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Keynote: Don’t be the Hero, Be a Pro - AI and Tech Governance with Chris HarperChris harper KN 7/17

[00:00:00] Today on Keynote

Chris Harper: My role as a CIO really isn't to present the best technology. It's in collaboration with my peers, really understanding the problem at first. Right? And so today I think, a lot of CIOs want to be the hero, I'd rather be a pro than a hero.

(Intro)

I'm Sarah Richardson, a former CIO and president of this week Health's 2 2 9 community development where we are dedicated to transforming healthcare at one connection at a time.

Our keynote show is designed to share conference level value with you every week. Now let's jump into the episode (Main)

Sarah Richardson: Welcome to this week Health keynote, where we engage with top healthcare leaders to explore the intersection of healthcare and technology. Chris Harper is the Chief Information Officer and Senior Associate Vice Chancellor of AI at the University of Kansas Health System and University of Kansas Medical Center.

With over 15 years of business and technology experience, Chris is recognized for his expertise in data analytics, governance, and AI [00:01:00] implementation. Most recently, he's been focused on harnessing AI capabilities to improve patient outcomes and operational efficiency across the health system. Chris, welcome to the show.

Chris Harper: Thank you. Good to be here. Good to see you virtually. Hopefully we'll get that together in person. But yeah, thanks for having me.

Sarah Richardson: I. Oh, absolutely. We've seen you in Phoenix. We've seen you in kc. We'll be back to KC and you know you're always welcome at any of our summits. So I love how long your title is and you serve in the unique dual role as CIO for both the University of Kansas Health System and KU Medical Center.

How does this combined position help you align technology strategies across clinical care, research, and education?

Chris Harper: Well, so, kind of to tweak that I actually now have three responsibilities. So, unknowingly to me they added another responsibility hence the really obnoxiously long title.

But so I'm now responsible to help out build a kind of a AI technology strategy for all of university, not just the medical centers that's, [00:02:00] non-medical or healthcare related. University side, like school of engineering, school of education and all of that

Sarah Richardson: and extra hours in the day to accomplish said tasks that have been assigned.

Chris Harper: Yeah, so I, I, I I developed some avatars using ChatGPT so that, that kind of helps me get ahead of it.

Sarah Richardson: But truly, I mean, you've expanded your title and responsibilities and it's intriguing because of the need for the lean in these spaces. What prompted the focus on AI and what are your primary objectives with all three responsibilities?

Chris Harper: First thing is really I have an amazing team and leaders and staff, right? So that, that allows us to kind of execute on the really the important mission of, health systems from taking care of patients and make sure that we're providing the best outcome as possible.

But one of the things that, our institutional leaders have recognized is, we're kind of in the same boat and same team, right? So you think about, whether it's the, health system taking care of patients or [00:03:00] the academic medical side, which is the medical center, trying to do research and teach and kind generate that next generation of leaders from a

healthcare perspective. I think the broader, education side on the KU also recognize that, it's interesting I think with, what's been happening at DC I think we are all under very similar constraint and we don't have enough funding or money, right?

We don't have enough people at the end of the day. And so I think we decided to double down on the technology and where we're at in terms of, really the advancement and technology that gets us to that power of ai. And so. What we're deciding is that we wanted to build on the assets we've built for across the board, right?

So whether it's health system, medical center, or university aside, to be able to kind of leverage all of that so then we can really get ahead of the problem versus trying to knock one off at a time. And so this is our kind of an effort to leverage technology as a [00:04:00] foundation to where all three entities need to be.

Sarah Richardson: When you think about that structure and what you have set up, is the governance the same for all three settings? And how are you deciding who's gonna go first with certain either proofs of concept pilots or ideas that are coming forward with the technology?

Chris Harper: It is not. And so that's what makes I think my role pretty interesting.

because I have to play essentially in all three sandboxes whether it's government or governance or funding or decision making. And so, couple things I've been able to accomplish is really my prior organizations had this, which is kind of the concept of believe that office of CIO concept and so that it is important to recognize the uniqueness.

I think that each organization, so the goal isn't to just blend everybody into the same governance or decision making structure to be able to make it easy. But really the idea is that how do we, through governance and decision making still respect each institution whether it's, health [00:05:00] system or the medical center or the university, but recognizing that there's a common thread that from a strategy that we can really leverage when it makes sense, right?

So sometimes, it doesn't make sense and you gotta make sure you stay unique from a technology, But more or less, a lot of the big ticket items as I call them, can be leveraged in online. And so, that's how you're able to just navigate. And then, good news is I have support from, senior executives and all of those institutions to be able to navigate through those rather smoothly.

Right. Again it's never alleviates hard decision making that we each need to do. But, having support from my team and my peers and senior executives is really helpful.

Sarah Richardson: When you've posted about clinical decision support systems and how they can vary dramatically between health systems, I'd love for you to elaborate on how you're working to standardize this space across your organization, given the breadth and depth of responsibility that you have.

Chris Harper: Yeah. And, I've been very fortunate that along my journey with KU, that we [00:06:00] made some strategic bets for the past, really 20 plus years on the technology strategy that it's been paying off as we kind of move to the next phase of our evolution.

So, I always tell people that one, the first journey really started in technology, healthcare with meaningful use, right? So if you think about, we've with incentives, as a nation decided to take paper charts into the digital era. And so, KU started that journey back in 2006.

And we've been very fortunate to again, select the right technology partner there so we don't have to go through this, massive replacement of EMR. And so the second phase second bet on a technology strategy or platform is the data and analytics piece. And so I. We were able to, again, bet big there and kind of, it's been proven out almost a decade later that we made the right choice, meaning that we don't have to replace it now.

We're able to build on top of that strategy and that technology platform. And then, we're kind of at that, what I call the third [00:07:00] evolution of that, which is the automation and AI, right? So we, invested a lot into getting the data in place through EMRs.

And we've consolidated different systems through that data platform approach of getting all the data and analytics into the right place. And then now we're able to truly automate and leverage all of those assets to be able to really in my mind what healthcare technology is always meant to be, is to alleviate, really the waste and manual work for patients and provider to have a better outcome. And so, again, we've been very fortunate that we've made those big bets that kind of paid off. And so that really pushed us in a, I think, a strategic position to kind of continue that journey.

What I've seen to your question, other organizations, I think again, have to pivot along the way and so that really is difficult, and it creates a, you have to replace or you have to have additional, sweat equity or capital invested to make that pivots.

And fortunately we haven't had to do that, which gets us in a more of a smoother path to where we need to be.

Sarah Richardson: [00:08:00] There's quite a few AI that's now embedded, whether that's in the EMR point solutions, platforms, et cetera. There's also the ones that you will intentionally pursue, and

you've mentioned that data and AI have immense potential to enhance healthcare. What applications that are leading with AI are most exciting to you, and how are you utilizing them most effectively?

Chris Harper: I don't know if it's necessarily an application, but it's when I look at AI landscape, again I think about it in different components of the ultimate ai platform, right? So you think about what it tries to mimic is things like, ambient dictation, right? So that's where, AI voice comes into a play, and so we knew that.

One of the big problems that we wanted to solve more than five years ago is, with the physician burnout and clinician burnout and nurse burnout, that we knew we had to figure out a kind of a solution around that. And we believe that am, and dictation could be one of those, as it's maturing in its capability.

And [00:09:00] so, we identify the problem, and then we start to look for a solution. And so that's probably one that we've been very fortunate again, to be able to leverage and we're seeing a tremendous adoption by our clinical teams in that space. And then we're looking at again next maturity of technology from an AI space like AI vision or.

Or any kind of AI capability but not looking a technology as to find a problem. But really in reverse, we're looking at doubling down on the problems that we have. And then once maximize your ability to solve using your conventional methodologies like process improvements or other methods, once we hit that critical mass and we're not able to move the needle anymore, then we look for, a solution around technology and particularly ai and in today's era,

Sarah Richardson: Thats where a lot of organizations really do struggle the whole governance, and especially with the data aspect, which you've done so well. You established that structure several years ago, and I remember you telling us at a summit that it was met with some skepticism, but has continued to provide [00:10:00] value year over year.

How has that foundation positioned you for your current initiatives? And also the trust to go after the things that are more exploratory than they are, to your point, solving just the problem. You can look at it from multiple lenses now.

Chris Harper: Yeah. It's funny because I think, we're talking about technology and digital and AI, but it goes back into that people trust in one another.

Right. So I think what. enables me today is the relationship I built with our organization and our leaders in a way that you know when, we go through a hardship, like whether it's pandemic or the financial struggles we're having now I think they understand that, my role as a CIO really isn't to

present the best technology. It's in collaboration with my peers, really understanding the problem at first. Right. And so, one of the things that I kind of started to think about is, today I think, a lot of CIOs want to be the hero, right?

So I think this is where Sarah, one of the things I watched. [00:11:00] You Bill and Drex talk about it in one of your videos last week. But really, I try to take the approach of I'd rather be a pro than a hero. Meaning, this gives me a chance to kind of drop in Kansas City, the Chiefs as a, amazing team.

I know we had a hard super Bowl, but, one of the things I appreciate about professional sports is that to operate at that high level. You have to trust your teammate right? And so if I think about, you know what happened, at our last Super Bowl is we have an amazing team.

I mean, we won a lot of games, but you could see that there was a breakdown in. One of the core structures of an offense that, really kind of put us in the heels that, that ultimately I think, Eagles were able to, strategically exploit, and so way I approach my role and really advocating for technology is in a way that I decided to be a pro and partner with my C-Suite team members, right? So whether it's from a governance perspective from a technology governance I partner with, our COO, right? It's, at the end of the [00:12:00] day, we're all trying to accomplish, the same mission and solve the same problem.

And rather than, I take the approach of me speaking from a pulpit or, trying to single handedly solve this problem. I decided to really double down on my teammates and how we're able to solve through it together. So, same thing with some of the financial struggle we're having and how do we generate additional revenue or cost savings. Partnering heavily with our CFO and really the revenue cycle

executive team members and how do we solve those problems together versus, me trying to single handedly drive the right technology for all of those areas.

Sarah Richardson: So are you satisfied with the draft ready for another shot?

Chris Harper: Absolutely. We have an amazing culture, here in Kansas City and the Chiefs, and I believe in the culture that they have developed and year after year. We forget that when I grew up here in Kansas City in the eighties, nineties, and early 2000 and even, 2000 tens, like we were not that good. I think people forget, like I think we always [00:13:00] get knocked out at the first round of the playoffs.

The Sean, Heimer era. So what I believe in is, again the relationships and the culture that the chiefs, owners, leaders, coaches and the team members built so, I'm looking forward to this year. because again they have the right foundation and I think they add us some pretty amazing pieces to that.

Not just for this year, but for the next, three to five years, right? And so yeah, I'm excited to get the new season going.

Sarah Richardson: You rarely see Andy get riled up on the sidelines, and yet he just has to give that look or those moments or say one thing to a player and they get it. And I have to believe that's a lot of the structure you've built because the politics, the sports, the politics of university, the politics of healthcare.

Universally, there are some core elements that are not significantly different, and you have to come forward with almost that calmness that allows people to know that even when times are tough, you're still gonna come out ahead.

Chris Harper: No, and that's exactly right. And like I said, like really, one of the things that the CEO and I always talk about is really [00:14:00] the, trust we have to build, with one another.

Right? I hate to, drop name, but that crowdstrike incident, showcased really the value and the strength of our team and our ability to respond to issue like that, one of the key metrics that we tracked during the whole period and again, I had an amazing IT executive team members who really help execute that.

But, one of the key metric is we did not want to have a single patient impact during that period. And so, good to report out that we had zero for instance cost of rescheduling, of our, any procedures or appointments because again, that was our single focus.

And I think it's that you can't just have a vision and think about the long term but you have to execute. Right. And to your point. Andy Reed and the Chiefs, even though they lost the Super Bowl, but they won two Super Bowls in a row. And I think that's why people forget this was a third one, right?

Which was a lofty goal and a big dream. But you have to execute day to day, right? Every day. You gotta come to work and be able to deliver. And I think that's how you're [00:15:00] able to really partner with your peers, but really drive that vision is that, you're able to show that you can take care of the day-to-day stuff.

Sarah Richardson: So I'm a 49 er fan, Chris, so I know all too well how you've been performing the last few years. But I do wanna flip it back to the significant investments you've made in your platforms. And some of them do have several AI tools that it's a flip of a switch. How do you approach the integration of those tool sets within the EHR?

And then what are some of the opportunities and challenges that come with knowing which of those to turn on versus which ones you need to go get from the marketplace as an example,

Chris Harper: lots of trial and error to kind of start with, right? So we know that there are some predictives and kind of now the AI capabilities that come with your EMR and, through trial and error, we knew that we turned few of them on and we turned a lot of it off because it just did not deliver and perform.

And so the mindset I think we have in how we deploy and measure success from a kind of [00:16:00] a AI perspective is taking that really a clinical trial kind of an approach, right? So you do a very small sample size and to see if it works, but you have to have dedicated your clinical and physician partners be able to, stay in the game with you, right?

So they're the ones that's really giving you that feedback. And you have to develop the process in a way that, that feedback loop between our users to our technical teams, to the vendor is really tight. Meaning that you can't wait a month or six months to solve that. You have to really kinda commit to that iterative but really rapid approach.

And I've forgotten barring this from somebody that said the, I remember when, Ubers and different types of services started coming out. I just kept hearing that in healthcare You have to disrupt healthcare to fix it from technology. And something bothered me about that.

And I think what came out to be is that if we disrupt our healthcare operation, people die. Right? Literally, you can [00:17:00] harm people. And so, the phrase that I've been kind of using, like I said I'm borrowing it from somebody, but it's really. They used to say move fast and break things was the term.

So I think rather in healthcare, what I'd rather do from an AI perspective is to move fast and be responsible. Meaning, if you break it, you gotta fix it right away, right? There's no room for error. And so that's kind of the mindset that we take is, again, you have to have that, iterative approach.

You gotta deploy it in a small sample size before you scale it. because a lot of these, to your point, whether it's, your major vendors, your platform or hyperscalers. There's all kinds of tools now from an AI perspective being deployed I heard. Last week that there were over like 1500 AI startups this year, right?

So far. Right. So I'm sure there's a lot more, but that's kind of the number I heard being tossed around. And so really my ask is, for us that are, practitioner of technology and the healthcare side is again, [00:18:00] move fast, but be responsible. Just don't break it and then, try to figure out later

right?

Sarah Richardson: We don't have that luxury in our business, as you have noted. But you also shared. Some of the debate about the role of large language models in healthcare and the guardrails that need to be in place. What are some of the ones that have worked in your governance structure and also how are you viewing, what I just love to say is the universal phrase of the human in the loop.

We expect this a hundred percent accuracy componentry to what we do, and we know humans are not a hundred percent accurate. How are you balancing the usage of models in your system, but also what percent of correctness and ability to course correct are some of the guardrails for your organization?

Chris Harper: something that we're not unique to I think others are deploying this kind of a strategy too. But you know, there's lot of opportunity to deploy, whether it's generative AI or AI solutions that are probably not central to some of those patient care.

So we try to kind of [00:19:00] utilize whether it's, the RCM revenue cycle capabilities or more of those less invasive, so to speak. So ambient dictation, right? Those are some of the early, areas that we wanted to tap into. becuase not only the technology is mature, but also, we had to teach ourself how to your point, figure out how to really

get value and human in the loop and safety and being responsible and we just had to kinda teach ourselves along the way. So those were kind of the areas we deployed first just to make sure that we're, it's kind of like training camp, right? Again, I think we're about to enter into NFL training camp, but we really had to bring the teams together and just kinda

figure things out, but do it in a safe manner, right? Not in a regular season or even the playoffs, but, in a kind of a training camp kind of a mentality. And then, like I said, I think that the key thing is you have to have right people in the seats to be able to make that work.

So I have amazing partners from our physicians and nurses that you know, whether it's the executive level or at a deployment level. So we had a, really a physician [00:20:00] informaticist, who literally he'll buy a technology before it's even out there. because he's so, bought into, improving patient care through technology so we really partner with that individual physician to really kind of

champion some of those early use cases. And so, I mean he just loves, these capabilities and is willing to work with peer physicians to build out a strategy, give feedback and be responsive. And so again, technology is less important.

It's having the right physician partners or right, teammates, playing that role to be able to really drive success and outcome

Sarah Richardson: well, and the strength, the breadth and depth of the composition of that executive team and those clinicians has also allowed you to go into a partnership with K State to support rural healthcare.

How do you then see technology, and potentially the AI componentry, factor into addressing healthcare disparities in rural Kansas?

Chris Harper: I think that's one of the most central to what we look for in a strategy is, not just taking care of our [00:21:00] immediate region, but really be living in Kansas.

And I'm sure other Midwest states are very similar that, there's a urban density and population that, have ability to consume a lot of great healthcare services. But we always think about how do we, partner or help in those rural area.

because really, if I think about it, that's the area that really need these types of AI capabilities even more. Right? And so. We always think about kind of this, back to, don't be a hero, but be a pro. Meaning that partner with those, other institutions or other whether it's rural health clinic or other initiatives that we can help lead, but make sure that they're becoming our partner to be able to help deliver those solutions.

So I always think about this, hub and spoke model. So I think, just like the K State example or even Wichita State. Like, we know our strengths, right? But we know our weaknesses as well. So rather than trying to be. Everywhere, every time. We're trying to partner along the way in a thoughtful manner so that, if [00:22:00] there's some things that we're really good at, we can help lead those.

But, make sure that you're providing those, services or outcome in a partnership way to those rural area as well. And so part of our, I think, strategy is always thinking about those rural facility and community and population as well.

Sarah Richardson: In your background with multiple sectors, including UnitedHealth Group, before joining KU has really informed the ability for you to have this outside perspective of provider organizations, and I'm wondering how that Chris has shaped your approach to how you lead technology where you are today.

Chris Harper: I'm probably very non-traditional career path to being a CIO to be honest. Like if you would ever ask me what I wanted to do when I graduated or grew up. I wanted to be actually a a ski bum, right? because I love outdoors and, I just love kind of the freedom.

And if you interview some of my college teammates or roommates that I always swore I would never get a job that I have to wear a suit and tie every day, which I did not accomplish that. But I think I [00:23:00] bring a different perspective in a way that, like I said to me, the way I approach.

My role is really people process technology, right? So technology's the least important component of that. And so really, I always try to look at way to solve problems, again, from a people perspective first, right? Whether it's the users or the stakeholders I need to partner or from a governance perspective, right?

Like whose problem is, more strategic in a way that may match the current maturity of technology. Right? And so, and then people always forget the processes. If you tried solving it through people solution first then move to a process solution first, right?

A lot of times, if you're trying to double down on improving certain outcome, the simple, work of standardizing the process can actually get you there, right? So I think a lot of us. Forget to do that and just jump to a technology solution first. And then all you're doing is, putting a technology or automation in a bad process, well, that's [00:24:00] a terrible way to solution that you may actually, increase the worst outcome.

Right? So the idea is that you have to make sure you take that approach and from me, from my past experiences that, I've learned those techniques from other industries, I think healthcare I saw at one point, I don't know, Sarah, maybe you mentioned it or somebody mentioned it.

I remember somebody mentioning that healthcare was even behind postal office in technology. I don't remember where I heard that exactly, but, so long story short, way I always approach it is again, who do I need to partner with? What are the people component that we can address and fix, then move on to the process and make sure that we're efficient.

At solving that problem and then move on to technology. And like I said, whether there's retail space a financial sector or a benefit sector that I've learned those lessons and because really you have to show value. You have to every day think about the value you and your team is adding and the technology adding.

And if you can't show that, then you know, really you should even, stop a project halfway through. There was an incident in [00:25:00] my prior career that. Halfway through our project and every time we, looked at the data, it was not solving it, it was making it worse. So we actually stopped a multimillion dollar project halfway through and then decided to recalibrate, right?

Because it just wasn't the right thing to deploy that technology. because we knew that it wasn't gonna solve the problem.

Sarah Richardson: Which is why having those milestone evaluations throughout project implementation is so key and not always practice. So I'm actually glad to hear you say that the post office comment I heard most recently from William Walder at our Boston event, although I do believe it's sourced even prior to that.

And yet, funny enough, over the weekend I was reading an article about systems that still run on three 11, and believe it or not, most of the ATMs in the country still run on Windows three 11 because finance is pretty advanced to technology. But the operating systems that function for ATMs are so embedded in the hardware they haven't changed in 30 to 40 years, which I find fascinating

and still part of our universe, so. So there you go. But I wanna ask you one last serious [00:26:00] question, and that is what you see as maybe the biggest challenge for healthcare CIOs in the next two to three years, and how you're preparing for it. because you've mentioned. The 10 year mark of talent moving on in some cases, even when you're at best places to work.

And also the skillset that kids coming out of college need to really be thinking about and some of the things that they need to be able to do, they're not even learning today. What do you see the next two to three years as a landscape for you?

Chris Harper: there's few questions there but I would kind of maybe start with saying that self-reflection I think is probably the most important thing. because I had to kinda recalibrate even my approach or my thinking. So, I am essentially actually kind of relaunching our IT operating model, right? So we, back to we're third evolution of that.

And so, I'm partnering with, our other C-suite to relaunch our IT operating, and that's including the governance, how we're gonna make decisions on technology together. And even how my [00:27:00] team needs to be thinking about from a how we operate. And so, I feel like it is a new paradigm shift from a CIO perspective because. I've had the honor of seeing some of these advanced, AI capabilities and, it is gonna be a different economics overall, not just in global and US economy, but how we need to operate as a technology leader. And so I think self-reflection and making sure, hey, like am I sticking too

kind of a old way of doing things as a CIO or IT, do I need to really rethink about calibrating and finding your, peer teammates whether it's from a C-suite or different departments to kind of really think about it in a way that you're gonna add value. Because I think, I mean a lot of people are overhyping this AI capability. But

I think some of it is real, right? So, I think the most recent example I heard is what internet has done right a essentially to a standard computer right? Is, this evolution is gonna be [00:28:00] just a game changer, right? I do think that

there's a tsunami of advancement in different technology that there's gonna be tremendous value created through this. And so you're gonna have to, as a CIO, just think about how do you position your organization, but more importantly your team, your people, right. So they can succeed.

because I do believe in that human-centered approach and responsible AI usage. And so you're gonna really have to get ahead of it. because we don't have a whole lot of years to get there, right? If you're gonna be responsible then you have to start teeing up your team to take advantage, but not be, ran over by this.

Right? And so you're gonna have to really think about that.

Sarah Richardson: No, that's great advice. Self-reflection is not something you hear very often from executives in terms of how to keep building upon their expertise and the value they're delivering to the organization. So I'm glad you shared that. Are you ready for speed round?

Chris Harper: Sure. Uh, Hopefully I can answer in a dumb way, but we'll see.

Sarah Richardson: Are you an early bird or a night owl? And how has that [00:29:00] changed if it has over the course of your career?

Chris Harper: Early bird, and I think I'm getting up even earlier. So, funny thing, because my significant other is a night owl.

So we balance each other pretty well, where literally as soon as I put my kids to bed around 8:30, 9 sometimes I fall asleep before they do. And so, but you know, way I've been doubling down is I'm getting up even earlier than I used to. because there's so much, happening whether it's home life or work life that I.

I feel like I just can't waste any minute of every day. And so I've been getting up anywhere from like four 30 to five and even this morning as soon as I get up I'm like, all right, I gotta go, exercise so that gives me the energy to kind of go through the rest of the day.

And then jokingly you can't see it, but I always tell my team that you're gonna see me eat gas station sushi when I'm in a meeting because I don't have time to eat lunch, so I'll just grab whatever and sometimes you'll see me eating at lunch at 3:00 PM but yeah, so the only way I can get outta the game is getting up earlier so that we can solve the rest of the day.

Sarah Richardson: Well, that's good advice, good perspective. What do you find is the most common leadership advice [00:30:00] that you give currently?

Chris Harper: I would say probably the most common lately has been Again, listen, right? And, you have to back to that self-reflection. You can't always be projecting out your ideas and thoughts or whatever, but listen and truly self-reflect on how to approach it or solve it or, because I think a lot of our, high performing it.

Individuals or leaders were quick to solution things, right? So, you know what I remember I used to do a lot in my earlier in career is. Somebody's talking and I'm already thinking about a solution, right? And I'm already in my brain, like architecting and how does this fit together? And coming up with answers and questions that, is gonna address this.

I'm really not listening. Right? And so, probably the biggest advice I've been given is just you gotta take time to listen and it's okay to sit in silence, right? Meaning, we're inundated with, instant gratification of podcasts or you can, use your phone to just about do anything, right?

So I think we forget to listen [00:31:00] and sit in silence and really think, and so I think those are some of the things that I've been asking my leaders and others to do.

Sarah Richardson: That's a good call. because you're right, there's the always on perspective sometimes need to break that chain. Which non-healthcare industry do you draw the most inspiration from when you think about innovation?

Chris Harper: Oh, interesting. I think about retail. It is probably what I think about all the time where, because we all experience it almost every day, right? So. Like I said, I just went and grabbed sushi at a gas station, right? I paid like $12 for it, which is like, seems crazy right now.

But no, I think retail it's ups and downs of economy that have to shift and adjust. And so I, really pay attention to how some of these, whether it's online retailers or physical retailers are solving problem. because I think in healthcare. We're kind of in that, that both domains, right?

So there's no option for us to be a hundred percent virtual and digital, right? We have to see patients to take care of them, right? And so, so I draw a lot of inspiration from retail space. And like I said, a lot of [00:32:00] disruptors like Amazon always think about how they're approaching things and how they're solutioning.

And then really. Try to also not make the same mistake that they are. Right? Sometimes I see them taking an approach that I think is sometimes not responsible. And so I'd rather make sure we're thinking through all of those things before we deploy any kind of a digital strategy

Sarah Richardson: chris, thank you for sharing your insights and experiences with us today. Your leadership continues to shape the future of healthcare IT, and we look forward to seeing how the University of Kansas Health System evolves under your guidance.

Chris Harper: Thank you, Sarah.

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