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One thing that I learned is being okay with uncomfortable conversations and being okay with them not liking me in the moment and them understanding that yeah, you might not like me right now, but you're going to love me when it's all said and done.

Daniel Harris is entering his second season as the head men's basketball coach at Davison Elkins College and his fourth overall with the program in 2025 26.

He guided the program to its fourth consecutive Mountain East Conference tournament appearance where Danny earned a 6361 first round victory over ninth seeded Wheeling.

Prior to Davis and Elkins, Harris served as the Director of Basketball Operations under Head Coach Lenny Acuff at Lipscomb University for two seasons.

He also served as a graduate assistant at Jacksonville University.

Harris gained additional experience as a recruiting coordinator with Hoop Group in Reading, Pennsylvania.

As a player, Harris began his collegiate career at Hillsborough Community College where he was a team captain, team MVP and recipient of the Coaches Award.

He then transferred to Division 1 Quinnipiac University where he started 50 games, shot over 40% from three point range and earned team MVP honors as a junior.

He was a team captain as a senior and a nominee for the NABC All State Good Works Team.

Harris was also active in student leadership, serving on Quinnipiac Student Athlete Advisory Committee.

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Grab a pen and some paper before you listen to this episode with Daniel Harris, men's basketball head coach at Davis and Elkins College.

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads podcast.

It's Mike Cleansing here without my co host Jason Sunkel this morning.

But I am pleased to be joined by Daniel Harris, men's head basketball coach at Davis and Elkins College.

Daniel, welcome to the Hoop Heads pod.

Hey, thank you, Mike.

I really appreciate it.

Excited to be on and excited to chat and get to know each other.

Absolutely excited to have you on.

Looking forward to diving into all of the things that you've been able to do in your career thus far.

I want to start by going back in time to when you were a kid.

Tell me a little bit about your first experiences with the game of basketball.

What do you remember?

What made you fall in love with it?

Yeah, man, basketball has been in my genes, in my blood I guess since I was two years old.

I was a big MJ fan, a big Michael Jordan fan.

I would have my little MJ Jordan jersey on, running around the living room with the basketball at my grandparents house and just kind of fell in love with the game early.

And it's kind of just been my life since now that I'm 30 and it's been great.

Just where it's taken me, the people I've met.

When I started again two years old playing, you know, in the living room and you know, my parents always telling me I just always want to be like Mike and watching.

I would go watch a couple of games, you know, the 98 series in Utah and just oh, Michael Jordan fell outfall and it had the, the sweat bands and everything.

So I guess that was the start of the inspiration, you know, from my childhood standpoint.

And it just kind of grew and was blessed enough to, you know, have some really good mentors with my father as well.

Just.

Well that just really, you know, furthered my love for the game he played in high school and it was a really good athlete.

It just kind of taught me as well.

And again, like I said, I had really good mentors through high school and so forth.

So I guess that's just how it started and it just kind of grew into now being a head basketball coach.

Starting with MJ is always a good place to start.

It's a good, that's a good way to butter me up too.

So anybody who listens to the POD knows I'm a Michael Jordan guy, so that's a great.

That's a great way for us to get.

Get started.

There's no.

There's no better guy to.

To emulate.

When you think about the total package of what it means to be a great basketball player, it's just.

I mean, there's.

There's nothing better than MJ in every sense.

The word from a skill standpoint, athleticism, mental toughness.

I mean, everything that you would want in a player, obviously Jordan has it.

So it's a good place to start.

Yeah.

And then secondly, going and having your dad be an influence on you.

I know that a lot of people have that story, right, of.

Of their parents, their father in particular, in a lot of cases, having that influence.

So when you think about the influence that your dad had on you, first as a player, and then obviously, I'm sure some of the things that he taught you, whether it was on or off the court, continue to influence you as a coach today.

So when you think about that impact that your dad had on you, what's one or two things that you still carry with you today that you feel like is reflective of the lessons that your dad taught you when you were a kid?

Yeah, I think the first thing to start off with, with my father, he took me in and I was at 2 years old.

He's my step.

My stepfather.

And, you know, he's.

He's by far the best father figure that I could ask for.

And, um, you know, I think the biggest lesson that I learned through my career, through basketball and just from him is just like, just giving back and loving, no matter who the person is, where they come from.

He didn't have to take me in and really show me how to be a man and just mold me to who I am.

So I'm grateful for that, and I'm blessed to have somebody that wanted to step into that, into that father role.

And so my father, he.

He's.

He's one of the most inspirational guys.

I think I get inspirational tweets and quotes and things every single day.

He sends it to our family, in our family group chat to me and my brother, and just, you know, the ability just again, to.

To give back love, love on people, you know, just be a kind person.

I think that's.

That's why I became a.

A basketball coach in my family.

I was just talking about this the other day.

Teaching is in our genes.

It started off on my mom's side, my great grandmother and great grandfather.

One was a Principal, and one was a teacher in the same school.

And then my grandmother, actually, she's a principal.

And then my grandfather on my mom's side is a pastor.

You know, so teaching has just kind of been in our blood.

And so I guess when you look at, you know, the teaching aspect on my mom's side and then just the love of basketball just kind of blended it together and to make a head coach in me, so just being able to teach the game of basketball life lessons to these young men as well as, you know, you know, just giving back to the community as well.

So just kind of fit in who I've molded over, over these last 30 years with, you know, just not just from my.

My father, but just everybody from, you know, down the line of teaching, growing, and just kind of giving back.

It's just kind of been our family.

Our family genes.

So I guess that's just, you know, I'm blessed enough to learn.

To learn all those lessons and just kind of pay it forward to all of our players that have come through Davis and Elkins and through my coaching career.

It's amazing how many people that have teachers or coaches in their family background end up being teachers or coaches themselves.

So my story, similar to yours.

My dad was a professor at Cleveland State, and my mom was an elementary school teacher.

And so actually, when I went to school, I got a business degree, and I got out and I graduated, and I went out on some interviews, and I got offered one job.

And so this was whatever, probably in maybe May or June after I graduated, and they're like, yeah, we want you to report on July 1st to work.

And I remember going home and talking to my mom and dad and being like, they want me to put on a suit and go to work in July.

Like, I mean, I've.

I've never seen anybody do that.

My dad might have taught a summer class or two where he wore shorts down and taught his class or whatever, but I never saw anybody go to work in a suit in July.

And so that was what prompted me.

I'm like, I think I got to go back to school and get my teaching degree and.

And end up doing that, which is what I.

Which is what I did.

But I think when you have education in your background, I think that that that teaching gene sort of gets passed along and.

And obviously, coaching, as we all know, is, if not exactly the same as teaching, it certainly is a form of.

Of teaching, maybe different than what you do in the classroom, but again, in a very, very similar vein.

Tell me a Little bit about your development as a player.

I'm thinking as you get into your middle school, high school years, what are you doing?

What's your plan?

How are you putting together the program for you to get better as a player?

Were you super organized and had, hey, I better do this, this, this, this, or was it more kind of haphazard, I'm getting to the gym, I'm getting my shots up.

Just how did you go about getting better as a player?

Yeah.

So, you know, it's funny, in my whole career and what I wanted to do is to get into coaching.

So me playing basketball was kind of the stepping stone for me to get to where I'm at today in coaching.

I just loved the X's and O's of everything.

So when in middle school, it was funny.

I remember this vividly in middle school I would, I would have plays for my middle school head basketball coach and I we should run these.

And so it started off, you know, there, but you know, once I got to high school, I played for a very, is a hall of fame coach in the Tampa area.

Renardo Garcia, he was my high school coach and very, very good in terms of just skill development, really defensive minded coach and just knew how to get the best out of players.

Coached a lot of great college players that came out of Tampa.

And you know, again, another thing just kind of, and I know this is kind of going off track a little bit.

Just vividly how much I wanted to get into coaching and just use basketball, you know.

You know, in high school, you know, you had your dress like a teacher day or be whatever your profession was.

Well, I dressed like Coach Garcia that I knew I wanted to be a coach.

And so, you know, that's just kind of where it all started.

But you know, you know, for me, you know, I, I, I wasn't MJ.

I wasn't AS6 6.

It wasn't as athletic as MJ, but I knew I could shoot the basketball.

And you know, that was one thing that I, I had, I hang my hat on.

I did a lot of things, you know, in terms of, you know, I did have trainers, you know, to get my, my body right.

I did have, you know, Coach Garcia open the gym for me, you know, to shoot.

But what it really became is because, you know, when you get on the gun and you're shooting, it just became a sanctuary, right?

You just listen to the ball go through the net.

No other problems.

It was just a place for you to get away and just kind of, you know, deep dive into your game.

And.

And so that's kind of how it.

It grew.

You know, I wouldn't say I was just this most always organized.

I get up at 6am or whatever, you know, during that time as a middle school or high school player.

But I definitely put in the time and effort and it allowed me to, you know, be successful by playing basketball.

And, you know, it wasn't an easy journey going through high school.

You know, I wasn't.

And I had.

I had recruitment coming out of high school.

You know, my sophomore and junior year had Division 1 recruitment, mostly because a lot of my teammates were playing at high levels and Coach Garcia was well connected.

And I ended up getting hurt going into my.

At the last.

Going in the playoffs of my junior year, I ended up dislocating my knee.

And, you know, that kind of set me back a little bit from a recruiting standpoint.

You know, had a.

So.

So senior year.

And with that, you know, I. I got down to myself because I wasn't getting the recruitment that I wanted.

You know, I thought my basketball career was over.

You know, I said, man, I put all this time and effort in, you know, the injury kind of set me back.

And that was a hard, a hard moment.

But I'm a true believer and everything happens for a reason.

Um, and, you know, good, bad or indifferent, you know, God kind of just moves you in the right direction, in the right path where he wants you to go.

And, you know, I did.

Like I said, I didn't have much recruitment coming out of high school and going.

Going in my senior year, I actually was going to go to famu, where both my parents went.

I had.

I was about to sign up for housing.

I was about to just go as a regular student.

And Coach Garcia just said, he, like, hey, just go to Hillsborough Community College.

You know, go play open gym.

See what happen.

Um, and crazy enough we were just talking about this together.

You know, I'm on the way, I get in a fender bender.

So I get hit going to the workout, and I'm like, God, I mean, this.

You can't.

You can't make this stuff up.

I'm late to the workout, I'm late to the pickup.

I tell the coach I said, hey, I got an accident, but I'll be there 20 minutes later.

Got there and crazy enough, threw my shoes on and just played, right.

I didn't have any.

I was just.

Just playing, just saying, you know what?

Whatever happens, happens.

And played really well in the open gym.

And the coach looked at me, he's like, I'll just give you a full ride to Hillsburg Community College.

And I. I was just so excited about that.

And he gave it to me right on the spot.

And that kind of changed my trajectory again, you know, again, it wasn't.

It wasn't clean cut, but, you know, again, I was blessed enough to get that opportunity to go play at a really good community college with Coach Worlds.

I think the one thing that I've had really good coaches, not just on the basketball side of things, but just really good men that taught me, you know, different things along the way.

And Coach Worlds was a really, really good inspiration to me in my coaching world and also my basketball world as well.

And I was blessed enough to, you know, do really well in those two years at Hillsborough Community College and was able to go play Division 1.

So, again, it wasn't the normal way that most people would say, but again, I think God has a way of just putting you in the right places and putting in the right path to your destiny, especially if you really stick your stay to it and don't get down on yourself, go through some adversity.

Life, it's never easy.

It's never a straight path.

It's always some ups and downs and some mountains and some valleys.

You just got to keep going through it.

But, yeah, like I said it, I'm blessed.

And again, it's not.

It's never going to be easy.

And I know I got a long way ahead of me now as a head coach now, because I'm sure the road is going to be ups and downs as well, so.

Well, Daniel, I always ask some version of this question, but I already know the answer based on what you've just said.

And the question that I always like to ask is, did you see yourself as being a coach from the time you were very young as a player?

And obviously the answer for you is yes.

I always say there's kind of like two paths.

There's somebody like you who's given plays to your middle school coach and saying, hey, coach, we should do this, and thinking like a coach almost from the time you start playing.

And then there's other guys who just are focused on, I'm just playing, I'm just playing, I'm just playing.

And then all of a sudden they're playing career ends, and they look around and they're like, okay, I want to stay involved in basketball.

Maybe now that's when I shift my focus to coaching.

So as you're going through your high school experience, your experience, experience at Hillsborough, your Experience at Quinnipiac, Are you having conversations with your coaches?

Not just about, like, hey, what do I have to do?

What's my role?

How are we trying to win?

But on a deeper level in terms of, hey, why are we doing this?

Or what's happening behind the scenes that we're trying to build this.

Other words, are you asking them coaching questions in addition to kind of looking at it as a player?

I think there's yes, yes, and no.

So to start off, you know, again, I. I did want to be a coach.

Coming out in high school, that was a dream that I really wanted to do.

And it's a loaded, loaded question and answer.

So when I actually was recruited out of Hillsborough Community College, the one thing that it wasn't about the facilities, it wasn't about, you know, who was returning or whatever.

It was about one thing.

I said, can you help me get into coaching?

Can you help me?

What's the next step after I give you my two years, who has the most connections in the coaching world to help me build what, you know, build and get as high as I.

As I possibly can?

And so when I was actually recruited, I was recruited by Bethune, Cookman, famu, and of course, Quinnipiac.

I went on visits.

And that was the one thing I said, I don't care about anything else.

What can you do to help me once I graduate?

Get a GA job or whatever.

And Coach Moore than that staff, Coach Moore, Eric Eaton and that whole staff was so well connected.

And Coach Moore is actually.

He was the assistant at UConn.

Well, he's still at UConn with Dan Hurley and just helped me propel my coaching career.

So I kind of tailored all of my recruiting towards coaching.

Right.

And I think that's not.

Most people do that.

Right.

Just because I knew, yeah, I knew that's what I wanted to do.

But, you know, going back to your other, you know, question about, you know, we're having those conversations, I think a lot of that going back to Hillsborough, I kind of know I'm jumping over the place.

But going back to Hillsboro in my freshman year, I actually got hurt again.

I tore some ligaments in my hand, and I was out the entire year.

But what that did was it allowed me to see the other side of coaching, because in high school, you don't really see it, you know.

You know, you don't see it at the college level.

So coach worlds.

And I. I basically became his assistant, you know, for a whole entire year while I was rehabbing my hand and you know, I did stats, I was watching film.

I was doing everything, you know, that really his assistant was doing.

I just became another assistant.

And so when I rehabbed my hand and really the.

Really the thing that when I hurt my hand again my freshman year, I was down.

I didn't think I was really a Division 1 basketball player at the time I went to Hillsborough Community College, I thought I was Maybe a Division 2, maybe Division 3 basketball player.

But I worked my butt off to rehab.

That whole summer, I was going two, three times a day in the gym.

I was helping Coach Rose, you know, with.

You know, with recruiting and doing stuff.

And I basically turned myself back into a Division 1 basketball player that summer, going from my freshman to my sophomore year.

So the cool thing is I got to step out of being a player my freshman year, going into sophomore year, and seeing that coaching world, seeing what the.

Behind the scenes.

And then when I became at Quinnipiac, you know, seeing what it took to be at the Division 1 level as a player, I said, man, I just got to focus in on being as best of a player as I possibly can for Coach Moore because I had to fulfill my duty.

He asked me to do the best I can.

Be on the floor, make shots.

So then when it's my time to ask, hey, how can you help me get into coaching?

He's going to do it, you know, so that was kind of always my.

My.

My thought process is like, hey, we.

This is the.

The relationship.

Here's the agreement.

And so, again, my.

My life has always been, you know, tailored towards coaching, tailored towards getting better, tailored towards just learning the game.

And again, it wasn't conventional.

It wasn't the original way.

And shoot, even me being here wasn't conventional as well.

So, again, I've always been a teacher, always been a coach at heart, and I love every single moment of doing that.

During that freshman experience, what was the piece of coaching, if there was one that you could narrow it down to that?

You were like, man, I love this aspect of coaching because obviously, as you said as a player, right.

You've seen and you've watched your high school coach, you've maybe seen and watched other coaches, you have a feeling, you know, that that's something that you want to go.

You always got the education in your background, but until you really step in and kind of go behind the scenes, nobody really knows for sure all the stuff that goes on, especially at the college level.

Right?

Yeah, I think there's a. Yeah.

Even players.

I know that when I was playing I had the perception of, hey, coaches are showing up at practice at three, coaches are showing up at 2:30 and practice is done at six and I'm taking a shower and they're still hanging around just till I get out of there and then they're going home at 6.

That, that was my perception again as a player.

So what's something that you loved?

Immediately you were like, hey, yeah, this is what I want to do.

Film breakdown, you know, if practices and making, helping give suggestions and learning, you know, again, because I couldn't shoot, I had my right hand, was my shooting hand, so I couldn't really do anything, which is through my left hand.

And so film breakdown was great.

You know, doing stats of practices and stuff like that.

You know, also the recruiting piece of it, you know, I kind of liked.

Coach would always say, hey, go watch this.

You know, give me game film of a high school kid and I'll watch it.

But yeah, he's pretty good.

Or I knew about him because he's the Tampa area.

You know, I just kind of love the film breakdown and the recruiting part of it.

You know, luckily I didn't have to do all the operational stuff because that, nobody likes doing that.

But you know, from a basketball standpoint, you know, everybody loves, you know, breaking down film, you know, scouting reports, you know, watching practices and helping the, you know, for me, when I got hurt, I wanted to give back because as a freshman I couldn't be on the floor.

So might as well, what other way can I, can I benefit or help the program, you know, and help the guys that were on the floor, you know, in practice I still came to practice, I'll run the clock and you know, just seeing everything from a coach, you know, a bird's eye view or coach's view, you know, to help the guys that were on, that were on the floor and still be able to be an impact in the program, even though I wasn't on the floor at that time.

So, you know, and again, you know, coaching is, there's a lot more to coaching than what most people see.

Right?

You know, like you said, it ain't just showing up to practice at 2:30 and getting out of there at 5:30.

It's a full, full 24 hour thing and there's a lot more that goes into coaching and it's, it's really fun.

And again it's, there's, there's just so much to do behind the scenes.

But you know, again, I enjoy every single moment of it and I wouldn't trade it for the world.

You talked a little earlier about just your decision to go to Quinnipiac and how it was based upon the connections and what could eventually happen when you graduated in terms of helping you to get that first coaching job.

So when you get to graduation and now it's time to start looking and figuring out what's going to be next, where are you going to go?

Explain to me how those connections helped you and how you end up at Jacksonville.

Yeah, so, like I had mentioned earlier, you know, I all.

I told all the assistants, hey, this is what I want to do.

And it was a weird time at that time because, you know, we had two really bad seasons when I was at Quinnipiac, and unfortunately, that staff, you know, was let go my senior year, but they still looked out for me, even though they were still looking for jobs themselves.

So what happened was two of my teammates, Aaron Robertson and Ace Robinson, they're both twins.

They were there for two years.

They were freshmen when I came in as a junior, they played at Putnam Science Academy, which is in Connecticut, and I had a car and they wanted to go work a camp, so they used me to get me to go.

They use my car.

They used me and my car to get to go work the camp.

Like, hey, you want to go work this camp at Putnam?

I was like, yeah, why not?

You know, we weren't doing anything this after the year and went up there, helped work the camp, did a really good job with the kids, and Putnam Science staff was there, loved what I did in terms of just, you know, just, you know, coaching and, you know, interacting with the.

With the kids, and so really met with that staff and the Putnam Science guys.

They.

They put my name out there, like, hey, we got a guy that's just finished playing that wants to get.

Be a ga. And within about a week, I had about three or four GA offers from Jacksonville.

Gardner Webb was able to get an interview at Texas Tech with Chris Beard.

I mean, just by doing, you know, just by doing a good job, right?

Not.

Not really knowing those guys, you know, just being myself again.

I knew I wanted to be a coach, so I'm like, man, this is.

This is just me being who I am and able to build that relationship.

So I credit the twins also for using me in my car, you know, to go work that camp.

But, you know, that.

That turned into some GA opportunities, and I got to get to know Dan Barret, who's the assistant coach at Wright State, who was the ga.

The assistant at Jacksonville, and.

And that staff and I was able to work under Tony Jasek and that staff at Jacksonville.

So, you know, and again, even the Quinnipiac guys, you know, really put my name out there for me, you know, and I had a lot of interviews, a lot of different opportunities, but Jacksonville was the perfect place for me because it was closer to home.

You know, Jacksonville and Tampa is like two and a half hours away.

I was back in Florida.

I will be able to be around my family.

And so that's ultimately why I chose Jacksonville.

And again, I was grateful for that opportunity, learned a lot, you know, from that staff, and again, was able to continue to continue my, my career.

So again, unconventional, right?

When you talk about, you know, again, just God, putting you in different places, different situations.

And again, those, the Robinson twins are great people and are really successful.

Just allow me to go work again with them and meeting the Putnam Science staff and kind of blossoming from there.

So, again, very, very unconventional.

And I guess this normally, I guess this is how my, my path has always been since day one.

So, yeah, there's a great lesson in there, Daniel, that has kind of come through in the podcast and other interviews too.

And that's.

And you talked about it like I was just being myself, doing something that I loved, working as hard as I could.

Not with the idea that you were being auditioned for some other job.

Right?

You're just there at the camp, you're doing what you do, you're doing what you love, you're working as hard as you can.

And as a result of that, somebody notices, not because, again, you were trying to put on a show for somebody to try to get a job.

You're just doing what you do.

And yet at the same time, so often I hear those stories that that is what leads to the next opportunity, right?

It's the guys who have one eye out the door that are looking for that next position, and maybe they're not as focused in on what they can do to help.

In your case, what can I do to make this camp the best experience for the kids that are there, or if I'm working on a staff, what can I do to make this experience the best?

How can I help my program?

I can't be worried about what's next.

I got to be worried about what.

What is right in front of me.

And that's definitely a lesson that has come through on the podcast numerous times.

So in that way, it's interesting again that you followed that sort of non traditional path.

But in this instance, it's a case of where, yeah, man, when you're doing your thing and you're doing it well, people are going to notice that, and then that's what leads you to that next opportunity.

And again, as you said, so much of coaching and being able to advance in your career is the people that you know, and they have to know you in a positive way because you've done the things that you're supposed to do wherever you're at, and have gone above and beyond.

And again, that's a great example there that you just shared from.

From your story.

Yeah.

And.

And to be honest, it's a lot of that is just being a good.

A good person and just giving back.

You know, like, even the Robertson twins, like, they were.

They were freshmen, they were from D.C. so they didn't.

Here's a funny story.

They didn't even know how to drive a car.

And I taught them how to drive, right.

And taught them how to do certain things that they just, they.

Because of some family things that they just didn't get taught and just like, hey, I'm just going to be a good teammate, right?

This is just who I am.

I'm going to give back.

And it ended up being paid forward just by, you know, me going to that camp.

Right.

Because they knew that I would do a good job there as well.

So you're right.

I think a lot of times it's just about being a good person, being a good human being, you know, being a servant, leader and just, you know, giving back and not just.

Not just being about yourself.

Because I think at the end of the day, if you're just, you're.

You're serving other people.

And I learned this from Coach A. Cuff, who was also my boss.

If you just serving other people and doing, you know, things for others, you know, everything will end up coming back to you in some type of way.

And I'm a true believer of that.

Get to Jacksonville.

How'd you balance the academic side of getting a master's degree and yet pouring yourself 100% into your passion of coaching and doing all that.

I know when I've talked to other guys that have gone through the route of being a ga, they just talk about, again, the lack of sleep and just the amount of time that they're putting in to make sure they're taking care of their academic side of it, but also putting in all the time and doing the things that we just talked about two minutes ago in terms of giving your all to the program to help it to be successful.

So how'd you navigate that and balance those two things.

Well, the fun, the funny part about Jacksonville is our, my, where I lived was upstairs, so I was always in the office.

It was literally, I worked in the office and we would, you know, come in the office in the, you know, at 8, 8 o' clock in the morning, be there all day and I'll just go straight upstairs.

And sometimes I would just stay in the office to get my schoolwork done.

So I wouldn't go back, go back home until nine, ten o' clock at night.

So that's kind of where I learned my, my work ethic in the coaching world.

And I had again, I was so blessed to have really good mentors and leaders.

The director of operation, director of basketball operations at the time that I was there was Jared Rhodes just kind of showing me the way of, you know, how this coaching world and how you're supposed to conduct yourself, especially at the Division one level.

You know, even the GA that was, we had two gas at the time.

My, my first year there, Bradley Faye, who's actually the director of basketball operations at Appalachian State, again, just showing me the ropes, right?

And then with the balancing the academics, the good part was I didn't have to go to classes all online.

So I could manage, you know, being in the office all day doing my, you know, my classes online, which was, which was nice.

That was a really good perk.

I think it would have been a little bit harder if I had to go to class at, you know, being in person.

But at the end of the day, you know, being a student athlete, you know, you have to time manage, you have to be able to go, you know, know when you're going to class, know when you're, you have your homework done, you know, you have study table, you have practice and all that stuff.

So it was a pretty easy transition.

It just in a different way.

Right.

You know, I just knew I had to go to the office, get my work done and had to, you know, if I wanted to at the time.

I still, I'm a huge video game guy, so I had to cut back on, on playing Fortnite and all that.

Just make sure I get my schoolwork done.

But, you know, just time managing that, you know, those are those lessons that you get taught, you know, throughout those from middle school to high school to college, you know, making sure you're on top of your grades, making sure you're getting everything done, you know, in the right amount of time and things like that.

So again, I think a lot of guys, you know, even I tell Our student athletes now like all the lessons that you're learning, you know, in college right now, a lot in on quite honestly, a lot of times the, the, the content, what you're learning in college you might not even ever use.

But it's the time management is the organization.

Can you get stuff done on time, can you turn in a paper on time?

You know, things like that is those are the lessons that people want to see in the workforce.

And so all those things, you know, kind of came together, you know, as I was a ga, and again, like I said, I was blessed enough to have really good mentors and friends at Jacksonville that really helped me grow into a really good basketball coach.

That's a great lesson to pass along to players.

And it's funny that you just talking about time management that, hey, it's not necessarily always the exact things that you learn right in college in terms of the academic content matter.

Sometimes it's just you do you learn, how do I manage my time?

You learn, how do I navigate this situation?

How do I figure this out?

How do I learn how to learn?

And I had this same exact conversation.

My wife and my youngest daughter, mother two are in college, but my wife, my youngest daughter were sitting at dinner and she was talking, complaining about some math problem or something that she had to try to figure out and whatever.

And we're like, well, yeah, you got to figure out the math problem.

That's a part of it, but it's more of figuring out like, how do I figure out this math problem?

Because you may not have to figure out this exact math problem and whatever your job ends up being, but you're going to have to figure out problems no matter where you are.

And that's what school is all about, is figuring out, hey, how do I do this stuff?

And not how do I do calculus, but how do I figure out how to solve a calculus problem?

What's the process that I go through?

And I think that's the same thing again when you start talking about lessons that you yourself learned going through that GA experience and then things that you're trying to convey to your student athletes now as a head basketball coach, those are all lessons that impact kids long after they're a part of a basketball team.

And you hope that when they get to their work life and their family life, that that's ultimately what ends up having, you know, having a big impact on them.

Do you consider yourself to be a big note taker in terms of as you're going through these experiences?

Are you, how Are you collecting things that are starting to shape who you want to be as a coach and what your philosophies are and thoughts of how you're going to put together a program or how you'd like your teams to play?

Obviously as a ga, you're probably not at that point immediately thinking, I'm going to be a head coach in the next year or two.

But in the back of your mind, right, you've known that this is your career.

You know that at some point you're going to start to head that direction.

So how do you go about, what's your process for kind of keeping things together that you collect along the way in your various experiences?

Yeah.

So one, I want to do a better job of this, of keeping my notes.

You know, I've actually started doing memos in my phone because I hate writing.

Like I physically hate writing something.

So I'd rather like, even in text messages, I'll just say, hey, Siri, send this.

So I've been doing memos and just saying, hey, you know, the daily, you know, memos or my journal of just hey, this is what has gone on today, or whatever, you know, whatever I had to go through, you know, my, my daily journaling, I guess you can say, but just talking to my memos.

But I do, I do need to do a much better job in that, you know, I do have a book of notes, you know, that I've had, you know, from plays, you know, thoughts, you know, or different things of, you know, how I want to build the program, you know, and I have, if you look at my desk right now, there's papers all over the place.

So I got to get a little bit more organized and keeping everything, you know, kind of more organized.

But that, you know, that's, you know, that's one area that I do want to continue to get better at.

But you know, you know, for me, a lot of it is just taking little bits and pieces of all the different people that have been in my life.

From my father, from Coach Garcia, my high school coach, coach worlds, you know, shoot.

My first, my first four, my first four coaches were all defensive minded coaches.

Like it wasn't about offense.

And so when I was a GAA at Jacksonville and even at Tony Jasic was a defensive minded coach.

I was just so defensive.

I was really good defensively.

Like from my mind I was like, man, one area I got to get better at is the offensive end.

And I know I could teach defense that, that's, I see the game in a defensive way.

It's like, okay, I got to get better offensively and I'm sure we'll talk about this.

My next step with coach, with coach Acuff.

But you know, taking little things from different people, which kind of molded me into the coach I am.

And again, I've had really, really good mentors, probably in my opinion, some of the best in the country.

And just being able to mold me in who I am today.

And as a basketball coach, what's one.

Thing you believe in that's a non negotiable on each end of the floor?

Give me one thing, offensive defense that you're like, my teams always have to have this.

Yeah, well, first of all, you got to have some toughness about you on both ends of the floor.

I think, you know, when you defensively, you know, being able to guard your yard, guard your man, staying out of rotations is really, is really important to us, you know, especially now, I think especially the team that we have this year, I think we're going to be pretty good at that.

And then offensively, just taking my non negotiable, just taking great shots, right.

You know, taking great shots.

I mean, it's not going to be perfect every single time.

I get that.

But being a good teammate and just getting it to the right open guy, I'm really big on making sure that our guys know what a great shot looks like.

And again, it's not going to be perfect.

But as long as they know because trust me, even in practice right now, they know when they take a bad shot and it's my bad, you know, and so, you know, again, can you be tough enough defensively?

No.

No middle drives.

You know, we do keep the ball on the outside.

So again we, you know, that's a non negotiable.

We don't want anything getting towards the middle, but just being tough and physical defensively, you know, I think you just gotta, you gotta have that, that, that dog in you if you want to be a really good defensive team.

And then of course, just getting great shots and just being a good teammate in my, in my opinion and taking.

The good shots perspective.

How do you teach that day in and day out in practice and through the use of film and conversations?

What does that look like for let's say a high school coach who's listening, who says, man, I want to teach my guys to take better shots?

What advice would you have for somebody in that situation?

Yeah, so a lot.

I think film is the best teacher because film doesn't lie, right.

And then we, you Know, showing.

Okay, you know, for us, we want to get, you know, layups first, you know, hand at the backboard, layups, you know, and then range, room and rhythm threes with the right guys, you know, wide open ones.

So for us, you know, saying, hey, these are the kind of shots that we're really good at that we want.

And a lot of times, I personally, I don't like showing NBA guys, you know, to, to our guys, because I think the NBA guys are just that much better, right?

I think they, they are, they are at a whole nother level.

But I like to show mid major guys, mid major player guys, you know, mid major plus.

And I was being a division two, a lot of our guys, they want to go play Division 1.

I was like, okay, all right.

This is where you can possibly go.

You know, I love.

I'm a big, A son guy.

I'm a big, so, so kind guy.

I love watching mid major basketball.

So I show, okay, this is the kind of shots that I want our team to take.

And giving them that.

And then when we're.

And our guys were in film, you know, okay, hey, this is a shot you took.

Is this a good shot or a bad shot?

Most of the time they'll say, if it's a bad shot.

They say, yeah, this is a bad shot.

Why is this a bad shot?

And he said, well, John Doe was open here in the corner.

All I had to do is one more, right?

And just showing them, and then showing them also when they take a good shot.

Right.

You know, also reinforcing.

You did a good job here, right?

And just continue to do that.

I think, you know, when you, you're teaching and growing, you can't always badger a kid.

Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.

You have to show them when they do something good.

So now that they can hold on to that and try and replicate that again.

Um, and so, you know, for us, our team is, you know, we're in week five, week six right now, and actually we haven't even talked about offense yet.

And we just been straight defense.

But, you know, I was telling my assistant coaches, I said, man, just watching our team, they're actually moving the ball and they're moving the buys.

Well, without any us coaching it just now.

And every once in a while in practice right now, I say, hey, was this a good shot?

You shot that over two people.

I said, who was open?

He said, oh, Vegas was open.

I should have threw it there.

Yep.

And then we go watch that in film.

So I think a lot of Times it's both showing for kids now.

Showing them, okay, where do I want to.

Showing them players of where they want to be.

So if I'm a high school coach, showing them college basketball players taking good shots.

Right.

Telling.

Showing them what kind of shots they're going to get the next level so they can see, okay, this is what I got to work on, and this is what coaches are looking for.

And then.

And of course, as well, making sure that you just show them good and the bad, because at the end of the day, you know, you want those guys to learn and continue to get better.

Yeah.

I think that's really important when you talk about the balance between, hey, this is what we want, and, hey, this is what we don't want.

Because I think the tendency sometimes is to get into, hey, this is what we don't want, thinking that that's the best way to correct.

But there's also.

When you give praise and the kids see themselves doing the things correct, they know they're capable of doing it.

And I think that you have to be really intentional as a coach to balance out those two.

Right.

Balance out, hey, here's the positive film of what we're doing, and this is what we want.

And then, hey, here's some instances where we didn't quite get exactly what we're looking for.

How can we make this a fix?

And how can we.

Can we make it better?

And I think that's a.

There's.

That's a big piece of, of being successful in terms of your player development.

Right.

Helps each individual kid to be better, and then it also helps your team collectively when everybody grows.

Yeah.

And, you know, and I think there's a thing when you're, when you're a toddler or when you're young and five years old, you know, your parents always, oh, you did a good job.

You did a good job.

You did a good job.

We still have that as adults.

Right.

We still want to be told that we're doing a good job, that we're.

We're.

We're progressing right.

At the end of the day, that's.

That's what life is about, is just always getting better and progressing.

So having that positive reinforcement is really important and making sure that you're still building confidence into your players.

But again, like.

And again, there's a balancing act that has to be done.

Sometimes you might have to get on them, right.

And say, this is not how we're going to do things.

But at the same time, showing them that positive reinforcement that you're capable of doing it.

Because I think a lot of times what happens is some coaches might, man, you're still not doing this.

You're still not doing this.

They're still not doing this.

Now the kid has that name, can I even do it right?

And just still showing them that positive reinforcement that they're capable and they just have to replicate it over and over again.

You mentioned Coach Acuff earlier.

And after Jacksonville, you get an opportunity to go and work for Coach Lipscomb.

Work, work at Lipscomb for Coach Acuff.

And anyone who's in the basketball space knows his reputation as a coach and what he's all about.

So just tell us a little bit about the experience there.

What are some things that you took away from your time working with him for him that impacted you as you went into your first experience as a head coach?

Yeah, man, I was.

When you talk about a mastermind of a basketball coach and just especially on the offensive end, you know, like I had mentioned all of my coaches that I had, you know, that I previous worked for, play for raw defensive minded coaches.

And you know, Coach Acuff is an offensive guy that is, everybody knows that.

And he just.

His language, his ability to teach, I think for me, you know, and again I again taking bits and pieces from everybody, all of my other previous coaches that I had before Coach Acuff were hard, nose, tough, you know, didn't really give a lot of positive reinforcement.

Coach Acuff, on the other hand, was the one that showed me you can give positive reinforcement and still get the most out of kids and players.

So that's where I get a lot of, you know, that balancing act in those two years at Lipscomb were unbelievable.

You know, I was there his first two years where he was really building it, the program back up.

You know, Flipscomb has been a very good basketball program.

Even when Coach, Coach Alexander, who was before Coach Alexander, I think it was Coach Alexander who's at Belmont, you know, it was a really good program.

And then, you know, Coach Acuff was able to take.

And I was those there those first two years where he was building it, we actually, my first year we ended up going to the ASUN championship against Liberty and then just seeing them, what they did the last two years, you know, going to the NCAA tournament and really winning 20, 25 games.

But just learning the terminology, you know, learning the Princeton offense, learning how to teach the offensive end what is a good shot.

What are we looking for?

Playing off of two feet, just so much knowledge was gained in that two years and crazy thing.

And that was during that Covid year too.

So we were at home, right?

Just being able to soak up so much, you know, from him.

I'm just so blessed.

And also just being he just his ability to care about his players, to love on them, you know, coach also was.

I was also blessed.

Coach Kevin Carroll, who's actually the head coach at Lipscomb right now, was the assistant those two years I was there.

That staff was unbelievable.

So I credit those guys.

Those two years, just the amount of knowledge and drill work and you know, concepts offensively that I was able to bring here to Davison Elkins as an assistant, I couldn't have been.

I think those two years is where I made a massive jump in terms of teaching, teaching offense and then as well as that positive reinforcement of giving to our players.

And again that staff, Coach Kevin Carroll, Tyler Murray, Coach Acuff and Roger Engstrom were all phenomenal coaches.

And again I learned so much for them and grateful I was there for those two years.

To be able to take those lessons with you, right.

And something that you can internalize and as you said, coming into that as sort of a defensive minded guy, right.

Somebody who had spent more time with coaches who put the focus on that end of the floor then to be able to come and work under Coach Auff and see again a totally different.

This is one of the things I always find fascinating, right.

Is that when you go through your career, first as a player and then you get into the coaching world and if you've only had a couple of experiences, like I always say, for me, I played for one high school coach, I played for one college coach.

And then I got my first coaching job.

I was like a JV high school basketball coach.

And so the only thing I knew from a basketball standpoint and I wasn't like you, I wasn't a kid who was thinking I was ever going to coach.

I was just focused on trying to be the best player I could be.

So the only thing I knew when I became a coach was what my high school coach did and what my college coach did.

And so all the drills, all the philosophies, basically anything that came from those two guys was all.

Was all I knew.

And so when you go through your career and you get those different experiences and you get to see like, hey, here's a guy who does it the hard nosed way, here's a guy who does it with praise, here's a guy who does it with defense, here's a Guy who does it with offense.

And then that doesn't even obviously get into all the different philosophies of how you play offensively versus how you play defensively and.

And all the X's and O stuff.

But just to be able to have those varied experiences and then to be able to take bits and pieces of them to grow yourself, but then also, as you're trying to grow into who am I becoming as a coach?

Because clearly, early in your career, you're very much influenced by the people that you're around, whether coaches that you played for as a player or guys that you worked for earlier in your career.

And that as you go through and you gain more experience like you did, you start to get things that you're like, hey, I like this, or, hey, I want to take that, or, hey, hey, maybe that's not the right thing.

That works for him, but it may not work for me.

And so you start to kind of build your coaching philosophy.

So after Lipscomb, obviously, as you said, you're there, you gain all that knowledge.

The COVID situation clearly puts a damper on some of that time there.

But as you said, it's still an opportunity to grow.

Talk about the opportunity at Davis and Elkins.

How does that come across your desk?

And what's the process for making the decision to go and take that job as an assistant coach?

Well, again, going back.

Again, going back to how I got here, you have to rewind all the way back to high school.

So when I was a senior, when I talked about I didn't have a lot of recruitment, I did take a visit to Edgar College, which is in St. Pete, and my coach, Coach Ryan, was on a visit.

So the kid that was my host on the visit was Woody Taylor.

Woody Taylor had just finished.

He was a point guard at Eckerd.

They were winning a lot of games.

He had just graduated.

But again, remember, I talked about everything that I did in my recruiting process.

I wanted to be into coaching.

So when I told Coach Ryan, I said, hey, I want to get into coaching.

This is what I'm doing.

He set me up with Woody Taylor, which who is my host at Eckerd.

So got to know him.

And to fast forward a couple years, he got into coaching.

He was at Marshall as a ga.

He was at Salem, and then now he's the assistant at unc.

Asheville, was up at Cookman, but he's a really good assistant.

And when I was at Lipscomb, now to fast forward, I say, hey, you know, I reached out to my Contacts.

I.

One thing I. I did not like is the operational stuff, like getting the food and.

And getting all the fusses.

You know, I love the basketball piece of it, but I really wanted to get on the road.

I wanted to be an assistant.

So I, you know, reached out to.

My contacts, reached out to Woody.

Me and Woody stayed in touch, you know, through all Those years, from 2013 all the way up.

And it was funny.

I was at.

I had a couple of offers, Division 3 school to go be an assistant.

And Woody was actually really close friends with Coach Mondragon.

Coach Mondragon.

They were both in Daytona, at Daytona beach or Daytona at the same time.

Woody was at Bethel Cookman when Coach Mondragon was an assistant at Emory Riddle and also at DME Academy.

And so that's how that connection worked.

But Woody's like, hey, look, I got an opportunity at Davidson Elkins, right?

It's in West Virginia.

I'm like, oh, man, West Virginia.

I don't know if I really want to be in West Virginia, but.

And he's like, first of all, the one thing he always told me, he's like, one.

Don't ever chase the money, right?

That was one thing that I've learned, you know, especially as an early coach, is never.

You're never going to make a lot of money early.

You're never going to make a lot of money early.

You want to be under good people and learn from great people and work for great people.

And.

And I said, all right, Woody, I'm trusting you on this.

Like, I'm gonna go to Davis now because of Coach Mondragon.

And so going back to that, I say all that.

That's why, you know, a lot of these connections.

You know, the coaching world is all about connections, right?

In.

In making sure you stay in touch with all them.

And that's how I actually ended up here at D and E, with the connection that I had all the way back from high school on a recruiting visit, right?

You know, us staying in contact.

But, man, what a.

What a blessing it was to be able to work for Coach Mondragon.

He was.

When he took the job here at 28, two years prior, you know, D and E was not a very good basketball program in.

Historically, just.

Just quite honestly, horrible.

And just to see his vision that first year, to see the vision that he had.

You know, the players that we had, we had really great dudes.

They were just so tightly knitted.

You know, we didn't even.

My first year here, we didn't win a lot of games we won, I think eight games.

We had a lot of injuries.

But, you know, going, it's, it's funny going back to what you had mentioned earlier is about just being where you are and working really hard and not looking for the next opportunity.

And so I just enjoy being with Coach.

He's a, he's a coach Mont Drag.

He's a great human being.

Great to work for.

We were just on so much.

We were synchronized in a lot of different areas.

You know, just, you know, we had, I told, I told my assistants the other day, like probably about a month into the season, you know, we had some really bad practices my first year as an assistant and we're like, no, I get a lot of my ideas in the shower.

I wake up, I go to the office and I look at Coach Mondragon.

I say, hey, Coach, I got an idea.

He was like, he, you know, coach comes and he's like, hey, I got an idea what we should do for practice.

And I looked at him, I said, I know what your idea is, Coach.

He said, no, you don't.

No, you don't say.

I 100% know what you're going to ask me.

He said, all right, write it down on a piece of paper.

So I write my idea down, I folded it up, I said, all right, Coach, you tell me what your idea was.

He's like, how about we get into practice gear and we practice today?

And I turned it over and I said, yep.

I said, practice with the team.

And so that was kind of the synchronizing the synergy that we had during my three years with coach and just being able to learn from him.

He was a defensive minded coach, but I was able to bring some of that, the Lenny Acuff offense in, you know, and the teachings that helped us kind of build this program and those three years with him were phenomenal.

And just being able to build from ground up and really changing how D and E is perceived in the league and just the, the respect that we're starting to get.

We're not done.

We're just going to continue to, to grow and build this thing.

But man, I was just so blessed to, to be able to be around him and learn from him and again, for him giving me this opportunity to be here at Davis Nelkins.

So.

Tell me a little bit about switching from one area to the country which you've done.

You know, again, you're Florida, you go to Lipscomb, then you're, then you're in West Virginia.

In terms of, I Always think about this when it comes to recruiting, right.

And being able to have connections and contacts.

And obviously, the recruiting world, much different even from when you started as a college coach, right?

The portal, not nearly as much of a factor.

Nil didn't exist back when you started.

So there's all these different things that have come into play.

But I still always feel like, man, it's got to be an adjustment to go from.

Here you are in Florida, you got all these contacts, you know, people.

You got people you can reach out to.

Boom.

All of a sudden, now here you are in West Virginia, and you're like, I don't know any high school basketball coaches in West Virginia.

I got to make all new contacts with AAU guys and all that stuff.

So just tell me a little bit about that kind of adjustment, going from job to job.

Yeah, so the.

The funny part was when I was an ops guy at Lipstick, and I didn't really do a lot of recruiting, I was just.

I was not really reaching out.

And I wish I.

Looking back, I wish I did use that.

That D1 tag to.

To recruit, but because Coach Mondragon was actually from Florida, I was from Florida.

We recruited the state of Florida heavy and got a lot of guys up to West Virginia, and we.

The Florida guys did us fairly well.

But you're right, you know, re like everywhere you go, you know, getting those local connections, you know, for us, you know, West Virginia, Maryland, you know, Virginia is really important for us, you know, from that local standpoint.

And.

But the good thing about kind of moving all over the place in the coaching roles, the bigger your network and the bigger your contacts are, the normally the better players that you can get or at least have an idea who they are.

And so, you know, for me, I'm still growing that.

I'm still learning that, you know, and the recruiting piece is fun.

You know, it's.

It's.

And again, for us, it's a little different.

You know, us being in West Virginia, in the mountains, it does take a certain type of kid and that will enjoy being here, you know, and we've had really good players that wanted to stay in our program and just fell in love with what we were doing and what the school is doing as well.

You know, you really just got to get to know the kids and their families to make sure it's the right fit.

And so, you know, it's not.

It's not always going to be perfect, but we definitely have had, again, really good players that have helped us build this thing over the years.

But, yeah, recruiting is never.

There's no.

There's no black and white to recruiting.

You really.

You really got to make it your own, you know, in terms of how you recruit, you know, your own swag, your own way of doing it.

And again, you just got to be yourself in the recruiting process with kids.

Makes sense.

Tell me a little bit about the transition from assistant to head coach.

What's that like for you?

First of all, just making the transition from assistant to having your first head coaching job.

And then I always think that there's some guys take over a program like you did, where you go from an assistant to a head coach, where now the players saw you in one role, now they got to transition to seeing you in a different role, which I know there's always challenges there.

And then you also have some guys who get a job from the outside and come into a whole new program.

So those players didn't see them as an assistant.

They just see them as the new head coach.

So just tell me a little bit about that transition for you from assistant to head coach and how you had to navigate going from.

Again, right, as the assistant, you're the confidant, right?

Players are coming to you.

They're talking to you about this.

That.

The other thing, suddenly, as the head coach, all those conversations go silent, right?

Nobody's.

Nobody's coming to you with, hey, what can I do to get more.

It's.

It becomes a little different.

Just talk to me a little bit about getting the job.

And then how you navigated the transition from assistant to head coach within.

Within the same program.

Honestly, it was very, very frustrating.

I hated it at first.

I hated the fact that I.

They didn't come to me with their problems and issues.

I really love those conversations.

I love being able and say, hey, what's going on?

Right?

And now for me, this year, I've made a more conservative effort.

Hey, let me go out and see how you're doing.

Meet you at your dorm room, go to lunch, take them to lunch, and be a little bit more, you know, proactive in that way.

But as an assistant, it comes to you, right?

And so I.

It was really hard for me to not get those conversations anymore.

And that was a struggle, to be honest, because I'm like, man, why.

Why am I not.

Why are they not coming to me with their problems?

How can I help them?

Because I want to help, right?

And I think a lot of times, guys, they're so worried about, oh, this is going to affect my playing time, Yada.

Yada.

Now, nine times out of 10, it's not.

If you're having some type of issue with outside or, or you know, non basketball related or even basketball, come talk to me.

Literally, I have an open door, you know, like, I really want the guys to come talk to me.

So I did struggle with that a lot last year with not being able to be that confident, you know, that comforting voice and then kind of always being the guy that always put out the punishments.

You know, as the assistant, you know, you can give the, you can give all the suggestions you want, right?

Like it.

But it's the head coach's choice to either go with that suggestion, but they have to execute that suggestion as well.

So if it's putting them on the line for, because they're late or whatever it may be, I'm always the discipline guy.

So they don't really, they don't feel like they can always come talk to me and open up.

So especially this year I've been really more intentional in that way because I want our guys to feel like, man, I'm still, I'm still a human being.

I'm still a great person to be around.

Just because I'm hard on you and want you to be good or we're disciplining you doesn't mean I don't love you and I don't care about you.

And so that was the hardest thing.

I think the next hardest thing going from an assistant to a head coach was just the amount of decisions that you have to make on a day to day basis, you know, from, you know, recruiting, from gear, from, you know, all the administrative stuff.

Okay, what does this look like?

How are you going to do this?

How are we going to build this?

You know, there's so many decisions that are made and it got mentally draining last year, you know, because I wasn't prepared for the amount of decisions that had to come with being a head coach.

So, you know, and again, that's why, you know, that's why the great ones are really good.

You know, the coach ks, the Bill selfs, those guys are making daily, daily, daily decisions every single day.

And they're really good at it, you know, and that's why everybody can't be a great head coach because those decisions affect the other 18 or 20 people that are underneath you.

And so, you know, those were some of the challenges.

But the good thing that, you know, when I took over, you know, and again being here for three years, you know, the administration being having confidence in me to continue to lead this Program.

You know, the great thing is when we, when Coach Mondragon left the, the guys that we had, we had a good core group of guys returning.

We had only really lost one guy to graduation.

So last year's team, we added a few pieces and, but we added a few pieces.

So that team was, they, they were used to me already, you know, in terms of how I, how I coach.

And except for we, we had recruited two or three more guys, no new guys to come in the fold.

But it was a pretty, it was a pretty not easy transition, but it was, it was, it was kind of smooth.

You know, it wasn't like, you know, it was just something so, something completely different.

You know, we were doing some of the same stuff, teaching some of the same stuff in terms of like the strategy and how we're going to build our defense and offense and stuff.

So a lot of our guys were able to pick up on all that stuff.

So it wasn't like something brand new.

But, you know, I think last year, you know, again we had a really good group of.

And we.

Our best player towards Achilles halfway through the year.

And I truly believe if we had him, we probably would have won 18, 19 games and not go 12 and 18, like that's the difference, you know, in five or six games.

And so, you know, we battled a lot of injuries last year, but again we set a foundation of how I still want to continue to grow this thing.

And you know, again, going back to Coach Mondragon, he, he laid the foundation in his five year tenure.

I'm just here to just continue to build on it.

And again, I'm blessed.

You know, a lot of people don't walk into a situation like that where they have a foundation of guys that have been here that, you know, I've been here for three years.

We've laid it, you know, and now you're just building.

Right?

And so I'm happy about that.

And, and again, I made a lot of mistakes in my first, in my first year as a head coach.

You know, I look back over the summer, I'm like, man, this is what I could do a little better.

You know, going into this year, I'm a little bit different.

You know, I'm a little bit, a little bit harder or pushing guys a little bit.

You know, I think last year I was like, man, do these guys really like me?

You know, do they how they feel about me?

Now I really don't care this year as much.

Right.

I still care as you, as a, as a basketball player, but I'm going to push you past your limits.

So I think that's where, you know, it's a little bit different this year, and the guys are responding, which is great.

And again, I think our team has continued to take strides, and we had really two really good weeks this past two weeks where we're going.

So, yeah, the transition was different, is definitely hard.

You're never ready to move 6 inches over, and you think you are until you're in that seat.

And so it has been great.

And again, I'm blessed to be able to be a head coach at a Division 2 basketball program.

What's something that you learned about yourself last year when you sat down at the end of the season over the summer, and you're reflecting on, hey, this year, first year as a head coach, here's what went well, here's what maybe I would have done differently.

What's something that, when you look back now, you're saying to yourself, I know this about myself as a head coach.

No matter where I go, no matter what happens, no matter what kind of team I have, I know this one thing about myself as a head coach.

One thing that I learned, I kind of touched on it is being okay with uncomfortable conversations and being okay with them not liking me in the moment and under them understanding that, yeah, you might not like me right now, but you're going to love me when it's all said and done.

And that that was the hardest piece.

Because I want, you know, in my nature, I want people to.

I want to give back.

I want people to like me.

But understanding that that's not always going to be the case as you're a head coach, you're not going to make everybody happy.

You just can't.

When you have 18 or 19 guys on roster, you just.

It's almost impossible to keep everybody happy.

But you have to do it for the program, and you have to do it for where you're trying to build this thing, you know, this thing.

And even for the kids, you just.

You have to push them past their limits.

And so, you know, for me, I have so much more to learn, and I want to absorb, like this summer, just continue to listen to podcasts, listen to different people, you know, in clinics.

Just because I want to be as great of a basketball coach I can be for Davis and Elkins College.

Right.

You know, I don't want this thing to go back to where it was five years ago, where we weren't.

We were barely winning five, six games like that.

I want to have winning Seasons.

I want to win 20 games.

I want to get.

We've never been to the NCAA tournament here.

Like, there's things that still need to be checked off our list here at David Sunelkin.

So I have to get better every single, every single day and every single summer.

You know, one thing I think, you know, when you're, I learned this big time is, you know, you have to put the right people around you.

Right.

From a staff standpoint, um, and so the staff that I have this year is unbelievable.

Coach JC it has been.

Who's my full time assistant now?

This year has been a phenomenal.

And then it was able to hire two other great guys, Coach James, Coach Ford and Sam Roll, who actually played for me.

Our staff is just so much better, so much more connected.

And our guys see that.

Right?

You know, I think that was a, a little bit of a struggle last year is our, our staff, you know, we weren't as connected as we were.

You know, when you have a connected staff, your team becomes a little bit more connected.

And so that was another thing that I learned is making sure that you put the right people around you to help elevate you, but also help you when times get hard to have your back at all times.

So, you know, that's, that's definitely one area that we've upgraded this year.

And I will continue to keep in an upgrade as I, as I become a head coach, you know, for years to come.

How do you designate roles for your assistants and figure out who does what.

What does that look like from your decision making and then also from the conversations that you have with your staff in terms of strengths that they bring to the table, things that they like to do.

Just how do you designate who does what?

I think a lot of times it's just I ask them, hey, like, what, what are your strengths?

What are your weaknesses?

And honestly, what do you want to do?

I think a lot of time I'm going to give them responsibilities that they don't really want to do, to be honest.

But like, you know, we had a staff.

We had a staff meeting.

I said, okay, what side of the ball do you see when you're just naturally watching the game on.

In TNT or in espn, you know, some guys naturally watch defense.

Right?

Some guys naturally watch offense.

And so I asked Coach J.C. i said, which side of the ball do you see the best?

He's like, oh, I see the defensive side of the ball.

All right, you're going to be my defensive coordinator because that's the side of the ball that you naturally see.

And then Coach Ford's like, I, I like seeing offense.

All right, well, you're going to be my offensive coordinator, you know, and just kind of divvying those tasks, you know, and again, you know, for, you know, and then Sam is going to be.

He's our rebounder and our hustle guy.

And he was a really good player for us.

So sometimes just say, hey, what do you really want to do?

Or what do you see?

And then of course, also looking back, okay, what are their strengths and weaknesses are as a staff?

What can they do?

What can they learn?

And then giving them some things that will help them be better coaches, better, better assistants, you know, and all them want to be head coaches one day, right?

And giving them those tasks.

I think even with Sam, you know, he, he was a really good player for us for five years.

He averaged 18 and 7.

He's from Florida.

You know, he stayed in the program.

You know, you don't see that much at all.

Is a guy that average 18 and stayed at a school for five years, especially Division 2 school.

And I was blessed enough.

He's the one that.

Towards Achilles last year and he became like our third assistant.

And we do have a developmental team, a JV team.

And man, I've given him that, that role of, hey, you're going to be a head coach one day.

Because he has it, he has that it factor.

He has that ability to command a practice.

So I've given him the responsibility of the JV program and he's ran with it and he, he's going to be, mark my words.

Mark.

October 3rd at, at 12:45, Sam Roll will be a really good basketball coach and a head coach one day because he just, he has that it factor.

So giving those, those guys the ability to have some of those head coaching responsibilities or having some of those responsibilities that they're going to see when they get that opportunity.

Because that's what Coach Mondragon did for me, right?

As, as, as I was learning under him.

You know, there was times where he just, yo, go make a practice plan.

Go, go run practice.

And I don't care what you do, just run it and do it well, right?

And so giving those guys those responsibilities so that they can learn and grow, so that they're ready for their opportunity when their time is called.

So.

But yeah, again, our staff is phenomenal.

And again, I'm so excited about this year coming up.

What does practice planning look like for you?

Are you sitting down by yourself at your desk?

On the computer.

Are you writing it down?

Is it.

Is it a collective effort between you and the staff?

Just what's the process for putting together a great practice?

So last year it was by myself, and that was.

That was.

That was a lot.

And so this year it is a collective effort.

I have an idea of what I want to do, but it is, you know, normally I make the practice plan of what I want to do, what I think needs to be done, then we meet as a.

As a staff, and I say, okay, what do we do for practice?

And I get all their ideas, and then I might go back and change it.

Right.

Or put some different things in.

So, you know, it is a collective effort, you know, in terms of what needs to be done.

I mean, at the end of the day, I told my staff, I said, you guys can give me suggestions.

I'm not going to always take them, but I'm going to listen, right?

You know, if you continue to gain my trust in doing the small task, and then when it's time for that suggestion, I'm going to trust that what you're saying is a good thing for our program.

And so I'm really big on it being a team thing.

You know, from a staff standpoint, you know, practices for us, I've kind of taken it structured.

I loved how Coach Acuff structured his practices.

So we always do about 20 minutes of skill development.

If it's ball handling, passing, shooting, the first, you know, 20 or 25 minutes, you know, and then we'll go into our defensive fundamentals for about 10 minutes of, like, closeouts or, you know, just working on different things.

And then we do our defensive segment, then we go into transition offense at the end.

So that's kind of how we structure practice.

But, you know, a lot of it, again, it's taking those ideas from my assistants because they've been a really.

They've.

They've won.

Coach JC's won at point park under Kevin Reynolds, who's a heck of a basketball coach.

Coach Ford was really good at Macomb Community College.

They were top five in the country the last two years, you know, and Sam has won here as a player.

So they.

They have that winning pedigree.

So I want to listen to what they.

They've learned from their previous stops.

And, you know, the cool thing about it is, like, they're bringing me so many ideas and so many different things that we're applying to our program this year, and it's been phenomenal, right?

Things that I never even thought of.

I'm like, oh, that's really good.

And so we're implementing that.

And I think at the end of the day, as an assistant, you want your boss to be able to at least listen, you know, again, not necessarily take every idea, but at least listen and hear it through and have a collective, you know, come together to make it a masterpiece at the end of the day.

Like, this is a team thing.

I know I'm the head guy.

I know I'm the one that makes all the decisions at the end of the day, but I think when you can take so many different, different ideas, it's almost, it's so amazing what you can put together, especially for your team.

I think that's hard to do, especially when you're a young coach, right?

Because you've got all your ideas that you've been building up over your time as an assistant coach.

And then you.

Also, because it's your name on the program, especially for the first time, you want to have your hand and all that stuff, right?

It's hard to say, hey, you just take the defense, or, hey, you just take this drill, or you just.

That's hard to do, I think.

And I think as you get more experienced and you, you become more comfortable delegating.

That's one of the things I hear all the time, is that that delegation piece doesn't come naturally.

Like, even, I'm sure for you, even when you, even when you give it to somebody, you're still like.

Can I.

Can I really do that?

And yet everybody that I talk to that has gotten to that point just talks about how valuable it is because of what you just said, which is all those guys are bringing their own ideas, right, that you can't, you can't have every idea from every program in the country.

You just haven't met around all those.

So that's why you hire a staff, is to bring in those new thoughts and ideas.

And then, as you said, you as the head coach, you take those ideas, you think about them, you consider them, and then either you take that suggestion or you don't.

You ultimately make the decision.

But I do think that that delegation piece is one that is important.

And yet at the same time, I've, I know how hard that is.

I know, I know how difficult it is to, to give up any piece of it, especially when you feel like, you know, I, I got this.

This is what I, this is what I've been waiting for.

I, I, I got it.

And then to say, I got it, and then I'm gonna Give it to somebody else.

That's tough.

Yeah, it is tough.

But, you know, one thing I, I, somebody told me this one day, when you delegate, right, or you want it to be, you give a task or you give an assignment, are you teaching that person how you want it to be done?

Right?

So if it's not done the right way or how I expected it, then I look at myself.

Did I give the right instructions?

Did I show them how it should be done?

Right?

So I think the biggest part of delegation is, are you teaching the person how you want it to be done?

If you're not teaching them how I want to be done, then you just got to take it over.

Right?

So I think that's the biggest piece, and I struggled with that last year is like, I didn't teach my assistants how I wanted things to be done.

So then it didn't get done, and then I just took it and then I just did it.

Right.

And so, you know, this year it's like, okay, being more intentional.

Hey, this is how I wanted to be done.

This is how we're going to teach it.

This is how we're going to teach the fundamentals or whatever.

And then if it doesn't get done right.

Okay, Did I not explain it right or did they just not do it right?

Right.

So I think that's the piece of delegation that I think a lot of people miss is, are you, are those instructions given the right way and how you want to be done?

But again, there's times where they just don't do it right either.

But, you know, I think from my experiences being under with Coach Acuff, you know, he had a great staff like that staff is unbelievable.

Being with Coach Jasic, that staff is under unbelievable.

And seeing everybody do their different jobs at a high level, at, you know, whatever their responsibilities were, that's when you become a very efficient staff.

Right?

When everybody has their own, you know, niche or their own responsibilities and do it at a high level, that's where you can really put it all together.

So I was just blessed enough again to be under people that were doing it the right way, that were winning the right way, and having, you know, you know, having all that, I was able to see it firsthand.

And again, you're right.

It's very hard when you're a second year head coach to delegate.

It's very hard.

But at the end of the day, especially the staff that I have this year, they want to help me, they want to have my back.

So if I know that it's easy to give stuff off because I know they're going to do it for me and make sure that it's going to get done.

All right.

Heading into year two, looking ahead, final two part question, part one, what do you see as being your biggest challenge over the next year or two?

And then second part of the question, when you think about what you get to do every single day, what brings you the most joy?

So start with your biggest challenge, and then we'll follow that up with your biggest joy.

I think the biggest challenge for me is trying to accomplish things that have never been done here at Davis and Elkins.

You know, we've, we have a really good league, West Liberty, who's ran the league for the last 15, 20 years.

You know, Fairmont.

The biggest challenge this year going into next year or whatever, is taking that next jump for us to get to the top half of the league, first or second, get into the NCAA Tournament.

That's the, I think because it hasn't been done here.

That's the biggest challenge right now for us.

And staying up there, right?

Being consistently in the, at the top of the league, that, that, you know, and then, of course, just keeping our culture, you know, and, and really coaching, that is always a challenge because you don't want slippage, right?

You, you always got to find, make sure you don't have slippage and guys not doing what they're supposed to and continue to build the things that Coach Mondragon set and that we built.

I think that's the biggest challenge.

And so that, and then your second part, the biggest joy.

Man, I tell people this all the time.

I don't, I don't work a day in my life.

Like, what I'm doing is a hobby, and I'm just so happy to be getting paid for it.

And just to be able to say, I'm a African American coach at 30 years old with a Division 2 head job.

You know, I wouldn't have never thought this would have happened five, six, seven years ago, right?

And just being able to, you know, I have another job on campus that I really love.

I work in student life.

Like, I don't, I don't work a day in my life, even if it might be going on a recruiting trip or, you know, me putting on an event on campus.

It is just so fun being able to interact with the people on campus, with our staff, with our students.

You know, I'm, again, I'm just so blessed to say, hey, I'm not working.

I'm really just having A hobby that I'm just so happy to get paid a little money for.

And I think, you know, when.

And I tell kids this all the time, like, find something that you enjoy doing every single day, and if you can make money doing that, then your life would be fulfilling, right?

If you're going to go do a job, a 9 to 5 job that you hate every single day, you're going to be miserable.

You're going to be miserable, unfortunately, and sometimes it happens you have to do a job that you got to give the money to survive.

I get that.

But if you can find something that you enjoy and that you can survive off of financially, your.

Your purpose in life, you will be for more fulfilling.

And then, of course, me being a teacher, me being a coach, I'm able to impact these young men, you know, like from 18 to 22, 23 years old, this is, this is the most important time of their lives where they're going to go one way or the other, right?

Good or bad, whatever career they're going into, this is setting them up for the next 20 to 30 years.

And I'm so blessed to be able to say I can help mold, help grow, help guide these young men into that.

You know, like, when I got here at D&E five years ago, we had a.

A class, that freshman class that came in with me, and all of them stayed all four years.

And to see them go across the stage, see them move on to the next, you know, one of them is.

Have had a baby the other day, and I can't wait to go down to Florida and just go hang out with his newborns, newborn boy.

Right?

You know, seeing those progressions because those guys, they're.

Their journey wasn't straight.

It was ups and downs, not playing, playing, getting, you know, maybe getting a little trouble on camp.

You know, it wasn't, it wasn't perfect at all.

But to see them walk across that stage, to see them doing what they love, to see them, you know, continue to go on forth and pay it forward, you know, be good husbands.

That's what it's all about.

And coach, Coach Kevin Carroll and coach Acup always told me, you always want to make sure you have a.

Are you going to have an empty funeral or a full funeral, right when you, when you pass away, how many people are you impacting are going to come back and say, man, he was a good man, right?

It is not about the money.

It's not about anything.

Are you going to have so much of an impact on the people around you?

Every single day, are you going to have a full funeral or empty funeral?

And I think that's at the end of the day, if you're just a good person and you just want to help people and build people up, you're going to have so much life and fulfillment.

And that's just kind of how I've always been, and that's how I see life every day and want people to just continue to go forth and be good people.

Yeah, there's two really powerful things that you said there, Daniel.

One is if you could give everyone the gift of having a job like you have, that you love to go to every day, that it doesn't feel like a job and you can earn a living, there'd be no better gift than we could give to every human being in the world than that.

And then the second thing is being able to make the kind of impact that you talked about and being able to use the game of basketball, which you love, to be able to do that type of work in the world, to be able to have that kind of impact.

I always feel like I've said this numerous times on the podcast, that I can never give basketball back what basketball has given me.

And so whether it's through the podcast or through camps or whatever it is that I'm still doing with the game, it's my small way of giving back and try to make an impact.

But there's nothing more meaningful than being able to do that with the game that I love.

And those are the two things that.

Those are two powerful themes that came through our entire conversation.

And you did an awesome job there of kind of summarizing your philosophy and who you are as a person and who you are as a basketball coach.

So thank you for that.

Before we get out, I want to give you a chance to share.

How can people reach out to you, connect with you, find out more about you and your program, whether you want to share, social media, email, website, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I'll jump back in and wrap things up.

Yeah, the best way to contact me is either email or Twitter.

I always forget my Twitter name.

I guess I should remember, but email is Harris D2D E W V EDU.

Again, Harris D2.

The number two at D E W V EDU.

Or you can contact me at.

On my Twitter @Coach.

Underscore.

D. Underscore.

Harris is the best way to contact me.

And again, I'm.

I'm an open book man.

And again, I'm not going to sit here and say, I've been here for 30, 40 years.

I know all the answers.

I don't.

But you know, I'm more than happy to connect with coaches, learn, talk.

I love talking ball.

And I tell, I tell my assistants, we just sit here and talk ball for two, three hours.

I'm okay with that.

And so, but yes, please reach out, you know, you know, come to open practices, come to practice.

Is there anything like that?

If you're inside the, the West Virginia area, more than happy to open it up and, and connect.

And like I said, I want to help, but again, I'm not a finished product.

So please don't, don't think I am.

And hopefully in two, 20, 20 or 30 years, you guys are going to be like, man, that, that young man was really good to me and able to give back.

So Daniel, I cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule today to jump on and join us.

Really appreciate it.

And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.

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