1 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:15,350 Hey there, and welcome back to another episode of Sam's Sidebar, where I tackle your 2 00:00:15,350 --> 00:00:20,140 essential legal questions about online business in ten minutes or less. 3 00:00:20,140 --> 00:00:26,090 This week, you'll get a hot legal tip about what to do if a client quits or you want to 4 00:00:26,090 --> 00:00:27,710 fire them. So, 5 00:00:27,710 --> 00:00:31,040 this week's question came from our listener, Angie. 6 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:35,570 Angie said, "I had my first coaching client quit just over halfway through my program. 7 00:00:35,570 --> 00:00:36,830 She did not do the work. 8 00:00:36,830 --> 00:00:38,360 However, I did. 9 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,000 A lot of it. She was one of my more needy clients. 10 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:45,980 So much of our interactions were conversations and encouragement through texts. 11 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:51,920 My question is this, since she quit or had I fired her, I think she knew it was coming 12 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:57,350 because she broke up with me first, do I reimburse her for the latter half of the program? 13 00:00:57,350 --> 00:01:03,860 Or if she refuses to make her last few payments - she's on a payment plan - what can I 14 00:01:03,860 --> 00:01:08,760 do?" Okay. Angie, first and foremost, I'm so sorry that this happened. 15 00:01:08,780 --> 00:01:13,850 I wish I could give you a big hug because I just really want to normalize this. 16 00:01:13,850 --> 00:01:18,620 And every time I talk about clients not paying people or people not paying your invoices, 17 00:01:18,620 --> 00:01:22,570 I always want you to know how common this is. 18 00:01:22,580 --> 00:01:27,140 I don't mean it's happening all the time, but it at least happens once to everyone. 19 00:01:27,140 --> 00:01:30,890 It happens at some point to everybody in business, me included. 20 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,370 So, not all client relationships go smoothly. 21 00:01:34,370 --> 00:01:38,660 And every single coach, every friend that I've had, has had someone "quit". 22 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,570 I also wanted to normalize this idea that, like, halfway through your coaching program, 23 00:01:44,570 --> 00:01:45,980 this person was like, "Thanks. 24 00:01:45,980 --> 00:01:51,530 I don't need you anymore." That is so painful when it happens and it's so normal. 25 00:01:51,530 --> 00:01:54,620 So, I just want you to know both of those things. I 26 00:01:54,620 --> 00:01:59,540 think that it's important for us to talk about this more because I don't ever want 27 00:01:59,540 --> 00:02:01,400 somebody taking it personally. 28 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:06,460 Instead, I want you to kind of shift into what can I do about this. 29 00:02:06,470 --> 00:02:09,560 I mean, first of all, knowing what your rights are, which is what we'll talk about today, 30 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,310 but also like what can you put in place in the future so that hopefully this doesn't 31 00:02:13,310 --> 00:02:15,350 happen again. So, 32 00:02:15,350 --> 00:02:17,980 here's the good part, I guess. 33 00:02:17,980 --> 00:02:21,740 The good part about being your own boss is that you get to decide how to handle stuff like 34 00:02:21,740 --> 00:02:26,530 this. So, of course, there are certain legal rights and obligations that you have. 35 00:02:26,540 --> 00:02:32,810 But when it comes to refunds, for example, if it feels better for you to release this 36 00:02:32,810 --> 00:02:35,660 person and move on, that's okay. 37 00:02:36,050 --> 00:02:38,210 That is totally okay. Yes, 38 00:02:38,210 --> 00:02:42,390 I'm a lawyer. Yes, I write refund policies and all this kind of stuff. 39 00:02:42,410 --> 00:02:46,970 Yes, I do go after people who don't pay sometimes and all that kind of stuff. 40 00:02:46,970 --> 00:02:52,790 But I've also chosen not to, and I've also encouraged friends or colleagues not to as well 41 00:02:52,790 --> 00:02:59,030 sometimes. So, just like it's okay for you to stand your ground and say no refunds - because that's 42 00:02:59,030 --> 00:03:02,720 totally fine, too - as long as you have the right contract with that language in it - 43 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:09,230 which all of my contract templates do - you also have the right to refund that remaining 44 00:03:09,230 --> 00:03:16,940 time. So, if you had fired her though, Angie, if you had fired her, a refund of her remaining 45 00:03:16,970 --> 00:03:23,060 time would 100 percent be the right thing to do and the legal requirement. 46 00:03:23,060 --> 00:03:27,770 So, if you're three months into a six month coaching package with a client and you cancel 47 00:03:27,770 --> 00:03:31,490 on them, you're going to have to give them the remaining money back. 48 00:03:31,490 --> 00:03:33,950 You're not going to get to keep that. But 49 00:03:33,950 --> 00:03:37,550 since she quit, the client quit in this case, you can decide whether or not you'd like to 50 00:03:37,550 --> 00:03:39,980 enforce that contract language or not. 51 00:03:40,130 --> 00:03:44,720 So, if she doesn't pay her remaining payments and then you've tried collecting them from 52 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:50,080 her yourself, you could explore collections if you wanted to, either through an attorney 53 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,990 - not me - or a private collections company. 54 00:03:53,990 --> 00:03:57,020 There are even online companies for this now. 55 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:02,690 When you submit somebody's failure to pay you or pay you on time to collections, you'll 56 00:04:02,690 --> 00:04:07,970 need a legitimate contract to prove that the person agreed to pay that amount on that 57 00:04:07,970 --> 00:04:13,310 date. So, if you use PayPal or something similar to process people's payments, I have 58 00:04:13,310 --> 00:04:19,280 seen complaining clients be successful these days against coaches in issuing chargeback 59 00:04:19,280 --> 00:04:24,380 threats. That's where they complain to PayPal that they want a refund even though they 60 00:04:24,380 --> 00:04:26,060 know they signed a contract saying no. 61 00:04:26,060 --> 00:04:30,740 Typically, if the service hasn't been offered yet, then PayPal will actually give them the 62 00:04:30,740 --> 00:04:35,930 refund. So, I get angry comments from people on both sides of this issue. 63 00:04:35,930 --> 00:04:40,070 Like, "How dare you suggest to send good people to collections?" Or like, "You have us 64 00:04:40,070 --> 00:04:42,860 have refund policies but then say it's okay not to enforce them? 65 00:04:42,860 --> 00:04:48,830 What a joke." Honestly, the deal is I find my role here, in general, to give you the 66 00:04:48,830 --> 00:04:51,830 buffet of options and then you can decide what to do. 67 00:04:51,830 --> 00:04:53,630 It's not about me telling you what to do. 68 00:04:53,630 --> 00:04:56,690 And the truth is that there's not a right or wrong answer. The 69 00:04:56,690 --> 00:05:01,880 answer in life is not always to go to somebody's throat. 70 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:03,230 You know, that's not always the answer. 71 00:05:03,230 --> 00:05:04,580 And sometimes it is. 72 00:05:04,580 --> 00:05:07,900 Sometimes you are justified to do that too - well, I shouldn't even say that. 73 00:05:07,900 --> 00:05:09,700 You are justified to do whatever you want to do. 74 00:05:09,700 --> 00:05:14,380 But sometimes one of those options makes more sense for you than the other. The 75 00:05:14,380 --> 00:05:19,210 point is to make decisions that are for you and not based on what you think you should 76 00:05:19,210 --> 00:05:22,720 do or make a decision because you don't think you're allowed to do it. 77 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:27,730 So, that's where I really just see my role here is educating you for what the options are, 78 00:05:27,730 --> 00:05:29,930 and then you can decide. 79 00:05:29,930 --> 00:05:32,080 And that just starts with knowing what your rights are. 80 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,600 I think it's really empowering to walk away too. To 81 00:05:35,620 --> 00:05:38,620 me, the best approach in general is prevention. 82 00:05:38,620 --> 00:05:43,900 So, having legally legit contracts that are in place early on will chase away, try it 83 00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:45,460 before they buy it clients. 84 00:05:45,460 --> 00:05:49,390 And that same contract will be what you'll use later to either try to collect the payment 85 00:05:49,390 --> 00:05:53,800 yourself or submit it to collections because you're going to need it, like I said. All 86 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,550 right. So, I hope that my answer to Angie's question was helpful. 87 00:05:57,670 --> 00:06:02,410 If you need to grab a last minute legal template, like a contract or a website policy 88 00:06:02,410 --> 00:06:09,040 that you can write off - it's a write off if anybody watches Schitt's Creek before Q4 - 89 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:13,630 you can visit my legal template shop on my website, samvanderwielen.com/shop. 90 00:06:13,630 --> 00:06:17,560 And keep in mind that when you decide to upgrade to the Ultimate Bundle, I credit the 91 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,820 cost of any template that you've purchased from me that's already included in the 92 00:06:21,820 --> 00:06:25,180 Ultimate Bundle. So, you have that fun thing coming for you. All 93 00:06:25,180 --> 00:06:28,660 right. Thank you so much for joining me for another episode of Sam's Sidebar. 94 00:06:28,660 --> 00:06:33,160 Check out the show notes below for related blog posts, resources, and my full episodes of 95 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,620 On Your Terms, which are every single Monday. And 96 00:06:35,620 --> 00:06:39,940 as always, if you have a question for me that you want answered on a future episode, you 97 00:06:39,940 --> 00:06:43,690 can submit it using the link for Sam's Sidebar Q&A below. 98 00:06:43,690 --> 00:06:49,820 Thank you so much. I'll chat with you next week. Thanks 99 00:06:49,820 --> 00:06:52,300 so much for listening to the On Your Terms podcast. 100 00:06:52,310 --> 00:06:56,210 Make sure to follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen to 101 00:06:56,210 --> 00:07:01,160 podcasts. You can also check out all of our podcast episodes, show notes, links, and more 102 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,250 at samvanderwielen.com/podcast. You 103 00:07:04,250 --> 00:07:08,030 can learn more about legally protecting your business and take my free legal workshop, 104 00:07:08,030 --> 00:07:12,850 Five Steps to Legally Protect and Grow Your Online Business, at samvanderwielen.com. 105 00:07:12,850 --> 00:07:17,390 And to stay connected and follow along, follow me on Instagram, @samvanderwielen, and send 106 00:07:17,390 --> 00:07:18,140 me a DM to say 107 00:07:18,140 --> 00:07:28,670 hi. Just 108 00:07:28,670 --> 00:07:33,590 remember that although I am a attorney, I am not your attorney and I am not offering you 109 00:07:33,590 --> 00:07:35,180 legal advice in today's episode. 110 00:07:35,180 --> 00:07:39,890 This episode and all of my episodes are informational and educational only. 111 00:07:39,890 --> 00:07:44,240 It is not a substitute for seeking out your own advice from your own lawyer. 112 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,090 And please keep in mind that I can't offer you legal advice. 113 00:07:47,090 --> 00:07:49,150 I don't ever offer any legal services. 114 00:07:49,150 --> 00:07:52,100 But I think I offer some pretty good information.