Anthony Ogogo

I texted him. I checked his phone all the time still, because I miss him I miss him. And then it's unfair that he's not here

Alex

Welcome to stories of men beneath the surface. I'm Alex Melia. Join me as we discover what it means to be a man in the modern era.

Today, we're hearing about a friendship between two men that lasted a lifetime. And what happened after a tragic loss. Antony met Dave Chapman when they were just eight years old. The boys were thicker. Steve's, they played on the same football team, and they became friends for life. Dave, or chapel to his friends, was a real landslide, the life and soul of the party. As they grew up until he and Dave spent a lot of time together. They sent each other voice messages all the time, and went on holidays together. But just before Dave turned 29, he was diagnosed with a rare form of bladder cancer. The diagnosis was terminal until he remembers going to visit him in hospital near his final days.

Anthony Ogogo

We walked in, and me and our other best mate Beza. Scott, were both tribulations to get there. So we started walking slower. Obviously, we're desperate to see him but don't want to see what condition is going to be in. As a supplier. He wasn't expecting us. And I was making us lay on a Saturday night like me because he was 29. And they all like 60 or 70 odd 80 on the ward. And everyone liked him. He was young and loud and funny. And he's just a nice, just very personable. And we walked in and we did the old handshake we always did. Lucado and I said we surprised them. And it's a bit like, a bit sheepish at first because being a proud man, he didn't want his maid to see him you know, the bedpan beside his bed. We didn't really do a file we want to be there for our friend that we love and care about as soon as we sat down me chapel and Beza it was like we were in year nine again on the school field to be in the city. being naughty, being loud. And there's this game numerous times to be quiet just been in appropriate region I've been in kids may were just laughing. They had a really distinct laugh as well. Like you knew the mood distinct cockney accent is mocking the accent so deep. That laugh was really loud. To me and him. You knew it was us to me like you knew it was us. But he was in so much pain. He was in so much pain. We would have hours he was a kid. He was young, they knew how in pain he was. And they saw him laugh, heard him laugh. And laughing is good for the soul rather than good for the body. So last day for a while, and then a bit too loud. And he was getting tired. So but listen to the skull. Give him a hug the missionary and I'll come see you next week and I saw Mr. Slim again. But in my head the last time I saw him is when I was a better if I can relive a two hour period. It paid me that because cuz it was just really funny. And it was really good. I text him I checked his phone all the time still. Because I just do

Alex

I'm obviously in the fortunate position that I've never had a friend die Touchwood but so I can't begin to imagine you expect your grandparents to die at some point not not a 30 year old best mate. I'm fascinated about the love between two straight men you know you've been mates all your life and I think there's something really beautiful and poignant about you still continuing to send him WhatsApp messages How did that start and why do you do that and what does it mean to you just miss

Anthony Ogogo

him I miss him and like yeah, just just miss him it really and then it's unfair that he's not here sad he's not here. Last thing he ever sent me last text he ever said I'm very tired my I'm soldiering on he had a good day yesterday. I was having a shower and a wash this morning so that's good. Got our keep a daily routine as much as possible. Awesome. Good lad.

Anthony Ogogo

So we can't have those balls getting smelly Henry. I sent a few more texts. Then he stopped responding she wasn't able to really respond. But I just never stopped really I've never stopped like Michelle May I said again next one would be taking the piss out and Mazur and Bezer on the WhatsApp wish you're here laughing with me recently my birthday and stuff just you know aren't like yeah, I it's just it's almost like not wanting to I know he's not going to text us back as really sad day. In my really sad day, I like texts. It's called David Chapman attacks like a week after you die and maybe for those authors died from David Chapman. But his dad's also called they were champion, and his dad wasn't saving my phone. So we came up with David Chapman and hot panic. Woodfox happened, what was going on, and that spun me out, I didn't like that. So I've had to decide if there's gambling and change it to like, just a different name, because I can't, I don't want to see his name. This cancer, which he had and eventually passed away from this so rare anyway, it's so rare. But normally when you get it, you're 60 and 70. So it's even 65 year olds you get it is really, really rare form of cancer, some sarcoma, but for a 30 year old to get it, they didn't even put together to do blood testing. Anyway, I made a bunch of my I went to the golf club mates had lunch, and he rang me on a Friday afternoon, and he said it to me. And he was like, I'll be like, why now? I'll be cool. And I'll get through and stuff. And typically chap are very stoic, very strong, very resolute. And then my customer might cause one way for you every step of the way. They come off the phone and rather walk in they really cry by my tears in my eyes. Like he's he's 29 he's a baby didn't mean was the feelings

Alex

going through your head so you that made you cry was like the feeling the loss that he's not going to be there in future?

Anthony Ogogo

You're gonna be there. I thought his fucking job He's tough as far as like he's not gonna any say he's 29 he's not gonna die from cancer 29 Like, that doesn't happen to me and like it doesn't it just did things that I never thought I always do is going to be there and I won't be this will do this and I'll be there for him. The boys will afford his mom goes great family. He's 29 Chapo was he was he was a lad. He was a proper lad Why'd he worked as a stack shelves as the Shabbos philosophy for most of his life was long as he's got a few quid to have a few beers and boys on a weekend and go out to a stand. He was happy. I can't talk

Alex

about losing a friend but I can think about losing family members and it feels like there's a void in your family or in your your network of people. Does it feel like that with David where you've got this social group you know you do you don't only stag dues and all your weddings together, but he's just seems like the you know, the life and soul of the party and he's just not there now. And is that what you're doing when you're when you're sending in WhatsApp messages and things like that? Is it because you're trying to fill that void?

Anthony Ogogo

I guess so. Yeah. So as funeral loving they and as emotional man I've always wondered pallbearers into the coffin in and turned up at the funeral and it was during COVID times. You can have 20 people in the funeral 100 people turned up hundreds of school workplaces, hundreds and tingles talking about it. And then we went back to me harder big Airbnb with a swimming pool and stuff afterwards. We had like the week celebration there. And we will soldier on because a gorgeous day in June of something funny would happen by something funny would happen with some fun and we said in our group, and I'd look and look for Chapo to tell him to bring men because me and him had the same humour. We were so like, we just loved everything. And like something funny happened. Fox chapels were here. This was Chapo Alpha. Rats, you know, he's not here. And the more drunk I got, the more free airflow got. I've got Chapo to go fuck, he's not here. And that was like, for me, it was like there's not a beer anymore to share these moments with you know, and actually, the seven of us are best at school, we're really, really tight. And when he passed away in 2020 that was either gonna bring us really closer six, like unbreakable brother to the rest of our lives. Or we're gonna like disperse, disperse. Like, we don't talk to each other much anymore. Whatsapp group is dead. And we just don't talk anymore. And this strange Hell, he was the glue, right? He was the glue that held us together. And I guess it's all like, all our memories are intertwined with one another. And I guess it's painful. We don't talk about love. We just don't talk much about I talk to him all the boys individually, also the ones I want to talk to individually. But like as a group in this setting? Like yes, kind of like he was. He was the he was the nucleus to glue. And now we've been gone. You've just kind of like, spread out and so much when he said

Alex

it's all like the synergy of two plus two equals five and it sounds like he was that person who made it

Anthony Ogogo

500% Even as a kid he was a teenager like he had this charisma and gravitas that like you want him around, and days were better when he was around, we'll keep talking about how funny he was. He wasn't just funny. And this is the sad part of our friendship that we were then developing. Our friendship was mainly like, born out of laughter and humour. And then the the year when he got got COVID, he was down in London, the Mazda, and for a long time, basically a whole year, Stan is on His house is just around the corner for me. So we'd spend a lot of time together. And we've had these long, deep flow conversations on the phone and in person, and not only in the hospital, which never had before, because our friendship was born out of human and school and funny stuff, and football, and boxing and sport. And then our friendship went to a whole nother level. And we started developing this, this understanding of each other. And we were like kinship, which we hadn't done before. And as we difficult when we were when we left because we just started scratching the surface of this and I said, Everyone kept saying like, how funny he was and now and he was his WorkCenters monkeys way more than that, like morally Australia's in our like, so find a good man made a real good man. Will real good man. David Chapman, it's been nice to share his story. He was a kid from East London slash Lowestoft, not many people are going to know him his name because you weren't the school the African Greys back up a little bit. statues that as the keystore is not nationally, it's not gonna be told forever. You know, it's just nice when I tell you a story, and let people know how much of a nice guy was and obviously, this is a human story. Every single person on the planet over a certain age has lost somebody or if they haven't, they're gonna, they're gonna lose somebody, it's gonna happen if you mentioned yourself, you know, thankfully, never lost anybody. A friend, similar age, and maybe you're gonna do you mean it's just gonna happen, you know, be and now five or 10 years time and this is hard. And the you don't expect it to happen. Nobody ever does straight to happen. But it happens.

Alex

I think there's a magic to when you've got a really solid friendship group, you know, you can trust them. And I realise every day I'm so grateful that I've got that in my life. But I recognise that a lot of people don't have that. And you know, there's something to be said about. You don't take these people for granted because you don't know how long they're going to be around for. nothing's guaranteed is it?

Anthony Ogogo

We used to laugh about wieskamp a snooker club me busy Chatbooks some of the boys and have so much fun again would be with with when we return up. From August 20 quid is Margot's that go off. Of course, I really grew up on the bottom there a bag that always get table nine. Because the first is the furthest table in the corner. And we could be your city annoying. And it was my boy Ward as well. Boy, boys, be yourself. And we were lumping around doing cartwheels and forward rolls and our floor because like we were playing we were playing so we'd always play the first time we lost. We'd buy half a pint of coke. I said I would lose. you'd buy a boost. So the first one as a five quid round for good round. Second one or two table below 50 increase so like perfect last each game that the tofu thingy to like the intensity would be like playing for the World Cup final. Like we'd be like what? Mueller did lose so and we all used to say it would be here we were at with current like old boys talking about Yeah, and unfortunately things don't happen the way you want them to always and I think whether it's people or moments as well like those moments like we had a real close friend we haven't really got that anymore because of situations that have happened I think it's about appreciating and really enjoying and being in the moment when you're in those moments because has it got me to death of a friend anything can happen and you can connect as best you can have kids you can you can people can move away

Alex

if there's one sentence to describe David Chapman what would it be if you put to put it on his gravestone?

Anthony Ogogo

Well I did We did some man for one man

Alex

can you describe what your what you what you meant by that and why you chose that?

Anthony Ogogo

He's in some fucking man. He's one man by some

Alex

analogy to describe it. A mountain of a man

Anthony Ogogo

a man of a man he got you pack so much of the charisma or humour, kind kindness, humility he is some man for one that is you know I did a speech at the at the after celebration and 10 things like 10 life lessons we've got to learn from Shabbos from his 30 years on this world and one of them was be you be unapologetically you because I like I'm a big mistake a lot of our friendship has taken us out of each other. And like I rip them to shreds day in and day out. He never changed. He never became more reserved and I love that about him. He was just he and Weiss would wear like naughty, naughty trainers. Like socks pull up to his kneecaps. I think that's original socks. which funnily enough, I do not leave the house now that were mad that's weaker socks. Like I've copied his style a lot because I've missed it in here. I will take the piss out of him. But now he's stolen is stolen is his wardrobe essentially.

Alex

Can you tell us Anthony about your upcoming podcast I know you've done four or five episodes so far.

Anthony Ogogo

It is the getting back up podcast with me Anthony Ogogo. I'll talk to people that have achieved great things their lives, but only after suffering a great setback. So I've talked to athletes that have achieved amazing things in their lives, but also regular people. They've achieved amazing things in our lives. And this is inspirational, inspiring people for those that are on the verge of giving up as I was for many years when I had my injury I was in the burbs given up once my boxing career but on life as well. I wasn't the verge of giving up. So I was always had listened to its prime minister it's kind of get me through one more day again, with one more day until I had enough hours to get myself good those days. And that's why I want to do is just to kind of just broadcast and highlight and spotlight people. They've had amazing stories.

Alex

Episode with Anthony made me reflect on whether we actually grieve the end of a friend's life the way that we would if it was a family member. And do we as a society overlook the impact a friend's life can have on our mental health. For me, personally, I would think of a close friend dying the same way that I would think of a family member or a partner dying is the shocking surprise of it because I'm 35 years old, if a close friend died, it's very different to if a grandparent died, for example, it was towards the end of their life. Really sad thing for me it was that it just felt like it was getting going. It finally started to talk about deeper topics, away from the banter and the jokes that you have with your friends. They started to talk about where their lives were going and the meaningful impact of their friendship, something they wouldn't even dare to speak about many years ago, which feels like a pretty similar journey to a lot of male friends. Is there a lesson there? Should we be telling our male friends what they really mean to us before it's too late? Because life is not guaranteed to anyone. My own experiences of close friends telling me that they love me or me telling them is usually on a dance floor when we're drunk at three or 4am. And as men, I think we want to get beyond that. We want to be able to tell each other in a sincere way how much they mean to us. Tell the people in your life that you love them.