[00:00:00] There was one summer, I remember everything in my life was going well. My marriage had taken a turn for the better. We were happy, and there was even some flirting going on. We had four children, and the youngest was one, and sleeping through the night. I was feeling great as a stay at home mom, taking care of the kids.

[00:00:23] Things were going well. And I remember being really uncomfortable. And feeling like, when is this all going to go away? And it didn't go away. And so do you know what I did? I self sabotaged. I said to myself in the kitchen, I remember looking at the stove going, I am bored. And I look back now and I understand what happened.

[00:00:44] I was so used to chaos and stress and trauma and drama as a kid that this felt really uncomfortable. And so I ended up breaking that cycle of peace and happiness. And creating chaos in my life.

[00:01:05] Welcome to Asians breaking ceilings. I'm Jeanny Chai, founder of Bamboomyth.Com and confidence coach for Asian American female professionals. The goal of this podcast is to ignite your confidence, to empower you to overcome imposter syndrome. So you can finally break that career ceiling and get what you want in life.

[00:01:26] In episode 11, we're finishing a three part series. We're talking about the negative effects of guilt. And if you ever have had overthinking be a detriment in your life where you can't make decisions or you're staying up at 3 a. m. in the morning thinking about things or you want to make a decision but you feel guilty that you are letting other people down, then this episode is for you.

[00:01:49] So we're going to give you some strategies on how to finally overcome this and realize this is not a way to live to your best potential. If you want to find out what your biggest roadblock to success is, you can take the free assessment that I created for you for Asian Americans at the show notes.

[00:02:07] Or at asiansbreakingceilings.com/quiz. Please do leave a written positive review for me at podchaser. com. And I'd be so grateful. Now let's jump into our show so that we can help you achieve authentic success without the stress.

[00:02:32] Hello, ceiling breakers. Welcome back for another episode. I want to ask you. When you were growing up, what was the general environment of your home? Did you feel like you had freedom, you lived in peace, you woke up excited for life, you were happy, you were free of worry, and that things were relatively easy?

[00:02:55] As I say this, I feel so bad because I know almost every Asian I've talked to who has moved from a different country or has Asian immigrant parents, that's not our case. We grew up with a lot of responsibility, which included stress. Many of us were taught to be academically focused academically, and so there was always constant, pressure to be good, to be perfect.

[00:03:20] A lot of us grew up in poverty, and we knew our parents were stressed out and tired, and so we watched them be sad or depressed and picked up a lot of their emotions. If you grew up in poverty or chaos, You're more likely to remain comfortable in that condition than you are when there's peace and joy and freedom.

[00:03:42] Many of us had parents who had difficult times and maybe the marriage wasn't great. And so we saw fighting. We even saw worse things than that, which I won't talk about in this episode. And so many of us honestly are more used to having chaos, right? And trauma and stress and difficulty in our life. And when there's a moment where there is this silence, it's almost deafening.

[00:04:03] And it's almost uncomfortable, because I know many of us I've talked to have said, it's almost uncomfortable when things are going well, because, and then you'll say one of two things, I feel like the sky is going to fall, when's the next bad thing that's going to happen? Or when's the next shoe going to drop?

[00:04:20] And so many of us are living with this feeling of we're hoping for good things, but we're almost always expecting the worst. And I believe some of comes from our heritage, our background of growing up in difficult conditions. And you don't have to be Asian to feel like this, right? You can be a immigrant from another country, from Europe.

[00:04:37] I talked to many people from Ukraine, Romania, et cetera, where there is a feeling of if we're lucky, if things are going well and we don't know when that luck is going to run out. The problem with this is that as humans, whatever we're used to as children tends to be the pattern that solidifies, that hardens.

[00:04:57] And then when we grow up, we are very familiar with that pattern and change anything different. To that puts us out of our comfort zone. That means if you grew up with anxiety and a lot of hardship, when you're happy, you're out of your comfort zone and it feels terrible and you're actually anxious. And so we're going to talk today about how these things came to be.

[00:05:19] And I wanted to have awareness and realize that a lot of the things that we overthink about. I'm going to share many different categories of that today. You don't have to take that on anymore because you're no longer living in a time where there is anxiety. There is scarcity. Now there is danger. There is a lot of trauma.

[00:05:40] Most of us are in a much better place than when we first grew up. We have the financial freedom. We have a comfortable home. We have a stable job and yet our mind. It's almost like it's living 20 years in the past. It's almost like PTSD. If you've been through something difficult, you're afraid it's going to happen again.

[00:05:58] And so I hear this many, many times. If a parent went bankrupt or you went through poverty, you're living in constant fear that's going to happen again. If you We're a big disappointment or something happened in your life where you disappointed someone you're afraid that's going to happen again if you made a mistake in your past and now you're afraid the same thing's going to happen or if you lost a job you're so afraid again that you'll lose another one and so we think it's going to repeat itself we feel history is going to repeat itself and our brain is so sure that we feel anxious when it doesn't repeat itself and we almost self sabotage we almost make that you Thing happened because we're so uncomfortable when we are not experiencing the same pattern over and over again.

[00:06:41] And that's why folks, many of us who have had difficult pasts continue to struggle and live in anxiety and live with worry. And I'm going to teach you today what that might look like so that we can finally break free from these things. And again, I didn't understand this until I realized. Wow, stress is not good for you.

[00:07:00] Stress can cause cancer. Stress is meant to be a signal, an alarm, where we can fix something and, and feel better. It's not meant to be a week long, month long, year long kind of thing that you're just used to. But I know for us, many of us growing up that way, you know, from kindergarten 18, That's how we lived and so that pattern is now stuck in your brain and in order to change that it completely is possible so don't worry that it's genetics or your DNA or your personality if you are a worrier or you have anxiety or you feel guilt a Lot for the decisions you're making and you don't want to disappoint people.

[00:07:38] I understand you. I've been there I've been there most of my life and yet I have finally learned to break free from that And I'm gonna share with you the kinds of things I used to do That were guilt motivated, that caused a lot of overthinking, that now I realize is unnecessary. So you ready? One of the things I had was a lot of relatives.

[00:07:58] My mom was the first of, I think, eight children. My dad was the middle child of like 18 different siblings. And so I have a lot of relatives. And it always felt like in an Asian family, you're only allowed to be as happy as the least successful, unhappy relative, right? Like everybody is supposed to go and help the one uncle or whoever that's having a hard time and you know, life has been hard to him and we have to, we have to help him and if anyone else is too happy or celebrating their life, it almost feels like you're being selfish.

[00:08:31] So there's this weird concept where if someone is suffering in the extended family, the rest of us have to suffer and we're supposed to give to him so that it balances things out. And I think this is a terrible, terrible norm because the reality is if you have that many relatives, You're never gonna be happy, right?

[00:08:48] There's always somebody who's more miserable than you. And if you're not allowed to be happy because they're miserable, well, no one's going to be happy. And so, do you understand what I'm saying? You have a cycle, don't you know? Don't you see in your family where there's a constant source of stress or shame or embarrassment or, difficulty.

[00:09:06] Trauma, and it keeps shifting from family to family, person to person, and no one is allowed to be free. No one's allowed to break out of that and say, I'm tired of this. A lot of this causes overthinking then when things start getting better for you, right? If you had a chance to go to college, I've heard this a lot of times.

[00:09:26] If you were the first one, I've heard people say, instead of feeling proud, instead of feeling a sense of accomplishment and happiness, I felt guilty. Right, that none of my other relatives got the chance. I was the only one. Why did I get so lucky? And there's this guilt, happiness guilt, which again, causes more stress and doesn't do you any good.

[00:09:50] Right? Almost. There's almost nothing where guilt causes you. to be motivated, unless you did something terrible. That's not the kind of guilt we're talking about today. We're talking about unnecessary guilt. Guilt where you feel like you're letting people down, guilt where you feel like you're selfish for having too much or being too happy.

[00:10:07] My father was one of those people who he was the only one of his brothers and sisters who came to the United States. And as a result, even though he was a graduate student and we weren't making a lot of money, he felt obligated to give everyone else money. And that turned out to be a big fight.

[00:10:23] If you go back and listen to the early episodes of the season, it turned out to be a big fight where my mom thought we were being too generous and he wanted to give more money and we couldn't figure it out. And so this sense of guilt causes sadness. It causes fights. It causes. a rift and it definitely causes worry and anxiety because you feel selfish for enjoying all that good luck.

[00:10:51] You feel selfish enjoying all the good fortune on your own. How does this affect you? Possibly many of us are in difficult situations right now at work and maybe your company has seen some difficult days. And people have been leaving, for various reasons. And what I hear oftentimes, very often, especially the Asian Americans, is that we are the last ones to leave.

[00:11:14] They'll say, three years ago we had a reorg, this happened, that happened, the culture got a little bit difficult, and so many people have left, and I'm the last one here. And on one hand, that is a strength. You have resilience, you have loyalty. However, what if you thought about leaving over and over again, because there've been other opportunities for you, but the reason that you're staying is because you don't want to let your team down.

[00:11:40] Or the reason is because I'm not a quitter or I can't let my new hires down because I just hired them two months ago. And if I were to leave, it'd be like betraying them, right? That is guilt. resulting in overthinking, which means that we don't put ourselves first, right? We end up being the martyr. We end up being the ones who will take a hit.

[00:12:06] With our career, we're the ones that give up our happiness and the reality is no company, no company and no person should be that important that if one person leaves the company, everybody else suffers, right? That means you're doing way too much work. If you feel that important, you're probably stressed out.

[00:12:28] You're probably doing way too much work and not delegating enough, and so instead of feeling guilt for leaving, I'd recommend that you start looking at what do I want? Right? The antidote to guilt is to be able to say, what do I want for my health, for my career, for my security, for my happiness? And so many of us, our meter is so far off.

[00:12:55] We're so self giving. We're so good at suffering. We're so resilient that you have a lot of ways to go before you'll ever become selfish. And so you need to reset your meter and let yourself not be motivated by guilt. Because here's why. When you're motivated by guilt and you constantly tell yourself or blame yourself for making decisions that you feel.

[00:13:22] put you in a better position, or you make decisions that get you out of difficulty, but other people stay there. You're going to get better and better at this. You're going to get better at guilting yourself. And over time, what we have is now a neurological problem where You have built connections in your brain where you automatically, you automatically will go to anxiety, sadness, even depression if you think about letting other people down.

[00:13:52] The problem is you're here on earth not to live for other people. And this is where we're going to get into conflict because I know for Asian families, one of our greatest norms is that family sticks together. And I want to break that myth today because honestly, I see a lot of toxic families out there.

[00:14:09] Families where. They have banded together and said, you know, one kid is the ugly black sheep or one kid's skin coloring is too dark and she's not pretty, or this kid is the the dumb one. There's so many families that will outwardly talk like this and damage. And really emotionally abuse one member that person really needs to leave in order to heal and recover and yet in the name of family, we all stick together.

[00:14:35] We do these potlucks. We see each other regularly and that poor person. Or the people, multiple people who are getting emotionally abused continue to get sicker and continue to lose their confidence even more and more. And I know this because a lot of these women come to me in their 40s and 50s and they've lost all of their voice, they've lost all their confidence, and they're the ones who are getting taken advantage of at work, right, because all this works together.

[00:15:01] If you have been beat up, By your relatives and your family doesn't protect you, the same thing is going to happen to you at work because again, what we are used to as young children ends up being the exact comfort zone that we're going to attract and create for ourselves when we grow up. And so this is not your fault.

[00:15:21] Many people I know, including myself, used to feel angry that I was such a pushover. There were moments of clarity when I could tell that I was not benefiting myself, that I was actually hurting myself by not speaking up or making certain decisions that were for other people, but I couldn't stop. And I was angry at myself that I saw what was happening, but I still didn't know how to protect myself.

[00:15:43] Again, this is not your fault. Guilt could actually be addictive. Many of us who are used to chaos and used to pain and suffering and blame and stress, there's an adrenaline rush, that is accompanying the way that we live. And when we don't have that adrenaline rush and things are actually easy and peaceful and calm, We go into withdrawal.

[00:16:08] Our bodies feel almost uncomfortable, like what's wrong? Why is there no stress going on? Whereas that should be the normal way that you grew up and lived. But if you're not used to that, it's gonna seem strange. So again, we can grow up being taught all kinds of things that are not good for us, but because it seems normal, We will continue those patterns throughout life and so for a moment, would you think with me?

[00:16:36] What are some? characteristics and Habits of yours that you have learned about over thinking putting other people first putting yourself last feeling guilty for receiving Feeling guilty for having too much happiness or being happier than other people. Maybe they'd be jealous because of your good fortune.

[00:16:59] What kinds of these habits have you formed that are now hurting your career, that are hurting your personal life because it keeps you stuck in these patterns of stress?

[00:17:14] Before we continue part two of our program, if you'd like to know what your biggest roadblock to success is, go ahead and take the free 12 question quiz I've created for you. It's in the show notes called free assessment. And if you'd like to follow me on Instagram, I will keep you notified of when new episodes come up.

[00:17:35] If you've been enjoying this podcast, my greatest ask for you is that you would share this with your friends and colleagues so that we can all support each other. Now, let's get back to our program.

[00:17:52] Many of us, including myself, used to feel like if it's too easy, you're getting away with something. If it's too easy, you're being lazy. And so we'll pick things that are the hardest. What I mean is that we'll pick the most difficult projects in which the clients have been known. Right. To be a total pain in the ass and we'll do it.

[00:18:11] We'll go, we'll figure this out for my company. I'll figure this out for my company. And, and do you get more money? Do you get a raise? Do you get recognition for picking the most difficult client? No, but again, we're so used to stress that we will go for that project. And then when you start burning out, when you start having insomnia.

[00:18:31] Right. You wonder why this has been so difficult. And the reason is because you pick projects and you pick people and things that really don't set you up for success. And my dear ceiling breakers, this is an internal problem. It's not that everywhere you go, problems find you, but somehow in your upbringing, in your environment, you have learned that easy.

[00:18:55] Easy is a cop out. Easy is a shortcut that's bad. And so you will always go for hard. And you know what? Hard and challenging in terms of problem solving and having something that's worthwhile doing, that's fine. But the kind of hard I'm talking about that you don't want to have is when people are rude.

[00:19:15] When they're disrespectful, when you put up with doing things that are boring, when you put up with things that are way beneath what your capabilities are, right? When you put up day after day with toxic personalities or political silos that don't get you anywhere, when you put up with a culture that is discriminatory, that kind of bad, no one needs to put up with.

[00:19:38] And I find over and over again, it's the Asians who get stuck in those situations and, which is fine, everyone gets stuck in those or has those come at you, but it's the Asians that stay there and don't realize I have the obligation, I have the ability and I have permission to let myself be happier.

[00:19:58] Because again, happiness oftentimes is not our motivating determinator, right? We don't make decisions based on happiness. Many times we make decisions based on what we call being practical, right? Or responsible. And I want to address this next because many times I've heard people say, you know, I'd rather be doing X, Y, Z.

[00:20:18] I'd rather be going for a job or starting my side hustle that I've been thinking about for years. But. But I, that seems irresponsible. My family needs me. I'm the breadwinner. I'm the one with the health care for the entire family. And they don't say this out loud, but what they're saying is I'll sacrifice my happiness.

[00:20:37] I will stay in this job that gives me stress. That doesn't feel like fulfillment. That is just something that pays the bills because I want to be responsible. I want to be practical and I don't want to hurt my family or let them down. Well, the difficulty of thinking this way... Is that I call it overthinking, who's to say that if you got a better job or started your side hustle that you wouldn't be full of happiness and joy and inspiration that would actually even influence your family more, that you could afford more things in your life and have a better impact on the world you live in.

[00:21:14] But many of us see things as a, as a win, lose, right? If I do this totally, it's going to be a win. If I do, this is going to be a loss. And that black and white thinking forces us to choose one of those things. And because we're taught again to save face, we're taught again to be sacrificial, to be martyrs.

[00:21:32] So many of our parents, mothers growing up, especially, did you feel like they had this competition almost as to who has more stress in their life? Are they, I, yeah, you know, my child, this and my uncle, that, and I've got this problem and that problem. It's almost a competition to see who has more stress.

[00:21:48] And let me tell you, that is no way to live. Right. Stress. I don't want stress to be my reward. I don't want to be number one in that category. I'd rather have happiness be the reward. But I don't remember very many conversations about happiness growing up. Right. I remember lots of conversations about hard work.

[00:22:06] Right. About not being lazy. About being practical, responsible, being, no time to have fun. That is a big theme I see as well. Somehow we create responsible and practical with having no fun. And so many of us know what we like. We would like to play volleyball. Many of us want to travel. We want to go to Australia and New Zealand and Europe, all those places we haven't seen.

[00:22:28] And we'd like to go, four times a year. But again, when I leave, so and so needs to take over for me. And I've already used my 20 days of vacation. And so we don't let ourselves enjoy. Because we feel guilty. And again, this kind of overthinking of the only person that benefits is, I don't know, maybe your company benefits from you being so hardworking, but you don't benefit, your family doesn't benefit and your health is not going to benefit.

[00:22:54] And if you, if you think like this, and this is how you make decisions, right? Year after year, guess what? This is how your whole life is going to be. It's going to be one big sacrifice of you making decisions based on guilt. And I used to live like that. And let me tell you all the areas that I used to feel guilty about.

[00:23:17] I would buy something and return it and buy something and return it because it felt too selfish to have something new that I wanted, that wasn't a need, right, that I wanted. Because when I was a little girl, we didn't buy anything extra. We had food. almost no toys, and we had, school books, maybe, but we didn't purchase those.

[00:23:38] And we had one pair of shoes we wore for years and years. And so it felt really bad to buy something new. You've probably heard of my previous episodes. I used to buy everything at garage sales. Not because I liked them, but because they were cheap. And because I would feel guilty buying something at full price, right?

[00:23:55] Because it's too expensive. How many of you feel that all the time? That, again, is a guilt motivated way of thinking. And it keeps us in scarcity mentality. It keeps us saving money, but really how much are we living in my business? I feel a lot of freedom. I feel a lot of joy. And sometimes when I meet my old colleagues, I'll go, wow, you're so lucky that you have that freedom.

[00:24:22] And I feel bad. I feel a little bit guilty that they're not experiencing that freedom. And then it causes me to almost shrink in my business. I don't go out there and get even more success because I feel they'll be even more jealous or feel more bad. And so I'm making decisions based on random people. I don't even know being jealous of me.

[00:24:40] That is a form of self sabotage folks. How many of you have not left a job because you feel guilty that the transition is going to be a bear for the person who tried the three people who try to take your place, you know that you're leaving such a shit show that they're going to have a lot of mops and buckets to clean that.

[00:24:57] But you know what, what I say, it's not your monkey, not your circus. If your company has such a position that is so bad that nobody wants it, you don't deserve that. It's not your problem. And so we need to cut those ties when they're motivated by guilt, because you know what? No one's gonna watch out for you if you don't, no one is gonna just hand you a box of happiness if you don't start learning how to make decisions based on having freedom, allowing yourself to have joy, allowing yourself to have a sense of fulfillment and definitely allowing yourself to no longer live with anxiety and worry and thinking about other people's opinions or your reputation because of something you do that you think is gonna be selfish.

[00:25:46] No one really thinks that much about you Honestly, they're just at home eating their eggs. And so all this overthinking about who am I gonna hurt? What are they gonna think of me? A lot of those never come to fruition And so the only person that's being hurt by all this guilt is you it's just you and so we end up living lives That are ho hum That could have been much happier, much earlier.

[00:26:11] There's this nurse who worked with hospice patients. And she wrote a wonderful article that you can Google and look up. I'll put the resource in the show notes. And it's the, it's the called The regrets of the dying. And the number one thing that everybody said was not, I wish I'd worked more hours at work.

[00:26:28] It wasn't, I wished I was nicer to other people. It wasn't, I wish I disappointed less people. You know what it was? It said, I wish I let myself be happier. I wish I let myself be happier, but how many of us learn that as a skill? It's really a skill. It's not personality. It's not in your genetics, right?

[00:26:48] And again, if you look at the closest people that you grew up with, did they know how to be happy? And if the answer is no, you deserve happiness. And you learning and teaching this to any children you have and the people around you is going to make a bigger positive impact than you guilting yourself and thinking that you're making choices for them when in fact it doesn't really affect them that much, what you do.

[00:27:15] We're taught to save face. Right. And what is saving face? Saving face is basically making sure no other people feel guilty is helping other people to not look bad. But oftentimes when we're saving face for others, we're creating a little war inside ourselves, right? We're causing resentment. We're self abandoning.

[00:27:36] We're doing something that's hurting us for the sake of other people that it may or may not actually affect. We're afraid of calling out other people's mistakes. We're afraid of making other people look bad at work, and so we'll hide things under the rug. In, in countries, China, Japan, Korea, Singapore, perhaps there is a precedent for that.

[00:28:01] And you need to be looking at the cultural norms there, but I know for Western countries, hiding mistakes only creates more issues. And so you are allowed if there is a problem, if you know that you are not set up for success, you need to start making sure your supervisor, your teammates, and the people around you realize that this might not be humanly possible to do, because if you keep quiet and trying to not make others Feel alarmed because you're too nice to, be a burden and then the whole thing goes down.

[00:28:34] You're going to be blamed for it. And so one of the tips I teach my clients right away is if you're not set up for success, start talking about that. Start letting people know the expectations are really low that this is going to succeed. Or I need this headcount. I need this support in order for us to get appropriate positive results.

[00:28:54] And there's no guilt in that. . Many of us do not like to give other people quote unquote bad news because it causes them stress again in corporate America. Very different. It's better to get the bad news out. So there's a chance to fix it instead of letting the bad news fester and get worse and worse until the problem is unfixable.

[00:29:13] And so we need to, we are allowed to change our mindset on this. We're allowed to give ourselves permission to have freedom, to use our intelligence, to use our compassion, to use our leadership skills, to be who we are without being afraid of disappointing others, of hurting their feelings. Those are all guilt motivated actions.

[00:29:35] Psychological safety, an idea by Amy Edmondson. Is a wonderful concept that we need to create teams and workspaces, even personal spaces where we are allowed to be ourselves. How much are you tiptoeing around other people at work because you don't let yourself be you. If you weren't afraid of feeling guilty, what would you be doing different in your life?

[00:30:03] If you were not afraid of feeling guilty and you gave yourself a chance to be happy, how might your life look in the next six months? Would you delegate a lot of the tasks that you don't like? Would you have a conversation with your supervisors and your team about modifying your role so that it actually brings you joy?

[00:30:25] It brings you happiness, brings you more fulfillment. Would you actually be getting your resume ready and leaving your current department because you see it as a dead end and letting other people's other people help you and figure it out and give your chance, give yourself a chance for a reset. Would you be starting that side hustle that's been on your heart for years and years and years?

[00:30:51] Would you be starting that book? Would you be doing something for yourself and having, spending more money delegating stuff that other people can do, such as the chores, such as the cooking, such as childcare, so that you have a chance to live right now, not when you retire, but a chance. To have joy every week through activities that you love, through seeing people that you care about through giving yourself the rest, rejuvenation, and comfort that you deserve every week, not just once in a while when there's no work, if you didn't feel guilty anymore, but other people's opinions.

[00:31:33] Or taking actions that other people don't disagree with because you want to be true to yourself. What else might be easier for you in your life? What might you do different this week? Take some time. Journal. Write yourself a list. Your bucket list. Your bucket list doesn't have to start when you retire.

[00:31:54] Cause the reality is you might be too old and creaky to do a lot of these things. And the reality is if you don't practice happiness and joy now, you will not know how to be happy and joyful. When you retire, you'll just look for the same amount of stress and anxiety and chaos that you've been used to all your life.

[00:32:11] So happiness starts now. Happiness is the antidote to stop living a life fueled by guilt that causes anxiety, depression, worry, and does not lead to a happy, fulfilled life. Guilt does not make good leaders either. And so if you want to be. The best leader that you can and unlock your potential, it is time to start living from joy, motivation of what's good for me.

[00:32:39] What's good for everybody. And it's not necessarily about who is suffering the most, who is giving up the most, who is taking one for the team most. Those kinds of actions don't lead to success for everybody.

[00:33:00] We've come to the end of episode 11. Where we talked about overthinking and how often it's motivated by guilt. Guilt that causes anxiety guilt that causes overthinking causes us to worry and stay up late doubts our own decisions and Usually chooses actions that benefit others that we think benefit others But most of the time hurts ourselves living this way is no life And if these are norms that are keeping you stuck you have permission to stop living like this and being motivated by happiness.

[00:33:36] Next week in episode 12, we're going to discuss how to keep your confidence up before you need to meet someone who feels like they are your superior, or perhaps someone who you feel is a bit more qualified than you.

[00:33:54] How do you turn your confidence on in those times so that you don't become anxious, mess up your words. And show up a smaller version of yourself.

[00:34:05] If you've enjoyed this episode, please do give me a positive five star rating on Spotify or iTunes, wherever you're listening to this. And more importantly, please share this with your company, your friends, any Asian Americans who you want to support so that we can all become ceiling breakers and experience authentic success without the stress.

[00:34:25] See you next week.