Justin (0:00:00) - Hey everybody, before we get started, I want to thank my friends at hatch for producing this episode. You can get unlimited podcast editing and strategy for one flat rate by visiting Hatch FM. All right, let's get in the show. Welcome to Distribution first, the show where we flip content that marketing on its head, and focus on what happens after you hit publish. Each week I share playbooks, motivations, stories, and strategies to help you repurpose and distribute your content because you deserve to get the most out of everything you created. Everybody on this week's episode of Distribution First, I sit down with my buddy Joe over at sway, and we chat all about the role that video plays in my content strategy, a little bit about the b two b creator space, and also how you can use a video first content strategy at your company. Whether you are in house or running your own thing, video can be a huge part of what you're doing, and it doesn't take as much lift as you might think. And we dive into all of those different areas. So let's get into the show. Joe (0:01:16) - Okay, Justin, first of all, great to have you on. I think this is like our third back and forth podcast episode now, so it's great to do the third one. I'm sure there'll be more in the future, but as a starting place for this conversation, can you share the role that video plays in your own content strategy? Justin (0:01:32) - Yeah, video is in some ways the center of everything that I do, even as a solo creator business owner. But video has really been at the center of a lot of my content strategies, even for the past two companies, although they were in very different ways. But for me, it's not anything over complex. It's not anything overcomplicated. At its core, it's a podcast that gets recorded every single week, and then that gets recorded as a video as well, even though I'm not actively taking the full length videos and doing anything with them yet. I have a full library of video content. I have a full library of shorts. I have a full even segments from the shows and the episodes. And so that just adds a lot of creativity and a lot of different things that can come off of it. And that's really what I love about doing video and podcast and that type of content. At the core, is the amount of things that can come off of it. And again, this is different because I'm also the host of the show. It's been different in the past when I've been doing this sort of similar strategy, and I haven't been the host, but as the host I already know what I'm talking about. I already know the thoughts, the frameworks, the ideas, the questions. All of those things are already top of mind after an episode is created. And so I can think through ahead of time what are the other pieces that could come out of it? What are the interesting questions? All of those type of bits that can get pulled on. So at its core, it's a podcast. Joe (0:03:05) - That's what all revolves around. Yeah, that makes sense. Do you feel like, because I feel like there's a little bit of a shift going on, right, where you're seeing more and more companies now? I mean, the podcast play has been a thing, at least for a handful of companies, for a couple of years now, but it feels like that content pillar is starting to change for a lot of companies, where it's shifting from the blog article being the main content pillar to now it's a long form video or it's a podcast. Do you feel like when you start with a video, it makes it easier to then create other pieces of content and to then go and repurpose other pieces of content? What are your thoughts left? Justin (0:03:37) - I definitely do, because I think in a lot of ways you already have a foundation built to be able to create lots of things quickly. So let's take text to video, for instance. That's a harder lift because now I have to either script it or I have to come up with something and then record the lift is harder. Versus when you have video, you already have a lot of those tangible building blocks, especially now with a lot of the amazing AI tools or just different tools out there to be able to extract the information that's in that I can literally use a tool and say, hey, give me all the main points that we talk about in this video. Give me all the topics and subtop like it's already framed up just based on what we talked about versus if I've got this text post. All right, what are all the other things that I can create off of it? That absolutely can happen. It just takes a little bit more effort and a little bit more work to turn that into. Especially if you're thinking about multimedia type content, which is maybe where the differentiation is there. It's easier to create multimedia content out of something that's multimedia, video, audio, text, et cetera. That just makes sense from a creation standpoint of, well, yeah, I don't have to spin my wheels as hard. It might take a little bit more upfront work and upfront level up in knowledge to be able to create a show and make something interesting, which these are not easy things. There are a bunch of podcasts out there that nobody wants to spend any time listening to, but there are also a bunch of blogs that people that nobody wants to read. So at the end of the day, it's having to create that valuable content. But the ability to spin up off of that is so much easier. Joe (0:05:20) - Yeah, it's easier to go from video to text than it is to go from text to text. The video, zooming into that process a little bit for you. Right? So you've done a podcast, it could be a podcast, it could be a lot. It could be an event session. What's your process for then taking that session and let's say, then going like video to text or just maybe just your repurposing process for that, let's say 1 hour piece of content. Justin (0:05:44) - There's really only three things that you need to focus on. It's section. So it's like the main piece of content and then all the sections that are coming off of that. So I think section at the top after that think channel, where am I sharing this? What am I creating? Do I need a blog for my website? Do I need LinkedIn content? Do I need YouTube video? And then once you understand channel off of the sections, what format do I need to create that in to fit that channel? So, for instance, if you have a podcast episode with six sections that are really good, solid pieces of content that you sort of thought through, of like, yeah, this section was really good. And this section was really good. You drill down and you say, all right, we're going to do LinkedIn now. You drill down and you say, all right, formats. I can do video clips, I can do text posts, I can do images, I can do quote graphics, I can do carousels. And it's not that you have to do all those things, but you have those options. And those options are different than if your channel was YouTube because you have. And so you're really just figuring out those three things and layering it down from there and being able to understand, like, all right, I have all these sections. That's number one, like understanding what content you want to be able to pull out, what was the best stuff, what channels am I sharing this on? And then what formats do I need to create off of that? Joe (0:07:03) - Got it. In terms of the format that you're creating, I know that when I go on your LinkedIn, for example, you're sharing and posting and distributing a lot of clips. Is there a format that you're leaning into more at the minute. And when you're repurposing content, are you leaning into a specific format or is your goal really still testing this rate of a lot of different formats? Justin (0:07:26) - Are you curious about different video formats specifically or just. Joe (0:07:29) - No, just general. Justin (0:07:31) - Yeah, I would say, like for the show, it's interesting because there are times where I'll get a clip, but rather than post the clip, I will take the idea out of the clip and turn it into a text post. Nobody knows that that clip even exists, but the idea is there. And so I think that's another low key way that people can use. I do podcast content to come up because especially if you're the front facing person on the show or the brand or whatever that is, it's your idea you're just going to take and oh, great. Yeah, that was really smart. I said something smart. I'm going to post on that. You can do that. So I like to have a mix because what I don't want from my perspective is to have getting too comfortable with. Oh, there's that from Justin. There's that clip from Justin, there's that style clip from Justin, there's that text, there's that carousel, there's that image, whatever those things are. So I think you want to be. Joe (0:08:27) - Associated with just one thing. Justin (0:08:29) - Yeah, I mean, I just think it adds variety to the feed a little bit to where it's not one thing. And there is also just like a level of testing and not knowing some things you spend a lot of time on and you think this is a great piece of content and it flops. But that could be the hook was bad, the intro, it didn't get to the point. People were you posted at a weird time. It's all a giant experiment, especially when you talk about social. I think for any of those pieces of micro content that I'm creating in my mind, it's never about the one thing, it's about the overall, the macro. I very rarely focus on micro metrics for my stuff anyway because I'm my own boss and I can decide what metrics I want to report on to the CEO, lucky. But I think for me it's an understanding of knowing. The goal of doing this is not to even get you to listen to my podcast. It really isn't. It's to get you to understand how I think and how I can help. And that's really like long term has served and it's wild, I'm telling you, because I have seen prospects, LinkedIn posts, unsolicited talking about distribution first, using the terms distribution first. I've been on sales calls where somebody brought their boss on and they said, well, you know, on this podcast where you talked about exit, I'm like, oh, okay, so the vp is listening to the podcast. It's those things where you don't always see it. It's the classic dark social. It's the classic dark web of like, I don't know how people are consuming this content, but it's really focused more on the macro side. Joe (0:10:03) - Oh, by the way, as a distribution first, I feel like that's like you've took that to a whole of a stratosphere in the last kind of like year. I'm seeing a ton of people using that. Justin (0:10:13) - Yeah, it's super fun to see, to be honest. And I'm very pleased that I bought the domain and started the podcast and did everything because it's like, you know what? This was something that I came up with, but I think it fits. I think it really does fit. It makes sense. It was one of those things. Even when I came up with it, it really started as the name of the show, which is funny, but everything's. I had the forethought to think like, all right, whatever we build here is going to build off of it. Yeah. Joe (0:10:40) - So you build the term distribution first. We're trying to own the term video first, so we'll learn it all those. That's the goal for us this year. Justin (0:10:46) - All right. Joe (0:10:48) - You speak to a ton of content marketers, vps, people in the content and be marketing world. Are you seeing more companies now shifting into and investing into video as a medium? Are you seeing more people running like the Justin Simon kind of playbook, right, where everything centers around, like a video podcast? Is that something you're seeing with your own clients, just prospects that you're speaking to? I'm curious. Justin (0:11:13) - I think of the conversations I've had. It's like dipping the toe in the water. It's a desire to want to make that happen. A lot of traditional content marketers are not experts in video. They are not podcasters by nature. And so it's sometimes hard to understand even how to get the engine created if you've never done it, even if you have a solid repurposing background and a solid content. One company I worked with last year, we literally just built up their podcast from scratch. But because we built it with the distribution framework in mind, they were able to really hit the ground running, to be able to get the most out of that podcast and be able to use that as the core. But so much of that, again, it's like distribution is the canary in the coal mine of a good or bad content strategy. I say it all the time, because a podcast is just a format. It could be awesome, or it can be awful, and an interview can be awesome, or it can be awful. You know what I mean? So it's like, it really depends on that content being good and valuable and helpful and speaking to the problems that your business helps solve. You know what I mean? So often these podcasts are either a blatant ABM plays that are not actually useful or beneficial. It's just like two folks talking about whatever, or it's a podcast that somebody wants to, in the company, wants to run, wants to have, they want to interview these cool people, but it has nothing to do with the actual business, or it's very tangential to what. Okay, if we squint and we kind of, like, dim the lights a little, okay. Now it fits in with our ICP and our product. So I think having that is difficult. And then I think the other thing, too is the consistency of a podcast is very difficult for people to envision if you don't have one right now. A lot of folks, rather than making it the core, want to make it an addition. And when you make it an addition, especially on a lean team, a small team, it's very, very difficult. And so I think understanding where it fits in your content strategy, and that's where really, if you can understand how you set up the show to filter everything else, that's when it opens up the reality of like, oh, okay, I can do a blog post off of this and I can do clips and I could do, because I've set up the core to be properly run. And I think a lot of times it's just people don't understand the value and the reasons and the thoughts behind even what they're creating. Joe (0:13:55) - Yeah. And I think the big thing is, the key thing you said there is, it's seen as like an additional thing you need to do or you have to do versus actually, it can all start with video being in the middle, whether it's with a video podcast, video interview, you can do it in tons of different ways, but it's a whole kind of different approach. Right, to content. Do you think what's currently missing in terms of, there's kind of like a gap, I would say, in terms of skill sets for content marketers and in terms of video, what needs to change inside content functions in order for companies to start to crack video and start to be able to actually bring this in? And does anything need to change, or is it more of like a mindset thing? Justin (0:14:36) - I think it's definitely a mindset shift, but there's just a level of education around video that folks just don't have, and we're seeing a little bit more of it. Like, the barrier to entry in video is way easier now than it was three years ago, even just three years ago. But it's still difficult, even for me, who's somebody who's been doing this for a long time. There's a lot of nuance in video. If you're talking about legit, really good video, like making somebody feel something and transitions and music and story, there's a lot that goes into video that is very intimidating. So I think there is a gap there in terms of the average Joe schmo marketer versus a really good video content creator, et cetera. But all of those things can be learned. All of those things can be outsourced. All of those things can be bring in consultants or have people help you with it. All those things can be reality. So there is a gap, there's a mindset shift. I think just a basic understanding of how this thing works. Most content marketers are comfortable with. I write blog posts. We write two blog posts a week, and we rank in Google. Most content marketers are still comfortable with is I know how to create this type of content and I know how to get some stuff to rank, and I know how to show that we're moving the needle. And it's harder because there's mindset challenges, there's knowledge challenges, there's information challenges. And companies. It's hard, too. Like some companies, there may not be a person on staff who even wants to record video and be good on camera. There's talent problems. There's a lot of things that aren't always great. And so there's lots of challenges. Video is challenging. Content is challenging. Joe (0:16:34) - Yeah. Okay. So on the talent point, I go back and forth in my head about this all the time about if our team is looking to do video content, should they be looking at bringing in external actors, creators, as that video talent, or should they be using people internally and trying to get the founder or an internal SME on camera? What are your thoughts there? I have got my own opinions, but what do you think? Justin (0:16:59) - I feel like the ultimate long term strategy is to get, especially if you're talking about a smaller company, but even a bigger company. I just think there's so much of the founder or that core person within the company to be the face of the company, it really matters. I think of like the classic Steve Jobs example, Elon, they're the face of the company and they're in a lot of ways, the reason why that company is driven. I think there can be SMEs play a similar role. The risk you play in that. But again, this is just the reality. The risk is they could move on, go do their own thing, they could switch companies. And we've seen that in the b two B space as far as like people who were the face of a brand leave, change roles, et cetera, and then that sort of brand just kind of falls to the wayside because those people aren't there to really lift up and be the face of the brand anymore. On the flip side, I think partnering with creators is going to be massively important. One, to fill in the gap, but two, to tap into their audiences. And I think it's kind of a double edged sword there for these companies to be able to be able to work with folks who can create the content can be seen. A lot of folks are sort of talking about it's the b to c play now in b two b with influencer marketing and things like that. I feel like it's less transactional from a b to b standpoint because just b to b is less transactional to begin with. I think ultimately, to answer your question, I'm curious to hear your thoughts, too, Joe. The founder being the core is the best long term strategy because that person becomes the voice, the thought, the leader on a lot of the whys behind the company and why you should join. But I think there's also ways to supplement and tap into people outside the as well. Joe (0:18:44) - I think where I land on it is it probably depends on the type of content. Ultimately, I think for your social LinkedIn type content, where it's for leadership driven type of thing, it needs to come from someone internal, ideally the founder. I mean, you can bring in someone external, I think as long as they're industry related. The other side to that, though, is, I think for your YouTube style content, I think particularly for SaaS companies, where you're trying to rank for, you're taking a blog article and you're trying to get it to rank on YouTube, I think in that case, bringing in an actor or bringing in maybe ideally a creator that's already got their own audience, where they can push it to their audience on LinkedIn and you get that play going on. I think that's probably the most ideal setup. But I think in an ideal world, your video program is built around a founder or it's built around someone internal. Because I just think it's very hard from day one to try and get leadership brought in to a video program. When you're having to use an external actor, you're having to pay out all that cost to create. It's a hard road and it's just so much easier, right? Like we've said during this conversation, to build a video program where it starts with a podcast, where it starts with an interview, it's an easier thing to get momentum with. So I think you can use the actor and do that, but I think it's dependent on the type of content, I. E. YouTube styled videos that are going on YouTube, but it probably shouldn't start there. That's kind of where I got to with it. Justin (0:20:06) - And like, YouTube style videos, too are inherently different because you are reading a script, most of the time, you are following a path. You're having to build out a story, even if it's not an official storyboard. You're having to do stuff, video stuff that isn't just like, let's sit down and record an interview like we all have been doing on Zoom for the last three years. That takes a whole level, different level of skill set. Different skill set. Read a teleprompter, act natural, all those things. And so I think that's where video, just this blanket term of like, yeah, video in b two b is a way more nuanced conversation in terms of what do you want to do? Because I can tell you, when I worked at Techsmith, we built out literally to the tune of millions of views on YouTube. But we had a studio, and I know they still do have a studio. They have a beautiful studio, and they have a few solid people internally that they found who tried out, but they also have a video guy, Andy, who's like, he has a video background, and so that's what he did. And so they invested in these people full time on staff who are video folks, who can direct and manage, and it's an investment. It's all those things. And it's not just like, oh, I turned on my webcam, shot a video and got a million views on YouTube. No, there was so much that went into that strategy and making that thing work. Joe (0:21:39) - I think the YouTube play, and I think that's where creators will start to kind of plug those gaps for companies. So, like, one of my favorite examples at the minute is beehive so if you go on their channel, on YouTube, I think they're using one or two creators. There's one main creator that's appearing in their videos. It's not like a crazy studio background or it's not like in a hype professional studio, which I think is actually. I prefer that personally as a consumer watching the content, I just think it feels a bit more real. But they're obviously using a consistent creator in their YouTube content and I personally prefer that approach. And I think it's the approach that more companies will take on top of YouTube. I just think it's more practical than like creating a studio, bringing in actors and going that route purely just a costing. But also when you're using a creator, you're playing into their skill set. They've got an audience, they can push it to their social channels, that whole approach. So I think we'll see that beehive kind of play with more companies. Justin (0:22:29) - Yeah, it's really interesting to think about how to build something out that way and do it consistently. It's probably just like a set contract on a set amount of videos to start on these topics and being able to run that. And then that's the other thing too. Like, okay, we got this great video. Now there's the whole YouTube platform to understand and figure out. Now that's a whole other thing that content creators just don't or content creators know, content marketers. It's kind of a black box. Joe (0:22:57) - Where do you think we're at with the whole creator space at the minute? There's like a lot of chatter, I'd say, on LinkedIn about it at the minute. I'm a fan of it. I'm a big fan of it. But where do you sit with it all? Because it feels like there's just a lot of noise about it and a lot of people with a lot of different opinions about it. So there's not a very direct question here, but just what are your thoughts? Success? Justin (0:23:16) - I don't think it's going anywhere and I think it's only going to get bigger in a lot of ways. It's funny because I think a lot of, because it's coming from both directions. It's folks who have seen success doing it. It's also funny because you see a lot of youtubers are now retiring from YouTube, which is wild, but I think there's enough demand growing and there's also pretty seismic shifts in how we consume media and who we like. Everything's getting niched, know, like, I can listen to the exact thing I want. I don't have to go to the cable news station or whatever and watch only what ESPN gives me. I can watch exactly the topic I want from the person, you know? And so it's opening up a different lane there from the creator side. And also on the back end, you have a whole generation of folks, me and you are kind of included in that. But even my kids, for Pete's sake, they love to create content, like film stuff and do like, if I had that stuff as a kid, I remember a big old friggin video camera and chugging around with my friends and doing stupid stuff. If I had YouTube, my whole world would have changed. In some ways, I'm very glad I didn't have YouTube because those things are burned on VHS. They're not out there for the Internet to see. But I think that creative outlet is super fun. And so this idea of like, I can create something eventually get monetized in some way. Like, somebody's got to pay me for this content I'm creating is wild. And so I think it's going to continue to grow. I think the gap for creators is to figure out how to build a business, and the gap for businesses is to figure out how to be creative. And that's the unique chasm right now in the landscape is like a lot of really smart creators struggle to build livelihoods off of themselves, and businesses struggle to be creative because, I mean, look. Joe (0:25:09) - There'S obviously like a few creators that come to mind in b. Two B at the minute. The two guys that always come to mind, to me, they're not exactly creators creators, but like Will Aiken and then Tod Todd Klauser, they're just the two guys that immediately come to mind. But how do you see this going from where we're at now, where it feels like there's a small pool of creators influencers that are kind of hovering out there. Where do you think these creators come from? Are they going to come from outside of b? Two B. And companies are going to bring them in and say, hey, this is our industry. Go and create content. Go and take your skills and try and create content? Or do you think they're going to come actually from inside companies? And it's like, I know will used to be in sales and he's now transitioned into content creation. How do you think that will play out? Justin (0:25:50) - I would imagine it's going to come internal out. I mean, that's the route I've taken. I even have like, at a very small scale, I would not even call myself a creator, but that being said, I guess I am. It doesn't feel that way because podcasting and doing those things feels sort of natural. But when you take a step back, oh, most people aren't doing a podcast. Joe (0:26:16) - Most people and haven't got a clue. Justin (0:26:17) - How to do it and haven't got a clue how to do it or aren't doing video content. So it's a very small group. It's one of those things. And I feel like social media is awful for this, where it feels like, oh, everybody's making a million dollars a year, everybody's got a podcast and is killing it on YouTube and everybody. Joe (0:26:37) - Complete echo chamber effect. Justin (0:26:39) - Yeah, it's just like this massive thing where it's like you get on there and you're like, oh, everybody must be doing. And then I see a post the other day where it's a very talented content marketer puts a post on. It's like I'm trying to figure out how to pull clips from my webinar and it's like, oh, okay, there's a gap there still, right. And so I think just understanding how that sort of forms and functions is good and healthy, but, yeah, no, I think for most companies it's going to be. But it's a rare thing. Right? Like, it is a rare thing to find somebody who's a knowledge expert in, let's just say, your field or your product that you sell. That's also like, charismatic, is good on camera, has interesting thoughts. That's a rare person. That is a rare person to be able to grab and tap into. And so I think for these companies, yes, there will be more of them, but it's not the majority of people. It is the 5% or less of people within companies right now that would. Joe (0:27:44) - Even have that magic crossover of every. Yeah, and I think that's the ideal situation. Right. They are people that come up internally because all of their content is going to already be stemmed around the industry. If you've worked in sales, all of the content that you're putting out on TikTok, the podcasts that you have, it's already in that space. So it links so much easier versus if you're coming out from outside the industry as a creator, it's more of a difficult bit, I think, versus when you're internal. Justin (0:28:09) - Yeah, it's a massive lift. Try and imagine to bring somebody in to understand not only your company, which is a lift, but then your industry as well. Joe (0:28:17) - Yeah. 100% as a final queue on this whole creator thing. And I know we have slightly touched on it, but in terms of how these partnerships, in your opinion, how they'll pan out companies, do you think it's like a case of a company brings someone in and says, hey, we want to do this podcast series. Can you partner with us on it and you'll host it? Is it an external? Do you think companies are going to try and bring creators internally in again? Just what are your thoughts? Justin (0:28:40) - I would imagine they will test external before they'll ever spend headcount on it. It's just way cheaper economically. Even if you're paying a substantial amount, there's less overhead. And I think for the most part, the creator themselves would rather not. There's a whole wild economic side to internal versus external anyway, right? Like, do I go join a company? There's a lot of that that's going to happen and shift out. But from a company perspective, I think it makes sense to like, all right, let's partner with this person. Let's test it out. Let's see if we even have the capability to do this before we think about bringing everything in house and trying to do all that well. Joe (0:29:18) - The battle that you're always going to have with these creators is they're going to, nine times out of ten, probably going to want to work for themselves anyway. So it's like, it's going to be tough to bring them internally. Justin (0:29:26) - Yes, I think. Joe (0:29:27) - Awesome. Well, I've really enjoyed this. I think we've hit on both the video world, but also the creator world, so it's been a great conversation. I really appreciate you coming on. Justin (0:29:35) - Yeah, thanks, Joe. It's blessed. All right, I hope you enjoyed this episode of Distribution first, and thank you for listening all the way through. I appreciate you so, so much and I hope you're able to apply what you learned in this episode one way or another, into your content strategy as well. Speaking of strategy, we have a lot of things going on this year that are going to help you build your brand ten x your content and transform the way you do content marketing. Make sure to subscribe to the show and sign up for my newsletter at Justinsimon Co. So you don't miss a thing. I look forward to serving you in the next episode as well. And until then, take care and I'll see you next time. Joe (0:30:24) - Our close.