Foreign Podcast is brought to you by Head Start Basketball.

We do a lot of 10 point games, which we call controlled scrimmages.

So you play to 10, you start on the offensive end, defense gets a stop, they fast break, come back and then we'll kill it and then obviously we assign points.

So you're trying to teach but also keep practice up tempo and fun Joe.

Wooten is the boys basketball head coach at Bishop O'Connell High School in Arlington, Virginia.

Joe has averaged 25 wins per year in his 26 years as the head coach and led O'Connell to five Virginia state independent titles, three WCAC regular season titles, four Alhambra Catholic Invitational titles and two WCAC tournament titles.

In the past 14 years, Joe has been selected as the Arlington County Coach of the Year four times, the WCAC Coach of the Year once and Virginia State Independent Coach of the year three times.

He's known for developing coaches and has had one college head coach, nine Division 1 assistant coaches and 10 head high school coaches work with him before advancing in their careers.

100 of Wooten's former players currently play or have played college athletics.

Ten of his former players have played professional basketball overseas and two are currently in the NBA.

Wooten was named by Silverwave Media as one of the Hundred Wooten was named by Silverwave Media as one of the 100 most influential people in men's college basketball in 2020-2021-2022-2023 and 2024.

Joe played and started at DeMatha High School for his father, Morgan Wooten, on a team that posted a record of 300 and finished the season ranked number five in the country.

Wooten serves as the Chairman of the McDonald's All American Basketball Game Selection Committee and Games.

His wife, Terri Lynn, who joins us for this episode, also assists with both the Coach Wootton Basketball camps and the McDonald's All American game.

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Be ready with pen and paper as you listen to this episode with Joe Wooten, boys basketball head coach at Bishop O'Connell High School in Arlington, Virginia.

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast.

It's Mike Cleansing here without my co host Jason Sunkel tonight, but I am pleased to be joined by Joe Wooten, head boys basketball coach at Bishop O'Connell High School in Arlington, Virginia.

Among many other things that we're going to get into here tonight with Joe.

Welcome to the Hoop Heads pod.

Joe, good to be with you.

Excited to have you on.

Looking forward to diving into all of the interesting things that you've been able to do throughout your basketball life.

Let's start by going back in time to when you were a kid.

For those who don't know, Joe's dad, Morgan Wooten, longtime coach at the Matha High School, first coach to be elected from as a high school coach to the Naismith Basketball hall of Fame.

Joe, tell us a little bit about your first experiences with the game.

What do you remember from being a kid and just being around your dad and being around the game?

You know, obviously I remember being around his teams, going to the games, going to practices.

You know, I think you pick up a lot as a, as a, as a coach's kid through osmosis.

You're surrounded all the time.

My wife actually Terry Lynn, so is her dad was a 30 year high school basketball coach.

So our kids are inundated with it.

So I think a lot of us through osmosis as a young kid, but remember being around, you know, and, and when I was a kid people would always come up to me and say, oh, your dad's a legend, you know, and obviously he's your dad.

So it didn't always ring true.

But obviously in hindsight, you know, it was very fortunate and we were great friends.

I probably did more things with him in more capacities than probably most sons do.

I was his assistant coach.

I played for him.

I was his opponent.

I coached against him.

I was business partner at camp.

Great friend.

He was our mentor.

So just so many great things.

Think back to that time and being around his teams.

Do you have a player or two that you remember that sort of gave you the special treatment that you looked up to or somebody that kind of gave you a little bit of special interest when you were younger?

I mean, obviously, all the.

All the guys were really good to me when I was younger.

You know, I.

When I was really young, I used to, like, carry the balls, you know, onto the court, and I was going to be, like a manager, and then, you know, obviously work my way up.

But, you know, Danny Ferry was a senior when I was probably in middle school, and, you know, and obviously Derek Wittenberg, Sidney Lowe were always at our house.

And, you know, Hawkeye Whitney, who played at NC State, you know, he.

He lived with us.

And, And.

And.

And I remember we went to my dad's uncle, who down in Southern Maryland, had a great family Thanksgiving.

And, you know, I'm the youngest of five, and we're all arguing on the way back from the great Thanksgiving.

And.

And Hawkeye had come from a, you know, you know, a tough, tough, tough part of town.

And.

And.

And he turned us and he unloaded us.

He said, I've never had a Thanksgiving like that.

And you guys kids, you know, you got.

You should be appreciative.

And my dad was so excited, and he's like, that was awesome, because he didn't say a word the rest of the way home because all guys said.

My dad had said it, maybe not as much.

So, you know, we looked up to the players.

We loved them, and they were part of the family.

When you were growing up, were you thinking about the game of basketball from a coaching perspective?

Did you always know that you wanted to coach?

Or were you somebody that you love to play, you love to be around the game?

And even though you sort of had this coaching lineage, maybe you were just focused on being a player.

Where was your mindset?

What were you thinking about?

Or were you even thinking about it at all in terms of as you got older, what maybe where you wanted to end up in terms of basketball?

You know, I honestly never consciously thought of it.

I'm sure maybe, you know, again, I was around it.

You know, my freshman coaches, you always called me Hewlett Packard, because, you know, what if.

You know, what if this guy comes down the left side.

How do we rotate on defense?

I would always ask all these questions, but I didn't obviously recognize that that was maybe, you know, kind of the coach in me.

I never really thought about consciously coaching.

And then I was a walk on the University of Maryland my freshman year in college.

And then afterwards, my high school teammate who ended up being following my dad at the math coached against for many years.

A good friend of mine, Mike Jones and I were working his day camp and he lost his Jamie coach who had gotten a head job.

The freshman coach was going to move up and so I said to him, I'm still in college and I was not going to be a walk on anymore because I got hurt and said, you know, you know, who's going to be the freshman assistant?

And he, and he said, and I went to Maryland.

So it was, it was close to math.

And he said, he said, you know, I don't know, I'd like to do it.

And I never thought about, about it before.

And then I coached the JV summer league team, kind of the B team, you know, the better sophomores from the varsity Riley Gore summer league at Suitland High School.

And I just absolutely loved, you know, the connection with the kids.

And that's why you coach.

And to me, you know, after that I fell in love with it, you know, decided to become a teacher and a coach and the rest is history.

And then I was 19, I'm 52.

Do the math.

You know, many years later, I'm still doing it.

Yeah, I think when you talk about those relationships.

Right.

I think that's when I think about coaching.

Obviously there's so much that goes into it.

But so many coaches on here, Joe, have talked about the fact that when they were younger, maybe they thought about just they were consumed by the basketball side of it and maybe they put aside that relationship piece and it wasn't until they were older that they started to realize that.

Yeah, I got to understand the basketball side of it.

I got to understand the X's and O's, I got to understand how to run a program.

But ultimately the way that I have my biggest impact is through those relationships.

And it definitely sounds like that's something that you were immediately connected to when you first, first took the job.

No, it was, it's dumb while you get into coaching, but then you get away from it too.

Like you start to focus on the, on, on those things.

So you have to constantly remind yourself, why am I coaching?

And you know, kind of referring to our camps, you know, My father would always say, you know, everybody wants to do these new, innovative things.

You know, I feel like there's.

There's always a new drill, you know, you know, you have 17 cones versus two cones.

You're a great coach in a drill, but.

Which.

I say that facetiously, but, you know, the idea is that obviously the fundamentals, like, you know, teach kids how to play, build relationships, build great, great teams.

It's not a complicated game.

And.

And so, you know, it's kind of like success in business.

It's not complicated, you know, you know, provide good service, follow through, do what you say you're going to do.

And so, you know, one thing we always say at our camps, which are.

Which are really big camps, and we say, we have two simple goals.

Excuse me, we have one simple goal.

We want them to love basketball more at the end of the week than they do at the beginning of the week.

And the way we make that happen is by teaching the game and having fun.

So, you know, so keep it simple and do the fundamentals.

That's perfect.

I always say I have three things, and I always kick this off with parents and with kids.

I'm always like, one, we hope you have fun.

Two, we hope we teach you something about the game of basketball.

And three, we hope that when you leave camp that it makes you want to play more basketball and not less.

And so it sounds like a similar theory of what you're talking about.

And I think when you do that, then you're doing right by the game, and ultimately that's what all of us are trying to do.

I always say that there's.

There's no way this.

This little silly podcast that I do here is a small way of being able to give back to a game that there's no way I can ever give back.

What.

What the game has.

Has given to me.

It's impossible.

When you look back on your experiences with your dad and in all those different capacities that you talked about, and then you think about yourself as a coach, as a person, who you are, are there one or two things that stand out to you that you can still think of?

Hey, this.

This part of me, this part of my coaching style, this part of who I am as a person came from my dad.

Are there one or two things that stand out for you in that area?

If I reflect, I don't think about him every day, but, you know, obviously, like I said, you know, I.

I learned a lot from him and gained a lot from him.

I would say this.

His ability to keep, keep things simple.

I think there was a genius in that.

You know, the old theory, keep it simple, stupid, you know, is that it's, it's not complicated.

And he would always say he had a few statements to make.

He'd say good teams do a few things well.

Good teams control the tempo of the game.

You know, you have to really control the tempo of the game.

And I would always kind of go back to what his favorite one was, was feel for the game, you know, and, and you mentioned Shane.

Shane before.

One of my good friends and member of McDonald's committee.

You know, I always called the feel of the game story, which he passed on to me.

Red Arbach, who's the great coach, the Celtics, was his good friend.

Never lived in Washington, never lived in Boston, always lived in a hotel, lived in Washington.

They started the day camp in 61 and DeMatha in 64 or 63 as the nucleus of the team that's going to be Power Memorial Luau Cinder.

And they played the Inner High All Stars.

The Inner Isle stars were the D.C.

public school teams.

And they, the math had gone undefeated in the, in the summer league.

And so they're playing the NIH All Stars who have eight future pros.

And so it was an outdoor court.

You know, it's like Rucker Park.

It's.

It's packed three rows deep.

There's no place for red RBCs there.

He's sitting on the bench.

Hot Rod Hunley from West Virginia sitting on the bench.

Bill Bradley, who was with the Knicks at the time, sit on the bench.

And Bud Milken, who's the coach of Maryland, so they lose in double overtime.

And my dad felt really good about it.

So Red came up to, to, to St.

John's the next day where him and Joe Gallagher did their day camp.

And you walked by and want a cigar and going to go play tennis and says, morgan, you know, how you doing?

Good morning.

We have things that he said.

He didn't mention the game.

I thought the game was great.

She says, red, what you think of the game?

He's, I'm a young coach.

Everybody always go fishing for a compliment.

And he said, what I think of the game, Morgan, I think it's a shame you cost your team the game.

Said, you know, rev, what do you mean?

He says, you lost the feel of the game.

You turn spectator.

You love the game.

So you start watching all the great players make great plays.

But you didn't see what was impacting the outcome of the game.

If you're Going to be a good coach, you have to have a feel for what's impacting the outcome of the game.

Don't be a fan, be a coach.

So that's probably one of the biggest lessons I learned from him.

My dad always called it the feel of the game that can be in business, that can be off the court, on the court.

We have to constantly adapting, constantly be communicating and constantly leading.

How long did it take you to develop that?

Obviously, it's something that I'm sure is ongoing.

Right?

You never, we never completely have a handle on the game.

We never, we're always learning, we are, we're always evolving as a coach.

But how long into your coaching career were you till you felt like you were able to do some of those, those things, see some of those things that maybe someone else couldn't see that would enable you to, to give your team or, or tell your team something that they needed in order to help them to be successful?

Well, I think you always look back and say, man, if I'd known last year to know this year, you know, we'd be better.

It's funny, you know, I'm also the athletic director at O'Connell and, and so I'm in charge of the, the hall of Fame committee and, and my 2014 that I was fortunate to coach just got elected and they're going to be inducted this fall.

So saying them all last night, you know, we were communicating via text and, and to hear their, their perspective was mind blowing in terms of, like, you think they, they wouldn't remember that.

They wouldn't, they wouldn't remember those small details, but boy, do they remember them so often.

Say, like, it's the camaraderie, it's the relationships, it's getting through a hard practice together.

Those are the things that are special.

And they weren't talking about who the leading scorer was.

They weren't talking about who the leading rebounder was.

It was, it was them as a team.

And so, and that's really special, you know, which is great, but obviously I thought I did things well then you adapt, you adjust.

And I think I do, you know, a few things better now, but maybe not, you know, then you got to say, did I, did I get away from what I did?

Well, so I think you're constantly evolving, constantly challenging yourself to look at what you're doing well, and constantly growing back.

To that first experience, right, as the JV coach back at the Matha, and then walk me through sort of the steps that get you to the opportunity at O'Connell.

I know when your dad stepped down, trying to figure out what was going to happen and how that was going to work and then just, just take me through that.

Just take me through the stages, you know.

So, so my, I was 19 going into my sophomore year at Maryland.

I was a freshman assistant coach.

So I started, I always say, I have a guy come and say, you know, I want to start on the varsity.

I started on the freshman assistant coach.

Like, you know, my dad started coaching in an orphanage.

So, you know, if you get, if you, if you.

I would say is good players present their value, good coaches present their values.

You don't have to tell what you do.

You show what you do, you know.

And so I think obviously that's a great opportunity to do it.

So I was a freshman coach one year, then the next year I was the JV assistant.

And then my, what would have been my fourth year of college, I graduated early and I went and was an assistant a restricted earnings coach, if that rings a bell.

The NCAA wisdom named a position restricted earnings, which was sued by the coaches and, and I got a check for $48,000 like 10 years later, but neither here nor there.

I was comp assistant for year.

Then I came back and was a freshman head coach in year four, three years, my dad's varsity assistant.

And then obviously he was ready to retire and obviously wanted me to, you know, kind of follow in his footsteps.

And so you.

That was kind of his plan.

And, and obviously at that time, you know, the principal really wanted to, you know, open up the search and really do, you know, kind of, you know, you know, kind of what, you know, kind of.

He was the one that want to name the coach, which is fine and obviously he had the right to do that.

So I decided to move on to O'Connell and, and I got the opportunity there and I've been there ever since.

I just, just finished my 26th year and you know, it's, it's been great.

You know, I'm proud of my dad, proud of the math that I played there.

But I'm an O'Connell man and really have loved being at O'Connell.

So, you know, so you obviously have different experiences in your life.

But all three of my children are either going or have gone to oconnell.

So I have a daughter that's a senior at Maryland, graduating broadcast journalism.

She's an O'Connell graduate girl that's graduating this year is going to go manage for Kim Mulkey at lsu and then son who will be on the varsity team, actually.

He's been on the JV the last two years.

So, you know, it's exciting.

Thought when you were at Furman that you were going to stay in college coaching or what was the thought process at that point, you know, you know.

Again, kind of my dad wanted me to come back and kind of, you know, you know, take a look at.

At the math of job and, you know, it's funny.

Like, the thing I liked about, you know, I feel fortunate for that year.

Joe Kentafi was my head coach and phenomenal guy.

What I loved about that is it kind of gave me a look into the college world, which.

Which was enjoyable.

It was a lot of fun, but it was different than high school.

You know, it was kind of.

I felt like you had a greater impact in the high school level because they were kind of boys coming into manhood.

You know, guy in college is more of a man already.

Not saying you can't have an impact, but I just really like that.

So.

So I've obviously really enjoyed that, but I also enjoy, like, you know, with the McDonald's, you know, selection, the evaluation and doing stuff.

So I think there's fun in every part of basketball.

And so, obviously, I've been fortunate to do a lot of different levels.

Get back to taking over the OConnell job.

What do you remember about your vision in terms of what you thought the program could be, how you wanted it to get there, and how close were you able to sort of follow your blueprint in actually carrying out what you wanted to do?

A lot of times, I think we as coaches have an idea of, okay, this is what I want it to look like.

And then I get to a place, and there are things there that either prevent or cause me to change paths in terms of how I want to get to where I need to go.

So what do you remember about that initial year or two, taking over the job and what you needed to do in order to get it going in the direction that you wanted it to.

Yeah, I'm.

So.

I was very fortunate.

You know, I probably got two good pieces of advice.

Surround yourself with good people, which is really important.

And.

And I think you do that, and then obviously, you want to make sure that you're taking care of the people that you're working with.

So, you know, so ironically, you know, I.

I took the job in.

In the spring, got married in July, and my.

My wife always jokes that, like, every date night was going out recruiting, you know, good players as we built the program.

So you Know, I was fortunate to have really good assistant coaches.

One's actually now the athletic director at firm, and he was my freshman head coach my first year at O'Connell, left after four or five years of great success, went with Jay Wright, and then obviously is great success there.

And, and, you know, still a good friend.

One of the assistants a couple years later, still good friend.

So it was really good.

You know, have, have kind of that family atmosphere.

And as I mentioned, my wife met several times in this call.

Like, you know, she obviously is very into basketball, but she was an athletic trainer and still is, but obviously, you know, she does so many other things now.

And so we always had that family atmosphere and she was always very supportive.

So I think we always wanted to build a family atmosphere.

I think we did that.

I think we, you know, and my JV coach at the time would say, if you build it, obviously the field of dreams, they will come.

So we just built the infrastructure, you know, the training, the camps, the clinics, the national schedule, the intense practices, the placement in college.

And so you just really build that and work to build them.

As young men, you always say you want to use basketball as a vehicle to develop them.

And, and so I think we, we did, you know, we, we did that to the best of our ability.

And, you know, I took Oconnell year before I got there.

We got, there was 6 and 20, and then we, we went 6, 1, 16 the first year and 17 the second year and then went 30 in a breakout, you know, third year.

And then it shows you kind of expectations get big.

I chance somebody come up to me and say, at school, you know, the fourth year, we won 25 games, they said, tough year.

I was like, again, I'm sorry, you're a victim of your own success.

So, you know, really proud and, you know, love the people at O'Connell, love the, love the job and, and love the impact on the kids from a basketball standpoint.

As you look back over the course of your career, obviously the game has evolved and changed tremendously over the 26 years that you've been coaching, just in terms of the way it's played, how much the three pointer has impacted the game, how much the pick and roll has become so much more prevalent than it was probably when you started.

I think back to my college experience playing college basketball from 88 to 92, and I could probably count the number of ball screens I defended in college on one hand.

And now you look at the way the game is played and just so different.

So when you think about how the game has changed over the time that you've been coaching.

What are some of the big things that you've had to adapt to or adjust to in terms of your philosophy offensively and defensively?

I don't know if there's again one or two things that you could maybe hit on that, that jump out, jump jump into your mind there.

So I think there's stuff obviously from an X and O standpoint that I think you definitely have to always keep in mind.

You know, the team that controls the tempo.

So how you control the tempo, whether that's on the backboards, whether that's your defensive pressure, whether that's your offensive pace, you always have to evaluate that.

Another thing I'm a big believer in is you have to get cheap buckets.

What I mean by that is, you know, good teams get cheap buckets, you know, an out of bounds play, you know, put backs, posting up the right guys at the right time.

Because as much as the game changes, you know, it stays the same.

You know, now guards post up smaller guards and so you don't have the traditional post player, but that's still a really important part of the game.

Defensively.

I think, you know, the idea of, you know, we probably would have, you know, helped off the shooters early on.

Now you're probably going to stunt and stay.

So there's, there's some differences there.

I think because you can carry the ball and they're not going to call it, it's just not part of that.

You can't pressure the ball the way you once did.

Obviously they, you know, when it was a little bit more stringent on the carry, I think that was a little different.

So those are some small adjustments.

I think by the biggest adjustment is nobody and I was laughing with, with a parent today and then I'm, you know, I'm talking to, about, you know, looking at the program is everybody says like let's play like Steph, like the Golden State warriors do.

You need Steph and Clay to play like the Golden State warriors do.

And so like, you know, every loves Luca and LeBron and, and you know, you know Tatum and, and Jalen Brown and, and the Celtics.

But you have those players that got to be pretty skilled.

So to me, I think obviously, you know, you need to make sure that you're giving roles to guys and helping them be excited in the role, accentuate the role and, and play to their strengths.

I think that's a really important part of the game.

I think communication is really big.

You know, I Think that, you know, it's, it's amazing.

Parents will listen to a guy in the stands that's never coached an ounce his life, but has run drills, never makes sub, whatever it is.

I won't listen to maybe a coach that doesn't tell them what they want to hear.

So I think that's a challenge in coaching now that, you know, trying to educate the parents.

I think you have to.

It goes back to surround yourself with good people.

You have to get people that buy into your program and that really understand the long term.

If it's.

And I say this and it's like in business, if it's all about the.

You as an individual, you're not.

The company's not going to be successful.

It's about your success along with the company's success.

We can, we can work with that.

So you won't be able to bring up the entire group, but also can, you know, to fulfill their role.

How much year to year, based on the type of personnel that you had, did you change your style of play offensively or defensively, based on just the talent that you had on hand, or were you running your system and getting your players caught up to that particular system and kind of going through, as they go through your program, they eventually get to the varsity level and now they're equipped to play the style of play that, that you want to play.

Obviously there are some tweaks you make every year, but just curious as to how, how you went year to year.

So, so.

And that's where I think we've adapted like so early on we really wouldn't take a transfer.

You know, we, everybody through the freshman team up, that was kind of the standard.

But now in high school basketball, kids are transferring all the time.

So you kind of have to adapt.

And so I think, you know, you're probably bringing your role guys through the program, but maybe that kind of difference maker maybe transfers in.

So I think you have to again, adapt there.

Number two, I think you have to adapt in terms of your ability to, you know, really value certain things.

IQ value, you know, and I always say if you're, if you want to find somebody that's a little bit better than Joe, you can always find somebody a little bit better than that guy.

But if we're going to bring out, we want to find something that's a significant impact.

The kids respect an impact player.

They respect that.

But we want to, you know, respect the roles that guys have.

That's number one.

Number two, I think it's really important that you adapt to, to be the strengths of your team.

But certain things are always true.

Gotta be really efficient, like people over dribble.

Now I think really good players are efficient.

And the thing that I'm finding, especially when you talk to the NBA, they're not looking for what the kids are being taught all these.

They're being drilled to dribble the ball 25 times.

They want guys that are one, two efficient, you know, get off it.

You know, at one point there was be a two second guy in the NBA.

Now it's be a 0.5 guy, which I'm not sure if that's possible.

But.

But the idea is efficiency, quickness, shoot a pass to drive it, you know, so.

And understanding that spacing.

So to me I think those are things you have to work on.

But you also have to have guys that are like I always say to guys that you have to want to be coached.

You have to be embrace it.

The equivalent I would give is this.

If your mom comes and says take out the trash and you're like, I guess so that you'll do it, but you're doing it begrudgingly.

If you're, if that's what you, you're going to be coached, you got to be eager to be coached.

And so to me, like mom, I want to take the trash out.

Now.

Maybe not a great example, but you see, my point is you got to be eager to be coached.

And if you do that, you'll be in good shape.

Take what you just said about the NBA in terms of what they want and what they're looking for.

It's interesting.

I had a conversation, this was a couple years ago now, and it was the first time I ever heard had somebody express this to me.

It was Mike Procopio, who at the time was with the Dallas Mavericks.

And what Mike said to me was that so often when you think about youth basketball, high school basketball, you think about sort of the, the, the trainer environment that we have now in modern basketball.

And to your point, a lot of times when you see guys working with trainers, they are working on these 25 dribble moves and there's 17 cones and all that kind of stuff and whatever.

And what Mike said, he's like, guys get to the NBA, or let's say they're in the G League and they're trying to make it to the NBA.

And what they don't necessarily understand is that for an NBA team, there's maybe one guy on the team who gets free reign to kind of do what he wants, right?

And everybody else is a role player.

Everybody else has to do something really, really well, and then they don't really want you to do anything else.

And it's kind of the reverse, right?

When we're teaching youth players or when we're coaching high school players, we're trying to develop all those skills.

And then it's almost like the higher level you get, the more specific that skill set has to be to fit into a role with your team.

And I think that's kind of what you're describing there.

And then the other thing that I think goes along with that, that you talked about is being able to communicate as a coach to your player what is your role, and then why is that role important to the team?

So maybe if you can address a little bit of how you talk to your players about, hey, this kid over here is our leading score.

This kid's going to get 15 or 20 shots in a game.

You may only get four shots, and they may all be put backs.

Because whatever your role is to defend and rebound or whatever, how do you have those conversations with your players to get that buy in so that players want to be coached and aren't just going through their role begrudgingly, as you.

Talked about, first of all, I love all the points you just made.

I think that's really, really important.

I think it also goes back to.

This is like, you know, so, for example, I'm not a doctor.

And so, for example, if my son is a doctor protege, like, he's gonna be a great doctor.

I don't now become an expert on how to become a doctor.

I need to go out and make sure I find the experts and become educated on those things.

And.

And obviously not just one person, but obviously look at all these different things.

So I think what ends up happening is, you know, I think it starts with the parents making sure that they.

That they understand that who they're talking to, what experience do they have, and really go to the source.

So, for example, and I'll talk to my parents a lot.

This is what NBA scouts are telling me at the McDonald's practice.

I literally had, you know, dinner the other day with, you know, the Wizards GM and.

And two scouts.

They're not talking about dribbling the ball to death.

They're not talking about, you know, you know, guy, you know, dunking on somebody.

They're talking about length.

They're talking about spacing metal.

Things we just talked about.

So to me, you know, I think that's one of the big Things that I always encourage parents to do is, you know, if your child's interested in something, support them.

But make sure that you're, you're talking to the right people, that you're not just talking to people that are telling you what you want to hear.

I think that's number one.

Number two is this.

I think it's also important to say to yourself is be their parent.

I think what happens is a lot of times a really good player, you know, the player becomes the most important thing.

No, they need to be treated like a young man and raised and challenged and get better.

What you want your own son to do, if you do that, the basketball will take care of itself.

One thing the NBA, the spurs did is a study that basically showed that the late bloomers are the best long term pros because they're not coddled, they're, they're, they're, they maybe had to work and develop and, and you know, have a little grit to do it, maybe had a resiliency to do it.

So I think that's really important.

But kind of now jumping back and I kind of did a long term answer to your question, but now one thing I think you do that is so you need to educate the parents on that so that they're getting the right information to the kids and understanding that they don't have to score 25 points to, to play, you know, to get a scholarship.

I really don't believe they do.

I think they have to ability, have to have the ability to show they can do a few things.

Well, you know, for example, if you can really shoot the basketball, that's a game changer.

You know, if you can really handle the basketball and understand how to, how to distribute, that can change, change the game.

There's certain things you can't control like the height, the length.

I think one thing that I'm seeing at the high school level, you have to have the physical size because with the portal now they're just not taking high school guys.

They're skinny even if they're a good player unless they're a top 25, top 50 player.

So to me those are things that obviously, you know, we're, you know, we're trying to always emphasize but I think you need to get buy in.

That's why I started with that from the family to say like this is what we're trying to do.

So that, and, and you know, you know I actually talked to him this morning but Mellow Trimble's in Russia now playing, played for me, played was a McDonald's All American, played at Maryland.

And, you know, he had 30 more times than I can count in an individual game.

And his mom was always like, keep working, keep getting better.

And he had 11 turnovers in one game as a sophomore.

And, you know, so keep your head up.

I sent him a text and said, you keep your head up.

His mom said, thank you so much that he needed that.

But don't, you know, if you want players that are.

You see steady growth with.

I'll show you a steady parent.

I'll show you an unemotional parent that is long term, not short term.

It's a hundred percent.

Right?

And I think that anybody who's gone through it as a parent, that you try to figure out what that looks like from your perspective as a parent.

And so I have three kids.

I have a daughter that stopped playing basketball when she was in ninth grade.

I have a son who's playing Division 3 basketball at Ohio Wesleyan as a freshman this year.

And then I have another daughter who is a high school freshman who played on the varsity this year.

And even though, Joe, like, I know the pitfalls of trying to push my kids and have conversations and all those kinds of things, there's still times where I think to myself, man, I'm pretty involved in this situation.

I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of what it takes to be a good sports parent and to be able to do some of the things that you just described.

Right.

And yet I still sometimes find it hard not to maybe push too much or not to say this thing or that thing.

And I know, I mean, and I'm as educated as anybody about it.

And so I can only imagine how challenging that is for a parent who maybe doesn't have the background in athletics that I have or that I'm fortunate enough to have and then be able to be fortunate enough to have those conversations with my kids.

I know it helped my son going into his freshman year, this year of going in with expectations of, hey, look, man, it's like, this isn't going to be easy.

Like, if you think you're going to walk in the door and be able to play, you know, you got.

You got a whole nother thing coming.

You got to work.

And there, there's a process to this whole thing, and there's roles and all this stuff.

And so I think that helped him to be in the right frame of mind as he went into that season.

But I know, and you know just as well that there are tons and tons of parents out There saying, oh, man, you should be get.

You should be getting 20 shots a game.

And you know, this coach doesn't know what he's talking about me.

You.

You know well, that there are lots of those parents out there too, unfortunately.

Right, right.

And to me, they're doing.

I mean, do you go to your son's or your daughter's business and say your boss doesn't know he's talking about, like you're not comparing them to life.

And don't get me wrong, it doesn't mean you have to agree with every coach.

It doesn't mean a player has to stay with the coach forever.

But I think obviously we learn from every situation.

Some coaches aren't as good a coach.

Maybe, maybe they do things you don't like, but you learn from everything.

But teach them that.

I'm a big believer.

Control what you control.

Control your attitude, control your effort, your energy, you know, your attitude, your resiliency, because that's a lot more important than what a coach is doing.

Absolutely.

All right, tell me a little bit about your practices.

How do you design them?

What does it look like?

Do you have a similar flow to the practice every day where you go offense first, defense in the middle, player development?

How do you just.

How do you organize a practice session?

So, so, you know, and I, I did take this from my daddy.

He would have a three boxes at the top of his.

Of his practice plan.

Offense, defense, and other.

And so obviously you're focused on the defensively, offense.

Then obviously other might be out of bounds, plays, time and score, fast break offense, fast break defense, kind of specials, if that makes sense, shooting things like that.

So we'll add those in.

So we always kind of.

I always try to start with an emphasis of the day, and I'm a big believer in that.

I like to start with shooting because, you know, everyone loves that feeling when they shoot the basketball and it goes through the net.

I mean, it's just a great feeling.

It didn't happen for me very often, but when it did, I felt good.

So the idea is that, you know, you had a bad day with, you know, a bad day with your teacher, whatever, get in the gym and shoot.

Feels good.

So I think it's a great way to warm up.

It's a great way to get loose.

It's also adds up.

You know, you get 10, 15 minutes of shooting in before every practice.

I think it, it, it, it, it reaps rewards down the road.

That's number one.

So we always try to do that.

And then Obviously we go right, right into what we call our toughness drills.

So you know, so that would be, you know, Jamie Dixon, he's a good friend of mine who's a tcu.

So we got tcu, some rebounding drills, charge drills, box out drills, you know, physicality.

Because I really believe this, you have to teach kids to be physical.

Even if they're a big kid, if they're a small kid, you can teach them how to be physical.

So I think the consistency of that is really important.

So we're going to go, we're going to go.

So I kind of do for what we do shooting, we then stretch because I think obviously it's important.

Once you're a little loose, we have a thought of the day.

Then we go into our toughness drills.

From that point, we usually go to deep to defense.

Start with transition defense, you know, trying to obviously some people call it conversion, we call it changing ends.

So obviously to change ends and pack the paint, we'll do that with several different drills and then we'll get into all our defense and we basically build from like 1 on 1 to 2 on 2, 3 on 3, 4 and 4, 5 on 5, then put, you know, doing different, you know, different things like shell, man down shell.

We call it fogler, which is cutting shell.

We'll do, you know, let yourself get beat to work on the rotations and then obviously close out after that.

So we're doing all kind those things, switch up our defenses and then, excuse me.

And then, then we moved our, our transition.

So then we go our fast break, our three on two, two on one, you know, you know, you know, convert, you know, two on one, three on two, four on three, five on four, five on five, all those different things.

And then obviously we're going to shoot some free throws kind of the middle of practice and then we're going to break down our offense.

Same way we're going to go, we call post perimeter.

So and, and you know, that's changed a little.

It was, it's probably more, you know, guards, you know, hybrids now, you know, you know, people that we'll actually sometimes just mix our team up half and half and we might work on guards posting up and we might work on bigs, you know, DHO and roll into the basket.

So doing some, some skill work in there for 15, 20 minutes and then we get into kind of, you know, you know, whether it's really working our fast break as we did, maybe playing some fast break games, maybe working on out of bounds plays, maybe working Our half court offense, man, half court offense zone and, and we do a lot of 10 point games which we call controlled scrimmages.

So you play the 10 and, and they're pretty quick games, you know, but basically they go, they go up, you start on the offensive end, they go, you know, defense gets a stop, they fast break, come back and then we'll kill it.

And then obviously, you know, we assign points.

So just kind of trying to teach but also keep practice up tempo and, and fun.

And then obviously we always end with time and score and, and I think that's a really important thing to get the kids to think goes back to IQ and, and making sure your kids, you know, I know one of my bad, my father's big things was you can't draw a play up at the end of, at the end of a game.

Expect a kid that's never been through it for them to execute, it's just not going to happen.

So making sure that you've gone through those, you can draw it up again to remind them, but at least they've gone through it.

The roles amongst your staff during practice in terms of what each one of your staff members is focusing on what they're doing, just how do you, how do you utilize your staff during a practice?

So, so one of the big things I always say I'm the lead voice.

So obviously we're all coaches, but I take that lead voice and I'm trying to get the overall feel and the leadership.

I want one of my, one of my coaches working on, on post play.

So, and that again could be different for each team that we have.

So they're going to start off on the baseline every time because that's where they be closest to the post players.

And I have a guard, guard coach that's going to obviously be the trail and then obviously from there, you know, we're, we're going to build from there, you know, in terms of obviously they're actively coaching.

So like for example, I might come in and make a point, Hey, I thought we did a great job of driving, making a playoff too, finding it, you know, and then attacking the closeout.

And then what I love for them to do is go up and get, get in a guy's ear, hey, you know, I saw that you, you sealed really well there.

But you could have, you know, could have stepped out and you know, swung around for a high low, you know, just getting a guy's ears individually.

I think sometimes when I was a young coach, my very first year being the freshman Coach at the math or was the head coach.

I went to my dad and said, you know, I two great assistants, but they just talk every time I stop the, you know, and not nothing bad, but we're all talking, it's empty.

And he said, you know, our rule is, you know, when the whistleblowers head coach talks first and either talk to individuals after I'm done or say, hey, coach, I get some of that.

I think it's important they're not talking at the same time that we're talking, and I shouldn't talk when they're talking.

So I think it's an important, you know, coach your coaches, get them to do that.

Also, I want them to, you know, not, you know, I think they need to hustle.

So, for example, if, if it's, if we're doing a game, they need to referee and get up and down the court.

You know, they need to make sure that they're, they're showing, giving their best physical effort as well as their best mental effort.

Also don't want coaches to stand next to each other.

They end up talking.

I don't need them to talk.

And we may come together when they're shooting free throws and talk about something before practice, after practice, in the middle, but when we're actively practicing, we're coaching.

It's a great point.

I mean, I know I, I found myself at times, right in a practice, you stand next to somebody, all of a sudden action's going on and you're having a conversation and things are, things are getting away from you.

So I can certainly understand where that's a, a good coaching point.

Right.

To be able to make is a simple one.

Right?

Simple.

Simple to be able to convey that to your coaching staff.

And then again, it alleviates an issue that isn't intentional but certainly can take away from the value that you're getting out of a particular practice.

Do you guys film your practices?

You know, my, my film guys, we have, we have the huddle, you know, auto camera.

I don't look at it.

I mean, like to me, like I'm going to break down our games.

I'm going to do those different things.

You know, I'm not going to, you know, practice, to me is, is the time we're teaching, we're getting better and then obviously from there we're going to, you know, the games are kind of, you know, or a test, if that makes sense.

Are you taking notes like on your practice plan in terms of thinking about, hey, I noticed this during practice and we got to make sure we address this in the next one.

How are you reflecting on what you did during a practice session to be able to prepare for the next one?

So one of the things that I don't, I don't take notes, but after, I always leave the practice on my desk.

So the next day I'll reflect on it the next day.

I think, I think one thing that, you know, I probably do better now is, you know, obviously fired up, excited, emotion, passionate about the game, emotion, but un uncontrolled emotion is not good.

So I think we, you know, basketball and, and I know the guy that got my dad started coaching is something I've always learned.

Joe Gallagher, he would say, sports bring out the best in us, but they also bring out the worst in us.

And so we have to obviously, you know, be measured in our response.

So, you know, we need great effort, we need coachability, we need togetherness.

But, you know, if you, if you make a shot of the buzzer, did everything go right and we missed that shot?

Did everything go wrong?

Some of us were too emotional.

So I think obviously, you know, taking a day to think about it is, can be really effective.

Great point there.

I, I think that the emotional side of it and that example of the buzzer beater is one that I've often reflected on in my coaching career, both when I've been the head coach of one of my kids travel or AAU teams.

You think about that.

And then I know that I spent a long time as a varsity assistant coach and certainly there were times where there were games where we played well and we lost, and then there were other games where we played poorly and we won because of the opponent.

And you have to really find yourself, especially as a young coach.

I don't think I understood that point that you just made that we can win and play poorly versus we can lose and play well.

And I think as a young coach, I didn't necessarily always understand that.

And that's something that I learned over the course of the first couple years of my coaching career was just being able to understand and have conversations with my head coach of like, hey, this game, yeah, we won, but man, there's a ton of things that we didn't do well that we got to work on.

I think sometimes we get caught up, right?

That, that scoreboard, that scoreboard carries a lot of weight and power for us as coaches.

And sometimes it takes a little bit of time to get a feel.

Going back to that feel of the game that you talked about, right?

You have a Feel for, hey, what did our team look like?

Are we, are we doing the things that we're teaching that we're trying to accomplish?

And sometimes the scoreboard doesn't tell that whole story.

Absolutely.

And to kind of piggyback on that, like, I think one thing that I've adjusted is letting the kids know I believe in them while I'm challenging them.

And so, because I think sometimes I assume, well, they know that I believe them because that's why I'm coaching them.

But you need to tell them that.

So like I, I probably have done that more where I, I communicate.

This is why I'm getting on you.

I think your assistant's also doing a good job of that, of saying, hey, you know, he's getting on you, but understand why he's getting on you.

Felt like since the beginning of your career that you've had to maybe explain the why a little bit more to kids.

Are kids looking more for the why than they did when you first started.

Or, or no, I don't think kids are different.

I think, I think parents are different.

Like, for example, like Jason Clark, who played for me, played at Georgetown, great player, just finished a 13 year career around the world.

And he came back and saw me and he said, you know, he said, you know, after three weeks I went home and told my mom, this is too tough, like, I can't do this.

And she said, you're staying right where you are.

We worked hard to get here and parents maybe don't do that as much now.

So, so I think, you know, it's interesting.

Everybody talks about development, but they really don't.

The development only is going good.

Every developmental situation, whether, you know, like my George graduated from college, I just, I just talk about this and she was telling me all that.

I'm really encouraging her to be active.

She wants to get into broadcast journalism.

And it's, it's not, it's not a field where there's a job every minute, but it's networking, networking, networking.

I think she's doing all the right things.

So the point is there's going to be setbacks.

Like, accept that that's part of, it's kind of like in recruiting.

People are going to tell you now, but you have to be able to respond.

So I think development doesn't always come in a positive way.

Development comes sometimes when you get knocked down, you got to get back up.

There's no doubt about that.

And I think that it goes back to right, as you said, parenting.

And I think about my experience Both as a kid and with my parents, and then me trying to do the same thing as a parent is giving your kid an opportunity to, you know, things don't always go perfectly.

And how do you react as the parent?

Do you blame somebody else, or do you look your kid in the eye and say, well, yeah, maybe this isn't fair, or maybe it's not the way that you want it to be, but what can you do to change it?

Right.

It goes back to what you said about controlling what you can control.

And if you share that message, even though something may not be the way that you want it to be, there's still a lesson to be learned that I think can make you better in the long run when something doesn't always go your way.

Because let's face it, in life, things don't go your way in every particular situation.

And so that's a lesson that if we can use sports to teach that rather than real life to teach it, we're that much better off in terms of producing better citizens for.

For our world.

Without question.

Absolutely.

Let's jump over to the camp side of it.

Give people who maybe don't understand the history of the Wooten basketball camp.

I know you mentioned that started in 61, so just kind of take us through the beginnings of it, what your first memories are from camp and then kind of how you took it over and where it stands today.

And then we can dive into some of the particulars.

Yeah, so.

So 1961, my dad and Joe Gallagher, his mentor, got, you know, started day camp.

And people said kids won't play basketball in the summer, which obviously is not true, but that was their opinion.

There's the oldest basketball camp in the country, and I think there for the world.

And it started as a day camp with 20 kids each week, and it, it, you know, ballooned.

We have about, you know, 4,000 kids come through our camp each summer.

Overnight camp, day camp, woot, 150, which obviously we do in the fall.

So, you know, and obviously, as we mentioned before, it's, it's.

It's life experience.

It's obviously getting kids better.

And it's amazing.

Like, you know, we always say pay it forward.

You know, as a coach, you get to impact people's lives in a positive way.

And we've had over 275,000 kids come through our camp over the last 50 some years.

And the amazing thing is, is like the impact the coaches have and then the impact those guys pay.

Pay it forward to someone else.

So again, giving back to the good of the game.

Giving back to our, our greatest resource in America, which is our young people pour into them and, and we'll be in good shape.

What's been the biggest challenge in running a successful camp?

When you think about what you have to do in order to make that camp successful, what are some challenges that you have in front of you that you've got to overcome?

So I think obviously, you know, the, the overnight camp, I mean it is literally, you know, like Terry Lynn and I, you know, Terry particularly does all the administration year round.

So it's a year round project, advertising and, and doing clinics to promote it and brochures and all those good things and the website.

But then I think obviously running, I mean it's all encompassing.

It's like, you know, it's, it's 6:00am till 2 in the morning, putting kids to bed, you know, checking on dorm duty, you know, because obviously you're entrusted with their, with people's, you know, greatest resource or young people.

So I think you owe them that best ever.

But it's a tiring experience, but it's a rewarding experience.

So.

And you know, so we grinded all summer with overnight camps and day camps.

And you know, to me, I was actually saying to my son the other day on the ride home in the car, I said, you know, embrace it.

Life is a grind.

Life is hard work.

And usually it's not the smartest guy that always wins the race, it's the guy that's willing to stick in there and work the hardest.

So, you know, take pride in making it a great experience for each of the kids.

And I always say camps are my favorite time of the year because it's teaching kids basketball, which is why you get into this and there's no parents.

So, you know, you know, it's just, it's having fun.

Like it's really kids loving the game, competing, enjoying the game.

And it's not about winning.

We compete to win, but it's about having fun and not about, you know, who shoots the most and all that good stuff.

How do you put together the camp staff?

I'm guessing at this point people are coming to you more than you're going to, reaching out to people.

But just tell me about how you put that together.

So, so I think we're a little bit different the way we do our camp, like where people do stations, we don't do that as much.

We do what we call fundamentals.

So like I'll teach the fundamental.

And so I think, you know, not that it's the.

It's the only way, but it's our way of teaching in a very succinct, direct way.

So coaches like to come to learn how to teach the game from a fundamental perspective.

Not a play perspective, but a fundamental skill perspective.

So we do things like finishing school and ball screen basketball and moving without the basketball and, you know, footwork and, you know, all those different things.

So we'll break it down and they get to see how we teach again.

Then they do it with their.

With their players.

So it's kind of like teach it, show it, do it.

And so obviously we do a good job.

That's.

We're always looking for good people, you know, and obviously we have the veterans and the guys that have been there, and the girls have been there for years.

But then you always want new kind of new blood to kind of.

To invigorate.

And then we.

One of the unique things we have is like, we have leagues at our camp.

So basically that's why I can say it.

We have like five or six camps that operate within a camp.

So I teach them all, but they might go play games together.

And so there's a commissioner who's kind of the leader of that group who doesn't have a team.

And they kind of lead the coaches and make sure the coaches have what they need, support what they need, you know, you know, orient.

Orient orientation for a new guy that obviously is.

Join us for the first time.

Have you found that over time?

Because if you go back to.

So like we talked about, my camps have been around for 30 some odd years.

And when I first started back in the early 90s, there was still the camp mentality, right.

Kids had grown up going to basketball camp.

When I was a kid, I went to camp at Ohio State, I went to camp at NC State, I went to camp at Denison University.

And those were just things that kids of my generation, your generation, we kind of grew up with the sort of the traditional.

Right.

The traditional basketball camp.

And then as time has gone on, we have so much more now.

AAU basketball and kids playing games.

And the camp circuit has changed.

It's just.

There's just.

It's just not as prevalent as it used to be.

And I'm curious to.

How did you guys navigate that?

Obviously you continue to do the same thing, but maybe from a marketing or advertising standpoint, to be able to convey the value in what you guys are doing, because so many people just want to be on an AAU team or a travel team and Play games.

And the traditional camp has been.

There just isn't as many of them out there.

So you can't compare yourself to, hey, there's 50 other camps.

So how did you guys handle that piece of it?

I think that's obviously really true.

But again, it goes back to fundamentals.

It goes back to doing things the right way.

You know, I always say this.

You know, for a week of camp, you get 13 games.

You play in half of every game.

We do one on one, two on two, three on three every day to work on IQ.

There's 6am Rising grind, 9pm Gym rat stations.

There's stations once a day.

There's competitions, there's contests, there's speakers.

So it's all basketball all day.

And I think one of the big things that you need to challenge yourself is this is the same thing, the same steady dose day after day after day gets monotonous.

I think camp's a great life experience.

It's a way for them to get away and be on their own.

And so I think that's.

We really sell that and I really believe in that.

Like, you know, that obviously it's a life experience and that you want to.

You want to, you know, obviously, you know, get.

Get involved in terms of teaching them how to be, you know, good people that can grow into becoming, you know, healthy adult.

Makes a lot of sense.

And it's interesting, just when you think about the experience, that basketball camp, what it's meant to me, not only just again, haven't run a camp for as long as I have, but then thinking back to my own experiences as a player and going to camp and the memories that I have of the guys that I went with and.

And the coaches that I met there, that maybe I knew him when I was 12 and then now I still know them when I'm, you know, 55.

And so it's really interesting just to be able to have those experiences.

And I think that's something where, especially in a case of, like, what you guys do, where it's year after year, right, guys, as you said, you got a veteran staff of guys who come back and they've been working it together and now they're.

They're friends as a result of the camp, and they want to come back and.

And continue to give back and to pour into the game.

And then you have the kids who have been coming for years, then eventually you have the kids who went to camp, and then now they become parents, and now their kids are coming, and there's just this Whole generational thing that it's really interesting.

I'm sure you experienced this, but I'll be walking down the street and my hometown, and I'll have some guy who's, whatever, 35 come up to me and be like, hey, I remember when I came to camp, one of the things that I always did was I would give away basketball cards as prizes.

And then at the end of camp, we'd always sell the cards.

Back in the day, when cards were cheap, I could sell them two cards for.

I'd sell them two cards for a quarter.

And so I'd have kids that are whatever.

Now they're adults.

But they'll come up to me like, man, do you still do that?

Do you still do the cards?

This is like, whatever, 25 years later, when this kid came to basketball camp.

It's funny what kids, what they remember and what has an impact on them.

And I think, again, when you have that sort of generational feel, that's one of the things that I love about coaching and camps and all that stuff in general is just the amount of people that, again, do remember something that you said or did with them that still is impacting them 20, 30 years after the fact.

That's one of the most powerful things about the game of basketball, for sure.

And to kind of piggyback on that, you know, one of the things that I found is that, like, now we'll go out in the area, like, so we were actually in the airport the other day, and my wife and I were there, and we were.

We were going on a spring break trip, and the kids wearing a Coach Wooten's basketball camp T shirt.

I said to him, I said, I like your shirt.

And he didn't realize it was me.

And then we're in the security line, he comes races.

I didn't know it was you.

So, you know, it was pretty cool.

And, you know, obviously that's a lot of fun.

And like, you know, kind of like what I said about the O'Connell basketball program, like, it's a family.

It's a family affair.

Like, you know, obviously, my wife runs the administration.

We actually met at the camp.

She was an athletic trainer in college.

So, you know, those are.

Those are things that, you know, we try to make it a family atmosphere.

And honestly, like, the commissioners are like family to me.

We've worked together for 25 years.

And so, you know, I think that people get that sense of that.

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Another big thing that you guys are involved in is the McDonald's game.

So let's bring your wife in and talk a little bit about the, your involvement, how you guys have taken over that process, what it's all about.

Go back.

Everybody knows what the McDonald's All American game is, but they may not know the history behind it.

They may not know the connection that your family has to it.

They may not know exactly what are the behind the scenes things that need to happen in order for that game and that process to take place.

So just, just maybe walk us through the details of the McDonald's All American game, your family's history and involvement in it.

And let's bring in your wife, Terry Lynn at this point to contribute to the conversation.

Terry, how you doing today?

Good.

And you?

Excellent.

Thank you for, thank you for jumping on and being, being a part of it.

So I'll let, I'll let you guys take it from here.

You go in whatever direction you want to take it, educate us a little bit more about just what the game is all about and what it means to you guys.

Right?

So my father started with John Wooden and Bob Gagan many years ago.

In 1977, they named the first team and in 78, the first game was played.

And we're on year 48, just completed.

And you know, our family's been honored to be, you know, the, the chairman of the selection committee, my father, myself, since the inception of the game.

So we've picked every McDonald's team and all the 48 boys years in the 23 girls years.

And so then Terry Lynn obviously is now directs, she's the director of the nomination selection process.

So she really leads the committee and has done a phenomenal job.

As I mentioned before earlier, her dad was a 31 year high school coach and so she grew up in the game.

She's as an athletic trainer.

So again she's used to being in the gym.

And so, you know, and I always say this like kind of you, you brought from camp right to the McDonald's game.

To me that's like what I said.

Everybody's like, I love teaching basketball to a 7 year old and I love working with McDonald's all American.

Like it's all basketball.

Like, you know, obviously they're all, you know.

And Chandelyn always says to everyone that works the games is like they're kids, like they're big kids.

They're, they're, they're talented kids, but they're kids.

So treat them with respect.

You treat any 18 year old and you'll get respect back from their good kids.

So I think obviously, you know, one thing we've always prided ourselves in is getting the right players.

Because really that's what it's about, you know, that's, that's the legacy of the game is getting the right players.

And you know, and it's, and it's for charity.

So I think that's been really special.

So, you know, Charlie maybe can comment on, on like the, the democratic part of it, which I think is really nice.

Yeah, so we're very fortunate.

We have a great group of committee members.

On the female side we have 21 committee.

Then on the male side we have 20, 23.

So it's a great camaraderie of individuals that are made up by high school coaches, tournament directors, national media, and then national evaluators and scouts for talent.

And we are the only high school all star event that is done democratically, meaning that it doesn't matter what shoe you wear, what AAU team we play for, what high school you play for or what college you're going to.

It's simply a vote process.

And it's great because we are able to pick players based on their credentials, not everything that surrounds them or the ancillary items that are in their lives.

So it's, it's just a great place to be and it's, it's a great event to, to represent.

As Joe said, it's for charity.

It's the only event that's for charity.

So, you know, every dollar that is made outside of paying your bills for the event is gone to the Ronald McDonald House charity.

So again, we're, we're blessed to be a part of this.

It's a legacy that we take very seriously.

And, and the kids are wonderful.

Like, they're just great kids all around.

And to kind of jump back into that as well.

I think one of the things that always we're really proud of is that if you, if you're a McDonald's American, you have a 70 over 70% chance of having a significant NBA career.

The next closest indicator is below 20%.

That's more than three years in the NBA.

So obviously more than 70% make the NBA.

But, you know, it's such high indicator.

And you know, the McDonald's practices are the number one event pre draft to evaluate the players because it's where the 24 best players are.

And, and one thing I think she referenced, the Democratic committee is really important is that, you know, that obviously we, we make sure that, you know, that we pick the right players.

So sometimes the rankings don't always match the McDonald's.

And one of the reasons for that is, is because rankings are done by one person.

And obviously, you know, some of the rankers are on our committee.

But I think the beauty of the McDonald's American, you have to have your.

You have to have the body of work by the majority of the committee, which I think, again, you know, takes out that, that individual bias and really puts you in a position to be, you know, you know, kind of be.

Be stabbed by everybody on the committee.

Each individual on the committee sort of bring the initial list of, hey, here's five players that I'm familiar with that I think are potential nominees for the team or how does the initial list come to be?

Yeah, so, you know, we have a nomination period that starts on September 1st and runs through December 1st.

In order to be nominated, you have to be submitted by your head high school varsity coach, your athletic director, or your principal from your high school.

From there, we create a nominee list, and then we go through an eligibility verification process within that nominee list to make sure that you meet all the criteria of being selected to the McDonald's All American Games.

And then around December 15, we certify that nominee list.

And then on December 16, we start with the selection process.

That process is a balloting system.

From there we get our top 50.

I'm sorry, that's not correct.

We do our top 100 plus list, which is collectively voted on by our committee.

Sometimes it's 105, sometimes it's 125.

It just depends on where we are that year and who of the nominees, who we'd like to put on that list.

Then we go into our first round of voting, and that is our top 50.

So we pick them by position.

So it's, you know, the top 10 kids selected by the committee by position.

Then we go to our top 40, then our top 30.

And then we kind of come down to picking our final 24 from that 30 list.

And then, you know, there's going to be discussions after we get there, because there's always going to be on that final list 26 to 27 kids, maybe 28, the tie, because they're tiebreakers.

So, you know, when we go through our.

Our process, if we end up with 54 because of ties, those 54 move forward until we can collectively agree on 24 candidates as the final team for both girls and boys.

Once you have those teams in place and you're preparing for the event itself, give me an idea of some of the things that go along with being selected to the team in terms of what the players experience.

So, you know, once we get the 24 candidates for boys and girls, Joe and I sit down and decide on the team breakdown.

East, west.

And a lot of it is regional.

So where they're from, where their high school's from, not necessarily where they're from, but from state.

Cause some kids, you know, are boarding schools, are away.

But where they are from, from a high school standpoint, sometimes we might have two kids that are from the same high school, but we split them because one's going to Duke, one's going to Carolina.

That's a matchup we want to see.

We also talk a little bit to ESPN on the girls on the boys side to find out what matchups that would be great for tv.

You know, what we're looking at to get out of the game and to make the two teams balance.

So you'll see sometimes, every once in a while, you have a kid from Texas on the east, or you might have a kid from Texas on the west, or vice versa.

We'll have a kid from Oregon.

Just depends on how it breaks down from the 24 that are there.

Right.

And to kind of jump in there as well, like the two best point guards in the country from the East Coast.

We're going to put a little two different teams.

So it's a good.

Right.

Yeah.

And then when the kids, you know, when they come to McDonald's.

We generally fly them in on Friday, so they arrive on Friday.

The only time a player would not arrive on Friday is if they're playing in a championship game.

So their high school is in the state finals, region finals, championship, whatever it is, they might come in as soon as they either end the tournament or their team lose.

So like last year, we had kids in the throne.

Some of them played on Friday.

Unfortunately, their teams lost.

They came in literally Friday night.

Other kids didn't come in till, you know, Saturday or Sunday.

So, you know, we kind of work with their high school so that they don't miss out on their state championships Friday.

We do a lot of logistical stuff, going through photos, getting their headshots done.

We do a lot of their media stuff, just kind of just getting them logistically handing out uniforms, getting their room assignments.

We do a team get together this year.

We took them to the, to the Nets.

They went to a game over in Brooklyn to the game.

And so they had a nice kind of team bonding, getting to know each other.

90% of them know each other.

But there's always going to be an outlier that might not, but they had a great time over there.

And we just kind of get.

Get to know them.

That's the kids portion.

The coaches portion is Joe and I have a staff meeting with the coaches, and then we have a breakout meeting with everybody.

So we talk about the expectations of what's going to happen, media training.

Joe talks about the reset button, and I'll let him take that from there.

Yes.

So obviously, like, one of the big things is we mentioned about is obviously the 70% indicator in the draft room.

The number one question is, was he.

And now with the W, is she a McDonald's all American?

I think so.

One of the things we talked talk to them about is that you've made it, but now it starts all over.

Now you're being evaluated by the professionals.

And so obviously, one thing we want to do is we want to put them in the best possible position.

So Terryland and I do, I think, a really good job of getting a career coach who's had a great high school career but maybe doesn't know the kids.

And one that we've had maybe a game or two in the past, maybe 15, 20 years ago where they kind of didn't coach.

We get them to coach because then that puts them in the best position.

We want the practice to be competitive.

We lay out how the practice should be so that it's not just scrimmaging.

It's, it's seeing them in two on two, three on three.

Offensive defensive conversion drills, you know, no dribble drills.

Two dribble drills, you know, so again, putting them in positive situations because the first obviously day is logistics.

The next day is practice, is the second part of the day.

But the most impactful part of the day is the Ronald McDonald House visit.

And one thing we do is that we do a great job, I think, of getting feedback.

And I was talking to co opiete this year while practice was going on.

He's going to Arizona, great player, but he had a wrist injury so he couldn't play.

And so what's been the best part of the week?

He said McDonald's house visit, without a doubt.

Because they're giving back to those that are less fortunate and it really impacts them because they're kids and, and, and they, they, they are impacted by, you know, what their basketball talents are able to help everybody else with.

So I think that's really good.

Moving to the practices and then, you know, and it's a lot like camp, like I mentioned, like camps all day, you know, all day, every day.

So, you know, we're, we're constantly on the buses, off the buses, but it's, it's great relationships and you know, and then obviously.

Yeah.

So like day two, as Joe said, is practices and the Ronald McDonald House experience.

Day three is the scrimmage.

So we have practice in the morning and then two scrimmages, one for the boys, one for the girls.

And then we head over to whatever venue that we're hosting the ring ceremony at and we have the player celebration and ring ceremony where we announce the Morgan Wooten national player of the year and have a great a time kind of just partying with the kids, celebrating the kids, they.

And just to kind of jump in the rock.

The McDonald's American ring is kind of the graduation.

You know, it's their diploma.

And so it's, it's a, it's a, it's a very special ring.

Only the, only the all Americans get it.

No one else.

They have one here and you know, and so it's an amazing, you know, ring.

Very cool.

Which is really neat.

So it's, it's special and it's, it's one of those things that, you know, Jalen Rose was our guest speaker this year and I think he's a great example, obviously.

Fab Five, McDonald's All American, great pro.

And then so successful after he put the ball down.

So I just said like He's a great example.

Like, this guy was the.

This guy's one of the best in the country.

Best at Michigan, great in the pros.

And then he reinvented himself.

And you got that great vivacious smile and just a really good, humble guy.

So, you know, that was really special for the kids to see.

And.

And his teammate Chris Weber had spoken a couple years before.

So I'm big fans of the Fat five.

And then day four, we have this year, we added something to our practices, invited all the alumni in.

And I'm a brag on Terry Lynch.

She really connected because the NBA's always coming to rupt, but really got the W to come in because the W is, you know, three or four years down the road.

But, you know, now, obviously, as the girls games become more intuitive and advanced and athletic, you know, the W really was great to come in.

So we were fortunate we had the W come in.

NBA was in for the three, day three practices prior to that.

And then we have the Jam Fest.

So this year, the Sprite Jam Fest, where they do a skills event, knockout dunk contest.

It just have a really great atmosphere.

We were fortunate this year.

We had Glorilla came in, we had Angel, Reese came back and as a judges, so, you know, they just make it real special for the kids.

Ronald McDonald and Grimace was there, so it's funny, the kids were.

They obviously know Ronald McDonald.

They recognize Grimace, but they kept calling this, like, this purple puff.

And I was like, grimace, guys.

And they're like, okay.

Like they, you know, they just didn't recognize him as a character.

So it was kind of neat to see them interact with that.

And then we finally have day five, which is game day.

So we have the shoot around in the morning and do all of our team photos and do our college photos.

So if we have a group that's boys and girls or just boys or just girls going to a specific college, we pull them together and do a big team, you know, like a Kentucky or Villanova or Notre Dame pitcher.

And then we have game night, you know, and game night's awesome.

It's where their dreams come true.

It's from the time they were little and wanted to be a burger kid.

They come out on that floor and just to watch their smiles and, you know, you know, they.

They're funny because they try to be too cool for school.

You know, like they.

They kind of joke all week that they've made it and we have a great time with them on the buses and they just are great kids.

But then they get out there and you watch and their eyes light up and they're looking around in the stands and they're looking at the floor and they're just excited to see their names, you know, and some of these kids have played in larger venues than that just throughout their high school career.

But this is where they, they walk out there and they, they realize that they've actually arrived, you know, that they, they've actually completed something that a very small group of individuals have done over the 48 years.

I think what's interesting hearing you guys talk is I've had a bunch of different episodes with guys from that have coached at USA Basketball events.

And I do a regular feature with Rob Bros too.

He coaches at Bolingbrook High School in, in Illinois.

And, and Robbie consistently talks about something that you guys mentioned, which is you look at the talent of the players that are involved, whether it's the McDonald's All American game or Team USA or whatever it might be.

And you watch these guys on the floor or you watch the young women on the floor and you're like, the talent level is just astronomical.

And he's like, but as soon as the ball stops bouncing and they walk over onto the sideline, he goes, they're doing the exact same thing that my players are doing at Bowling Brook.

They got their phone out there, you know, hitting each other with shoes.

They're doing, you know, it's just you again, they're, they're 18 year old kids.

They're extremely talented as basketball players, as 18 year old kids, but they're still 18 year old kids.

And I know that that's something.

Whenever I have a conversation with Rob, when he gets an opportunity to go and work a USA Basketball event, that's always one of the things that comes through is just, he feels the connection with those kids because again, they're just kids.

They're just like the high school kids that he's coaching.

They just have whatever physical tools and the, the mental makeup and all the things that you guys know that it takes to be at that level that we're talking about here.

And I think sometimes people forget that, right?

You see, you see a kid 17, 18, 19 years old now, we see them on TV, whether it's at the college level or the McDonald's All American game or you know, they're one and done and they're in the NBA and we forget that they're just there, there, there's people back there, there, there's 19 year old kids, there's 20 year old kids that they're still just like the rest of us.

Just, just, just with a lot of, just a lot more basketball talent, physical tools.

And then most of us were gifted.

Absolutely.

And you know, you'd be surprised at how shy some of them are.

Yeah, I mean, you know, you see them on the floor and, and that's their game personality.

Everyone jokes, you know, coaches, he was, you know, they, they said he was loud and he was, you know, monstrous on the floor.

But then in life he's actually pretty quiet, you know and it's funny like some of them are just so super shy and you don't expect it because they are full of life on the court.

And like I would say, and I think Joe would agree with me, this group of 48 across the board were the most appreciative and talented.

The most talented, the most respectful and gracious group of kids that we have dealt with in a long time.

I mean, I can't tell you, every morning they would cheer, shake our hands.

Good morning, Coach.

Good morning, Mrs.

Wooten.

You know, hugs like Eli Elijah Arenas, if he hugged me one more time, I think he and I might have been dating.

Like it was just, you know, he's such a great kid.

And across the board, you know, they just to a T, could not have been the most polite, gracious, appreciative, nice group of kids.

And to each other, like they were just very, you know, team oriented and enjoyable and fun to be around.

I think that goes back to Joe, what you and I were talking about, right, in terms of the parent influence and not just the parents, but I think that if you look at players at that level today in 2025 versus maybe players in 1992, the advice and just the resources that are in place for those kids to be able to learn how to deal with people and how to handle the fame and maybe eventually the money and with nil and all these things that there's just so much more information out there to be able to have those players have that kind of training to be able to come into it and experience what you guys experience with them, that they seem like they, they're, they're better able to handle those situations than maybe a 17 or 18 year old kid back in the time when all of us were 17 or 18, if that makes sense.

I think no doubt.

I mean obviously they've been through more experiences and, and I think we need to continue to educate them on, you know, obviously, you know, as much things change things, things stay the same, you know, Obviously, now it's a dho.

Before it was the weave, you know, or, you know, so.

Or a dribble handoff.

So things obviously do change, but the fundamentals stay the same.

So I think, obviously, learn how to meet people, you know, treat everyone with respect, obviously educate yourself on.

On new topics.

You know, as we mentioned before earlier in the podcast, like, finding out people that are good at what they do.

Like, you know, like we, you know, Okano, we have a really good team of doctors who work with John Tobacco and Chris and Nunziana and the chair Lynn set up, and just phenomenal.

And so, you know, they're the experts when it comes to that, and so obviously lean on them.

And getting the right experts in the right areas is really important.

And don't be afraid to say, if you're a parent, I don't know.

You know, I'm trying to figure this out and obviously seek advice.

And I, as a head coach, one of the biggest pieces of advice I've had, I've had 16 guys become head high school coaches that coached underneath five in college, and I'm really proud of them.

And they always call me after the first couple of weeks, and they say, this is really lonely because I was at decisions.

So it is lonely.

And.

And so I think one of the big things that we obviously, you know, need to do is have a board of directors, and so obviously not an official board, but.

Who do you talk to as a head coach when you're not sure how to handle the situation?

I still, to this day, you know, talk to.

Talk to people I respect.

You know, obviously my dad, till he passed, obviously Terry Lynn, Terry Lynn's dad, you know, former, you know, guys that.

That I worked with, you know, how would you handle the situation?

Even if you don't know the kids, how would you handle the situation?

How would you, you know, you know, better this situation.

So I think always having your board of directors is really important, and I.

Think you have to treat the kids as people, you know, I think you get the best out of them when they're not just commodities or players.

You know, we tell our players all the time that, you know, we want to know them as a person, we want to know their likes and dislikes, and we want them to feel comfortable to come talk to us outside of basketball.

Like, there has to be a relationship there of mutual respect.

But more importantly, the players have to know you care about them whether they score 20, take a charge, give up five turnovers, or just have a bad day at practice and I think that too many coaches out there spend so much time on what they do well and what they don't do well and don't really get to know them as people and find out how they click and how they are coached.

Not every player likes to be yelled at.

Not every player likes you to talk to them in a soft taunt.

And some of them need to be that yellow fiery type coach and some need to have more of a one on one conversation.

And I think that we teach them by mentoring them and also teach them by showing examples of how to be good people.

You're just going to create better young men and women out there.

There's no doubt that you have to figure out each individual player.

Right.

And understand what buttons you need to push with them to be able to get the best out of them.

And I think that's what the best coaches do.

Right as you build.

Goes back to what we talked about right off the top, Joe, that the, the relationship side of it is so important because you get to know your kids, you got to get to know the players and then you can be in a position to help them to have the most success that they possibly can.

And I think that's what, that's what every coach, we're all striving for, that we don't always get there every single time.

It's hard, it's hard to be, it's hard to maintain a perfect record in that area.

But that's certainly something that I think most coaches try to do is to get an understanding of, hey, what does this player need from me in order to be at their best?

And I think that's something that coaches are constantly working to be able to do.

Give me a behind the scenes story from the McDonald's All American game.

What's your favorite behind the scenes?

Maybe not necessarily related to the game itself, but just something funny or something memorable that happened outside of the, the.

View of the public obviously always had back in the, in the, you know, in the player lounge, like a ping pong game going on or you know, the kids playing, you know, Xbox or PlayStation, whatever.

So I think that's always fun.

I always find it funny on the bus like, you know, things that go on, you know, if you get them talking and you know, you know, you know, sharing thoughts and things like that.

So I think that's always fun, you know, to, to kind of see, get to know, miss people.

That's always a neat thing.

So I mean, you know, those kind of things in the modern day, anything you'd add to that.

And I've.

I've won from the beginning.

Yeah.

I mean, I'd say, you know.

You know, we've had things from, you know, kids just being kids and, you know, forgetting things or wearing funny things to, like, the banquet we had this year.

You know, we had a player on the bus who.

He's full of spirit.

I mean, he's full of spirit.

And he was just, you know, he was baiting everybody on who's.

That was funny, who the best college team was going to be and how they were all going to play and how he was going to win.

And it just happens to be that his team, that he's going to, the school he's going to.

They unfortunately, coach left, and they lost everybody on the roster.

So he had declared that he was.

They only needed him.

He was the only one they needed.

They did not need any other players.

And if he did bring a couple other players, they could just play defense and he would play offense.

Yeah, he just.

He was just.

And he was funny because he was, like, dead serious.

And, of course, the other players were just needling him, you know.

And then we had one time with garf finkel about 10 years ago.

We're sitting at the scores table, and it's myself, Joe, his dad, Bob Gagan, and Sunny Hill.

And this woman walks over and she starts slapping Garf on the side.

So I turn and I'm like, what are you doing?

And she's like, his pocket.

There's smoke in his pocket.

He's on fire.

I look down, there's smoke coming out of his pockets.

I'm like, garf, what are you doing?

And he goes, I had to sneak my smokes in.

So he was smoking his cigarette and then sticking it in his.

Putting in his pockets our Garfield committee.

And I'm like, garp, are you serious?

And he's like, yeah, what's the problem?

Like, you can't smoke in here.

Well, you could back.

Back in the day when kids played outside, and you could go to Robert Morris and you could smoke outside where you were while you're playing on the tennis courts.

You could.

You could get away with that.

You can't get.

Can't get away with that stuff anymore.

So we've had.

Oh, that's good.

We've definitely had a lot of fun.

We've definitely had, you know, a lot of things where the kids just.

They're kids.

Stuff that comes out of their mouths.

You're just like, really?

And then you have to remember they're kids.

And part of it, I think one thing is that we have new coaches every year that are really great coaches in their own right.

It's always fun to meet them and their personalities and makes each game a little different, each of the kids different.

And so, so we're very honored to work with them.

I want to ask you guys a final two part question.

You guys can both answer it because again, with the camps, with the McDonald's All American Game, and then obviously with the family involvement that you guys have at O'Connell.

So here's the question.

Two parts.

Number one, when you look ahead over the next year or two, what do you see as being your biggest challenge?

And then the second part of the question, when you think about what you guys get to do each and every day, what brings you the most joy?

So your biggest challenge and then your biggest joy?

Well, I, I'll take the big.

The biggest joy because I think you always want to start with the positive is obviously like, I get to work, you know, every day I get to go to work.

And I love what I do.

And people always, you know, and I.

A friend of mine, Chris Arnie, who's the coach, St.

Mary's College always lasted, I say, at a cocktail party, but I mean, at a social gathering, people say, you know, what are you doing?

I'm a basketball coach.

And what do you do for a living?

Well, that's what I do, you know, so.

So I'm very fortunate to do that.

I get to work with young people, get to work, impact people's lives, you know, and, you know, the impact when you see him 10 years later is really amazing.

That's the Joelle of her, Sarah Joy.

I mean, I.

Same thing, you know, I'm very blessed.

I get to, I get to work with girls and boys that we meet a lot of them when they're 9, 10, 11 years old.

We watch them grow into teenagers, and then we watch them grow into successful young men and women.

And they come back and, you know, that's.

Wins and losses are great, but what really matters in 10, 15 years when they come back and they, they give you a hug and they, they thank you, and they say, thanks so much for being a part of my life.

So I'm very blessed there.

I'm blessed that I get to work with my husband.

You know, there's a lot of families out there that you come and go, get up and leave at 6, come back at 8 and you go to bed.

I'm blessed that all three of my kids have grown up in the system, have had great mentors and great role models through the McDonald's kids to our own personal high school kids and coaches and campers.

So those are, you know, the things that I'm very blessed, enjoyed and, and thank God for every day.

And I would say the biggest challenge is obviously, for her, has got to be working with me.

But.

No, I'm just kidding.

No, no, obviously, you know, I think one of the biggest challenges obviously is, is that, you know, always trying to adapt, but yet maintain the fundamentals.

And that could be on the team, that could be in the McDonald's game, that could be, you know, our camps.

And so I kind of would go back to.

This is like, you know, the McDonald's game is obviously, you know, we never had a halftime performer, which, which obviously is fun.

It's.

It's great.

But it always goes back to making sure the players experience and getting the right 24 players.

So to me, that's the challenge of balancing what matters with the fun part.

Basketball camp, you know, teaching kids how to play, having fun, you know, that's important.

And then it's fun to do, you know, to go to Chick Fil A at the Lane center and things like that.

But what matters is that, and then obviously going to our team, it's like, you know, remembering the camaraderie and, and, you know, as.

As, you know, we mentioned the family environment, like Terry Lynn, you know, has been an athletic trainer and assistant coach, but always goes on the road with us, you know, which is phenomenal.

And, and so, you know, balancing, you know, that.

And then, and then obviously, you know, just, you know, making sure that we're.

You're always prioritizing every day.

I always say this like good people prioritize what they do because you're always going to have things you have to get done.

But if you prioritize every day, you'll be in good shape.

It's well said.

Joe.

Before we get out, I want to give you a chance to share.

How can people connect with you, find out more about what you guys are doing on the camp side, the McDonald's all American side, the Bishop O'Connell side.

Just what's the best way for people to get in touch with you?

Email, social media, website, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I'll jump back in and wrap things up.

So you can reach us at joeachwooten.com and Wooten has two O's, two T's, Terry Lynn, coachwooten.com or camp@coachwooten.com and our website is coachwooten.com so it's C coach and then W-O-O-T-T-E-N.com so we're always available.

Our numbers are on that that our phone numbers on that website as well.

So you can reach out to us.

And we're all basketball all day.

Easy enough.

And we'll get all that in the show notes so that everybody will be able to see it.

Joe and Terry Lynn cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to join us.

Really appreciate it.

And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.

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