1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,780 Hello and welcome back to Data Driven. In this episode, 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,839 Frank and Andy interview Aviad Harrell, managing partner 3 00:00:07,839 --> 00:00:11,445 at Team 8. Aviad sheds light on team 8's unique 4 00:00:11,445 --> 00:00:14,805 model of partnering with founders even before they have fully formed 5 00:00:14,805 --> 00:00:17,945 ideas, emphasizing the importance of critical thinking, 6 00:00:18,289 --> 00:00:22,130 understanding problems intimately, and having a systematic process for 7 00:00:22,130 --> 00:00:25,650 success. Aviad's insights into the evolution of venture 8 00:00:25,650 --> 00:00:29,115 capital capital and the AI revolution are sure to intrigue and 9 00:00:29,115 --> 00:00:31,375 inspire. Now on to the show. 10 00:00:33,595 --> 00:00:37,180 Alright. Hello, and welcome back to Data Driven, the podcast where we explore the 11 00:00:37,180 --> 00:00:40,700 emergent fields of AI, data science, and, of course, data 12 00:00:40,700 --> 00:00:44,320 engineering. With me on this epic road trip down the information 13 00:00:44,605 --> 00:00:46,065 superhighway of data. 14 00:00:48,125 --> 00:00:51,725 Andy Leonard. How's it going, Andy? It's going pretty good, Frank. How are you, 15 00:00:51,725 --> 00:00:55,230 sir? I'm doing alright. You and I are both suffering from the 16 00:00:55,230 --> 00:00:58,530 pollen wave that has hit, Virginia, Maryland. 17 00:00:58,990 --> 00:01:02,575 We're at least half of Maryland. The southern the the kind of coastal 18 00:01:02,575 --> 00:01:06,255 half. I was in Pittsburgh. Out of town, and I was up in you were 19 00:01:06,255 --> 00:01:09,775 north. I was in Pittsburgh, and Yeah. Everyone up there is complaining about 20 00:01:09,775 --> 00:01:13,410 allergies, but, yeah, it wasn't at the degree. It didn't bother me. And then it's 21 00:01:13,410 --> 00:01:16,850 literally as soon as I crossed interstate 81, in 22 00:01:16,850 --> 00:01:20,445 Hagerstown, boom. Like, it just hit like a wave. 23 00:01:22,505 --> 00:01:26,020 But with me, with us today is 24 00:01:26,020 --> 00:01:29,860 Aviad Harel. He is a, management partner 25 00:01:29,860 --> 00:01:33,675 at team 8, and, he's gonna tell 26 00:01:33,675 --> 00:01:36,875 us all about what team 8 is because I've heard it used, I've heard it 27 00:01:36,875 --> 00:01:40,715 referenced, but I'd like to know more. Welcome to the show, Aviad. Hi, Frank. 28 00:01:40,715 --> 00:01:44,540 Hi, Andy. Happy to be on your show today. Cool. Good to have you. 29 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,360 So It was my pleasure. You are, you're an 30 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,500 investor. You're, an adviser, and 31 00:01:52,735 --> 00:01:56,495 you have a history of of being a founder, actually. You you 32 00:01:56,495 --> 00:01:58,595 were a founder and COO of 33 00:01:59,910 --> 00:02:03,750 Sisense. So tell us about what is team 8? Let's start 34 00:02:03,750 --> 00:02:07,310 there. Yep. So team 35 00:02:07,310 --> 00:02:11,005 8 is, is a VC to begin with. It's 36 00:02:11,005 --> 00:02:13,825 an Israeli based VC, quite large one, 37 00:02:15,590 --> 00:02:19,430 but, it has, a spill. It's a VC with 38 00:02:19,430 --> 00:02:23,130 a spill, and I'll try to explain what, makes it, unique. 39 00:02:25,084 --> 00:02:28,704 We at Teammate, we really like to partner with 40 00:02:28,924 --> 00:02:32,064 founders very early in their journey. 41 00:02:32,950 --> 00:02:36,709 Sometimes before they have a very established idea of what they're going to 42 00:02:36,709 --> 00:02:40,405 build, we usually look for founders 43 00:02:40,405 --> 00:02:44,084 that, we we become big believers 44 00:02:44,084 --> 00:02:46,905 in in their capabilities, and 45 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,520 we are also interested in founders that are interested in the 46 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,460 same verticals that we are interested. 47 00:02:55,315 --> 00:02:58,775 Part of our day to day is to build 48 00:02:59,075 --> 00:03:02,915 thesis for ideas. What does it mean? We don't like to be 49 00:03:02,915 --> 00:03:06,060 passive. We don't like to sit on our on our chairs and waiting for, 50 00:03:06,300 --> 00:03:10,060 founding, teams to come to us and pitch us ideas. We 51 00:03:10,060 --> 00:03:13,725 do that, and we like that, but we also really, really 52 00:03:13,725 --> 00:03:17,565 like to be very active on the ideation part. So even 53 00:03:17,565 --> 00:03:21,380 before we find founders, we work very hard to build our own thesis in 54 00:03:21,380 --> 00:03:25,060 our, in our specific verticals that we're interested 55 00:03:25,060 --> 00:03:28,440 in. But we're building the thesis in a way 56 00:03:28,819 --> 00:03:32,305 that is like we are going to start that company. 57 00:03:32,685 --> 00:03:36,444 So we come up with an idea. We connect to 58 00:03:36,444 --> 00:03:40,219 the market, to specific companies that potentially can become design 59 00:03:40,219 --> 00:03:43,980 partners or even customers, of that idea, and 60 00:03:43,980 --> 00:03:47,760 we try to validate that idea together with them. 61 00:03:48,575 --> 00:03:52,335 If we were able to validate the idea 62 00:03:52,335 --> 00:03:55,775 in in in a very systematic way, and we have a very 63 00:03:55,775 --> 00:03:59,520 elaborated, book of processes, how we, validate 64 00:03:59,660 --> 00:04:03,340 our teasers. And then we also found the right 65 00:04:03,340 --> 00:04:06,860 founders that, we feed them, they feed us, and they feed the 66 00:04:06,860 --> 00:04:10,645 teasers. Then we usually don't just bet 67 00:04:10,645 --> 00:04:14,405 on them, we triple bet on them. It starts with the size 68 00:04:14,405 --> 00:04:17,830 of the check. Usually, we invest in 69 00:04:17,830 --> 00:04:21,510 precede, rounds. We invest 2 x to 70 00:04:21,510 --> 00:04:24,915 5 x of the average check size in these founders and 71 00:04:24,915 --> 00:04:28,675 ideas. We do not invest 72 00:04:28,675 --> 00:04:32,375 in many companies every year. We invest in only very few 73 00:04:32,580 --> 00:04:36,420 because we want to give them our full attention. And lastly, at 74 00:04:36,420 --> 00:04:40,180 team 8, we have, an establishment we call 75 00:04:40,180 --> 00:04:44,015 the, the platform. It's actually a group 76 00:04:44,015 --> 00:04:47,775 of 85 professionals on the payroll of teammate that 77 00:04:47,775 --> 00:04:51,310 includes, developers and product people and 78 00:04:51,310 --> 00:04:55,010 sales people and business people, that they have two purposes 79 00:04:55,310 --> 00:04:58,930 in, teammate. 1, help us in, validating 80 00:04:59,615 --> 00:05:03,295 thesis, and secondly started 81 00:05:03,295 --> 00:05:07,055 it. So from the 82 00:05:07,055 --> 00:05:10,500 perspective of the founders, if we decided, 83 00:05:11,199 --> 00:05:14,879 to partner with them, we give them large 84 00:05:14,879 --> 00:05:18,645 checks very early on in the process. They give they get 85 00:05:18,645 --> 00:05:22,245 the bandwidth of, the managing partner such as 86 00:05:22,245 --> 00:05:25,465 myself and my, partner, and they're augmented, 87 00:05:26,940 --> 00:05:30,400 at day 0 with the platform, the 85, professional, 88 00:05:31,180 --> 00:05:34,639 part of, teammate. This is a very expensive motion. 89 00:05:35,865 --> 00:05:39,245 We were able to execute on that motion 90 00:05:39,945 --> 00:05:43,725 if and only if we're able to build a very strong conviction 91 00:05:44,820 --> 00:05:48,500 on the problem, the solution, and the founders. So 92 00:05:48,500 --> 00:05:52,180 we do very little, but the little we do, we 93 00:05:52,180 --> 00:05:55,935 triple bet on that. So this is this is 94 00:05:55,935 --> 00:05:59,775 my way to explain the difference, or the 95 00:05:59,775 --> 00:06:03,395 different motion of teammate versus a more typical VCs. 96 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,880 Right. And, you know, VCs, at least in America at 97 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,680 least in the Valley, the Valley model, it sounds like you're very different than the 98 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,499 Valley model. It seems like you're you're kind of, like, a step or 99 00:06:15,499 --> 00:06:18,125 2 ahead of you you bet. And that's not fair to the valley based ones. 100 00:06:18,125 --> 00:06:21,650 Right? Like, because there there's a stereotype. Right? Like, and and I'm sure they're they're 101 00:06:21,650 --> 00:06:24,690 painfully aware of the survey. But it sounds like you don't just invest in the 102 00:06:24,690 --> 00:06:28,254 idea, but you also invest in the people. Right? Correct. Correct. 103 00:06:28,794 --> 00:06:32,315 I I I would not be, very quick to say that, 104 00:06:33,034 --> 00:06:36,395 the Silicon Valley VCs do not invest in people. They do invest in 105 00:06:36,395 --> 00:06:40,200 people, But, we invest 106 00:06:40,260 --> 00:06:43,560 in people very early. Right. And, 107 00:06:44,955 --> 00:06:48,655 we take bigger chances because we build bigger conviction 108 00:06:49,355 --> 00:06:53,135 more than average at least on the problem statement and the solution for that. 109 00:06:53,275 --> 00:06:56,780 Mhmm. Nice. That makes a lot of sense. 110 00:06:57,100 --> 00:07:00,780 No. And I don't mean to track the value of these. It's 111 00:07:00,780 --> 00:07:04,615 just it's a different what you're doing is is I think being people first, 112 00:07:04,615 --> 00:07:07,735 if that's if that's a a a good way to think of it. How did 113 00:07:07,735 --> 00:07:11,255 you come to that I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. We're big 114 00:07:11,255 --> 00:07:15,050 believers in, people. You know? 115 00:07:16,230 --> 00:07:20,070 I think the number one, attribute to success of a 116 00:07:20,070 --> 00:07:23,845 venture is the people we partner with and the 117 00:07:23,845 --> 00:07:27,685 market. Right? These are the 2 most important, attributes, to 118 00:07:27,685 --> 00:07:31,525 that. So we try to partner with the best founders we can. Now best 119 00:07:31,525 --> 00:07:35,040 founders we can partner with is a combination of few qualities. 120 00:07:35,100 --> 00:07:38,780 1st, the the people, and secondly, they're matched 121 00:07:38,780 --> 00:07:41,360 to the teases, to the idea that they are after. 122 00:07:42,525 --> 00:07:46,365 Interesting. Interesting. How did you 123 00:07:46,365 --> 00:07:49,725 come to that model of being kind of a people first approach as opposed 124 00:07:49,725 --> 00:07:53,440 to what I've seen as more of a product 125 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,500 based approach or an offering based approach? 126 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,355 Yeah. So first, teammate, was 127 00:08:01,355 --> 00:08:05,035 founded way before I joined. I joined a little bit over a year ago, so 128 00:08:05,035 --> 00:08:08,510 it's not a a model I invented. But I think, 129 00:08:09,310 --> 00:08:11,090 this model, was 130 00:08:12,750 --> 00:08:16,415 created based on few things. 1st, I think 131 00:08:16,475 --> 00:08:18,895 the people that founded team 8 basically, 132 00:08:19,835 --> 00:08:23,515 had a very good understanding of a specific vertical they started 133 00:08:23,515 --> 00:08:27,130 with and cybersecurity. Teammate was found by 134 00:08:27,130 --> 00:08:30,730 the x 8200, commander. It was the the 135 00:08:30,730 --> 00:08:34,485 intelligence, technical intelligence unit out of IDF. 136 00:08:34,745 --> 00:08:37,925 And, he and his team came with, 137 00:08:38,625 --> 00:08:42,465 a set of understanding deep understanding of, the 138 00:08:42,465 --> 00:08:46,029 vertical, and, they wanted to 139 00:08:46,029 --> 00:08:49,870 be very active in regards to what they're going to build and not just 140 00:08:49,870 --> 00:08:53,505 wait for, ideas to come to them. So they started to build few teasers, 141 00:08:53,505 --> 00:08:57,345 and they part of the process of building or or building a 142 00:08:57,345 --> 00:09:01,060 factory to build, startups, they also started 143 00:09:01,060 --> 00:09:04,040 to, meet or date potential, founders. 144 00:09:04,740 --> 00:09:08,455 And, they had a very good initial success, And I think this 145 00:09:08,455 --> 00:09:12,215 is what, set, set the structure going on 146 00:09:12,215 --> 00:09:16,055 forward of, how, things are, taking 147 00:09:16,055 --> 00:09:19,840 place at Team 8. Well, that whole that whole seeking 148 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,600 out people, I know I know that's what other, VCs do. 149 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,640 But most of the time, you know, those of us on the outside of the 150 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,325 market, hear of people going to pitch 151 00:09:30,705 --> 00:09:34,545 their ideas in a shark tank kind of way. Is that on my side 152 00:09:34,545 --> 00:09:38,250 or your side? So that on my side, that's what 153 00:09:38,250 --> 00:09:41,630 I hear. You know, my understanding is Got a little bit dumb. Invested. 154 00:09:42,570 --> 00:09:45,905 So you got a little bit disconnected. Technical glitches. Yeah. 155 00:09:46,205 --> 00:09:49,885 So from my side, what I see as a person on the outside is 156 00:09:49,885 --> 00:09:53,425 that usually engagement with venture capitalists 157 00:09:53,485 --> 00:09:57,180 involves someone like me going to someone like you 158 00:09:57,180 --> 00:10:00,940 and sharing an idea and creating a pension oh, I'm sorry. 159 00:10:00,940 --> 00:10:04,634 I still see him. Oh, no. I still see you. Can you 160 00:10:04,634 --> 00:10:08,394 still hear me, Andy? I hear both of you. Yeah. And I've had a couple 161 00:10:08,394 --> 00:10:12,100 of glitches over here, but that's kinda normal. Am I back in 162 00:10:12,100 --> 00:10:15,640 sync? You look like you are. 163 00:10:15,860 --> 00:10:19,675 Okay. Can you hear me? Typing. I can hear you. Can you hear 164 00:10:19,675 --> 00:10:23,115 me talking when and see my mouse moving into the system? You for, 165 00:10:23,835 --> 00:10:27,535 few to, 10 of seconds. Okay. Can you hear me now? 166 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,880 Daphne says she can hear me. Okay. Weird. Oh, 167 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,685 well. Sorry about He's moving. Yeah. I can see 168 00:10:37,845 --> 00:10:41,605 I think the video is good. You come in and go. I'm trying to check 169 00:10:41,605 --> 00:10:45,450 my network. It seems okay. Yeah. It's probably me. 170 00:10:45,450 --> 00:10:48,890 I'll let my team Teams. I like blaming Teams. Hold on. Frank, you know what 171 00:10:48,890 --> 00:10:52,430 I you got the gist of what I'm about to do. Yeah. 172 00:10:53,290 --> 00:10:57,125 So I will I will ask in behalf of Andy because it's okay. So 173 00:10:57,125 --> 00:11:00,165 from the outside, right, and and to be clear, last time I had any kind 174 00:11:00,165 --> 00:11:03,890 of interactions with, venture capitalists would have been the dotcom 175 00:11:03,890 --> 00:11:07,740 boom. Right? So this is, like, a lifetime ago. And, 176 00:11:09,875 --> 00:11:13,075 one of the things is, like, when when we when people tend to when people 177 00:11:13,075 --> 00:11:16,834 on the outside of the industry, they tend to think of something like Shark 178 00:11:16,834 --> 00:11:20,520 Tank. Right? Where a a a, entrepreneur 179 00:11:20,660 --> 00:11:24,020 goes to a bunch of venture capitalists, and they do a pitch deck or a 180 00:11:24,020 --> 00:11:27,815 pitch. Has that changed? Like, what is what is what is kinda normal for the 181 00:11:27,815 --> 00:11:28,714 industry now? 182 00:11:32,029 --> 00:11:33,250 Can you still hear me? 183 00:11:38,350 --> 00:11:42,185 Oh, wow. Okay. He's not moving, so you come and go. 184 00:11:42,185 --> 00:11:45,865 Okay. Yeah. Let me prep a Google Meet 185 00:11:45,865 --> 00:11:46,685 just in case. 186 00:11:52,089 --> 00:11:55,149 I think now it's a little bit better. Now it's better. 187 00:11:56,010 --> 00:11:59,555 Yeah. Maybe we should turn off cameras just to be We 188 00:11:59,695 --> 00:12:03,155 can. Yeah. Sorry about that, guys. No worries. 189 00:12:05,535 --> 00:12:09,379 Alright. How's that? Can you I can 190 00:12:09,379 --> 00:12:12,519 hear you perfectly. Yeah. Excellent. Alright. 191 00:12:13,060 --> 00:12:16,905 This is gonna happen over the course of 8 years of podcasting. 192 00:12:17,365 --> 00:12:20,585 Alright. 1st time. Go ahead, Andy. We'll we'll take it from the top. 193 00:12:20,885 --> 00:12:24,649 Okay. So my question was, you know, I'm I'm a person outside of, 194 00:12:24,810 --> 00:12:28,490 venture capital. I've not interacted with, with with 195 00:12:28,490 --> 00:12:32,170 venture capitalists at all. And my understanding has 196 00:12:32,170 --> 00:12:35,785 been that the way you engage with a venture capitalist 197 00:12:35,845 --> 00:12:39,524 is you do a pitch deck. You go to a meeting that's a lot like 198 00:12:39,524 --> 00:12:43,260 the TV show Shark Tank, and they ask 199 00:12:43,260 --> 00:12:47,020 questions and you give answers. And, you know, at the end 200 00:12:47,020 --> 00:12:50,815 of that, they you know, the venture capitalists go thumbs up, 201 00:12:50,815 --> 00:12:54,575 thumbs down. And what I hear you saying, it sounds like that, yes, 202 00:12:54,575 --> 00:12:58,175 you're doing that, but you're also actively seeking out 203 00:12:58,175 --> 00:13:01,890 founders and that that's a bit different from what we've 204 00:13:02,029 --> 00:13:05,630 what we've expected. Okay. I think Cool. I think I think you 205 00:13:05,630 --> 00:13:09,455 described it, well. We seek out founders sometimes even 206 00:13:09,455 --> 00:13:12,895 before they have ideas. And in parallel, we also seek 207 00:13:12,895 --> 00:13:16,589 ideas regardless of founders. Now that's an interesting 208 00:13:16,589 --> 00:13:20,350 approach going after the that you know, I've never heard anybody say 209 00:13:20,350 --> 00:13:24,055 that before, that you're looking for, I guess, you're looking 210 00:13:24,055 --> 00:13:27,654 for leadership or, enthusiasm or 211 00:13:27,654 --> 00:13:31,450 intelligence or some combination of all of the above. You're you're 212 00:13:31,450 --> 00:13:35,130 looking for a person, and then y'all are all 213 00:13:35,130 --> 00:13:38,190 gonna get together, you and that person and your team, 214 00:13:38,730 --> 00:13:42,275 and you're gonna come up with an idea for that person to 215 00:13:42,275 --> 00:13:46,055 lead. Is that accurate? It is. It is. I just, 216 00:13:46,675 --> 00:13:49,690 even make it more, more, 217 00:13:50,090 --> 00:13:53,790 concrete. We look for entrepreneurs. Right? Entrepreneur 218 00:13:53,850 --> 00:13:57,675 is a little bit, of mixture of of, everything you listed, 219 00:13:57,995 --> 00:14:01,535 earlier. Uh-huh. But it also has the x factor. 220 00:14:01,834 --> 00:14:05,310 You know, someone that, will be able to get, 221 00:14:05,710 --> 00:14:08,530 in the room from the cracks in the floor. Right? 222 00:14:09,950 --> 00:14:13,515 So that x factor is a must, 223 00:14:14,315 --> 00:14:17,935 a must be, fairy dust on the qualities you described earlier. 224 00:14:18,395 --> 00:14:22,030 But, yeah, we're focused on that. Interesting. 225 00:14:23,290 --> 00:14:27,130 Interesting. What is what is kind of like 226 00:14:27,290 --> 00:14:30,705 because last time I interacted with any kind of venture capital would have been during 227 00:14:30,705 --> 00:14:34,464 the dotcom boom in the late nineties. Yep. How how has the industry 228 00:14:34,464 --> 00:14:38,065 changed since then? Well, this is this is 229 00:14:38,065 --> 00:14:41,250 a a a great, question. So, 230 00:14:41,889 --> 00:14:45,430 I'll try to answer it from, my own experience. So, 231 00:14:47,329 --> 00:14:50,875 before I joined team 8, I was a 232 00:14:50,875 --> 00:14:54,574 founder of, business intelligence and analytics company called Sisense. 233 00:14:54,875 --> 00:14:58,550 I started it 18 years ago. It's a long 234 00:14:58,550 --> 00:15:02,170 period of time when I say it, like that, and I spend there 15 years, 235 00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:06,334 holding, all the various position, you can, 236 00:15:07,134 --> 00:15:10,675 think of. I remember few things 237 00:15:10,735 --> 00:15:13,714 from the early days of, Sisense. 1st, 238 00:15:14,950 --> 00:15:18,390 it feels like it was way 239 00:15:18,390 --> 00:15:21,990 less professional than it is today. In the 240 00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:25,225 sense that when me and my cofounders 241 00:15:25,445 --> 00:15:28,665 wanted to start a Sisense, we were completely clueless. 242 00:15:28,805 --> 00:15:32,530 Right? We were completely clueless of what it means to start a 243 00:15:32,530 --> 00:15:36,290 company. We were completely clueless what it means to build a product. 244 00:15:36,290 --> 00:15:40,055 We were completely clueless of what it means to define a product 245 00:15:40,055 --> 00:15:42,235 or to build a team or to raise money. 246 00:15:43,415 --> 00:15:47,070 Today, many years after, I meet 247 00:15:47,070 --> 00:15:50,290 many teams and I see that the level of understanding, 248 00:15:52,590 --> 00:15:56,255 and, the knowledge that the teams, the founders that I 249 00:15:56,255 --> 00:15:59,775 meet today have is a few orders of 250 00:15:59,775 --> 00:16:03,295 magnitude, higher than what I had when I 251 00:16:03,295 --> 00:16:05,620 started. So this is one thing. Secondly, 252 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,120 the first money I raised to my company was half a 253 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,404 $1,000,000, I think. It was a long time ago. 254 00:16:17,185 --> 00:16:20,760 It's a different ball game today. Yeah. It used to be a lot of money. 255 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,620 It used to be a lot of money, and I gave 256 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,520 a big equity chunk for that half a1000000 dollars 257 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,075 worth of, funding. Today, it's a different ball game. 258 00:16:33,334 --> 00:16:36,315 This is pay more for much smaller part 259 00:16:36,695 --> 00:16:40,410 of, of, the company. So this is 260 00:16:40,410 --> 00:16:43,950 a a second, difference. And lastly, 261 00:16:44,170 --> 00:16:47,610 I think the ecosystem is much more mature. The 262 00:16:47,610 --> 00:16:51,295 ecosystem of startups and that, that 263 00:16:51,295 --> 00:16:55,055 cradle the the the founders and support them. Right? I'll give you a 264 00:16:55,055 --> 00:16:57,715 few example. When you want to start, 265 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,320 a venture and you raise money from any VC 266 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,000 by the way, many many VCs are really good 267 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,145 VCs in, provide you, 268 00:17:09,685 --> 00:17:12,905 air coverage of building your, company. They will, 269 00:17:14,005 --> 00:17:17,625 introduce you to relevant potential, customer or design partners. 270 00:17:18,230 --> 00:17:21,910 They will help you with future found of running funding. 271 00:17:21,910 --> 00:17:25,425 Sorry. They will introduce to you 272 00:17:25,645 --> 00:17:29,405 potential, key hires to your company. They used to 273 00:17:29,405 --> 00:17:32,945 do it in the past, but, in in much less systemized 274 00:17:33,245 --> 00:17:37,000 manner. So I think that on one 275 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,860 in one way, it's easier or more systematic, 276 00:17:41,804 --> 00:17:45,585 to be a founder these days. However, it's more competitive 277 00:17:46,205 --> 00:17:50,039 than it used to be back then. Interesting. 278 00:17:51,380 --> 00:17:54,900 What do you think has driven that the kind of the evolution? Just a 279 00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:58,455 few aside from inflation and being that, you know, half 280 00:17:58,455 --> 00:18:01,975 $1,000,000 isn't what it used to be. Well, I I think many 281 00:18:01,975 --> 00:18:05,435 factors. 1st, you know, the industry 282 00:18:05,495 --> 00:18:09,280 matured in in I don't know. 20 283 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,880 years ago, there weren't so many tech 284 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,515 startups out there. And as a 285 00:18:16,515 --> 00:18:20,275 derivative of that, there wasn't so so 286 00:18:20,275 --> 00:18:23,875 much of, institutional money to be invested in 287 00:18:23,875 --> 00:18:27,720 it. It wasn't a thing to invest in start up. It was, more of 288 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,399 a hobby. Now it's more, matured 289 00:18:31,399 --> 00:18:33,340 and incorporated in many ways. 290 00:18:35,135 --> 00:18:38,195 So the the industry, like many other industries, matured 291 00:18:38,655 --> 00:18:41,770 along, the way. Now, secondly, 292 00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:45,990 the world is becoming more tech, savvy or more 293 00:18:45,990 --> 00:18:49,590 tech driven, compared to what it was, 20 years 294 00:18:49,590 --> 00:18:53,195 ago. Right? That's true. Look at the Fortune, 295 00:18:53,434 --> 00:18:56,955 500, companies. Who are the companies that now lead the Fortune 296 00:18:56,955 --> 00:19:00,350 500 compared to who led the Fortune 500, 297 00:19:00,590 --> 00:19:04,270 least 20 years ago? Yeah. It's definitely tech heavy 298 00:19:04,270 --> 00:19:08,034 now. Yep. Yes. Absolutely. No. Those are 299 00:19:08,034 --> 00:19:11,095 good points. Those are good points. It's interesting to see how 300 00:19:13,315 --> 00:19:16,960 just unintended consequences of, you know, things becoming more 301 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,720 tech, heavy has changed things like the, you know, 302 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,554 the S and P and, as well as the weighting of 303 00:19:24,554 --> 00:19:28,095 the Dow Jones, but also kind of our daily lives, but also, 304 00:19:28,554 --> 00:19:31,930 you know, the better venture capital industry. Like, it's a it's more sounds like it's 305 00:19:31,930 --> 00:19:35,470 more of a proper discipline now as opposed to, you know, 306 00:19:35,690 --> 00:19:38,910 a hobby. Like, you know, kinda like we said, it was kinda, 307 00:19:39,485 --> 00:19:43,245 but now it's more of a professional discipline with with with 308 00:19:43,245 --> 00:19:47,085 proper kind of structure and form 309 00:19:47,085 --> 00:19:50,260 around it, I guess, would be a good way to put it. Yep. I agree. 310 00:19:50,260 --> 00:19:54,100 I agree. It's I think it's fair to describe it that way. Yeah. I 311 00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:57,924 like the way you're approaching it. It's very systematic. It it 312 00:19:57,924 --> 00:20:01,384 feels, you know, it feels kind of appropriate 313 00:20:02,245 --> 00:20:06,030 in that there's, that there's a framework that 314 00:20:06,030 --> 00:20:09,790 you're following, a system that you're following, kind of a, like Frank 315 00:20:09,790 --> 00:20:13,630 said, a disciplined approach to it. And, it it feels 316 00:20:13,630 --> 00:20:16,435 self similar. So you're investing in technologies. 317 00:20:17,615 --> 00:20:21,295 Maybe you're looking for or maybe part of what you're looking for 318 00:20:21,295 --> 00:20:24,035 is someone who has the ability to 319 00:20:24,750 --> 00:20:28,210 perhaps create methodologies to solve business problems, 320 00:20:28,750 --> 00:20:32,350 technical problems. And, you know, and and in 321 00:20:32,350 --> 00:20:36,065 doing that, you're applying this methodology that you've already built, 322 00:20:36,065 --> 00:20:39,765 you and your partner. I think it's, 323 00:20:40,625 --> 00:20:44,260 the right way to put it. In a way, 324 00:20:44,260 --> 00:20:47,780 if you want to become better in what you're 325 00:20:47,780 --> 00:20:51,515 doing, you must have a system. Doesn't matter 326 00:20:51,515 --> 00:20:55,055 which discipline you're involved with. But if you want to constantly 327 00:20:55,115 --> 00:20:58,770 improve, you must have a system. Because without a system, you won't be 328 00:20:58,770 --> 00:21:02,370 able to look back in a retrospective and understand in a 329 00:21:02,370 --> 00:21:06,130 systematic manner what worked and what didn't work and 330 00:21:06,130 --> 00:21:09,815 how to improve it. So in order to have the the the the 331 00:21:09,815 --> 00:21:13,575 the base ground to analyze what worked and what didn't 332 00:21:13,575 --> 00:21:17,210 work, you need to have a a a framework, a systematic framework that 333 00:21:17,210 --> 00:21:20,650 will help you to do so. So you're describing an 334 00:21:20,650 --> 00:21:24,235 advanced, or mature. There's a capability maturity 335 00:21:24,375 --> 00:21:28,055 models that are applied in software all the time. And what you're describing sounds 336 00:21:28,055 --> 00:21:31,880 very, very similar to that. And it's, 337 00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:36,340 you know, the same sort of thing that I recall from an article that 338 00:21:36,340 --> 00:21:39,955 I I read. I wanna say it was back in the nineties. And it was 339 00:21:39,955 --> 00:21:43,655 about the team that developed software for the Space Shuttle, 340 00:21:44,115 --> 00:21:47,175 for NASA Space Shuttle here in the US. And 341 00:21:47,850 --> 00:21:51,529 one of the things that, that they would do, an approach that they 342 00:21:51,529 --> 00:21:55,289 took was if there was a 343 00:21:55,289 --> 00:21:58,804 failure in the code, they didn't 344 00:21:58,865 --> 00:22:02,325 go fix the failure. They went back to their process 345 00:22:02,865 --> 00:22:06,544 and found where that failed and let that failure in the code 346 00:22:06,544 --> 00:22:10,340 through. So it's it's funny that you 347 00:22:10,340 --> 00:22:14,020 describe it that way because of 2 things. 1st, I think the the 348 00:22:14,020 --> 00:22:17,405 people you referred to are very smarter than I am, and they 349 00:22:17,405 --> 00:22:20,785 build much greater things in a in a bigger unknown, 350 00:22:21,645 --> 00:22:25,085 environment. But, in in in 351 00:22:25,085 --> 00:22:28,120 regards to that, internally at team 8, 352 00:22:29,299 --> 00:22:33,080 the the system we've built to how to IDA, 353 00:22:33,220 --> 00:22:36,735 to how to validate, to how to build a company, 354 00:22:36,875 --> 00:22:40,715 we actually, we actually call it the machine and and for a 355 00:22:40,715 --> 00:22:44,520 reason. We try to build a machine, that will help 356 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,280 us build great companies. That that really 357 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:52,040 sounds impressive, and I'd love to know more about that. And I 358 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,885 know we're, and I know we we have a limited amount 359 00:22:55,885 --> 00:22:59,505 of time, but I I'm fascinated by that application, 360 00:23:00,684 --> 00:23:04,220 you know, of this in a different field because 361 00:23:04,679 --> 00:23:08,220 I've seen, people try to attempt other methodologies 362 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,155 that do great in software. My my number one experience was 363 00:23:12,155 --> 00:23:15,755 with the scrum agile method. Yep. And I was at a 364 00:23:15,755 --> 00:23:19,595 business where that was introduced, and we all learned it. I learned it there for 365 00:23:19,595 --> 00:23:23,020 the first time. But then I saw the the 366 00:23:23,020 --> 00:23:25,679 business, part of that try and adopt, 367 00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:29,679 and and, you know, adapt from and adapt it to, 368 00:23:30,515 --> 00:23:33,955 applying it to business principles and business decisions. And in that 369 00:23:33,955 --> 00:23:37,700 particular instance, it failed miserably. And it was 370 00:23:37,700 --> 00:23:41,340 like I don't know what they did differently because I'm I wasn't that 371 00:23:41,340 --> 00:23:44,799 high up in the business. I was a low level manager. But 372 00:23:45,825 --> 00:23:49,284 but seeing that having that experience, seeing that fail 373 00:23:49,745 --> 00:23:53,524 was eye opening. And it's really cool to see 374 00:23:54,020 --> 00:23:57,559 somebody applying this in a to a to a business model 375 00:23:58,180 --> 00:24:01,860 and especially to, venture capitalism and the 376 00:24:01,860 --> 00:24:04,475 funding of founders and the building of ideas, 377 00:24:06,455 --> 00:24:10,215 and taking an idea from actually taking it from before the 378 00:24:10,215 --> 00:24:13,450 idea even exists, just finding a founder 379 00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:17,750 and then building an idea and then building that idea 380 00:24:17,750 --> 00:24:21,565 to some product or service. That that's just very impressive 381 00:24:21,565 --> 00:24:25,405 to me. It's exciting to hear that that's happening. It sounds like the movie 382 00:24:25,405 --> 00:24:29,245 inception. Right? Like Doesn't it? Yeah. You get it? That you 383 00:24:29,245 --> 00:24:33,050 can move before it's really a fully formed idea. You kinda nudge 384 00:24:33,050 --> 00:24:36,810 it along. Yeah. So so you know what? Let let let 385 00:24:36,810 --> 00:24:40,455 me give you a manifestation of, this process that, relates to 386 00:24:40,455 --> 00:24:43,975 our discussion, today. One of the things that, 387 00:24:44,135 --> 00:24:47,970 we build, at teammate as 388 00:24:47,970 --> 00:24:51,810 assets that we use to, to execute upon that 389 00:24:51,810 --> 00:24:55,365 motion is what we refer to as the villages. We 390 00:24:55,365 --> 00:24:58,885 have a couple of them. We have the CISA village, the system 391 00:24:58,885 --> 00:25:01,684 information security officer village, and, 392 00:25:02,485 --> 00:25:06,300 the data village. The Cisco village obviously is 393 00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:09,760 a network of, great CISOs from 394 00:25:10,060 --> 00:25:13,735 across the globe. Many Fortune 500, companies CISOs 395 00:25:13,735 --> 00:25:17,294 are part of, that network. And in the data village, we have, 396 00:25:17,775 --> 00:25:21,170 CDOs and and head of, data operations in different 397 00:25:21,170 --> 00:25:24,850 companies all across the globe. And the reason why we 398 00:25:24,850 --> 00:25:28,544 build these, networks that, we work very hard to maintain 399 00:25:28,765 --> 00:25:32,605 and to create engagement in these networks, it's not only because of 400 00:25:32,605 --> 00:25:34,770 the of the social, for 401 00:25:38,212 --> 00:25:38,712 exactly 402 00:25:42,155 --> 00:25:45,375 for exactly what we've talked to. For example, 403 00:25:46,315 --> 00:25:50,075 recently, and we do it on a on a cadence. We reach out 404 00:25:50,075 --> 00:25:53,640 to our network to learn about their day to day 405 00:25:53,940 --> 00:25:57,700 and top of mind issues and challenges that they 406 00:25:57,700 --> 00:26:01,294 face in the real life. And, we use 407 00:26:01,294 --> 00:26:04,995 that, as an input for us to map 408 00:26:05,375 --> 00:26:08,730 the world and understand which areas are, 409 00:26:09,430 --> 00:26:12,730 mostly painful for, the the, 410 00:26:13,110 --> 00:26:16,815 network, members of ours. And it's a great 411 00:26:16,815 --> 00:26:20,575 indication for us to start investigating whether there is a potential to 412 00:26:20,575 --> 00:26:24,340 build a company there. Right? So this is one thing. And the 413 00:26:24,340 --> 00:26:27,780 second part of it, is later in the process. So, 414 00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:31,934 let's say we build a thesis. Let's say I came up with a thesis in 415 00:26:31,934 --> 00:26:35,635 a data infrastructure, vertical. Now 416 00:26:35,775 --> 00:26:39,590 I really like, my thesis, but, nobody cares about the fact 417 00:26:39,590 --> 00:26:43,190 that I like them. I need the network to like them. Right? Because they're their 418 00:26:43,190 --> 00:26:46,804 potential, buyer eventually. So I take 419 00:26:46,804 --> 00:26:50,164 the thesis that, we processed internally at, at, 420 00:26:50,404 --> 00:26:54,164 team 8 that we worked on it, and I bring it to their table. 421 00:26:54,164 --> 00:26:57,550 I want to hear a candid feedback from, these, 422 00:26:57,870 --> 00:27:01,710 village members, what they think about it, and, why, 423 00:27:02,644 --> 00:27:06,004 we don't know what we're talking about or the opposite. Why this is the the 424 00:27:06,004 --> 00:27:08,585 best thing since sliced bread? 425 00:27:10,004 --> 00:27:13,780 Right. Right. Yeah. It's it's almost like it takes a village, 426 00:27:13,780 --> 00:27:17,080 you know, or takes Exactly. You know? Exactly. The approach. 427 00:27:17,620 --> 00:27:18,120 Interesting. 428 00:27:21,915 --> 00:27:25,195 No. This is fascinating. Like, you know, it's it's it's fascinating to see kind of 429 00:27:25,195 --> 00:27:28,950 how this this world works as someone who is kind of, you know, on 430 00:27:28,950 --> 00:27:32,549 the outside and kind of I watched our tank. There's actually a 431 00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:36,125 knockoff version of the show called elevator pitch, which I've 432 00:27:36,125 --> 00:27:39,645 seen. You know, it's not my client's 433 00:27:39,645 --> 00:27:43,460 getting shark tank, but so what 434 00:27:43,460 --> 00:27:47,160 would be your advice to entrepreneurs? 435 00:27:47,860 --> 00:27:51,515 Like and and, like, what would be your advice for 436 00:27:51,515 --> 00:27:55,355 them in general? They have an idea. And what would 437 00:27:55,355 --> 00:27:59,130 be your advice to them to, like, say, hey. I wanna execute 438 00:27:59,130 --> 00:28:02,730 on this idea. Like, what how would they best approach a venture 439 00:28:02,730 --> 00:28:05,770 capitalist in today's kind of terms? Right? Because it used to be you have to 440 00:28:05,770 --> 00:28:09,615 write this huge document way back, then it became, oh, you see the PowerPoint 441 00:28:09,615 --> 00:28:13,155 deck. Right? I'm pretty sure it's evolved to something else now. What what what 442 00:28:13,535 --> 00:28:16,810 what would be your advice to somebody in that position? So, 443 00:28:17,170 --> 00:28:20,610 I'm trying to address this, question, holistically and not, 444 00:28:20,930 --> 00:28:24,745 tactically. First, I think 445 00:28:24,745 --> 00:28:28,504 that, having a founder that, operates 446 00:28:28,504 --> 00:28:31,804 in that specific domain for some time is very important. 447 00:28:33,380 --> 00:28:37,140 To have an intimate relationship with a problem, I think it's a get 448 00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:40,020 great indicator, for a great, 449 00:28:41,305 --> 00:28:45,065 problem understanding and potentially to solve that problem. So this 450 00:28:45,065 --> 00:28:48,730 is one thing. Secondly, critical 451 00:28:48,730 --> 00:28:52,030 thinking. Right? Sometimes all of us, 452 00:28:52,650 --> 00:28:55,535 fall in love with our ideas. Right? 453 00:28:56,735 --> 00:29:00,575 And and and this could be the the one of the the 454 00:29:00,575 --> 00:29:04,035 biggest detractors or or company destroyers 455 00:29:04,415 --> 00:29:08,250 out there, to fall in love with what you do. I mean, you should fall 456 00:29:08,250 --> 00:29:11,390 in love with it, but you should also be very judgmental 457 00:29:12,010 --> 00:29:15,775 about everything you do and question every step 458 00:29:15,775 --> 00:29:19,215 you take. For example, I give you the example. We come up with a 459 00:29:19,215 --> 00:29:23,030 thesis that sounds to us or feel to us very 460 00:29:23,030 --> 00:29:26,870 good, and we have, a lot of confidence with that. It's 461 00:29:26,870 --> 00:29:30,715 nice, but it doesn't mean a lot. I need the actual market, 462 00:29:30,715 --> 00:29:33,695 the actual, friction of the market, 463 00:29:34,635 --> 00:29:38,430 to indicate the same thing. So we try to be 464 00:29:38,570 --> 00:29:42,110 as critical thinkers as, possible. 465 00:29:45,674 --> 00:29:49,115 The people, we talked about it. Building your, 466 00:29:49,355 --> 00:29:52,910 founding team is crucial, for your 467 00:29:52,910 --> 00:29:56,750 success. And, it's one of the those things 468 00:29:56,750 --> 00:30:00,270 that I believe that you should build a team in a way that 1 469 00:30:00,270 --> 00:30:04,105 +1equal 3, meaning the sum of the people, 470 00:30:04,965 --> 00:30:08,725 or the the the value of the group is bigger than the sum of, the 471 00:30:08,725 --> 00:30:12,549 people. And to make sure you have a a good distribution of, skill 472 00:30:12,549 --> 00:30:16,390 set in that team, you have someone that is more business oriented, someone 473 00:30:16,390 --> 00:30:19,825 is more technical oriented, someone is more, focused on a 474 00:30:19,825 --> 00:30:23,664 product. These are great indicators or 475 00:30:23,664 --> 00:30:27,424 initial great indicators for, a good founding 476 00:30:27,424 --> 00:30:30,850 team, and and and and a good venture. 477 00:30:31,550 --> 00:30:34,690 I I love that approach. I love the overlapping bends, 478 00:30:35,230 --> 00:30:38,995 for both passion and for skill. 479 00:30:39,534 --> 00:30:43,294 The thing you said earlier, though, that that really, that I wanna 480 00:30:43,294 --> 00:30:46,690 go back to is the idea of an 481 00:30:46,690 --> 00:30:50,530 idea, if you will. So, yes, people can, 482 00:30:50,530 --> 00:30:54,015 I think, approach with a a great idea? And I see this all of the 483 00:30:54,015 --> 00:30:57,395 time on a much smaller scale, just managing teams of individuals 484 00:30:58,015 --> 00:31:01,550 that people will look at a a solution or look at a problem that needs 485 00:31:01,550 --> 00:31:05,090 to be solved and come up with a solution that 486 00:31:05,230 --> 00:31:08,930 is okay. Maybe not great, maybe it'll solve it, but 487 00:31:09,175 --> 00:31:12,775 it would be so much better if they just added a couple 488 00:31:12,775 --> 00:31:16,455 of, you know, a couple of tweaks to that idea. And it could 489 00:31:16,455 --> 00:31:18,040 be too. That that's one part 490 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:21,000 of it. The other part of working with others, and this is the crucial part 491 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,840 of that, building that team that you're talking about. And it's my experience 492 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,335 with it is that, sometimes you need 493 00:31:28,335 --> 00:31:31,795 somebody to look you in the eye and say, that's a bad idea. 494 00:31:32,255 --> 00:31:35,670 And it really it can go a couple of ways from there. So one way 495 00:31:35,670 --> 00:31:38,950 it can go, and I think this is often overlooked, so I'm gonna mention it 496 00:31:38,950 --> 00:31:42,794 first, is that they may be wrong about that. It 497 00:31:42,794 --> 00:31:46,315 may be a great idea, and somebody's got a passion for it, and they 498 00:31:46,315 --> 00:31:49,900 want to, to build this thing. But here's an 499 00:31:49,900 --> 00:31:53,660 option. You don't you can build it, but maybe you don't have to 500 00:31:53,660 --> 00:31:57,020 build it right now. If you build this other idea, which 501 00:31:57,020 --> 00:32:00,755 is, you know, what everyone agrees that you should build, now 502 00:32:00,755 --> 00:32:03,975 everyone's engaged. You've got the power of all of those 503 00:32:04,275 --> 00:32:07,870 blends of skills and passions, and you can 504 00:32:07,870 --> 00:32:11,550 produce this product now. Go ahead and do that. Spend a few 505 00:32:11,550 --> 00:32:15,310 years on it. Make your money, and then you can go off and build your 506 00:32:15,310 --> 00:32:18,815 passionate project. And it could be that that also 507 00:32:18,875 --> 00:32:22,715 succeeds. So that just I that's just that take 508 00:32:22,715 --> 00:32:26,350 on it. I I really like that idea, though, the team. I 509 00:32:26,350 --> 00:32:30,190 think anybody who's ever worked in a good team has enjoyed 510 00:32:30,190 --> 00:32:33,804 that experience and seeks to repeat that experience because it 511 00:32:33,804 --> 00:32:37,325 is truly an awesome thing. It's a great feeling when the 512 00:32:37,325 --> 00:32:41,005 team clicks. I couldn't agree more 513 00:32:41,005 --> 00:32:44,460 with you, Andy. One thing that, 514 00:32:45,980 --> 00:32:49,675 was, I heard between the words of 515 00:32:49,675 --> 00:32:53,355 what you said is something that I also relate to, and 516 00:32:53,355 --> 00:32:56,575 this is the process. Right? We talked about the team. 517 00:32:57,300 --> 00:33:01,059 We talked about, the perspective of being a judgmental or 518 00:33:01,059 --> 00:33:04,740 critical thinker about everything you do. But one thing that I think 519 00:33:04,740 --> 00:33:07,705 is overlooked sometime is the process itself. I mean, 520 00:33:09,924 --> 00:33:13,385 I hear on a on an average week at least 521 00:33:13,924 --> 00:33:17,350 20, 30 new ideas. Right? Ideas 522 00:33:17,810 --> 00:33:21,570 are at best at best, 20% of the success of 523 00:33:21,570 --> 00:33:23,270 a new start up at best. 524 00:33:25,105 --> 00:33:28,865 80% if not more, it's all about the execution of 525 00:33:28,865 --> 00:33:32,390 the idea. Right. The execution of the idea. And, 526 00:33:32,950 --> 00:33:35,690 there there are many many layers to this statement. 527 00:33:36,710 --> 00:33:40,410 You start with the idea. Right? But, then reality 528 00:33:40,470 --> 00:33:44,295 happens. Right? And you see that, yeah. And 529 00:33:44,295 --> 00:33:48,135 then you see that the idea well, the the the origin 530 00:33:48,135 --> 00:33:51,820 of the idea is right, but, you need to constantly 531 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,540 navigate the idea, the product vision, 532 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,744 you know, with the conjunction of, the reality. And Sure. 533 00:33:59,945 --> 00:34:03,544 The best teams, others are the ones that 534 00:34:03,544 --> 00:34:07,260 can navigate, in a very up, 535 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,219 open and critical thinking way the product 536 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,139 from the the initial idea to the actual, 537 00:34:15,225 --> 00:34:19,065 embodiment or the actual manifestation of the product that it that 538 00:34:19,065 --> 00:34:22,880 they will, end up with. So the 539 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,020 process itself is super important in my mind. 540 00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:30,255 Yeah. I I so agree with that. We have a there's a a famous 541 00:34:30,255 --> 00:34:33,855 military statement, but what you said reminded me of a modification of 542 00:34:33,855 --> 00:34:37,694 it. It's like no idea survives contact with 543 00:34:37,694 --> 00:34:41,230 reality. Mike Tyson is 544 00:34:41,230 --> 00:34:45,070 also known for for a similar quote where everybody has a plan until they 545 00:34:45,070 --> 00:34:48,755 get punched in the face. That's right. But I think I think that 546 00:34:48,755 --> 00:34:52,435 ties into something, you had said earlier, Adiad, was, you know, like, you you you 547 00:34:52,435 --> 00:34:55,474 wanna love your idea and you wanna fall in love with your idea, but I 548 00:34:55,474 --> 00:34:58,780 don't think you want your love to blind your common sense. 549 00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:02,700 So here is a a a quote I really like, to use. 550 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,505 Don't fall in love with your solution. Fall in love with the problem. 551 00:35:07,704 --> 00:35:11,305 Right? Make sure you have yeah. Make sure you're 552 00:35:11,305 --> 00:35:14,684 you're very, very familiar with the problem. 553 00:35:15,089 --> 00:35:18,869 You really relate to it, you understand it in a very intimate 554 00:35:18,930 --> 00:35:22,704 manner, the right solution will evolve, will 555 00:35:22,704 --> 00:35:26,325 evolve throughout the process if if if you're a strong leader. 556 00:35:28,065 --> 00:35:31,730 Right. Wow. Yes. That's good. That's 557 00:35:31,730 --> 00:35:35,569 really good. That's a quotable. Definitely. I 558 00:35:35,569 --> 00:35:38,529 know we're short on time, and, normally, we do all these questions, but I think 559 00:35:38,529 --> 00:35:42,275 we can do an abbreviated one. I think the first question I'd have for you 560 00:35:42,275 --> 00:35:46,035 is how did you get how did you find your way into into 561 00:35:46,035 --> 00:35:49,700 being a VC? Right? Like, did did it find you or did you find 562 00:35:49,700 --> 00:35:53,540 it? So probably a little bit of both. So, 563 00:35:53,780 --> 00:35:57,465 as I mentioned, before I joined T9, I was, I spent 564 00:35:57,465 --> 00:36:01,245 15 years in a company I founded, a AI analytics 565 00:36:01,625 --> 00:36:05,385 company. And it was a great success. Right? When I left the company, it was 566 00:36:05,385 --> 00:36:09,080 at 100 and $60,000,000 of reoccurring revenue, and we had 567 00:36:09,140 --> 00:36:12,980 more than 800, employees, globally. But 568 00:36:12,980 --> 00:36:16,775 I did it for a very long period of time, 15 years. And I 569 00:36:16,775 --> 00:36:20,455 started that company out of college. It's almost, the the cliche 570 00:36:20,455 --> 00:36:24,280 of, founding up, a startup. You're 571 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,120 doing brilliant. Yeah. And I wanted to to 572 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,100 to, you know, to experience few other things. 573 00:36:32,395 --> 00:36:36,155 So when I started to have these existential thoughts, I informed the board 574 00:36:36,155 --> 00:36:39,775 of directors of, my company, and it took some time until I departed. 575 00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:44,920 But, during my last 576 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,280 few years at Sisense, I also became an 577 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,055 active angel investor. So I tried to start, 578 00:36:53,075 --> 00:36:56,915 giving back to the community of, entrepreneurship in Tel Aviv, 579 00:36:58,079 --> 00:37:01,780 by meeting founders and offering them my candid 580 00:37:01,839 --> 00:37:05,440 support and advice. That's it. And, I started to do 581 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,835 that. And every once in a while, I met up, founders or a 582 00:37:08,835 --> 00:37:12,435 team that I got really excited, from. And, 583 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,579 I I I asked them if I can also invest some of my 584 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,859 own money. And this is how I started my, angel investment, 585 00:37:21,115 --> 00:37:23,615 journey. When I departed from teammate, 586 00:37:25,515 --> 00:37:28,335 You mean Sisense? Yep. Sorry. Sisense. 587 00:37:29,609 --> 00:37:33,150 I, had a lot of free time on my plate. So, 588 00:37:33,770 --> 00:37:37,505 naturally, I became more and more active 589 00:37:37,505 --> 00:37:41,265 in my angel investments. If you ask 590 00:37:41,265 --> 00:37:44,950 me when I when I left, Sisense, if I'll, if I 591 00:37:44,950 --> 00:37:48,569 want to become a VC, the answer would have probably been 592 00:37:48,630 --> 00:37:52,470 no way. I'm a founder. I'm a founder. I'm going 593 00:37:52,470 --> 00:37:56,185 to start a new company. And, I was very close 594 00:37:56,185 --> 00:37:59,405 to start up, a new company, after Sisense, 595 00:37:59,705 --> 00:38:03,550 but the reality is that it didn't happen. Now 596 00:38:03,710 --> 00:38:06,450 I can talk for hours about the psychological, 597 00:38:07,630 --> 00:38:10,430 reasons for that, but it didn't happen. And, 598 00:38:11,150 --> 00:38:14,475 I I can think of why not, but, eventually, 599 00:38:14,615 --> 00:38:18,215 after, I became, quite, active 600 00:38:18,215 --> 00:38:21,515 angel investor, I met the teammate, people. 601 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,920 And, they talked to me for quite some time, and I remember the first 602 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,460 few talk, that they asked me about the, about potentially 603 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,625 working together. I told them I will never become a VC. 604 00:38:33,744 --> 00:38:37,445 But after some kind of, relationship for a long term, 605 00:38:38,145 --> 00:38:41,890 they came to me and told me, but, Aviad, you you were saying you're 606 00:38:41,890 --> 00:38:45,650 not you don't want to be a VC, but you actually invest in companies for 607 00:38:45,650 --> 00:38:49,410 your living. This is what you're doing currently. So join us. Don't 608 00:38:49,410 --> 00:38:52,915 fool yourself. Look at the mirror and join us, and it made 609 00:38:52,915 --> 00:38:56,675 sense. And, this is how I became a, 610 00:38:56,915 --> 00:39:00,570 a VC. You understand? That sounds 611 00:39:00,570 --> 00:39:04,410 like, Frank and I talk often about divine appointments, and 612 00:39:04,410 --> 00:39:08,010 it sounds very much like like one of those. You happen to run into 613 00:39:08,010 --> 00:39:11,775 the these people and it happened or, you know, your first 614 00:39:11,915 --> 00:39:15,055 reaction was not positive. That's great. 615 00:39:15,650 --> 00:39:19,490 Our next question is, what is your favorite part of your current 616 00:39:19,490 --> 00:39:22,930 gig? Very easy answer. Working 617 00:39:22,930 --> 00:39:26,515 with great founders. By far, meeting the 618 00:39:26,515 --> 00:39:30,355 teams, identify that these are great, 619 00:39:30,355 --> 00:39:34,079 great entrepreneurs. This is what makes me tick. And 620 00:39:34,079 --> 00:39:37,839 spending as much time, with them. I don't care doing what? Spending 621 00:39:37,839 --> 00:39:41,545 time with them? This is my favorite part of, my current gig. That 622 00:39:41,545 --> 00:39:45,305 is awesome. Very cool. We 623 00:39:45,305 --> 00:39:49,085 have 3 complete the sentences. When I'm not working, I enjoy blank. 624 00:39:50,619 --> 00:39:54,460 Well, it's a little bit embarrassing because, I don't have 625 00:39:54,460 --> 00:39:58,079 many hobbies. I really like, I really like, working. 626 00:39:58,724 --> 00:40:02,484 I I mean, obviously, my family. I love my family. So if I have spare 627 00:40:02,484 --> 00:40:05,765 time, I'm gonna I'm gonna spend it with, my wife and, 628 00:40:06,085 --> 00:40:09,900 kids. But if I'm not doing that, I'm probably working. 629 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,655 No. I'm right there with you. Don't be embarrassed. You're I 630 00:40:14,655 --> 00:40:18,115 I don't know if you're in good company, but you have a lot of company. 631 00:40:19,055 --> 00:40:22,815 That's right. That's right. That's right. That's an interesting way to phrase 632 00:40:22,815 --> 00:40:26,640 it. So our second 633 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,320 complete sentence, I think the coolest thing in technology today 634 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,154 is blank. Oh, so many cool new things in 635 00:40:34,154 --> 00:40:37,674 technology. I think the most prominent one is the 636 00:40:37,674 --> 00:40:41,210 AI revolution we're all experiencing. It's 637 00:40:41,210 --> 00:40:44,810 disrupting so many verticals, and 638 00:40:44,810 --> 00:40:48,410 very, very quickly, probably more, or faster than 639 00:40:48,410 --> 00:40:51,835 anything I've seen in the past. I thought when the 640 00:40:51,835 --> 00:40:55,595 cloud movement started, I don't know, 10 years ago, I thought this 641 00:40:55,595 --> 00:40:59,380 is the the quickest, evolution or revolution 642 00:40:59,380 --> 00:41:03,220 in technologies that I've seen. Nothing compared to, the speed 643 00:41:03,220 --> 00:41:06,820 of AI, and and how quickly it changes so 644 00:41:06,820 --> 00:41:07,285 many 645 00:41:11,924 --> 00:41:15,684 in it's in I thought we had reached kind of, a 646 00:41:15,684 --> 00:41:19,359 certain plateau of pace. But then when 647 00:41:19,359 --> 00:41:23,200 Chat GPT came out, I mean, it did just, like, just 648 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,915 accelerated. You know? What do you think made Cheggipt, 649 00:41:28,415 --> 00:41:32,255 becoming the pivotal thing in the perception of everyone that 650 00:41:32,255 --> 00:41:35,799 is, the reason for the the 651 00:41:35,799 --> 00:41:39,480 change in perception around AI? I 652 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,985 personally think is the way that it was presented. 653 00:41:44,885 --> 00:41:48,725 It has you know, there's 2 factors to 654 00:41:48,725 --> 00:41:51,980 it. 1, it's a chatbot. Right? So people can kinda relate to that. Right? That's 655 00:41:52,059 --> 00:41:55,900 it the the the and big deal. Right? There's been chatbots around for number 656 00:41:55,900 --> 00:41:58,880 of years. But I think the real thing that blew people away 657 00:41:59,785 --> 00:42:03,464 was it destroyed the notion that AI can't be 658 00:42:03,464 --> 00:42:07,244 creative. Well, this is very close to what I think. 659 00:42:07,464 --> 00:42:10,890 Mhmm. I was dazzled. I mean, I heard 660 00:42:10,890 --> 00:42:14,730 about bots. I played with many bots in the past. But the first 661 00:42:14,730 --> 00:42:18,525 time I started to play with JetJPT, I was dazzled by the 662 00:42:18,765 --> 00:42:22,605 quality, how good it was. And it was light 663 00:42:22,605 --> 00:42:26,125 years, better than anything else, any other 664 00:42:26,125 --> 00:42:29,920 chatbot that I've seen, and and it was very apparent that this is a 665 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,680 revolution for me at least. That was that was my reaction. Right? So 666 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,495 when it came out, I was presenting because we we launched a product to Red 667 00:42:37,495 --> 00:42:41,195 Hat about the same time and at at AWS reinvent. 668 00:42:41,335 --> 00:42:44,775 Right? So I was kind of in AWS reinvent 669 00:42:44,775 --> 00:42:48,310 land. And I go I get to the airport at 670 00:42:48,310 --> 00:42:52,150 Vegas because early because when you wanna leave Vegas, you do you wanna 671 00:42:52,150 --> 00:42:55,845 leave. Right? So I get to the airport early, and I'm like, you 672 00:42:55,845 --> 00:42:58,965 know, I a lot of people I know have been, like, raving about chat GBP 673 00:42:58,965 --> 00:43:01,940 and saying how great it is. And I'm like, alright. Alright. So let me just 674 00:43:01,940 --> 00:43:05,380 ask it. How do I start how do I get started with SageMaker? I think 675 00:43:05,380 --> 00:43:09,060 that was the original question I asked it. And I had a expectation of, 676 00:43:09,060 --> 00:43:12,555 well, you do this, you do this, you do this. But, like, the the the 677 00:43:12,555 --> 00:43:15,935 answer behind it was so coherent and so cogent. 678 00:43:16,715 --> 00:43:19,615 Like you said, it was light years beyond my expectations. 679 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,800 And I'm continually amazed at, like, what it can do. Right? Like, it 680 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,800 and it blows my mind to this day and this is, like, what's 681 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,495 going on 2 years later. Absolutely. Absolutely. 682 00:43:36,555 --> 00:43:40,300 Alright. Andy, you want the the next complete the sentence or has the allergies 683 00:43:40,300 --> 00:43:41,119 gotten you? 684 00:43:44,380 --> 00:43:48,225 Alright. I will I will ask you for him so we stay on some kinda 685 00:43:48,225 --> 00:43:52,065 sketchy. Sneezing. He's probably sneezing. Alright. Complete the sentence. 686 00:43:52,065 --> 00:43:55,445 I look forward to the day when I can use technology to blank. 687 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,160 Take away the vast majority of my day to day 688 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,925 bureaucracy. Right? Dealing with the bank and taxes. 689 00:44:05,984 --> 00:44:09,365 And I think we're getting quickly towards that. 690 00:44:09,825 --> 00:44:13,110 Quickly towards that. I'm involved in a company that, 691 00:44:13,910 --> 00:44:17,750 is actually building, disruptive technology in, 692 00:44:18,470 --> 00:44:22,155 filing your taxes every year. And they do it, yeah, doing 693 00:44:22,155 --> 00:44:25,295 it automatically in a in a very good manner. 694 00:44:26,155 --> 00:44:29,595 I met up, founding team in in legal deck that they 695 00:44:29,595 --> 00:44:33,120 build, a technology that can summarize 696 00:44:34,700 --> 00:44:38,515 thousands of, legal document very, very quickly and just 697 00:44:38,595 --> 00:44:42,295 do, the red lines very, very quickly and replace, 698 00:44:42,434 --> 00:44:46,115 you know, the the tedious work of, endless, hours of, 699 00:44:46,355 --> 00:44:49,910 lawyers in that regard. So I think we're at the right direction 700 00:44:49,910 --> 00:44:53,270 towards that, but, it's a brave new word, I 701 00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:57,055 think. I don't know what the tax code is outside the US, but 702 00:44:57,055 --> 00:45:00,655 in the US, it's very convoluted and confusing. Yep. So if you can have an 703 00:45:00,655 --> 00:45:03,935 AI that you can explain it to you like you're 5, you know what I 704 00:45:03,935 --> 00:45:07,770 mean, that would be very useful. There are a few very exciting 705 00:45:07,910 --> 00:45:11,690 technologies that, are after that goal, so stay tuned. 706 00:45:11,990 --> 00:45:14,170 I will eagerly be awaiting that. 707 00:45:15,765 --> 00:45:19,545 So share something different about yourself. It's a family podcast. 708 00:45:19,845 --> 00:45:23,065 Like, it's a it's a family podcast in the sense of, 709 00:45:24,030 --> 00:45:27,790 we went into this before. Like, when I drive to where 710 00:45:27,790 --> 00:45:31,630 my my my wife's family is, it's about 3 hours. It's about 1 Joe Rogan 711 00:45:31,630 --> 00:45:35,015 episode away, but I can't listen. 712 00:45:37,154 --> 00:45:40,609 That's influence. Right? You measure time and distance based on your 713 00:45:40,609 --> 00:45:42,950 podcast. Right? That is true. 714 00:45:44,049 --> 00:45:47,890 But, so I don't listen to 715 00:45:47,890 --> 00:45:51,655 it because I have kids in the car. So what that's 716 00:45:51,655 --> 00:45:55,174 the rationale behind it. So what's your, you know, what 717 00:45:55,335 --> 00:45:58,980 what's, you know would you answer that? Yeah. 718 00:45:58,980 --> 00:46:02,580 So first thing that comes to mind that, not many 719 00:46:02,580 --> 00:46:06,055 people know about me, I, really love traveling, 720 00:46:06,195 --> 00:46:09,555 and I used to to backpack in South 721 00:46:09,555 --> 00:46:12,960 America for almost a year. Oh, wow. A while 722 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,580 ago. A while ago. But backpack by myself 723 00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:20,515 as a decision. I wanted to backpack by myself in 724 00:46:20,515 --> 00:46:23,734 South America, and I did it for 11 months. Wow. 725 00:46:24,914 --> 00:46:28,275 That is very interesting. You must have gotten a lot of, like, clarity on 726 00:46:28,275 --> 00:46:32,119 things. Like, just along with your thoughts. It feels amazing. I 727 00:46:32,119 --> 00:46:35,900 have to admit. That's awesome. So, Audible is a sponsor. 728 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,965 And if you go to the data driven book dotcom, 729 00:46:40,825 --> 00:46:44,505 you can sign up for a month. And if you decide to 730 00:46:44,505 --> 00:46:47,565 subscribe after that, then Frank and I get to buy a coffee. 731 00:46:49,230 --> 00:46:52,830 It it works out well because we both like coffee. We treasure every 732 00:46:52,830 --> 00:46:56,355 cup. Is there a a good audio book 733 00:46:56,355 --> 00:46:59,954 or just a a book that has influenced you, 734 00:46:59,954 --> 00:47:03,780 impacted you? Yeah. 735 00:47:03,780 --> 00:47:07,380 Actually, there is one. It's called the mom's test. I don't know if you heard 736 00:47:07,380 --> 00:47:10,360 about it, but a few of the thing, 737 00:47:11,345 --> 00:47:14,945 that, we talked earlier relate to that book. And the mom 738 00:47:14,945 --> 00:47:18,680 test is a book about how, this is 739 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:22,140 my interpretation of it, how to properly validate 740 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,980 ideas. Right? In a very, as I mentioned, a very 741 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,865 critical thinking way and doubtful way, 742 00:47:29,885 --> 00:47:33,725 that I usually advise, founders that I meet to read. I 743 00:47:33,725 --> 00:47:37,500 think it's very valuable. Interesting. Okay. I 744 00:47:37,500 --> 00:47:41,180 see it on Audible. I tested the link earlier, the 745 00:47:41,180 --> 00:47:44,935 data driven book.com, and it took me right over to Audible like it was 746 00:47:44,935 --> 00:47:48,075 supposed to, and it's by Rob Fitzpatrick. Is that accurate? 747 00:47:48,615 --> 00:47:52,235 Okay. The mom test. I love that title. Yep. 748 00:47:52,839 --> 00:47:56,460 Very cool. You know, in a in a nutshell in a nutshell, 749 00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:01,525 when, when you question people about idea, it talks 750 00:48:01,525 --> 00:48:05,204 about few things we we've mentioned is to focus on the problem and not the 751 00:48:05,204 --> 00:48:08,930 solution. Right? If I'll tell you, hey, guys. I have an idea for a great 752 00:48:08,930 --> 00:48:12,690 app on your iPhone that organize your icons. I don't know. What do you think 753 00:48:12,690 --> 00:48:16,425 about it? And you'll probably say, oh, it's cool. That 754 00:48:16,425 --> 00:48:19,965 feedback is meaningless. I learned nothing from that feedback. 755 00:48:20,025 --> 00:48:23,869 Right? Right. So how you structure the questionnaire? How you structure 756 00:48:23,869 --> 00:48:27,310 the discussion in order to properly validate the problems, the solution, and 757 00:48:27,310 --> 00:48:31,150 such is at the at the core of this book, and I think it's 758 00:48:31,150 --> 00:48:34,944 super valuable. Well, I love it when authors read their own work, 759 00:48:35,085 --> 00:48:38,865 and he does. And so I grabbed it. It's, about 760 00:48:39,005 --> 00:48:42,680 almost 4 hours long, and that's that makes it kind of a 761 00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,359 short audiobook, which is also, perfect. I love that as 762 00:48:46,359 --> 00:48:50,095 well. So I appreciate you, recommending that, and I'm going 763 00:48:50,095 --> 00:48:53,855 to read that, and then I'm gonna connect with you on LinkedIn so I can 764 00:48:53,855 --> 00:48:57,695 give you feedback on that, on what I would do at work. I would love 765 00:48:57,695 --> 00:49:01,240 that. Well, this has been an 766 00:49:01,240 --> 00:49:05,080 amazing show, Frank. Absolutely. I I it 767 00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:08,785 was it was a pleasure, Aviat. Yep. Where where 768 00:49:08,785 --> 00:49:12,305 people reach out to find out more about you? That's what I was gonna 769 00:49:12,305 --> 00:49:16,050 say. You're most welcome, and I'm very accessible. If 770 00:49:16,050 --> 00:49:19,890 you want to talk again, just, have my email. Send me an 771 00:49:19,890 --> 00:49:23,650 email. I travel a lot to the US. So next time on, on the 772 00:49:23,650 --> 00:49:27,085 East Coast, I get to New York a lot. So if you're there, I'll be 773 00:49:27,085 --> 00:49:30,305 happy to meet for I'll buy you coffee. You said you like coffee. 774 00:49:31,165 --> 00:49:34,750 That would be outstanding, sir. Thank you so much. So if, 775 00:49:34,990 --> 00:49:38,450 where can people learn about your, the company you're working with now? 776 00:49:39,790 --> 00:49:43,515 Sorry. Say it again. So where where might 777 00:49:43,515 --> 00:49:47,355 people learn more about the, the group you're working with now? Team 778 00:49:47,355 --> 00:49:51,109 8. Team 8. Yes. So, we can 779 00:49:51,109 --> 00:49:54,170 do multiple things. 1st, check our website, 780 00:49:54,790 --> 00:49:58,315 teammate, dot v c. You can read all about 781 00:49:58,315 --> 00:50:02,075 this team 8, the motion, the the portfolio companies, the 782 00:50:02,075 --> 00:50:04,880 founders, and such. And, 783 00:50:05,820 --> 00:50:09,580 if you need more information, I'll be more than happy to share with you, you 784 00:50:09,580 --> 00:50:13,200 know, marketing information and everything you need. 785 00:50:13,675 --> 00:50:17,275 So that is for our listeners team, the word team, and then the 786 00:50:17,275 --> 00:50:20,415 number 8 dot v c. Correct. 787 00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:24,760 Pretty awesome. Okay. Excellent. Andy and 788 00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,360 Frank, I had a blast. Thank you very much. Same we did 789 00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:32,105 too. Same Learned a lot of you. Yeah. Great great 790 00:50:32,105 --> 00:50:35,865 conversation. Thank you so much. Well, excellent. You. With that, we'll 791 00:50:35,865 --> 00:50:39,680 let the nice British AI lady finish the show. Well, that's a wrap on 792 00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:43,360 another episode of data driven. We hope you enjoyed our chat 793 00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:47,055 with Aviad Harrell from team 8 as much as we did. If you 794 00:50:47,055 --> 00:50:50,494 found this episode insightful, please show your support by 795 00:50:50,494 --> 00:50:54,255 liking, subscribing, and leaving a review on your favorite podcast 796 00:50:54,255 --> 00:50:57,680 platform. Your support helps us continue to bring you 797 00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:01,280 fascinating conversations and the latest in AI, data 798 00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:05,075 science and data engineering. Stay connected with us on 799 00:51:05,075 --> 00:51:08,055 social media and visit our website for more content. 800 00:51:08,515 --> 00:51:12,355 Until next time, keep learning, keep innovating, and as 801 00:51:12,355 --> 00:51:13,880 always, stay data