Hello and welcome to storytelling for business,
Katie Flamman:the podcast that helps you build bigger, better, brilliant
Katie Flamman:relationships with your customers by telling stories
Katie Flamman:they want to hear. I'm investigating the power of
Katie Flamman:storytelling to help you connect with your clients, build better
Katie Flamman:business relationships and lasso leads. I can't believe we've
Katie Flamman:almost reached the end of season three, and that means it's time
Katie Flamman:for a toolkit. What's a toolkit? Well, in this episode, I'm
Katie Flamman:pulling together the themes that emerged across all the
Katie Flamman:conversations this season, and summarising all the lessons we
Katie Flamman:learned into a handy toolkit so you can put them into action,
Katie Flamman:into your business, marketing, you're welcome. This season, my
Katie Flamman:guests talked about creating understanding and empathy
Katie Flamman:through storytelling, the courage it takes to share your
Katie Flamman:own story honestly and vulnerably, how to notice when
Katie Flamman:you're stuck in a story you didn't choose, empowering your
Katie Flamman:audience by inviting them to co create stories with you,
Katie Flamman:recognising the motivation behind your story and the legacy
Katie Flamman:it will leave. It's a lot to cover. But don't panic, because,
Katie Flamman:as usual, I've got an acronym to help us remember everything, and
Katie Flamman:this season, I'm keeping it super simple, S, T, O, R, Y,
Katie Flamman:story, funny that so let's go. S is for self awareness. Are you
Katie Flamman:comfortable with the real you have you grown into your
Katie Flamman:identity? I've got three great examples where my guests
Katie Flamman:answered this question. Let's start with Louise Callan in
Katie Flamman:Episode 23 talking about how her mum's Alzheimer's has reframed
Katie Flamman:her identity. I didn't
Louise Callin:get my grades a level. I messed it up, and I
Louise Callin:went to do a computing degree. As I have progressed through my
Louise Callin:career, actually caring about people, solving problems,
Louise Callin:teamwork and actually trying to make a difference. It landed
Louise Callin:every day for me in my corporate world, what has become and
Louise Callin:what's emerged through my mum's experience and my own experience
Louise Callin:of being a carer, I've just changed those dynamics a bit
Louise Callin:actually, what really matters to me is how my 30 years of
Louise Callin:experience doing what I do can actually make a difference to
Louise Callin:people I am so passionate about, carers and people that do this
Louise Callin:as a job, they are the most under celebrated group of
Louise Callin:people, as far as I'm concerned. So if you are listening to this
Louise Callin:and you're a carer, thank you so much for what you do. You do an
Louise Callin:incredible job that is at times, very stressful, very hard work,
Louise Callin:and I can promise you that six years ago, I had no idea just
Louise Callin:how important your role was, and now I do. So thank you.
Katie Flamman:In episode 26 jardin izzoli talked about how
Katie Flamman:great it feels to express her personality in her 1980s vibe,
Katie Flamman:but how she was initially worried, what would people
Giada Nizzoli:think I only feel like my real self when I'm
Giada Nizzoli:dressed 80s. So if someone yet, people can't hear me. I have a
Giada Nizzoli:perm, I've got big loop earrings, I've got a pussy ball
Giada Nizzoli:blouse. I'm wearing a houndstooth pencil skirt, and I
Giada Nizzoli:have shoulder shoulder pads in some of my outfits and so on. I
Giada Nizzoli:got, you know, full on it is makeup and everything, and it
Giada Nizzoli:just makes me feel like I'm expressing myself. And it took
Giada Nizzoli:me a while to be honest, like I think people, people who already
Giada Nizzoli:know me and have been following me on LinkedIn might be
Giada Nizzoli:surprised, because I'm usually quite you know, I show up in
Giada Nizzoli:videos and photos and everything, but it took me a
Giada Nizzoli:while to feel comfortable with really bringing that,
Giada Nizzoli:incorporating that into my business brand, I used to, I
Giada Nizzoli:used to show up with more. I used to tone it down. Because I
Giada Nizzoli:thought, you know, people are not gonna think I'm
Giada Nizzoli:professional. People are gonna think my my strategies are
Giada Nizzoli:outdated because I look like I'm from the 80s. I was like, You
Giada Nizzoli:know what? I feel like myself when I'm and I think it's, I
Giada Nizzoli:think it shows more because, because I feel confident, I feel
Giada Nizzoli:happier. And a lot of people, when I show up on video calls
Giada Nizzoli:the time, like, Mama, you're glowing today. And I think that
Giada Nizzoli:only happens when I'm dressed 80s. So I'm not gonna, I'm not
Giada Nizzoli:gonna tone that down anymore.
Katie Flamman:Another guest who prefers not to tone it down is
Katie Flamman:Lisa Ward from H 2o energy. She kicked off episode 25 laying it
Katie Flamman:all out on the table.
Lisa Ward:My mother taught me how to turn a nickel into a
Lisa Ward:quarter and make spaghetti last till Thursday. You know, life's
Lisa Ward:experiences is what qualifies us, and sometimes we think that
Lisa Ward:if we don't have the best degree or the biggest job, that we
Lisa Ward:can't do the most important things. And it's usually common
Lisa Ward:sense or having conversations, and that's kind of one of the
Lisa Ward:things about my story, is that I'm not afraid to be an
Lisa Ward:icebreaker. If you want to talk about it and you want to sit
Lisa Ward:down and have that hard conversation, I'll have at it. I
Lisa Ward:might not say the words as pretty as you, I might not be
Lisa Ward:able to talk as fancy as the next guy, but I'll talk that
Lisa Ward:truth. It's as flawed as it comes and as flawed as I am, if
Lisa Ward:you'll have that conversation with me, how we can make this a
Lisa Ward:better place for the next guy. I'm all in.
Katie Flamman:Jada Louise and Lisa all showed up as fully
Katie Flamman:themselves. They shared their stories of who they are,
Katie Flamman:unapologetically, vulnerably and really honestly. And that's so
Katie Flamman:important if we want clients and potential clients to trust us,
Katie Flamman:they need to see the real person, the true story behind
Katie Flamman:the business. In episode 24 creative director Andy
Katie Flamman:greenhouse said the best way to achieve this is by using video,
Katie Flamman:even if it's just you filming it yourself.
Andy Greenhouse:So if you're a small solopreneur, business
Andy Greenhouse:owner, or you're a CEO, you want to people, or you're a coach,
Andy Greenhouse:you want people to get to know you potentially. And video is
Andy Greenhouse:like the easiest way to get to know somebody before you've met
Andy Greenhouse:them, and you will. And if you both do it, you will, there'll
Andy Greenhouse:be something when you finally meet. There won't be this weird
Andy Greenhouse:awkwardness. It could because you already know each other,
Andy Greenhouse:even if you haven't, kind of had a call together, because you
Andy Greenhouse:kind of, if you do it enough, you know, people do get to know
Andy Greenhouse:you. So that was, that was really part of the point of it
Andy Greenhouse:as well, or it became the point of it. You know, it's much more
Andy Greenhouse:about well, if you haven't tried it, it is really great way for
Andy Greenhouse:people to understand you as a person.
Katie Flamman:Another way you can connect with an audience is,
Katie Flamman:of course, in person. In episode 21 story spotters, David Pullen
Katie Flamman:and Sarah Jane McKechnie talked about having self awareness when
Katie Flamman:you're giving pitches and presentations. In
David Pullen:fact, we often when we're working with people
David Pullen:and especially on a particular project. We, we have these three
David Pullen:areas of presence, warmth and power that we we, we always sort
David Pullen:of judge, or sort of, yes, we have a tick box. And it starts
David Pullen:with, as I said earlier, the presence of, does this person
David Pullen:look in sounds as if they don't want to be anywhere else except
David Pullen:right here, right now? And then, it's the warmth. Do they look in
David Pullen:sounds as if they if they have taken the other person into
David Pullen:consideration? And then, and only then comes the power, which
David Pullen:is, do I believe their values? Do I believe their their system
David Pullen:of belief? Do I believe what they're saying to me? And I
David Pullen:think too often, going back to what we said earlier about
David Pullen:people being time poor and sort of having KPIs and things like
David Pullen:that to hit in business, we we sort of go, I've just got to get
David Pullen:all my power out without considering those two incredibly
David Pullen:important bits of presence, and as you say, the warmth.
David Pullen:Sarah Jane McKechnie: I mean, because that's what leadership
David Pullen:is. It's bringing people with you. I mean that that's thing,
David Pullen:isn't it? It's and we, we, that's why we have to think
David Pullen:about what we say in certain situations and and I suppose
David Pullen:what, what we do is we, we help people understand the story that
David Pullen:they're in in any situation, and allow and and give people the
David Pullen:the wherewithal to be able to decide, okay, How the easy ways
David Pullen:of how we're going to tackle this. Now
David Pullen:it's funny, I'm about to start a project next
David Pullen:week with a big client, and they're working on a massive
David Pullen:pitch for a piece of work, and I can almost guarantee that I'll
David Pullen:walk in there on Tuesday morning and they present their first
David Pullen:draft to me. It'll be something about they're going through
David Pullen:their credentials and everything, and my first job
David Pullen:will be saying, can please, can you start by saying something
David Pullen:that you've learned about them through all the site visits that
David Pullen:you've been on? Just connect, just show that you've been
David Pullen:present and that you've listened and that you've understood. So
Katie Flamman:as well as having self awareness, being
Katie Flamman:comfortable in your own skin and owning your own story, you also
Katie Flamman:need to be aware enough to understand that it's not all
Katie Flamman:about you. You have to be yourself, but also think about
Katie Flamman:who you're speaking to and what matters to them. This duality
Katie Flamman:was emphasised perfectly by podcast creative Natalie Jameson
Katie Flamman:in Episode 22 it
Natalie Jamieson:all. Comes down to authenticity, because I
Natalie Jamieson:think the way that I've always approached interviews is that
Natalie Jamieson:it's never particularly been about me, because I've always
Natalie Jamieson:been servicing like a different editorial agenda, or working for
Natalie Jamieson:somebody like the BBC or something else like that. And so
Natalie Jamieson:it's trying to get out the story that best serves that audience
Natalie Jamieson:and the things I think people will be interested in hearing.
Natalie Jamieson:And if you're always having that in the back of your head,
Natalie Jamieson:whatever you say is always going to be different to the next
Natalie Jamieson:person, because you're different from the next person. So I think
Natalie Jamieson:really tap into kind of what interests you, or interests the
Natalie Jamieson:sort of vision that you've got for whatever work or interview
Natalie Jamieson:that you're trying to do, and hopefully you'll always get
Natalie Jamieson:something refreshing and different from the next
Katie Flamman:person. That's a brilliant tip. And I do always
Katie Flamman:say, Who are you talking to? Who's your audience? But that's
Katie Flamman:that's absolutely vital with whatever piece of content you're
Katie Flamman:producing, actually, if you're, if you're doing some kind of
Katie Flamman:marketing or media production, if, if, if your audience isn't
Katie Flamman:interested, then what's the point? Right?
Natalie Jamieson:Yeah, exactly. And you know, I when I first got
Natalie Jamieson:into journalism and entertainment journalism,
Natalie Jamieson:specifically, it wasn't about me. It was always because I was
Natalie Jamieson:really curious and wanted to share stories or films or TV
Natalie Jamieson:shows or theatre shows or bands or music that I'd discovered
Natalie Jamieson:that I really wanted other people to find out about as
Natalie Jamieson:well, so then I could chat to them about it, because I was
Natalie Jamieson:that geek that wanted to, oh my god, like something amazing
Natalie Jamieson:happens in this film, in this particular scene, and I really
Natalie Jamieson:want to chat to other people about it. And there's a really
Natalie Jamieson:great recognition when you get that with an audience or with
Natalie Jamieson:people, where you feel like you've connected on some level.
Natalie Jamieson:And yeah, it's an utter joy love
Katie Flamman:that authentic connection is, as NAT says,
Katie Flamman:utter joy. And we all need as much joy in our lives as
Katie Flamman:possible. Okay, S is done. Let's move on to the letter T, which
Katie Flamman:stands for truth telling. In episode 27 coach supervisor
Katie Flamman:Helen O'Grady talked about this, or rather the opposite of truth
Katie Flamman:telling. Here's Helen on the stories we tell ourselves, which
Katie Flamman:often aren't true, and how much damage they can do. The
Katie Flamman:Helen O'Grady: most common thing that I work with people around
Katie Flamman:is self belief and confidence and the inner critic, and that's
Katie Flamman:whether I'm working directly with coaches. Because I
Katie Flamman:supervise coaches so often, that's a narrative around, am I
Katie Flamman:a good enough coach? Would somebody else have done it
Katie Flamman:better? What? What did I do wrong? Why has that client
Katie Flamman:disappeared on me, that kind of stuff. And in leadership, again,
Katie Flamman:I can't speak up at this meeting. I'm, you know, I don't
Katie Flamman:know how to performance manage this person I'm struggling with.
Katie Flamman:I work with quite a lot of social workers. I'm struggling
Katie Flamman:with the families I'm working with because I'm intimidated by
Katie Flamman:them, or I'm young, and they're much older, and I don't have
Katie Flamman:children, and they have children. And so that's very,
Katie Flamman:very common, and often that is around the stories we tell
Katie Flamman:ourselves. So you know, I often describe our protective voices
Katie Flamman:that say, Oh, are you sure you shouldn't be doing that? You're
Katie Flamman:not good enough. That voice gets very loud. The voice that we
Katie Flamman:tend not to use, that we use with other people, is you've got
Katie Flamman:this hang on, you know what you're talking about. You've got
Katie Flamman:lots of experience. You're doing your best? Yeah, you're, you
Katie Flamman:know, we're not comparing to somebody else. So like, for
Katie Flamman:example, a junior doctor saying, I don't know what to do in this
Katie Flamman:situation. We all have that. But actually, internally, we go
Katie Flamman:without even realising I should be doing my should. Word should,
Katie Flamman:isn't that dangerous? Yeah, you know, I talk about, and that's
Katie Flamman:what I'm often doing in coaching, is picking up people's
Katie Flamman:language where they're not even hearing how they speak to
Katie Flamman:themselves, which is, I should, I should be doing this, this. I,
Katie Flamman:you know, I can't do it. I don't know that that kind of stuff, so
Katie Flamman:I don't know whether that's a specific enough example, but I
Katie Flamman:think, yeah, that's brilliant, so common across everybody. And
Katie Flamman:what I try and do is coaching is get underneath, how do I speak
Katie Flamman:in this meeting to what's the story that you're telling
Katie Flamman:yourself, and how can we change that story?
Katie Flamman:In episode 24 Andy greenhouse talked about
Katie Flamman:exactly this.
Andy Greenhouse:I've always been, always been curious about
Andy Greenhouse:my own brain, because it never didn't really seem to work like
Andy Greenhouse:other people's brains. So. So I would just kind of write stuff
Andy Greenhouse:out, and I'm not very good at speaking, or this is the story I
Andy Greenhouse:tell myself, right? I'm not good at speaking. So if ever that
Andy Greenhouse:gets back into my head, then it will like it's right there. Now
Andy Greenhouse:that narrative, it's right there. I'm speaking to
Katie Flamman:you. Well it can shush. You're doing very well
Andy Greenhouse:and writing, I could express myself. I could
Andy Greenhouse:express how I really feel so and you know, I recognise that other
Andy Greenhouse:people
Katie Flamman:got something from that. Andy is constantly
Katie Flamman:looking for the truth about who he is, and he's recognised that
Katie Flamman:his story, like a lot of hours is constantly evolving. If
Andy Greenhouse:there's a part of you that feels like it hasn't
Andy Greenhouse:finished something, it doesn't necessarily mean it's the end
Andy Greenhouse:and that's and, you know, you've closed the book on it. And I
Andy Greenhouse:think it's really easy to think that it is, you know, it's
Andy Greenhouse:really easy to think that, Oh, I've, I'm now, I'm defined as
Andy Greenhouse:the video guy, whatever. You know, I've got to continue doing
Andy Greenhouse:that. And, you know, reading or writing the story that was kind
Andy Greenhouse:of accidentally written, maybe along the way, I can't change
Andy Greenhouse:it. And actually, that's not the truth.
Katie Flamman:So we can change our own stories. But of course,
Katie Flamman:the very act of holding space for ourselves, honestly telling
Katie Flamman:the truth, is vulnerable as
Andy Greenhouse:somebody who can't do elevator pitches,
Andy Greenhouse:especially when they're talking about themselves. Because, yeah,
Andy Greenhouse:I think what you touched on is a confusion, creative confusion, I
Andy Greenhouse:guess I'm calling it right at this moment, because create. I
Andy Greenhouse:think creativity generally, you don't have to define it, but in
Andy Greenhouse:business, in the business world you do. And I guess over the
Andy Greenhouse:years, I have defined myself as different things. And right now
Andy Greenhouse:I'm kind of in the mix of at the point of bringing everything
Andy Greenhouse:together. So bringing you know, my design background, my video,
Andy Greenhouse:everything together. So I would say, I try to be a creative all
Andy Greenhouse:rounder, I suppose, but that doesn't help people understand
Andy Greenhouse:what you do. So I say, I'm the video guy, you know, yeah,
Andy Greenhouse:although that's just one part of it these days,
Katie Flamman:in Episode 25 Lisa Ward opened up about the
Katie Flamman:effect of this struggle to juggle different parts of her
Katie Flamman:life.
Lisa Ward:I've had a lot of setbacks, you know, like I said,
Lisa Ward:I even went through a potential after 40 years. We I almost, you
Lisa Ward:know, lost a marriage, and my passions and the things that I
Lisa Ward:did, it's all real, and I I'm not afraid to talk about I don't
Lisa Ward:want to bleed all over everybody. But we're not alone.
Lisa Ward:We're not isolated. And if more people knew, there would be
Lisa Ward:more, I think, sympathy and compassion, because we all go
Lisa Ward:through the same struggles, and a lot of times it's pressure,
Lisa Ward:it's the business pressure, it's the the idea of what defines
Lisa Ward:success. And I think that that adds a lot to the table, and a
Lisa Ward:lot of that burden, we carry that baggage with us. And I did
Lisa Ward:it. I couldn't find my priorities, because I wanted
Lisa Ward:this and that. And as a woman, it's hard to have both, because
Lisa Ward:you there's more on us than them. That's just the truth. And
Lisa Ward:we juggle more, and we want both this and that. So I know that
Lisa Ward:you work extra and you feel deeper and you hurt more. You
Lisa Ward:hurt
Katie Flamman:more. It takes courage to display that much
Katie Flamman:vulnerability and to be a truth teller to yourself as well as
Katie Flamman:everyone else. But if you want to be trusted in business, those
Katie Flamman:are the stories you need to tell. All right, on to the
Katie Flamman:letter O, which stands for ownership, owning the space you
Katie Flamman:occupy. Jordan, it's holy from Episode 26 take it away.
Giada Nizzoli:So how I changed my business was by realising
Giada Nizzoli:what more can I do for my clients while still staying true
Giada Nizzoli:to what I actually enjoy doing, like that sweet spot. And so
Giada Nizzoli:that's when I realised that, okay, I need to give them some
Giada Nizzoli:more some more help with the brand messaging, and then
Giada Nizzoli:actually need to help them get confident with getting the
Giada Nizzoli:message out there consistently. And I actually love what you
Giada Nizzoli:said about being a cheerleader, because I never thought of it in
Giada Nizzoli:that specific way. But in a way, it kind of is like that,
Giada Nizzoli:because, as I said, Now, I mostly work with women, and
Giada Nizzoli:something that a lot of them struggle with is actually
Giada Nizzoli:promoting their services confidently, without feeling
Giada Nizzoli:icky, without feeling like they're doing anything.
Giada Nizzoli:Something bad. And so that's how I got to this blend where, like
Giada Nizzoli:I give them clarity on their messaging, but also helping them
Giada Nizzoli:feel like the one for their ideal clients. Like helping them
Giada Nizzoli:do this consistently until it becomes a habit, until it
Giada Nizzoli:becomes normal, and then they don't need me anymore, and they
Giada Nizzoli:can keep doing that with the same motivation, with the same
Giada Nizzoli:confidence and strategy for years to come, basically
Katie Flamman:promoting your services confidently without
Katie Flamman:feeling icky. That is the essence of this letter O for
Katie Flamman:ownership. Helen O'Grady, in Episode 27 talked about exactly
Katie Flamman:this, getting over that ick of self promotion. I've
Katie Flamman:Helen O'Grady: really struggled with it. And, you know, I had a
Katie Flamman:business in Australia, and I was lucky there. I had built up a
Katie Flamman:network, and it, I never really had to sell myself, if I'm
Katie Flamman:honest. And then came over here, and kind of started again and
Katie Flamman:again. Was a massive, recently, really big reset. And I, you
Katie Flamman:know, it was always sort of on my to do list, must get better
Katie Flamman:at marketing, must market myself. And then kind of about
Katie Flamman:18 months ago, you know, a big drop in public sector spending
Katie Flamman:on things like coaching. And so I was like, I really need to
Katie Flamman:start marketing myself. So I have been focused on it over the
Katie Flamman:last year, and I've really struggled with, because that
Katie Flamman:notion of selling myself is just so alien, particularly from that
Katie Flamman:background of nursing where it's like, you know, you don't sell
Katie Flamman:yourself, or you just your worth is what it is, not particularly
Katie Flamman:high all of that kind of stuff. But I,
Katie Flamman:I You're a cog in the machine. Yeah? Exactly, you
Katie Flamman:are the flipping machine, exactly running your own
Katie Flamman:business, yeah,
Katie Flamman:Helen O'Grady: but like you, as you say, I am aware that people
Katie Flamman:will buy when they know like and trust you and and the stories
Katie Flamman:and being visible, they're never going to know you unless you're
Katie Flamman:visible. So that first question is, how do you become visible?
Katie Flamman:And that's kind of putting yourself out there. There's no
Katie Flamman:There's no getting away from it. And then that marketing, which
Katie Flamman:I'm not sure whether that's the same in your area, but that
Katie Flamman:notion around kind of having an ideal client and directly
Katie Flamman:speaking, the marketing to that particular person,
Katie Flamman:okay, hold your horses, Helen. We'll get to who
Katie Flamman:you're talking to in a minute, because I want to come back to
Katie Flamman:this idea of putting yourself out there, having self
Katie Flamman:confidence, owning your space, and if you're confident in your
Katie Flamman:skills, you're not afraid to let go a little and loosen up in
Katie Flamman:your work. And that's very compelling. Natalie Jamieson
Katie Flamman:talked about this in Episode 22 she is a podcast creative and
Katie Flamman:entertainment journalist, and she was talking about doing
Katie Flamman:interviews, of course, she said, be prepared, but have the self
Katie Flamman:confidence to relax your expectations and loosen your
Katie Flamman:ownership of the conversation.
Natalie Jamieson:Listening would be my key tip out of all
Natalie Jamieson:of this. So the way that I've always conducted interviews and
Natalie Jamieson:have always enjoyed doing them is that, yeah, of course, you
Natalie Jamieson:plan, you prep, you have your questions, you have your areas,
Natalie Jamieson:your topics you want to cover, but it kind of is irrelevant if
Natalie Jamieson:you're not listening to what the person in front of you is
Natalie Jamieson:saying, because they may just sort of drop something in your
Natalie Jamieson:lap that you could never anticipate or expect, and you
Natalie Jamieson:have to then be able to adapt and follow that lead, because
Natalie Jamieson:chances are, it's going to be way more interesting than what
Natalie Jamieson:you'd planned to do if you were kind of forcing a conversation
Natalie Jamieson:or an interview done a certain way. So listening to people is
Natalie Jamieson:always the
Katie Flamman:best love that listen to them their story.
Katie Flamman:Okay, this brings us nicely on to letter R for resonance.
Katie Flamman:Storytelling for business is about finding and sharing
Katie Flamman:stories that resonate with your ideal clients. I say at the
Katie Flamman:start of this podcast and every episode, it's about telling
Katie Flamman:stories your clients want to hear. So let's see what this
Katie Flamman:season's guest had to say about resonance his story spotter,
Katie Flamman:David Pullen, from Episode 21
David Pullen:the power of the story is, is, is, is that
David Pullen:combination of it's essentially a fact in context which which
David Pullen:brings the fact to life. And you know, there's so much written on
David Pullen:everywhere about leadership and vulnerability, but what does
David Pullen:that actually mean? And I think, I think the act of storytelling
David Pullen:is an act of vulnerability in itself. You're letting people
David Pullen:into your heart as well as your head, and you're risking that
David Pullen:somebody might say, well, I don't agree with you, which is
David Pullen:great because then you're in a
Katie Flamman:discussion. It's a discussion. David said at the
Katie Flamman:beginning of that clip, story is a fact in context which brings
Katie Flamman:that fact to life. Just let that sink in a bit. It's exactly what
Katie Flamman:marketing mentor Jordan, its only said, too in episode. 26
Katie Flamman:you
Giada Nizzoli:know, if we stick into facts and stats and things
Giada Nizzoli:like that, we're not going to make that connection with, you
Giada Nizzoli:know, with ideal clients, when we're like wrapping that, you
Giada Nizzoli:know, when a packaging around the story, whether it's like,
Giada Nizzoli:especially like their story, or if it's like elements of our own
Giada Nizzoli:story that can feel relevant to them, or if it's part of the
Giada Nizzoli:story of client that we've already worked with that used to
Giada Nizzoli:be in the same shoes, and that actually overcame that problem
Giada Nizzoli:and so on. That's going to make it so much easier for our ideal
Giada Nizzoli:clients really connect with that stop their scrolling and help
Giada Nizzoli:them absorb our message, because it's wrapped around that story.
Giada Nizzoli:Basically. Did you hear
Katie Flamman:that word Connect? That's what resonance
Katie Flamman:is. All About, finding stories that resonate with your clients,
Katie Flamman:connecting you to them with an invisible thread of empathy.
Katie Flamman:Andy greenhouse described it as getting under their skin.
Andy Greenhouse:Yeah. I mean, I am all about that the emotional,
Andy Greenhouse:the feel, the feels, and how you kind of reach somebody kind of
Andy Greenhouse:under the skin. And it's not always easy, but I feel like
Andy Greenhouse:I've always been quite an emotional person, so I recognise
Andy Greenhouse:that people like me well, so everybody's everybody has an
Andy Greenhouse:emotional bed deep within. It just depends on how thick the
Andy Greenhouse:skin is to get in there. Everyone can relate to something
Andy Greenhouse:somebody is feeling, but they don't necessarily want to
Andy Greenhouse:acknowledge it. Let's look more closely
Katie Flamman:at this idea of connection. Here's story spotter
Katie Flamman:Sarah Jane McKechnie from Episode 21 followed by her co
Katie Flamman:author of their book, the DNA of engagement. David Pullen, if
Katie Flamman:Sarah Jane McKechnie: you can connect and show that you
Katie Flamman:understand and, and you, you, you are. You've heard, you've
Katie Flamman:listened. I mean, all these things that allow space and
Katie Flamman:connection and, and then, only then, when people are doing what
Katie Flamman:you're doing now, which is nodding, you know, it's that
Katie Flamman:yes, okay, this person understands me. It's so it's
Katie Flamman:such a basic human need that then only then can you really
Katie Flamman:have the right to say, but, but this is, this is, you know, yes,
Katie Flamman:exactly. This might not happen because, and give a reason. So
Katie Flamman:it's, I think one of the things that's so important is to always
Katie Flamman:remember that you have to care for your and I'm going to use
Katie Flamman:the word audience. And what I'm audience is anybody that,
Katie Flamman:whether it's a toddler, whether it's, you know, 1000 people in a
Katie Flamman:hall, whether it's your direct reports or whoever it is, yes
Katie Flamman:is, is you absolutely have to care about how they're going to
Katie Flamman:get this message, what, what their agenda is, and so what you
Katie Flamman:can agree with, with that stuff? I think
David Pullen:it's interesting. You said those two words,
David Pullen:connection and understanding, connecting. And it's it's
David Pullen:interesting. I mean, one of the things that we often think about
David Pullen:is that is that this trust is built on understanding, and the
David Pullen:understanding is is twofold. I mean, we tend to trust those who
David Pullen:we feel have understood us, who have connected with Yes, but we
David Pullen:also trust things that we find it easy to understand, which is
David Pullen:where storytelling comes in, because storytelling just puts
David Pullen:everyone on the same page. They have, they have a vivid picture
David Pullen:of what things are going to look like. So being understood and
David Pullen:making people understand are the basis of building trust. Really,
Katie Flamman:this concept of building trust through mutual
Katie Flamman:understanding is what's behind Louise callan's business, real
Katie Flamman:life conversations. She's invented an app to help
Katie Flamman:facilitate easy, stress free chat between people with
Katie Flamman:dementia and those caring for
Unknown:them. That is, for me, what it's all about, those
Unknown:stories, those moments, being able to unlock memories from
Unknown:storage. That's one of the things that I talk about.
Unknown:Sometimes we aren't able to tap into the things that someone
Unknown:with dementia does know, because we can't go back there with
Unknown:them. And so there we are having wonderful conversations about,
Unknown:you know, what's happened today, or what's in your life, but
Unknown:where you said selfish earlier, it's like, great, but how am I
Unknown:going to actually turn the table and actually talk about
Unknown:something the mum wants to talk about, or your loved one with
Unknown:dementia, if you don't go back there with them? How. Can you,
Unknown:how do you do it? It's very, very difficult. And if you don't
Unknown:know that person's background, even more so,
Katie Flamman:oh yeah, if you're not a close family
Katie Flamman:member, if you're if you are a care a nurse or or a grandchild
Katie Flamman:who does, or great grandchild, or somebody who doesn't see them
Katie Flamman:very often, that can be quite difficult, can't it? To make
Katie Flamman:that connection
Unknown:very, very difficult. And you pick on a brilliant
Unknown:point there. I think it's hard to have a conversation with
Unknown:someone with dementia. You have to have the ability to pivot
Unknown:quickly, because you just don't know where it's going to go.
Unknown:Because if they forget what they were saying, they'll then look
Unknown:at the table and go, Oh, cup of tea, you know? Because they need
Unknown:a prompt, and the prompt will be whatever they can see in front
Unknown:of them, because they don't want to stop, because they realise
Unknown:they were in flow. Well, not flow, but it's, it's a very,
Unknown:it's a very difficult thing to have a conversation. So the idea
Unknown:of a safe activity, an activity that helps someone with dementia
Unknown:go back in time to a place where perhaps they've got a lot more
Unknown:to say than if you just keep going back to yesterday, a story
Unknown:might emerge for you both that you had no idea would still be
Unknown:remembered, and you can honour that story. You can do something
Unknown:with it. You can take it with you, and you could tell someone
Unknown:else that story as well. So the idea of unlocking that is hugely
Unknown:important
Katie Flamman:to me. I love what Louise said about honouring
Katie Flamman:the story, turning it into a legacy and telling it to someone
Katie Flamman:else. David Pullen also talked about the power of CO creating
Katie Flamman:stories. He described a big project that the story spotters
Katie Flamman:took on, which ended up being the case study in their book. We
Katie Flamman:were
David Pullen:doing this particular piece of work with
David Pullen:Aviva, which under the leadership of Amanda block. Dame
David Pullen:Amanda block, when she was changing the strategy of the
David Pullen:company, when she essentially said to her, 200 top leaders,
David Pullen:this is the strategy. We're slimming the company down in
David Pullen:this way. This is the forward thinking. I can't do it myself.
David Pullen:You have to make this happen. And there was a big piece of
David Pullen:work that was was led by Accenture about the strategy and
David Pullen:what the leaders actually did mentally around that, when they
David Pullen:suddenly realised, okay, that's one thing, but they then have to
David Pullen:go out and have the conversations, which get the
David Pullen:which get the 22,000 people at the time in the organisation to
David Pullen:lean in. Oh, yeah, I want to be part of that. So they brought us
David Pullen:on board to create that part of the programme about, how do you
David Pullen:get people, essentially, to be excited by the possibility, and
David Pullen:then also, co create the future co create the story, which is
David Pullen:really important. Actually, you can tell people's stories, but
David Pullen:if they, if they, if they add to it themselves, and, yes, you
David Pullen:know, colour the stories themselves, then they are more
David Pullen:likely to buy into the story and make the story happen. So the
David Pullen:book really is the it's the journey of how we actually did
David Pullen:that piece of work, plus tonnes of other stuff that we've, we've
David Pullen:done right throughout our careers with leaders. And that's
David Pullen:what it is. And it's, yeah, it's, it's designed, really, as
David Pullen:a guide to help people on the journey, people who have to have
David Pullen:the conversations that build trust, which is the primary
David Pullen:thing driving which will drive engagement, and therefore
David Pullen:influence change, whether it's, you know, changing the direction
David Pullen:of a company, or, you know, changing your partner's mind
David Pullen:about a restaurant that they don't want to
Katie Flamman:go To. We all know which restaurants we like
Katie Flamman:best, okay? Japs, we've reached the last letter of this toolkit.
Katie Flamman:Why? Which stands for your why we're not going to connect with
Katie Flamman:our clients if we're not super clear on why we do what we do,
Katie Flamman:what's your motivation? Your purpose, your legacy. In episode
Katie Flamman:25 Lisa Ward told us about her passionate belief in her
Katie Flamman:business, H 2o energy, and her dream to turn abandoned coal
Katie Flamman:mines into green energy power plants. We evolve
Lisa Ward:and we grow and we change and we adapt. And I think
Lisa Ward:that the joke that people often say about me is I'm like a
Lisa Ward:spider. I'm versatile. I can go in any direction at any time,
Lisa Ward:but I like to lean into the directions that have my
Lisa Ward:passions, the things that matter the most to me. And oftentimes
Lisa Ward:when I'm doing something or changing what I'm doing, because
Lisa Ward:I have changed a lot of things throughout the course of my
Lisa Ward:life, my passions have moved, not many of them, but the ones
Lisa Ward:that have moved has become been because my why has been big
Lisa Ward:enough, and usually it always goes back to my children and my
Lisa Ward:grandchildren, their future. You know, what is it that I can do
Lisa Ward:that can make a difference to affect their future? And I've
Lisa Ward:always had pretty much of. Conviction that those before me
Lisa Ward:fought really hard so I could have the things that I had when
Lisa Ward:I was raising my kids. And so it's kind of like my pay it
Lisa Ward:forward to the future, to do my part here and now. And if I'm
Lisa Ward:not real passionate about it, it's hard to embrace and stick
Lisa Ward:with it. But if it's something that I believe in, I'll I'll
Lisa Ward:swim against the grind every time you know, I will just go
Lisa Ward:against the current, and I'll stand by myself if I believe in
Lisa Ward:it. And there's just a couple things out there that I really
Lisa Ward:believe in, and I find little pockets in the world that I can
Lisa Ward:insert myself to do those things. Yes, it's not very
Lisa Ward:glamorous. I get down there and I grind with the rest of them,
Lisa Ward:but it's where my passion is.
Katie Flamman:Louise Callan is equally passionate about her
Katie Flamman:business, real life, conversations. Dementia
Unknown:is a cruel disease, and to try and make sense of that,
Unknown:you know, this is my mum. This is somebody that I cherish and
Unknown:knowing that I can do nothing to fix it is very difficult. It's
Unknown:very difficult for a person like many of us are I don't mean I'm
Unknown:unique, but for a person like me, it's very difficult to not
Unknown:just try and want to fix the problem. I can't fix the
Unknown:problem. I spend a lot of time with my mum that's incredibly
Unknown:important to me, but I can't fix it. So in the absence of being
Unknown:able to fix it, I want to try and do something that makes a
Unknown:difference for her, for sure. But actually, as I've learned
Unknown:more and more about dementia and people with dementia, actually
Unknown:what I love the idea of the most is being able to make
Unknown:everybody's day a little bit better, to be honest,
Katie Flamman:making a difference. That's the why
Katie Flamman:behind Louise and Lisa's stories. And let's get a final
Katie Flamman:reminder from David Pullen about how to share your why in a way
Katie Flamman:that will really resonate with the people you want to reach
David Pullen:breathe before you go into any situation, before
David Pullen:you switch the teams. Call on before you walk through a room,
David Pullen:just think to yourself, how am I going to show up in this room?
David Pullen:Who am I bringing into this space? Just show up as your best
David Pullen:self. Connect. Don't put on it's not about putting on an act, but
David Pullen:it's about genuinely showing up with presence and warmth, and
David Pullen:the warmth is the the presence is looking and sounding like you
David Pullen:don't want to be anywhere else, except right here, right now, in
David Pullen:this moment, fully focused, focused, absolutely focused. And
David Pullen:then the warmth is about showing that you've considered the other
David Pullen:person, that what you are doing is is, is not orientated towards
David Pullen:yourself, but it is orientated towards the greater good, or the
David Pullen:other person, or whatever it is, so quite simply, show up well,
David Pullen:and then make the first thing that comes out of your mouth,
David Pullen:something that shows the other person that you have considered
David Pullen:them. It
Katie Flamman:might be your story, but if you want them to
Katie Flamman:really hear it, you need to make it about them. Let's give the
Katie Flamman:last word to Natalie Jamieson from Episode 22 not only was she
Katie Flamman:super clear on her why, why? She loves interviewing people as a
Katie Flamman:journalist and podcaster, but she also had a very easy tip to
Katie Flamman:help you figure out your client's why if you want to know
Katie Flamman:their story, just ask.
Natalie Jamieson:And that's why I love doing. What I get to do
Natalie Jamieson:is that I am endlessly curious and always aware that people are
Natalie Jamieson:way more interesting than I am. So that's what I want to
Natalie Jamieson:uncover. I want to hear people's stories. I want to hear what's
Natalie Jamieson:going on with their world. And you know that can inspire me,
Natalie Jamieson:then to do other things as well, but you know, you won't know if
Natalie Jamieson:you don't ask those questions.
Katie Flamman:We did it. Well done. The season three
Katie Flamman:storytelling for business toolkit is complete. So what did
Katie Flamman:we learn? Don't worry. Here's a quick reminder this season's
Katie Flamman:acronym is S, T, O, R, Y, story. S is for self awareness, know
Katie Flamman:who you are and share your story. T is for truth telling,
Katie Flamman:the vulnerability of raw honesty and the stories we tell
Katie Flamman:ourselves, which aren't true at all. O is for ownership. Own
Katie Flamman:your space, have self confidence, market your
Katie Flamman:services, proudly with stories, not facts and figures. R is for
Katie Flamman:resonance, listen, understand, connect, show your ideal clients
Katie Flamman:that you see them and their story matters to you. And y is
Katie Flamman:for your why. What? Drives you share your purpose and your
Katie Flamman:passion and your story will be irresistible. I really hope
Katie Flamman:today's toolkit will help you to remember and put into action the
Katie Flamman:really useful takeaways from this season. A huge thanks to
Katie Flamman:all my guests. Everyone's contact details are in the show
Katie Flamman:notes, and of course, you'll find their full interviews in
Katie Flamman:the season three archive. So why not go back watch and listen to
Katie Flamman:the full thing, and you could check out seasons one and two
Katie Flamman:while you're at it. There's about 20 hours worth of
Katie Flamman:storytelling for business wisdom in there, plus lots of me
Katie Flamman:Wittering on. If you've enjoyed the podcast, the guests, or
Katie Flamman:indeed, the Wittering please do let me know. And if you're
Katie Flamman:looking for a host for your podcast or a voice artist to
Katie Flamman:make your brand sound as good as it looks, you know where to find
Katie Flamman:me. All my contact details are in the show notes too. Thank you
Katie Flamman:so much for listening and watching. It's been a lot of
Katie Flamman:fun. I'm not sure when I'll be back with more episodes, but if
Katie Flamman:you subscribe, you won't miss it for now, this has been season
Katie Flamman:three of storytelling for business until next time.
Katie Flamman:Goodbye. You.