1 00:00:02,009 --> 00:00:07,210 Good evening, you wonderful people, and happy Easter to you. He is risen. 2 00:00:07,609 --> 00:00:08,619 He's risen indeed. 3 00:00:08,730 --> 00:00:09,669 He is risen indeed. 4 00:00:10,660 --> 00:00:15,056 We practiced that and everything. So I grew up in a house on Easter morning 5 00:00:15,056 --> 00:00:19,453 where my dad would come in, throw the curtains wide, and say, he is risen. And 6 00:00:19,453 --> 00:00:23,850 the answer was, he is risen indeed. but, yeah, we come from mixed backgrounds. 7 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:25,429 Yeah, like me and Dan, me and Dan didn't come from houses which started the day 8 00:00:25,429 --> 00:00:26,899 like that, I'm afraid. 9 00:00:26,949 --> 00:00:32,368 No. But a very happy Easter to you, wherever you're, listening, dialing in 10 00:00:32,368 --> 00:00:37,786 from. And, if you're watching this on catch-up, then it's probably not Easter 11 00:00:37,786 --> 00:00:43,204 day, but, welcome anyway. Lovely to see you. so this is Crowd Church. we are an 12 00:00:43,204 --> 00:00:48,621 online church, and we're, I'm joined— my name is Will. I'm joined this evening 13 00:00:48,621 --> 00:00:54,039 by, by Anna. Say hello, Anna. 14 00:00:54,429 --> 00:00:56,500 Hello everyone, it's good to be here tonight. 15 00:00:57,570 --> 00:01:02,505 And we have got the wonderful Dan who is speaking to us this evening, who we'll 16 00:01:02,505 --> 00:01:07,439 come on to in a minute. So Crowd Church, if you've not been part of it before, 17 00:01:07,439 --> 00:01:12,375 is, we have a talk, posing questions, please put questions, conversation in, in 18 00:01:12,375 --> 00:01:17,310 the chat, any, any points that you want to make, even as Dan is speaking. We're 19 00:01:17,310 --> 00:01:22,245 going to have then Conversation Street afterwards where we will chat further 20 00:01:22,245 --> 00:01:27,180 about the, the contents of what's been said. And then after about 50 minutes, 21 00:01:27,180 --> 00:01:32,115 we're going to join in a live lounge. You are very welcome to come on the Google 22 00:01:32,115 --> 00:01:37,050 Meet. The link will go in the chat later to just connect further. So please feel 23 00:01:37,050 --> 00:01:41,985 free to, yeah, as I said, comment in the chat and join us. So Anna, what was 24 00:01:41,985 --> 00:01:46,920 your, what was your day like? It started quite early. 25 00:01:47,180 --> 00:01:51,066 It was good. Yeah, it started early. We did Easter eggs quite early. I've Got 26 00:01:51,066 --> 00:01:54,953 an 11-year-old boy, so he was up bright and early waiting for his chocolate, 27 00:01:54,953 --> 00:01:58,840 because that's obviously the main point of Easter. 28 00:01:59,079 --> 00:01:59,950 You made him hungry. 29 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,571 Yeah, he did do an Easter egg hunt, and yeah, I was out of the door quite early 30 00:02:04,571 --> 00:02:08,863 this morning actually because I was part of a gospel choir this morning in our 31 00:02:08,863 --> 00:02:13,155 local church. So yeah, I was out early for a sound check at like half 8, so it 32 00:02:13,155 --> 00:02:17,446 was an early start. Then we came home for a roast, lots of family games this 33 00:02:17,446 --> 00:02:21,738 afternoon. Got my mum and dad staying, they might even be watching now on the 34 00:02:21,738 --> 00:02:26,030 live feed. If we're lucky. Yeah, so it's been a good day. How was yours? 35 00:02:26,199 --> 00:02:30,514 Fantastic. Yeah, yeah, very good. Similarly, quite early, early up out the 36 00:02:30,514 --> 00:02:34,829 door, taking my parents over to my aunt's house on the Wirral where we managed 37 00:02:34,829 --> 00:02:39,144 to get to her church and had a lovely, lovely meal around at hers and also an 38 00:02:39,144 --> 00:02:43,460 Easter egg hunt after lunch. There was one cream egg that went missing. I did 39 00:02:43,460 --> 00:02:47,775 try to kind of count them all out and try to remember where I hid them all, but 40 00:02:47,775 --> 00:02:52,090 one remains somewhere in the house. 41 00:02:52,189 --> 00:02:54,669 It'll be like a surprise. Prize in a few weeks' time. 42 00:02:54,740 --> 00:02:59,171 Or it'll be eaten by ants. Yeah, discovered in July, just a bit of foil. A 43 00:02:59,171 --> 00:03:03,602 little bit rusty. That's, that's part of Easter egg hunts really, isn't it? So 44 00:03:03,602 --> 00:03:08,033 yeah, hope you've had a lovely Easter wherever you're celebrating. Why don't you 45 00:03:08,033 --> 00:03:12,463 put in the chat what you've done today and how you've celebrated Easter? We do 46 00:03:12,463 --> 00:03:16,895 get people joining from all over the world and traditions are different. In 47 00:03:16,895 --> 00:03:21,326 fact, I learned— I was— we were talking a bit about Easter Bunny and things 48 00:03:21,326 --> 00:03:25,757 like, how on earth I think one of the kids asked, what is it with, with a bunny 49 00:03:25,757 --> 00:03:30,188 and eggs? So I, and I didn't know this, but apparently that, that, that started 50 00:03:30,188 --> 00:03:34,618 in Germany, that whole tradition that there was a, a spring hare that laid 51 00:03:34,618 --> 00:03:39,050 coloured eggs in bonnets. I mean, crazy. 52 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,987 Yeah, but I don't think that— maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't think they 53 00:03:42,987 --> 00:03:46,415 did like originally chocolate eggs because I remember going on a school 54 00:03:46,415 --> 00:03:49,843 exchange. This is going a bit off the point now, but when I was about 14, I went 55 00:03:49,843 --> 00:03:53,271 on a school exchange and I stayed there over the Easter holidays because I 56 00:03:53,271 --> 00:03:56,699 distinctly remember we had to paint loads of, you know, just like regular kind 57 00:03:56,699 --> 00:04:00,127 of hen's eggs. Yeah, loads of them, and we had to paint them all, and that's 58 00:04:00,127 --> 00:04:03,555 what they did, and that was kind of the German tradition. Yeah, and I think it 59 00:04:03,555 --> 00:04:06,983 was more of a kind of decorated eggs rather than chocolate eggs originally. 60 00:04:06,983 --> 00:04:10,411 Yeah, it's probably capitalism that's made them chocolate. I don't know, I don't 61 00:04:10,411 --> 00:04:13,839 know. Someone who knows what they're talking about, tell us. 62 00:04:13,889 --> 00:04:18,044 That's totally right. Yeah, but yes, so something else I learned, that 63 00:04:18,044 --> 00:04:22,199 traditionally in the traditional church— I wouldn't necessarily call Crowd 64 00:04:22,199 --> 00:04:26,355 Church traditional church, but you couldn't eat eggs in Holy Week. So all the 65 00:04:26,355 --> 00:04:30,509 eggs that were laid in Holy Week, you'd collect together and you would paint. 66 00:04:30,649 --> 00:04:31,360 Oh, that makes sense. 67 00:04:31,459 --> 00:04:35,629 And then, like, you know, they're there. So whether they were ready, whether 68 00:04:35,629 --> 00:04:39,799 you could actually eat them by Easter Day or not, I would just have them 69 00:04:39,799 --> 00:04:43,969 painted. But I think that's where the tradition started. Anyway, without further 70 00:04:43,969 --> 00:04:48,139 ado, so we've talked a lot about traditions of Easter, but we've got Dan with 71 00:04:48,139 --> 00:04:52,310 us, and he's going to tell us actually a bit more about Easter, about the real 72 00:04:52,310 --> 00:04:56,479 Easter. So stay tuned. Please, as I said, put questions, comments in the chat, 73 00:04:56,479 --> 00:05:00,649 and we'll see you in a little while for Conversation Street. Dan, over to you. 74 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:06,500 Well, thank you, Will. Yeah, so there are lots of traditions, aren't there? But 75 00:05:06,500 --> 00:05:11,720 today I want to talk about history, not just a story. And let me explain. I 76 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:16,940 believe, and we'll unpack this later, but Easter is a historical account of 77 00:05:16,940 --> 00:05:22,160 Jesus of Nazareth. Being crucified, as we heard last week, and then rising from 78 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:27,380 the dead. A miracle in history. If you know anything about the Bible or you 79 00:05:27,380 --> 00:05:32,600 listen to talks before on Crowd, then miracles are talked about all the time. 80 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:37,820 Miracles like the feeding of the 5,000, healing the sick. You've probably heard 81 00:05:37,820 --> 00:05:43,041 us talk of times where God has healed us here in this room, provided for us, 82 00:05:43,041 --> 00:05:48,261 spoken to us. All amazing things, but I wonder if you hear them and often just 83 00:05:48,261 --> 00:05:53,481 store them in your memory as stories or fables. That was back then. That's just 84 00:05:53,481 --> 00:05:58,701 their take on things. Coincidence. I can believe good things of Christianity 85 00:05:58,701 --> 00:06:03,921 without the factual impossibilities. Well, can you? Today I'm talking about 86 00:06:03,921 --> 00:06:09,141 Easter. A miracle. This man Jesus was killed and 3 days later he rose from the 87 00:06:09,141 --> 00:06:14,361 dead. No metaphor, no illustration, not an old legend. A straight-up miracle. An 88 00:06:14,361 --> 00:06:19,582 impossibility in the natural world. He was sealed in a tomb, then he was out. He 89 00:06:19,582 --> 00:06:24,802 spoke, he ate with others, many witnesses, and then he ascends to heaven. So, 90 00:06:24,802 --> 00:06:30,022 wow, you know, that's a, that's a huge thing, isn't it? Let's take a look at the 91 00:06:30,022 --> 00:06:35,242 why and the what and the how of all of this. So All of the four Gospels talk 92 00:06:35,242 --> 00:06:40,462 about the resurrection of Jesus. It's so high up in their priority of memories 93 00:06:40,462 --> 00:06:45,682 that it needed to be recorded. And in all accounts, the first people to see 94 00:06:45,682 --> 00:06:50,902 Jesus, discover the missing tomb, are women. We've got Mary Magdalene, Mary the 95 00:06:50,902 --> 00:06:56,123 mother of James, and different women in the different accounts. And why is this 96 00:06:56,123 --> 00:07:01,343 important? Well, this is a time when a woman's testimony wasn't valued. It was 97 00:07:01,343 --> 00:07:06,563 deemed unacceptable in a court of law. So if you're going to start a religion or 98 00:07:06,563 --> 00:07:11,783 a movement on this pivotal, pivotal point, you're probably going to get some men 99 00:07:11,783 --> 00:07:17,003 really recording this, these first sightings. But I believe recording that the 100 00:07:17,003 --> 00:07:22,223 women— oh, that's the time delay. but I believe that women were the first to see 101 00:07:22,223 --> 00:07:27,443 the risen Jesus. Actually, the fact that women were the first to see recorded 102 00:07:27,443 --> 00:07:32,664 gives this more credibility. It shows that they, the Gospel writers, recorded 103 00:07:32,664 --> 00:07:37,884 what actually happened, not just the story they wanted to tell, not just a story 104 00:07:37,884 --> 00:07:43,104 that would give them more credibility. And I mentioned that the differing counts 105 00:07:43,104 --> 00:07:48,324 also have different records of the actual women that were there. And again, if 106 00:07:48,324 --> 00:07:53,544 you're going to write this down, all these facts then, and how they're recorded, 107 00:07:53,544 --> 00:07:58,764 then, you're going to write them down, you sort of get all your stories 108 00:07:58,764 --> 00:08:03,984 straight. Like if you were, you know, committing a crime and you have a little 109 00:08:03,984 --> 00:08:09,205 chat between each other, you get the names the same. So this gives it, I feel, 110 00:08:09,205 --> 00:08:14,425 much more credibility in all these reports. So before I do go any further, so 111 00:08:14,425 --> 00:08:19,645 I'm just going to take some little bits here. I really recommend a book if you 112 00:08:19,645 --> 00:08:24,865 want to go into more detail. It's a book by a journalist called Lee Strobel. He 113 00:08:24,865 --> 00:08:30,085 wrote an amazing book called The Case for Christ, great book looking at all the 114 00:08:30,085 --> 00:08:35,305 evidence for Christ. And he was so convinced that he became a Christian after 115 00:08:35,305 --> 00:08:40,525 writing it. And, some of that book and a little extra he's put into a newer book 116 00:08:40,525 --> 00:08:45,746 called The Case for Easter, and it's well worth a read, or 2 hours 48 minutes if 117 00:08:45,746 --> 00:08:50,966 you listen to the audiobook. I get most of my knowledge through audiobooks as 118 00:08:50,966 --> 00:08:56,186 I'm driving around through the day. So, back to my brief summary of things. We 119 00:08:56,186 --> 00:09:01,406 have the women discovering that Jesus isn't in the tomb. Let's read one of the 120 00:09:01,406 --> 00:09:06,626 accounts. This is chapter 28 of Matthew. Now, after the Sabbath, toward the Dawn 121 00:09:06,626 --> 00:09:11,846 of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the 122 00:09:11,846 --> 00:09:17,066 tomb. And behold, there was a great earthquake, for an angel of the Lord 123 00:09:17,066 --> 00:09:22,287 descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. His 124 00:09:22,287 --> 00:09:27,507 appearance was like lightning, and his clothing white as snow. And for fear of 125 00:09:27,507 --> 00:09:32,727 him, the guards trembled and became like dead men. But the angel said to the 126 00:09:32,727 --> 00:09:37,947 women, 'Do not be afraid.' For I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. He 127 00:09:37,947 --> 00:09:43,167 is not here; he has risen.' And he said, 'Come, see the place where he lay. Then 128 00:09:43,167 --> 00:09:48,387 go quickly and tell the disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold, 129 00:09:48,387 --> 00:09:53,607 he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told 130 00:09:53,607 --> 00:09:58,827 you.' So they departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy and ran to 131 00:09:58,827 --> 00:10:04,048 tell his disciples. And behold, Jesus met them and said, "Greetings!" And they 132 00:10:04,048 --> 00:10:09,268 came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him. And Jesus said to them, "Do 133 00:10:09,268 --> 00:10:14,488 not be afraid; go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see 134 00:10:14,488 --> 00:10:19,708 me." What an amazing few sentences. For those of you who have listened to the 135 00:10:19,708 --> 00:10:24,928 talk that I did at Christmas, there's some more "do not be afraid" moments. An 136 00:10:24,928 --> 00:10:30,148 angel with appearance of lightning: "Don't be afraid." You can have a search and 137 00:10:30,148 --> 00:10:35,368 have a listen. I love that. I love that. Don't be afraid. So God, when God 138 00:10:35,368 --> 00:10:40,589 breaks into our lives, sometimes it's just too much for these earthly eyes to 139 00:10:40,589 --> 00:10:45,809 grasp and to behold. We've got an angel, we've got the amazing dedicated women, 140 00:10:45,809 --> 00:10:51,029 we've got guards who are just knocked out. Then off the women run to tell this 141 00:10:51,029 --> 00:10:56,249 amazing news. And then there's this, this, this is one bit where I'm sure 142 00:10:56,249 --> 00:11:01,469 Matthew and the translations of the Bible have just perhaps put a very short 143 00:11:01,469 --> 00:11:06,689 account of history. Greetings. Jesus just says greetings. I personally think 144 00:11:06,689 --> 00:11:11,909 perhaps there was a few more words that went there. What do you think? When they 145 00:11:11,909 --> 00:11:17,130 saw the risen Jesus and worshipped him. Then another encounter with the risen 146 00:11:17,130 --> 00:11:22,350 Jesus is recorded, this time in Luke's Gospel. Two of the disciples had visited 147 00:11:22,350 --> 00:11:27,570 the empty tomb They were then walking to a town called Emmaus, discussing the 148 00:11:27,570 --> 00:11:32,790 events of the last few hours and days. They'd heard the news that the tomb was 149 00:11:32,790 --> 00:11:38,010 empty and were off for a walk. And the place they're walking to can maybe tell 150 00:11:38,010 --> 00:11:43,230 us something about what they were thinking. Back then, if you talked to someone 151 00:11:43,230 --> 00:11:48,450 about Emmaus, the first thing you'd think about was the last big battle the 152 00:11:48,450 --> 00:11:53,671 Jewish people, the Maccabees, they led a revolt against the Greek army and won 153 00:11:53,671 --> 00:11:58,891 their It's a bit like talking to an American and mentioning Pearl Harbor, or 154 00:11:58,891 --> 00:12:04,111 talking to your granddad and mentioning the Somme. Immediately, wars and events 155 00:12:04,111 --> 00:12:09,331 would spring to mind. And often in the Bible, these facts that are mentioned are 156 00:12:09,331 --> 00:12:14,551 put there for a reason. And I think it's added here to show us that these 157 00:12:14,551 --> 00:12:19,771 disciples were perhaps thinking, "This is what we thought Jesus was going to do. 158 00:12:19,771 --> 00:12:24,991 There would be another battle. He was the Son of God, and finally Jerusalem will 159 00:12:24,991 --> 00:12:30,212 be freed." And the Romans defeated, their heads were focused on what they 160 00:12:30,212 --> 00:12:35,432 thought should have happened. Do you ever have times when you think God should 161 00:12:35,432 --> 00:12:40,652 have worked in a different way? This can't be right, because if it was, God 162 00:12:40,652 --> 00:12:45,872 would have sorted things by now. He would have done it this way with that in 163 00:12:45,872 --> 00:12:51,092 mind. These disciples are walking along and Jesus appears next to them. So, 164 00:12:51,092 --> 00:12:56,312 let's read in Luke 24. Luke 24:13. That very day two of them were going to a 165 00:12:56,312 --> 00:13:01,532 village named Emmaus, about 7 miles from Jerusalem. They were talking with each 166 00:13:01,532 --> 00:13:06,753 other about all these things that had happened. While they were talking and 167 00:13:06,753 --> 00:13:11,973 discussing together, Jesus himself drew near and went with them. But their eyes 168 00:13:11,973 --> 00:13:17,193 were kept from recognizing him. And he said to them, "What is this conversation 169 00:13:17,193 --> 00:13:22,413 that you are holding with each other as you walk?" And they stood still, looking 170 00:13:22,413 --> 00:13:27,633 sad. Then one of them, named Cleopas, answered him, "Are you the only visitor to 171 00:13:27,633 --> 00:13:32,853 Jerusalem that does not know the things that have happened there in these days?" 172 00:13:32,853 --> 00:13:38,073 And he said to them, "What things?" And they said to him, "Concerning Jesus of 173 00:13:38,073 --> 00:13:43,294 Nazareth, a man who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the 174 00:13:43,294 --> 00:13:48,514 people, and how our chief priests and rulers delivered him up to and condemned 175 00:13:48,514 --> 00:13:53,734 him to death and crucified him." But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem 176 00:13:53,734 --> 00:13:58,954 Israel. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things 177 00:13:58,954 --> 00:14:04,174 happened. Moreover, some women of our company amazed us. They were at the tomb 178 00:14:04,174 --> 00:14:09,394 early in the morning, and when they did not find his body, they came back saying 179 00:14:09,394 --> 00:14:14,614 that they had even seen a vision of angels who said that he was alive. Some of 180 00:14:14,614 --> 00:14:19,835 those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said. 181 00:14:19,835 --> 00:14:25,055 But him they did not see. And he said to them, O foolish ones, and slow of heart 182 00:14:25,055 --> 00:14:30,275 to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary that the 183 00:14:30,275 --> 00:14:35,495 Christ should suffer these things and enter into glory? And beginning with Moses 184 00:14:35,495 --> 00:14:40,715 and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things 185 00:14:40,715 --> 00:14:45,935 concerning himself. So they drew near to the village to which they were going. 186 00:14:45,935 --> 00:14:51,155 He acted as if he was going farther, but they urged him strongly, saying, "Stay 187 00:14:51,155 --> 00:14:56,375 with us, for it is toward evening and the day is now far spent." So he went in 188 00:14:56,375 --> 00:15:01,596 to stay with them. When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed 189 00:15:01,596 --> 00:15:06,816 it and broke it and gave it to them. And their eyes were opened, and they 190 00:15:06,816 --> 00:15:12,036 recognized him, and he vanished from their sight. They said to each other, "Did 191 00:15:12,036 --> 00:15:17,256 not our hearts burn within us when he talked to us on the road?" while he opened 192 00:15:17,256 --> 00:15:22,476 up the Scriptures. And they rose that same hour and returned to Jerusalem. Has 193 00:15:22,476 --> 00:15:27,696 your head ever been in a place where you've missed Jesus? You've heard God's 194 00:15:27,696 --> 00:15:32,916 Word in the past, you've seen his wonders in your own life, but somehow now you 195 00:15:32,916 --> 00:15:38,137 can't quite work out what's going on with his current situation. These guys that 196 00:15:38,137 --> 00:15:43,357 have been around with Jesus for 3 years every day and didn't recognize him. 197 00:15:43,357 --> 00:15:48,577 Sometimes God closes our eyes. Sometimes we blink our own eyes, thinking, as 198 00:15:48,577 --> 00:15:53,797 I've said before, that we talked about last week, that we have in our mind how 199 00:15:53,797 --> 00:15:59,017 God is going to do things. But then they recognized Him. Then their friend, 200 00:15:59,017 --> 00:16:04,237 their leader, Rabbi Jesus, and immediately they went back to Jerusalem, back 201 00:16:04,237 --> 00:16:09,457 along the Emmaus Road, but the other direction, back to the other disciples. The 202 00:16:09,457 --> 00:16:14,678 resurrection was a pivotal event, not just because of the miraculous nature of 203 00:16:14,678 --> 00:16:19,898 it, because of what it means to us. And it isn't just talked about in the 204 00:16:19,898 --> 00:16:25,118 Gospels, it's recorded in multiple books of the Bible. And perhaps one of the 205 00:16:25,118 --> 00:16:30,338 main passages is when Paul talks about it in writing to the Corinthian church. 206 00:16:30,338 --> 00:16:35,558 In chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians, he says this: For I delivered to you As of first 207 00:16:35,558 --> 00:16:40,778 importance, what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance 208 00:16:40,778 --> 00:16:45,998 with the Scriptures, that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day 209 00:16:45,998 --> 00:16:51,219 in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the 210 00:16:51,219 --> 00:16:56,439 Twelve, then he appeared to more than 500 brothers at one time, most of whom are 211 00:16:56,439 --> 00:17:01,659 still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to 212 00:17:01,659 --> 00:17:06,879 all the apostles, and last of all As to one untimely born, he appeared also to 213 00:17:06,879 --> 00:17:12,099 me. For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, 214 00:17:12,099 --> 00:17:17,319 because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, 215 00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:22,539 and his grace toward me was not in vain. So Paul summarizes some of the 216 00:17:22,539 --> 00:17:27,760 encounters with Jesus that others had. He mentions Cephas, and this is Simon, 217 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:32,980 that was another name for Simon. And 500 others. And he even says, if you don't 218 00:17:32,980 --> 00:17:38,200 believe me, loads of them are still alive, go and ask them. Well, you know, I 219 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:43,420 paraphrase that, but that's what he's saying. And some were already believers, 220 00:17:43,420 --> 00:17:48,640 and there was also James, the brother of Jesus. He gets a special mention, 221 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:53,860 because he'd been a bit of a skeptic. We heard earlier on in the Gospels that 222 00:17:53,860 --> 00:17:59,080 they, you know, what's my brother doing? But when he saw his brother back from 223 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:04,301 the dead, everything changed for him. Jesus was seen alive by many people for 40 224 00:18:04,301 --> 00:18:09,521 days after rising from the dead. Why does this miracle change things? Jesus, 225 00:18:09,521 --> 00:18:14,741 before the crucifixion, talked about being born again. He said, "The only way to 226 00:18:14,741 --> 00:18:19,961 come to the kingdom of heaven is to be born again." To die to our old self and 227 00:18:19,961 --> 00:18:25,181 to be raised in Christ. Well, when Jesus died and rose again, he was a literal 228 00:18:25,181 --> 00:18:30,401 living testimony that we can be made new. Let me share a story. I was watching a 229 00:18:30,401 --> 00:18:35,621 documentary with my daughter a few weeks ago about insects, and this particular 230 00:18:35,621 --> 00:18:40,842 episode was about the dragonfly. Anyone know the life cycle of a dragonfly? I 231 00:18:40,842 --> 00:18:46,062 didn't know it. No idea. I had no idea. I'd seen, you know, seen plenty of 232 00:18:46,062 --> 00:18:51,282 dragonflies around, and they're amazing, aren't they? They're like real-life 233 00:18:51,282 --> 00:18:56,502 quadcopters, I think. In the UK, I think they're probably one of the biggest 234 00:18:56,502 --> 00:19:01,722 insects we have. If you're watching from other parts of the world, or Australia, 235 00:19:01,722 --> 00:19:06,942 you can probably hear the comments, "That's not a bug, can't even kill you!" You 236 00:19:06,942 --> 00:19:12,162 know, but in the UK, pretty impressive. Amazing colours, speeding around, and 237 00:19:12,162 --> 00:19:17,383 they can just hover. So back to the life cycle. These insects, they start their 238 00:19:17,383 --> 00:19:22,603 life out underwater, and they're small nymphs, and they're pretty unassuming 239 00:19:22,603 --> 00:19:27,823 black nymphs that swim around in the water, gradually growing, often shedding 240 00:19:27,823 --> 00:19:33,043 their outer layers and slowly getting bigger. For up to 2 years, they're just 241 00:19:33,043 --> 00:19:38,263 floating around underwater, hidden from the world above, hidden from the air. 242 00:19:38,263 --> 00:19:43,483 Then one day, they climb up some kind of river plant or pond growth and out of 243 00:19:43,483 --> 00:19:48,703 the water. And this is where things start to get interesting. This nymph sheds 244 00:19:48,703 --> 00:19:53,923 its dark skin and its amazing colored blob of a creature sort of emerges, these 245 00:19:53,923 --> 00:19:59,144 colors that have never been seen before. It takes its first ever breath. Yeah, 246 00:19:59,144 --> 00:20:04,364 we're talking 2 minutes here. 2 years underwater, and then within minutes it's 247 00:20:04,364 --> 00:20:09,584 this colored blob on a stalk taking a breath. But it's still not finished, can't 248 00:20:09,584 --> 00:20:14,804 fly. And these wings roll out, and apparently they're inflated. That's what the 249 00:20:14,804 --> 00:20:20,024 documentary said. It's on the stalk, beautiful created wings that are inflated, 250 00:20:20,024 --> 00:20:25,244 and the sun's drying them. And then within an hour, it flies off transformed. 251 00:20:25,244 --> 00:20:30,464 It's the same creature that lived under the water, but it's different. It's the 252 00:20:30,464 --> 00:20:35,685 same, but it can breathe. It's the same, but it can fly. And why do I tell you 253 00:20:35,685 --> 00:20:40,905 this story? It's of the dragonfly. Well, I watched this documentary, and ever 254 00:20:40,905 --> 00:20:46,125 since I've been thinking about it. That nymph has the same DNA as the dragonfly. 255 00:20:46,125 --> 00:20:51,345 It's the same but different. Can I say it had a new life? It received breath. 256 00:20:51,345 --> 00:20:56,565 And as I'm reading more of the Bible and listening to much brainier people than 257 00:20:56,565 --> 00:21:01,785 me that can speak Greek and Hebrew, I've learned that the word in Hebrew for 258 00:21:01,785 --> 00:21:07,005 breath is the same as spirit. God breathes into us life. He breathed into Adam 259 00:21:07,005 --> 00:21:12,226 and Eve. And He left us the Holy Spirit. He's come to give us life. Jesus died 260 00:21:12,226 --> 00:21:17,446 on the cross and rose again. He conquered death. In John's Gospel, it says, "I 261 00:21:17,446 --> 00:21:22,666 came to give you life, and life in all its fullness." Let's read a bit more of 262 00:21:22,666 --> 00:21:27,886 the Corinthians and what Paul goes on to say. I'm going to jump ahead a bit. I'm 263 00:21:27,886 --> 00:21:33,106 going to read from The Message translation. I find The Message translation helps 264 00:21:33,106 --> 00:21:38,326 me understand the verses and passages of the Bible in a way that shows me the 265 00:21:38,326 --> 00:21:43,546 ideas and meaning behind some of the more complex theology. It's a paraphrase, 266 00:21:43,546 --> 00:21:48,767 it's not an exact translation, so we can't go into each word, but it really 267 00:21:48,767 --> 00:21:53,987 helps my brain to understand what Paul is trying to get across in his message. 268 00:21:53,987 --> 00:21:59,207 So, starting at verse 35. Some skeptic is sure to ask, "Show me how resurrection 269 00:21:59,207 --> 00:22:04,427 works. Give me a diagram, draw me a picture. What does this resurrection body 270 00:22:04,427 --> 00:22:09,647 look like?" If you look at this question closely, you realize how absurd it is. 271 00:22:09,647 --> 00:22:14,867 There are no diagrams for this kind of thing. Do not have a parallel experience 272 00:22:14,867 --> 00:22:20,087 in gardening. We do have a parallel experience in gardening. You plant a dead 273 00:22:20,087 --> 00:22:25,308 seed, soon there's a flourishing plant. There's no visual likeness between seed 274 00:22:25,308 --> 00:22:30,528 and plant. You can never guess what tomato would look like by looking at the 275 00:22:30,528 --> 00:22:35,748 tomato seed. What we plant in the soil and what grows out of it don't look 276 00:22:35,748 --> 00:22:40,968 anything alike. The dead body that we bury in the ground and the resurrection 277 00:22:40,968 --> 00:22:46,188 body that comes from it will be dramatically different. You'll notice that the 278 00:22:46,188 --> 00:22:51,408 varieties of bodies are stunning. Just as there are different kinds of seeds, 279 00:22:51,408 --> 00:22:56,628 there's also different kinds of bodies—humans, animals, fish, etc.—unprecedented 280 00:22:56,628 --> 00:23:01,849 in its form. You get a hint at the diversity of resurrection glory by looking at 281 00:23:01,849 --> 00:23:07,069 the diversity of bodies Not only on earth, but in the skies, in the sun, moon, 282 00:23:07,069 --> 00:23:12,289 stars, all these varieties of beauty and brightness. And we're only looking at 283 00:23:12,289 --> 00:23:17,509 pre-resurrection seeds. Who can imagine what the resurrection plants will be 284 00:23:17,509 --> 00:23:22,729 like? This image of planting a dead seed and raising a live plant is a mere 285 00:23:22,729 --> 00:23:27,949 sketch at best, but perhaps it will be— it will help in approaching the mystery 286 00:23:27,949 --> 00:23:33,169 of the resurrection. Only if you keep it in mind that when we're raised, we're 287 00:23:33,169 --> 00:23:38,390 raised for good, alive forever. The corpse that's planted is no beauty, but when 288 00:23:38,390 --> 00:23:43,610 it's raised, it's glorious. Put in the ground weak, it comes up powerful. The 289 00:23:43,610 --> 00:23:48,830 seed is natural, the seed grown is supernatural. Same seed, same body, but what 290 00:23:48,830 --> 00:23:54,050 a difference from when it goes down in physical mortality to when it's raised up 291 00:23:54,050 --> 00:23:59,270 in spiritual immortality. Isn't that great? Paul talks about a seed, like I 292 00:23:59,270 --> 00:24:04,490 talked about the dragonfly. The seed dies when in the ground, but when woken up, 293 00:24:04,490 --> 00:24:09,710 it grows. It's much stronger. It's a new creation. It's still from that seed. 294 00:24:09,710 --> 00:24:14,931 It's not a new thing, but it is a new thing. It has some of its original design, 295 00:24:14,931 --> 00:24:20,151 its essence, perhaps its DNA, but now it's got its potential. Christ died and 296 00:24:20,151 --> 00:24:25,371 rose that we can have life in Christ. Getting out of the Message paraphrase now 297 00:24:25,371 --> 00:24:30,591 and into the English Standard Version, which is what we often use in Crowd, it 298 00:24:30,591 --> 00:24:35,811 says this in verse 42: So it is with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown 299 00:24:35,811 --> 00:24:41,031 is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor; it is 300 00:24:41,031 --> 00:24:46,251 raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it's raised in power. It's sown in a 301 00:24:46,251 --> 00:24:51,471 natural body, it's raised a spiritual body. If there's a natural body, then 302 00:24:51,471 --> 00:24:56,692 there is also a spiritual body. There's a natural body and a spiritual body, and 303 00:24:56,692 --> 00:25:01,912 this natural body is not fit for heaven. We need to be transformed into the 304 00:25:01,912 --> 00:25:07,132 spiritual body for heaven. Paul says later we'll be changed in the twinkling of 305 00:25:07,132 --> 00:25:12,352 an eye. But Jesus was raised When Jesus was raised, he took off that corruptible 306 00:25:12,352 --> 00:25:17,572 body and he looked the same, but death no longer had power over him. And because 307 00:25:17,572 --> 00:25:22,792 of this death, his death, it no longer has power over us. Jesus was the same 308 00:25:22,792 --> 00:25:28,012 man. The disciples spoke to him, they ate with him. He wasn't a ghost or an 309 00:25:28,012 --> 00:25:33,233 apparition. A ghost can't eat. An apparition or hallucination appears to one 310 00:25:33,233 --> 00:25:38,453 person at a time, not different people altogether. Jesus was physical. You may 311 00:25:38,453 --> 00:25:43,673 have heard, when you've heard the Easter story before, about Thomas' words 312 00:25:43,673 --> 00:25:48,893 saying, "Unless I see the marks in his hands and feet and his side, I won't 313 00:25:48,893 --> 00:25:54,113 believe." Often called Doubting Thomas, and I think that's perhaps a bit unfair 314 00:25:54,113 --> 00:25:59,333 because if I was there, I think I'd want to check. I want to check that this was 315 00:25:59,333 --> 00:26:04,553 the Jesus I knew. And when Jesus saw him, He said, "Thomas, come and put your 316 00:26:04,553 --> 00:26:09,774 hands here. Touch Me where the nails were." There's two things that I want to 317 00:26:09,774 --> 00:26:14,994 pick up on here. Firstly, when Thomas said, "I won't believe until He wasn't 318 00:26:14,994 --> 00:26:20,214 with Jesus," "I won't believe until I see Him," he wasn't actually with Jesus. 319 00:26:20,214 --> 00:26:25,434 He was with some of the other disciples who were recounting their stories of 320 00:26:25,434 --> 00:26:30,654 seeing Jesus and then 8 days later, Thomas comes and he says to him, 'Put your 321 00:26:30,654 --> 00:26:35,874 hands here.' Jesus knew what Thomas had said without being with him, and this 322 00:26:35,874 --> 00:26:41,094 was, I think, part of the resurrected Jesus. He and the Father are one, and yes, 323 00:26:41,094 --> 00:26:46,315 him and the Father have always been one, but something happened in that 324 00:26:46,315 --> 00:26:51,535 resurrected that form, and he called Thomas and said, "Come and see." Jesus, God 325 00:26:51,535 --> 00:26:56,755 our Father, knows what we need. And secondly, I was struck by what Dave Connolly 326 00:26:56,755 --> 00:27:01,975 said a few weeks ago about scars, that they sort of remind us of some of the 327 00:27:01,975 --> 00:27:07,195 events that we've had in the past. And I thought, Jesus, he carried those scars 328 00:27:07,195 --> 00:27:12,415 as a reminder of what had happened, what he'd been through. He was raised from 329 00:27:12,415 --> 00:27:17,635 the dead. It was miraculous. His back was torn. He probably lost most of his 330 00:27:17,635 --> 00:27:22,856 blood when he's raised from the dead. That miracle happened. God, of course, 331 00:27:22,856 --> 00:27:28,076 could have healed every part of him and healed those, those scars as well. one 332 00:27:28,076 --> 00:27:33,296 of the prophets Isaiah hundreds of years before. He said, "By His stripes we are 333 00:27:33,296 --> 00:27:38,516 healed." Those scars bear the testimony of those stripes. When I read the 334 00:27:38,516 --> 00:27:43,736 passage earlier, you may have noted that Jesus appeared to them, and after His 335 00:27:43,736 --> 00:27:48,956 resurrection, this happened multiple times. He was just there. And I don't know, 336 00:27:48,956 --> 00:27:54,176 and I don't understand this, but just to say that this risen Jesus broke the 337 00:27:54,176 --> 00:27:59,397 power of sin and death and the power of natural that was upon Him. He also seems 338 00:27:59,397 --> 00:28:04,617 to pray, you know, in the past He broke some of the natural laws, didn't He? He 339 00:28:04,617 --> 00:28:09,837 walked on water. But it happened so much more after rising from the dead. Many 340 00:28:09,837 --> 00:28:15,057 times He just appeared to those around Him. I'd love to know where He was when 341 00:28:15,057 --> 00:28:20,277 He wasn't with those that recorded these encounters. Perhaps He was spending 342 00:28:20,277 --> 00:28:25,497 time just with, you know, with His Father. I don't know. What does Easter mean 343 00:28:25,497 --> 00:28:30,717 For us? Well, we've just seen a little bit. It's a massive question. But I 344 00:28:30,717 --> 00:28:35,938 believe there's too much evidence to ignore this miracle. What's it going to 345 00:28:35,938 --> 00:28:41,158 mean to you? One thing is for sure, the power of death was broken. Sin was 346 00:28:41,158 --> 00:28:46,378 defeated. Going back again to Paul in 1 Corinthians, and we haven't enough time 347 00:28:46,378 --> 00:28:51,598 to read all of it, but I'd encourage you to read it. Paul gets excited. He 348 00:28:51,598 --> 00:28:56,818 proclaims, "Death is swallowed up in victory." O death, where is your victory? O 349 00:28:56,818 --> 00:29:02,038 death, where is your sting? Quoting some of Isaiah the prophet, he will swallow 350 00:29:02,038 --> 00:29:07,258 up death forever, and the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces. If we 351 00:29:07,258 --> 00:29:12,479 truly know that death has been beaten, then what does it mean for us, this life 352 00:29:12,479 --> 00:29:17,699 on earth? What does it mean for our priorities? If this life is just a glimpse 353 00:29:17,699 --> 00:29:22,919 of life with God, if this life is a struggle but eternity is the goal, then 354 00:29:22,919 --> 00:29:28,139 where's our focus? Where is my focus? Is it more wealth, more earthly things, or 355 00:29:28,139 --> 00:29:33,359 is it more heavenly reward, more resurrected friends in heaven with us? Does it 356 00:29:33,359 --> 00:29:38,579 make it easier that life can be less about us and more about others? Oh God, 357 00:29:38,579 --> 00:29:43,799 thank you for your ultimate sacrifice. Thank you for a transformed life, for 358 00:29:43,799 --> 00:29:49,019 life after death. Thank you for Easter. 359 00:29:52,490 --> 00:29:58,373 Oh man, oh man, I mean, how exciting it is, isn't it? It's like those glimpses 360 00:29:58,373 --> 00:30:04,256 of just something other. Yeah, really, that really caught my imagination. 361 00:30:04,256 --> 00:30:10,140 Imagine being that little nymph and going, I'm going to be a dragonfly one day, 362 00:30:10,140 --> 00:30:16,023 because they've got no concept of it. And And like the guys on Emmaus, they 363 00:30:16,023 --> 00:30:21,906 didn't really have the concept of what this meant and what this— what, what they 364 00:30:21,906 --> 00:30:27,789 could be as a result. It was so— they were kind of locked into what they 365 00:30:27,789 --> 00:30:33,673 understood, which was we live, we die, that's it. and there's, there's no kind 366 00:30:33,673 --> 00:30:39,556 of legacy beyond that. And yet here was Jesus just kind of just giving them a 367 00:30:39,556 --> 00:30:45,440 glimpse of like, there is so much more. How exciting, how exciting. 368 00:30:46,029 --> 00:30:50,240 Yeah, there was so much in that talk, Dan. Thank you so much for that. I just 369 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,450 love the question that you finished on, like, what does Easter mean to you? And 370 00:30:54,450 --> 00:30:58,660 I think that is something that, yeah, we can all ask, whether we're searching 371 00:30:58,660 --> 00:31:02,869 and looking into Christianity for the first time, whether we've been Christians 372 00:31:02,869 --> 00:31:07,079 for years and years like some of us around this table have. I just feel like 373 00:31:07,079 --> 00:31:11,289 That's something we can all take away and mull over, and like, certainly 374 00:31:11,289 --> 00:31:15,500 something I'll take away and continue to think about over the next few days. 375 00:31:15,559 --> 00:31:20,517 It's just too big a question, isn't it, to dismiss? It's too big an event. 376 00:31:20,517 --> 00:31:25,474 Yeah. If you believe it's true, and I have no evidence to say it's not true, you 377 00:31:25,474 --> 00:31:30,432 know, there's more evidence that it happened, what are you going to do about it? 378 00:31:30,432 --> 00:31:35,390 What am I going to continue to do about it? 379 00:31:35,460 --> 00:31:37,325 And how's it What does it mean for your life, and how does it potentially 380 00:31:37,325 --> 00:31:39,190 change your life? 381 00:31:39,869 --> 00:31:44,054 Yeah, yeah, it's good questions to sit with, really. Absolutely. And I feel 382 00:31:44,054 --> 00:31:48,238 like another thing that really struck me from, from your talk, Dan, was that 383 00:31:48,238 --> 00:31:52,423 this, this issue of expectation, that clearly that his followers were not 384 00:31:52,423 --> 00:31:56,607 expecting this end. The guys on the mess were not expecting this end. They, they 385 00:31:56,607 --> 00:32:00,791 probably had— they had a whole load of other scenarios that might work out, but 386 00:32:00,791 --> 00:32:04,976 this they did not expect. Curiously, in the Easter story, the authorities did 387 00:32:04,976 --> 00:32:09,160 expect it because they say in one of the accounts, it's like, oh, while he was 388 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,344 alive, he said he was going to rise from the dead after 3 days, so put a guard 389 00:32:13,344 --> 00:32:17,529 on the tomb and make sure that that doesn't happen because that lie will be 390 00:32:17,529 --> 00:32:21,713 awful for us. And yet his followers, who also have been told several times by 391 00:32:21,713 --> 00:32:25,898 Jesus that he would die and rise again, are just completely floored by it. And 392 00:32:25,898 --> 00:32:30,082 when the women come back, they say, You're talking nonsense. I mean, literally, 393 00:32:30,082 --> 00:32:34,266 you're talking nonsense. I don't believe you. Yeah. And so that their 394 00:32:34,266 --> 00:32:38,451 expectations were just too small. And that's what I love about Easter. It just— 395 00:32:38,451 --> 00:32:42,635 as the tomb breaks open, it just breaks open our expectations of Jesus as well. 396 00:32:42,635 --> 00:32:46,819 Yeah, absolutely right. 397 00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:51,418 And yeah, I also think— I love that point that you made, Dan, about, when 398 00:32:51,418 --> 00:32:55,887 Thomas was asking to see the holes in his hands, and he wanted to see the scars 399 00:32:55,887 --> 00:33:00,355 for himself before he believed it. He wanted to see Jesus up close, right in 400 00:33:00,355 --> 00:33:04,824 front of him. Like, I won't I don't believe it until I see it for myself. And I 401 00:33:04,824 --> 00:33:09,293 also think I love that inclusion, but in, in scripture, because I feel like, 402 00:33:09,293 --> 00:33:13,761 aren't we all like that? Like, I need to experience God for myself. I need to 403 00:33:13,761 --> 00:33:18,230 meet this Jesus face to face and experience him in my own life and understand 404 00:33:18,230 --> 00:33:22,699 what his presence and his reality in my life actually means and get up close and 405 00:33:22,699 --> 00:33:27,168 personal. Otherwise it's just religion, isn't it? It's just following some 406 00:33:27,168 --> 00:33:31,636 rules, some ancient religion. And I feel like we all have an element of that. 407 00:33:31,636 --> 00:33:36,105 And I love that inclusion of that bit in the story, actually, because it's like, 408 00:33:36,105 --> 00:33:40,574 it's absolutely valid to be like, you know, if you're kind of thinking, oh, 409 00:33:40,574 --> 00:33:45,042 maybe there's something in this Christianity thing, but I need to understand it 410 00:33:45,042 --> 00:33:49,511 and meet God, you know, meet Jesus for myself and really see the proof, that's 411 00:33:49,511 --> 00:33:53,980 okay. Like, ask God to show you, because I believe he will. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 412 00:33:54,079 --> 00:33:58,630 I love that fact. Yeah, yeah. And also that just the whole concept of 413 00:33:58,630 --> 00:34:03,181 greetings, it's just like that real trim down. It's like, yeah, not only is 414 00:34:03,181 --> 00:34:07,732 Jesus risen from the dead, which is like, you know, there was belief in Jewish 415 00:34:07,732 --> 00:34:12,282 thought about resurrection, but no one had done it. Yeah, yeah. so there was, 416 00:34:12,282 --> 00:34:16,833 there was that, that reality because they're seeing Jesus, the physical Jesus, 417 00:34:16,833 --> 00:34:21,384 eating. They can touch him, you know, physical. But he's not some elevated 418 00:34:21,384 --> 00:34:25,934 being. He's still their friend. Yeah, he's still like, hey, I just want to hang 419 00:34:25,934 --> 00:34:30,485 out with you. And yeah, I'm going to appear to these 500 people and I'm going to 420 00:34:30,485 --> 00:34:35,036 walk with you for the next 40 days or whatever it is till he finally ascended 421 00:34:35,036 --> 00:34:39,587 into heaven. And I mean, that, that must properly blow, blow their mind, you 422 00:34:39,587 --> 00:34:44,137 know? It's like, yeah, yeah, he wrote— he rose again. He's far too great for me 423 00:34:44,137 --> 00:34:48,688 now. He's like, he's not gonna eat fish with me. I was like, yeah, I followed 424 00:34:48,688 --> 00:34:53,239 him for 3 years, but he's like He's on another level now. But now he comes right 425 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,789 back and he just walks with them as a friend. Yeah, that's incredible. 426 00:34:58,449 --> 00:35:04,033 It's just so lovely, isn't it? It is. You just defeated death. You've been, 427 00:35:04,033 --> 00:35:09,616 however you want to describe it, down to Hades. Your spirit is conquered. And 428 00:35:09,616 --> 00:35:15,199 then, greetings. I'll just go back to my mates now. 429 00:35:15,309 --> 00:35:16,530 Yeah. And, yeah. 430 00:35:16,929 --> 00:35:18,340 But I also— Go and tell everyone. 431 00:35:18,599 --> 00:35:23,170 Yeah, I know. Also, love, like, before all of that, like, the first people that 432 00:35:23,170 --> 00:35:27,741 he appears to are the women. And I love, you know, we're talking about a series 433 00:35:27,741 --> 00:35:32,311 at the moment, aren't we? We're about to go into it about, like, how Jesus is a 434 00:35:32,311 --> 00:35:36,882 complete revolutionary and how he, how he was so countercultural in his day. And 435 00:35:36,882 --> 00:35:41,452 it's just another really good example of how Jesus took kind of what people 436 00:35:41,452 --> 00:35:46,023 expected It just turned it upside down. Like, the Jews wanted this, like, savior 437 00:35:46,023 --> 00:35:50,594 figure who was gonna, like, come victoriously, and they thought that's what they 438 00:35:50,594 --> 00:35:55,164 were getting on Palm Sunday. But then he was riding a donkey, and then a week 439 00:35:55,164 --> 00:35:59,735 later he's crucified. Like, what happened to this, like, political— great 440 00:35:59,735 --> 00:36:04,305 political leader who was going to lead our nation into freedom? And Jesus turns 441 00:36:04,305 --> 00:36:08,876 it on his head. And then again with the women, it's like, well, You know, women 442 00:36:08,876 --> 00:36:13,447 didn't have the same cultural standing as men in those days, and Jesus was like, 443 00:36:13,447 --> 00:36:18,017 no, I'm gonna put the women front and central of the story in a culture and a 444 00:36:18,017 --> 00:36:22,588 time zone when women weren't front and center, really. And I just love the fact 445 00:36:22,588 --> 00:36:27,158 that this, you know, who Jesus is, just constantly turns expectation. And yeah, 446 00:36:27,158 --> 00:36:31,729 it's so counterculture, isn't it? It just takes what you expect and it's so much 447 00:36:31,729 --> 00:36:36,300 better, like, turns it upside down. 448 00:36:36,409 --> 00:36:40,881 Yeah, no, absolutely. And I heard a lovely thing actually today, just thinking 449 00:36:40,881 --> 00:36:45,352 about the women coming to the tomb, because the reason they're coming to the 450 00:36:45,352 --> 00:36:49,823 tomb is there wasn't time between the death and then the Sabbath, where you do 451 00:36:49,823 --> 00:36:54,294 no work, to anoint Jesus' body for burial, anoint them with like fragrant oil 452 00:36:54,294 --> 00:36:58,765 and sort of preserving it. And it was an act of worship, and for them it was 453 00:36:58,765 --> 00:37:03,237 their final act of worship. It's like, I don't understand Jesus, but it's been 454 00:37:03,237 --> 00:37:07,708 amazing knowing you. Thank you for all you've given, and this is my final act of 455 00:37:07,708 --> 00:37:12,179 gratitude is just to anoint your dead body, and then, oh man, and that 456 00:37:12,179 --> 00:37:16,650 beginning, that dawning of like, there's something else going on here that's 457 00:37:16,650 --> 00:37:21,121 completely new, must have been incredible. Yeah. Why, why the women? I mean, I'm 458 00:37:21,121 --> 00:37:25,592 totally with you, it's like, it's another, it's another kind of point of 459 00:37:25,592 --> 00:37:30,064 association, I suppose, in the story. But I wonder what would have been 460 00:37:30,064 --> 00:37:34,535 different if it had been Yeah, the men. If it just kind of appeared straight 461 00:37:34,535 --> 00:37:39,006 away to, say, the 12 or whatever, I wonder what it was about the, the women's 462 00:37:39,006 --> 00:37:43,477 testimony. Maybe we'll never know. It's not really written down, but even in the 463 00:37:43,477 --> 00:37:47,948 early church, that the fact that it was the women's testimony and they were the 464 00:37:47,948 --> 00:37:52,420 first, I wonder. It's something you've ever thought about. 465 00:37:52,630 --> 00:37:57,484 But no, it's just, it's when sort of going into the talk, it was because I've, 466 00:37:57,484 --> 00:38:02,338 I've heard it before. They've said, well, you know, it was a— it wasn't a 467 00:38:02,338 --> 00:38:07,193 testimony that you'd— they would take as granted and then and never sort of use 468 00:38:07,193 --> 00:38:12,047 that to realize, well, that actually makes it more realistic because of that. 469 00:38:12,047 --> 00:38:16,902 Yeah. and like I was, I was trying to say, if you, if, you know, there's 3 of us 470 00:38:16,902 --> 00:38:21,756 and we've committed this, this crime, we get all these little details correct, 471 00:38:21,756 --> 00:38:26,611 don't we? And the fact it was just— yeah, yeah, these women and probably more of 472 00:38:26,611 --> 00:38:31,465 them than even written down there. Just like you say, yeah, grieving, but also 473 00:38:31,465 --> 00:38:36,320 bold. The men were off somewhere. 474 00:38:36,389 --> 00:38:37,880 The women stuck around. 475 00:38:37,989 --> 00:38:41,279 I kind of love that fact though, the men, where were they? Exactly, Jesus went 476 00:38:41,279 --> 00:38:44,570 to the women first, where were all the men? 477 00:38:44,739 --> 00:38:49,737 Hiding somewhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah, incredible. And I think that I mean, you 478 00:38:49,737 --> 00:38:54,734 know, obviously resurrection is a difficult thing to get your head around, and, 479 00:38:54,734 --> 00:38:59,731 and so many, so many people, they get to that point of like, well, yeah, and 480 00:38:59,731 --> 00:39:04,729 Jesus seems a great guy and seems great, great teaching to follow, but 481 00:39:04,729 --> 00:39:09,726 resurrection, really? And again, I really like your analogy of the nymph there, 482 00:39:09,726 --> 00:39:14,723 that it's really hard to grasp something so beyond what our reality— that we're 483 00:39:14,723 --> 00:39:19,720 so bound up in our physical self-centered reality at times. And, and what this 484 00:39:19,720 --> 00:39:24,718 story begins to bring, it just breaks that open, begins to give us a glimpse. 485 00:39:24,718 --> 00:39:29,715 And you did— the Corinthians passage does it brilliantly. Yeah, that's just a 486 00:39:29,715 --> 00:39:34,712 little foretaste. There's so much more. What would a resurrected plant look 487 00:39:34,712 --> 00:39:39,710 like? Yeah, let alone— yeah, I love that. I love— 488 00:39:39,739 --> 00:39:43,364 that's, that's why I quite enjoy reading The Message, because you just get that 489 00:39:43,364 --> 00:39:46,989 little bit of sort of excitement in there, don't you? Well, this is, this is 490 00:39:46,989 --> 00:39:50,614 what this seed has happened, this is just a natural seed. What's a resurrected 491 00:39:50,614 --> 00:39:54,239 seed look like? 492 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:58,703 Yeah, yeah. So yeah, if you're struggling with that whole how can someone come 493 00:39:58,703 --> 00:40:03,086 back to life, just, I don't know, maybe just test God out and say, give me that 494 00:40:03,086 --> 00:40:07,470 glimpse of something so much beyond my experience and my earthly knowledge and 495 00:40:07,470 --> 00:40:11,853 my natural assumptions. Because actually, this whole story is full of that, 496 00:40:11,853 --> 00:40:16,236 isn't it? It's full of those little instances that just kind of break open our 497 00:40:16,236 --> 00:40:20,619 assumptions and our expectations. 498 00:40:21,119 --> 00:40:25,666 This is an interesting question that's just come through on the feed, actually. 499 00:40:25,666 --> 00:40:30,212 So why do you think, so many people are willing today to accept, like, Christian 500 00:40:30,212 --> 00:40:34,758 values and culture or ideas, but not the Christian— actual core Christian facts 501 00:40:34,758 --> 00:40:39,304 about the resurrection that we've discussed tonight? Like, why is it that people 502 00:40:39,304 --> 00:40:43,851 like that idea of, you know, cultural Christianity or its values, like, oh yeah, 503 00:40:43,851 --> 00:40:48,397 love each other There's a question on the screen now. but yeah, like, don't 504 00:40:48,397 --> 00:40:52,943 necessarily accept the whole resurrection thing as Dan outlined it tonight. Dan, 505 00:40:52,943 --> 00:40:57,489 that was a good pass. 506 00:40:58,619 --> 00:41:02,739 I first answer would be it's the easy way to do it, isn't it? Like I said at 507 00:41:02,739 --> 00:41:06,859 the beginning, we can— I think we can store lots of things of the Bible as 508 00:41:06,859 --> 00:41:10,980 fables. We can read it and go 'Yeah, that's just history. I don't really have to 509 00:41:10,980 --> 00:41:15,099 take that in.' And we can take lots of the bits that are easier to do, the good 510 00:41:15,099 --> 00:41:19,219 bits. 511 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,095 Be nice to people. Be nice to people. I mean, that's not that easy. Not 512 00:41:22,095 --> 00:41:24,389 everyone, but yeah, generally. 513 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:29,974 Yeah, help your neighbour out. Yeah. But at some point we've got to decide, are 514 00:41:29,974 --> 00:41:35,508 we going to take the tricky bits? On my Facebook feed today has been full of, 515 00:41:35,508 --> 00:41:41,041 you know, got Christians putting about Easter Lots of political parties now put 516 00:41:41,041 --> 00:41:46,576 in things like, 'He is risen.' Like, do you know what you've just put there? Do 517 00:41:46,576 --> 00:41:52,110 you know? You've just put there a miracle. It's not some platitude. You've just 518 00:41:52,110 --> 00:41:57,644 said a man was dead and he rose again. You've put that on your party. Do we 519 00:41:57,644 --> 00:42:03,178 really take it? Yeah. Do we really take that in? And perhaps Perhaps they don't, 520 00:42:03,178 --> 00:42:08,711 but I just think it's great. That is one of the things about this so-called, you 521 00:42:08,711 --> 00:42:14,246 know, Matt talked to the great talk about, sort of the, what do you call it, the 522 00:42:14,246 --> 00:42:19,780 political Christianity, Christian nationalism. 523 00:42:19,829 --> 00:42:20,050 Really? 524 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:25,536 Yes, there's lots of things that aren't great about it, but it does mean that a 525 00:42:25,536 --> 00:42:30,753 lot of these things invade our and media and stuff, this, he is risen, just gets 526 00:42:30,753 --> 00:42:35,969 plastered everywhere. And like, what are you gonna do? 527 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,568 But at the same time, it's like that thing of like just making it a nice thing 528 00:42:40,568 --> 00:42:44,857 to say, or like a platitude, or just like Jesus set up some nice rules to live 529 00:42:44,857 --> 00:42:49,146 by. Like, they make us nicer people and, you know, more generous and be kind and 530 00:42:49,146 --> 00:42:53,435 don't hurt others. And all of those things, like, don't get me wrong, none of us 531 00:42:53,435 --> 00:42:57,724 would disagree with any of that. But if it's just about being a good person, 532 00:42:57,724 --> 00:43:02,013 then why do you need the cross or the resurrection at all? Like, as soon as you 533 00:43:02,013 --> 00:43:06,302 take that resurrection out of the Easter story, actually you've taken all the 534 00:43:06,302 --> 00:43:10,591 power away. Yeah, like, if you haven't conquered sin and death, yeah, what's the 535 00:43:10,591 --> 00:43:14,880 point? Like, I don't need God to just be like an all right person. 536 00:43:14,929 --> 00:43:18,993 I can do that on my own. Paul later says, he says, if there's no resurrection, 537 00:43:18,993 --> 00:43:23,056 then eat and drink, for tomorrow we die. Yeah, that's it. There's no, there's no 538 00:43:23,056 --> 00:43:27,119 point unless there's no hope, is there? 539 00:43:27,159 --> 00:43:31,797 There's like And I mean, to take you back to the dragonfly example, if you've 540 00:43:31,797 --> 00:43:36,433 just lived a really good life as a nymph, you're kind to all the other nymphs 541 00:43:36,433 --> 00:43:41,070 and you kind of made space for them and you lived a life of service, you know, 542 00:43:41,070 --> 00:43:45,708 that would be amazing. If you just follow Jesus' teaching, yeah, that would 543 00:43:45,708 --> 00:43:50,344 absolutely transform the world. But it's just the start, it's just the little 544 00:43:50,344 --> 00:43:54,981 beginning. And when you get the hope then of eternity and proper kind of power 545 00:43:54,981 --> 00:43:59,619 that can change whole systems and, and all the politics. It goes so much beyond 546 00:43:59,619 --> 00:44:04,255 our individual kind of choices into something, well, cosmic, really. I mean, 547 00:44:04,255 --> 00:44:08,893 it's just— and again, it's really hard to get your head around it unless you've 548 00:44:08,893 --> 00:44:13,529 tasted a bit of it. And even then, it's like, well, there's— yes, so much more. 549 00:44:13,529 --> 00:44:18,166 But I think that, that, that hope, because however much you try to follow a good 550 00:44:18,166 --> 00:44:22,804 set of teaching, there's still an awful lot of rubbish and darkness that you 551 00:44:22,804 --> 00:44:27,440 say, well, what about that? Yeah, how do you deal with that? And, and, and I 552 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:32,077 don't think you can read the Gospels seriously without seeing those kind of, 553 00:44:32,077 --> 00:44:36,715 those little pointers that Jesus is always pointing to something far more than 554 00:44:36,715 --> 00:44:41,351 just the, the moral teaching. But I think you're right, it's an easier position 555 00:44:41,351 --> 00:44:45,989 to take, isn't it? because because we don't want to— I don't know, we don't want 556 00:44:45,989 --> 00:44:50,626 to sound weird and say, well, people can't rise from the dead. Of course they 557 00:44:50,626 --> 00:44:55,262 can. And it's like, as you say, you get into some of the more radical bits, that 558 00:44:55,262 --> 00:44:59,900 is the essence. 559 00:45:00,019 --> 00:45:04,848 Yeah, but also harder to start. It's kind of— it's kind of hard to get your 560 00:45:04,848 --> 00:45:09,676 head around. But then also, who wants a God who fits into a nice little box that 561 00:45:09,676 --> 00:45:14,504 is of our own human making? If he's that small, then I just kind of think, yeah, 562 00:45:14,504 --> 00:45:19,332 but I don't I want a small God who's actually not much more powerful or 563 00:45:19,332 --> 00:45:24,160 impressive than I am. Yeah, I want a God who is, you know, massive and has 564 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,989 created the world and is able to do anything. Like, what's the point really? We 565 00:45:28,989 --> 00:45:33,817 may as well all just go home. Like, I, I don't know, I, I kind of think it's 566 00:45:33,817 --> 00:45:38,645 challenging, but actually, yeah, faith is challenging, but if it's, if it's not, 567 00:45:38,645 --> 00:45:43,473 you know, all-powerful, then what is the point? Like, I just— yeah. I don't 568 00:45:43,473 --> 00:45:48,301 know. I think that's true. I don't want a faith that's like, oh, just like, 569 00:45:48,301 --> 00:45:53,130 yeah, it's kind of a fable, but it has a good moral to it. 570 00:45:53,289 --> 00:45:57,717 Yeah. And, you know, to be honest, it's much harder with the distance of time 571 00:45:57,717 --> 00:46:02,144 and I mean, the cultural, the scientific development of the past 2,000 years. 572 00:46:02,144 --> 00:46:06,572 It's much harder to grasp. Yeah. But again, thinking back to, you mentioned 573 00:46:06,572 --> 00:46:11,000 this, those— there were, there were people, there were eyewitnesses. People 574 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:15,427 could go, they could contact them, like a lot of eyewitnesses, tell me your 575 00:46:15,427 --> 00:46:19,855 story. And there would be— and those stories corroborated each other because 576 00:46:19,855 --> 00:46:24,282 they were all there. And, and, and I, I think probably early on after Jesus, you 577 00:46:24,282 --> 00:46:28,710 know, early church, it wasn't such a big deal. It's like, well, of course Jesus 578 00:46:28,710 --> 00:46:33,137 rose from the dead because like there's all these people that saw it. It wasn't 579 00:46:33,137 --> 00:46:37,565 just like one or two people. And for us looking back, it's like, oh yes, but for 580 00:46:37,565 --> 00:46:41,992 them it was like, it was kind of almost taken for granted. Like, yeah, of 581 00:46:41,992 --> 00:46:46,420 course. 582 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:50,902 And it's almost too easy to kind of put it down to like, oh, some made-up story 583 00:46:50,902 --> 00:46:55,045 now. But actually, if you look at the facts and all the historical accounts and 584 00:46:55,045 --> 00:46:59,187 how many people he appeared to and how many instances and how it's all recorded 585 00:46:59,187 --> 00:47:03,329 by multiple historians and stuff, like it's not that easy to dismiss. 586 00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:07,103 If you really look into the facts. I'd really recommend that, that book, both 587 00:47:07,103 --> 00:47:10,487 The Case for Christ and The Case for Easter, because it's brilliant. It looks 588 00:47:10,487 --> 00:47:13,871 at, it looks at all those accounts and other teachings around, you know, that 589 00:47:13,871 --> 00:47:17,255 time and stuff. Yeah, it's well worth if you, if you're wondering about all 590 00:47:17,255 --> 00:47:20,639 this. Yeah, yeah. 591 00:47:20,750 --> 00:47:24,485 And you kind of picked up on it as well in, your talk down when you were 592 00:47:24,485 --> 00:47:28,221 saying, was it like Paul that was saying, oh well, if you don't believe what I'm 593 00:47:28,221 --> 00:47:31,958 saying, go down the road and ask so-and-so and so-and-so. And it's Yeah, it's 594 00:47:31,958 --> 00:47:35,693 kind of implicit there in the Bible that there was a lot of eyewitnesses, and 595 00:47:35,693 --> 00:47:39,429 yeah, you couldn't just be making it up. 596 00:47:39,530 --> 00:47:43,958 No. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, we're in a different age, but that's still 597 00:47:43,958 --> 00:47:48,387 true, isn't it? But there's still plenty of eyewitness— I mean, not so much, but 598 00:47:48,387 --> 00:47:52,816 certainly kind of testimony of those that have met with Jesus and seen, got this 599 00:47:52,816 --> 00:47:57,245 glimpse of like this complete transformation of way beyond their expectation of 600 00:47:57,245 --> 00:48:01,674 what life could be. and you know, if, if that's of interest, seek them out. 601 00:48:01,674 --> 00:48:06,103 Yeah, get in touch with Crowd Church. Yeah, yeah. That they're— although we 602 00:48:06,103 --> 00:48:10,532 didn't walk physically on the planet with Jesus, you know, there's plenty, 603 00:48:10,532 --> 00:48:14,961 plenty of testimony of real, real transformation. Anything else in the comments, 604 00:48:14,961 --> 00:48:19,389 Anna? not really. 605 00:48:19,510 --> 00:48:23,780 That's come through, I don't think. Not that I can spot. but yeah, any final 606 00:48:23,780 --> 00:48:28,050 thoughts from you, Dan? 607 00:48:29,670 --> 00:48:35,284 no, I think just if you've thought about anything this Easter and you thought, 608 00:48:35,284 --> 00:48:40,898 well, what if it is true? Then what if it's true? What if it's true? What are 609 00:48:40,898 --> 00:48:46,511 you going to do? Yeah, you've got to make a decision. You've got to dismiss it 610 00:48:46,511 --> 00:48:52,125 or you've got to accept it. and we just encourage you to get, get to know this 611 00:48:52,125 --> 00:48:57,739 Jesus because he's alive. There's nothing Yeah, he's alive. 612 00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:03,394 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think for me, just, you know, if you're, if you're 613 00:49:03,394 --> 00:49:08,470 feeling, even as we've been talking, as you've been listening, if you're very 614 00:49:08,470 --> 00:49:13,545 feeling very limited in your expectation, maybe that's limited by your 615 00:49:13,545 --> 00:49:18,619 experience to this point, or, or rationality, or, or learning, or whatever it 616 00:49:18,619 --> 00:49:23,695 is. you know, if you read the accounts of Jesus, he was constantly challenging 617 00:49:23,695 --> 00:49:28,769 those expectations and pushing those boundaries. And he wants to do that with 618 00:49:28,769 --> 00:49:33,844 each of us now, today, exactly the same. So if you've got a limit, that your 619 00:49:33,844 --> 00:49:38,920 expectations are too small, maybe just explore, maybe even pray, maybe even say, 620 00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:43,994 God, just show more of yourself. What is this amazing dragonfly idea that maybe 621 00:49:43,994 --> 00:49:49,069 you want to to begin to speak to me, because God will answer that prayer. And 622 00:49:49,069 --> 00:49:54,144 every time, I believe. Yeah. Yeah, it's a totally transformational story, isn't 623 00:49:54,144 --> 00:49:59,219 it? 624 00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:04,210 It's, yeah, it's supernatural, and it will completely change your life if you 625 00:50:04,210 --> 00:50:09,100 can go away, have a look at the facts, and allow that to, yeah, to change your 626 00:50:09,100 --> 00:50:13,990 life as well. Ellis has put in the comments, I think the fact that the Bible 627 00:50:13,990 --> 00:50:18,880 isn't just a collection of fables is a really great point. It can be so easy to 628 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:23,769 forget or overlook that. And I think, yeah, that's so true. It's so easy to just 629 00:50:23,769 --> 00:50:28,660 be like, oh yeah, we've all heard the Easter story before, the cross, this, 630 00:50:28,660 --> 00:50:33,550 that, the other happens. And even as Christians, like, you know, you can get 631 00:50:33,550 --> 00:50:38,440 very familiar with the story, can't you? And forget that it's completely 632 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:43,329 life-changing at its core, that there's this, like, world-changing, you know, 633 00:50:43,329 --> 00:50:48,220 supernatural, kind of death to life, resurrection power at the center of it. And 634 00:50:48,220 --> 00:50:53,110 yeah, that's kind of what we're here for. 635 00:50:53,590 --> 00:50:58,984 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh man, oh man. Thank you so much, Dan. That was just, yeah, 636 00:50:58,984 --> 00:51:04,378 fantastic, exploding the Easter story again for us. As you say, it becomes very 637 00:51:04,378 --> 00:51:09,772 familiar, but that was, that was wonderful. if anything's just touched you as 638 00:51:09,772 --> 00:51:15,167 you've been listening to this on recording or on the live stream, check out 639 00:51:15,167 --> 00:51:20,561 Crowd Church. there's lots, lots of other talks on there that you can, you can 640 00:51:20,561 --> 00:51:25,955 access There's some of those testimonies that we were talking about in What's 641 00:51:25,955 --> 00:51:31,350 the Story. We have a small group that meets virtually during the week. Lots of 642 00:51:31,350 --> 00:51:36,744 ways to get in touch and get involved. We're going to move now to the live 643 00:51:36,744 --> 00:51:42,138 lounge this evening, so that link, it's a Google Meet, going in the chat. If you 644 00:51:42,138 --> 00:51:47,532 want to just dial in, say hi, wish each other happy Easter, come and chat, 645 00:51:47,532 --> 00:51:52,927 that'll be 5-10 minutes, just a bit of connection following this evening. And 646 00:51:52,927 --> 00:51:58,321 we're here next Sunday, every Sunday evening, 7 o'clock on the live stream. You 647 00:51:58,321 --> 00:52:03,715 are most welcome. So thank you again, Anna. Thank you, Dan, for a really rich 648 00:52:03,715 --> 00:52:09,110 conversation. And happy Easter all, and see you soon. God bless. Bye-bye.