Welcome to the six Figure Business Mastery Podcast, where every week Kirsten and

Jeanie dive into the essential topics to fuel your business growth, from

copywriting to course creation mindset, to video marketing, they've got you covered.

Tune in for expert guest interviews on all things marketing and

business, and learn how to work on your business, not just in it.

So get ready to unlock your business potential and take it to the next level.

Are you speaking to buyers who are just browsing or ones that

are actually ready to buy?

Knowing the difference between content and copy can change everything.

And I'm excited that we have a friend with us.

Her name is Lynn Horowitz from Lynn h Marketing, and she is

gonna help us understand the difference between copy and content.

So welcome to the show, Lynn.

Thanks for being here.

Thank you.

I'm super excited to be here and um, I look forward to our chat.

So, Lynn, tell us a little bit about your journey.

How did you get into helping people write copy and content?

Uh, I always love to hear people's journey stories.

Sure.

It's, uh, it's never a straight line, right?

Everyone always has a few twists and turns in their lives.

Um, I have spent about 20 years as an interior designer, and I've spent

my whole life as a storyteller.

My first degree was in communication.

I thought I was gonna go down the journalism track.

Um, and then I decided to shift into corporate communication and, um,

took a job in a hotel to understand the operation side and loved it.

So I ended up working as an executive housekeeper for 10 years and

working on the story in the hotel to make sure that our guests had

an exceptional guest experience.

Uh, I then segued and got a degree in interior design and

started designing for hotels.

So now I was getting really involved, um, in the concept and the development

and again, that, that story, right?

So because a hotel is emotion and you have to connect with people

on their, their emotions, um, for it to be impactful and memorable.

This was before Instagram and um, and really how you marketed

was for people to go home.

Tell stories about their great stay at your hotel.

I then moved back to New York City and started a residential interior design

company, and now it's getting personal.

Now I'm talking to couples and families and really trying to

understand who they are and what they want their space to feel like.

So my storytelling has always been, uh, more in the physical world, but it's

still about making that connection.

And using my skillset, listening to people, understanding people, recognizing

their fears, wants, needs and desires.

Translating that into an A design project, into a physical environment,

and now I'm doing that with the words.

So it's the same skillset.

I'm still listening for the same things.

I'm still interpreting, and I'm still trying to make sure that the words that

I'm writing are authentic to my client and also impactful to their client.

So I love it.

Just a sort of natural, uh, transition for me and it's a great opportunity

to really help other interior designers, which is predominantly

most of, um, my clients at this point.

Uh, designers, people who work in the home en environment, decor

improvement, those sorts of areas.

I get that world.

Um, and I'm happy to help people, people grow their businesses.

It's so interesting because I think getting our messages across, like I feel

like we know what our value propositions are and we kind of know what our

mission statements are, but to really communicate that is so challenging.

And I know Jeanie and I always joke about the fact that as business

partners, we get along so well.

The only time we're like six year olds bickering is when

we have to write sales copy.

And so it's very fascinating.

But you know, tell us a little bit about what it's like to work with you

when you're trying to help your client figure out their customer journey so

that you can figure out what content to write for them and what the stages are.

Yeah, I ask a ton of questions.

Um, and that's how I get the information.

So because I'm listening to the words that you use, and I'm

looking for your personality so that I can write authentically.

And then what's really important is understanding what result you want.

Because each message has to have intention and it has to be

tied to a very specific result.

So when we talk about the buyer's journey, right, it is truly a journey.

And the bigger the ask, the longer the journey.

So we go from your unaware clients and customers to very aware, ready to buy.

There's so many steps in between there.

So unaware is, you know, they may not know you at all, may not your

business, your company, your brand.

Some people may not even know they have a problem.

That you are here to solve.

So we have to kind of identify that problem, agitated it a little bit, and

then start talking about solutions, right?

And then it's a question of being able to explain and, and again emotionally connect

with people so that they see that how you solve their problem is different from the

hundred other people that do what you do.

So you're always building that connection and you're always trying

to meet people where they are.

That takes time and it takes different steps.

And that's where content and copywriting differ.

So content is sort of at the beginning of the journey, right?

Because we do business with people who we know, like, and trust.

But you have to build that.

It takes time and it takes several different touch points to do that.

And I think even now, more so than ever where there's so much noise.

There's so much content, we're bombarded constantly.

It's even harder and it takes longer to kind of rise above and stand out.

So that's where I come in because I'll asking you, you

know, what result do you want?

What are you currently doing?

And then I can help you figure out what we need to do to have a bigger

impact and get your buyer to the other end of the country, which is.

Very aware.

You've overcome their objections and they're ready to buy.

That's the copywriting.

Yeah.

Right.

Do you find it difficult, you were talking about, you know, how a business

owner explains how they solve the problem, which is a little bit different.

Than everyone else.

I feel like that can be such a big challenge.

And you hear people like, well, I've got great customer service.

Well, you assume everybody you're gonna work with has great customer service.

And in this day and age of reading people's Google reviews, right, I feel

like that's a very low bar for, you know, how you are separating yourself.

So tell us a little bit about how people can.

Think about solving a problem differently or showcasing a

different value proposition.

Um, and you work with a lot of designers.

Do some of them have different value propositions that you guys have crafted?

Absolutely.

And it's a great question because that is how you stand out and it is difficult.

Um, and it takes digging.

It's just, it's your personality and it's your approach and your process.

So we're always talking about what your process is.

And it, and, and then it's relating it to the client and really also

listening to what will help them be comfortable to make the decision.

Case studies are a fabulous tool because you're showing a result.

You're showing it in an individual personalized way for that

particular, uh, company or client that you've solved their problem.

And different case studies are gonna resonate with different

potential future clients.

Someone's gonna hear something and it's not what you said because you're right.

I can say I have great customer service, but when one of my clients is

saying it, and this is how this, you know, provided this service, it lands

differently and it has a bigger impact.

So I'm always all about testimonials, case studies.

Uh, white papers, right?

That content is about creating you as a thought leader.

Mm-hmm.

And you have to be willing to take a stand and have an opinion and risk

some people disagreeing with you.

And that's okay, right?

Because not everyone is gonna be your perfect client.

That's how you find your perfect client.

It's fascinating.

I think we all wanna work with, you know, we wanna be liked, right?

It's a general rule.

Jeanie wants to be liked a lot more than I wanna be liked.

I'm kind of a, you know, I can be a hermit in a lot of ways, so I don't

need a lot of people to like me.

But you know, it is true, it's human nature that we want to be liked.

We want to think that, you know what we do provide such great

value, we truly help our clients.

It's almost like, well, why would someone not want to work with me?

But I do feel like that is a big, um, when people.

Step over that threshold of understanding.

Not everyone is my ideal client, and to be able to really call in and attract those

ideal clients makes a world of difference.

Because you know, like the process that you use may not be

ideal for every single person.

Maybe it's ideal for people who are extremely detail oriented or

maybe your process is great for people who are more laid back.

So when you think about like.

Your content.

You're right.

You're creating content that would attract that ideal client.

And Janie, I mean, I feel like this is something we talked about a lot of times.

Yeah.

Because our process is so different to everyone's, but

it's just articulating that.

Um, and I think that's you, earlier you talked about storytelling.

Would that be a great example or something to bring in would be storytelling?

Absolutely.

So it can be your personal journey, your personal why.

I mean, that's very compelling for people.

They get them, I get you.

Right, and you're maybe just, you know, a few steps ahead of where they wanna be.

So I talk about that, especially with coaches, um, and people that

are, are working with individuals or companies to transform lives.

You don't have to be this, you know, huge mega.

Successful person or company.

You have to be able to just share your journey, share your why, and

be, you know, willing and open about helping, wanting to help other

people along on that same journey.

I love that.

So you said earlier that I love this, people who are unaware, you're

creating content for them and, um, we're actually big advocates of video

content because I feel like that's really where your personality comes out.

Even more so than written.

I mean, written can is definitely some of it.

Um, and is a lot of the copywriting, um, part of it.

Uh, but I I, I, we love video, but we don't do a lot.

I mean, we do a lot of video for our YouTube channel and for our podcasts,

but we don't like go live in, in places that we probably could and should.

Right.

Yeah.

And um, so for companies, especially interior designers, those sort of behind

the scenes, uh, snapshots, um, and short video clips again, are very powerful,

um, because people like to see how you're handling those sorts of situations

when all of a sudden the wrong tile shows up and you're ready to install.

Okay, well that's a great.

You know, unscripted clip, but it's very powerful.

So, um, and people are uncomfortable with video, uh, often.

So, you know, I think it's very important to have, I'm starting to see

a lot more of it on people's websites.

Sometimes I'll write just the speaking.

You know, or, or say, well, you know, try this approach.

Right?

But again, it has to come out feeling natural.

It has to come out as a story.

And that's where your personality starts to shine when you're not thinking so true.

And actually, some Kirsten's best words come from our meetings with

our clients where they're asking questions and she's doing a lot

of coaching during those meetings.

And so that's when she shines.

'cause it's just natural for her.

Right.

So yeah, that's a great.

Suggestion.

Yeah, I sometimes Jeannie will say, can you say that again?

And I'm like, no, it flew out.

I think it was a download from above.

It just flew out of my mouth and I can't say it again.

And it's interesting because I feel like when we're working with clients who,

whether they're starting a traditional YouTube channel or they're starting a

video podcast, you know, they do have the resistance, I think, to being on video is,

first of all how I look and how I sound.

I think that's always.

Something that can be a challenge to get over and move and move through.

But the other thing that we find is, what do I say?

You know, and for some clients having a detailed written out script with

a teleprompter works, you know, for other people it's just like having

talking points and maybe notes about what stories they want to share.

But I think all of this, when you think about your content.

It's so important.

Like you said, video is where you build that know, like, and trust because people

get to build your, see your personality and interesting because when we think

about writing copy, you know, Jeanie and I can spend hours, we work with

professional copywriters and sometimes, like Jeanie said, I'm on a podcast.

I was on an interview a a few months back and the person asked

me a question and I said, well.

We're not a marketing agency and we're not an outsourcing agency.

You know, we have programs where we truly, truly coach our clients, but

then we pair them with trained virtual assistants to take care of the task.

That's how we're very different.

I had never said it that way ever before.

It was like, so sometimes I think that, you know, when you, when

you're talking to someone, if you.

Say something and it came out really well, try to jo it down or try to remember it

because again, I, I think when we sit down to write copy or we sit down to

write, you know, content outlines or, or post or whatever, we freeze up mentally.

It's like our brain just stops.

Exactly.

And sometimes I'll say to people, or I'll do it myself.

I, uh, speak and use the apps and it's typing it out.

Or I force myself, I put a timer.

And I say, just write.

Don't worry about grammar.

Don't worry about sentence structure.

Just get it down on the paper and then step away, come back to

it, and then start to massage it.

Because just like speaking, sometimes it takes a few minutes to get into your flow.

It's interesting because I feel like so many people are using AI to write

content and write copy, but without knowing how to properly prompt it.

And it's always interesting because people are always asking us, well,

AI is gonna replace all of us.

And it's like, no, I think people still wanna human connection.

You know, if I don't know what to ask Chad or I don't know anything about

copywriting and I don't know how to word it correctly, I'm gonna struggle to get an

AI tool to create great sales copy for me.

And I think that's really the difference of working with a person

who knows how sales copy is structured and why it's structured that way.

And you know, it's a lot more nuanced in it than I think people realize.

Agreed.

100%. And I think AI is a tool.

It's garbage engine out.

Yes.

Right.

So one of the things, uh, projects that I offer my clients who I call them

my DIYers, who for whatever reason, you know, want to do their content,

write their blog posts, or write their sales copy and their ads, that, and

that's fine, but I can create what I call a brand messaging guide for them.

It's something that identifies their voice, their personality, their

tone, their why, um, and then, you know, the problems, the solutions.

And I create a guide for them to then be able to upload into AI or

give to their, um, graphic designer or any other supporting, um, uh,

company that's doing work for them.

Um, and that way.

You're consistent because maybe today you're having a bad day, and so maybe

that usual, you know, positive, fun up, you know, lifting voice isn't

quite there and all of a sudden you're, you're on a deadline, you've gotta

get a post out and you're writing it.

This helps you stay consistent on track and also helps the rest of

your team, whatever your team is.

Be the, the same message.

Um, I think that's an incredible offer.

I think it it, for anyone out there listening and you're not ready to hire

a copywriter, but you need help and, and you want to use ai, definitely reach out

to them because that's something very different than what a lot of people offer.

And I think it's quite brilliant.

And like I said, because Jeannie and I are, there's two people here,

we have different, you know, origin stories, we communicate differently.

So it is always so important for us to figure out how to have that brand voice.

And Jeannie.

I feel like we've always done a good job with logos and colors and fonts, but

brand voices where we've always struggled.

Yes.

Lynn, what would you suggest to maybe a team that you'd be working with?

The two people who communicate differently?

How would you help them, you know, write their brand message?

Yeah, and I think that's a great question because, um, you person

on the team could be responsible for the blog post that goes out.

It's gonna be in their voice and it's gonna start attracting people,

um, you know, with that personality.

And then the other person could be more focused on partnerships

that they're trying to build.

And, um, and we, because that's how they communicate and that communication is

more, uh, stronger for that direction.

And so you wanna lean into your strengths and recognize it.

And that's why your partners and why you're successful, because you do bring

different things to the table and that actually helps amplify your voice so

that you are attracting these different people and different personalities.

So it's a strength.

Don't feel like it's, um.

It's a negative.

Yeah, that's hard.

Sometimes we tend to think, well, which way is right.

And you know, to your point, they're both right.

They're just right for different people.

And sometimes they're right for the same people.

Yes.

And sometimes it's testing, you know?

So if you have two different approaches, we'll test them.

Test them both.

See, see what works.

People shift also sort of mentioned that, you know, so you're trying

to meet people where they are.

Well, they might be in a different place today than they were yesterday.

So that's again, where consistency becomes so important because, uh,

especially referral based businesses like designers, realtors, where, uh,

your client may not need you again for a year, two years through years down

the road, you have to stay in front of them so that they remember you, so that

when they are ready, they can call you.

They may not remember How many times have you heard, oh yeah,

I worked with this designer.

I have to find her contact information.

Well, if you have a newsletter landing in their inbox every

month or every week, it's so easy.

Yeah.

I think people forget how important it is to carry on the conversations with

clients like, you've got a happy client.

They're the people who are gonna refer you business.

So whether it's, you know, reaching out to them personally and just

saying, you know, Hey, it's been six months since we did your design.

How's everything going?

Do you need to tweak anything?

Did you have any questions for me?

Little things like that make the biggest difference.

And then again, consistently showing up in their inbox with content,

showing up on social media and things like that continues to help

them remember you to refer you.

Exactly.

And I always tell my clients, referrals don't happen by accident.

No, you have to ask for it.

You have to make it easy, you know?

And that's how you staying in front of people.

You don't always know what piece of content actually got that person to

either buy from you or refer you.

So that's why you just keep going.

Yeah.

And these days you've gotta be in front of people so many times.

I mean, I think in the back in the day, it was like.

To be exposed to you six times now.

I heard somebody say maybe to be exposed to at least 90 minutes of your content.

So it's just getting longer and longer 'cause there's so much.

Mm-hmm.

Um, more and more content out there and more and more competition for eyeballs.

So, and that's where it's more and more important for you to be authentic and an

individual and not sound like the masses.

Yeah.

I love that.

Lynn, this has been fantastic.

You are, you're amazing.

I can see why you're such a good content and copywriter.

Thank you.

So, um, I can't thank you enough for joining us today.

I have no doubt that anybody listening has gotten a ton of benefits from

all that you've mentioned, so we loved having you on the show today.

Thank you.

I appreciate it and you asked great questions and, um, I just, um, look

forward to, um, helping everyone grow.

Thank you.

Oh, we forgot to ask you what is the best way for people to reach out to you if

they're saying, ah, Lynn, she's hitting all the points that I'm struggling

with, so I need to reach out to her.

Sure.

Uh, you can find me on LinkedIn, Lynn Horowitz, and it's, uh, H-O-R-W-I-T-Z.

So sometimes people sneak in an extra o um, and, um, or you can email me

directly, lynn h marketing@gmail.com.

I'm happy to, um, have a chat on LinkedIn.

There's a link for my calendar, um, so you can schedule a 20

minute discovery call with me.

There's no pressure.

Just ask a question, you know, we'll just talk a little strategy and,

and see, you know, what's missing or what you're trying to get more.

Um.

More traction on.

Um, I also have a, a newsletter that I write for myself for people interested in

a healthy home, and that's on Substack, so it's living hive lifestyle.substack.com.

That's my writing style.

So obviously, you know, I tailor my projects for my clients, but, um,

it's also just a, a lighthearted approach to a healthy home living.

Perfect.

And we'll put those links in the show notes.

Great.

So more benefits from listening to Lynn.

So thank you again, Lynn, for joining us today.

Thank you.

Thanks for listening to the six Figure Business Mastery Podcast.

If you enjoyed listening to this episode and you are ready to leverage video

marketing on all online platforms, or maybe even start your own video

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