Okay, this is the get yout Some productions podcast, episode 93.

Usually we're a podcast.

Well, we're always a podcast covering everything from everything related to music production from the first note to the last fan.

So as long as it's music related, the production of music, the performance of music, we joke about how we talk about what's appropriate to wear on stage.

We can talk about fans that we love and fans that are annoying.

It's everything, you know, as long as it's music related, where it's all good.

So, yeah, so from.

It's everything related to music production from the first note to the last fan and quick plug.

So my partner, Dan.

Dan Kutcher may or may not be joining us, like I told you before, mid stream.

But so hopefully he will because he's like, he's my comedy partner.

He makes everything funnier.

But I'll try.

And sometimes these shows are a actual business meeting between Dan and I where we figure out how to run a business or how to do a podcast or how to have a music production company.

We just sort of do it in full view, full public view.

And oftentimes we don't know what we're doing.

We try to figure it out in real time and people get to watch us try to figure it out.

But we have been doing a lot of interviews, which we love doing because it takes a lot of pressure off of us.

So today we have Katarzyna Sunday.

And you are a opera singer.

Right.

And our connection is that we both went to Bard, right?

And Dan went to Bard as well.

So today's an interview.

And so what I'm going to do is we're going to get into your story first.

So actually, so, you know, we sort of.

It's actually sort of partially.

This podcast is actually kind of like selfish on our part because we want to network with people, we want to meet people.

And so for me, I'm just meeting you.

We just happen to be meeting in public so everybody can watch us meet.

Yeah, but.

So I want to know about you.

I want to know about you, like your life growing up, how you got into music, you know, so.

And everyone else who's watching this wants to know as well, because we're all human beings, you know, we're all trying to live on this planet together, you know, so we love hearing each other's stories.

So that's my first question.

Tell us your story.

So my whole life story, you don't have to.

You can talk.

You can make it as long or short as you want.

But this is a podcast.

It's a long form.

That's true.

So we have lots of time.

Yeah, you can.

You can.

I do have a cutoff at 2.

Okay, so.

But.

But don't let that stop you, because we can always do another show.

Okay, perfect.

Perfect.

Well, and then feel free to ask me questions as I'm talking.

Okay.

Or if I pause, because maybe I'll get lost in my own story.

But, yes, I'm an opera singer.

A classical singer, I guess, is the proper term, because technically people say opera sing because of the style of singing that you do professionally.

But technically the term should be classical singer, because we don't only perform in operas, but also in concert, in recitals, and not simply in, like, that play where there's music that we know as opera, but also in concert form as well.

Thank you for correcting me, because this.

Is my ignorance, but, you know, I mean, that's.

I usually tell people I'm an opera singer anyway, because it's just easier people understand.

Oh, that's when you go, oh, and you sing that way.

Hopefully I sing better than that than I just showed.

Now, I was born in Poland, and it was communist at the time.

So my father, he was an athlete at the time and an Olympian.

And because of the communist regime, he actually didn't get his second chance at an Olympic Games.

And he was one of the favorites in judo, the sport known as judo.

And really, that was sort of the last straw for him.

He always hated the communist regime, but because that happened, he decided, I'm going to take my family to Canada so that we could have a better life.

And so we immigrated through Berlin.

We went from East Berlin to West Berlin.

East Berlin was also communist at the time, and we lived in Berlin for about 11 months, and then we flew to Canada, where we started a new life as a family.

And I was 5 years old at the time, and I grew up, you know, without a loss.

We were immigrants.

My parents didn't make a lot of money, and I never had the luxury of having, like, music lessons from a young age.

I actually started singing lessons when I was 17, when I had my first job at a grocery store, and I paid for my own lessons.

And then a year later, I auditioned to the University of Ottawa to try to get into the music program.

And I was sure at the time that I wouldn't get in because my music theory background was so weak that I thought that there was no way I could get in.

And.

But I did get in based on the Audition, so they let me in purely based on potential.

And then that's sort of where my, my classical music story started.

Before that, in high school, I was singing lots of Whitney Houston or Celine Dion, so I was doing a lot of pop singing.

And then actually since then, because I had that, that self learned background in pop music, I always continued to both teach and perform in other styles other than opera.

And then I suppose that also is what allowed me to get into that vocals only original music, which we'll talk about a little bit later.

Because I use all of my styles of singing, all of my voices, so to speak, all the colors in my voice that I have available to me, I use those in my recordings of my original music as well.

So once I graduated the University of Ottawa, I then went on to the University of Toronto where I did my first Master's DEGR degree in operatic performance.

And then I went to bard.

I did a second masters and the reason I chose to do the bard program is because it wasn't purely based on opera, but on vocal performance in general.

We got to work with a lot of living composers.

So you do classical music, but it's actually composed by a composer that's sitting right next to you, working on the piece with you and writing it for your voice.

We did a lot of concert work.

So after those two master's degrees, I had a really well rounded education in everything that entails vocal performance, let's say.

Yeah, cool.

So.

So actually, so let's go back because.

So when you were 17, you were 17 and then you decided you wanted to sing.

Yes.

Oh, but you were already singing because that's high school age.

So you were already singing pop music and stuff like that and you liked it.

But then it was when you were 17, you decided, oh, I want to be a professional singer.

Yeah.

Okay.

So in a totally random situation, actually, yes, I loved singing pop music.

I considered that I would want to be a pop singer even before I went into classical training.

But then when I was 17, my sister's boyfriend at the time, who actually is her husband now, he was singing in a band and he just randomly decided to share with me that he was seeing this teacher just for like two sessions and that she's the classically trained singer, but she was really good for his technique, so he encouraged me, like, just go see her like once or twice and like she might be able to tell you a couple things that will help you with your singing.

So I went to see her and yeah, she was like this beautiful soprano, classically trained voice.

I was completely inspired by that sound.

I had always loved listening to it on CDs, but I never thought that I could actually do it.

And then when I saw her, I thought I was too old, you know, she asked me, do you want to keep singing like that pop style, or would you be interested in training your voice classically?

And I said, aren't I too old for that?

And she said, no, your vocal cords are actually mature now, so it's actually a very good time to start.

Between the ages of 15 and 17 is actually a really good time because you're not risking that you'll hurt your vocal cords because they're not fully mature.

So I started learning how to sing with her.

I had a tiny bit of music theory training from her.

Once she learned that, I would actually audition to the University of Ottawa.

She helped me with that a little bit, but it was literally, like, two months before I decided to audition.

Like, I was cramming all this music theory in which, like, you just don't learn it that quickly.

Right.

So, yeah, yeah.

But she helped me with the.

With the audition, of course, like, so that I could get my voice up to par.

And I think I did well in the audition, But I think for the music theory exams that they give you, I'm pretty sure I failed those.

So I had to work really hard the first two years in my undergrad in order to catch up with people that had been, you know, taking either piano lessons or singing in children's choirs from the age of like, five or six.

Right.

So I had to work very hard.

Yeah.

Most people end up in those types of programs, especially for classical.

They're kind of, like, trained from a young age.

Yeah.

Did I know that was it growing up in Poland also, there's like, a classical music sort of history there, and I think there it's a very serious attitude about music.

Was that an influence?

Like, because.

Did that influence your idea that you.

That you were too late?

No, no, actually, not that.

Because my family, like, they.

I didn't really come from a musical family, so it's not like any of those, like, notions were in my mind.

I simply thought that, like, because most people that do classical music, if they're violinists, like, they do it from the age of three or four sometimes.

So I assumed the same thing.

For that kind of high level of singing that you, like, you would need to have done it from childhood.

That was just something I assume.

Yeah.

But now it's something I actually, like, take into account when.

Because I do a lot of vocal coaching myself, and if parents approach me and the child is less than 12 years old, I'll usually tell them, like, I won't take them on.

Like, I want the vocal cords to be mature or at least, like, ready for that kind of training.

And it's a better idea, actually, to sign your young child up for piano lessons, violin, children's choir even, but not to, like, seriously train the voice because it's actually potentially dangerous for the vocal cords.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't want to get into whole, like, mechanics of singing thing, but I'm a singer, but, you know, not a professional singer.

I'm a.

I don't even know what to.

I'm a non professional singer.

I don't know.

But I've had a lot of issues with my vocal cords because I was in rock and roll bands for so long, and I didn't realize all the ways that I was abusing my voice until I finally got.

I sought out, you know, some lessons by a guy named Per Bristow.

Okay.

And he taught me about how you make your vocal cords come together in a part.

And it was not even something that I thought I would ever be able to control because I thought, oh, it's just, you know, it's.

It's involuntary.

Now I'm shocked that I can actually control it more because I think what I was doing was I was singing so much with them too far apart.

Yeah.

Too much air.

Forcing so much air through, and I ended up losing my voice.

And then I had a band, and I was chronically losing my voice during rehearsals.

I wasn't able to get through an entire rehearsal.

Now I'm better, but I still work on it a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And an interesting example of that is Axl Rose, you know, like, from Guns N Roses.

He had a fantastic instrument and then not exact proper use.

And, like, you heard him probably, like, at the Grammys, like, way later on in the.

In the Guns N Roses career, but he, like, just completely, like, he has no voice left.

And it's quite sad, right, because oftentimes it's just, like a few little techniques you can learn and you can save your voice.

Right.

I mean, I don't know about you.

I don't want to say anything, but I worry about that.

I worry about not being able to sing and not being able to play guitar because of, you know, any sort of repetitive stress or the issues that I've already had with my vocal cords.

I worry about that a lot.

Yeah.

But obviously, I mean, you know, the proper technique.

Okay, so I think that I'm interested to know about your musical influences because you named a few pop artists and by all means you can share some pop artists.

And do you still sing any pop or any other styles?

Oh, certainly.

Yes, yes, yes, absolutely.

I've always maintained that.

Yeah.

So I.

Because.

And I actually just really enjoy, like, kind of like dishing about our favorite artists and stuff like that.

But I'm curious because it's not my.

It's not one of the styles that I particularly gravitate towards.

So classical singing in general, I'm completely ignorant.

So if you want to share some of those, then that would be nice for me to be able to check them out afterward.

Oh, sure, absolutely.

So, you know, I really love a lot of the older recordings of opera singers, like from the 50s, 60s, even a little bit before that sometimes.

So a couple of my biggest influences, there's Fiorenza Costo.

So she was an Italian mezzo soprano.

Another one is Ebestignani.

I can always email you or text you.

I think you may have to.

But I do find that from some of the older recordings, the technique has changed a little bit, like, into modern times.

And I sort of.

I prefer a little bit of the old school technique from singers such as who I just mentioned, or Fedora Barbiero, that's another Italian mezzo soprano, long dead, but really fantastic voice.

And then of singers that are alive, I would say that probably Elina Garancha, I don't know if you've heard of her name, but she's one of the most famous mezzo sopranos nowadays.

Of course, in opera, like, nowadays, there's very few people that are actually quote unquote famous.

Right.

Because unfortunately, the art is a bit of a dying field.

But in my.

The people that surround me in my operatic circle or a classical music circle, like, they would know who Elina Garancha is.

And she was someone who really inspired me, like in my university days, like, I.

I really wanted to emulate her.

She also has a similar voice to mine, so it was someone that I could refer to when I was learning the traditional stuff.

Yeah.

So those, I would say, would be the biggest one.

If I think about more influences for the vocals, only original music I do, then that would be like someone like Lisa Gerard.

Are you familiar with her?

She's like, on a lot of music or film score soundtracks.

Oh, yeah.

And so she was the voice on the Gladiator soundtrack.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

She was like, all the singing, like, lower female Voice.

And I also have a lower voice too.

So when I first heard the Gladiator soundtrack, actually just by watching the movie, I just loved the music and the vocals of Lisa Gerard, like, it's just very inspiring.

She does like a bit of a.

She delves almost into classical technique, but not fully, like.

So I find that kind of singer is the most inspiring, like, in the modern world, right?

Because, like, we can't live in the past all the time.

You have to kind of look forward and try to figure out, like, what can you do to actually make a mark on the modern world and not just be an imitator.

So, which is also why I do my own music and I try to do original stuff, like in concerts, and so that it's not simply imitating music from, like the 1800s.

This light is starting to bother me.

So those are.

Those are cool.

I actually would.

Now I won't remember, but that's why we're on a podcast.

But I probably would have to have you email or text me the names and we'll put them in the show notes actually as well.

Sure, yeah.

But so something actually just popped up that I was curious about.

So you said that the technique was different from earlier.

Can you tell me?

I'm just.

Now I'm curious about how it's different.

And I speak specifically about classical technique, so I feel that a lot of it has changed into like slightly airier sounds, perhaps slightly nasal, rich sounds, simply so that a singer can project over an orchestra.

But I feel that that takes away a little bit from the main concept of bel canto.

So have you ever heard of that term, bel canto?

I've heard of it, but I don't know what it is.

In Italian, it literally means beautiful singing bel canto and the technique.

There are like workbooks and things that classical singers today, they can study from in order to learn bel canto.

And if you.

If you want to think about it simply, it's like a lot of the early Italian opera and classical Italian opera is where you're going to hear the most traditional bel canto technique.

So Bellini, Rossini, and those are all techniques that require a lot of legato and really connecting the voice from note to note and doing it properly.

But the other thing that it requires is also just beautiful open throat singing.

So that.

And I like to call it like a full circumference of resonance.

So you're resonating in your throat and then you also have the nasal and sinus resonance.

But you don't want to only resonate in the sinuses and the nose because then you get that nasal sound.

It can be very pointed and not as rounded and as beautiful as it can be.

So I suppose, if I'm being totally honest, like, what bothers me sometimes about the modern approach to teaching this style of singing is that the teachers and even the singers themselves, they really will, like, focus so much on that front sound in order to be super loud.

And they don't focus enough about having enough of an open throat.

And the reason why, I believe, is because when you have an open throat, you're a little bit more vulnerable.

It's almost easier to send your resonance more into the nasal cavity because you're less likely to crack because the back of your throat is not as open.

So if you keep it a little bit less open, but send all the air pressure forward, then it's easier to sing.

But I don't think it's the right thing to, like, do what's exactly easier if there's a technique where you can have a much better sound.

I hope that makes sense, what I'm saying.

It does make sense.

I think we could probably talk about this for a long time because it's something that I'm interested in because of my issues with my voice and losing my voice.

And I think this guy, Per Bristow, teaches a technique where quite a bit of the sound, I guess, but learning to put the sound, learning to put your vocal cords together also comes along with, I think, some more nasally voice, because precisely if you have that, if you're coming from a place where you already have maybe a potential injury or some irritation, it's a lot easier on the voice to sing that way.

But, you know, perhaps you're right, because, like, that it's just not as nice a sound.

So, you know, then what do you do?

What's the point?

You know, it's not just about being easy to do.

Yeah, yeah.

And listen, so don't get me wrong, so.

And I don't talk about.

I don't believe that you should make things difficult.

It's just that the technique itself, it's a little harder to learn in the beginning, but once you get the hand, like opening open the back of your throat, then it is actually very nice feeling, first of all, because you feel like this full circumference of resonance as opposed to just being very front, forward.

And it's something I teach also to pop singers, too.

So it's not just classical singers, but pop singers as well, can be overly nasal.

And then you.

There's always a balance, by the way.

So you can be too far back in the throat for sure.

Yeah.

And then in classical singers you hear like a.

Usually a very wide vibrato when that happens, like it's too wide.

Oh.

And then when it's too far back.

It'S too far back.

And then in pop singers, it's often too airy.

Oh, when it's too far back, it's too airy.

Yeah, yeah.

So there's always a balance.

Like for vocalists, no matter what kind of style you're singing, there's always a balance to find.

I've been working on that with my own exercises, where I've been doing them for a while now, probably a year.

And I'm only just being.

I've only just started to be able to move the sound forward and backward in my throat.

And actually it's been kind of a mind blowing experience because I didn't even think I could control my vocal cords at all.

And now being able to control the vocal cords, being able to feel where they're resonating, whether they're forward or backward has also just been like a complete shock to me because I didn't think that I was ever going to get there.

But.

Okay.

So did you have anything else to say?

No, I think that's, that's enough.

Unless you have questions about it, then.

No, I want to talk about your album now.

So the one that I listened to, I actually been listening to it kind of nonstop for the last two days.

Oh, thank you.

Is Evocations.

Yeah.

Is that, Is that how you say it or is it evocations?

How do you say evocations?

Evocations.

It's.

It's because I found it that the music.

The most comments I got was that it was evocative.

So then I thought, I'm going to call it Evocations.

I.

I have an awe.

I'm sitting in my conference room in my office, which.

So I have an office job.

So I have my headphones on pretty much all day and I was listening to.

I was just listening to it kind of on repeat for the past two days.

And I actually do.

I guess I agree.

I actually never wanted to be this person.

But because I like a lot of.

I like a lot of instrumental music.

I'm kind of.

I'm actually a very.

I'm a huge jazz fan.

Uh huh.

Yeah.

But jazz fan.

Jazz to me is not evocative.

Except certain, certain music is associated with certain, I guess, cinematic themes.

But other than that it doesn't feel evocative to me, but your music actually does, now that you're bringing it up.

And I didn't.

I mean, I didn't make the.

Actually didn't.

I'm not.

I kind of just listened to it over and over again, but I didn't read the titles, and I didn't look at the title of the al.

I looked at the title of the album briefly, but then I just.

Mostly was just, like, in this meditative state, listening to it for two days straight.

And there were definitely moments where I felt.

There's lots of things that I'm curious about, but there were definitely moments where I actually was picturing actual, real scenes of some sort.

I can't recall, but it was cinematic in a way.

Right.

So there was.

There were some certain elements and certain event moments in the music where I was thinking, oh, this is like some dramatic scene in a movie or something.

So it was actually literally evocative of something from time to time.

I was also struck by.

There were.

It was, like, meditative in many ways.

Right.

Many of the.

Many of the songs were kind of were just, frankly, meditative.

They were very.

There were.

There was.

A lot of them had drones.

And then there were melodies going over, repeated melodies, other elements that were coming in.

It's not rhythmic.

Right.

There was no.

There was no.

There was no pulse.

Steady rhythm in many of them.

Right.

So it was, like, very meditative, actually.

It was great to just have on all the time, except that sometimes it was, you know, kind of intense a little bit.

So.

Yeah, so I'm.

Yeah, I'm actually just really curious about what made you make a record like this.

And if there were specific things that inspired specific songs, that sort of thing.

I'm particularly curious about that.

Yeah.

So I was doing this project called Earth Singing during COVID because, of course, as you know, everything was canceled.

It was pretty horrible for most musicians.

There's things that you worked on for, like, a year, two sometimes, and then it was just gone.

So I had been developing, like, this project where I was going out into nature and recording myself sing live, but, like, in various natural locations.

So some of them would be, like, quite echoey.

You'd find these natural amphitheaters out in nature.

So if you go, like, on top of a mountain, for example, sometimes I would, like, hike up a tall mountain, and then on the top I would just record myself singing, whatever.

And just to kind of get the effect of what the acoustic was like in this natural amphitheater.

So it Was like this little project I started and it just started as little clips.

But then in, during COVID I started doing like full music videos.

I had my friend record the piano part and then I had it with an earbud in my ear and I would go up into these wild locations and I would record these live music videos.

Yeah, I was going to ask about that because I noticed that you were standing out on a cliff or something or in a forest.

But there was also accompaniment, so I knew there had to be some sort of something.

Yeah, Collaboration.

Right.

So my and my friend recorded the.

The piano and then I would just mount the piano on top of the live recorded track and then have like a full on music video.

But while I was doing this, like, I would tend to like warm up and just do my vocalizations like in these wild places.

And I was just really inspired by like that natural acoustic and the sounds that the human voice makes.

And that sort of evolved into creating like these full on tracks where I would have an idea in my head.

I would usually start with like either a melody or like a base kind of something that would create some sort of a pulse.

And then I would just loop some of those and then start layering on top.

And a lot of those tracks are totally improvised, so it would be like in one sitting.

I would just kind of come up with it as I went and it was a very meditative experience for me.

And a lot of the time I was also thinking like I wanted to be a meditative experience for the listener.

But then also there's a couple tracks which probably the ones you mentioned, that are very intense and that was actually done on purpose.

So I.

I had this vision in mind that like someone would be coming in for like a yoga like session where maybe they want to deal with some trauma or anxiety, let's say.

And I would get them to like lie down and like listen to this track where first you have all this chaos with the sounds and like a lot of dissonance.

And then by the end of the track there is a resolution and I.

And I feel like it can be therapeutic actually.

So I was actually very happy to hear what you were saying when you were listening to it, because I like to get feedback like that because then I know I'm sort of on the right track of what I want to do with these pieces.

Yeah, I don't know if I got off track there a little bit, but.

No, I think that was great.

I think that you're right though also about the aspect of having that tension and release.

Yeah, I.

I'm just speculating, but I.

But I.

I actually do think that there is an element where the first track is like a cacophony or something.

Right.

Yeah, that was.

That was.

It was certainly unsettling a little bit because it was like, you know, kind of like.

I don't know, just.

So there's definitely an emotional component and probably a chemical component as well in your body as you listen to the songs and then when there is a release.

Because the very next song, I think, was also, like, if I'm not mistaken, it was like a one to the four back and forth, and it was very harmonic, and it was very consonant.

And so there was a nice dichotomy there because the first song was like, oh, gosh, I feel a little bit.

A little bit, like, attacked a little bit.

And then I was like, oh, there's the resolution.

Oh, yes.

And of course, I'm a sucker for plagal cadence.

You know, it's like, for me, I don't want to hear 5:1 because it just sounds too.

It's like, too much, you know, it's just like the one to the four is just so.

Is just so relaxing.

And so, you know, I don't know.

It's just like.

It feels spiritual to me or something.

Yeah.

Oh, I like that a lot.

Did you.

So.

So I also noticed there were.

There's actually two.

There was.

There were two things.

So some of them were kind of a little modal.

And I was curious if you had a specific.

Like, if you did that on purpose.

And I wasn't listening so closely that I.

I wasn't doing, like, active listening where I was like, oh, this one's in the, you know, a particular mode or that.

But I did notice a few of them were modal.

I was just curious if you did that at all on purpose or was it just sort of like just by feeling or whatever came to you in that moment.

You know, in all honesty, like, most of it, I would say just like, whatever came to me in the moment.

So, like, I'm not overly thinking, like, okay, I'm gonna do a 5 one here, or make it modal.

However, I'm sure that there is influence of, like, chant, which would explain the.

The modal stuff.

I definitely am influenced by, like, throat singing.

Like, Tuvan throat singing.

Yeah.

Tibetan monk chant, things like that.

And then also even like, very, very early classical music.

So, like, from the, like, sacred music, like, so Christian monks chant, stuff like that.

I'm sure that there's influence in my head.

Like that caused some of those modalities to happen.

Yeah, I was kind of hearing that and actually it brought something up again for me because I did listen to the entire album on repeat.

But actually what was.

It's almost like the songs, I think we could dig a little deeper into them if we wanted to and find that each one is its own sort of.

I don't know, each one is its own vibe.

Let's just to give it a very broad term.

It was actually really effective for me at first.

I was just looping one because they're actually kind of short.

Each one.

Yeah, they're like, like tiny tone poems or something.

Right.

So.

So if they were only a minute or two long or even or something like that, you could just loop one of them.

Yeah, and I did that.

I kept.

There was.

There were times when I just kept one on loop for a while and then it was sort of like put me into a different.

Into a space and it was kind of.

It was beautiful and meditative in that way.

So I.

That's.

I almost feel like it's.

It's an album, but it's also like it can be used for some kind of, you know, it's like functional in a way.

You know, I guess all music is functional, but specifically it's like functional because it's.

It's so, I don't know, moody.

So you can.

You can just take one of these tracks, put it on a loop and, you know, allow yourself to get into a mood from it.

Yeah, exactly.

Pretty neat.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that, that is like one of my intentions too.

And like I mentioned earlier that I'd be interested in trying it like as a therapy for people.

Yeah.

Like especially some of the tracks, like the ones especially that have like a lot of dissonance and chaos and then that resolve by the end of the track.

And I might use that because I do this class, it's called Vocal Yoga for people that don't want to necessarily have like full on voice lessons.

And it's like a group setting too, so you kind of feel safe in a group and you don't have to be put on the spot and like sing by yourself.

But it's mostly like breath work.

So like it's treats a lot of anxiety issues in people and then like just very simple vocalizing in a safe way where.

And I show people how to like open their mouth properly and create a nice resonance but in a group setting.

So.

And then we do chanting together.

So I was thinking to add into the class, actually, to have people lie down and, like, listen to one of those tracks and just see, like, maybe do, like, a little guinea pig session.

See how people feel with it.

And if it's effective, then to maybe kind of bring that into my.

My own practice, like, teaching.

Yeah, that sounds.

I think that's a very, like, appropriate thing to think of, for sure, because it's definitely useful in that way.

Yeah.

Okay.

So actually, before we move on, was there anything we missed about the album, actually?

Well, I had one more question, but you go ahead.

If there was something you just thought of.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, so one thing, because you actually mentioned it, that you thought even of, like, cinematic stuff.

And that is something, like, I forgot to mention.

Like, I am, like, when I was young and, like, before I even started taking voice lessons, I was so influenced by, like, movie scores, and I was always.

And especially Lisa Gerard, like I mentioned.

So that's Hans Simmer, the composer for.

And he's done, like, so many different, like, film soundtracks.

And I'd say he's probably, like, the most influential for me.

I just, like, love his music and the atmosphere he creates with his music.

So.

Yeah, so that's also something that definitely influenced me.

And I was also thinking of, like, scenes.

You know, I had scenes in my head as I was, like, improvising these numbers and.

Yeah, cool.

Yeah, I could see that because it was, like we discussed earlier, it was definitely cinematic in some ways.

What's your recording process for these?

So it started off very simple.

I mean, I literally just had my phone when I first started, and I decided to loop a couple different vocal tracks.

And then I thought, hey, this sounds kind of cool.

And actually, by the way, then it turned into that first track that I ever did was the Travel and Discovery chorus, which is on the album.

So it was like, actually the first one that I actually put together.

I kind of glued the loops together and I thought it sounded kind of cool.

So then I sort of kept doing it every so often, and then it ended up that I had enough material to put an album together after about a year or so.

But, yeah, where was I going with that?

Again, sorry.

Because it was the recording process.

Right, right.

Okay.

Just simply on my phone, like, just using, like, the voice recorder.

Yeah.

And then, like, I went a little bit further with.

I use an app called Band Lab, which is really great for, like, looping.

Yeah, yeah, Band Lab.

And you can loop really easily, which is what I look for, of course, because I want to record and then loop stuff together.

And you can also add a little bit of reverb very easily.

I also use Audacity and I use Ableton.

Yeah, yeah.

Have you ever now, well, just as we're chit chatting, I always think of more and more things to ask you about, but have you ever considered putting any of this over, like, or introducing instrumental elements of any sort or.

Actually, I did notice there were a lot of tonal elements to what you're doing, so there were times when your voice was emulating other.

Maybe not a specific instrument, but it was more instrumental for sure.

And then.

And so that was part of it.

But I guess I was curious whether you were maybe contemplating introducing any sort of either more rhythmic elements or instrumental elements at all, or are you just.

Going to do all voice so well right now?

I guess I call it vocals only.

So right now I'm sticking to the voice and I am trying absolutely like what you're saying, you know, because I use even like super low parts of my voice.

I.

With a lot of excess air, actually.

Because you wouldn't be able to even phonate unless I had excess air there.

So I do that.

But yeah, more rhythmic elements for sure, but using the voice and maybe like snapping or clapping.

But I kind of want to stick to like using my own body for it.

Maybe introducing some sounds from nature, like maybe crickets or water streaming through.

But I.

I kind of wanted to keep that natural aspect of like, this is just like me in nature and my natural voice and only my voice doing it.

Now, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't collaborate, like with people.

Right.

Like, if there's like a band or like a string quartet and we could do a collaboration.

For sure, for sure.

But it would be like.

And even if I did it, like where I'm the main artist and if there's like a string quartet behind me, then it would be like a different project.

Right.

It wouldn't be the vocals only.

The vocals only.

Yeah.

I think that maybe you should pursue, if you're not already trying to get some of the tracks licensed for film, because I could definitely see a lot of them fitting over a lot of different types of scenes.

Yeah.

You know, even repeated, there were a lot of points in time where I just thought, oh, this would be it sound.

There were times when it sounded actually actively like a movie score.

Like, there was definitely a very powerful visual that was inspired by certain tracks.

But of course everybody's different, so maybe the next person who listens to it might have, you know, certain tracks they you know, they, they're inspired by or.

Or what, whatever.

But I don't know if you.

Have you thought of that?

Probably.

So I do it like on the.

Through CD Baby.

Like that's where I released it.

So it is technically like in the cloud where it could be found by whoever.

But I haven't like put the time into like seeking maybe an agent or someone like that that could actually help me put the music in front of the people that.

That could really make it happen.

So that's something.

Yeah, I want to do it.

That's hard though.

You know, like, it's such a competitive feel.

Yes.

Yeah.

I distribute through CD Baby as well and they used to have a team that you could reach out to and sort of pitch your stuff to them and then they would go out and pitch your stuff.

They may still.

They used to have a great call in service where you could actually speak to a human being and they were pretty knowledgeable.

But I think that they've gone.

They've done away with that.

So I think it's all chat and email now.

But they may still have the service.

Yeah, yeah.

And they have a podcast too, where you can call in and ask them directly on the podcast and they'll answer.

They'll answer your question on the show.

Okay.

So worst case scenario, you can call them out in public and ask them.

To do it for you.

Have you ever considered singing?

So just so people who haven't heard the record.

There are no words.

It's just vocalizations, but there are no words.

Have you considered using words?

Yes, I have.

I have.

Where are you on that?

I'm just.

This is all my curious.

These are my curiosities.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

I have written songs in the past, like with.

But that was more for like voice and guitar, let's say, where I had like poetry ready and all that.

I find that when I do this particular stuff, like words don't come as an inspiration.

It's more like images and like scenes.

And it's almost like I'm trying to reenact like a string orchestra with my voice kind of thing.

But it's maybe something, maybe something I would do.

The poetry is I would want the right words to come into my mind so that I don't.

I.

You know how like they are very evocative, the pieces.

And people can kind of create their own scenes in their mind when they're listening to it.

So I don't want to dictate like what someone is going to feel or see in their mind.

When they're listening to this particular music.

But you never know how things evolve.

Like, maybe I will.

Maybe I'll add words more.

I am already working, like, on the next record, and I don't have anything with words just yet.

Cool.

Okay.

So we're getting to the point in the podcast where I have to stop just going on tangents and asking you everything I'm curious about and just ask a couple of, like, last important questions.

So the first thing is actually, before we move on from that particular record, was there anything else you wanted to talk about with that record?

No, no, I think we covered a lot.

And yeah, I'm very happy that you were interested in it and wanted to have me on.

Thank you.

Yeah, I enjoyed.

I really enjoyed listening to it.

I just, like, it was like.

It got me into a real vibe for these past two days that I feel like.

I don't know, it just.

It became a part of my life for two days.

You know, in a way.

Nice.

It was so happy to hear that.

Feeling your vibe and just, you know, and just, I don't know, just like letting the music influence me throughout my day, which I have a luxury of being able to do.

So I guess lucky to be able to do that and then lucky that we connected.

So what are your.

You just said you're working on an album, but what other future music plans would you like to let me know and let everyone know about?

Well, so as you know, I.

Aside from doing this original music, I also am a performer and I continue to do a lot of classical concerts, so a lot of recital work.

I've also been really developing a bit of a.

Like a music scene, I guess I would say, because there.

There isn't much of a classical music scene where I live, and that's in internal British Columbia.

I live, like, in this tiny little mountain town.

It's gorgeous there and also very inspiring for what I do.

So I love being there.

But I was living in big cities, like in the past, like Los Angeles, Boston, New York.

So it's quite a big change.

But anyway, so in a small town like that, like, you often don't have much of a classical music scene at all.

And we have a little.

We have a little one here where I live.

Yeah, in New York.

So, yeah, New York is great.

I mean, that's the place to be, especially for young artists, right?

Like that.

Yeah, for young.

For me, like, New York was a bit too chaotic, you know, So I am happy, like, being in a smaller town, but.

But, like, the culture and the easy access to, like, perform and even audition for stuff.

Like, it's.

It's not that easy.

So I've been building, like, my own thing there.

I've been teaching a lot.

I've been doing vocal workshops in group settings.

And then also I've been, like, performing and I found a pianist that's.

That drives two hours to come do performances with me.

And we've been performing in the area, so hopefully we can do like a regular music series.

We just did a performance last week which went wonderful.

We had a huge turnout, which was great.

So that's something that I'm personally building.

Like, it means a lot to me to like, to actually offer that kind of performance.

And also the teaching I do, but the performance to a community like that that doesn't really have access to it.

So that's wonderful to do.

So that's something I'm building.

I've also got, like, other concerts coming up in various parts of Canada, hopefully in the US There's a couple things in talks, so maybe an opera in Los Angeles area and maybe a little tour of that, but we don't have exact details about that yet, so I can't really disclose it just yet.

And other future plans, I guess.

I'm also part of a summer music program, and I'm starting my very own vocal program.

I'm the first person to do it in this particular music program, also in the mountains not too far from where I live.

So that's also something I'm developing and.

Yeah, I think that's about it.

Just mentioned a few things.

Yeah.

And the vocals only stuff.

It's an ongoing thing, you know, when I get inspired, I'm like in a meditative mood, let's say.

Then I take out my recorder and I just.

I start to improvise and see what I come up with.

Cool.

Yeah.

So when you.

Well, actually, just in general, if you're ever, you know, performing nearby.

Let me think about this.

Yeah, if you're ever performing in New York, let me know, obviously.

But since we have this relationship with Bard, you can always let me know or let them know directly, obviously, if there's something going on that you want people to know about in a particular city, because there's, you know, we're all over the place.

This has become like the Bard podcast now.

Yeah, I get the emails from the Bard alumni associations.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So they're.

They're pretty.

They're good at promoting things, so.

But.

And I'll love to know when that the next record comes out.

Of course, we could have you back on the show.

I would be actually interested in collaborating maybe one day, because I am doing.

I'm working on maybe a couple of singles that are kind of like rock and roll singles.

But I was thinking of doing a couple of versions of a song where after the song is done, a part of the song loops for a long period of time, like 10 minutes, and it becomes kind of like this meditative sort of jam thing.

And I think maybe, you know, your style could potentially mesh with some of.

With some of that.

So we'll.

Sure.

Absolutely.

Definitely.

Let me know.

Yeah, we'll talk about that off camera.

And then.

So.

Okay, where can.

The last question.

The most important question, of course, is where can people find you your website?

And we put all the stuff, the links and everything in the show notes for people to find.

But where can people find you all your socials and your website and all that stuff?

Yeah, and you'll definitely need to put it down below, because my name is very hard to spell.

It's probably something, you know, like a lot of actors and stuff, they actually change their names so that people can remember them easily.

But nobody can remember my name except Polish people.

But.

Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah.

I love your name.

Oh, thank you.

I meet so many.

I meet so many people from that area.

And then when I hear them, they say, your name is Nadia.

And I say, oh, Nadia.

Okay, that's normal.

But your really name is Nadezhda.

And I'm like, oh, that's so much more.

Why don't you go?

That sounds so good.

Like, what?

You know what I mean?

Well, you know, when I first came to Canada and I was just in kindergarten, my.

I still remember this.

This woman, she was also Polish.

Like, she was kind of helping my parents around when we first arrived because none of us spoke English very well or at all.

And she, like, brought me to the school and she was like, okay, we're going to change the name to Kathy.

And then even though my name was Kasia is the short form of Katajana.

Yes.

And so even, like, family members and, you know, they call me Kasia.

And now, like, of course, all my friends, they call me Kasia.

You can call me Kasia, too, by the way.

So.

But she changed my name to Kathy, and I didn't have any say in that.

And so for up until high school, actually, yeah, I was known as Kathy.

And it always never felt right.

I was always, like, in my mind, like, it just was not my name.

And then when I got to school, I just was like.

I started introducing myself as Kasia.

Yeah.

And then just everyone called me Kasia instead of Kathy, you know, which.

Which wasn't me.

So I like how Katherine.

It's Catherine in Polish.

So you're.

Say your name again.

Katarzyna.

Katarzyna.

Katarzyna.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, that sounds so much nicer to me.

Yeah, I like the sound of that.

I was.

I.

I have a short story that I've been obsessed with, a Chekhov short story that I've been obsessed with for a really long time.

And I don't even know how the hell I stumbled upon it.

I think it was assigned to me as a reading in high school.

It's called the Little Joke.

And the girl's name is Nadinka.

And there's just something so, I don't know, just cute and romantic about it, you know?

Yeah.

They have cutesy forms of every name in these Slavic languages.

Oh, I think also.

Right.

So you can call me Kashenka, for example.

Kashenka.

Yes.

Okay.

Let's get off this subject because now this is too much for me.

I'm going to start to blush at this point.

Yeah.

So anyway, so.

Email.

Not email, but your.

Your website.

Yeah, yeah.

If I give my email, we can't get into the stories of the bad fans because I would not give my email.

Yeah, we don't.

We try to keep things very positive on this show.

That's another thing.

No, there's no bad mouthing or of anything.

Yeah.

Try to keep things as positive as possible.

Yeah, well, no, no, I'm talking about like, stalkers.

Oh, stalkers.

Forget a stalker, you have a stalker.

Oh, I had plenty.

Yeah, but that's, that's just if you're in any sort of like, public thing, like, you don't have to be famous, you just have like some kind of public image, then that's bound to happen.

Right?

Yes.

Let's move on from this.

We don't want stalkers.

Finally, finally, my socials.

So.

And my.

It'll be spelled below.

Right.

But it's always my full name, like at.

And then my Katajina Sunday.

So it's K a T A, R, Z, Y, N A, S a D, E, J.

And that's for Instagram, for Twitter, slash X.

It's actually Mezzo Sunday, so.

Mezzo.

And then my last name.

And I guess I can.

I'll send that to you.

Right.

Yeah.

Well, I'm going to put actual links so people will just click on them.

Got it, got it.

And Then Facebook, same thing.

It's onde my whole name.

And then what else is there?

Am I missing something?

Instagram, Facebook X.

Facebook X.

And then my website, which is just www.myname fullname.com.

Good.

And.

And your stuff.

I.

I streamed it on itunes.

I saw it was on.

It was on.

It's on all the streaming platforms.

It's on all streaming platforms.

You can find it on YouTube Music, Amazon Music.

And it's always.

If you search for my full name, like, it will come up.

And the album is called Evocations.

Got it.

Yeah.

Well, and we'll put your YouTube as well.

Oh, yes.

YouTube as well.

That's super important.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Good.

So this was wonderful.

Thank you so much.

It was really a pleasure to have you on the show.

I tell every guest that, you know, it makes my life and my job of doing this podcast so easy when we have lovely, interesting people to come on.

So I appreciate you for putting yourself out there and.

Yeah.

So we look forward to your future endeavors and having you back on when you're ready and all that stuff.

Yeah, I'd love to.

Thank you so much for having me.

I really appreciate that.

It's been so much fun.

Yeah, my pleasure.

Bye, Kasia.

Bye.