Companies would start investing again and hiring again.

So I do think the next few months are going to be really interesting

to see what the Federal Reserve does, what the election will do.

But right now the job market is pretty soft and becoming more challenging

for people that are looking for work

Um, uh,

How can you turn your passions into a fulfilling career?

us on today's episode of seek, go create the leadership journey where we sit

down with Joanne Biley, the Duchess of labor, an acclaimed employment

expert, author, and motivational speaker offers her expertise in

career advancement through her book, dive in deep and her transformative

deep process design experience.

Execute and persevere.

As a regular commentator on networks like Fox Business and a seasoned

keynote speaker, Joni guides individuals on navigating and

thriving in the dynamic job market.

Joni, welcome.

Thanks for having me, Tim.

Great to talk with you here.

I was just kind of chuckling at that last statement there, dynamic.

Job market.

That's kind of an understatement.

We'll talk about that in just a little while.

But, before we get too much further, I love the intro.

Great thing.

I love this title Duchess of labor.

I'm going to ask you about that later, but if you're just out and about and

you bump into somebody and they ask you what you do, what's your usual answer?

Well, the quick answer is I connect great people with great jobs.

And I think that's kind of a simple way to Describe what I do, but I've

been in the employment staffing and recruiting industry, going on 30 years.

It's hard to believe.

I fell into this career, but I just absolutely love this

industry and this business.

because it's all about connecting people with either their first

job or their next job or really helping them, on their career path

of what do they want to do next.

And I also get the benefit of working with, Our customers and clients who

are looking for talent, and really need solutions when they're thinking

about hiring their workforce, structuring their workforce.

So, that's kind of the gist of what I do.

And I've just been fortunate to have, Such a wonderful career in this industry.

it's led me to a lot of things that I never expected I would do but

it's been very rewarding for me.

Do you think that most people out there understand when someone says they're in

the employment industry, do they get that?

Does it make sense?

Does it click for people?

No, I don't think they understand what that means because I can tell you my

family, you know, when I first started at this and said, you know, I'm in the

staffing industry, they really didn't know like, okay, well, what does that mean?

So, that's why I like to say I connect great people with great jobs or

great companies with great talent.

it's all about those connections and, you know, I have found a lot of fulfillment,

in this industry because of that.

To your point, a lot of people don't know what that really means.

Well, maybe after we go through a few things here, it might be

clearer to people, but you've used the word multiple time connections,

or I'll use the word connector.

If we look at personality profiles, strength finders, things like

that, connector a big strength.

that something that you mentioned you fell into this industry, but

was it something that pulled you?

But were you a connector all along?

Have you always been a connector?

Yeah, you know, I guess my personality, has always been, someone that enjoys

meeting new people, having conversations.

I also just have this drive in me to want to help.

Individuals.

And so though I fell into this industry, I was going to college

for a social work career, studying health and human services.

my mother actually, was a nurse and then a therapist.

And I kind of was following in her footsteps a little bit in the sense

that I wanted to help other people.

What was interesting is I never thought I'd end up in business.

And I never knew how much I would love.

Business and the economy and just the whole economics, right?

Of running a business.

So I really feel very fortunate that I had an opportunity, you know, right

out of college to take a job that was called an employment counselor.

And so I thought it was going to be more of a counseling job, but truly

what it was, was a recruiting role where I would interview and recruit people.

And then.

I would place them in jobs and it just has turned into, a 30 year career for me of,

learning a tremendous amount right about business and, Pricing and gross margins

and operating expenses and how to build, a successful business and drive profit.

And I've loved all aspects of it.

I have enjoyed every aspect of it.

but ultimately it still comes down to.

I think it was always in me that I wanted to help people and that's

what it really stemmed from.

So it's interesting and I think it's quite a gift when we are

attempting to, we'll talk about this when we get into the, formula

I think that you have for your book.

It's so interesting that we will attempt to, at a young age, say that I

am going to be a blank social worker.

Yeah

Engineer was mine, by the way.

Actually, mine was teacher and a coach.

And I, I say this on almost every episode, but then I found out one day

in junior and high school, how much money my parents made as teachers.

I'm like going, Ooh, I don't like that very much.

I think I need to do something else.

So engineer, But I don't think I was really wired to be an engineer

and it just blessed me to later find out I could actually coach and do

things, but still have that foundation

yeah,

were you going back to what we mentioned earlier, where people were kind of.

to use the strong word of ignorant or not knowledgeable about the staffing industry.

Would you have been in that category when you stepped into it?

Would you have been one that if someone says, by the way, you seem to be wired

for staffing or, you know, temporary service or helping someone find their

ideal job or helping companies, you have been going, you talking about?

I didn't have any wisdom to be perfectly frank with you.

I really didn't know much about the industry or the model, it

was something that was pretty foreign to me, my, growing up.

I think I probably had the mindset of, okay, I could be a nurse or be a

lawyer or, a teacher, you know, like those were professions that I could

understand and at least relate to or think, is this something I'd want to

consider being, but I never said, oh, I want to be a recruiter or I want to be.

Someone that works in the staffing industry, because I didn't know about it.

And I think a lot of people don't know about the industry and the wonderful

work, that this industry does and really makes a difference in people's lives.

So, I did not have the wisdom, about it and I am blessed that I kind of did

fall into it and ended up on this path.

Okay, I think it's going to be fun later when we start talking about

how people's careers develop and how you can craft and do your own and

we've both now said, Hmm, you know, we sort of know how ours came to be.

do you find that people that go into this?

Industry and our buddy Mike Bayer introduced us and he and I've talked

a little bit about this industry and I skirted it some years ago when he and

I were doing some projects together.

Do you find that people go into it with that?

We'll call it a heart to help others like you seem to be on that path.

Or are they more, because I do know there's financial benefit

and reward greatly for people that are in this industry also, and I'm

not, I'm not anti either one of those, but what is your experience?

Do you see people kind of more one way than the other that go into the

specific industry that you're in?

Yeah, no, that's a great question.

I would say that this industry, I think people fall in love with it.

Once they get into it, they might enter it thinking, Oh, this could be

a good financial opportunity for me.

and in all fairness, even when I think back to being right out of college.

You know, I looked at, okay, a counselor job versus the employment

counselor, which was the recruiter role, the recruiter role was going

to pay me a little bit more, right?

And so I'm newly out, you know, have an apartment, a car, you know,

off of mom and dad's payrolls.

So I took the job that paid more and, I think maybe people get into

it, you know, thinking that this could be financially rewarding.

but I think what keeps people in it, is not only the ability to

earn a good income, but you truly fall in love with the industry.

It, if it pulls on your heart, you know, you do have to have that, I think, passion

for it and find purpose in your work.

it definitely has kept me like I, I can't imagine doing something else,

or leaving the industry other than maybe real estate because I've always

loved real estate and I've, I've had fun with that, over the years and

I've invested in a lot of properties, kind of, that's been a, a side.

Interest of mine, but, I can't imagine truly ever doing anything

else full time than helping people.

And I've even volunteered in our industry, which led me to becoming a board member

of the American Staffing Association.

Which really is the largest association for the industry.

and I have the honor this year of being the chair of the board for

the American Staffing Association.

So again, kind of comes back to, I would have never imagined that I would have, you

know, been on a board of directors or then been the chairperson of the board, when I

started out, you know, in this industry to think that that's the role I'm in today.

And it's just been So rewarding.

And I feel like it's, it's given back to me more than I've ever could give to it.

So somewhere along the way, you were able to obtain or you inherited or

whatever the title Duchess of Labor, I think I know where it came from.

However, I just love for you to tell me the Duchess of Labor.

How did that come to be?

yeah, it is kind of a funny story.

so one of the things that I started doing, gosh, about maybe 15 years

ago, was I started speaking about the employment market and talking about labor

trends and workforce data, you know, what's happening with the job market.

with unemployment, with wages.

And again, kind of coming back, this conversation is kind of fun

because it takes me down memory lane.

But you know, here I was someone that went to school for social work,

wasn't taking the business classes or the, you know, analysis classes,

but I really dove into understanding the data and analyzing the data.

And then I started speaking about the data and what was

happening with the job market.

And that led to me ultimately, being asked to be on television on the

national news and, had the chance to be on Fox News, Fox Business, CNN.

I did, you know, just different different networks where I would come,

come on and talk about the job market.

So I was known as a labor market expert.

Well, one night at home, my daughter, we were getting ready

for dinner and she was studying.

History at the time, and she was learning at all about the Knights of Labor and

really the movement that they had in the United States, for putting, you

know, labor laws in place to really protect workers to protect child workers

to get more women in the workforce.

And she was, and I had never really heard of it.

I'm like the Knights of Labor.

And so she said to me, yeah, mom, it's like, you know, like you,

you're the Duchess of Labor, you know, you're doing everything from

volunteering with the American Staffing Association, putting people to work.

And she said the Knights of Labor, you know, did this

work like over 100 years ago.

So my daughter actually gave me the title.

Duchess of Labor.

All right, good.

And so it's, unofficial, sort of,

It's definitely unofficial, but hey, when your daughter gives you a title

like that, I said, I'm taking that.

So we had some fun with that and, you know, have used it through social

media and, just kind of took off.

All right, so one more, and it might be a tough question, more about Joni.

And then I want to go macro.

And then I want us to, as we finish up, allow plenty of time to do micro and

talk about design, experience, execute, and persevere for the individual.

But, What is the thing that you really enjoy?

The most out of all of that because when I see someone with a lot of thing out

So one of the questions that comes to my mind is like what gives them the most

energy and joy of all of those things That that they do so i'm putting that

on you and kind of forcing you to say What's the one thing that you really

really really dig the most right now?

Well, it's easy to answer personally, because the thing that comes to mind

first is I'm a mom to two great kids that I just adore, and that's been

the greatest joy, truly, in my life and they're both in college now.

So it's also fun to help them.

With their, college experience, what they're studying, getting internships, and

helping them get on the right career path.

so that definitely is an easy thing to answer.

from a professional standpoint, if I think about, all the things that I've.

Accomplished, what has meant the most or probably been the most rewarding,

has really been just being recognized, for giving back, to communities for

helping people with careers, having someone come to me and say, you

really made a difference in my life.

you coached me or you gave me great advice.

it would all boil down to that one thing that I was able to help someone and,

be recognized for that has meant a lot.

I like that.

A couple of episodes ago, we had someone that talked, they use the

word significance a bit, and then we, it kind of tailed off into impact.

And I would sort of, I wouldn't have guessed it, but I would have sort of

expect that from someone who started off life, considering being a social

worker that has done all of these things.

you're handed microphones, you're behind cameras and things like that,

but it's really, it's still boils down to, you want to make that impact.

Yeah, you want to make the impact.

You know, recently I gave a speech as a keynote and I was in

front of, I would say maybe about 1500 people, in the auditorium.

And I kind of felt like, it wasn't my best speech.

It was good, but I was kind of beating myself up about it after, like, gosh,

I wish I delivered it a little bit stronger, you know, didn't come across

exactly the way I had envisioned it.

And, but anyway, you know, people are always nice.

Oh, you did a great job.

It was great.

I go to the airport.

I get on the train, you know, that takes you in between the terminals

and there's a gentleman that's kind of standing a few people away.

And he said, excuse me.

He said, Joni, I heard you speak at the conference today.

And he said, I just want to let you know that your message

really resonated with me.

And it was something that I needed to hear.

And I have been holding back from making a decision and listening to you today.

Just reassured me that this is what I need to do.

And it completely changed, how I felt about that speech, even was like, I

just thought I could have done better.

And then here I had someone and I was so like taken back and I just

said, Oh, that means the world to me.

And it comes back to your point, Tim.

It was that if you can have an impact, and help someone.

that's, you know, the greatest gift, you know, to me as well is just

that I made a difference, right?

for someone so, that I really do believe in making an impact.

And I think that's a key to being successful in life.

if you feel like you're making an impact, You have purpose in your work.

You will be successful.

Yeah.

to me, I've, I think I'm sort of wired a little bit.

It's the reason why I like to coach so much because more like instant feedback.

when spoken, even with the podcast and things like that, sometimes it's

either delayed the feedback that you get from like the guy that you bumped

into on the train or you never get it.

And so.

I've, I've kind of had with my soul had to just get to this place where I believe

that I'm doing what God wants me to do, and I need to just put forth the effort,

persevere and execute like we're going to talk about here in just a moment.

And not be concerned about the results.

That's a tough one for me because I like to look at the numbers I like

to see things I like to know if if we do a podcast episode What does it

lead to and all that but some of that we just you never know So I see I I

guess I look at you and I go Here's someone who's spreading a wide net.

She's got a lot of things and a lot of it.

You probably never hear it,

Yeah.

It's a really good point.

And I think accepting that is, important for all of us because

sometimes We won't hear all of it.

Like, it's great, that I was able to, write a book and I've had

many people reach out to me and say, this message really resonated

with me and thank you so much.

I got so much from it, but you're right.

Not everyone's going to do that.

You don't know everyone you touch, but you hope that you do make an

impact and just have to accept that.

like you said, doing God's work and hopefully, on the right path to help

other people live their best life, and achieve greater success because of that.

I want us to go from what we were talking about, your

background and all, which I love.

That's the reason I like doing these type interviews because I like connecting and

talking to people a little more, but I also love talking about the big picture.

And if I've got someone with the experience and background in the labor

staffing jobs market, someone who's on news shows and all, I would like to.

educate myself and others with what we need to know, what's going on, what

are some things we need to look for.

so let's do this first.

Let's go big picture.

And I know you look at a lot of things.

I don't usually like to timestamp these episodes, but unfortunately

I think we may need to.

We are recording this in early August 2024.

in the United States, there's an election almost.

Three months out, which impacts a lot of this kind of stuff.

And so if I were to ask you, are we at now with the labor market,

is that too broad a question?

Can you respond to that?

What would you say if I just said, just tell me what you're

thinking and where we're at.

Well, you know, it's interesting.

You mentioned before when we started the podcast, I think we called it a

dynamic labor market and unfortunately it's not a dynamic labor market today.

So it would be static?

it's pretty static.

it has been declining.

slowly, but I would say over the last two years, there has been much

softness in the overall labor market.

You know, after the pandemic, we certainly rebounded and the labor

market came back very strong.

The economy came back very strong.

There were more jobs being added.

there were more jobs than there were available people

that really drove wages up.

we started to see people really come back into the workforce and all sectors

across the board, from services, To manufacturing, construction, job growth

was happening really in every sector.

And of course, healthcare was probably the strongest sector.

fast forward to today.

what we've been seeing is that the job growth is really coming from three

main sectors in the United States.

We're seeing job growth continue in healthcare.

leisure and hospitality.

So people are still out there traveling and spending money, which we see in

the consumer spending numbers as well.

And then we've seen the government sector add jobs.

So those have been the three sectors that have added jobs.

So the headline number for the overall job market still looks good.

We're seeing, Oh, 200, 000 jobs created 300, 000 jobs created.

But unfortunately, if you dig into the data and this is where I get my

Duchess of labor, hat on, but a little bit of a data geek and you start, you

know, kind of peeling back all these numbers, What's happening is there are

many sectors that are not adding jobs.

They're actually declining.

Manufacturing has been very hard hit over the last year.

Um, the industry that I work in, the temporary staffing industry, has

actually been losing jobs for two years.

And so what that means is employers are tightening their purse strings and

they're saying we need to cut back.

And one of the first things that they will cut back on when things get tough is they

will let their temporary workers go first.

and so we've been seeing this kind of trickle along and it really hasn't been

a great job market for the past year.

And we're now seeing unemployment, you know, start to climb.

So we're up to 4.

3 percent unemployment.

That was just released for the first Friday in August.

We just got that data point out and there's some concerns

around these numbers.

Now, this could mean that, you know, it could mean, are we going into a recession?

it could mean that maybe the Federal Reserve will look at the labor

market and say, you know what, we're not seeing as much movement

in wages and unemployment is rising.

We really need to lower interest rates.

and that could quickly turn things around because then.

Companies would start investing again and hiring again.

So I do think the next few months are going to be really interesting

to see what the Federal Reserve does, what the election will do.

But right now the job market is pretty soft and becoming more challenging

for people that are looking for work.

Very good.

there's a few questions I have that might border on the cynical.

So I'm just going to go ahead and telegraph that right now.

My first one would be The methodology for coming up with the numbers.

do you in the role you're in have confidence numbers that are created

or are they're just our numbers and we have to go with them and or maybe even

give me a range on how confident there are times that I am not, this is going

to kind of show my political hand.

So I'm going to be careful here.

there are times I don't trust that come from the government.

I'm not saying that they're doing it maliciously.

Sometimes they might be, but, so what are your thoughts when

you look at these numbers?

Are you like so confident when you get these reports

Yeah.

or,

it's, I'm glad you're asking me that because, I'm going to be brutally

honest and say I'm not confident in these numbers and every month the

government revises the numbers that go back for the last two months and

they're always adjusting them downward.

So I do question it.

It amazes me that when the numbers come out, billions of dollars are

probably traded on Wall Street and based on what these numbers say, knowing

that next month they're going to get revised anyway, either up or down.

But lately, they're always revised down.

So I don't have a tremendous amount of confidence in those numbers.

However, what I do trust is I'm on the front lines of employment.

And I would tell you, I actually think it's worse.

Then what the numbers are reporting.

I think the economy has been more challenging for the last two years,

but it hasn't always showed up in the employment data and that

could be for a number of reasons.

These challenges have existed through, you know, whether you have a Republican

in office or a Democrat in office, it's the same challenges with the data.

So I do think there's questions around that.

Very good.

that was a healthy, response.

And I think it was, I'm glad I asked that question.

followup that is, again, maybe my second cynical question is that.

Depending on who's in charge in Washington, they will take credit be

faulted for some of these numbers that we've already said that we may not

exactly be extremely confident in.

And with 30 years in the industry, this is not Pointing to one, unfortunately,

in the United States for those listening overseas, we only have two parties here.

I'm getting to the place where I do think there's some policies and things

like that that impact, but I'm not sure that there's that much control

with the person that's sitting in the White House or things like that.

And maybe, maybe the question is.

What are some things that do impact at that level?

Maybe some big sweeping policies or tax policies or things like that.

What are, what's the answer, Joni?

what should we be doing right now?

I wish that, yeah,

no, I

take that sort of weird comment that I made and do something

with it to make it sound better.

know where you're going is a great question.

And I think We certainly need to figure that out, right?

To grow our overall economy and our job market.

I can tell you from my last 30 years where I've seen the most

growth has been a few things.

One is tax credits.

If the government is giving employers payroll tax credits, anything to kind

of stimulate job growth, It usually leads to some pretty big growth.

employers are incentivized to hire, and keep people on their payrolls.

So, I will tell you, that does work.

it does boost the economy.

Employers will invest in their businesses.

and having investments, too, for small business to accelerate some of

that can really make a difference.

So I do believe that those policies work.

in addition, I will say, there are other things that do create job growth.

Some of them good, some of them bad.

even the pandemic, which had a negative impact right away.

I think a lot of the policies that were put in place coming out of that.

led to a boom in the job market, and we started to really add a tremendous

amount of jobs and kind of get the U.

S.

Back up and running better, than it was before.

so it can almost be like a crisis or, a war.

there are certain things that, do stimulate that can be significant,

milestones, but overall tax credits and policies to employers, can be a big boost.

Very good.

All right.

So let's talk briefly about technology and the one that pops into my head is AI

and AI seems to be The current technology hot button, we've had other things in

the past and with the experience that both of us have, we can go back and go.

Yeah, we've heard this before.

Yeah, we've heard this before, but maybe just technology in general or

specifically a I, what are you seeing?

What are you thinking?

Is it an exciting thing?

Is it a concern?

what says Joni?

Well, I will say that overall AI is going to help the majority

of people do their jobs better.

And I do think it's going to drive productivity and

efficiencies for business.

it will eliminate some jobs.

There's no doubt about it and it will impact.

Certain industries more than others.

you know, we see what's happening even with, writing and what's

happened in the media industry.

They don't need as many writers, and editors, and that that's been

kind of an evolution, but there's been a big impact to, the media

industry, over the course of time.

And an AI is a big driver in that.

but it definitely, I mean, it's helping doctors and nurses do their jobs better.

It's changing, you know, the ways people work in call centers

and assisting, you know, like a call assist makes a difference.

So it will eliminate some of those lower level jobs.

And, it'll change, right?

Even engineering.

We were talking about you and your engineering background, like it will

have impacts certainly on the I.

T.

industry and engineering industry, where we can leverage A.

I.

to really do a lot of the work, but you're still going to need people to oversee it

and really make sure, that it's correct.

And that's very important.

If you just look at.

what happened with, the I.

T.

Global outage that we just experienced a few weeks ago.

you know, someone kind of dropped the ball there and we can't let that happen.

Well, because some people are sitting here thinking this is an old reference

that, you know, Skynet, you know, from the Terminators taking over and we'll now

I don't, I don't quite see that just out.

Just an example of a small little project.

We've got here.

This product, this podcast I had a little over a year ago to I'm just three

contractors that were working and helping.

And now I've got one person that helps a little bit.

then everything else is, I mean, a lot of the heavy lifting with editing

and, you know, transcripts, all of those things are being done with.

I like to call it machine learning.

AI is a little bit of a misnomer it's not technically AI yet.

I don't think but Anyway, just last big picture question What is super what is

something that you're looking out over the horizon and you are very excited about?

And then what a secondary and you might have already addressed some of these What

are you concerned about and you could flip the order if you want to end with

a more positive So what is joni super excited about and what concerns are

about the whole the current labor market?

Well, when I look at kind of the horizon, I will say the one thing I really want

to get us past, not that you ever want to fast forward time because you need

to enjoy being in that present moment.

But I'm ready to get the election over with, regardless of who's in office.

the news cycle is very difficult to listen to.

I think there's just a lot of negativity right coming back on both sides.

So as I look at the horizon, I'm going to be very excited that we get beyond that.

And I also think that that will be good for the job market either way, because

whoever's in office needs to make this, you know, the economy and inflation.

A top priority, you know, that that needs to be fixed.

You see in any poll out there, that's the number one issue for

Americans is dealing with inflation.

And we see it with the job market where wages have gone

up over the last few years.

but they're starting to cap out.

Companies can't afford, to increase wages anymore.

So, I think we need to kind of get through that, through that cycle.

as I look at, what I'm most excited about is it will be interesting to see what

machine learning, AI, robotics, what that will do for the overall outcome.

And I'm also excited that we see A tremendous amount of construction

and manufacturing plants throughout the United States that is happening.

And so I do believe there is going to be a renaissance, almost of

manufacturing coming back to the U.

S.

And that will have a very big positive impact in the overall labor market.

You know, for America, but that is taking some time because they're just

being built now, but we'll start to see that in 2025 and 26 and beyond.

I have some clients that I work with.

I work with leadership teams of organizations and with

them on strategy and things.

And I have clients are there around the construction industry.

I'll say it that way.

And it was warehouses for a while.

Now it's data centers that are going up everywhere.

I do think there'll be some employment around the data centers that that also

tells us a little bit about some trends.

We just talked about that's important.

all right, another hard pivot here.

We were, you know, we've been flying at 40 50, 000 feet and I'm going to bring

us down ground level and I want to read.

The tagline for your book that is dive in deep we're going to go through

at least a few of the four items related to deep in just a moment, it's

strategies to advance your career, find balance and live your best life.

That's That's what everybody wants, right?

I hope so, right?

We all want to live our best life and we, sometimes have to get out of our

own way in order to do that, but just as we started talking about the podcast,

the reason I really wrote the book was to try and help provide guidance

and advice to people that might be struggling whether it's in their career

or Are they in the right career or do they want to make a pivot, into a

different industry or a different role?

and then how do you do that?

which is a, you know, I think sometimes a bit overwhelming, but

could be holding somebody back.

You know, if they don't make that move, if they're not doing

the work that they really love, are they living their best life?

Probably not.

So that's really what the book is about and I broke up the

book into the four strategies.

the deep process, you know, is all about how do you design kind

of the right career for you?

and really think about what are your interests?

What are your goals?

You know, what are you good at?

How do you find purpose in your work?

How do you play to your strengths, the gifts, you know, that God has given you?

And so that's really all in that design phase.

And then when you start to figure that out, of course,

you need to gain experience.

In that field and in that industry to help, you know, move

yourself forward and advance.

and I talk about moving up, you know, it's whether it's moving up

the corporate ladder, moving up spiritually, you know, it doesn't

always have to be a promotion, right?

But that you're really.

Finding fulfillment and success from your work and you gain that experience.

and then it's about executing, which is putting in the hard work to

make it happen, following through.

So lots of tips around that.

and then we all know there's going to be.

roadblocks.

You know, the name of the book is dive in deep.

I think of diving in a pool.

and sometimes that can be a little scary, right?

If you're going off a big diving board or diving, into a new pool

of work or trying something new.

and there's going to be times where you may make a belly flop in life.

and it might hurt and some might sting more than others.

But you're going to be okay.

There's water in the pool and you can get coaching and advice and refine your

technique and continue to keep diving in and that's all about perseverance, right

not giving up going after your dreams and ambitions so that you can make it

happen and Really just try to encourage everyone to pursue their dreams And go

after what they really want to do in life.

and don't hold back.

Don't have regrets.

So that, that was really the premise of the book and kind

of how the book's designed.

it was really a fun project for me to do.

So I love all that we're going to cover and I actually might ask you to go a

little bit deeper into one of those items there, but The question i've had you say

you mentioned you've got two children.

I don't know if girls boys, whatever in college

Yeah.

and we've got our children a little bit older than that they're kind of

out and getting started and one of the things that My wife and I will often

say Is that we consider ourselves decently bright, knowledgeable

stuff, we're not really sure.

What to tell our children as far as entering the job market work business,

whatever So and you don't have to get personal here, but i'm just curious

What are you telling your children right now that are in college?

I mean, did you say here's a book you need to read it read this book and then come

back to me I'll fill you in or something, you know, i'm the duchess of labor, right?

You gave me that title, but What are you telling them?

And you know, what can you share that you're coaching the young person?

And then I'm also in a little while, I'm going to ask about the person

who's more advanced in their career that might be wanting to do something

different, but let's talk starting out almost like with your children.

Yeah.

Well, and I have volunteered and spoken at, high schools and middle

schools on this topic because I am so passionate about it.

And what I.

Tell students, and what I tell my own children is you really need

to find a career that aligns with your interests, your God-given

talent, with, opportunities, that you feel like are going to.

Be fulfilling and where you feel like you're making an impact and it's going

to be different for every single person.

We're all on our own path.

There's no right way or wrong way or, one way, for everyone to go, you really

need to reflect on what you want to do with your life and what skills do you

have that you can leverage and try and even with going through to get their

bachelor's degree, you know, where both of my kids are right now, it was

trying to set them up with degrees that will also give them some flexibility.

It doesn't mean like, okay, you have to just be an engineer

and you can't do anything else.

I have two very different children.

It's a challenge, right?

To say like, okay, what works for one isn't going to work for the other, but

I am excited that I think they're both.

on a path that they will get degrees in a field that they

will end up doing something with.

they love the industry.

They love the classes they're taking.

And sometimes it comes back to that, like students, but figure out what

are the classes that you're really good at, that what things come

naturally to you dive into that.

You know, and and see what opportunities you have in that area to pursue, but

you have to try different things.

I think internships are so important.

I think every college and university should require them and have ways

where where their students can get opportunities to gain experience.

I can't tell you how many times I have spoken with college

graduates that have come out, worked so hard, got their degree.

Get their first job in the field and they really don't like the

work and then they have to think about what am I going to do next?

So getting experience is so important those internships and

summer jobs All of those things, are really, really important.

And a really bad formula is when they have debt for that education

that they've gotten for the work.

Now, I was real fortunate when I was at Georgia tech, I was

able to co op and it was like,

You go to school a quarter, then you work a quarter.

And I was working for at that time, Georgia power.

And I realized early on that I did not want to be an electrical engineer.

Part of my journey has always been doing things and going, that's not it.

Yeah.

then making an adjustment and change.

So another kind of big question for young people, you mentioned both

of, your children are in college.

my father was very involved with vocational education.

We had a lot of conversations when he was still alive.

He passed recently that he really believes we are driving too many people

into college I don't know if you have any insight on this, but I'm a big

believer and I think we've gotten away from the plumbers, electricians,

apprenticeships, working with someone.

Any thoughts or responses when I bring that up?

are we, Sending too many people to college?

Maybe that's the question.

Well, So they're, I'm going to give you both sides.

One, when I look at unemployment, you know, unemployment is across the board, 4.

3%.

But if you look at, let's say someone that doesn't have a high school diploma,

it's just jumped up to almost 7%.

if you look at someone that has a college degree, It's lower

than the national average of 4.

3.

It's down to about maybe 3.

5 percent unemployment.

So there is something to be said.

Having a college degree really can help you get gainfully employed

and lead, you know, lead to work and participate in the labor force.

However, I don't think we have enough people going into the trade.

And it does come back to the point, right, where college is

not going to be for everyone.

And there may be some people that would be better off going through

an electrical program, becoming an electrician or, you know, becoming a

plumber or working in construction.

There are some great jobs out there.

Six figure incomes if you have the experience in the trades.

So, and, you know, it comes down to, is this the type of

work that you're really good at?

You have a mind for it.

You have a craft, a talent, and you can make a great living.

So I do think we should have more people going into the trades.

I'm also a daughter of an electrician, who had a very long, successful career.

as an electrician and he loved what he did and he went

through the apprentice program.

And my father was someone that did go to college.

And it really wasn't for him where he found what he was passionate.

What he enjoyed doing was when he became an apprentice in the electrical field and

then ultimately became an electrician.

So, you got to find your path and kind of figure out what's going

to be that right path for you.

We recently spoke to someone and they said, know, it's interesting.

They didn't do it apologetically, but it was, it was almost.

It wasn't as excited when they said their son was interested

in possibly becoming a mechanic.

and my dad's family were all mechanics.

I didn't get that gene.

Yeah.

but I guess one of the things I would love for us to see is to equalize.

The honor and respect for someone who decides to do something

like that versus so you're not oh You're not going to college.

I'm especially again because of the whole debt thing and all of that So

anyway, I don't know that we'll we won't solve that here, but thoughts

Well, I agree with you a hundred percent.

And we do somehow need to normalize that because there are great

opportunities and we don't have enough people going into the trades.

All right.

So what I heard for younger people was Attempt to get a lot of experience

trying a lot of different things.

Sometimes it's easy to do, sometimes it's tough, but I love that thought.

All right, now let's jump to person who's been, maybe they got a degree,

they got out, they started working somewhere, and they've been there 10,

15, 20 years, and they have either hit the wall, or they've hated it for 10

years, or they want to do something.

different.

They are just saying, I can't picture doing this for another 10,

15, 20 years or something like that.

So talk to that person, give them some tips.

You could pull from some of the things from the book if you want to.

But, what can you coach that person?

to do.

No, it's a great question.

And that could be a really challenging time for someone.

I do talk about this in my book and give specific examples

of people that I worked with.

You know, I had a gentleman come to me one time and he really seemed depressed.

You know, he had spent, his education and his first part of his

career in the accounting industry.

And he just.

Was not fulfilled and didn't feel like he was making an impact.

but at the same time, he now owned a house, had a mortgage, had little kids.

And it's like, how do you pivot from here?

And I think you need to take a very, very thoughtful approach.

when you're thinking about possibly making a change.

And I do talk about that kind of.

You know, and even steps and questions you can ask yourself in the book.

but really had to think about, okay, let's go back.

What were, what were even the classes that you loved back in college?

and what parts of your job do you really enjoy?

And what are you really, interested in and kind of like work through, a plan

of thinking about, all of those things.

And, from there, I think you have to start thinking about, okay, if I, if

I was going to make a change, where could I take the skills that I have now?

And how do I transfer those skills into a different industry

and into a different career?

Where I can, you know, kind of port that with me, but, get myself on a path, you

know, in a new industry or in a new field.

using your network is so important.

Especially for people that are a little bit further down in their career.

They have the advantage of having a larger network, and really networking

with people and figuring out who might be in an industry or in a

career that you're interested in and leveraging them as a mentor or a coach.

hiring somebody like you, Tim, I mean, having a coach, it really can be extremely

helpful if you're at that point, right?

You have a career and you want to make a pivot.

How are you going to do that?

I would highly recommend getting a coach, an executive coach to kind

of help you through that process.

Yeah, I actually spoke to someone yesterday that was in a role.

He didn't hate it, but it didn't fuel him.

And when he said, this is what I do, blah, blah, blah.

But then I've got a ministry where I did this.

And I told him, your voice tone just changed totally

when you describe those two.

But he also knows he needs to be doing a, he's called.

God wants him in that business role, but he's still doing the ministry.

So I do think, and maybe that's where the perseverance, I think that you,

sometimes just need to stick it out.

You're supposed to be somewhere, even if it may not see, and sometimes people

just need to change their attitude.

Truthfully, they just need to kind of shift that.

think the thing that's bothersome to me and Joni, I don't know if

we have the answers for this.

really bugs me when people feel financially.

handcuffed.

they've invested so much into a role or a career or whatever.

And they've got, like you mentioned, the house, the mortgage, the car

payments, all that kind of stuff.

And they just say, Oh, I'd love to, I'd love to, you know, be a chef.

I would just have always wanted to be a chef.

I'd love to go to court on blue and get trained and then be a pastry chef.

but I'm sure that's a real scenario for someone,

my wife would have loved that.

She didn't know that existed when she was, in college and all that.

they don't feel like they could do it for financial.

to me, I'll chime in with something practical is spend less than you

make, put some money away and maybe get in a position where you could

Take a sabbatical for six months and experiment with some stuff.

I think that's cool, I love sabbatical or all for, taking a few months and

exploring testing going, Nope, I need to go back and I've seen people come

back into their job with a renewed vigor that they never had before.

that's such great advice and, would back that up 110%.

I think you got to find a way, you know, the old saying, when

there's a will, there's a way.

and, you know, maybe being a little bit, more fiscally responsible, save

a little bit more, but give yourself those opportunities, Don't look back

20 years from now and have regrets that you didn't try something that

you didn't take the sabbatical and go try working as a pastry chef.

And who knows what that could have led to, right?

So don't have regrets.

You know, it does kind of come back to, to my book as well,

but we really try to encourage people, dive in, give it a chance.

Even if you make that belly flop, it's okay.

better to have tried than, you know, to not try it.

Better to try and fail, but to never try at all.

And, I really do believe that the people that take chances and risks,

and go after what they are passionate about, get the biggest rewards.

Yeah, absolutely.

I do want to caution people, though.

Be careful.

You could end up living in an RV traveling the world, no possession, stuff like that.

You could be a nomad or someone called me a hobo recently.

I said, hobo.

I said, I don't like that term hobo.

what do you really want people to take away from, from your book?

We, I, I'm going to encourage people to get it and go through the structure

and the system and all that, but what do you, you know, who would you

say it's for and what do you want people to really take away from it?

Yeah, you know, thank you for asking that.

I do believe this book can be helpful to students, but it can also be helpful to

people that are later in their careers.

So it is very general.

it has a lot of advice on how do you take your career to the next level and how do

you, 80 dreams that you are aspiring to.

Maybe you haven't reached a certain point or there's

something new you want to achieve.

So, I do think it could be for anyone.

As a good friend told me, her 80 year old mother read it and loved the book.

that made me, kind of chuckle.

I didn't write it for the 80 year old person, but she really enjoyed it.

but the one thing that I really hope I inspire people to do

is to take those chances.

and to pursue their goals and their ambitions of what they

really want to do the things that are deep down important to them.

I want to encourage people to find that path and find a way to dive into that.

Otherwise, it kind of comes back to what I mentioned before, I don't want people

to have regrets that they didn't try something, that they didn't try a new

industry, that they didn't try that next job, that maybe they didn't become a

mentor or coach to someone else younger.

you know, whatever it may be, go for it.

Don't hold yourself back.

Very good.

Joni, where can people find you and, you know, get the book.

I'm guessing Amazon, but where do you want people to go?

If they go, I need to connect with Joni.

tell us where to go.

We'll include it down the links and I've got one more question and we're done.

All right.

Well, it is easy to connect with me on LinkedIn, or you can go to my

website, which is www dot Joni Biley.

com.

And you can send me a message through the website as well.

I appreciate promoting the book.

I have donated all my proceeds of the book to Women in Leadership,

a scholarship program with the American Staffing Association.

So, thank you, for the promotion of the book as well.

I appreciate that.

Very good.

All right.

Thanks.

Make sure that you connect with Joni, in the areas and places that she mentioned.

Joni, we're Seek, Go, Create, those three words.

And I'm going to allow you, as my final question, to choose

one of those words and why.

It just resonates with you, means more to you currently.

Seek, Go, or Create.

Well, it's so hard, Tim, to just pick one because I love the whole concept.

But I'm going to pick Go because I want to encourage people to dive in, right?

Go.

and maybe it's even before you're creating something, but you

gotta try and pursue your dreams.

So, that's the one that resonates with me the most, but I love them all.

Thank you, Joni.

I appreciate it.

Make sure you get the book, Dive in Deep Strategies to Advance Your Career,

Balance and Live Your Best Life.

I appreciate you being here, Joni.

Thanks for this conversation.

I'm also thankful for all of those that have listened in.

We have new episodes here at Seek, Go, Create.

Every Monday on YouTube and on all your podcast platforms.

We appreciate people commenting and sharing, giving us ratings,

all types of things there.

So thank you for that until next time, continue being all

that you were created to be.