Katie Flamman:

Hello and welcome to storytelling for business,

Katie Flamman:

the podcast that helps you build bigger, better, brilliant

Katie Flamman:

relationships with your customers by telling stories

Katie Flamman:

they want to hear. I'm investigating the power of

Katie Flamman:

storytelling to help you connect with your clients, build better

Katie Flamman:

business relationships and lasso leads. I can't believe we've

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almost reached the end of season three, and that means it's time

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for a toolkit. What's a toolkit? Well, in this episode, I'm

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pulling together the themes that emerged across all the

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conversations this season, and summarising all the lessons we

Katie Flamman:

learned into a handy toolkit so you can put them into action,

Katie Flamman:

into your business, marketing, you're welcome. This season, my

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guests talked about creating understanding and empathy

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through storytelling, the courage it takes to share your

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own story honestly and vulnerably, how to notice when

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you're stuck in a story you didn't choose, empowering your

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audience by inviting them to co create stories with you,

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recognising the motivation behind your story and the legacy

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it will leave. It's a lot to cover. But don't panic, because,

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as usual, I've got an acronym to help us remember everything, and

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this season, I'm keeping it super simple, S, T, O, R, Y,

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story, funny that so let's go. S is for self awareness. Are you

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comfortable with the real you have you grown into your

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identity? I've got three great examples where my guests

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answered this question. Let's start with Louise Callan in

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Episode 23 talking about how her mum's Alzheimer's has reframed

Katie Flamman:

her identity. I didn't

Louise Callin:

get my grades a level. I messed it up, and I

Louise Callin:

went to do a computing degree. As I have progressed through my

Louise Callin:

career, actually caring about people, solving problems,

Louise Callin:

teamwork and actually trying to make a difference. It landed

Louise Callin:

every day for me in my corporate world, what has become and

Louise Callin:

what's emerged through my mum's experience and my own experience

Louise Callin:

of being a carer, I've just changed those dynamics a bit

Louise Callin:

actually, what really matters to me is how my 30 years of

Louise Callin:

experience doing what I do can actually make a difference to

Louise Callin:

people I am so passionate about, carers and people that do this

Louise Callin:

as a job, they are the most under celebrated group of

Louise Callin:

people, as far as I'm concerned. So if you are listening to this

Louise Callin:

and you're a carer, thank you so much for what you do. You do an

Louise Callin:

incredible job that is at times, very stressful, very hard work,

Louise Callin:

and I can promise you that six years ago, I had no idea just

Louise Callin:

how important your role was, and now I do. So thank you.

Katie Flamman:

In episode 26 jardin izzoli talked about how

Katie Flamman:

great it feels to express her personality in her 1980s vibe,

Katie Flamman:

but how she was initially worried, what would people

Giada Nizzoli:

think I only feel like my real self when I'm

Giada Nizzoli:

dressed 80s. So if someone yet, people can't hear me. I have a

Giada Nizzoli:

perm, I've got big loop earrings, I've got a pussy ball

Giada Nizzoli:

blouse. I'm wearing a houndstooth pencil skirt, and I

Giada Nizzoli:

have shoulder shoulder pads in some of my outfits and so on. I

Giada Nizzoli:

got, you know, full on it is makeup and everything, and it

Giada Nizzoli:

just makes me feel like I'm expressing myself. And it took

Giada Nizzoli:

me a while to be honest, like I think people, people who already

Giada Nizzoli:

know me and have been following me on LinkedIn might be

Giada Nizzoli:

surprised, because I'm usually quite you know, I show up in

Giada Nizzoli:

videos and photos and everything, but it took me a

Giada Nizzoli:

while to feel comfortable with really bringing that,

Giada Nizzoli:

incorporating that into my business brand, I used to, I

Giada Nizzoli:

used to show up with more. I used to tone it down. Because I

Giada Nizzoli:

thought, you know, people are not gonna think I'm

Giada Nizzoli:

professional. People are gonna think my my strategies are

Giada Nizzoli:

outdated because I look like I'm from the 80s. I was like, You

Giada Nizzoli:

know what? I feel like myself when I'm and I think it's, I

Giada Nizzoli:

think it shows more because, because I feel confident, I feel

Giada Nizzoli:

happier. And a lot of people, when I show up on video calls

Giada Nizzoli:

the time, like, Mama, you're glowing today. And I think that

Giada Nizzoli:

only happens when I'm dressed 80s. So I'm not gonna, I'm not

Giada Nizzoli:

gonna tone that down anymore.

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Another guest who prefers not to tone it down is

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Lisa Ward from H 2o energy. She kicked off episode 25 laying it

Katie Flamman:

all out on the table.

Lisa Ward:

My mother taught me how to turn a nickel into a

Lisa Ward:

quarter and make spaghetti last till Thursday. You know, life's

Lisa Ward:

experiences is what qualifies us, and sometimes we think that

Lisa Ward:

if we don't have the best degree or the biggest job, that we

Lisa Ward:

can't do the most important things. And it's usually common

Lisa Ward:

sense or having conversations, and that's kind of one of the

Lisa Ward:

things about my story, is that I'm not afraid to be an

Lisa Ward:

icebreaker. If you want to talk about it and you want to sit

Lisa Ward:

down and have that hard conversation, I'll have at it. I

Lisa Ward:

might not say the words as pretty as you, I might not be

Lisa Ward:

able to talk as fancy as the next guy, but I'll talk that

Lisa Ward:

truth. It's as flawed as it comes and as flawed as I am, if

Lisa Ward:

you'll have that conversation with me, how we can make this a

Lisa Ward:

better place for the next guy. I'm all in.

Katie Flamman:

Jada Louise and Lisa all showed up as fully

Katie Flamman:

themselves. They shared their stories of who they are,

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unapologetically, vulnerably and really honestly. And that's so

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important if we want clients and potential clients to trust us,

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they need to see the real person, the true story behind

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the business. In episode 24 creative director Andy

Katie Flamman:

greenhouse said the best way to achieve this is by using video,

Katie Flamman:

even if it's just you filming it yourself.

Andy Greenhouse:

So if you're a small solopreneur, business

Andy Greenhouse:

owner, or you're a CEO, you want to people, or you're a coach,

Andy Greenhouse:

you want people to get to know you potentially. And video is

Andy Greenhouse:

like the easiest way to get to know somebody before you've met

Andy Greenhouse:

them, and you will. And if you both do it, you will, there'll

Andy Greenhouse:

be something when you finally meet. There won't be this weird

Andy Greenhouse:

awkwardness. It could because you already know each other,

Andy Greenhouse:

even if you haven't, kind of had a call together, because you

Andy Greenhouse:

kind of, if you do it enough, you know, people do get to know

Andy Greenhouse:

you. So that was, that was really part of the point of it

Andy Greenhouse:

as well, or it became the point of it. You know, it's much more

Andy Greenhouse:

about well, if you haven't tried it, it is really great way for

Andy Greenhouse:

people to understand you as a person.

Katie Flamman:

Another way you can connect with an audience is,

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of course, in person. In episode 21 story spotters, David Pullen

Katie Flamman:

and Sarah Jane McKechnie talked about having self awareness when

Katie Flamman:

you're giving pitches and presentations. In

David Pullen:

fact, we often when we're working with people

David Pullen:

and especially on a particular project. We, we have these three

David Pullen:

areas of presence, warmth and power that we we, we always sort

David Pullen:

of judge, or sort of, yes, we have a tick box. And it starts

David Pullen:

with, as I said earlier, the presence of, does this person

David Pullen:

look in sounds as if they don't want to be anywhere else except

David Pullen:

right here, right now? And then, it's the warmth. Do they look in

David Pullen:

sounds as if they if they have taken the other person into

David Pullen:

consideration? And then, and only then comes the power, which

David Pullen:

is, do I believe their values? Do I believe their their system

David Pullen:

of belief? Do I believe what they're saying to me? And I

David Pullen:

think too often, going back to what we said earlier about

David Pullen:

people being time poor and sort of having KPIs and things like

David Pullen:

that to hit in business, we we sort of go, I've just got to get

David Pullen:

all my power out without considering those two incredibly

David Pullen:

important bits of presence, and as you say, the warmth.

David Pullen:

Sarah Jane McKechnie: I mean, because that's what leadership

David Pullen:

is. It's bringing people with you. I mean that that's thing,

David Pullen:

isn't it? It's and we, we, that's why we have to think

David Pullen:

about what we say in certain situations and and I suppose

David Pullen:

what, what we do is we, we help people understand the story that

David Pullen:

they're in in any situation, and allow and and give people the

David Pullen:

the wherewithal to be able to decide, okay, How the easy ways

David Pullen:

of how we're going to tackle this. Now

David Pullen:

it's funny, I'm about to start a project next

David Pullen:

week with a big client, and they're working on a massive

David Pullen:

pitch for a piece of work, and I can almost guarantee that I'll

David Pullen:

walk in there on Tuesday morning and they present their first

David Pullen:

draft to me. It'll be something about they're going through

David Pullen:

their credentials and everything, and my first job

David Pullen:

will be saying, can please, can you start by saying something

David Pullen:

that you've learned about them through all the site visits that

David Pullen:

you've been on? Just connect, just show that you've been

David Pullen:

present and that you've listened and that you've understood. So

Katie Flamman:

as well as having self awareness, being

Katie Flamman:

comfortable in your own skin and owning your own story, you also

Katie Flamman:

need to be aware enough to understand that it's not all

Katie Flamman:

about you. You have to be yourself, but also think about

Katie Flamman:

who you're speaking to and what matters to them. This duality

Katie Flamman:

was emphasised perfectly by podcast creative Natalie Jameson

Katie Flamman:

in Episode 22 it

Natalie Jamieson:

all. Comes down to authenticity, because I

Natalie Jamieson:

think the way that I've always approached interviews is that

Natalie Jamieson:

it's never particularly been about me, because I've always

Natalie Jamieson:

been servicing like a different editorial agenda, or working for

Natalie Jamieson:

somebody like the BBC or something else like that. And so

Natalie Jamieson:

it's trying to get out the story that best serves that audience

Natalie Jamieson:

and the things I think people will be interested in hearing.

Natalie Jamieson:

And if you're always having that in the back of your head,

Natalie Jamieson:

whatever you say is always going to be different to the next

Natalie Jamieson:

person, because you're different from the next person. So I think

Natalie Jamieson:

really tap into kind of what interests you, or interests the

Natalie Jamieson:

sort of vision that you've got for whatever work or interview

Natalie Jamieson:

that you're trying to do, and hopefully you'll always get

Natalie Jamieson:

something refreshing and different from the next

Katie Flamman:

person. That's a brilliant tip. And I do always

Katie Flamman:

say, Who are you talking to? Who's your audience? But that's

Katie Flamman:

that's absolutely vital with whatever piece of content you're

Katie Flamman:

producing, actually, if you're, if you're doing some kind of

Katie Flamman:

marketing or media production, if, if, if your audience isn't

Katie Flamman:

interested, then what's the point? Right?

Natalie Jamieson:

Yeah, exactly. And you know, I when I first got

Natalie Jamieson:

into journalism and entertainment journalism,

Natalie Jamieson:

specifically, it wasn't about me. It was always because I was

Natalie Jamieson:

really curious and wanted to share stories or films or TV

Natalie Jamieson:

shows or theatre shows or bands or music that I'd discovered

Natalie Jamieson:

that I really wanted other people to find out about as

Natalie Jamieson:

well, so then I could chat to them about it, because I was

Natalie Jamieson:

that geek that wanted to, oh my god, like something amazing

Natalie Jamieson:

happens in this film, in this particular scene, and I really

Natalie Jamieson:

want to chat to other people about it. And there's a really

Natalie Jamieson:

great recognition when you get that with an audience or with

Natalie Jamieson:

people, where you feel like you've connected on some level.

Natalie Jamieson:

And yeah, it's an utter joy love

Katie Flamman:

that authentic connection is, as NAT says,

Katie Flamman:

utter joy. And we all need as much joy in our lives as

Katie Flamman:

possible. Okay, S is done. Let's move on to the letter T, which

Katie Flamman:

stands for truth telling. In episode 27 coach supervisor

Katie Flamman:

Helen O'Grady talked about this, or rather the opposite of truth

Katie Flamman:

telling. Here's Helen on the stories we tell ourselves, which

Katie Flamman:

often aren't true, and how much damage they can do. The

Katie Flamman:

Helen O'Grady: most common thing that I work with people around

Katie Flamman:

is self belief and confidence and the inner critic, and that's

Katie Flamman:

whether I'm working directly with coaches. Because I

Katie Flamman:

supervise coaches so often, that's a narrative around, am I

Katie Flamman:

a good enough coach? Would somebody else have done it

Katie Flamman:

better? What? What did I do wrong? Why has that client

Katie Flamman:

disappeared on me, that kind of stuff. And in leadership, again,

Katie Flamman:

I can't speak up at this meeting. I'm, you know, I don't

Katie Flamman:

know how to performance manage this person I'm struggling with.

Katie Flamman:

I work with quite a lot of social workers. I'm struggling

Katie Flamman:

with the families I'm working with because I'm intimidated by

Katie Flamman:

them, or I'm young, and they're much older, and I don't have

Katie Flamman:

children, and they have children. And so that's very,

Katie Flamman:

very common, and often that is around the stories we tell

Katie Flamman:

ourselves. So you know, I often describe our protective voices

Katie Flamman:

that say, Oh, are you sure you shouldn't be doing that? You're

Katie Flamman:

not good enough. That voice gets very loud. The voice that we

Katie Flamman:

tend not to use, that we use with other people, is you've got

Katie Flamman:

this hang on, you know what you're talking about. You've got

Katie Flamman:

lots of experience. You're doing your best? Yeah, you're, you

Katie Flamman:

know, we're not comparing to somebody else. So like, for

Katie Flamman:

example, a junior doctor saying, I don't know what to do in this

Katie Flamman:

situation. We all have that. But actually, internally, we go

Katie Flamman:

without even realising I should be doing my should. Word should,

Katie Flamman:

isn't that dangerous? Yeah, you know, I talk about, and that's

Katie Flamman:

what I'm often doing in coaching, is picking up people's

Katie Flamman:

language where they're not even hearing how they speak to

Katie Flamman:

themselves, which is, I should, I should be doing this, this. I,

Katie Flamman:

you know, I can't do it. I don't know that that kind of stuff, so

Katie Flamman:

I don't know whether that's a specific enough example, but I

Katie Flamman:

think, yeah, that's brilliant, so common across everybody. And

Katie Flamman:

what I try and do is coaching is get underneath, how do I speak

Katie Flamman:

in this meeting to what's the story that you're telling

Katie Flamman:

yourself, and how can we change that story?

Katie Flamman:

In episode 24 Andy greenhouse talked about

Katie Flamman:

exactly this.

Andy Greenhouse:

I've always been, always been curious about

Andy Greenhouse:

my own brain, because it never didn't really seem to work like

Andy Greenhouse:

other people's brains. So. So I would just kind of write stuff

Andy Greenhouse:

out, and I'm not very good at speaking, or this is the story I

Andy Greenhouse:

tell myself, right? I'm not good at speaking. So if ever that

Andy Greenhouse:

gets back into my head, then it will like it's right there. Now

Andy Greenhouse:

that narrative, it's right there. I'm speaking to

Katie Flamman:

you. Well it can shush. You're doing very well

Andy Greenhouse:

and writing, I could express myself. I could

Andy Greenhouse:

express how I really feel so and you know, I recognise that other

Andy Greenhouse:

people

Katie Flamman:

got something from that. Andy is constantly

Katie Flamman:

looking for the truth about who he is, and he's recognised that

Katie Flamman:

his story, like a lot of hours is constantly evolving. If

Andy Greenhouse:

there's a part of you that feels like it hasn't

Andy Greenhouse:

finished something, it doesn't necessarily mean it's the end

Andy Greenhouse:

and that's and, you know, you've closed the book on it. And I

Andy Greenhouse:

think it's really easy to think that it is, you know, it's

Andy Greenhouse:

really easy to think that, Oh, I've, I'm now, I'm defined as

Andy Greenhouse:

the video guy, whatever. You know, I've got to continue doing

Andy Greenhouse:

that. And, you know, reading or writing the story that was kind

Andy Greenhouse:

of accidentally written, maybe along the way, I can't change

Andy Greenhouse:

it. And actually, that's not the truth.

Katie Flamman:

So we can change our own stories. But of course,

Katie Flamman:

the very act of holding space for ourselves, honestly telling

Katie Flamman:

the truth, is vulnerable as

Andy Greenhouse:

somebody who can't do elevator pitches,

Andy Greenhouse:

especially when they're talking about themselves. Because, yeah,

Andy Greenhouse:

I think what you touched on is a confusion, creative confusion, I

Andy Greenhouse:

guess I'm calling it right at this moment, because create. I

Andy Greenhouse:

think creativity generally, you don't have to define it, but in

Andy Greenhouse:

business, in the business world you do. And I guess over the

Andy Greenhouse:

years, I have defined myself as different things. And right now

Andy Greenhouse:

I'm kind of in the mix of at the point of bringing everything

Andy Greenhouse:

together. So bringing you know, my design background, my video,

Andy Greenhouse:

everything together. So I would say, I try to be a creative all

Andy Greenhouse:

rounder, I suppose, but that doesn't help people understand

Andy Greenhouse:

what you do. So I say, I'm the video guy, you know, yeah,

Andy Greenhouse:

although that's just one part of it these days,

Katie Flamman:

in Episode 25 Lisa Ward opened up about the

Katie Flamman:

effect of this struggle to juggle different parts of her

Katie Flamman:

life.

Lisa Ward:

I've had a lot of setbacks, you know, like I said,

Lisa Ward:

I even went through a potential after 40 years. We I almost, you

Lisa Ward:

know, lost a marriage, and my passions and the things that I

Lisa Ward:

did, it's all real, and I I'm not afraid to talk about I don't

Lisa Ward:

want to bleed all over everybody. But we're not alone.

Lisa Ward:

We're not isolated. And if more people knew, there would be

Lisa Ward:

more, I think, sympathy and compassion, because we all go

Lisa Ward:

through the same struggles, and a lot of times it's pressure,

Lisa Ward:

it's the business pressure, it's the the idea of what defines

Lisa Ward:

success. And I think that that adds a lot to the table, and a

Lisa Ward:

lot of that burden, we carry that baggage with us. And I did

Lisa Ward:

it. I couldn't find my priorities, because I wanted

Lisa Ward:

this and that. And as a woman, it's hard to have both, because

Lisa Ward:

you there's more on us than them. That's just the truth. And

Lisa Ward:

we juggle more, and we want both this and that. So I know that

Lisa Ward:

you work extra and you feel deeper and you hurt more. You

Lisa Ward:

hurt

Katie Flamman:

more. It takes courage to display that much

Katie Flamman:

vulnerability and to be a truth teller to yourself as well as

Katie Flamman:

everyone else. But if you want to be trusted in business, those

Katie Flamman:

are the stories you need to tell. All right, on to the

Katie Flamman:

letter O, which stands for ownership, owning the space you

Katie Flamman:

occupy. Jordan, it's holy from Episode 26 take it away.

Giada Nizzoli:

So how I changed my business was by realising

Giada Nizzoli:

what more can I do for my clients while still staying true

Giada Nizzoli:

to what I actually enjoy doing, like that sweet spot. And so

Giada Nizzoli:

that's when I realised that, okay, I need to give them some

Giada Nizzoli:

more some more help with the brand messaging, and then

Giada Nizzoli:

actually need to help them get confident with getting the

Giada Nizzoli:

message out there consistently. And I actually love what you

Giada Nizzoli:

said about being a cheerleader, because I never thought of it in

Giada Nizzoli:

that specific way. But in a way, it kind of is like that,

Giada Nizzoli:

because, as I said, Now, I mostly work with women, and

Giada Nizzoli:

something that a lot of them struggle with is actually

Giada Nizzoli:

promoting their services confidently, without feeling

Giada Nizzoli:

icky, without feeling like they're doing anything.

Giada Nizzoli:

Something bad. And so that's how I got to this blend where, like

Giada Nizzoli:

I give them clarity on their messaging, but also helping them

Giada Nizzoli:

feel like the one for their ideal clients. Like helping them

Giada Nizzoli:

do this consistently until it becomes a habit, until it

Giada Nizzoli:

becomes normal, and then they don't need me anymore, and they

Giada Nizzoli:

can keep doing that with the same motivation, with the same

Giada Nizzoli:

confidence and strategy for years to come, basically

Katie Flamman:

promoting your services confidently without

Katie Flamman:

feeling icky. That is the essence of this letter O for

Katie Flamman:

ownership. Helen O'Grady, in Episode 27 talked about exactly

Katie Flamman:

this, getting over that ick of self promotion. I've

Katie Flamman:

Helen O'Grady: really struggled with it. And, you know, I had a

Katie Flamman:

business in Australia, and I was lucky there. I had built up a

Katie Flamman:

network, and it, I never really had to sell myself, if I'm

Katie Flamman:

honest. And then came over here, and kind of started again and

Katie Flamman:

again. Was a massive, recently, really big reset. And I, you

Katie Flamman:

know, it was always sort of on my to do list, must get better

Katie Flamman:

at marketing, must market myself. And then kind of about

Katie Flamman:

18 months ago, you know, a big drop in public sector spending

Katie Flamman:

on things like coaching. And so I was like, I really need to

Katie Flamman:

start marketing myself. So I have been focused on it over the

Katie Flamman:

last year, and I've really struggled with, because that

Katie Flamman:

notion of selling myself is just so alien, particularly from that

Katie Flamman:

background of nursing where it's like, you know, you don't sell

Katie Flamman:

yourself, or you just your worth is what it is, not particularly

Katie Flamman:

high all of that kind of stuff. But I,

Katie Flamman:

I You're a cog in the machine. Yeah? Exactly, you

Katie Flamman:

are the flipping machine, exactly running your own

Katie Flamman:

business, yeah,

Katie Flamman:

Helen O'Grady: but like you, as you say, I am aware that people

Katie Flamman:

will buy when they know like and trust you and and the stories

Katie Flamman:

and being visible, they're never going to know you unless you're

Katie Flamman:

visible. So that first question is, how do you become visible?

Katie Flamman:

And that's kind of putting yourself out there. There's no

Katie Flamman:

There's no getting away from it. And then that marketing, which

Katie Flamman:

I'm not sure whether that's the same in your area, but that

Katie Flamman:

notion around kind of having an ideal client and directly

Katie Flamman:

speaking, the marketing to that particular person,

Katie Flamman:

okay, hold your horses, Helen. We'll get to who

Katie Flamman:

you're talking to in a minute, because I want to come back to

Katie Flamman:

this idea of putting yourself out there, having self

Katie Flamman:

confidence, owning your space, and if you're confident in your

Katie Flamman:

skills, you're not afraid to let go a little and loosen up in

Katie Flamman:

your work. And that's very compelling. Natalie Jamieson

Katie Flamman:

talked about this in Episode 22 she is a podcast creative and

Katie Flamman:

entertainment journalist, and she was talking about doing

Katie Flamman:

interviews, of course, she said, be prepared, but have the self

Katie Flamman:

confidence to relax your expectations and loosen your

Katie Flamman:

ownership of the conversation.

Natalie Jamieson:

Listening would be my key tip out of all

Natalie Jamieson:

of this. So the way that I've always conducted interviews and

Natalie Jamieson:

have always enjoyed doing them is that, yeah, of course, you

Natalie Jamieson:

plan, you prep, you have your questions, you have your areas,

Natalie Jamieson:

your topics you want to cover, but it kind of is irrelevant if

Natalie Jamieson:

you're not listening to what the person in front of you is

Natalie Jamieson:

saying, because they may just sort of drop something in your

Natalie Jamieson:

lap that you could never anticipate or expect, and you

Natalie Jamieson:

have to then be able to adapt and follow that lead, because

Natalie Jamieson:

chances are, it's going to be way more interesting than what

Natalie Jamieson:

you'd planned to do if you were kind of forcing a conversation

Natalie Jamieson:

or an interview done a certain way. So listening to people is

Natalie Jamieson:

always the

Katie Flamman:

best love that listen to them their story.

Katie Flamman:

Okay, this brings us nicely on to letter R for resonance.

Katie Flamman:

Storytelling for business is about finding and sharing

Katie Flamman:

stories that resonate with your ideal clients. I say at the

Katie Flamman:

start of this podcast and every episode, it's about telling

Katie Flamman:

stories your clients want to hear. So let's see what this

Katie Flamman:

season's guest had to say about resonance his story spotter,

Katie Flamman:

David Pullen, from Episode 21

David Pullen:

the power of the story is, is, is, is that

David Pullen:

combination of it's essentially a fact in context which which

David Pullen:

brings the fact to life. And you know, there's so much written on

David Pullen:

everywhere about leadership and vulnerability, but what does

David Pullen:

that actually mean? And I think, I think the act of storytelling

David Pullen:

is an act of vulnerability in itself. You're letting people

David Pullen:

into your heart as well as your head, and you're risking that

David Pullen:

somebody might say, well, I don't agree with you, which is

David Pullen:

great because then you're in a

Katie Flamman:

discussion. It's a discussion. David said at the

Katie Flamman:

beginning of that clip, story is a fact in context which brings

Katie Flamman:

that fact to life. Just let that sink in a bit. It's exactly what

Katie Flamman:

marketing mentor Jordan, its only said, too in episode. 26

Katie Flamman:

you

Giada Nizzoli:

know, if we stick into facts and stats and things

Giada Nizzoli:

like that, we're not going to make that connection with, you

Giada Nizzoli:

know, with ideal clients, when we're like wrapping that, you

Giada Nizzoli:

know, when a packaging around the story, whether it's like,

Giada Nizzoli:

especially like their story, or if it's like elements of our own

Giada Nizzoli:

story that can feel relevant to them, or if it's part of the

Giada Nizzoli:

story of client that we've already worked with that used to

Giada Nizzoli:

be in the same shoes, and that actually overcame that problem

Giada Nizzoli:

and so on. That's going to make it so much easier for our ideal

Giada Nizzoli:

clients really connect with that stop their scrolling and help

Giada Nizzoli:

them absorb our message, because it's wrapped around that story.

Giada Nizzoli:

Basically. Did you hear

Katie Flamman:

that word Connect? That's what resonance

Katie Flamman:

is. All About, finding stories that resonate with your clients,

Katie Flamman:

connecting you to them with an invisible thread of empathy.

Katie Flamman:

Andy greenhouse described it as getting under their skin.

Andy Greenhouse:

Yeah. I mean, I am all about that the emotional,

Andy Greenhouse:

the feel, the feels, and how you kind of reach somebody kind of

Andy Greenhouse:

under the skin. And it's not always easy, but I feel like

Andy Greenhouse:

I've always been quite an emotional person, so I recognise

Andy Greenhouse:

that people like me well, so everybody's everybody has an

Andy Greenhouse:

emotional bed deep within. It just depends on how thick the

Andy Greenhouse:

skin is to get in there. Everyone can relate to something

Andy Greenhouse:

somebody is feeling, but they don't necessarily want to

Andy Greenhouse:

acknowledge it. Let's look more closely

Katie Flamman:

at this idea of connection. Here's story spotter

Katie Flamman:

Sarah Jane McKechnie from Episode 21 followed by her co

Katie Flamman:

author of their book, the DNA of engagement. David Pullen, if

Katie Flamman:

Sarah Jane McKechnie: you can connect and show that you

Katie Flamman:

understand and, and you, you, you are. You've heard, you've

Katie Flamman:

listened. I mean, all these things that allow space and

Katie Flamman:

connection and, and then, only then, when people are doing what

Katie Flamman:

you're doing now, which is nodding, you know, it's that

Katie Flamman:

yes, okay, this person understands me. It's so it's

Katie Flamman:

such a basic human need that then only then can you really

Katie Flamman:

have the right to say, but, but this is, this is, you know, yes,

Katie Flamman:

exactly. This might not happen because, and give a reason. So

Katie Flamman:

it's, I think one of the things that's so important is to always

Katie Flamman:

remember that you have to care for your and I'm going to use

Katie Flamman:

the word audience. And what I'm audience is anybody that,

Katie Flamman:

whether it's a toddler, whether it's, you know, 1000 people in a

Katie Flamman:

hall, whether it's your direct reports or whoever it is, yes

Katie Flamman:

is, is you absolutely have to care about how they're going to

Katie Flamman:

get this message, what, what their agenda is, and so what you

Katie Flamman:

can agree with, with that stuff? I think

David Pullen:

it's interesting. You said those two words,

David Pullen:

connection and understanding, connecting. And it's it's

David Pullen:

interesting. I mean, one of the things that we often think about

David Pullen:

is that is that this trust is built on understanding, and the

David Pullen:

understanding is is twofold. I mean, we tend to trust those who

David Pullen:

we feel have understood us, who have connected with Yes, but we

David Pullen:

also trust things that we find it easy to understand, which is

David Pullen:

where storytelling comes in, because storytelling just puts

David Pullen:

everyone on the same page. They have, they have a vivid picture

David Pullen:

of what things are going to look like. So being understood and

David Pullen:

making people understand are the basis of building trust. Really,

Katie Flamman:

this concept of building trust through mutual

Katie Flamman:

understanding is what's behind Louise callan's business, real

Katie Flamman:

life conversations. She's invented an app to help

Katie Flamman:

facilitate easy, stress free chat between people with

Katie Flamman:

dementia and those caring for

Unknown:

them. That is, for me, what it's all about, those

Unknown:

stories, those moments, being able to unlock memories from

Unknown:

storage. That's one of the things that I talk about.

Unknown:

Sometimes we aren't able to tap into the things that someone

Unknown:

with dementia does know, because we can't go back there with

Unknown:

them. And so there we are having wonderful conversations about,

Unknown:

you know, what's happened today, or what's in your life, but

Unknown:

where you said selfish earlier, it's like, great, but how am I

Unknown:

going to actually turn the table and actually talk about

Unknown:

something the mum wants to talk about, or your loved one with

Unknown:

dementia, if you don't go back there with them? How. Can you,

Unknown:

how do you do it? It's very, very difficult. And if you don't

Unknown:

know that person's background, even more so,

Katie Flamman:

oh yeah, if you're not a close family

Katie Flamman:

member, if you're if you are a care a nurse or or a grandchild

Katie Flamman:

who does, or great grandchild, or somebody who doesn't see them

Katie Flamman:

very often, that can be quite difficult, can't it? To make

Katie Flamman:

that connection

Unknown:

very, very difficult. And you pick on a brilliant

Unknown:

point there. I think it's hard to have a conversation with

Unknown:

someone with dementia. You have to have the ability to pivot

Unknown:

quickly, because you just don't know where it's going to go.

Unknown:

Because if they forget what they were saying, they'll then look

Unknown:

at the table and go, Oh, cup of tea, you know? Because they need

Unknown:

a prompt, and the prompt will be whatever they can see in front

Unknown:

of them, because they don't want to stop, because they realise

Unknown:

they were in flow. Well, not flow, but it's, it's a very,

Unknown:

it's a very difficult thing to have a conversation. So the idea

Unknown:

of a safe activity, an activity that helps someone with dementia

Unknown:

go back in time to a place where perhaps they've got a lot more

Unknown:

to say than if you just keep going back to yesterday, a story

Unknown:

might emerge for you both that you had no idea would still be

Unknown:

remembered, and you can honour that story. You can do something

Unknown:

with it. You can take it with you, and you could tell someone

Unknown:

else that story as well. So the idea of unlocking that is hugely

Unknown:

important

Katie Flamman:

to me. I love what Louise said about honouring

Katie Flamman:

the story, turning it into a legacy and telling it to someone

Katie Flamman:

else. David Pullen also talked about the power of CO creating

Katie Flamman:

stories. He described a big project that the story spotters

Katie Flamman:

took on, which ended up being the case study in their book. We

Katie Flamman:

were

David Pullen:

doing this particular piece of work with

David Pullen:

Aviva, which under the leadership of Amanda block. Dame

David Pullen:

Amanda block, when she was changing the strategy of the

David Pullen:

company, when she essentially said to her, 200 top leaders,

David Pullen:

this is the strategy. We're slimming the company down in

David Pullen:

this way. This is the forward thinking. I can't do it myself.

David Pullen:

You have to make this happen. And there was a big piece of

David Pullen:

work that was was led by Accenture about the strategy and

David Pullen:

what the leaders actually did mentally around that, when they

David Pullen:

suddenly realised, okay, that's one thing, but they then have to

David Pullen:

go out and have the conversations, which get the

David Pullen:

which get the 22,000 people at the time in the organisation to

David Pullen:

lean in. Oh, yeah, I want to be part of that. So they brought us

David Pullen:

on board to create that part of the programme about, how do you

David Pullen:

get people, essentially, to be excited by the possibility, and

David Pullen:

then also, co create the future co create the story, which is

David Pullen:

really important. Actually, you can tell people's stories, but

David Pullen:

if they, if they, if they add to it themselves, and, yes, you

David Pullen:

know, colour the stories themselves, then they are more

David Pullen:

likely to buy into the story and make the story happen. So the

David Pullen:

book really is the it's the journey of how we actually did

David Pullen:

that piece of work, plus tonnes of other stuff that we've, we've

David Pullen:

done right throughout our careers with leaders. And that's

David Pullen:

what it is. And it's, yeah, it's, it's designed, really, as

David Pullen:

a guide to help people on the journey, people who have to have

David Pullen:

the conversations that build trust, which is the primary

David Pullen:

thing driving which will drive engagement, and therefore

David Pullen:

influence change, whether it's, you know, changing the direction

David Pullen:

of a company, or, you know, changing your partner's mind

David Pullen:

about a restaurant that they don't want to

Katie Flamman:

go To. We all know which restaurants we like

Katie Flamman:

best, okay? Japs, we've reached the last letter of this toolkit.

Katie Flamman:

Why? Which stands for your why we're not going to connect with

Katie Flamman:

our clients if we're not super clear on why we do what we do,

Katie Flamman:

what's your motivation? Your purpose, your legacy. In episode

Katie Flamman:

25 Lisa Ward told us about her passionate belief in her

Katie Flamman:

business, H 2o energy, and her dream to turn abandoned coal

Katie Flamman:

mines into green energy power plants. We evolve

Lisa Ward:

and we grow and we change and we adapt. And I think

Lisa Ward:

that the joke that people often say about me is I'm like a

Lisa Ward:

spider. I'm versatile. I can go in any direction at any time,

Lisa Ward:

but I like to lean into the directions that have my

Lisa Ward:

passions, the things that matter the most to me. And oftentimes

Lisa Ward:

when I'm doing something or changing what I'm doing, because

Lisa Ward:

I have changed a lot of things throughout the course of my

Lisa Ward:

life, my passions have moved, not many of them, but the ones

Lisa Ward:

that have moved has become been because my why has been big

Lisa Ward:

enough, and usually it always goes back to my children and my

Lisa Ward:

grandchildren, their future. You know, what is it that I can do

Lisa Ward:

that can make a difference to affect their future? And I've

Lisa Ward:

always had pretty much of. Conviction that those before me

Lisa Ward:

fought really hard so I could have the things that I had when

Lisa Ward:

I was raising my kids. And so it's kind of like my pay it

Lisa Ward:

forward to the future, to do my part here and now. And if I'm

Lisa Ward:

not real passionate about it, it's hard to embrace and stick

Lisa Ward:

with it. But if it's something that I believe in, I'll I'll

Lisa Ward:

swim against the grind every time you know, I will just go

Lisa Ward:

against the current, and I'll stand by myself if I believe in

Lisa Ward:

it. And there's just a couple things out there that I really

Lisa Ward:

believe in, and I find little pockets in the world that I can

Lisa Ward:

insert myself to do those things. Yes, it's not very

Lisa Ward:

glamorous. I get down there and I grind with the rest of them,

Lisa Ward:

but it's where my passion is.

Katie Flamman:

Louise Callan is equally passionate about her

Katie Flamman:

business, real life, conversations. Dementia

Unknown:

is a cruel disease, and to try and make sense of that,

Unknown:

you know, this is my mum. This is somebody that I cherish and

Unknown:

knowing that I can do nothing to fix it is very difficult. It's

Unknown:

very difficult for a person like many of us are I don't mean I'm

Unknown:

unique, but for a person like me, it's very difficult to not

Unknown:

just try and want to fix the problem. I can't fix the

Unknown:

problem. I spend a lot of time with my mum that's incredibly

Unknown:

important to me, but I can't fix it. So in the absence of being

Unknown:

able to fix it, I want to try and do something that makes a

Unknown:

difference for her, for sure. But actually, as I've learned

Unknown:

more and more about dementia and people with dementia, actually

Unknown:

what I love the idea of the most is being able to make

Unknown:

everybody's day a little bit better, to be honest,

Katie Flamman:

making a difference. That's the why

Katie Flamman:

behind Louise and Lisa's stories. And let's get a final

Katie Flamman:

reminder from David Pullen about how to share your why in a way

Katie Flamman:

that will really resonate with the people you want to reach

David Pullen:

breathe before you go into any situation, before

David Pullen:

you switch the teams. Call on before you walk through a room,

David Pullen:

just think to yourself, how am I going to show up in this room?

David Pullen:

Who am I bringing into this space? Just show up as your best

David Pullen:

self. Connect. Don't put on it's not about putting on an act, but

David Pullen:

it's about genuinely showing up with presence and warmth, and

David Pullen:

the warmth is the the presence is looking and sounding like you

David Pullen:

don't want to be anywhere else, except right here, right now, in

David Pullen:

this moment, fully focused, focused, absolutely focused. And

David Pullen:

then the warmth is about showing that you've considered the other

David Pullen:

person, that what you are doing is is, is not orientated towards

David Pullen:

yourself, but it is orientated towards the greater good, or the

David Pullen:

other person, or whatever it is, so quite simply, show up well,

David Pullen:

and then make the first thing that comes out of your mouth,

David Pullen:

something that shows the other person that you have considered

David Pullen:

them. It

Katie Flamman:

might be your story, but if you want them to

Katie Flamman:

really hear it, you need to make it about them. Let's give the

Katie Flamman:

last word to Natalie Jamieson from Episode 22 not only was she

Katie Flamman:

super clear on her why, why? She loves interviewing people as a

Katie Flamman:

journalist and podcaster, but she also had a very easy tip to

Katie Flamman:

help you figure out your client's why if you want to know

Katie Flamman:

their story, just ask.

Natalie Jamieson:

And that's why I love doing. What I get to do

Natalie Jamieson:

is that I am endlessly curious and always aware that people are

Natalie Jamieson:

way more interesting than I am. So that's what I want to

Natalie Jamieson:

uncover. I want to hear people's stories. I want to hear what's

Natalie Jamieson:

going on with their world. And you know that can inspire me,

Natalie Jamieson:

then to do other things as well, but you know, you won't know if

Natalie Jamieson:

you don't ask those questions.

Katie Flamman:

We did it. Well done. The season three

Katie Flamman:

storytelling for business toolkit is complete. So what did

Katie Flamman:

we learn? Don't worry. Here's a quick reminder this season's

Katie Flamman:

acronym is S, T, O, R, Y, story. S is for self awareness, know

Katie Flamman:

who you are and share your story. T is for truth telling,

Katie Flamman:

the vulnerability of raw honesty and the stories we tell

Katie Flamman:

ourselves, which aren't true at all. O is for ownership. Own

Katie Flamman:

your space, have self confidence, market your

Katie Flamman:

services, proudly with stories, not facts and figures. R is for

Katie Flamman:

resonance, listen, understand, connect, show your ideal clients

Katie Flamman:

that you see them and their story matters to you. And y is

Katie Flamman:

for your why. What? Drives you share your purpose and your

Katie Flamman:

passion and your story will be irresistible. I really hope

Katie Flamman:

today's toolkit will help you to remember and put into action the

Katie Flamman:

really useful takeaways from this season. A huge thanks to

Katie Flamman:

all my guests. Everyone's contact details are in the show

Katie Flamman:

notes, and of course, you'll find their full interviews in

Katie Flamman:

the season three archive. So why not go back watch and listen to

Katie Flamman:

the full thing, and you could check out seasons one and two

Katie Flamman:

while you're at it. There's about 20 hours worth of

Katie Flamman:

storytelling for business wisdom in there, plus lots of me

Katie Flamman:

Wittering on. If you've enjoyed the podcast, the guests, or

Katie Flamman:

indeed, the Wittering please do let me know. And if you're

Katie Flamman:

looking for a host for your podcast or a voice artist to

Katie Flamman:

make your brand sound as good as it looks, you know where to find

Katie Flamman:

me. All my contact details are in the show notes too. Thank you

Katie Flamman:

so much for listening and watching. It's been a lot of

Katie Flamman:

fun. I'm not sure when I'll be back with more episodes, but if

Katie Flamman:

you subscribe, you won't miss it for now, this has been season

Katie Flamman:

three of storytelling for business until next time.

Katie Flamman:

Goodbye. You.