00:02 - Jess White (Host)

Hey, Tracey, thank you so much for being on our podcast, the Networking Spark. Really excited to have you as here as being a member of Spark, yourself Platinum Spark member. You obviously take networking seriously. Tell us a little bit about you and what you do and who you serve.

00:24 - Tracey Taylor (Guest)

So, yeah, I'm really excited to be part of Spark because networking is something that I really love and I actually my. My role, I suppose, is something that I love and that is talking to people and helping people to understand how their hormones can influence their financial behaviour, and that is particularly in the stage of perimenopause and beyond. But that can impact all areas of your life, particularly as a female. I think there's three times in your life when hormones are mostly affected and that can be from puberty I call them the three Ps, so puberty, pregnancy and some of us don't go down that route but then perimenopause. So I really guide women, particularly professional women and entrepreneurs, to really understand how those hormones can impact their financial behaviour. And I sort of, if I look at my background, do you want me to start and talk to you about how I got to where I am today?

01:23 - Jess White (Host)

Why not Tell us your journey, Tracey?

01:26 - Tracey Taylor (Guest)

So I've been an entrepreneur I think probably now gosh showing my age, but about 30 years and I started off. I've been running businesses from fitness, media, events, and the past decade has been in financial services. So my husband and I run an accountancy practice and he's the chartered accountant but I'm a certified protection advisor. So we've been running that together and a few years ago we had two children, both at private schools. A very successful business, you know. Life was really good and then covid hit and there was a lot of financial overwhelm. I think we spoke to our accountancy clients. We've got about 300 of them. We probably spoke to more of them within that sort of six month period than we've ever done before, helping them with furlough etc. And obviously and obviously with schooling homeschooling. I don't know if you've got children that you were trying to homeschool at that time. It's a really challenging time and on top of that, I just felt I couldn't recognise myself because I was used to being a mum and juggling things, really social, able to run the business and do everything.

02:48 - Jess White (Host)

So would you say it was a really stressful time for you during COVID.

02:52 - Tracey Taylor (Guest)

I think COVID was the start for me, the start of this financial overwhelm and start of getting stressed and not feeling in control and that uncertainty about what would happen in the future. And then I started to feel my periods weren't as regular as they were before. I was getting stressed more, I was crying all the time and I just felt I couldn't recognise myself. And at the time my son was doing his GCSEs as well and we had embarked on this massive extension on our house, so we were mortgaged to the hilt and that meant that financially, you know, we were always stressed about it and it really was a time of overwhelm and I just felt that I wasn't myself. I felt very stressed and I had this irrational fear. For example, I didn't like driving at night. Um, I would feel dizzy. I actually collapsed and my husband called the ambulance and they transferred me to A&E and because it was time of Covid, I was there all alone, having anxiety and feeling this dizziness, and I was there for 12 hours on my own and they couldn't work out what was wrong with me. I was really in turmoil. I couldn't put my finger on what was wrong and my mood swings were all over the place. One. One minute I was fine and the next minute I physically could not get out of bed. I wasn't even able to able to take my daughter to school, let alone work. So it was a time where both I think I questioned my ability. I felt like a burden to my family, I could feel my life slipping away from me and I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression and sent to the priory actually the one down the road at Hayes Grove, actually the one down the road at Hayes Grove. And I never felt that way before and I don't know if I've told you this, jess, but 18 years ago, when I was pregnant with my son, I had a brain tumour and I survived the brain tumour and all of that and having a newborn baby and brain tumour the best and worst thing in your life and I survived that.

05:26

But this period was worse. I just couldn't understand why I was feeling this way. The GP couldn't understand it, the psychiatrist at the priory couldn't understand it. Did it scare you? It really scared me, yeah, and I just felt I was a burden and no one could work out what was wrong and I just couldn't put my finger on how to get better. And there was one point where I just thought I have two choices I can sink or swim, and I chose swim because I wanted to see my children grow up. I wanted to have an opportunity to build my life back again, so I decided to focus on my personal development. I read books, listened to podcasts and I went to various therapies, and the one book that really changed my life was Dabina McCall's Menopausing. Have you read it?

06:30 - Jess White (Host)

I haven't personally, no, but I know it's affected many and she, in my eyes, started the movement and the educating of menopause and started a real movement within a few years ago and since then there's been a lot more awareness yes, I mean this book.

06:49 - Tracey Taylor (Guest)

So I read the book and I realised that I had 80%, over 80%, of the symptoms of the menopause. So I was 50 at the time. My periods were irregular, I had dizziness, I had anxiety, I had weight gain, mood swings, brain fog, memory loss and all of these things I thought I've been suffering for the last 11 months. I haven't worked for eight and I went to the GP and I said could this be the menopause? And she tried various antidepressants. None of them were working, hadn't worked to send me to the priory, and so she said well, we can try HRT. And within two weeks I was functioning again that must have been a big relief.

07:40

Yes, I mean just unbelievable. I mean I literally could not physically get out of bed and all of a sudden I was able to take my daughter to school, I was able to cook meals for my family and nobody should have to go through that. Nobody should sit in A&E for 12 hours. No husband or partner should have to section their wife for menopausal imbalances.

08:09 - Jess White (Host)

Is that?

08:09 - Tracey Taylor (Guest)

what happened?

08:10 - Jess White (Host)

Yeah.

08:11 - Tracey Taylor (Guest)

You were sectioned. I was sectioned, yes, wow, so that shouldn't happen. And yes, davina McCall has done amazing things, but it's still happening. Um, I remember talking to my nan and she said, with menopause that they just used to send you to the loony bin. Yeah, and that's what they did to me.

08:32 - Jess White (Host)

Yeah, and I don't want that to happen to anybody else would you mind going into that in a bit more detail, because you never know who you're going to be helping. Who's listening? I know it's probably a painful experience to go back to, but what happens when your husband decided he had to take that step?

08:54 - Tracey Taylor (Guest)

which is huge. So I mean, if I go back to not being able to get out of bed, bearing in mind that I've run various businesses, I've been a mum and I've been able to do everything, because we're from the generation that women can have it all and I physically couldn't get out of bed. My husband dragged me to the doctors, couldn't open my eyes and I was just sleepy all the time. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, couldn't sleep properly. I would sleep on the sofa because I just wasn't sleeping properly, which then had the knock-on effect.

09:34

But I think the main problem for me was this anxiety, this sort of irrational anxiety that I'd never had before. As I said, I didn't like driving at night or I really used to catastrophize situations. So, for example, my son went out with some friends at the end of term. My son he was 16 at the time he went out with friends to Bluewater and he wasn't back on time and I thought, oh my God, something's happened and I just catastrophised things. And it was this irrational fear that I just couldn't put my finger on. And it got to the stage where my husband was saying to me what can I do? And I didn't know what to to do? The doctors didn't know. And I remember having a conversation with a psychiatrist and actually it was my mum that said to me are you sure it's not the change? Because I was 50, no doctors asked me about my periods at all. And I spoke to the psychiatrist and I said you know, could it be the menopause? First of all he said I was too young at 50.

10:49

And secondly he said well, if you want to go down that route, I'm a psychiatrist and I specialise in the brain and you need to go back to your GP to get them to do do those tests so they don't look at people holistically. Yeah, which is so just completely yeah, and then he sent me to to a heart specialist to try and work out why I was. Was um having such negative effects with?

11:18 - Jess White (Host)

the anxiety, wasn't it?

11:19 - Tracey Taylor (Guest)

well, it was. It was my body telling me that I didn't need antidepressants.

11:27 - Jess White (Host)

Because generally that is still. Unfortunately these days that is still the case. You go to a professional healthcare person and still they're dishing out medication rather than looking at the person holistically and trying to find the solution. The first step is just medication. Just take a pill.

11:52 - Tracey Taylor (Guest)

Yes, and that's quite scary, particularly having it. If you're going to a doctor with your symptoms and they're doing all the scary tests like brain scans, heart scans, and they're not finding anything, you do start to think the worst and you think what's wrong with me? Why can't you know? Why can't the specialist help? And really I think people need to be aware of these symptoms and also be aware that there is help out there and that you can help yourself, because if you arm yourself with information about the symptoms of the menopause, you can then go to the GP, like I did, and say look, these are the symptoms. I've read the book with Trevina McCall. Could I try HRT now? Hrt is one of the tools that you can use to get through the menopause, but people also need to realise that there's lots of coaches out there that specialise in it.

12:55

And for me, I went on various therapies. So I did CBT, I did ACT, which is the acceptance commitment therapy. I went to counselling and there was one therapy that really resonated me. I tried all these therapies and they didn't help very much. The government at the moment are saying that menopausal women should consider a CBT rather than HRT, which is the medication and it can be one of the tools, but it can't replace it. It's a bit like having a broken leg and saying, well, I'm going to talk to my leg to make it get better. You know, we have a hormone deficiency. We need to replace the hormones or work out ways to actually improve the um, the way that we think and our behaviour um.

13:56 - Jess White (Host)

What's your advice to anyone going through menopause or andropause for for for men? Um in techniques and healthy habits that they can bring in from day to day to help them.

14:11 - Tracey Taylor (Guest)

I think it's the education really. So you need to educate yourself on the symptoms of the menopause, journal it and write down the changes that are happening in your body. And the thing is, with particularly perimenopause, the hormones are all over the place. So one day you might feel really anxious and the next day you may not feel so anxious, you might feel normal again. But because the hormones are up and down, so anxious you might feel, you know, normal again. But because the hormones are up and down. But particularly you mentioned andropause and if I can just explain the difference between the two.

14:43

So menopause is a decline in hormones and that is, for women, is oestrogen, progesterone and testosterone. We also have testosterone in our bodies, which a lot of women find you know quite. They question it and think, oh, that's, I didn't know that. And with men, not so severe, but there is a decline in hormones after you hit 40. And you go down, and that is to testosterone, for men mainly, but also oestestrogen. So we both have oestrogen in our bodies and oestrogen is the main hormone that impacts our brain. So I consider it to be the ceos of our bodies, whether you're male or whether you're female.

15:31

Now, normally for men we used to call it the midlife crisis, where the men would go off and buy a sports car or go marry somebody 20 years younger than themselves. I'm not endorsing that, of course, but it's less severe with men. But we have to be aware that actually those symptoms and they're very similar so they might be tired all the time. Men also might have a little bit of sadness, might not feel so happy all the time. They can develop breasts sometimes, which I know some men would definitely not want, but they need to be aware of these symptoms so you can be armed when you go to the GP. And the other thing, I think, is to find a therapy that really works for you and then, once you've found that therapy, find a therapist or coach that you have that sort of connection with.

16:30

So for me that was financial therapy and it's not very common in the UK, it's very popular in America and I found a financial therapist. She did an article actually in Cosmo and she was talking about financial stresses and how financial stresses are impacted by emotions and how money is really emotional and how you can actually change your money mindset to get through the stresses in life. Now that can be for any life stage, but particularly for me, I realised that my hormones were impacting my financial behaviour and the way that I felt about money. And because at that time we had that financial shock of COVID and because our businesses were being impacted financially, I had two children at private school and also wasn't able to work for eight months Plus on top of that we had this massive extension. So we were mortgaged to the hilt and if you think about the time of perimenopause particularly, there's a lot of overwhelm financially.

17:40

So the average age is 51 for females to go through menopause, which is when your periods completely stop for at least 12 months or more, and then at that stage, if you imagine, 80% of menopausal women are working.

17:56

So you're worried about your own retirement in terms of your finances, and then you've potentially got children, teenagers, going to university, setting up their own homes or even getting their own jobs. There's a lot more young people living at home now, so there's a lot of financial overwhelm there. People living at home now, so there's a lot of financial overwhelm there. And then you're sandwiched to the other end of the scale to elderly parents having to need their help financially putting them into a home which is so costly. I was talking to a lady the other day and it was like eight thousand pounds a week to send their parents. So there's a lot of financial overwhelm. And if you imagine that overwhelm, combine it with hormones, mood swings and sleep deprivation. It's a really powerful concoction and I'm the only expert that really links the two together, between the hormones and how it impacts your financial behaviour.

18:58 - Jess White (Host)

Cool. So say for, for instance, there's somebody listening that feels like they have a money block or they, you know, they get money in and then it goes and then they feel a lack how would you advise them to create a money mindset?

19:19 - Tracey Taylor (Guest)

That's a very good question and a lot of people come to me saying I'm never going to have enough money to retire or I'm never going to have enough money, you know, to go on holiday, and it's the language that we use and it's reframing that language. So, for example, I'm never going to have enough money to retire if we just tweak that language to saying I'm going to put small things in place to have a good retirement. I often ask people what their memories, their first memories, memories of money were. And if their parents said things like money doesn't grow on trees, or we don't spend money like that, or we don't deserve money like that, that's all coming from a place of scarcity and we want to really be able to look at things in a place of abundance. So I talk about the brain and not to give too much of a biology lesson, but I talk about having a survived brain and having a thrived brain. And this is particularly important when it comes to money, because everyone's relationship with money is unique and it isn't about having lots of money, it's about actually having a good relationship with money, living within your means and being comfortable planning for the future. So when we talk about thrive brain and survive brain. If you think about when you were born and a baby has a thrive brain, very curious, very positive, full of love.

21:01

And then as we grow up, particularly in the western world, we have messages of negativity there's, we're more stressed than ever before and we have this fear and we have this anxiety about the future and it's sort of inbuilt in us. So when we have a problem so I describe it sort of putting your hand on a hot stove you put your hand on the hot stove, you quickly take it off. That sort of negativity can be positive. But if you hold your hand on the hot stove for any length of time, it's going to do some more damage to your hand on the hot stove. For any length of time it's going to do some more damage to your hand. So if you have this survive brain and this negativity throughout your life, then that's going to impact you. So I talk to people and I get them to actually change the way that they think and to intercept those negative thoughts. Now, you're always going to get negative thoughts, but it's that holding your hand on the hot stove, you don't have to do it for too long so you can intercept it by training your brain and rewiring your brain.

22:10

And when I work with clients I love acronyms, do you like acronyyms? So I have an acronym of my name and my name's Tracey. But my husband says to me thank goodness your name wasn't Josephine or Elizabeth, because it's only seven letters. So the T stands for transform. You need to transform your money mindset and I find it so rewarding working with clients when I see that transformation, not only alleviating their menopause symptoms but in their money habits, and that has an impact on both their professional and also personal lives. So that's the T transform your money mindset. And I can help you to do that.

22:53

The R is reviewing and rewiring your brain by doing regular exercise so you can intercept that negativity and really understand your relationship with money. So if there was talk at home by money not growing on trees money doesn't grow on trees we would reframe that language and rewire your brain to actually work out and be grateful for what you currently have. Often people think, oh, I'll be happy when this happens, and I work with a lot of people that I work with particularly successful people. They say they've said in their 20s I'll be happy when I've paid off the mortgage or when I've hit my first million. But then when they get there, they're sort of, oh I'm, I didn't feel the way I thought I would, so then say, oh well, I'll be happy when I hit my second million.

23:50

So it's really important to rewire your brain and really realise what you've got and be grateful for that. So that's the R. The A is align your values and your goals. A lot of people don't have goals. I talk to ladies and because as women, we just keep going every day. We don't put anyone else first, anyone else first. We don't think about the future, necessarily about ourselves, and it's about asking yourself a question and what does retirement look like for?

24:25

you or what does the prosperous menopause look like for you? And then we work out if those goals align with your values, and again it's digging deep into those values themselves. And then the c is connect, connecting with people. And, like Davina, she's written this book, so people are talking about it. Talking about there's two to do.

24:51

Two taboo subjects that I work on every day is money and menopause. We never talk about money Nobody, really. Very rarely do you ask someone what they earn. We don't learn about it at school. And it's the same with the menopause. It's always sort of pushed under the carpet. Or you have people at work that just you know particularly males, because they don't understand it say, well, it's just menopause, just get on with it. So we need to understand it and connect with people so that people share their stories and I'm sharing my story so that somebody listening can say, oh, that's me, or I can prepare for it, so that that isn't me. And if I can help at least one person, then that would really be my legacy really, just to help people to understand it and have awareness.

25:50 - Jess White (Host)

I was going to ask you about that. What legacy do you want to leave? How long have you been going forward, so people know you as Men? Oh, money, yes. So do you want to talk us through a little bit about the name, how long you've been going for and what impression, what are your aims by doing what you're doing? How do you want to leave a legacy through doing the work that you do?

26:16 - Tracey Taylor (Guest)

So because I had such a debilitating time with perimenopause, I decided that once I started to work on my personal development and get better, I decided to start writing a book because I wanted to help people so that no one had to go through what I did. And I think what I realised was that my financial background and because of our financial shock at that particular time, there was the link between the two and I started the business MenoMoney, because it really looks at how menopause can influence your hormones and how that can influence your mindset. So when I work work with I've worked some incredible people when I work with them, I look at the brain and getting them to understand the brain. I then look at the hormones and, if you have fluctuating hormones, how that can impact the brain. And then my thing is about mindset and I think throughout life stages, if you have the right mindset and a positive mindset, then you can get through anything. So by changing our mindset, you can look at things as opportunities rather than failures or negative things.

27:37

And then I put that together with working out their financial behaviour and how that financial behaviour is impacting their mindset and vice versa. And then, as we know, with perimenopause and menopause, the body changes, the body image changes. You might put on weight, you may have dry skin and that can impact your self-esteem and your confidence. So I work with women to help them to have their career trajectory so that that isn't impacted by the symptoms of the menopause, and and really to try and get them to work on themselves, because this is something and yes, hrt is one of the toolboxes, but really your brain is the thing that you can rewire, you can work on and you can really really help yourself through all, all of life stages, but particularly in perimenopause and beyond and the key is is to get rid of the stress right, to develop techniques to release stress and, potentially, your health.

28:47 - Jess White (Host)

What you do, what you're eating, what you're doing for exercise, so what, what's your guidance? Um, on the you know, do you do, do you guide just purely on the financial side or do you look at the whole person and their lifestyle?

29:02 - Tracey Taylor (Guest)

I mean because of my background and having that psychiatrist say to me you need to go to the GP if you want to consider things like your hormones. I like to look at it holistically. So I like to look at the brain and work out why these hormones are actually changing and therefore it links the two together with the financial side and your money mindset and then also your brain. And it's more about doing exercises that can retrain your brain to control that negative thought so that it isn't. It's we're all going to get negative thoughts and our brains will chatter all the time, but it's the ability to intercept those thoughts so that it doesn't impact you to the point that it did for me and it's debilitating. So I work with particularly women, but also some men, because we've talked about the andropause and the symptoms of those, of how they can really thrive. So I retrain the brain to look at the thrive side, the positive side. So how can we have more positive thoughts? And I know that doesn't sound very easy, but if you train your brain to calm it in situations very similar you do with yoga, then you can actually get through it. So you have those thoughts and with a negative thought, you have two choices.

30:39

Well, in probably three choices.

30:40

Choose to let yourself go further into the hole which is the survive brain, or you can use your thrive brain to accept it and just put it behind you, or you can look at it as an opportunity, and you can look at it and I I sort of say to people these challenges that you're facing if you can think of those as being a gift.

31:02

So for me, you know, I was sent to um, to the Priory Psychiatric Ward, which was terrible, but I've now turned it into an opportunity and I'm now running a business and I'm helping, and I'm now running a business and I'm helping women to not get to that stage and helping women alleviate their menopause symptoms. But more importantly and I think it's the missing piece I'm teaching them how to actually have a positive mindset and how to consider their money mindset and how you know things from their past that they might be taking through to their future. So if their parents taught them I mean, we learn a lot from parents about money but if they taught them to be thinking of money as a place of scarcity, they might not believe that they deserve to be successful. So it's really analysing what you feel success is.

32:01 - Jess White (Host)

Yeah, absolutely, and that's different for everybody. In terms of starting a business and getting your message out there. How important do you think it is to be networking on a regular basis, and do you have experience of in and preference of, in-person and online networking? What are your experiences and thoughts about?

32:25 - Tracey Taylor (Guest)

it. So I've been running a business and entrepreneur for about 30 years, so 30 years ago it wasn't the online. I think when I first started didn't even have a mobile phone. So we're talking about, but I still think, even 30 years on, that in person still hasn't lost its lustre, really, and I think it's still crucial to have that in person because that's that's connection and it's really having that connection, which is key. And what networking does. It's not just about the people that you meet, it's really having that connection, which is key.

32:59

And what networking does. It's not just about the people that you meet, it's about the people that those people might know, and it's also talking about your business and talking to other people about it will really get you to understand your business and how you can help people and how you can target people and it's getting that advice. But I think with the virtual thing, that's convenient, so you can, you can do the networking with. So I think you need to do both. But I think networking is really powerful and I really enjoy it because I just I just see it as a social thing and it's not really working for me, but it's getting the message out there and I think it's absolutely key for new businesses and for businesses that are growing. What do you mean by?

33:48

it's not working for you?

33:50 - Jess White (Host)

no, I don't consider it to be working oh, going to work, going to work, right, yes, got it. Okay, yeah, I just. But it is, it's fun, isn't it? But then, if you go to the right company, then it's fun and it's work at the same time. But when? It doesn't feel like work, then that's fantastic right yeah, and also that's running a business, isn't it?

34:09 - Tracey Taylor (Guest)

if you're doing something that doesn't feel like work, and having a business like mine where I'm helping people and I'm also helping myself, because every day I'm learning new techniques, learning new things about the brain, and I'm reading books my husband at night, you know I always read a book before not a whole book, but read before I go to bed and listening to audio books, always learning. Yeah, I'm always learning new things, meeting new people and experiencing things, and I think the networking clubs I know particularly spark for me. That's really taken my business to the next level.

34:51 - Jess White (Host)

I mean now I'm doing my first podcast and you're about to have a speaking opportunity at an event as well. Yes, got you speaking, which is super and just. You never know when you meet someone, you know what, what kind of opportunities and doors will open up, right, so it's like it's a good adventure, yes, and you never know who those people will know exactly.

35:13 - Tracey Taylor (Guest)

You know you might talk to a nurse, for example, or and she might, she might know a big business owner who wants me to go and do a speech. So you just never know you just never know who you're going to meet wonderful thanks, Tracey.

35:28 - Jess White (Host)

We are nearly out of time, but I'd still like to ask you a question what's more important to you, money or fulfilment?

35:38 - Tracey Taylor (Guest)

I don't think that there's a one answer for that, because in the Western world particularly, you know money is very important because we can't live without it. But interestingly, with money it flows through different people some. Some people have it flowing like a river, some people would be like a desert with money, and the way that we feel about money and the way that we deal with it is really unique. But you really do need money to survive. But fulfilment is more about thriving, and I think to feel fulfilled then that is more about thriving, and I think to feel fulfilled then that is more about your mindset and that's that's why I think those two things link together. So to feel fulfilled, you do need some form of money, but that fulfilment is down to your brain and how you are actually thinking and how your brain is wired, to whether and as I spoke about those two sides of the brain whether you've got a mindset to survive or to thrive, and then that will be to do with your fulfilment.

36:52 - Jess White (Host)

Survive or thrive. I love it, yeah, and I like the holistic view on that as well. So, wrapping up now, Tracey, what would be your top tips to people listening into this podcast in terms of gaining the money mindset dealing with hormones? If you just give some top short tips to those people, what would they be? Your top five tips?

37:15 - Tracey Taylor (Guest)

Let's say Top five tips, your top five tips, let's say Top five tips. Okay, well, I think, first of all, you need to consider how, and actually educate yourself onto how your brain is actually influencing your daily life. Sure, education and then. So that's education. And also to ask for help. There are experts out there. So if you can ask for help, you don't have to do this on your own, and I think, if you need help, feel free to actually ask for it. So, education, and then that leads on to connecting to various people so that you can get the support, because sharing is caring and you will learn so much from people in terms of their experiences.

38:03

The third one is to really have some goals. Ask yourself, you know, what does retirement look like? Or what does a prosperous menopause look like? Or what does a successful business look like for you, like, or what? What does a successful business look like for you? And to ask those questions. If you keep asking why, you'll really dig deep into your successes and if you then consider that as your mindset and you have to say you have a mindset to thrive rather than just survive. And I think the last one is, which actually is part of my Tracey, which is the why, which is you, and I think, if we can actually focus on self-care, you are the most important thing. You can make the changes in your life to actually improve your own mindset, improve your position financially and also to improve your business. So you are the most important person beautiful, amazing tips.

39:05 - Jess White (Host)

Thank you so much for coming on the networking spark podcast. I really feel like you're out there to spread your message to those that really need it, and the biggest standout for me there was to ask for help rather than keeping it inside and just dealing with it. You know a lot of people just try and deal with it because they don't understand it, they haven't got the education on it perhaps, or they're just scared of talking about it. So by you speaking about it publicly on the podcast events, in networking events, you never know who you're going to be helping. They might not say it, but you never know. So thank you, so so much, Tracey, from my heart to yours. Thanks, you're welcome.

Thank you, Jess.