Lisa Marie Rankin [00:00:00]:

In this episode, I am so excited to host the Goddess School's first male guest, Saul Luckman. He is an award winning and international best selling author and he offers unique and cutting edge resources for increasing energy, expanding consciousness and elevating your quality of life. Today we cover so many important, critical and timely topics like what is the nature of reality and how do we move through it. What is a mind parasite and how do we get rid of it. How to deal with the trauma inducing news cycle, how to protect your consciousness and how to create your reality and so much more. So pour yourself a cup of tea, you might even want to grab a journal and pen and let's dive in for this inspiring and thought provoking conversation. Hello beautiful listeners and welcome back to the Goddess School podcast. And today am very excited.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:00:59]:

This is kind of an epic moment in the podcast. We have our first male guest ever. So I am so pleased to introduce you to Saul Luckman. He is an award winning and international best selling author of human fiction and non fiction. And today we are going to talk about consciousness, the matrix. Some words that I think many of you might be unfamiliar with, but I think once you hear us talking about it, it's really going to open up a new perspective of how to move in this world weird reality that we find ourselves in.

Saul Luckman [00:01:31]:

So welcome Saul, thank you for that warm welcome. Lisa Marie, thank you for having me. Thinking of me. And it is such an honor to be your first male guest. That's amazing.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:01:42]:

Yeah, you know the podcast started really kind of focused on the Divine Feminine and I know you actually have a fantastic book. I'm halfway through it, C the Destroyer on the Divine Feminine. And yet it's starting to open up and shift and you know I came across your work on Substack and you know I've kind of started like devouring actually some of your content and I'm just really excited to bring you here to share your perspective with many of the women in my community.

Saul Luckman [00:02:10]:

Well, that's really kind of you and you know I really respect what you're doing and your, your book and your, your writing. Just in general it's very high level. You're, you're very bright and gifted and so for you to say that that really means a lot of.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:02:23]:

Oh well thank you. That means, that means a lot to me as well too. I wanted to start a little bit by talking about one of your books that I have here, get out of Here Alive. Which I think is just, it's just such a great perspective and map to start to navigate the kind of odd reality that we find ourselves in. And I think some of the terms that you use throughout the book and also the terms that you use in your substack might be new to my audience. Although I think once we go through them, it will start to kind open things up. And even for me, as I was reading, it's just like, oh, this makes so much sense. Like, this is such a great way of looking at the different forces that we find, you know, maybe pulling us in one direction or another.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:03:08]:

So I was hoping that we could start just by maybe defining a few of the terms. Is. Is that okay?

Saul Luckman [00:03:13]:

Yeah, that sounds great.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:03:14]:

Okay. So you talk about the Matrix, and, you know, we've got the Matrix, the movie, which is kind of similar, I think, to the Matrix that you're talking about. But for someone who's not used to using that word to describe maybe reality we're in, how would you define that?

Saul Luckman [00:03:28]:

Yeah, that's a really good question. And I would love to distinguish what I'm talking about and writing about from some technological matrix that we're plugged into. What I see going on here is that we're in a dream construct. I like to call it the dreamscape. And it is just a gigantic dream, and we are all players in this dream reality. And you can put all of that in quotes if you want to. Certainly, reality needs to go in quotes because there's no. No nothing outside the dream.

Saul Luckman [00:04:01]:

I see. Even if you want to look at this from a goddess or God perspective, I see that the being that engendered the construct did it through a dream. And we see that with Hindu mythology and other other things, Aboriginal dream time. Clearly, it's very plausible that we are participating in some vast dream, which is kind of weird and unsettling on the one hand, because dreams can be weird, but it's also very empowering because one can learn to control one's dreams. Ergo, we can actually learn to have great agency and personal power in the Matrix. As crazy as it seems at times, I like to say we can at the very least learn to walk between the raindrops so that we. We're not always getting wet as the world does its crazy thing.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:04:53]:

Could you give me a practical example that could kind of, like, maybe really help to further illustrate what you mean by kind of this dream state? Like, just a specific example.

Saul Luckman [00:05:07]:

Yeah. There are all kinds of different ways of accessing power and information by seeing this world as a construct and ourselves as dreamers. For example, Thomas Edison, he invented I Believe it was the light bulb. It was some major invention by learning to access the hypnagogic state between waking and dreaming. So he would, he sat back and this is how he, I think he invented multiple things by doing this. He would lean back in his chair, get very relaxed, be on his way to sleeping, and he would be holding some kind of ball in one hand poised above a metal trash can that would make a lot of noise when the ball fell into it. And it would wake him up out of that re. That state that he had just slipped into.

Saul Luckman [00:05:57]:

So he starts to slip into the dream and he, his hand relaxes, the ball drops, it wakes him up. And then he immediately thinks of what he was dreaming about. And one time he was dreaming of the light bulb. So talk about an aha moment. So that's just one, one way to access the vast library of Babylon that is the Akashic record of the dreaming world, if you want to look at it that way. Other, other tools include using your ability to lucid dream, for example, to learn how to become aware that you're dreaming in the dream and then go do things in the dream. Some people can actually go and get information. They can visit loved ones, they can do all kinds of interesting things in the dream.

Saul Luckman [00:06:46]:

And you can also cultivate chi or prana or kundalini in this process and come out extremely energized from lucid dreaming.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:06:57]:

Yeah, thank you for that. And a lot of my community are very familiar with the teachings of Carl Jung and he worked with dreams a lot too, as a way for our unconscious to speak with us and maybe to give us some wisdom that we, we hadn't considered. And looking at the dreams is more archetypal than, you know, as far as more of like a one to one reality. Is that at all to what you're talking about?

Saul Luckman [00:07:23]:

I mean, the, the archetypal approach to understanding or understanding dreams is certainly valid, but I'm actually, I'm actually talking about something that would be almost the opposite of archetypal usage. It is this idea that dreams are real, that they are real because there are only dreams. So if anything is real, then dreams are real. Otherwise nothing is real and it doesn't really matter because you're at that point in time, you're way beyond ontology or epistemology. You're almost just in pure semantics. It's just, you know, real, not real, who cares? It doesn't matter. It's all, it's all a fabrication of some vast imagination on the one hand, and some Very personal, individualized imagination. On the other hand.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:08:11]:

Yeah, thank you. Thank you for that. And where does the dragon fit into all of this? So you talk about the dragon in get out of here Alive. How does the dragon fit into this dream state or the matrix.

Saul Luckman [00:08:25]:

Yeah, I know, I know that you've written about the dragon from the concept of the dragon from a very different perspective as a kind of empowering, well, almost like a feminine archetype in a way of connecting with your inner dragon or I'm sure you've talked about it in various ways, but is that fair to say that you've come at it from a similar angle?

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:08:46]:

Yeah, I think I've come out of it maybe a little bit of different, like as you said, more of like kind of this feminine empowerment where we look at like a lot of like, kind of like modern fiction, like Game of Thrones with, you know, Daenerys and like these women heroes have a dragon at their back. So almost like this kind of like force to be reckoned with that kind of amplifies their power. But I think you use the dragon a bit differently.

Saul Luckman [00:09:11]:

I do, although I, I want to point out that in, in Kali the Destroyer, for example, which is goddess and her, her consort, the God. So it's really about Sophia Gaia on the one hand, and Thelete or whoever, whatever the name you want to give that, that being in Gnosticism it would be Thelete, that he is sort of her dragon in that story. If you want to look at. There's also a dragon that they face who is, is the Demiurge or the Lord Archon. So it's a, it's a sci fi tale, but it's also rooted in Gnosticism. So there's at least two kinds of dragons in that story. And the dragon that I'm talking about and get out of here live is the adversarial type of being. You could call it Satan, you could call it Lucifer, you could call it Wetiko.

Saul Luckman [00:09:59]:

In the Native American tradition, some kind of mind parasite. You could describe it as the trickster, a kind of Loki type of archetype. There are many different names for this being. In Mesoamerican shamanism, it's called the Flyers or the Mud Shadows. There's all kinds of names for this being that is a mental parasite that according to shamans and seers and lots of world mythology and archetypes, is a real force. There's a real mental being that came into this realm at some point. I believe this is recorded in Genesis in The eating of the apple and, you know, the serpent offering the apple to Eve and then the quote unquote fall. And we could talk about, you know, other interpretations of that.

Saul Luckman [00:10:50]:

I'm not genderizing this or judging, and I'm just saying here's a story, and I believe it's a story about the dragon coming in and saying, I see your species here as a mostly unconscious species. You're living in, you know, in harmony with, you know, the Mother Earth. That's great. But I see you wanting more. You want to eat of the Tree of Knowledge and you can't do that as a collective species. You have to grow an individuality. And I'm going to give you this apple. Like the computer, it's an operating system.

Saul Luckman [00:11:22]:

It's actually my mind, I'm not going to tell you that. But it is my mind that I'm going to give you to operate with as a so called conscious being. So we receive the apple, which is just the dragon's mind, and we use it as our own, thinking that it's our own. Even though there's all these crazy voices in there. Those are the voices of the mental parasite.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:11:42]:

Yeah.

Saul Luckman [00:11:43]:

So part of the path of awakening, if you will, to the dream, the path of shamanism, the path of inner alchemy, is to recognize this dynamic and then to cultivate ways of getting that voice out of your head so that you can think for yourself for the very first time. And it's, it's alarming and it's also very empowering in the end.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:12:07]:

Yeah, thank you for that. I really, I like the term the mind parasite because one of the things that I feel like I've been considering a lot and I've been talking about with my community and I want to get your thoughts. It almost feels like there's like this mass brainwashing. Right. With social media, you know, we, everyone, I go to the doctor's office, people are staring at their phone. People are like walking in beautiful parks staring at their phone and they're being fed content consistently. What you should look like, what you should think, what you should be outraged over. Would you say that that is a way that the dragon also sort of gives us the apple or gets into our brain?

Saul Luckman [00:12:47]:

Yeah. It's a modern iteration of what's been developing for centuries, obviously, you know, through, through the dissemination of more communication tools, more technology, there's been greater and greater control. You know, we hit kind of the print news media at one point, and then that became radio and then television, and now it's is delivered to this little thing that is sort of, you know, attached to your body. And probably eventually it will be something in people's brains. I mean, just. Just to be completely honest about where this is all going. So. But it's really a return to source, if you will, because it's just the dragon coming full circle right back into literally physically into your brain, into your thought, you're into your receiver.

Saul Luckman [00:13:32]:

I don't think of the brain as being the thinking part of ourselves. I think of it as a receiver and a transmitter. But, you know, that's. That's a little. That neither here nor there for the purposes of this discussion.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:13:44]:

Yeah. And I like that perspective. So thank you for explaining that. Okay, now one more word and then we can have, you know, more of the conversation. Is so what is luch?

Saul Luckman [00:13:55]:

That's definitely one of those controversial things that you'll see all kinds of definitions for. The way I use it is that it is energy that the human being gives off when it's traumatized. So you can be traumatized by, by world events, personal situations, bad finances. You can also be traumatized by relationships where you're like codependent. And you can sort of be traumatized by pleasure, traumatized by seemingly good things, like what's called love. It's not love, but we call it love. That can also generate trauma. Almost anything that gives you an emotional charge.

Saul Luckman [00:14:39]:

That is not something like you're following your bliss. It's not something that's welling up organically from inside of you, is potentially a source of loose creation. And the dragon feeds on this energy. It is, it's. It's what powers the dragon. If we all learn to take away that energy or food source from the dragon, it would either die, change, or leave.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:15:07]:

Yeah, yeah. And I feel like that's something I see and feel very clearly. And I feel it in my own life, like when I scroll through certain media, you know, this sense of like, polarization. And it actually almost even affects the way that I deal with people at the grocery store. It's a little bit more of like this us versus them mentality. So, you know, I'm very careful with what I put into my consciousness. But also the women in my community will tell me how stressed out they are, how anxious that they've been, you know, looking at something or hearing about something. Is that, is that sort of what you're talking about?

Saul Luckman [00:15:42]:

Yeah. You can think about the kind of the news cycle, the whip sawing good news, bad news, good cop, bad cop news cycle. The, the curated perfection of Instagram profiles of various videos. You know, this is a kind of method, metastasization. Is that the right word? Metastasization? I can't really say it right now. Yeah, so a metastasizing of, you know, older tendencies that came of age really, you know, with early TV and magazines and that kind of thing. So we see the perfection that we, what we perceive as the perfection of people's lives that we can never hope to aspire to. And that leaves us totally depleted as our energy, our loosh is, is sucked from us.

Saul Luckman [00:16:32]:

Similarly, the endless political games, the shame politics, all of it factors into a global strategy for extracting this energy from the human herd. Now a lot of people think that we're, this means that we are all going to die, you know, soon, some big apocalyptic thing is going to happen, but that's really not how it works either because the dragon needs us for its energy. So it can't kill everybody, not at one time anyway. So that's not likely to happen. You can kind of understand these doom scrolling tendencies, apocalyptic narratives, all these truthers people, you know, conspiracy theorists trying to get to the root of all of these very negative things as basically just witting or unwitting servants in a way of the dragon. I mean, it's just the way it is. I'm sorry to put it that way, but you're basically doing its dirty work whether know it or not when you're going down those rabbit holes.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:17:31]:

Yeah, and I, I feel that very, very strongly. And I know. So one of the things that I've been telling in my community, especially when people will come to me or, you know, they'll come to a live workshop or program and tell them how much the news cycle is affecting them, I will say like, well, stop, you know, stop watching it. Stop, stop looking at it. And then there is the reaction like, well, I can't just put my head in the sand. And you know, now is the act. What are your thoughts on that? And is there a balance between like not creating the loose and contributing and feeding the dragon versus putting your head in the sand versus like active alignment?

Saul Luckman [00:18:13]:

You know, I've got, I've got some lyrics that go like this. What if resistance is just another word for having no inner plan? What if you're not a free bird but just working for the man? So this need to resist to not put the head in the sand, it's exactly what we're taught because it's what works to keep us in the loosh game. And controlled. It's what controls us. It is the fool's wisdom of striking out on your own, with no clue how you're going to accomplish something that allows you to accomplish the impossible. And it is precisely sticking your head in the sand that. That permits you to dream outside the box of this dream construct.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:19:00]:

Yeah, I really. I like that. I. I know recently on Substack, you had a meme, and I actually trying to look for it before this conversation, and I couldn't find it, but it was something like, if you're not completely disturbed or paralyzed about what's going on right now, like, great, you might be able to do something with your life.

Saul Luckman [00:19:18]:

Is that right? And I really like that. If you're not outraged by what you're seeing, then congratulations. Now you can do something meaningful with your life.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:19:30]:

Yeah. And I think that I. I really liked that that resonated because I see people becoming completely paralyzed and completely, like, just so consumed and caught up with what they believe is wrong that they actually aren't doing anything. They're not moving forward. They're not experiencing pleasure. You know, their nervous systems are completely activated. So it's really stunting. Very personal level.

Saul Luckman [00:19:59]:

Absolutely. I mean, we're stuck in this fight or flight, culturally speaking. And, you know, we need to learn on a personal level before we can even talk about doing anything collectively. We need to learn how to unplug and reactivate the parasympathetic nervous system and learn how to begin to foster deep relaxation and healing and empowerment from within us. And I. I feel that inner alchemy is a fantastic way of doing this because you're. You're engaging in active dream practices that foster that parasympathetic activation and that allow you to visualize different possibilities from your current construct. So it's a.

Saul Luckman [00:20:43]:

It's a tremendous manifestation tool. It lets you take back your power from the dragon and then do something very productive with it that can provide not only health benefits, but longevity. And perhaps beyond that, that's a whole other discussion we could get into. But it's an amazing thing. So when you read about people doing miracles, when you read about alchemists living a long time, or perhaps forever, shamans flying, doing all these crazy things, even people like Padre Pio, you know, doing some of his crazy bilocation miracles, these are people who are utilizing the personal power that's made available by extricating yourself from systems that take away that power and building it up consciously within yourself. And you can do that, as I'm sure Padre Pio did the way he did it was probably through intensive prayer. So it's non denominational. It really doesn't matter.

Saul Luckman [00:21:36]:

What matters is going inside. I say it over and over again. The only way out is in. That's a mantra in get out of here alive. And then I have a follow up to that which is called out through the Indoor. And it explores other aspects of this equation.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:21:52]:

Yeah, and I love how your book too gives like practices that people can start right away. And I. You keep using the word understanding too, which I think is really important, especially in our culture where I feel like we always think everybody else has the answer somewhere else. You know, this five step plan or this. Instead of looking inward and kind of trusting with what. What it is that we know to be true.

Saul Luckman [00:22:11]:

Yeah, thanks for getting that because. And I didn't make up the term understanding. And some it actually came from, well, basically from conspiracy theorists talking about the legal system. But the way I use it is as you said to point out that you shouldn't be understanding someone else's interpretation of things. You should be understanding your own gnosis.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:22:33]:

Yeah. And I definitely think in our world, and lately I've been talking a lot about kind of the shadow side of like self help coaching and therapy culture where somebody always knows the answer. I think that that's a really nice antidote to that as well as looking inward. One of the things that you said too, that I think is really important and you know, it's one of. One of the threads that I'm weaving in 2026 is when we talked about putting your head in the sand and then dreaming different possibilities. I feel to some extent that we're almost in this like imagination drought where people have stopped imagining one, I think because they're just tied to their phones all day and they're letting other people imagine and create for themselves. But you know, when I was a kid, we didn't have phones, so we had nothing to do but walk around and imagine things. And like, it's so powerful and yet I feel like it's such an underused resource or that people don't even know how to imagine.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:23:32]:

I actually see my kids are on their devices too often. I'm like, don't you want to like think and like pretend and imagine? What are your thoughts on kind of the power of imagination and whether people can even access it anymore? At least some people.

Saul Luckman [00:23:48]:

Right? I mean, that's. You make a lot of really good points. You know that there are countries in the world that are making it illegal for kids under 16 to get on social media. And I think that's. They have different reasons for doing that, having to do with safety. But I think ultimately that's a good thing. I feel that this screen slaving that's going on, you know, to cite the Incredibles, is one of the most pernicious things in our. In the way that we're raising our children right now.

Saul Luckman [00:24:18]:

And that if you, if you look at it through this lens, it's the. One of the most debilitating things you could possibly do. I'm not saying that we can't use technology and easy access to information and creativity tools to do amazing things. What I am saying is that until you have learned how to access your own power, your own imagination, your own voice, your own dreaming, you're always going to be creating someone else's version of reality. What you're fed, literally, it's a feed. It's called a feed because we live on a loose farm and you're being told what to think, how to be, et cetera. It's just really debilitating. When you have the opportunity to grow up, to individuate, to become insouled, because we could talk about what I have to say about the soul, then you can use these tools much more consciously in, in an empowered fashion, where then you can also just put them down.

Saul Luckman [00:25:16]:

I don't even own a cell phone. I'm not saying I will never own a cell phone.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:25:20]:

That is amazing. And I'm very impressed.

Saul Luckman [00:25:22]:

And I'm not saying I don't use cell phones occasionally, but I don't own one that I carry around. So that is, it's very, very empowering when I share that with people. A lot of people are amazed. A lot of people are like, I wish I could do that. But increasingly I, I meet people who say, you know, they're on the same, they're in the same position. They haven't had one in years or they've never had one. And people kind of coming out of the woodwork. And I always say, Luddites unite.

Saul Luckman [00:25:52]:

You know, the people who were tearing up the factories when they're, you know, I'm not anti technology. I'm really not. Because I think we have to live in our era. We have to be, you know, in it. But you can be in it, but not. But not be of it. And that's, that's the distinction I would like to leave people with.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:26:09]:

Yeah. And I think it's very important too. And I actually, I'm very Impressed. You know, it's. I know when I go somewhere and I leave my cell phone, there's like first, like an initial, like, oh, my God, what would I. How am I going to live without my cell phone?

Saul Luckman [00:26:25]:

Right.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:26:25]:

And then there's like the sense of calm, like, oh, I don't have to be available. I can just like, enjoy the scenery. So it, yeah, it's definitely something I think, to play with. And I experiment with trying to leave it places. That's about as far as I got so far, but I am aware of it.

Saul Luckman [00:26:41]:

Yeah, it's amazing. You know, I mean, I grew up, I, I came of age in the 80s, right. So obviously we didn't have cell phones at the time. And, you know, it was possible to kind of slip off the grid of society and, and, and do things to really get off the map and have private adventures, as it were. You know, whether you're traveling or just walking in nature, doing whatever you're doing, you can literally not have that attachment line to other people's expectations. It's, it's, it's really amazing. Now, we can recreate that to some extent now, but it's, it's a lot more difficult. And it takes, you know, it takes a certain kind of lifestyle.

Saul Luckman [00:27:21]:

Obviously people have jobs and responsibilities that they pay, they've taken on, you know, that they've chosen. So people have to determine how important it is for them to live in a certain way. But I will say I don't think anyone, it would be incapable of taking a few hours off here and there or a day, a week or something, arranging it just to kind of clear your energy field because you're just really cluttered. You're, you know, someone looked at your aura from an energetic perspective and you've got all these thoughts and you've been receiving all these feeds. I mean, it's, it's. You're going to be a bit of a mess.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:27:57]:

Yeah, for sure. No, I think a digital detox, you know, is so, so important, especially in the morning. In the evening, I always tell everyone, do not like, be scrolling up until the point you go to bed or don't be grabbing your phone as soon as you wake up. Like, you need those times. Specifically, you need more. But I mean, definitely upon waking and sleeping, do not, you know, start scrolling through the media. Media.

Saul Luckman [00:28:22]:

Yep, absolutely.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:28:24]:

Now, I know your book gives some, like, great practices. Now, as I mentioned, I think for much of my community, some of these terms are going to be fairly new. But what would you say, like, for someone who's starting to be like, okay, I don't want to create all this loosh. I don't want to feed the dragon, and I want to start creating my own reality. What would be like, just one simple step to start with?

Saul Luckman [00:28:47]:

Yeah, great, Great question. Well, let me just say. Let me explain to folks who haven't read it how the book is divided in a kind of rough way. It's sort of in two parts. And before I explain what those two parts are, let me say that they're in. In shamanism, which is basically a technology of consciousness, it's a way of manipulating your own consciousness and. And building it out in different ways, there are a couple of different strategies for. For taking back your energy, taking back your power.

Saul Luckman [00:29:18]:

One is. One is a. A strategy of not doing things. It's actually called not doing. You see this term in Castaneda's work, for example. And then there are more active strategies having to do with learning how to go into lucid dreams and that kind of thing, which allow for cultivation of power through doing something. And it's usually something you've never done before or you didn't know how to do properly or very well. So the book is sort of divided in that way.

Saul Luckman [00:29:48]:

So the first half is about the not doings. I don't tell anyone, I don't recommend to anyone necessarily that they just jump off the deep end into inner alchemy or shamanism without having done a lot of not doing. And the not doing involves things like learning the power of your own silence. Learning went, as Will Rogers said, never miss a chance, a good chance to shut up. And you can use this very powerfully with your own thoughts, with that voice in your head and just not responding to it, not engaging it. You can extend this into social media and interactions. If someone's trolling you or whatever, just block them. You don't have to say anything, just block them.

Saul Luckman [00:30:30]:

Just pretend they don't exist. Or in a relationship or in a conflict, you can use silence to basically walk away literally or figuratively. Figuratively from the conflict. I mean, the great French president Charles de Gaulle, he said, you know, silence is the most powerful political weapon there is, so you can use it very, very powerfully. So there is a wonderful form of not doing that will get you out of a lot of scrapes and situations where otherwise your energy would be taken from you. And I know you felt it. If you're. If you're listening to this conversation, you've had conflicts and things where you just feel like you Know, you just need to go take a hot bath and go to bed, you know, whereas you're just.

Saul Luckman [00:31:07]:

You're just beat. And what you. What's happened is you've just been loosed by that exchange. And that energy doesn't really go to the person who's doing that. Kind of floats up around both of you and then it just goes right into the dragon's mouth.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:31:22]:

Yeah, I think, I think that is such great way to start, is just thinking about just the silence because I think everybody feels that they need to engage or, you know, they might have to have their last word where kind of just tuning inward and not engaging. Oh, that reminds me of something else that you say in here, and I might be paraphrasing, but in that. In the movie War Games, right, Like the only way to win is to stop playing. And I think that's what you're getting at here as well too. Is that correct?

Saul Luckman [00:31:52]:

Yeah, I love, I love that quote. I've used it many times and there's a bunch of different memes associated with it. Yeah, it's very much part of what I'm writing about here. The get out of Here Alive. This book grew out of a previous book that's on my sub stack. It's called the World Cult and you. And in that book I called the dragon the Great Parasite. And I called the construct the game board.

Saul Luckman [00:32:18]:

So it's this massive game board and what you're learning to do is find ways to essentially not play by the rules of the game board and to create your own rules within the construct with an eye towards perhaps getting out of the construct at some point. And that's really the ultimate subject of Get Out Of Here Alive is how to you exit the construct and move on to other worlds that you might play a major role in creating dreaming. There's a great little meme because you've been talking about my memes and I've been on a meme.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:32:54]:

You've great memes.

Saul Luckman [00:32:55]:

Well, it's like. I mean, they're, they're fun. And one of these. And I don't make all these memes, I make some of them. But it's basically, it was this wizard. I can't remember the exact language, but it's this wizard with like a little something in his hands and he says, don't talk to me unless you can create a fully functional, miniaturized universe. And what he, what he's getting at is this idea that if. If you are learning how to become a creator, like the divine Creator that created this world.

Saul Luckman [00:33:28]:

You can start small with your mental energy. For example, in. There's a lot of liter. Esoteric and paranormal literature on things called tulpas and egregores, which are basically thought forms that are materialized into existence by adepts, for example, in Tibet, who learn how to create a servitor, a little. A little helper. And it. They're so real that these things can do. Do things.

Saul Luckman [00:33:55]:

They can go bring you stuff. Other people can often see them. They're actually being dreamed into existence in the construct by the power just of the imagination. So that is the first step towards actually being able to create a kind of little miniaturized universe. And if you can do that, then you can learn to create a whole universe and you can become a creator, God or goddess.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:34:18]:

Yeah. Oh, I love that. And I. It's just so empowering. And I think that, again, goes back to imagination instead of always focusing. And I, for me, you know, I've been kind of talking about it too, is like shifting from what's wrong consciousness. Oh my God, everything is wrong, and I'm wrong and the world is wrong, to what's possible. What is it that I want to create? How do I want to live? And how can I just start doing that now?

Saul Luckman [00:34:40]:

I like that. Yeah, absolutely. For me, those are the questions, you know, like, what, what. What do I really want? What. What is my desire? I mean, we even live in a world where, you know, we're. We're shown all of these images to make us desire things and people on the one hand. And then we're taught that desire is bad. At the exact same time, one.

Saul Luckman [00:35:00]:

One hand giveth, the other hand taketh away. It's part of the whole loose extraction. It's meant to confuse us. And, you know, basically, and this is where the shadow work comes in. Because unless you're willing to embrace the parts of you that have been denigrated, that have been basically, you know, swept under the. Under the carpet, under the rug, or put in a dark closet somewhere, you really can never integrate fully enough to access all of your power because you are all of those things. You're all of the things that you hate.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:35:32]:

Yeah, yeah. And I think that's really hard for a lot of people to understand. It could be like, we could look at things like, I am nothing like that. And it's like. But there's such that strong kind of resonance. It's like, but are you sure? Or should you be a little more like that?

Saul Luckman [00:35:48]:

Yeah, it's like, you know, There's a great Carl Jung, you talked about him earlier, of meme. It's him with this really funny look on his face, all kind of a knowing look, almost a grin or a mischievous grin. And he's saying, nice shadow you've got there. Would be insane if someone integrated it.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:36:05]:

Yeah, I like that. I also just wanted to jump to your other book, Kali the Destroyer, and that's Kali with a C. Because in my community we work with the Kali with the K a bit, although of course it's part of Kali with the K. So I haven't finished this yet, but I'm pretty close. And it's just such a fantastic book and a beautiful way to, I think, explain some, like, more esoteric concepts. But can you just give us a little bit of a summary of it in, in your own words? Because I think my aud will be very interested in learning more.

Saul Luckman [00:36:34]:

Yeah, sure. You know, I think you could put this novel in, in the dystopian category, generally speaking. I, I think it's way beyond that and it's kind of dystopian with a twist, but if you wanted to kind of situate it in the realm of things like Hunger Games and Handmaid's Tale and, and that kind of thing, then that works for me. That, that's, that's pretty accurate. What makes this different is that it's also a story. It's a retelling of the Fallen Goddess scenario that John Lamb Lash writes about in not in His Image, which is a book that I highly recommend. It's basically the idea that what is called the Goddess is actually a goddess and it's a being that came from galactic center or whatever that is. You know, if you're not into the idea of space and this being came to this area, actually accidentally fell out of the center of the galaxy, spun through space, created a group of rogue hive minded extraterrestrials called the Archons, which would be like our older brothers and sisters, and then became the planet that then gave birth to the human species.

Saul Luckman [00:37:44]:

And here we are today, living on the body of the Goddess. And so that's the, that's the Fallen Goddess scenario in a nutshell. And within this, within the Gnostic text, there's this idea that the Destroyer, so Kali the Destroyer is supposed to come forward at some point and essentially melt down the simulation of the Archons, meaning the mental virus that creates this illusory experience of a controlled reality. And so this Destroyer is designed to do that. And so I took this idea of the Fallen Goddess. And I created a character named Callie, spelled with a C, who is in a futuristic dystopian world where the south has risen again and, and there's a massive segregation. She is like a rock star. She's a pop star.

Saul Luckman [00:38:37]:

And. And then all these things start happening to her. She has this wild mother. She meets this young boy named Juice who lives in another village, so he is of another race. That's not cool in her world. So they have a kind of illicit love affair that goes on. And these, this pair is basically twin flames, if you want to use that language. And they end up realizing they're kind of on the same mission.

Saul Luckman [00:39:03]:

And their mission involves embodying aspects of these divine beings. It's very, very intense. They end up traveling to a realm where they meet the high priestess of the Goddess and that plot unfolds and there are Illuminati and wild sci fi things going on. It's quite a tale. And I won't tell you the ending of it, but what it trends toward is this idea that there is a luminous child. And this comes from one of the Gnostic texts, and I use it as my epigraph. The Sophia, the Aeon Sophia. She tells the Lord Archon that you're blind and there's actually this immortal child of light, this luminous child that's going to show up right when you think you, you've taken over the world and controlled everything.

Saul Luckman [00:39:50]:

And it, and this, this, this child is going to undo everything you've done and it's going to reveal it to the whole world and your power will be destroyed.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:39:58]:

Yeah, it's fantastic.

Saul Luckman [00:39:59]:

The book is about that theme.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:40:02]:

Yeah. Thank you. No, and it's fantastic. It's been like such a pleasure to read. We read a lot of books in my community, so I'm hoping to, you know, make this one of them later in the year, because I just think it will. It's just a beautiful perspective and I think it's. That it, it's fiction, but it's also a teaching novel as well too. And I think it inspires imagination, which is, again, what I think is just so critical at this, at this point in time.

Saul Luckman [00:40:28]:

Yeah, it is. I mean, you know, you could say it's a little bit didactic in that way. I tried to make it interesting and sexy and, and adventurous and all of that. But there is certainly an intention to use this story to share some larger concepts, some. Some metaphysical and physical principles having to do with the nature of the construct. I talk about Loosh, obviously, there you have your baseline of Gnosticism and your archons and the Lord Archon and the people serving the archons, the, the minions doing the, the bidding of this hive consciousness and how that works. And yeah, it's pretty, pretty wild stuff.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:41:06]:

Stuff. Yeah, it's interesting. Like when, when you talk about it, if you're not kind of familiar, it can sound like very. Yeah, like very sci fi or very dramatic. But then if you look at it, it's kind of like, oh, I can see how we're living that too right now. And you know, sometimes the things that we think are very surreal, we're like, oh, it's not really that surreal. It actually feels like it might be happening.

Saul Luckman [00:41:30]:

Yeah, it's funny, I, I brought that novel through. I kind of downloaded it right on the eve of COVID And so I had gotten, I was well into the book when a lot of the, the COVID agenda started rolling out. So people will see. It's almost as if it seems to be copying reality. But the funny thing is, is that I got the whole plot in a dream sequence or in a one night period before any of that started happening.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:41:59]:

Wow, that is really interesting because as I was reading and actually I've been listening to it, I have it on audible. I actually do need to get the book because sometimes I listen. But I, I seem to understand things better when I read as opposed to listen. But I must, I almost thought that you must have written it after Covid because it was so, it was so foreshadowing that, oh, this must be your take on it. But that's really interesting that you got that download before.

Saul Luckman [00:42:24]:

Yeah. And people who knew that they, they, they were contacting me going, I, I can't even believe this. This is wild. How did you know this was going to be happening? And I'm like, you know, I don't know, I just, I got this download and I wrote it. I wrote it as it was.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:42:37]:

That's amazing.

Saul Luckman [00:42:38]:

Yeah, I mean, I, I mean I've been tracking a lot of the things that went down in Covid having to do with, you know, the injections and all that sort of thing. And, and so I was, I was aware of some of the potential agendas and all of that. And yet, you know, I'm at a point now where I still don't think it's important to really do all of that. You know, that it's still, if that's your life, not just. I'm not talking about being aware of things, I'm talking about being emotionally Connected to things that you're boost by. You can be aware of all that you want to be as long as you have time left over to do the inner work. That's my, my opinion. But if.

Saul Luckman [00:43:12]:

If it becomes like a. A lifestyle and you're fighting the good fight and, you know, all you can do is look out at the world and see all these people who have all this nanotech running around inside them or whatever from whatever which may be true, then, you know, I mean, what a sad way to live. What a waste of. What a waste of your life and your consciousness. I'm just. Sorry, I mean, to speak so bluntly, but there's so much more interesting things you could be doing. I mean, almost anything is more interesting than that.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:43:37]:

Oh, completely agree. Yes. There's any. So much more interesting things that you could be doing. Yeah. And if that's, you know, and that's really one of the things that attracted me to your content is just being able to kind of remind people of that, that there are choices they can make and the realities that they create. And I. That that's just.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:43:57]:

That can't be stressed enough in our culture where it seems like people want to go down these rabbit holes or people want to be, you know, pointing fingers at us versus them as opposed to just living a creative life.

Saul Luckman [00:44:11]:

Yeah, you. You made me think with the rabbit hole thing. There's a. There's an effect that you've probably heard of, the Mandela effect, that I've written some on recently.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:44:19]:

Yes.

Saul Luckman [00:44:19]:

Based on this new book called the Mandela Dilemma by this Australian writer named Johnny Flynn. And it's really, really brilliant. And the reason I bring this up is because here is a way of kind of becoming aware of some of that conspiracy theory stuff. You know, this idea that memories have been perhaps changed or that physical phenomena like the logo. Is it. Is it Looney Tunes with two two o's or is it Looney Tunes like tunes T U N E S, that kind of thing. Is it, you know, does the, the Monopoly man have a monocle or not? So all of these things that have. Basically, according to one camp, they've created these essentially false memories where people are just somehow misremembering en masse, which is an absurd notion if you ask me.

Saul Luckman [00:45:04]:

This fuzzy trace theory and all this stuff. Or there's something far weirder going on where we're actually seeing reality being edited.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:45:14]:

Oh, how interesting. Yeah, I noticed that you've been posting on that. So yeah, I'm gonna go dig a little bit deeper.

Saul Luckman [00:45:19]:

So so Johnny calls it his model, the hollow conscious universe model. And it's very similar to the model that I've been developing for years over Potentiate your DNA is one of those books. And it's this idea that consciousness underpins. Consciousness is the thing that is not physical that predates what we perceive as the physical. So there is no going back to the big bang, the beginning of the physical, without entering the realm of pure consciousness. So what underlies the game board, the construct, the dreamscape, is just pure consciousness. There is nothing there except consciousness. And, and it is both an active force and a realm of storage.

Saul Luckman [00:46:03]:

And you could compare it to something like a computer system where you have your memory, your data, you have all the previous versions, and things can be edited at that storage layer that then manifests in the holograph or in the construct afterwards. And the Mandela effect is this really playful thing that you can begin studying that shows this happening. And Johnny's book is brilliant because he basically debunks all of the debunkers that. And he shows that this can only be interpreted as a metaphysical paranormal phenomenon based in consciousness.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:46:40]:

Yeah, that's so interesting. And it's so wild to think about, like, reality being edited.

Saul Luckman [00:46:45]:

Right. So the, the, the ultimate punchline is that we are people who can edit it, that we can become powerful and knowledgeable enough to access the storage files, the base layer, and edit aspects of at least our own reality. Yeah, this is like manifestation on steroids.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:47:06]:

Oh, I love it. I mean, and it's just so, so empowering. And, you know, so much of the antidote to the world is happening to me in this kind of victim consciousness state is like, what is the reality I'm going to create?

Saul Luckman [00:47:18]:

Right, right. That's well said. Yes.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:47:20]:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for, for coming on and for sharing all of your wisdom. If there's anything you would like to leave the audience with, do you have any guidance or, or wisdom? And also how can people find you, connect with you? I'll have everything in the show notes.

Saul Luckman [00:47:39]:

Thanks for that and for asking me if there's anything I'd like to share. I would say I can be contacted at, or you can follow my work@sAulluckman substack.com that's my main hub. Yes, my books are on Amazon, all that kind of thing. But where I post the most content, the most varied and original content and exclusive stuff is over on my substack. So please come by, check it out. You can do a free subscription, you can do a Trial subscription, blah, blah, blah. So that's cool. I've been contemplating this idea, you know, that we're in the year of the horse right now and what, what that might mean.

Saul Luckman [00:48:15]:

And you know, we come, we came out of the year of the snake. So I'm very curious where the energy will go. I have a painting, I also paint a painting I did years ago that I've shared in relation to this idea. And the painting is called Unbroken. And it's this mustang, just the head of a mustang. It's really like intense and looks like this unbroken horse. Like, you know, you can't mess with it. So I'd like for all of us to pursue our own understanding in 2026 of what it means to become for the first time again.

Saul Luckman [00:48:48]:

You know, however you do it, to become actually unbroken in ways where you feel broken and you can, you can take that to mean whatever you mean. It can mean healing and it can also mean freedom, so. Or other things. So I wish that for, for everyone that that can come into your life because that would be an extremely. That would make 2026 an extremely empowering year. Yeah.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:49:12]:

Oh, thank you. Thank you for that. And yeah, your substack is fantastic. I'm a big fan and that will. That will be in the show notes. And thank you so much for your time today.

Saul Luckman [00:49:23]:

Well, Lisa Marie, thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure. You asked great questions. Maybe we can chat again sometime. I, you know, I'd love to get into your work. So, you know, I do some interviews over on my substack, so maybe we can do that at some point.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:49:35]:

Oh, that would be fantastic. I would love that. Thank you for joining me for this episode of the Got a School podcast. I hope it sparked your imagination and expanded your vision for what's possible. If you're ready to explore these concepts more deeply, reclaim your personal myth and live with greater creativity and enchantment, I invite you to join me inside Enlivened my Divine, Divine Feminine Mystery school and sacred community where we bring these teachings to life through ritual, story coaching, and of course, real world action. You can find the link to learn more in the show notes. And remember, the goddess isn't a deity outside of yourself. She's an aspect of your highest self.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:50:20]:

You are the goddess. Until next time.

Saul Luckman [00:50:26]:

Sam.