting zero. 238 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:53,520 Forget it. 239 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:54,520 Not another. 240 00:12:54,520 --> 00:13:00,320 Or Andy sets it, you know, you set it at 100 sats per minute, which is a streaming sat. 241 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,920 And I go, Andy, no, no, no, no, that's far too low. 242 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,920 Very generous of you, but I'm going to double that to 200 sats per minute. 243 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,620 And I could do that as well. 244 00:13:08,620 --> 00:13:12,880 So it's a bar to exchange system using a micro currency payment system. 245 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:14,520 And yes, we've implemented that. 246 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:23,080 Um, I'm glad to say that took a little bit of brain power, but we've got that. 247 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:30,080 We've also got, uh, booster grounds, which are fundamentally comments with a payment. 248 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,480 So if you're listening to a podcast, you go, wow, that's a brilliant piece. 249 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,440 Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to congratulate you boost a comment or I'm going to write 250 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,640 a comment and I'm going to pay a certain amount with it. 251 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,560 And we've added zaps as well. 252 00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:48,000 Much of the dislike of some, um, a zap is basically a like. 253 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:53,360 It's no different, but, but it's, uh, it's worth 10 sats at the moment in our system. 254 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,000 It's a fundamentally, I, I like what you're doing. 255 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,160 I don't want to write a comment, but I'll just give you a quick zap to say, well done, 256 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:00,160 Andy. 257 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:01,160 Yeah. 258 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:02,360 So that's a little bit about where we are. 259 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:03,360 Great. 260 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:04,360 That's that sounds good. 261 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:12,840 Um, so, so as me as a creator, I can put some, some code into my feed or, uh, whatever, 262 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:17,760 and then be able to get the payments through, through the listens and you take a portion 263 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:18,960 of that for providing the service. 264 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:19,960 And that's great. 265 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:20,960 That's awesome. 266 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,080 That's one of the things that I like about the podcasting 2.0 initiative and the streaming 267 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:30,320 sats is the ability to, you know, as a, as a creator of an app, uh, you can go ahead 268 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,600 and set that you're going to take a little bit of a fee for that. 269 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:33,600 And so you get paid. 270 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,320 Everyone gets paid in this where, you know, in the previous model, it was, you know, Apple 271 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,360 or Spotify taking some money, but we didn't really see a whole lot of it or any of it. 272 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:47,560 And then as an app creator, you paid 99 cents for the app, maybe, but you don't get a reoccurring 273 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:48,560 revenue. 274 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:54,000 And so this is a great, a great opportunity as a creator, both, uh, as a podcast creator, 275 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,880 a content creator, but then a content, you know, listening app to be able to provide, 276 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,920 to get that same reoccurring revenue. 277 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:01,920 So that's, that's great. 278 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:02,920 I love it. 279 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,160 So we, we've focused on five areas. 280 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:06,160 Okay. 281 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:10,760 Uh, discovery, interactivity, gamification, social and monetization. 282 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:12,200 Let me step through those. 283 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,840 So today, as you just said, you know, you can go on to Apple and Spotify, you listen 284 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:21,600 for free, fundamentally, if you want to have ads in Spotify or pay your subscription, but 285 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,440 fundamentally you'll listen to podcasts for free. 286 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:30,000 And as, as we both know, the, the podcast that gets no value out of that, and, and even 287 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:35,800 if you put some advertising, you've got to have 10,000 downloads, so get a decent number. 288 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:40,640 So, um, what we started off with, I sat down and said, okay, we've got them monetized 289 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,120 station part, which I just described earlier and we'll talk a little bit more about that 290 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:45,120 in detail. 291 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:50,600 But the first part, and you know, this is discovery, how do I find a new podcast, right? 292 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:55,720 You probably have three or four podcasts, maybe five, you know, in your weekly listen. 293 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:59,120 And if somebody says to you, Hey, I found this really cool new podcast. 294 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:00,120 You should listen to it. 295 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:01,120 You might give it a go. 296 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:02,120 All right. 297 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:07,240 But there isn't, or hasn't been really a good way of discovery other than, you know, Apple 298 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,320 maybe putting it in the new and noteworthy or Spotify doing the same. 299 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:15,240 So if you're lucky, yeah, well, basically not if you're lucky, if you happen, just know 300 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:16,240 the right people. 301 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:17,240 That's all it is. 302 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:18,240 Right. 303 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:24,320 Um, and you scratch their palms, um, but other than that, um, you, you, it's word of mouth. 304 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:29,840 So the first thing we've done is we've created a semantic search engine within pod fans and 305 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,240 that, that's just, it sounds grand. 306 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:33,240 Let me explain that. 307 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:38,400 It's, it's fundamentally the podcast namespace, the extension to RSS has added a whole new 308 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,840 features tags and what they call, but we call them features. 309 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,760 So I can search by the person or the host fundamentally. 310 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:50,720 I can search by location, category keyword, and we've added country as well as an extra 311 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:51,720 field. 312 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,760 And so what you might say is, Oh, I want to find everything that Andy does. 313 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:56,760 Oh, I didn't know. 314 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:57,760 I know this podcast. 315 00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:58,760 I didn't know. 316 00:16:58,760 --> 00:16:59,760 Doesn't do. 317 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:00,760 I didn't know his other one. 318 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:01,760 Great. 319 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:05,240 Oh, well, but if you don't know the title of those other podcasts and you don't know 320 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,680 how to find them, then one way would have been to put your name in. 321 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:15,760 And so with the person tag, hopefully if you've added that to your RSS feeds, then all three 322 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:17,280 of your podcasts would appear. 323 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:18,280 Great. 324 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:19,280 So discovery is a great way. 325 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,680 We've also, uh, gamified this a little bit. 326 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,320 So we don't want to take all four million podcasts. 327 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:31,320 We've said, you know what we're going to take probably the top 500,000, but there might 328 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:35,120 be a brand new podcast or there might be a podcast that we haven't thought about. 329 00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:38,840 So now what we do is we, we allow you to suggest a new podcast. 330 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:44,480 And if you suggest a podcast that isn't in our database, you get paid a hundred sats. 331 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:53,560 And then if you vote for that, cause you know, the first boat, excuse me, the first person 332 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:59,440 to vote, sorry, suggest, um, gets that a hundred sats, but the next people get 10 sats 333 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:00,440 for all voting. 334 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:01,440 Right. 335 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:02,440 Got you. 336 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,320 So we then go, and then we look in our system and go, oh yeah, that's, that looked like 337 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:06,320 it's trending. 338 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:07,320 Yeah. 339 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:11,440 We'll add that because we don't want to add every podcast, you know, we know 80% of stuff 340 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:17,400 on anchor was, hello, it's a podcast testing one, two, really don't want those. 341 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:24,160 So we've, we've gamified the search interactivity again, going back to Apple and Spotify. 342 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,160 I want to leave a comment on your podcast, right? 343 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:28,160 Can't do it. 344 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:33,200 So we've, we've added, as you, we talked about earlier booster grams, but we've also added 345 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:38,720 the ability for you to create clips for you to fundamentally begin to interact with the 346 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:39,720 podcaster. 347 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:41,720 And we've also added threaded comments. 348 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,920 So it's a feature we haven't released yet. 349 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,520 I've got the exclusive. 350 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:55,600 We, we basically, um, we, we, there's a feature in podcast and called lit live item tag, which 351 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,280 allows people to broadcast live, I know you do. 352 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:06,440 And that live show then is basically allowing people to go, oh, Andy's live, let me jump 353 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,360 on board and we can then interact. 354 00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:13,960 Well, we also wanted to do another feature, which is, uh, we will put in your profile 355 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,360 what you're currently listening to, by the way, you can turn that off in your settings. 356 00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:19,360 So it's not, it's not a default. 357 00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:22,480 I'm going to find everything he's listening to. 358 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:23,480 Really? 359 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:24,480 Wow. 360 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:25,480 Yeah. 361 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:26,480 Yeah. 362 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:31,280 So, so fundamentally in your profile, it says what you're listening to and it has a 363 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,120 little share icon next to it. 364 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:38,160 If I then wanted to click on it, I jumped to the exact same second that you're listening 365 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:43,280 and we then co-listen nice, fundamentally, I can then go, hey, and start a conversation. 366 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:48,200 So we, the podcast doesn't have to be live, but the listeners could be live together. 367 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,280 That's a great idea. 368 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:56,040 So yeah, so that's coming in the next two weeks that your future will be live and what's 369 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,040 really cool. 370 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:58,040 I really like that. 371 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:02,760 It's like, hey, I want to listen with you and yeah, and then we can come in and we can 372 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,080 boost and we're thread together and whatever. 373 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,440 And that makes it much more interesting, I think, and you can invite friends to join 374 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,360 you as well to come into that conversation. 375 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:12,360 Yeah. 376 00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:15,720 That sounds a little bit like the Apple's, uh, share, I forget what they call it, but 377 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,720 the sharing where you can share play, I think. 378 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:18,720 Yeah. 379 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:19,720 Yeah. 380 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,400 That's a great idea. 381 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,680 So that's the, a bit of the interactivity. 382 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:29,320 The gamification, we, we fundamentally believe in the value for value model. 383 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,960 So yes, you pay to listen to podcasts. 384 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:33,960 You don't have to. 385 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:39,360 You can put it to zero, as I said, but if you, as a listener, start to create value 386 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:43,760 as well, so you're sharing clips, you're sharing boosts, you're doing, inviting friends into 387 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:49,160 the system, then we give you in the gamification model points as well and we then can create 388 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:50,160 badges and leaderboards. 389 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,240 And of course, you then can become a super fan. 390 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:58,160 And one of the things we haven't talked about, but let me do it now is there's something 391 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:05,120 called splits and, um, splits are the ability in the payment model to say. 392 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:09,360 So let's say you were listening to James and I on pod news and you went, Hey, I love what 393 00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:10,360 you guys are doing. 394 00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:13,320 Here's a row of ducks, two, two, two sats, right? 395 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,600 And we go, thank you so much, Shandy. 396 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,480 And then it goes 50, 50 split and it does that automatically in the system. 397 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,920 So James and I get half each brilliant. 398 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,760 We've also within pod fans done it so that you can include your guests, you can include 399 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:31,280 editors, you can include writers and authors, so you can split it in any million different 400 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,800 ways that you want to do it and the system will work it out for you. 401 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:39,880 But what we also wanted to do was have the super fan get a split. 402 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:46,680 But if you are doing lots and lots of work for a podcast that you really love, and it's 403 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:51,960 demonstrable because we can measure every time you share something, every time you clip 404 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,520 something, every time you comment, then we go, Hey, do you know what? 405 00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:00,840 It's the host can then say, Hey, Andy, thank you so much for going back to that thing we 406 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,640 said earlier, word of mouth discovery, sharing it with your network. 407 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:05,640 Thank you so much. 408 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,720 You know, I'm going to give you 5% split and you can then put the super fan into the splits 409 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:10,720 as well. 410 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:15,200 So not only the host get it, not only the producers, the editors, whatever, and guests, 411 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,200 but you can also bring super fans. 412 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:18,520 So that's pretty sweet. 413 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:23,320 So that would be in your system on top of the split that I would already have in my 414 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,240 RSS feed if I had that in the feed. 415 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,240 Yeah. 416 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:32,920 So one of the things that we have had to do as an app developer is go, do we wait for 417 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,840 the hosts to provide the features? 418 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,080 Or do we provide some of them ourselves? 419 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:39,080 Sure. 420 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:44,360 So one of the things that happened, I think last week, it's that fresh was something called 421 00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:45,360 the pod role. 422 00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:47,960 And I know that you've implemented a pod role. 423 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:48,960 Yep. 424 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:49,960 So what is a pod role? 425 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:50,960 It's like a blog role. 426 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:55,560 It's basically your personal recommendation of other podcasts that I might be interested 427 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,840 in if I listen to your podcast. 428 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:58,840 Great. 429 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,320 Another good word of mouth, way of discovery. 430 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,320 That hasn't been implemented by hosts. 431 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,280 So I'm guessing you hand rolled that yourself and add it to the RSS feed. 432 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:09,400 James did the same. 433 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:15,880 The guys at Buzzcast did the same and we can suck that in through your RSS and we've exposed 434 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,280 that in our app. 435 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:19,280 Great. 436 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,080 But not all features have been implemented. 437 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:27,800 So for example, Buzzcast haven't implemented wallets and value payments. 438 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,440 Other podcasters haven't done other things. 439 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,960 So the way that we've done it, we've said, look, we will pull your RSS and we will look 440 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:39,960 at all the things that you currently support and we will enable that from your RSS feed. 441 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:47,080 But on top of that, we're going to build features that we think should be supported and later 442 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,160 on maybe your host will catch up. 443 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:56,880 So a good example might be your podcast person tag hasn't been set in your RSS feed because 444 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,240 your host doesn't support that tag. 445 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:05,720 But when you claim your podcast and you become the creator and verified creator, you can 446 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:11,640 go into an admin system on our podcast platform, pod fans, and you can then go and add the 447 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,920 person tag locally. 448 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,160 Now what will happen is when your host provides the person tag, you might go into your host 449 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:19,720 and then change it there. 450 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:26,040 We will respect your RSS and then we'll overwrite the local version that we've kept. 451 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,960 What we've said is we will add new and newer features that we think are appropriate to our 452 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:36,240 platform and then when your host catches up with those features, we will overwrite our 453 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,920 local feature and that's how we're working. 454 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:39,920 Great. 455 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,440 Yeah, that sounds really cool. 456 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,960 Anything else that our listeners should know about and how they can get involved in this? 457 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:47,960 Yeah. 458 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,280 So the last part is the S social. 459 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:57,240 One of the things that we implemented about a week ago is the new Twitter API just opened 460 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:02,120 and thank you, Elon, it took you forever, but you got there eventually. 461 00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:08,960 To be fair, it's not a great API, but that said and done, what we can do now is we can 462 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:14,520 go and look at your following, who you follow, not how many people follow you, but who you 463 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:19,000 follow, and we can pull that into pod fans. 464 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:25,720 Now what's cool about that is we will give you 10 free invites to begin with and those 465 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:30,280 invites, then you can go out to your 10 friends who are podcasting friends and invite them 466 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:31,800 to join your pod fans. 467 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:38,080 Now each of your friends gets a value, a bit like a collection of cards like we used to 468 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:44,400 call them in the UK, Panini soccer cards, best kicker, best header of the ball, best 469 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:49,200 whatever, right, and then have a point system on them, well, we've done that by saying, 470 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,840 how many followers does that person have, okay, that's the value in sats that we will 471 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:54,840 give this person. 472 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,400 So this person's worth 600 sats or 400 sats. 473 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:03,200 And if you invite them, you get 100 sats for inviting them. 474 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,680 So creating value, you get some value. 475 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:11,400 But then when they join, you get the value of their followers, so the value that we've 476 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:12,400 placed them. 477 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:17,560 So you can get 600 sats for one person, 700 for one, and 380 for another, right? 478 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:18,560 Got you. 479 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,360 So you get these 10 invites and you get sats. 480 00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:27,440 We're also, we're just doing it now, we've also put splits into that. 481 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,320 I know we're mental, right? 482 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:35,680 But fundamentally what it means is that you invite a friend and he's worth 700 sats. 483 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,520 You can then click a toggle button which then says 50-50 split. 484 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,840 So when he joins, he gets half the sats and you get half the sats. 485 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:48,800 So you can be nice to your friends or you can take all of it for myself, I'm not sharing. 486 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,080 So it's really your call, what you want to do on that. 487 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:56,280 So that interactivity brings friends into podbounds quite quickly. 488 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:01,080 But we've done something, the last couple of things, it's called an activity stream. 489 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,480 And what it is, it's just basically like a Twitter stream. 490 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,200 It shows you all the things you've done in the system. 491 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:13,960 So you might have followed two people, you might have become a fan of a new podcast, 492 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,640 you might have played three episodes, whatever you've done in the system, we will have a 493 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,720 stream of content that tracks you. 494 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:26,360 What's nice is then you can then follow people in the system who are your friends and they 495 00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:31,720 can follow you back and you can then see their activity stream and you get an aggregated 496 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,720 stream a bit like your Twitter stream of everyone in the system. 497 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:40,360 So you suddenly go, I'm going to filter this by boosts, who's done a boost this week? 498 00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:44,040 Wow, Sam's done a hundred thousand pound boost podcasting index on that episode. 499 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,120 Wow, I think I should go and listen to that then. 500 00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:52,800 So again, it's another signal or I might get, Andy's just become a fan of a new podcast. 501 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,760 Wow, why is Andy a fan of that podcast? 502 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:55,760 Let me go and have a listen to it. 503 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,560 Oh yeah, that's a really cool podcast. 504 00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,360 Let me become a fan too. 505 00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:01,160 That's a great idea. 506 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:06,080 So that's how the activity streams work and the social element of it. 507 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,360 And then the last part, as I said, we've done the monetization through. 508 00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:16,800 So when you join, one of the biggest problems with all of this technology is the terminology. 509 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:23,040 I said to you earlier, when people started hearing about browsing and HTTP and what's 510 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:30,680 a URL, I could have gone to 99 people in my pub in 2000 and said to them, do you know 511 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:31,680 what a URL is? 512 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,720 And they wouldn't have known, right? 513 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,120 And now they all do. 514 00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:38,320 And in the same way, if I said to you, what's your digital wallet? 515 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,280 Give me your lightning address and have you got an invoice? 516 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,800 You're looking at me going, you're talking Swahili again, Sam, stop it. 517 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,440 I've told you about this. 518 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:53,040 But the reality is that it's just common vocabulary that people haven't got used to yet. 519 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,560 And when they do, then it'll be easy. 520 00:28:55,560 --> 00:29:01,440 So what we do is there's an Australian guy called Edward de Bono, it's a favorite saying 521 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,440 of mine, complexity is fail, simplicity. 522 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:11,320 And what we are in the moment right now is a semi-complex moment where people don't know 523 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:16,440 what wallet to get, how do they get it, what's a sat, how do you make this payment, will 524 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,480 I lose my house and all of those things, right? 525 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,880 So we've built in some really cool things. 526 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,880 So when you first join, you get 10,000 sats when you join, part of the gamification. 527 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,280 Complete these tasks, we will reward you. 528 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,000 So you've added value to us, we'll value you back. 529 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,760 Now you've got some funny money. 530 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:41,560 You might not even know what a sat is, but what we've done, and this is again, something 531 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:48,200 unique to pod fans, we've valued every show and every episode in a unique way. 532 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:54,280 And we say that each show is worth 100 sats per minute times the time of the show gives 533 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,560 you the total value of the show. 534 00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:02,480 So an hour show might be worth 6,000 sats, great, okay, that's good or bad, I don't know. 535 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,040 So we've got a converter in there as well. 536 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,400 So you can just type in 6,000 sats and it'll tell you, and actually underneath the value, 537 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:13,200 we tell you what it is in your local currency, that's about $170, right? 538 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,040 So it's not massive. 539 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:19,400 Now you know that it's not going to break the bank and make you have to get a mortgage. 540 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:28,000 So the second thing was we do streaming sats, so 100 sats per minute, but you only pay for 541 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,160 the amount you listen to. 542 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,600 So a one hour show, you might listen to 20 minutes, in which case you're only paying 543 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,600 2,000 sats, which is cool. 544 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:41,640 So this payment of per minute sat streaming payment is the way I think it will go, not 545 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:50,160 just for podcasts, but books, films, video and music, right? 546 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:55,400 How many books, I don't know, how many books in Audible that I started and got to Chapter 547 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,160 3 and I've never listened to the rest of it, right? 548 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,880 Or I've got music tracks that I love, but I played it and then I tend to fade out at 549 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:03,880 the end, I haven't listened to it. 550 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:09,480 So but I've ended up paying for the whole value without getting the value. 551 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:14,920 And so this new model of value for value and per minute payment is where I think the internet 552 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,480 is going to go, not just for pod fans, but for everyone. 553 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:18,480 Right. 554 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,800 And I think that that's a good and it also gives you as the creator kind of an idea of, 555 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,880 okay, I see that my sats per minute are dropping off at minute 35. 556 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,440 Maybe I'm talking too long, maybe I have a non-interesting topic, like it gives you 557 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:38,120 a better signal on the content that you're producing and the value of that as your list 558 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:43,240 to your actual listeners, not just a, okay, I have, you know, 7000 downloads in this episode. 559 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,240 Yeah. 560 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,480 Downloads is a really bad metric now. 561 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:54,480 So the guys at Bumper are a really cool podcasting agency, Jonas Foost, has come up with this 562 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:55,720 thing called Listen Time. 563 00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:00,560 And it's basically a measurement of how long, as you just said, did these podcasts get listened 564 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:07,000 to because you could have 6000 downloads and only 100 people listen to it, right? 565 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:08,000 Right. 566 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,120 Well, that's the dirty secret of podcasting in some ways because now advertisers go, oh, 567 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,360 6000 downloads, 10,000 downloads, that sounds like it's great. 568 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,000 Let's put our advert there, right? 569 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,280 But the reality is the advert was 40 minutes into a 60 minute show and everyone drops off 570 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:23,280 at 35 minutes. 571 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:24,760 No one's heard that. 572 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:25,760 Yeah. 573 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:26,760 Yeah. 574 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:32,160 So not only did not, not only did 6000 people not hear it, but also of the 100 or 500 who 575 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,720 listened to it, nobody heard your ad. 576 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,400 So we've built in Listen Time into the system. 577 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,360 We've built in value paid. 578 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:45,000 So as a listener, you get your own dashboard as well, which is how, how much have I listened 579 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:49,240 to this month, break it down by months, which podcast, how much am I paying? 580 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,600 But also as a creator, you get a dashboard of that as well. 581 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:57,360 So there's lots and lots of stuff in there, I'm afraid to say, but you know, it's taking 582 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,640 this time, but I'm really excited. 583 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:00,640 Yeah. 584 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:01,640 Yeah. 585 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,600 And you're in alpha going to be beta soon, is that correct? 586 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:05,600 Okay. 587 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:11,320 So I think by the, we've set a goal for the end of April to be an open beta. 588 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:12,320 Yeah. 589 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:13,320 Okay. 590 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,280 And so what we're trying to do, you know, if you think of everything I've just explained, 591 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,280 there are a lot of moving parts in that, right? 592 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:20,280 Right. 593 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:21,280 Yeah. 594 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:27,640 The fundamental complexity of it means that, you know, we made a couple of, oh, that didn't 595 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,880 quite work or what, how'd you do that? 596 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,320 And also one of the things we're doing at the moment in this last couple of weeks is 597 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,520 building a help system on top. 598 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:40,840 So when you, when you first sign in, you don't know what you're earning and why you're earning 599 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:45,520 stuff and where am I now in the system and how do I start and where do I go first? 600 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:46,520 Right? 601 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:47,520 Sure. 602 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:52,120 So we've built this sort of last help system we're testing now where you go in and it says, 603 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,840 right, you've earned so many sats so far for onboarding and then, hey, complete these 604 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,840 next six tasks now, more sats. 605 00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:58,840 Oh, okay. 606 00:33:58,840 --> 00:33:59,840 Let me try and do that then. 607 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,120 And then then you go to another page and I said, on this page, you can do these seven 608 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,120 things if you want. 609 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:05,120 Right? 610 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:06,120 And it explains what's going on. 611 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,480 I think that's the challenge we've got. 612 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:14,720 We've built something so powerful that I worry that we've over engineered it maybe in some 613 00:34:14,720 --> 00:34:20,800 ways where people won't know where to go to hit what button to get it to work. 614 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:26,760 I mean, one good example, last example, it came from Adam Curry was this requirement 615 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,000 of, I want to support your show even if I don't listen to your show. 616 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,400 And it was like, what do you mean, well, I might be away on holiday, but I still want 617 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:35,400 to support you. 618 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:36,400 Right. 619 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:42,920 So in your profile settings, you can, there's two features, one of the features is you can 620 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,640 go into your profile settings and say, right, I'm going to put 100,000 sats. 621 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,520 That's my budget for this month, right? 622 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:49,520 I'm not spending any more. 623 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,400 I've promised the wife no more sats. 624 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:59,760 So you put 100,000 in and as you're streaming through episodes and you're paying whatever 625 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,840 you want to pay, that's taking out to the budget. 626 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,400 It doesn't go to your full wallet. 627 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,760 Now, what you might then say is I want to become a fan of three podcasts. 628 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,280 I don't need to be a fan of every podcast, I'm just the three podcast and becoming a 629 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,240 fan is like subscribing to the podcast. 630 00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:20,000 So you get notifications and new episodes, but you can toggle the button in your profile 631 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:25,880 settings from streaming to support and when you turn it to support. 632 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:32,360 So if that 6,000 sats full value episode that we described earlier is downloaded, instead 633 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:38,360 of you, even if you only listened to 20 minutes of it, you said, I want to support this creator. 634 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,440 It pays the full 6,000 in advance. 635 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:47,200 So you'll say, I don't care how much I consume, I'm valuing you and supporting you to the 636 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,000 full extent of the value that you say this episode's worth. 637 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,200 And I will do that when your next episode turns up and the one after and the one after 638 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:56,200 and the one after. 639 00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:02,480 So being able to support the podcast that you're a fan of is a cool feature, we think. 640 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,480 And all the other podcasts where you're not a fan of, but you just want to listen to them, 641 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:10,160 you can still pay them a streaming sat or you can pay them nothing. 642 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:11,160 Sure. 643 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:12,160 That's great. 644 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:17,000 And where can our listeners see the site and get to know more? 645 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:24,240 So come and visit us at podfans.fm and come along and we'll get you through the wait list 646 00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:26,720 and we'll get you on boarded. 647 00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:27,720 So yeah, thank you. 648 00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:28,720 Awesome. 649 00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:29,720 Well, thanks again for joining us today. 650 00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:34,440 I really appreciate the explanation and again, just telling our listeners and showing them 651 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,480 this new idea of value for value. 652 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,800 Thanks, Andy. 653 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,240 All right. 654 00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:42,240 That was a great interview. 655 00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:48,200 Thanks, Sam, again, for that interview on the podcast answers podcast about your new 656 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:49,680 app, Podfans. 657 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:54,240 So guys, if you've enjoyed this podcast and you're listening in a new podcasting app, 658 00:36:54,240 --> 00:37:00,080 go ahead and hit the podcast boost button there and send us a message. 659 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,040 Send us some satoshis like Sam was talking about in his interview. 660 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:09,120 If you don't have that, you can always go to podfanswers.com slash buy me a coffee and 661 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:10,920 support us that way too. 662 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:17,960 So guys, with that, I will see you next week as we answer more questions about podcasts. 663 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,000 Have a great week.