Hey, it's Aaron. This week on the pod, Val and I take the long view on the string of prominent immigration arrests carried out in the Spokane area by federal officials since the Trump administration took power promising to deport millions of people across the country. This is Valerie oer and I'm here with Aaron Hedge. And we're here for a free range co-production of KYS and Range media. Do you wanna go? Hedge we just got into the, the studio right now and we're just settling in and trying to be on time. That's right. Yeah. So today's just me and Val. Mm-hmm. We're here to talk about the local implications of a story that has sort of mm-hmm. Consumed the political landscape nationally since Donald Trump was elected president. And that's his de deportation plans for immigrants across the country. We know that federal agents have been operating in the Inland Northwest, and they've been ramping up their mm-hmm. Their activities here. And we just wanted to talk about the saga from Yeah. From the beginning. Yeah. So, well first we're gonna talk about some recent stories. Mm-hmm. So, hedge has been covering the, the immigration issues in Spokane since, this year. And since. I don't, I don't know. I don't wanna say the beginning. So since this year, but this in the last two weeks, we've had two stories coming out. One is and they're related essentially. Yeah. One kind of led to the other. Yeah. So the first one was last week. A man named Martin Diaz was arrested by ice without a warrant. And YM may have seen a video on social media. It was caught on ring camera. And this incident happened in Spokane, obviously, or we, well, we'd cover it if it was in Spokane County, but it happened in Spokane and it, it hedge. Why don't you tell me about the video? Tell us. Yeah. So, so well, I'll, I'll back up just a little bit. Okay. So we got, we got, we got a tip from some, some local activists saying that there had been this violent arrest of a guy in North Spokane. Mm-hmm. And we were put in touch with his, his wife and it turned out that it was the same person who posted a video back in in February. Mm-hmm. Of ice agents, some of them in uniform, some of them not. Like they showed up to their place. And one of the, one of the agents, and they were, they were all in, in unmarked vehicles. Mm-hmm. And one of the agents had pretended to, to crash into her truck. And I don't know the mechanics of that, but like, that's, that's the story that Is there an insurance claim? Yeah. That's the story that she tells. And then that they basically staged this scene outside of her house. Mm-hmm. And that, that drew her and her roommate out mm-hmm. Into the yard. Her name is Kendall Diaz. Mm-hmm. Her husband is, is Martin Diaz. Like, like you said earlier. And the agents, according to Kendall's Facebook post. It's not visible in, in the video, but she said that they pointed like military style weapons at the roommates. Wow. He's a my understanding it, he's, he's a, he's a Native American man. He's got darker skin. Mm-hmm. And they interrogated him for, for a while trying to, to ascertain whether he's a a US citizen. He is. So they, they let him go. Mm-hmm. But they were there for, they were there for Martin because he had a he had a deportation order issued against him in 2008 that was related to an assault charge. Mm-hmm. That he was that he pled guilty to. And. It was, they didn't have a warrant but they kept trying back in February. Yeah. And, and they kept trying to like, go into the backyard. Mm-hmm. And Kendall like confronted them and said they couldn't go in, and they gave up and mm-hmm. And, and left. Martin wasn't there. Yeah. And so they couldn't, they couldn't detain him. And is it that, like when it's your private property and police don't have a warrant you don't have to let them into your backyard? Right. They, they have to, for them to search your private property, they have to have a judicial warrant. Mm-hmm. So they often operate with a type of warrant or order called it administrative warrant. Mm-hmm. Which is like just signed by an official from the agency that they work for. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. If they show up with that kind of warrant they don't have explicit authority to come and search your property. They do have the authority to arrest somebody. Mm-hmm. The, the person, the warrant is for if they, if they find that person, but but they don't have the authority to, to search a property. If they have, if they have a judicial warrant, then, then they can come on the property. They don't need your permission. But yeah, so that, that was a, a warrantless incident. Mm-hmm. And so, so they, they really, Martin has been trying to get his green card for more than a decade. And they've been I, I think Kendall told, told another news organization that they had spent tens of thousands of dollars mm-hmm. So far trying to get his trying to get his, his green card. O over the, over like the course of, Yeah. A number of years. And, it's, it is a long, arduous process. I know, I know that process. 'cause I was married to a woman who mm-hmm. Got, got her green card and it was, it's a, yeah. I, like, we had a pretty smooth experience with it. Mm-hmm. But not everybody has a smooth experience with it. Yeah. But even my smooth experience was like expensive, really long and arduous and expensive. Thousands of dollars you have to spend on it. So they've been working, I think a lot of people specifically if you're not like in. Exposed to people who are not US citizens or immigrated here or whatever it, they don't realize how expensive the, the, the quote unquote doing it the right way is it? Even for something like daca, I, I learned in college through reporting. And, and this kind of changed my viewpoint a lot on immigration policy, was learning how expensive DACA was and how and DACA is stands for Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, I believe. And it's for people who were brought into the us. As like a child, as a minor and, theoretically by their parent and they had no choice in the matter. And it was a program that Obama instituted to enable these kids to be able to work and, and to get work permits and do it legally. But even the process for applying something like that, that work permit only lasts for about two years, I believe. And then you have to pay to renew it and it's like thousands of dollars to renew it. And so, how are you supposed to get thousands of dollars if you can't legally work and, and things like that. So, even down to some fairly, like, I don't know if we would consider DACA successful, but those types of programs those are expensive. And so the Green Card program is just more expensive and more long, more long, longer. Yeah. It's, it's not, it, it depends. It depends on, on how well it goes. I, I know that for, for my former wife it was, it, it, it went really smoothly in, in the way that it was supposed to go. And it took, it took about four years for her to like finalize her green card. Yeah. That's long still. Yeah, it's a long time. And we spent several thousand dollars on it. But yeah, I, I don't think a lot of people realize like how, how expensive and difficult it is to, to jump through all the hoops and mm-hmm. And do the things that people say that immigrants. Should have to do to to, yeah. To stay here. So yeah, that's a, that's a whole RAs, yeah. So yeah, back to Martin Diaz's story. So he's been trying to get his green card for like 10 years and and then he had this deportation order that was related to, we didn't really find out about this assault charge until the second story we wrote about him, or until another news outlet reported about it. Because they had partners in Yakima where these charges happened. Yes. And do, what details do you know about the deportation order and them trying to get it. Cleared and things like, and all of that. Well, so after they, they were, understandably, like, pretty freaked out after the first time that ice showed up at their door. But and so, and so after that they their, they ramped up their efforts to try to get this deportation order removed. They got legal, like there, there's a local organization called Latinos in Spokane that helped them get access to a lawyer mm-hmm. Who was helping them through the process. And and this, this was before February, right? This was, this was after February. Oh, gotcha. Okay. They, they had attempted, they, they had attempted through like mm-hmm. The normal application process. See, before I see. And, and now they, they have a lawyer. Mm-hmm. And, but they, they had, they had the courts reopen his case. Mm-hmm. And, and, and they, they have documentation of that. Mm-hmm. And so, but, but so, so last week, on Tuesday, last week several, several months had passed since, since they had initially shown up. And so yeah. They felt like maybe things were dying down a little bit and maybe mm-hmm. Maybe they weren't watching him so closely, but he was driving to work on Tuesday morning early and he noticed that, that some people were following him, him mm-hmm. In these unmarked vehicles. And so he, so he went back home 'cause he felt like he'd be safe at home mm-hmm. Because they can't search his property without a warrant. Right. And so there's, there's video from, basically Yeah. There, there their ring doorbell. That shows Martin Drive up mm-hmm. And park at the curb on, on the side of his lawn. And he gets out I think he has a coffee cup and he like drops it and like he looks over and drops it. And then another, another car drives up like very quickly and, and Parks and Martin like, runs very quickly, like mm-hmm. He's, he's basically running for safety, for the safety of his backyard. And he gets to his backyard and by the time he's there one of the agents had. Exited his vehicle and was, was chasing him. Mm-hmm. And Martin opens the, the gate to his backyard, and the guy like tackles the mm-hmm. And, and this officer was wearing a uniform, a border patrol uniform, and he tackles him into the gate. And then two other officers who were in civilian clothing also tackle him. Mm-hmm. And they drag him out into the front yard and they arrest him. They don't show a warrant. His, his, again, the, the same roommate was there. Mm-hmm. And he, he said that he, he, he had a confrontation with the officers just asking them for, for a warrant and asking them for their badge numbers. Mm-hmm. They didn't give him any information. And yeah, they, they, they just arrested him. Wow. And, and took him, they took him to the Kune County Jail, um mm-hmm. Which is, has an agreement with the federal government to, to house immigrants when. Like the actual ice detention facilities don't have enough room. Mm-hmm. And so he was there for several days I think. Do we know that if he's been transferred to like Tacoma or another facility, I'm not sure if he's been transferred. Mm-hmm. He, so he was the, the agents filed a, an assault charge against him? Yeah. Because during the scuffle they said that he elbowed one of them in the base. Mm-hmm. And so they, they're charging him with assault against the agent. Now, is the agent getting an indecent exposure charge at all? And I am asking that question because in the video one of the non-uniform agents is wearing like baggy shorts. Mm-hmm. Not, not a, well, not regulation, right? No. And in the scuffle, his pants came down and it's captured on camera. So if you wanna see that video, I don't know why you would wanna see Man's Butt, but if you wanted to see it, it's available linked on range media.co. But anyways, sorry. I just want, that was a digression because, we have to look for the bright spots even. Well, I think even if they're a white man's butt, I think it shows, I think it shows that, and this, this guy, the, the guy who lost his shorts during the scuffle mm-hmm. Whereas baggy clothing mm-hmm. And to, to, and, and I've seen him, he's popped up on social media Yeah. Elsewhere. And he's always wearing the same clothes. It does seem like there's an air of, like, they don't feel like they have to. Mm-hmm. They don't feel like they have to wear uniforms or even be like, well, Kemp. Mm-hmm. And there's, it, it's, it's unclear. Exactly. We think this guy works for ice, but he won't identify himself. And so, like, he could be a vigilante for all we know. There's questions about whether he's a vigilante and, like, are people really asking that? Yeah. Oh, wow. Not about him specifically. Yeah. Like people believe he works for ice. Right. But, but some of these folks, like Yeah, we don't know who they are. In general. Yeah. 'cause that's opened up, like this whole thing has opened up a lot of scary possibilities for people who are not citizens, who are not white, who don't have that privilege. Like, the white privilege and things like that. Like, I know if I were a woman of color right now, I would be very terrified if, if I was, that I could be just kidnapped off the streets under the guise of a deportation, by anybody. Mm-hmm. And I know that's a fear for a lot of people. And so this this arrest led into our next story about. Ice, and we just published that yesterday. I think his week has been a blur. Mm-hmm. And tell me a little bit about that hedge. So, back in February so there, there's, there's a local activist named Jennifer Mesa. She, she's the founder of Latinos in Spokane. Mm-hmm. The organization that organized legal representation for Martin. Mm-hmm. And sh we, we heard through, a few tips from, from different people, including Jennifer, that ICE had been surveilling the headquarters of LES mm-hmm. And her home. Yeah. And she wasn't, she wasn't fully confident mm-hmm. In that she had just seen some vehicles driving slowly past her place. And she felt like they were possibly like government agents scoping her place out. Mm-hmm. And she was worried about it at the time, but she didn't feel like she had enough to go on to to, to feed that information as facts to reporters. Right. She did tell us about it, but mm-hmm. But we weren't, we, we decided not to report it at that time. Yeah. Because there was just not enough. There just wasn't quite enough fact. Mm-hmm. But we did report it yesterday. Mm-hmm. Because Kendall told us that, and, and she also told Jennifer and Kendall is the wife of Martin Diaz mm-hmm. Who was just detained for deportation. Mm-hmm. That Martin overheard the same agents that arrested him. Mm-hmm. Like bragging about having surveilled. Jennifer Mays. House and they even told him Jennifer's address. So that was like proof that they knew where she lived and, and so we felt like that was enough information mm-hmm. To go ahead and run the story. And outta curiosity and you might not know this do you know like details on how Jennifer came up during the detaining process of Martin Diaz? Was it like a, handcuff handcuffing? Click, click, ha ha ha. We. No, we found you 'cause we have your address and also we have the address of this lady. Like how did that come up? That's not clear. I asked Kendall about that. The information that she had was just that. Mm-hmm. Martin had told her to warn Jennifer Okay. About it. I don't know. They, they were talking directly to him mm-hmm. About Jennifer. Mm-hmm. I don't know if they brought that up to be like intimidating or like Yeah. I don't know exactly why they would do that, but yeah. But that's, that's the way that it happened and I don't I, I don't know the impetus for Yeah, like what, like what in the conversation led to that specifically. And it's not out of the realm of possibility for sure that, a police officer's saying stuff to intimidate somebody they're arresting. Like that's a fairly common thing that happens. Well, and another interesting I. Fact that that I learned last week at the, the mayday march on, on May 1st which was a big event that was organized by LES. Mm-hmm. That Martin has a good friend who is a senior organizer at LES. Oh, interesting. And so, and so, he's not, like Jennifer hadn't, she didn't know Martin before. Mm-hmm. Ice had showed up to his place the first time. But he knew about LES, he had friends in the organization, and so that's a possible way that they, they got into that conversation, but I don't know for sure. Yeah, that's a, that's still kinda scary. It's very scary because Jennifer Mesa, we haven't mentioned it yet, but she's a US citizen and her family members are US citizens. And so theoretically there should be no reason why an immigration enforcement federal agency would be monitoring her home. And that, that's, that's where we go into our constitutional rights and civil rights mm-hmm. And things like that. And that's, I think, the, the biggest. The, the overarching concern with everything outside of, in addition, not outside of it, but in addition to the inhumanity and, and all of that. And then, so along those lines what makes it, so Jennifer told us back in February, a few months ago, that she was, she suspected that ICE was watching her, her home. Yes. And they had shown up to the LAS headquarters and tried to get in before. But what makes us believe, I, I guess what makes us believe Martin, like, like, like if, if he's wrong, if, if it was wrong, worst case he's lying outright just to mm-hmm. Stir something up and best case he misheard. So what makes us believe him as journalists? Well, there's, there's a few things. Mm-hmm. For me, and to be clear, I, I have not talked to Martin right. Directly. I only have this from from Kendall and Jennifer. Mm-hmm. But I, I, I think that journalists have a tendency to, there, there's like, if, if you, if you flip the, if you flip the coin mm-hmm. Journalists have a tendency to take information from like, quote unquote, like official sources. Mm-hmm. And just take that at face value. And often that turns out later to be wrong. Mm-hmm. Sometimes, sometimes in journalism, we publish the fir, the, we call it the first draft of history. Mm-hmm. And then some of the facts later need to be corrected. Mm-hmm. It's possible that that some of this stuff isn't true. Mm-hmm. Martin does have an incentive to tell the most generous version of the story for himself. Mm-hmm. And if we. I if we, if we, find out something different later on. Mm-hmm. We'll, obviously we obviously want to correct the record. Right. But I think that we do see a pattern of this happening across the country, and if you, if you place it within that context mm-hmm. That's a, that's a measure of credibility for me as a journalist. I don't know, I don't know how other journalists would feel about that, but but for me, I think that that's, like, I, as long as he's going on the record mm-hmm. Or his wife is going on the record and, and putting their name behind it mm-hmm. Then I, I think, I think that's another measure of cred, credibility. They're willing to go on the record and put themselves out there. So there's, there's a few reasons that I believe the story. Mm-hmm. Obviously if it, if it turns out that, parts of it aren't true. Mm-hmm. We'll wanna, we'll wanna write a new story and Yeah. And, and correct the record on it. Yeah. And something that would be really helpful would be if Ice would go on the record about this. When, when you were reporting this story, you, you talked to the spokesman of Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Is he the spokesman just for this area or for like, all of it? He's the spokesman for the Pacific Northwest region. Okay, gotcha. Of ice. But, he would, he declined to comment for this story, basically on the record. And it it, like we get criticisms, about like, oh, aren't you including. The other side of it, it's like we tried. Yeah. I, I called David and mm-hmm. David, his name is David Yost. Mm-hmm. He's the spokesperson for ice. And, and he's always been really nice to me when I've talked to him, but mm-hmm. But yeah, he declined to comment on this story, and I do think it, if they want their side of the story represented mm-hmm. And, and they have a, another like, factual landscape to the, to present. Like, I'll present that as, like, like I'll, I'll always like flesh it out that way. Mm-hmm. But they, they declined to give us any information about it. Yeah. And another thing that would help is like body cam footage, if we had audio from that I don't think the ring camera video captures that long into the detainment. And obviously this could have happened. While he was being processed in a facility, it could have happened in the car, like it could have happened anywhere where that particular camera that happened to be on the front of the house didn't capture it. But that would, that would be the ultimate, proof though with like AI capabilities that, might not work well. I think I, I think there's more reporting to do on it. Yes. Absolutely. And, I, I, I haven't done this yet. Mm-hmm. It's been a busy week. But to request the, the body cam mm-hmm. Footage of, of the arrest yeah. It, it's something that it is good for police accountability and I don't know. And, and for accountability in this situation. Yeah. So. Some of our earlier stories that we talked about. So we, we talked about when a lot of this immigration enforcement started happening or going more full force. We were hearing rumblings of, or ice taking people de that they detained for deportation over across the border to Idaho, to the Kune County Jail. And that's because Washington has a law that says that local governments and entities can't cooperate with ice or with immigration enforcement. Is that right? Yeah, that's right. It's called the freezing. Yeah, it's called the the Keep Washington Working Act. Got it. Yeah. And it's basically, people call it a, a sanctuary. Mm-hmm. A sanctuary law establishes Washington essentially as a sanctuary state. Mm-hmm. Yeah, local and state. Agencies in Washington cannot help, cannot legally help federal agents enforce immigration law. And so that includes but before the Keep Washington Working Act mm-hmm. Immigrants arrested by federal agents could have been housed at the Spokane County Jail. Mm-hmm. And this law was passed in 2019, so that's the timeframe. Mm-hmm. But I, I still operates in Spokane mm-hmm. Where we're, and, and so does border patrol we're in, we're within mm-hmm. A hundred miles of an international border. Mm-hmm. And so they, they arrest people here for, for immigration crimes. And they need to have like, like often there's not enough room in their facilities mm-hmm. Including the, the Northwest Ice Processing Center in Tacoma. Mm-hmm. To. To house all the people that they arrest. And so they have an agreement, they have agreements with county sheriffs, like all over the nation in states that don't have a sanctuary law. Mm-hmm. And one of those is in Kune County where the sheriff has has an agreement with them to house immigrants who arrested for immigration crimes. And they list them on, on the roster as a, as a border patrol hold. Mm-hmm. And I think they're usually there for a few days until space opens up in the, in the Northwest Ice Processing Center. But yeah, like, so, so that's like, that's just their, their work around mm-hmm. To get around the Keep Washington Working Act. Do we know where they're going after the Tacoma Center? Like, are they being sent to El Salvador in a prison or are they getting sent back to their home countries? Do, have we heard anything. And you're referring to like, well spec sorry. Specifically to like the cases that we've heard from Spokane. Yeah. And there's, there's like this, this very large scale story happening where the federal government is shipping people to this Oh yeah. Sorry. This brutal prison in El Salvador. Yeah. And, and the, the president of al of El Salvador boasts that, like, nobody ever makes it out of there. Right. They don't like, like the only way you leave is in a coffin. Yeah. I have not heard of anybody who's been arrested in Spokane, any of the cases Yeah. That I've that I've examined. I, I don't have a window into that. Mm-hmm. Where they, where they've gone. Ideally when, when somebody's deported, they're, they're deported back to their country of origin. Mm-hmm. So if you're from Nicaragua, you go back to Nicaragua. Mm-hmm. That's not the case with these, with, with many of these new of the Trump administration's deportations. Mm-hmm. But I, I don't have a Yeah. Factual window on that. I do know, I, I did talk to a guy who spent 45 days there. Mm-hmm. And he was released on Bond. Yeah. And he's the only, he's the only case that I'm aware of that was released on Bond. His name is Bismarck of Nu mm-hmm. And he's a, he's a Ghanaian migrant. And he was arrested on January 26th after church. He was one of the first of the Trump administrations arrested in Spokane. And he was, yeah. So he was there for, for a month and a half. And he said that, at two o'clock on 2 2, 2 o'clock in the morning on Tuesdays agents would come in to his, his basically his, it's like, it's like an open like rooming space where there's, there's bunk beds that line the wall mm-hmm. And would wake everybody up and would single out people who were being processed for deportation and they would take 'em and nobody ever knew who that was gonna happen to. Specifically at 2:00 AM on Tuesdays. 2:00 AM on Tuesdays. Yeah. It was a very regimented schedule. Yeah. Like they had to do like a head count three times a day at a very specific time. Right. You don't wanna lose anyone. No. But yeah, so, so that's, that's the way it worked from, from his perspective. Yeah. Sometimes these people would be transferred to other ICE facilities. Mm-hmm. Sometimes they'd be processed for deportation. Exactly. But it was never, there was no, it, there was, from Bismarck's perspective, there was no like rhyme or reason to it. Mm-hmm. And nobody ever knew when their time was coming. That's terrifying. Yeah. Yeah, we have a, a guide in our immigration category on our website of like how to find a loved one in who that's in ice custody because mm-hmm. It's a process, you have to know they have like a special number. I can't remember what the number's name is. It's the alien registration number. Oh, right. That that name, you either have to have their name and their A number or their, or their name and their country of origin. Oh, okay. Country of origin is easier. Yeah. Because the, A number is usually, like, that's, that's a, it's very expensive. That's a specific identifier. Yeah. When I've gotten documents back about migrants cases, like mm-hmm. Whoever sent it to me would always redact it. So, because it's just a personally identifying Yeah. Number like a social security number. But if you have their, their full name and their country of origin it also asks for their birth date. But that's, that's optional. Okay. But yeah, it's, it's just a, if you, if you Google like how to mm-hmm. We have, we have our guide. Mm-hmm. But you, you can, you, you can Google like how to locate a loved one Right. In a nice facility. Yeah. And it'll take you to that, that website. Brief aside does the A number, is that assigned so that immigrants can pay taxes or is that one of the mechanisms for paying taxes? Right. I know there is a, there's a mechanism that immigrants are able to pay taxes and I just don't remember what it is. I can't remember if that's the number. I think there's also a thing called the tax identification number. Oh, right. And they can also apply for a social security number. Yes. The, A number is so that they can track your iig, your immigration case. I see. That's the primary. Okay. Reason for it. My former wife mm-hmm. Has an A number. Mm-hmm. And they track her immigration case. Yeah. She, she's applying for citizenship. Mm-hmm. And everything, every time she applies, uh mm-hmm. They use her a number to, to, to bring up all of the records that relate to her case. Yeah. And then, so speaking of records and, and I just lost my train of thought. I was thinking, what am I thinking of? Well, I think one of the interesting things about, about this is if you, if you're, if you're actively, and and this is the case with all of the people that I've reported on. Mm-hmm. They all have an A number. Right. They're all trying to, to go there. We through the system. And, sorry, because, because they're, because they're actively trying to mm-hmm. Do the things that the United States says they have to do to be here legally. Mm-hmm. Because they're trying to jump through all those hoops. Right. The government knows where they are. Yeah. They know, they know where they live. They have an address. Mm-hmm. They often know where they work. Yeah, they can often like know, when they're traveling mm-hmm. A lot, a lot of detail about their whereabouts at any given time. And so that allows the government to go find them mm-hmm. And deport. And that's, and that's the way that they're, they're tracking a lot of the folks that they're trying to deport. Yeah. That was, that was my next, that was the question. I couldn't It's okay. Yeah, because there, there's a lot of emphasis in especially conservative circles and people who just doesn't, don't understand the immigration system very well of like, well, they need to do it the right way. These people are doing it the quote unquote right way, and they are getting deported because of it, or targeted because of it. And then this kind of also like, what's, it dovetails nicely into the, the criminal conversation of this all because, the Trump administration's really hammering, really building this narrative or has built this narrative of like, these immigrants are criminals and they need to get them out of the country. And we've gotten criticisms for our coverage of these cases 'cause in some of these cases I think with the exception of Bismarck that there was like a criminal charge, like old criminal charges for, maybe assault or getting in a fight or whatever. And people say, well, why don't you rec why don't you. Include that in your stories or, and we usually do, if we know about it or if we, like, we look, first of all, we, we do look but if it's not in the Spokane County system it can be really hard to find court records on these kinds of things because we're really spoiled in Spokane County in having easy access to court records or relatively easy access. And so how, how do we, how do you approach like the, that conversation or that part of the, the story? Yeah. Well, and I, I think one of the, one of the first instances where I ran into this and, this is part of the learning curve of reporting on, on immigration. Mm-hmm. And, I'm like trying to establish a good philosophy for this was the case of Caesar and Jason mm-hmm. Ruez Rodriguez, who are being processed for deportation. They were arrested. In a pretty violent way in Spokane Valley in, in March. And there was also a, a pretty violent video of it where the police or the ice officers are like smashing through the back windows and yeah. Dragging them out of the car. Yeah. They, they, they smashed, I think three of the four windows on the truck. Wow. And dragged Jason and Caesar out. Mm-hmm. And they, they tasered Jason and, and Kayla Ariba, Jason's wife, said that they hit Caesar in the head with a, with a butt of a rifle. Mm-hmm. They had to bring Jason to the hospital before they could bring him to be processed at the, at the ICE facility. They accused them of being members of Trend ua, which is, it's a, it's a, it's a Venezuelan gang that's been mm-hmm. In the news nationally a lot. It's, it's one of the gangs along with N MSS 13, that the Trump administration is accusing many of the people they're deporting of being members of. Mm-hmm. And that's why they're deporting them. Mm-hmm. Jason and Caesar were, when, when they were arrested, they were on their way to a court date to defend. Mm-hmm. And a, like a, I can't remember. It was, it was a criminal mischief charge. Mm. And there was, apparently they had shown, shown up to the home of a family member, and they were with a person who had a gun, and that person fired some bullets into the air, and it was a, that, that's, that's according to court documents. I don't know how much of that mm-hmm. Is true. It's all it's all like mm-hmm. It, it needs to be litigated. Yeah. That's why they were going to court. Yeah. And so they were on their way to their court date. Mm-hmm. And that's, that's when they were arrested. Mm-hmm. And a lot of, a lot of folks feel that the, the thing that, that that kind of like gives agents permission to do that is this new law called the Lake and Riley Act. Yeah. Which we discussed earlier. Which basically says that if you're arrested or charged with a crime mm-hmm. Then you can be processed for deportation. Mm-hmm. If you're, if you're in the country even, even if you're documented, they can, yeah. They can try to get rid of you. Yeah. So like, even if you have your visa, your green card, you're here legally. They, and they have been doing like na that part of that national trend that we were talking about earlier that lended credence to, martin Diaz's story about the ICE agents targeting Jennifer Mesa was that, that this has been happening nationally where people who are activists, who are, maybe pro-Palestine activists and they get on ICE's radar because of that, and they are visa holders or green card holders here legally, but then ICE is like, Nope, you gotta get outta here. And they deport them even if they were here properly or whatever. Yeah. And the, like it's kind of the, the Trump administration is, is like rhetorically classifying that kind of activity as like, akin to domestic terrorism. Yeah. Or like, which is, protesting that's like part of the first amendment they just protesting. But so, so. I included in, in my story about mm-hmm. The Ruiz Rodriguez's a line that said that they were going to a court date because they had like a criminal mischief charge. Mm-hmm. And it didn't detail in, in that line exactly what it was for. And I had seen, I had seen the allegations in court documents. Mm-hmm. I didn't include that information. And the reason, the reason I did it that way was because I didn't see this astor as a story about their crime. Right. I saw it as a story about government overreach. Mm-hmm. And that's what I was trying to focus on. And, I, I, I think that people can come to that with criticism in a really honest way. Mm-hmm. And, I'm, I'm still like refining whether I want to, like, include a lot more information mm-hmm. In the story. About their crime, but I don't wanna make, I don't wanna make it about their crime. Mm-hmm. Because that's not what the story is. Right. It's important context, but, and it's, it's the tool that, the federal government is using to deport people or one of the tools. So it is important to include, but the point of our constitution, not the entire, like, the point is also that our constitutional rights are being over are being eroded through this process. Like we're everyone in the United States, whether or not they're a citizen, it has the right to due process. And that means that they have the right to go to court and face their charges and argue in their defense. And and, and if, because of the Lake and Riley act specifically, and that was pa that was signed into signed into. Law. It was passed before Trump took office, but it was signed into law by Trump. Right. It was the first Yeah. Piece of legislation that he signed as president in the second term. And so, like, because of that, it's, it's much closer to fascism in like that, giving the government the authority to just remove people. And yeah, I've gotten into Facebook arguments with people. I go on Facebook about every three weeks and check my comments and then respond to three week old comments of people who've been going back and forth in a post. And, and, and in one of those arguments, somebody who is a former editor of mine who I respect a lot, and but he, he's or I respect a lot and he is more conservative. Mm-hmm. But he was he recently said he never voted for Trump which is important context in this case. Yeah. He was saying, well, Obama deported 3 million people. And nobody was, was crying about that. But one guy gets sent to El Salvador and we're, we're up in arms. And I said, well, yes, Obama was the deporter in chief and I actually covered a few protests in college regarding that, regarding Obama's immigration policies. And, and he did fast track through due process and, and. Or he did fast track the process in a way that eroded people's due processes rights, and that's wrong, and that shouldn't have happened. And that's part of his presidential legacy is his immigration policy, but it does not make what Trump is doing. Okay. It doesn't make it less bad. But a big difference is also this Lake and Riley act where that kind of essentially gives ice the ability, like the sign off to, to not have due process. So, and, and it gives like the big fear in the, the, in the US right now also is that if somebody is an immigrant, if they're here even on a visa or green card, and like we've seen with the activists where you can say, oh, you've done a crime. I accuse you of this crime, or the state accuses you of this crime, and then suddenly. You're able to be deported and, and that that's a big difference between this administration and that administration. It doesn't make what Obama did right though. Yeah. And I, well, I, I think there's, there's plenty that criticize mm-hmm. With any democratic administration. Yeah. Is there's also, like we saw, we remember those images from the Biden administration, the kids in the cages of, well, and, and the, the Haitian migrants who were trying to cross the border, the Mexican border. Mm-hmm. And there were, there were, there were like cavalry, like riding them down and like with whips, God Yeah. Like really horrifying, violent stuff. Yeah. But yeah, there, there are like obvious distinctions I think. And, and I think another one, like we have the like and Riley act, we also like, have this really widespread rhetoric. Mm-hmm. Like. Just demonizing people who mm-hmm. And it's specifically immigrants who don't look like they come from Europe, mm-hmm. But yeah, that, that's like, that's, that's the thing that journalists need to, to reckon with mm-hmm. Is the fact that like, yeah. Like, like it's, it's, it's easier to, it's easier to go after something that is as ugly as what the Trump administration is doing and ignore something when it's like wrapped up in prettier packaging. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's something that we all need to reckon with. Yeah. And I think, I think another element that just occurred to me is that, 2008, 2012 was not that long ago technically, but it was still like. More than 10 years ago. And technology has changed a lot. Social media has changed a lot. The way we communicate has changed a lot. And so I think there is a lot more awareness of what's happening now, too. It's still easy to dig your head in the sand and it was easy to dig your head in the sand back then, but there's just more smartphones, there's more cameras, there's a lot of stuff. We have a genocide happening on livestream, right now. And, and, and that's a, that is a difference as well. Yeah. Yeah. The information environment is just mm-hmm. Like, and, and, and in some ways it makes it like more difficult to mm-hmm. Sort through all the noise, but yeah, we have, we have much faster access to the information that that shows this stuff happening. Yeah. And, so that's I think the philosophy on the crim, cri criminal records is obviously we include it, it's context, it's fact, but it's not the point either. And that also these are in all of these cases with the exception of cases where, maybe somebody pled guilty and served time. And, but in, in those, in most of these cases, they've only been accused of a crime. They have not been they've not gone on trial. They haven't had a chance to. Plead their case or anything like that. So, and there's also a lot of factors why somebody might plead guilty in a case. There's these things called plea deals. So I, I used to cover crime crime and breaking news in Southern California and Long Beach. And that was something I learned a lot was that, it, in a lot of cases, sometimes it doesn't matter what actually happened, it what matters is. If somebody can still go to work and pay and support their family, and if pleading guilty so that they can do community service or only two months versus, years and, and trials and, and legal costs, then they're gonna do that. And and I'm not saying that that's the case in any of these immigration cases, but I'm saying that that is important context for how our justice system works. And, and back to your comment about how, journalists have the tendency to just take the official line, like to talk to quote unquote officials, police officers, spokesmen directors, the people who hold the power and say, Hey, what is happening here? And then they say, this is what's happening, and we're supposed to take that as fact and not. Like, we're supposed to take that as fact, double check it probably, but say like, okay, cool. Publish, that, that's the traditional journalism sense, but our approach is different or we start with people who are on the ground, literally. Yeah. And I think it's important to, to at least record mm-hmm. That side of the story and trust it just as much as you do mm-hmm. The official sources. Yeah. And I think, we've always been clear that our bias as community mm-hmm. Like, all, all journalists are biased and mm-hmm. We're, we're open about what ours is. Yeah. And I think that that's about as good as you can get right now. Like, I don't think that we should, in my personal opinion, I don't think we should. Shy away from just being open about what our biases are. Yeah. So let's we only have about five minutes left, but do you wanna chat about the local government and community reactions to all this, it zooming out from the specific cases and, and but not so far, so several things have happened mm-hmm. Locally Aaron Sellers wrote a story mm-hmm. Several weeks ago about how this Spokane City Council mm-hmm. Had drafted a resolution and this was like, this was an action that was like really heavily advocated for mm-hmm. By LES Jennifer Mac's organization. And that's Latinos in Spokane. Yes. And the city council drafted this res resolution that said, just like reaffirming spokane's and, and this to be clear, like this resolution doesn't actually do anything. Mm-hmm. It just says we're gonna follow Washington state law. Mm-hmm. It doesn't change the way that they operate at all. Following Washington State law that says that local law enforcement agencies can't help federal officials enforce immigration law. Mm-hmm. And I think people saw that as a moment of solidarity. Mm-hmm. And a lot of folks showed up to that meeting who were I, I think that it, it was, it was controversial. Mm-hmm. I, I think that like a lot of folks really appreciated that. By contrast Spokane Valley drafted and passed a resolution saying like stating that Spokane Valley is not a sanctuary city. Mm-hmm. And that, even though they're going to follow Washington State law, they don't like that very much, and they wish, they wish that law didn't exist. This was drafted by Jessica Jaeger who was she, she was moms for Liberty. Yeah. She founded the, the local Moms for Liberty chapter. Okay. Which is like a, it's a parents' rights group. Mm-hmm. It's pretty focused on like trans issues in schools. Specifically they don't like, want children to have gender affirming care. Mm-hmm. And a lot of people showed up to that meeting as well. Mm-hmm. And they were opposed to the resolution? Most of them were. Yeah. There were, I think there were 31 people who commented and two of them supported the resolution. Yeah. And then another, another kind of touch point that, that I think illustrates the way that folks in the Inland Northwest feel about immigration issues is on mayday, there was a march mm-hmm. Through downtown Spokane. It stopped at the Federal courthouse, the sheriff's office, and the ice detention center. Mm-hmm. And about 2000 people showed up to it. Mm-hmm. And there were no counter protestors. Mm-hmm. They were all there in support of the, it was May mayday is like a labor related holiday. Mm-hmm. But I think. A lot, a lot of people see immigrants as laborers and see those issues as, as intersecting. And people were there, people showed up for, specifically for, to support immigrant rights. Mm-hmm. And I talked to a lot of people who found hope in that. Mm-hmm. So that was, I, I think e everything that I've seen mm-hmm. In the local community and the way that the political culture is here suggests that Spokane Heights really support mm-hmm. The immigrant community, or at least the ones who don't, are pretty quiet about it. Yeah. I haven't, I haven't seen those folks out. They, they, they're, they're out there. They're, yeah. Yeah, they're out there, but I haven't seen much from 'em. Yeah. If you wanna talk to us though, we are available. And speaking of which it's about our time this week. So if you have questions about local government or if you're wondering to who to complain about. To complain to about an is issue in your neighborhood. Wondering which agency governs certain things, wondering why something is happening or how much it costs. And if you are against immigrants having due process email us at free range@ks.org with your questions and we'll try to answer them next week. Free Range is a weekly news and public affairs program presented by Range Media and produced by Range Media and KYRS Community Radio, thanks. That's it for today. Bye everyone.