Track 2: Because the night before, he drank too much Travis Kelsey beers.

Track 2: That's right. Evan was drinking Travis Kelsey beers.

Track 1: I know. I was.

Track 2: What?

Track 3: Yeah. Is that a thing? Travis Kelsey beers.

Track 2: Is that a real? Wait. Yeah. For real? Yeah. Like it's branded Travis Kelsey?

Track 2: It's his beers. He has beers? Yeah. Okay. I didn't know that.

Track 2: I try not to know anything about him.

Track 3: Yeah. I found out when Evan was drinking them.

Track 2: Yeah. We found this out at the same moment. Well, I mean, you might have known.

Track 2: You're very up on your Swifty News. No, we did not know.

Track 2: We were not. Neither one of us did.

Track 1: It's like the new, cheap, decent beer that's everywhere.

Track 2: I could have used it.

Track 1: It's called like garage beer. It's actually not that bad, but I prefer not to support Travis Kelsey.

Track 2: Yeah. But you didn't buy it. Your friend did.

Track 1: I think we split it. There was like four bucks a beer.

Track 2: Wow. Contributing to Taylor Swift's billionaire status.

Track 3: You're helping her carbon footprint. it you ain't even got to worry about yours

Track 3: anymore you're helping hers it.

Track 1: Would be really funny to me if the beer like had a carbon neutral pledge or something.

Track 3: That shit would be insane never gonna happen though,

Track 3: Hello, and welcome to Left of the Projector. I am your host,

Track 3: Ward, back at it again with another film discussion from the left.

Track 3: If you'd like to support the show for as little as $3 a month,

Track 3: you can go to patreon.com forward slash left of the projector pod.

Track 3: If you'd like to dress in style, we've got shirts, and at leftoftheprojectorpod.threadless.com,

Track 3: you can grab one and show everyone you've got the best taste around.

Track 3: Wherever you're listening, give us a rating and subscribe, and you'll get notified

Track 3: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday. Now, on to the show.

Track 3: Welcome back to Left of the Projector with your hosts, Evan,

Track 3: Bill, and Ward. Today, we're joined by librarian and puppet aficionado, Jackie.

Track 2: Muppet aficionado.

Track 3: And we'll be discussing a Muppets Christmas Carol, originally released in 1992.

Track 3: It is a Muppets adaptation of Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol with a lot

Track 3: of historical accuracies. Jackie, how are you doing?

Track 2: Hi, good. I'm excited to talk Muppets, not puppets. Muppets. There's a distinction.

Track 2: Evan, you can't cut it out. You can't cut.

Track 3: You can't cut that out.

Track 2: No, you can't cut it.

Track 3: You got to leave in my mistake.

Track 2: You can cut it out. I could just really care about the distinction between Muppets

Track 2: and puppets, which honestly I do.

Track 1: I didn't realize that this was directed by Jim Henson's son in his first movie that he ever directed.

Track 1: He was like a puppeteer, but not a director.

Track 2: I believe this is the first movie after Jim Henson died.

Track 1: I think that's right.

Track 2: Which is, I believe, that's why Rolf has, Rolf is in it, but it's only a cameo

Track 2: and he has, like, no. Really?

Track 2: Yeah. I mean, why is that? Because Jim Henson did Rolf's voice and they wouldn't

Track 2: voice, they wouldn't give Rolf a voice out of, like, respect for Jim Henson

Track 2: passing for many, many, many years. Oh, okay. Okay.

Track 1: Yeah, he died two years before this, so it makes sense if this would have been the first one.

Track 2: It's almost like a tribute, a Rolf tribute, that's what you should say.

Track 2: Yeah, a little cameo. Yeah, I always loved Rolf.

Track 1: So what is everyone's history with this film?

Track 1: I know Ward very briefly only because it was his first time watching it.

Track 2: Really?

Track 3: Yeah, it was my first time watching. I was never a Muppets fan,

Track 3: never really big into them, not even really even as a kid. I watched really

Track 3: weird choices for a child.

Track 2: That's how we ended up here, all of us.

Track 3: Yeah, honestly, that is how I ended up here because I watched way too much Demolition Man.

Track 3: And then I heard about Evan doing an episode about Demolition Man.

Track 3: And I was like, I should have fucking been on that. And then, yeah, now I'm here now.

Track 3: But no, this was a great movie. I really enjoyed it.

Track 3: I thought it was a wonderful adaptation of A Christmas Story.

Track 3: And it was great. yeah just not a big muppets guy so it wasn't too familiar evan.

Track 2: What about you.

Track 1: So for me i never watched this as a

Track 1: kid i was more as far as

Track 1: like the muppet and sort of

Track 1: like sesame street other kind of puppet related things we

Track 1: had a bunch of the we had like the what was the vhs uh

Track 1: like follow that bird and the one where big bird goes

Track 1: to the history museum and we

Track 1: had the muppets um what

Track 1: is it one i think it was the one after this it's the uh pirates one never saw

Track 1: this one until only a few years ago and now it's become like we watched it last

Track 1: christmas we'll watch it we just watched it a couple days ago but we'll probably

Track 1: watch it again you know on christmas

Track 1: so it's it's a five it's five out of five i mean it's a great movie.

Track 3: Yeah no this is great i mean i watched it the first time um a few days ago for

Track 3: this episode and then immediately was like well now time to share it with my

Track 3: daughter and the family we're gonna have family movie night and watch this because

Track 3: this is fantastic you're muted.

Track 2: How did your daughter like it?

Track 3: Oh, she loved it. She thought it was fantastic.

Track 2: Did I clear my throat unmuted, then mute myself again previously?

Track 3: I don't think so.

Track 2: Okay.

Track 3: If you did, I wasn't paying attention.

Track 2: Awesome.

Track 3: Yeah, no, she loved it. She loved it so much that for the last three days on

Track 3: the way to her martial arts classes, we've been listening to nothing but Christmas

Track 3: music and mostly songs from the Muppets.

Track 2: Aw.

Track 3: Yeah. Which has replaced K-pop Demon Hunter, thankfully. Um, so appreciate it.

Track 2: I mean, those aren't good songs.

Track 3: They're good, but it's been a lot.

Track 2: It's been a while.

Track 3: It's been a lot.

Track 2: Yeah. Well, I guess I'll, I mean, I, I watched this growing up.

Track 2: Um, I was like, you know, I watched various Muppet things growing up,

Track 2: but I, it definitely, um, it took a different turn when I met our guest who

Track 2: is my wife for the listeners out there.

Track 2: This is the. Oh, you guys are strangers. Yeah, yeah.

Track 3: Oh, okay.

Track 2: For listeners who have heard me refer to my wife numerous times throughout episodes,

Track 2: especially according to her too many times in the last episode.

Track 2: A lot of Back to the Future.

Track 2: I was like, people are going to be like, please shut the fuck up about your

Track 2: wife. Like, nobody cares.

Track 3: I literally told him to call for you in that episode. I was like,

Track 3: get Jackie, get Jackie now.

Track 2: People know I was born in 1985. five they know i'm a big fan of aha's take on

Track 2: me that i really hate the train in the end of the movie hey.

Track 3: That's that's a.

Track 2: Common take amongst.

Track 3: People with taste.

Track 2: True so uh yeah so this is the uh the upon this is the wife i have spoken of

Track 2: who uh wow the wife oh the only one,

Track 2: Who I've spoken of at length.

Track 2: And it is a, it is, it has long been her tradition to watch it every Christmas,

Track 2: which I will, I will no longer take any time from her recounting of her experience

Track 2: with Muppets Christmas gal.

Track 2: I mean, it's not very exciting. I saw it as a kid, probably when it came out,

Track 2: little Jewish kid's favorite movie, Tale as Old as Time.

Track 2: No, I watched it all the time since we didn't celebrate Christmas.

Track 2: To me, it was like you didn't need to watch it on Christmas.

Track 2: You could just watch it any time. It's just a movie.

Track 2: It's a good movie. Why would I limit myself to like once a year?

Track 2: But then, yeah, I think it was like every Christmas Eve we would watch it.

Track 2: Every Christmas Eve. So for almost 20 years now, every Christmas Eve. Jesus.

Track 2: Yeah. Now I only watch it once a year. So I did cut back.

Track 2: Though I believe we have discussed we will be watching it again this Christmas

Track 2: Eve. After we've watched it already.

Track 2: Yeah, you watch it once for like scholarly purposes, you know,

Track 2: and then again for enjoyment.

Track 3: This is for work.

Track 2: Yeah, it's for work. That's why you can't go anywhere at work because you have work.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 1: Is this your favorite Christmas movie?

Track 2: Probably. I feel like there's, of Christmas movies, there's like real movies

Track 2: that you like actually appreciate and like are quality.

Track 2: And then there's like, to me, I love watching like the dumb Christmas movies too.

Track 2: So there'd be like separate categories of real actual good Christmas movies.

Track 2: This would probably be my favorite one.

Track 2: I feel like, is there a lot of competition? does anybody else think like having

Track 2: seen this do you really like in terms of like quality and like how good this

Track 2: is like is there a lot of competition for best christmas movie in comparison to this.

Track 1: I mean do you talk to some people i might i could say you could put home alone and.

Track 2: I'm talking to you guys home.

Track 3: Alone is my personal favorite.

Track 2: Christmas movie so so it's.

Track 3: Like those are two heavyweights like duking it out in those terms but like in

Track 3: terms of like the broad spectrum of christmas movies yeah absolutely not this like sweeps the floor.

Track 2: Like i have not actually seen or

Track 2: not for a long time all those like classic christmas movies

Track 2: that are supposed to be like the good ones like miracle on

Track 2: 34th street or um i can't think of anything else off the top of my head the

Track 2: ground christmas story christmas yeah well i've seen christmas day one which

Track 2: was that again you've already which one the groundhog day one where they he

Track 2: does the time oh did i talk black and white one oh oh.

Track 3: Yeah um it's a wonderful.

Track 2: Thank you yeah groundhog day yeah isn't it like groundhog day no oh okay well

Track 2: i haven't seen it in a really long time i think it's just like here's what the

Track 2: world would be like if you weren't in it oh it sucks okay,

Track 2: I don't know. That's what I remember. I haven't seen it in a long time. That's my summary.

Track 3: Yeah, I haven't seen it in so long.

Track 2: I think none of those compare. No. I think the only other, like,

Track 2: contemporary Christmas movie that stands up with, like, this or Home Alone is, in my opinion, L.

Track 3: I was really hoping you would just be like, Jingle All the Way.

Track 2: No, it's A Night Before Christmas, okay? That's my other. And when I say night,

Track 2: I mean K-N-I-G-H-T with Vanessa Hudgens, the night that travels forward in time.

Track 2: No, the best, not to get too off topic, the best bad Christmas movie is either

Track 2: The Spirit of Christmas or The Christmas Spirit. I don't remember what the title is.

Track 2: About a girl who stays at a haunted inn and falls in love with the ghost of

Track 2: a bootlegger and has to sell the house by Christmas Eve.

Track 2: And the end makes no sense at all. This is classic Christmas fair.

Track 2: But yeah, as for real movies, Muppets is the best. I'd have to say so. Other than Die Hard.

Track 1: I'm with you, Ward. Home Alone has just been there since I was a kid.

Track 1: So if I had watched this since I was a kid, it would be a different story.

Track 3: If I watched this as a kid, I could definitely be like, yeah,

Track 3: no, this is absolutely the best. But for me personally, I got to go with Home Alone.

Track 1: That's how I feel, too.

Track 2: I'm okay with that. I'm not mad at Home Alone. That's a great movie.

Track 2: No, Home Alone's a great movie. We should do an episode on just bad Christmas movies.

Track 3: Oh, that would be fun.

Track 2: We watch a lot of bad Christmas movies.

Track 1: Yeah, each person just could do their top five, like, worst.

Track 3: What was that one? Joy was wanting to rewatch it where it's like Santa's like a former Viking.

Track 2: Oh, wait. He's like, yeah, that's not a bad Christmas movie.

Track 2: That is Violent Night with David Pagano as Santa. Yeah, and that movie's great.

Track 3: Yeah, she's been wanting to rewatch that one.

Track 2: He is a former Viking who is Santa Claus and is a drunk. The Mrs. Claus in that is an axe.

Track 2: Oh, yeah.

Track 1: Yeah, there's also all of those films with, what's her name,

Track 1: Lacey Shabbert, who's like the Hallmark.

Track 2: Oh, yeah.

Track 1: I watched a few of those last year, and they're just pretty terrible.

Track 2: Did you watch Hot Frosty?

Track 1: I did.

Track 2: I'm sorry. And how good was that? And how good was Hot Frosty? I'm sorry.

Track 1: It was not good. It was not good.

Track 2: But it was, it's so bad, it's good, though. That movie is fucking funny. Oh, no. Yeah, I guess.

Track 1: Watched the Christmas quest which was her as well going on like this adventure.

Track 2: Oh yeah like National Treasure Christmas.

Track 1: Yes.

Track 2: Really boring.

Track 1: And it didn't really make any sense at all.

Track 2: No it was really boring. There was like no like there was no momentum to that movie.

Track 2: It's like it's the Christmas quest. It's like you guys are like really just

Track 2: kind of dragging your feet on this.

Track 3: Oh remember Jack Frost where the dad gets turned into a snow man.

Track 2: Yeah. Snowman Snow Dad is better than No Dad. Snow Dad is better than No Dad.

Track 1: You're.

Track 2: Don't make your competition how did this get made angry yeah our competition covered that.

Track 1: I mean when i think about like when i was thinking about this movie as

Track 1: i was just thinking about it it's it's almost what's most

Track 1: impressive to me is to make this movie with muppets just like this doing this

Track 1: story with muppets and then the one actor that they do get like put on like

Track 1: the greatest performance like i i always joke that michael kane should have

Track 1: like been nominated for an Oscar for his performance as Scrooge. 100%.

Track 3: No, like, absolutely. It's incredible.

Track 1: He's perfect. I mean, I joke, but I'm actually also serious.

Track 2: I mean, this movie is the start of the meme where it's like,

Track 2: cast a movie everyone is muppets

Track 2: but one person who's the person that stays human because

Track 2: muppets are people who is the one human actor

Track 2: that stays like this that's this is the beginning of that me this

Track 2: movie is the beginning of that me but it's like that thing there's he said like

Track 2: i'll do this but i'm going into it i'm playing it completely straight like i'm

Track 2: not acting like i'm in a kids movie or that it's a puppet or anything like i

Track 2: am performing this like it is this serious role and like it's amazing yeah it works perfect.

Track 1: It is impressive to be able to hold your i i would love to know if there was

Track 1: these takes where he you know didn't play it straight or it was like just started

Track 1: laughing because you know they were just messing with him with the muppet puppets.

Track 2: I have seen um a recent

Track 2: like clip from an interview where basically he talks about how like bean bunny

Track 2: is the one that like made him break this bean bunny is the cutest he's like

Track 2: bean bunny is the cute like one of the cutest things i've ever like experienced

Track 2: in my life and i couldn't like keep a straight face or like resist because bean

Track 2: bunny is just the most adorable creature like in the world oh.

Track 1: Like the little the one who goes against the turkey later.

Track 2: On yeah yes that's people yeah.

Track 1: I was also thinking i haven't i've never actually read the christmas carol i

Track 1: think you i hear that you have.

Track 2: Read the the book jackie so i like.

Track 1: Is this Also, I've heard that it's extremely accurate, you know,

Track 1: generally speaking, to the book.

Track 2: So, I read... Okay, I did read the book a long time ago. I kind of skimmed it

Track 2: again recently, just for, like, a better idea. And it is very close.

Track 2: I mean, just the fact that they have...

Track 2: Honestly, I'm not sure if I've ever seen another adaptation of A Christmas Carol

Track 2: now that I think about it.

Track 2: Why would you ever need one? But as far as I know, most or at least or maybe

Track 2: none of them have like actual like narration by like a Charles Dickens type character.

Track 2: So because they have Gonzo in that role, there's like a ton of the actual original text in there.

Track 2: Like most of what he says is straight out of the book um

Track 2: and most of it is pretty accurately like

Track 2: depicted i mean there's a couple

Track 2: just weird things left out um that i don't think is ever in any adaptations

Track 2: like the weird children that live under the ghost of christmas present um but

Track 2: nobody needs to see that what can you tell us about the children that live under

Track 2: the ghost now i forgot their names i one's want. That big race.

Track 2: Yeah, basically at the end of the like, so in the present one,

Track 2: it's like it is in the movie, but it.

Track 2: It goes a little further. Like he, the ghost takes Scrooge like all over the

Track 2: place. It's like, here's like a, this is like different neighborhoods.

Track 2: Here's like a jail, which actually I think there was a jail in the movie,

Track 2: but like they go like all around the world and see different people.

Track 2: And then the end he's, he gives him like a weird speech.

Track 2: And then, yeah, I can't remember what the other one is. It's like want and what

Track 2: is it? Ignorance? Ignorance and want.

Track 2: Yeah. And it's like, Oh, they're like, they're, they come out and they're like

Track 2: these weird little, like starving children. and it's, I don't know, it's just weird.

Track 2: I think it's fine. I think it's fine without it, yeah.

Track 3: Yeah, it sounds better without it.

Track 2: It feels like a thing that's very much, like, of its own. I'm not explaining

Track 2: it well, but yeah, it's definitely, like, a very, like, Victorian,

Track 2: like, look what you've done to these little children.

Track 2: Besides that, it's, like, bang on. Yeah.

Track 1: I love at the beginning when Gonzo's, like, he's saying that he's,

Track 1: you know, Charles Dickens, and Rose is like, no, you're not.

Track 1: And he's like, yeah, I am. I'm just telling this story.

Track 2: It's just like the back of my hand.

Track 3: That was so funny. Yeah, there's a scar.

Track 2: Gonzo is my favorite non-Sesame Street Muppet.

Track 1: Yeah, he's very funny.

Track 3: See, I don't know which ones are canon or not. I'm not a Muppet.

Track 2: They're all canon.

Track 3: They're Sesame Street.

Track 2: I think all Muppets are canon. Yeah. It's a Muppet.

Track 3: I don't know. See, I don't know.

Track 2: I used to love Sam the Eagle, but now it feels weird. He's so patriotic.

Track 3: God, I'm surrounded by nerds again, but I don't have Caitlin this time.

Track 1: I mean i mean it's hard not to also like animal and you know um i don't know

Track 1: gonzo is just like the classic character i remember also when i was a kid watching

Track 1: the like the muppet babies you also like.

Track 2: Gonzo in that too yeah so animal is great no no lie but this does so one of

Track 2: my favorites because of this movie is rizzo he's like the best which brings

Track 2: up a little bit of a sore spot which is the Rizzo erasure in our current day,

Track 2: which is that they seem to have erased.

Track 2: Rizzo's never in anything anymore, and they've substituted Pepe the prawn for Pepe.

Track 2: Which I'm not into, but I can always watch this movie for my Rizzo. Rizzo is great.

Track 1: Yeah, I wonder why that is.

Track 2: Because, like, have you seen, like, Muppets Take Manhattan? It's,

Track 2: like, all, like, the little New York rats and stuff. Like, they used to be in

Track 2: it all the time. I love those rats.

Track 1: Well, that was one of the things that I noted is the fact that,

Track 1: I mean, they have to have, I don't know, the creative choices exactly.

Track 1: I didn't listen to much, like, behind the scenes or anything about it.

Track 1: But that the like the rats who work for Ebenezer Scrooge are,

Track 1: you know, working as a rat to work for like a landlord type person.

Track 1: I just thought was like very funny to me.

Track 1: And as Rizzo's like there listening to the story with Gonzo, I don't know.

Track 2: But Scrooge is not a landlord.

Track 1: Not a landlord. Right.

Track 2: I actually just looked because I don't think it ever says exactly what he does.

Track 2: He's like. I mean, explains what he does. Business. Business.

Track 1: Yeah. What is his official? He's a business.

Track 2: Because he's a business man. Like, because it's... He's a money lender.

Track 1: A money lender.

Track 2: Is he?

Track 1: Okay.

Track 2: He's officially a money lender? I don't know. I just read it. I don't know.

Track 2: I don't think it says. I'm sorry. I think it's implied. In A Christmas Carol, it does say...

Track 2: That rents are due, and that's his favorite. Yeah. But he also collects mortgages.

Track 2: Yeah, I don't think he's actually, I don't think he owns properties.

Track 2: I think, yeah, I think he's like a lender or something. I don't know.

Track 1: Yeah, like in the description, like just on Wikipedia for his character,

Track 1: it just says like a businessman. He like, you know.

Track 3: Businessman doing business.

Track 1: Yeah, just like he's a capitalist or something.

Track 3: He's a filthy capitalist pig. That's all we need to know.

Track 2: He doesn't need an actual job. you get the idea yeah.

Track 1: He kicks people out of like an orphanage or whatever right he says later on

Track 1: like he's just he's just uh you know he's just like the personification of just

Track 1: an evil scrooge it's great that we have the that in turn because of this guy that's.

Track 2: In the the marley and marley song that they they were freezing with their little

Track 2: frostbitten teddy bears out on the street.

Track 1: Marley Marley. I think that's one of the best songs.

Track 2: It is. So, yeah, I definitely, growing up at least, never saw another Christmas

Track 2: Carol because I did not know until I was a full-on adult that there's only one

Track 2: Marley in the actual Christmas Carol.

Track 2: I had no idea that there were not just two Marleys.

Track 1: I didn't know that until you just told me right now.

Track 2: Really? Okay, I feel better.

Track 2: It works perfectly. It does work perfectly. They're like heckling old guys.

Track 2: But yeah, I just assumed there were two of them. It seemed fine to me.

Track 3: It's a great song, too.

Track 2: To go back to the accuracy, despite the fact that there are two Marlies...

Track 2: Yeah, that's the only thing. And no, that doesn't even matter.

Track 2: But like when they appear, they are in chains with lock boxes and money boxes,

Track 2: just like in the original book.

Track 2: Like it is incredibly accurate to the original story.

Track 1: The weird thing is in the, at least in the Wikipedia of actors and characters,

Track 1: it says that it's supposedly Statler and Waldorf, the Muppet characters.

Track 1: But it only lists Statler and only lists Jacob Marley. So because there is only

Track 1: one Marley, it technically doesn't list another.

Track 2: Wow. That's amazing. Wow.

Track 3: So Marley and friend.

Track 1: So Waldorf is not, is, is uncredited in this film. Poor guy,

Track 1: you know, he's grumpy enough already.

Track 2: That's it's the, the, the attributions from Muppets are so weird. What do you mean?

Track 2: Because it's like, because they're not, because they are, they're actually,

Track 2: they're attributed as like themselves as the Muppets.

Track 2: and that's why like in this case it's like you know it's like there's only one

Track 2: marley and it's not gonna be marley marley it would be marley and then because

Track 2: that's who's like you know he's being priest portraying marley and then there's

Track 2: the second character but they're not gonna change his name they're just gonna

Track 2: it's him it's the muppet waldorf i don't really that's fine.

Track 1: I just think.

Track 2: It's strange how like you know it's like gonzo as charles dickens i don't know

Track 2: it's the way that like Muppets like they are the actor Gonzo is the actor they

Track 2: are the actor oh I see what you're saying it's not they're.

Track 1: Not putting yeah like but if you look at the like in the Wikipedia thing too

Track 1: it'll say who is the performer who's performing a bunch of them and then it says.

Track 2: Do they really no one needs to know that so it says.

Track 1: You know it says like.

Track 2: Oh yeah so like Frank.

Track 1: Oz is like Piggy and.

Track 2: Like Fozzie like some.

Track 1: Of the famous ones or the.

Track 2: Fozzie Wick most well.

Track 1: Known ones or whatever I think he's still alive.

Track 2: Frank Oz didn't he like yeah yeah.

Track 1: He is 81 years old.

Track 2: Oh he's oops i killed him sorry i thought he died sorry frank oz.

Track 3: Yeah, any chance he had. Thanks, Jackie.

Track 2: He was going to be on this. Yeah, now he'll never come on.

Track 3: Yeah, we were going to get him on. I was about to make a challenge to him,

Track 3: like I do a lot of famous people, to come on the podcast and defend yourself.

Track 3: But now I can't do that because he's going to die.

Track 2: What did Frank Oz do that he needed to defend himself?

Track 3: I don't know.

Track 2: I was going to think of something.

Track 3: See, like every time I do it, I'm grasping at straws, all right?

Track 2: Yeah, but this is really tenuous. Defend yourself.

Track 1: I don't know if you can really criticize any of that.

Track 3: How do you feel justified having your man's hand inside of a woman puppet? Oh, my God.

Track 2: It's fucked up.

Track 3: Come on the podcast. Defend yourself if you don't die.

Track 2: If you don't die. Are you still alive? Come defend yourself.

Track 1: Frank Oz's publicist is going to sue us right now.

Track 3: If you died, I'm so sorry. Rest in peace. You're incredible.

Track 2: Oh, my God.

Track 1: But Frank Goss also is part of the Star Wars universe, too.

Track 2: Yeah, because Yoda. But Yoda's not in the only Star Wars that matters,

Track 2: so it doesn't... Right, of course. Who cares?

Track 1: Can they do a Muppet Star Wars? Is that possible? Probably not, right?

Track 2: I mean, Disney owns all of that stuff, so it's very possible. Yeah.

Track 3: They're plugging that shit into Sora AI now, too, so...

Track 1: I want to see.

Track 2: Pigs in space is basically Star Wars, so there you go.

Track 1: Who would play Andor with Muppet? You can think about it.

Track 3: I don't know enough about Muppets.

Track 2: Yeah, I'm going to have to think that over.

Track 3: Answer this.

Track 1: I'm going to say it's, I don't know. Waldorf would play, would play Luthan.

Track 2: I think it's Rizzo. I think Rizzo would play it. Rizzo?

Track 2: Okay. Come on.

Track 1: I'll take it.

Track 2: Why not?

Track 3: There's not enough Rizzo.

Track 2: Come on. That's 100% true. Rizzo is a working class character.

Track 2: He is a man of the people. He's salt of the earth. Rizzo would be Cassian.

Track 1: That's like, that actually is completely like going back to the action, to the movie.

Track 1: They don't, other than, you know, Ebenezer Scrooge, they don't really show you

Track 1: any other wealthy people.

Track 1: I mean, you have the people who work for him and then you have sort of the people

Track 1: in town, which presumably are all just sort of like peasant,

Track 1: you know, working class or worse.

Track 1: and they really present the idea that he is just screwing over the entire city somehow.

Track 1: This one guy is like causing London to just be this terrible place where,

Track 1: at least from what war you send me, some of the like laws that are happening

Track 1: in the 1850s during when this happens, it's a pretty miserable place to live.

Track 2: Yeah, it sounds good to me.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 2: I mean, they have a whole song about it, so.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 2: Everybody hates him.

Track 3: I mean.

Track 2: Even the vegetables don't like him, if you'll recall from the song. So funny.

Track 3: So funny.

Track 2: I think, I think it's very much like a, uh, I like to think of Scrooge as like

Track 2: representing the, it's almost, he, he represents the larger thing.

Track 2: It's like, this is, this is a neighborhood thing. The people in the neighborhood

Track 2: know who he is and like, you know, how shitty he is.

Track 2: I don't think people outside. And like, we do meet some other rich people during

Track 2: the ghost of Christmas future sequence. Yeah.

Track 1: Which is the pig gentleman.

Track 2: Yes. The pig, the gentleman pigs, um, spoiler alert when Scrooge dies in the future.

Track 2: Um, and they, even they don't, you know, which really just shows like,

Track 2: I feel like it doesn't even show so much that like, even they don't like him

Track 2: so much as just that entire class is made up of just self, like just selfish,

Track 2: soulless individuals who do not care about anybody or anything unless they can get something.

Track 2: thing out of it the thing i thought was interesting when i

Track 2: reread the actual book is it's

Track 2: pointed out in the beginning that scrooge is

Track 2: too cheap to like change the sign so it still just says

Track 2: scrooge and marley and people just call him either name because they don't even

Track 2: know which one he is and he'll just answer to anything he will respond to either

Track 2: one because it's it just so doesn't matter they just see him as just like this

Track 2: you know which to me really sounds like so it

Track 2: a description of alienate, like alienation as like Marx describes it,

Track 2: but like to the point where it's like.

Track 2: Even the capitalists, like, they are alienated from themselves and their labor.

Track 2: Like, alienation taken to the extreme. Yeah.

Track 2: Well, that's, like, the whole thing with this and him as a character is,

Track 2: like, it's, like, the thing I want.

Track 2: Like, his problem is not specifically, like, he doesn't like Christmas.

Track 2: His problem is that he has nobody in his life to care about.

Track 2: He, like, has no connections to anything. And that's, like, represented through

Track 2: Christmas because it's a time of, like, family and togetherness.

Track 2: But, like, his issue is that he's, like, a bitter person with absolutely no

Track 2: connections whatsoever.

Track 1: Right.

Track 2: He has no community.

Track 1: Yeah. He doesn't want the people to, uh, his co-workers, or I wouldn't call

Track 1: them his co-workers, his subordinates to, uh, like, Kermit and all the rats

Track 1: to have the day off because otherwise he would be alone. He doesn't like that.

Track 2: Yeah, it's, like, a waste to him.

Track 3: No, I like to see him as an evil capitalist who's trying to exploit all the profits.

Track 3: just seem as evil as possible.

Track 2: Yeah but it's like that's what it's like that's what

Track 2: they come that's what it comes down to it's like but we we know that

Track 2: like at it's like hard this is this system destroys

Track 2: everybody and everything within it even the people that purportedly you know

Track 2: profit from it you can't look at peter teal or uh you can't look at sam altman

Track 2: saying i couldn't imagine raising my child without chat gpt without thinking

Track 2: oh you are irrevocably broken like,

Track 2: you are damaged in a truly fundamental way yeah.

Track 1: Yeah that's that's why my i kind of i made this joke whenever maybe this is

Track 1: last year when i watched it was that like the reason you can tell this movie

Track 1: is fiction is because like a billionaire changed his ways you know like.

Track 2: Yeah that just.

Track 3: Wouldn't not the muppets never happened.

Track 2: But to be fair the muppets are fine yeah it's the thieves Yeah,

Track 2: yeah. The Muppets clearly could exist in real life.

Track 3: Yeah, the Muppet – yeah, there's no problem – I got no problems against the Muppets.

Track 3: I have problems with the petty bourgeois notions that are inherent to the story of Christmas, you know.

Track 2: But at the same time, you know, if the People's Revolution of China taught us

Track 2: anything, it's that they can – you know, you can –,

Track 2: redeem certain people i mean they did redeem you

Track 2: know the uh former whatever who the fuck was it the uh the chankai shag thank

Track 2: you they did reform him i got you he spent the rest of his life as a janitor

Track 2: humble and giving to other people yeah that's that's our world's christmas carol yeah.

Track 3: That's that's the marxist.

Track 2: Christmas carol.

Track 3: I mean even even evan was saying like in our group show is like like this very

Track 3: liberal notion of an ending where it's just like oh he's nice now instead of

Track 3: just like no longer a capitalist and.

Track 2: So he doesn't like get a new job he doesn't like change anything about his life

Track 2: except that he's like kind and like i i assume give some money away maybe i

Track 2: don't know but yeah he's just nice donate at christmas time now but.

Track 3: Like outside of that probably not gonna.

Track 1: Yeah he's just it's like the same shit he just he's like

Track 1: what i call you know the way that billionaires do it now they have

Track 1: charities and do stuff they're just laundering their reputation to like look

Track 1: good but they're still not changing anything about him like he whispers to the

Track 1: guys at the you know the was it the orphanage or wherever they're collecting

Track 1: the money from i'll give you this much money and then he's still going to make

Track 1: all these people pay their rent or whatever it's not like he.

Track 2: Right he'll just he'll give them a turkey at the same time yeah it's an interesting

Track 2: historical like notion because you know because capitalism as a system of oppression

Track 2: and exploitation came to be,

Track 2: dominant system under the industrial revolution and

Track 2: this is a time of like

Track 2: the full-throated industrial revolution like this is the industrial

Track 2: revolution underway that the notion the

Track 2: liberal notion that you can both exploit and oppress but be a good person by

Track 2: doing certain like performative acts but came it was birthed at the same time

Track 2: like it came about at the same exact time.

Track 3: Yeah i mean charles dickens himself like he his upbringing

Track 3: was petty bourgeois and then he was like later thrust into like poverty and

Track 3: then that's like that's where he gains like a bit of his class consciousness

Track 3: and we get those things here but like at the end of the day it's still very

Track 3: petty bourgeois notions of oh just appeal to the better nature and people can

Track 3: change and then people will come around to it and it's like that's not always the case big dog yeah.

Track 1: I was actually thinking about this. I know that because Marx was writing at the same time.

Track 1: They were writing simultaneously almost.

Track 1: And I wonder- Yeah.

Track 3: This was in 1843, which, I mean, follow what recently happened.

Track 3: We had the plug plot riots in 1842, and then you had a bit earlier the Poor

Track 3: Law Amendment Act of 1834, which really made conditions bad for the working class.

Track 3: To say that, hey, things can get better if the people oppressing us are just

Track 3: nicer in a Christmas story, yeah, pretty liberal.

Track 2: It is a, it is an interesting contrast that the two were at the same time. Yeah.

Track 1: I think I sent you both an article that was, someone was basically trying to

Track 1: compare that they're sort of, they had this, you know, not the same perspective

Track 1: on things at the time, but similar.

Track 1: And I don't know that I can see that. I mean, the way that Dickens is writing,

Track 1: you know, I don't see it that way.

Track 1: He's not looking to overthrow anything. He's just looking to reform something at best.

Track 3: Yeah, no, at best. I mean.

Track 2: What did you know.

Track 3: That just sounds.

Track 2: Like oh just that you had factual information that you didn't share with me

Track 2: you know I love a background I don't know,

Track 2: Oh, the article. I love reading context.

Track 2: How dare you withhold it from me? I think this was sent at the same time as

Track 2: the notes, and I missed that.

Track 3: Yeah, this was all right around the same time.

Track 2: Yeah, same.

Track 1: Yeah, like the source for the thing that I found wasn't exactly the best location.

Track 1: It was from the Washington Institute, which is in their culture,

Track 1: Christianity, or Christianity and culture section.

Track 1: So I don't even know when this came out. I couldn't get through the whole article.

Track 1: I'm like, this is just kind of nonsense.

Track 3: Yeah. One of the things I was talking about in terms of like the conditions

Track 3: of the time was like one of the reports from Children's Employment Commission

Track 3: in 1842 described how children were chained,

Track 3: belted and harnessed like dogs in a go cart crawling upon their hands and feet

Track 3: and dragging their heavy loads behind them.

Track 3: And Dickens decides we should appeal to the better nature. Yeah.

Track 3: They can be nice to us if we just show them that Christmas is a cool time.

Track 2: I do think that part of it is still like the notion, like, you know,

Track 2: there is the notion that like, you know, like you want to think well of,

Track 2: you know, and you want to hope for the better.

Track 2: And it's like, I still think at the time, you know, the, the idea of understanding the depth of this,

Track 2: of the nature of the system, you know, that he was writing this the same time

Track 2: Marx was writing a capital, the same time they were coming to understand these things.

Track 2: And that in and of itself, this is a form of budding understanding of the nature of the system.

Track 2: But you haven't gotten to the point where you really understand the depth of

Track 2: the system and you still think, oh wait, these are still other human beings.

Track 2: And it's like, they just hadn't come to that point, I feel like.

Track 2: It's not like now. I feel like not to keep doing this, but when I reread the book,

Track 2: there was a lot more of like the it is not just good or important,

Track 2: but it is like your job and like a human on this planet to like look out for

Track 2: your like fellow man to like have community like it's your responsibility kind of. Yeah.

Track 2: Which I think is something that doesn't fully ever translate to the movies.

Track 2: But it's like, if you think about the ghosts, like to me, the present is,

Track 2: I feel like what changes Scrooge the most, which is the part where he's shown

Track 2: like how other people live.

Track 2: Because the past, he sees it and he's like sad and he's like,

Track 2: leave me alone. I don't want to see this anymore.

Track 2: By the future, he's already like, yes, I want to see what's happening. I'll change.

Track 2: I promise. But like, to me, it's like the present that is what changes his character.

Track 2: And most of the present is seeing like, oh, this person that I work with every

Track 2: day has a home, has problems, can't afford like a nice meal.

Track 2: Yeah. He understands it is the abolishment of his alienation at that point because

Track 2: he starts to like actually understand the human condition and the fact that

Track 2: other people are humans. or Muppets or.

Track 3: Frogs and his role and involvement of it too what's that,

Track 3: And his role and involvement in that. Yeah.

Track 1: Yeah. The scene, too, where in the present one, where his family is just making

Track 1: jokes about how he's this horrible thing.

Track 2: I always find that scene so strange because Fred, it seems so counter to his

Track 2: character to all of a sudden just start dropping these fucking birds.

Track 2: And I'm like, why are you all of a sudden? He's so mean.

Track 2: It just seems unexpected. I mean, Scrooge is a total dick to him.

Track 2: Like, I don't think it's that bad if he's being behind his back.

Track 2: Like, he gave him no reason to be nice. I'm just surprised.

Track 2: It seemed unlike him. That's all. He had like an audience. He was playing a

Track 2: game. He had a great thing. He knew, you know, he knew what he was doing. But I do.

Track 1: It was funny.

Track 2: I do think that some of these like modern day judgments that we as like Marxists

Track 2: and leftists have about this,

Track 2: about this story and this movie in general are unduly harsh when taken in the

Track 2: context of the time and understanding the new,

Track 2: like the newly emerging conditions and people's understanding of it.

Track 2: Like, again, like not everyone is going to be Marx, you know,

Track 2: like it took Marx writing that and publishing it for people to like broadly to see it.

Track 2: The fact that Dickens wrote this, as far as it didn't go in our perspectives,

Track 2: in comparison to anything else, this is fucking, you know, of the time,

Track 2: revolutionary in and of itself.

Track 2: They're like, you need to look

Track 2: at other people's conditions and understand how you are affecting them.

Track 2: That in and of itself is pretty meaningful for the time.

Track 1: I mean, is that how people view it?

Track 3: Yeah, but I'm in hindsight in the future, and so I don't care. I'm going to shit on him.

Track 2: How smart could Dickens be if he couldn't see what was happening?

Track 3: Yeah, did Dickens consider human nature?

Track 2: I think Dickens is a very interesting character as an individual.

Track 2: He's a very interesting character.

Track 3: I was hoping you were saying as a Muppet.

Track 2: No, as a Muppet. He would be a great Muppet. Yeah, I mean, let's be real.

Track 2: Dickens is basically, was basically a Muppet.

Track 2: The man was known for being outlandish and foppish and dressing absurdly.

Track 2: He was... All of the... A rock star. He was the rock star of his day. Yeah.

Track 3: I'm glad you said that. I thought you were going to say he had a hand inside of him.

Track 2: Fun fact, he actually did have a parasitic twin, and that was a hand, and it was inside him.

Track 2: They found that out way later.

Track 3: The first Muppet.

Track 2: Yeah. What is a Muppet if not a parasitic twin? Also, he was felt. He was felt.

Track 2: No, though, but just on a superficial level, like Muppets, but with like Victorian

Track 2: facial hair, like those giant sideburns and stuff is just really funny.

Track 3: Hilarious.

Track 2: When they're pigs? When they're pigs, yeah.

Track 1: I don't, I don't know why it's the, one of the things that my kids really liked

Track 1: was the, like the penguin, the scene where the penguins are sort of just gliding

Track 1: along, skating along there. I mean, it seems like completely random.

Track 3: Penguins are always a great.

Track 2: Because it's like the magic of seeing Kermit ice skate, I think.

Track 1: Yeah, that's true.

Track 2: It's like all of a sudden, it's like the whole time you're like,

Track 2: you see Kermit doing stuff, you see the Muppets doing stuff,

Track 2: but it isn't until it, it is so rare you see them operating just like fully.

Track 2: autonomously and it's like oh it's like the magic like hits home it's like they

Track 2: become full beings in a way they're not usually like that scene in is it when

Track 2: the Muppets may take my hand where like Kermit and Fozzie are on the bikes,

Track 2: I can't remember which one it's from but yeah I know what you're talking about that scene is like,

Track 2: it's mind-blowing as a kid it's mind-blowing it might be the um a kid or yeah whatever whatever,

Track 2: Muppet movie. I was going to say the penguins are cute, so they're appealing

Track 2: to kids, but that's a much nicer reason.

Track 3: That's what I was going with, too.

Track 2: Yeah. Because it's also like it's a nice moment. It's like, oh,

Track 2: they're closing up for Christmas. They're walking down the street together.

Track 2: Oh, look at these penguins. They're having a party.

Track 2: Everybody's happy and enjoying everything.

Track 1: Yeah, I guess that's like plays on too, is that Scrooge sort of come,

Track 1: you know, when he comes through, everyone sort of, he ruins this festive atmosphere

Track 1: that everyone has because they have to bite their tongue when Scrooge comes through or something.

Track 2: That's so true. Like he walks down the street and people sing about how bad

Track 2: he is. And like Kermit walks down the street and he like joins into a party right away.

Track 1: Yeah, we didn't talk about Kermit's family, where Kermit is sort of the,

Track 1: his, I guess you could say he's like the, I don't know, they don't say what

Track 1: his actual job is, but he's sort of like the one below him. He's like a clerk.

Track 1: But getting paid peanuts.

Track 2: He's the head clerk.

Track 1: Yeah. But getting paid poorly, which Scrooge sees later in the,

Track 1: you know, the Christmas present where he sees his house and,

Track 1: you know, his tiny, tiny Christmas meal and, you know, his sick Tiny Tim.

Track 1: Even though my kids had seen it before, they're like, does Tiny Tim die?

Track 1: I'm like, no, he doesn't. Remember, he says that line later.

Track 2: He does not die. Very clearly stated. Also directly from the book,

Track 2: in all caps, does not die.

Track 2: Why? Because was it originally he did die?

Track 2: I think it was just that it wasn't clear. He didn't make it clear or something.

Track 2: And people were like, what the hell happened to Tiny Tim?

Track 2: He did not die.

Track 3: You just can't introduce Tiny Tim and then have us wonder.

Track 2: As a child, this tells you how bad a person I am. I found Tiny Tim to be really irritating.

Track 2: And I feel bad saying that, but his song is the worst one. He's just a little too good.

Track 2: It's saccharine. Yeah, a little bit too much. I mean, he's cute.

Track 1: Yeah, they play him up a bunch.

Track 2: Yeah. I think it's interesting, you know, that, like, you know, our main...

Track 2: like view of like the every man is Kermit,

Track 2: despite the fact that like the primary like exploited class of the time were

Track 2: the, the, were the working class of like the factories and like those kinds of things.

Track 2: And I think it's a furious choice to,

Track 2: and I think, I don't know if Dickens did this intentionally, but like,

Track 2: that the that the exploitation that

Track 2: that is actually where it starts that it's like you it's

Track 2: easy to look at a factory and go this is bad it is

Track 2: easy to look at children being chained to like things and treated like dogs

Track 2: you know and be like oh that's bad but it is also easy to miss the thing perpetuating

Track 2: that and that is the capital class not you know if it wasn't for that.

Track 2: Wouldn't exist it's like why there's a difference like early

Track 2: today uh jackie shared like i think it

Track 2: was like why i'm a marxist not an economist and

Track 2: like the difference between being a marxist and an economist and what it is

Track 2: is understanding capital relation and how that drives these things and it's

Track 2: like you look at a factory oh this is economy this is you know It's business,

Track 2: as Sam the Eagle would say. Um...

Track 2: The American way. But when you look at, you have to look at the thing behind it.

Track 2: You have to look at Scrooge and his worker who was also exploited as part of

Track 2: the system that it, you know, creates hyper exploitation.

Track 2: I think it's an interesting decision to focus on that.

Track 2: Yeah, like it's not the easy choice. Yeah. it's not the easy choice to just

Track 2: like because it does imply that you can't just improve working conditions you

Track 2: need to stop this part of it because this is the part that drives it.

Track 3: You heard it here Bill is calling out Charles Dickens come on the podcast defend yourself.

Track 2: I'm gonna dig his body up ghosts okay we know these ghosts are real he could

Track 2: just visit you as a ghost no problem yeah the.

Track 3: Ghost of Dickens class is gonna we will bare minimum except Gonzo.

Track 2: To come on. We'll accept Gonzo.

Track 3: We'll accept Gonzo.

Track 2: Gonzo on the podcast.

Track 3: Gonzo, come on the podcast. Gonzo, defend yourself.

Track 1: Who plays his, I can't remember who plays his, oh, he's David Goels or Goels.

Track 2: Who?

Track 1: I think he's the guy who plays his, like his, the puppeteer for him.

Track 3: He can come along too.

Track 2: But we're requesting Gonzo. Stop talking about the supposed people behind the Muppets, okay?

Track 2: I'm going to need you to stop that. Right?

Track 1: It's just Gonzo.

Track 2: It's just Gonzo. I don't need to know anything about those people.

Track 1: They're not real.

Track 2: What people? Exactly. What people?

Track 3: I didn't see any people in the skating scene.

Track 2: I didn't see that.

Track 2: When Rizzo went through the, when he walked through the gate,

Track 2: could he have done that if there was a person there? No. That's true.

Track 2: Could he have done that if there's a human there? No human could fit through

Track 2: those bars. No human could fit through those bars. Gonzo couldn't fit through those bars.

Track 1: I like when Rizzo falls into the, like, the ice, and then he goes into the party,

Track 1: and he, like, thaws him out. Like, he breaks the ice, and he pops out.

Track 2: There's so many good little Rizzo gags. Like, there's, he uses him to,

Track 2: like, wipe the window off.

Track 2: At one point, he uses him to, like, blow on the fire as, like,

Track 2: I don't know what those things are. You know those little. Bellows. Bellows, thank you.

Track 3: Yeah, that was so good.

Track 2: Thank you for making me a part of this, Mr. Dickens.

Track 1: When he starts flying too, he just starts freaking out.

Track 2: Yeah. You know what I love also for the Gonzo lover here?

Track 2: That they still include Gonzo's love of chickens in this in like little subtle ways.

Track 2: Like he meets a chicken on the way to the past and, you know,

Track 2: gets to know her and knows her name and stuff. And when they go to the party,

Track 2: the chicken walks by and he gives her like the up and down. He goes, he's like, whoa.

Track 1: Wait, but doesn't he also say that they own a chicken factory?

Track 2: It's a rubber chicken factory.

Track 1: Rubber chicken factory.

Track 3: Rubber chicken factory, yeah.

Track 1: Yeah.

Track 2: I guess real chickens also work at the rubber chicken factory.

Track 2: Yeah, well, they're the models.

Track 1: I kept thinking about that holiday party as, like, you know,

Track 1: you give your employees, like, a pizza party during the holidays to make them

Track 1: forget how you're exploiting them.

Track 2: Yeah, that's definitely the way.

Track 3: That's very the vibe.

Track 2: Yeah, that's definitely the way we would say it, but it's ironic.

Track 2: Like, probably not the of the time.

Track 2: Well, I think it was like expected. Like you take care of. Yeah.

Track 2: It's like the, well, it's like the very like.

Track 2: It goes back to the feudal time. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I like have no brain

Track 2: today. Where the peasants.

Track 2: Right. Like the Lord would like provide for them on that day,

Track 2: which I'm not saying it's not like fucked up that they're serfdom, but.

Track 2: But yeah, like it's, it's described as very like, oh, he's Fezziwig slash Fozziwig,

Track 2: which is like, so they must've been so excited when they're like Fezziwig.

Track 2: Like, we know exactly who to put in this role.

Track 3: Perfect.

Track 2: But, yeah, he's supposed to be great.

Track 2: But it is. It's like, we don't, I don't know how he treats anybody any other

Track 2: time. The only time we see him is throwing a party.

Track 2: Well, Scrooge does say he was as harsh and ruthless as a rose petal.

Track 2: That's true. You have to assume he was always very kind.

Track 1: Well, doesn't Scrooge also make, he makes a comment like, oh,

Track 1: why would you waste your money on this party? Yeah.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: Did he say that?

Track 2: Yes. At the party. At the party.

Track 1: Why would you?

Track 1: He's like, this is stupid. We could just not do this and save all that money.

Track 2: Yeah, it's very much a thing of the time because, like,

Track 2: Dickens was hearkening back to a time, a previous time that he was nostalgic

Track 2: for and in which the people in power were expected to care for other people.

Track 2: Which is, again, like, we have gotten to the point where, like.

Track 2: There was a time where even as terrible as it was, like, feudalism was fucking bad.

Track 2: like no lie feudalism was

Track 2: bad and no one is trying to defend it

Track 2: but like it was expected there was

Track 2: a time which it was expected if you were a person of power you it

Track 2: was expected you take you took care of people

Track 2: and like that is the antithesis

Track 2: of like modern capitalist system it's like

Track 2: no like you are beholden

Track 2: you know it's like you you it's expected

Track 2: that you serve at my you know like leisure

Track 2: yeah well it's like when the whole

Track 2: thing comes up about having the day off like you

Track 2: can tell when you're like reading it it's it's like

Track 2: it's expected that like they will

Track 2: get paid they're getting a paid day off scrooge is

Track 2: not like pissed off because he like is missing like because he

Track 2: like wants to work that day he's annoyed because he has to like you know

Track 2: waste money paying them on this day and

Track 2: like nowadays it would never be like a suit like even scrooge would never be

Track 2: like well i can't not pay you but so even he was better than like it is now

Track 2: it really seems like it's like to go again to go back to like the idea that

Track 2: like you know Dickens and Marks were right at the same time.

Track 2: And it's like in its own way.

Track 2: A Christmas Carol is a prescient look at the nature of capital as it evolved

Track 2: in the way in which capitalists like moved forward and changed the culture and became more and more.

Track 2: And because like, that's who Scrooge was.

Track 2: Scrooge was who we think of as like a capitalist and a, you know,

Track 2: exploiter in the modern sense of the word.

Track 2: and even at the time he was like this is

Track 2: where it's gonna go and this is where it's gonna they're all

Track 2: gonna be like this don't and it

Track 2: is a it is a kind of prescient look at like what the future will be like man

Track 2: this almost feels dystopic now fuck it feels like just pig businessmen everywhere

Track 2: It feels dystopic when you think about it that way,

Track 2: but it is like, I can't help but see it that way.

Track 2: It's like, they're like, oh yeah, like this is what they're all going to be

Track 2: like, where they just forgot every bit of humanity.

Track 2: And became Peter Thiel's and Sam Mullen's.

Track 2: Well, I think that's why, like I was saying earlier, that like Christmas is

Track 2: not necessarily the main point.

Track 2: I think that's why every like adaptation is like, Christmas,

Track 2: he doesn't like Christmas.

Track 2: Can you believe it? Because it's a lot easier to think this guy is bad because

Track 2: he doesn't like Christmas.

Track 2: And once he likes Christmas, everything's fine.

Track 2: Instead of having to think like the harder thing, which is like,

Track 2: he's a bad person because he doesn't have community. He doesn't care for people.

Track 2: He has no responsibility for people. and he has to learn that to become a better

Track 2: person yeah instead of just like all right christmas sounds fun like i'll do christmas.

Track 3: I mean no i i agree with you

Track 3: bill when you're like talking i was very dystopian where it's like

Track 3: yeah no like at least like back then we had notions of like oh

Track 3: at least they take care of people but now it's just like they're all

Track 3: peter teals and it's like even with like a lot of

Track 3: the working class now too it's like you see like oh at least

Track 3: they had like some kind of class consciousness because like they all recognize

Track 3: scrooge as a sinner yeah it's like we've even lost that we've lost that amongst

Track 3: like the religious people where it's like recognizing these billionaires as

Track 3: fucking sinners why are you defending that is so true why are you defending them yeah.

Track 2: Yeah why are you.

Track 3: It's crazy why.

Track 2: Are you on the internet defending everyone hated scrooge yeah nobody thought

Track 2: like oh that's amazing like i could be that yeah all i need to do is work really

Track 2: hard and i'll like i'll be that yeah it's like you know it's we had At one point,

Track 2: it was understood that the union was the compromise between we will go to your

Track 2: house, beat you to death, and throw it down.

Track 2: And nowadays, it's like the union is the compromise in which you won't give

Track 2: us anything, but we have a union. Yeah.

Track 2: Your observation, this is going back, but about the stupid company pizza party,

Track 2: I just have to share real quick, my favorite holiday party I was ever treated

Track 2: to, which was, it was a staff training day slash holiday party.

Track 2: Our schedule for the day was, the morning was fire safety training.

Track 2: This was right before Christmas.

Track 2: They showed us videos about Christmas trees catching people's living rooms on fire.

Track 3: Then we had our- You got to make sure you water your tree.

Track 2: Exactly. Then we had our holiday lunch. And then after holiday lunch was active

Track 2: shooter training. America.

Track 2: It's the American way. It's the American way.

Track 3: It's the American way. You'll love it. It's the American way.

Track 2: So I would have loved that party instead.

Track 1: That scene in Christmas past when he goes to see his child, like his self as a school kid.

Track 1: And the teacher is telling him like, oh, yeah, this is the British,

Track 1: the British way or the American way.

Track 1: And then he has to whisper and he's like, oh, it's the British or the American

Track 1: way. the way yeah i like that joke so funny which it's all the same guy yeah.

Track 2: It's all i mean it's the birthplace of it it's where it came from thanks britain.

Track 1: Yeah way to go what's what do you what's all everyone's favorite song marley.

Track 3: And marley of course are you kidding me that one is awesome.

Track 1: It's really good.

Track 3: It's Marley and Marley. It's like... It's so good.

Track 1: And it looks pretty good given the way that they made it 30 years ago.

Track 1: Is that everyone's favorite? Is that just a consensus?

Track 2: Oh, man.

Track 3: Definitely mine.

Track 2: You know, it's Marley. I also really do like...

Track 2: one was is it one more sleep till christmas yes i do really where they have

Track 2: one more sleep till the penguin skating party but before that when they're like

Track 2: closing up yes i really do like for christmas that's nice oh the closing the

Track 2: when they're closing up the shop.

Track 3: I thought that was one of the weakest.

Track 2: Songs that's because did you watch the extended version i.

Track 3: Don't think i did.

Track 2: Whoa are you gonna shit talk that's because you missed you missed that

Track 2: one the love is gone oh i think

Track 2: so sorry okay well first

Track 2: of all i'll say maybe marley marley but possibly also

Track 2: the ghost of christmas presents like it feels like christmas song because that's

Track 2: just like really nice um i do like that one a lot um i think that song even

Track 2: though the the like cut out song even though it's like kind of slow and not

Track 2: amazing like it matters in the story it is that the sam The eagle song?

Track 2: Cut that. No. Oh, my God. I wish. The fact that they cut that song is actually

Track 2: really a poor choice. Yeah.

Track 2: So there's a song in the, I don't know which version you guys watch.

Track 2: There's a song in the past when his fiance breaks up with him about how the love is gone.

Track 2: And that's why it seems weird when it's like, she's like, oh,

Track 2: you love me once and walks away.

Track 2: And then Gonzo's like crying. It's because there was like three minutes of song

Track 2: where she's like, sorry, it's over.

Track 2: like you're not who i thought you were and we can't be together and then it has the little,

Track 2: reprise at the end that yeah michael kane sings and then it doesn't mean as

Track 2: much where he says the love we found yeah that doesn't mean anything out of

Track 2: context and most people don't see that song the.

Track 1: When the love is gone is.

Track 2: That's what you're talking about yeah yeah i watched.

Track 1: I watched the one that had that.

Track 2: Okay good i.

Track 3: Didn't see sorry i'm.

Track 2: Worried,

Track 2: That's what I grew up with on the giant VHS tape clamshell box thing.

Track 2: Marley Marley's, it's a straight banger. It is a really good song.

Track 3: It's so good.

Track 1: Yeah. So it's really hard to beat that one. I wasn't giving anyone a hard time

Track 1: for that first. Someone had to pick something else just for.

Track 3: No, if you don't like that one, you suck.

Track 1: Three listeners just turned off the podcast.

Track 2: I mean, the beginning song where they just like hurl insults at Scrooge right

Track 2: in his face is like pretty good.

Track 3: It's pretty good. How do we forget about that? It's so good.

Track 2: Yeah, that's my favorite.

Track 3: If you don't like those two songs from this movie, then fuck you. Other than that.

Track 2: Yeah, that's my favorite one. I'm sorry. That's my favorite song.

Track 3: It's so good.

Track 2: Even the vegetables. It is just a straight diss track. Yeah.

Track 2: Every single bit of it is just.

Track 1: They can redo it with Kendrick Lamar.

Track 2: Yeah. it's just it's just too solid it's such a good opening too like.

Track 3: It just rips into.

Track 2: Him it's.

Track 3: Just such a good opening.

Track 2: And it includes it includes the classic line no cheeses for us mises yes yes

Track 2: that is true that's become a real thing lately yeah such.

Track 3: A good line.

Track 2: Nostalgic millennials yeah that is that I can't.

Track 1: Believe we forgot that uh.

Track 2: Now who is everybody's least favorite Muppet though least favorite Muppet or

Track 2: character in this movie Muppet in this movie or Muppet in general Tiny Tim is the worst I don't know.

Track 1: I mean, I like Fozzie Bear normally. I don't feel like he gets enough to do, maybe.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: It's like a little speech thing where he's like, I'm going to give a big speech,

Track 1: and then he says like two things, and I don't know.

Track 3: Yeah, I was pretty disappointed by that. I was like, Fozzie!

Track 2: My least favorite is Miss Piggy. I hate Miss Piggy, and I've always hated Miss Piggy.

Track 3: Yeah, I'm not too big on Miss Piggy.

Track 2: I asked that question because I wanted to talk Miss Piggy. Wow.

Track 1: She's not in it a ton. Like, she doesn't play it. I mean, I know she's the main,

Track 1: you know, one of the characters.

Track 3: Do you see Miss Piggy as the Muppet version of that lady that you hate?

Track 2: Yes. Yes, I do. Who?

Track 3: Okay, I was thinking so. I want a hot dog real bad. That one.

Track 2: That impression did it. Thank you.

Track 3: I did it for Coolidge. Yeah, there you go.

Track 2: I got it. I actually remembered her name.

Track 2: I actually remembered her name and I was... I was like, let's see if Ward would

Track 2: do the impression. I got it.

Track 3: I couldn't think of the name, but the line came to me really quickly.

Track 2: Yeah, she's the Muppet version of Miss Cooch.

Track 3: I had a feeling you saw them two as categorically the same. 100%.

Track 2: That's a little mean to Miss Piggy.

Track 2: Wow. But this movie does answer the question we all had, which is what happens

Track 2: when a pig and a frog have children, and that is the boys are frogs and the girls are pigs.

Track 2: Hoo-hoo!

Track 1: I think my kids were like, oh, there's two pigs and two frogs. I'm like, yep.

Track 2: That's how it works.

Track 1: That works.

Track 2: Genetics are funny, kids.

Track 3: Yeah, remember those putt-nit squares you did in school? Throw that out the window.

Track 2: Yeah, it's like the pig or the frog.

Track 1: Which is the dominant gene, the pig or the frog, I guess. I guess we'll never know.

Track 2: The dominant felt. Yeah. I want to know what happens when a Muppet and a human has a baby.

Track 2: That's just weird. You made it weird.

Track 3: Yeah, you made it weird. Like, I thought I made it weird with the whole Charles

Track 3: Dickens having a hand inside of him thing.

Track 1: I'm not cutting that part out.

Track 3: You made it weird. I wasn't expecting you to.

Track 2: No, you know what would happen? It's like, you know how the ghost of Christmas

Track 2: present is like kind of a puppet, but he's also a person kind of walking around.

Track 2: Yeah. I think that is a... That's a human-muppet hybrid. Except when he's not huge.

Track 3: Oh, yeah.

Track 2: Except when he's not huge. He could be the size of a mouse. Is that just a guy

Track 2: in a costume? I assume so. It has to be.

Track 1: It says hand-suit performer in the...

Track 2: Did you think somebody was under that thing?

Track 3: You think somebody had a really big hand?

Track 2: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

Track 3: They found a guy with an exceptionally big hand for that muppet. Okay.

Track 2: Oh, my God.

Track 2: My God, the image of that. Oh, my God.

Track 2: No, him and I assume that Grim Reaper is a person in there, which who is supposed

Track 2: to be the scariest ghost.

Track 3: Same big hand guy.

Track 2: Big hand guy. You thought.

Track 3: You thought. Nope. Big hand guy got it.

Track 1: He's not getting a lot of work these days.

Track 3: Evan was big hand guy's name. Actually, nope. Don't pull it up.

Track 3: Bill doesn't want to know.

Track 1: Yeah, I don't know who plays the Grim Reaper or he has.

Track 2: I don't know. It's Big Hand Guy.

Track 3: Big Hand Guy.

Track 1: Is that the one, the yet to come? Yeah, yeah.

Track 2: Yes, yes. And then the past one is creepy computer child.

Track 2: Is that all computer child? I don't know, but it looks like it is,

Track 2: I feel like. I don't think it is. You don't think so? You think it's a puppet?

Track 2: I think it's a puppet with which one?

Track 2: I think the past, the ghost of Christmas past.

Track 3: I figured it was some like- It looks scary. Double exposure.

Track 2: Yeah i think it's double exposure yeah oh i'm sorry yeah i didn't mean to yeah

Track 2: it's some weird oh yeah double exposure stuff some weird uh practical effects

Track 2: okay well she's still scary definitely scary oh super creepy.

Track 1: They do i mean just in general the like the way they can make these movies look

Track 1: you know like you don't really like you have michael kane just like walking

Track 1: around normally and then you just kind of have the muppets existing sort of

Track 1: just normally and you just, it's...

Track 2: You totally buy it.

Track 1: Because, you know, the Muppets just lived in, you know, 1850s London.

Track 3: I liked how in Marley, the song, sorry, back to the banger Marley and Marley,

Track 3: when like they have Muppet chains on the Muppets, but then when they throw chains

Track 3: onto Scrooge, they're real chains on him instead of like Muppet chains.

Track 3: I like that little detail.

Track 2: I don't think I ever thought about that. Yeah. I guess the chains reflect who you are. Yeah.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 2: Beautiful.

Track 1: I can just constantly hear them doing the like, ooh, sound every time. So good.

Track 2: Well, they are personalized chains because they have like money boxes.

Track 2: And like in the book, it says the chains have like deeds on them and stuff.

Track 2: So actually, if they had deeds, I guess they were something to do with property.

Track 2: But yeah, Marley's chains had like deeds and stuff. Banks have the old property.

Track 3: That, and they're also saying, like, in the song, like, how they're like,

Track 3: oh, we forged all these chains with our evil acts and all this stuff.

Track 3: My own personal hell that they created for themselves.

Track 1: Or himself. Just one, remember? One Marley.

Track 2: No, it's two.

Track 3: It's Marley and Marley.

Track 2: The real version is two. We all know it.

Track 3: Yeah, this is the real version. Marley and Marley and big hand guy.

Track 2: Like...

Track 2: Big ham, God.

Track 3: We got it. We know the canon. We know the lore.

Track 1: I pulled up the lyrics to that song. And in the lyrics, they put Statler and

Track 1: Waldorf. So they're both speaking.

Track 1: But they screwed them. They screwed Waldorf in the actual credits.

Track 2: I don't even understand that. There's two Marleys. Why aren't they not crediting him? That's true.

Track 1: This is in Wikipedia. I wonder if it's different in IMDb.

Track 3: IMDb is just like Marley 2.

Track 2: They made up a name for him. He's Robert Marley, which now that I think of it,

Track 2: I don't know if that's a joke or not.

Track 2: Like Bob Marley. I don't know. Just a coincidence.

Track 3: I mean, he wasn't singing about like, don't worry, have a good time.

Track 2: He was not at all.

Track 3: Anything like that. No.

Track 1: Don't worry.

Track 3: Thank you.

Track 2: I think here on like the page, you know, it says Michael Caine to go back to

Track 2: like Michael Caine, like playing it straight, that he took inspiration for the

Track 2: role from Wall Street cheats and embezzlers.

Track 2: I thought they represented a very good picture of meanness and greed.

Track 2: It's like, yeah, man, that is, that's the deal.

Track 2: Yeah. Yeah. Nailed it. Yeah.

Track 1: Wait, so in the.

Track 3: You're starting to get it.

Track 1: In the IMDB credits, it lists Jacob Marley and Robert Marley.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 3: As it should.

Track 2: Yeah, he's got a name. As it should.

Track 1: So Wikipedia is not the good source of truth. I should have used Grokopedia instead. Grokopedia.

Track 3: Dude, you should have looked it up on Conservopedia. Are you kidding me?

Track 1: Wait, that's not a real thing.

Track 3: Now I got... Oh, yeah. Conservopedia is absolutely a thing. And now I got to

Track 3: look up fucking Christmas Carol on Conservopedia.

Track 1: I didn't know that was a thing. I don't...

Track 2: I did not know anything.

Track 3: You've never... Oh, my God. It's so terribly fantastic.

Track 2: Now, I want to talk about... I want you to talk about how...

Track 3: Fantastically terrible, one of the two.

Track 2: Your note on why Kermit works for Struge and if that makes him a bad person.

Track 1: So, I didn't finish writing what I was going to say there. It's like, I don't...

Track 3: Oh, there's a Christmas Carol article on Conservative Media?

Track 1: Wait, so you're asking me why do I say he is a bad person for working for him?

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: Well, no, I don't think he is because the way I would see it is he needs a job,

Track 1: you know, in a, especially in this time in 1850.

Track 1: Like he was probably thankful he could get this job and not be working at a factory.

Track 1: You know, maybe he used to work in a factory. And this, this is a huge step

Track 1: up to be like, in theory, he seems to be kind of like the manager of the other

Track 1: little, like the rats who work at the shop or whatever.

Track 1: Maybe. Or something like that. So he doesn't live very well,

Track 1: but he doesn't make him a bad person. He's just doing what he's got to do.

Track 2: Kermit, I feel like Kermit is not allowed to be a bad person.

Track 2: Like, I don't think they would ever put him in a role that could be even slightly construed that way.

Track 2: Like, that's why, like, Kermit's got to be usually, like, the lead in a Muppet movie.

Track 2: But obviously, they're not going to make him Scrooge because...

Track 2: That's impossible, so he's got to be Bob Cratchit. The next biggest role.

Track 2: He wouldn't fit his ticket. No, no, no. Gonzo is.

Track 1: The only thing you can blame him for is not asking for a raise,

Track 1: although I guess he just assumed he'd never ask Scrooge because he would never give it to him.

Track 2: Yeah, he wouldn't even give them a piece of coal for the fire,

Track 2: so a raise probably felt like too far out.

Track 1: I thought it was hysterical, though, that later when Scrooge is giving all of

Track 1: the people their gifts, which also, where did he get all this stuff on Christmas

Track 1: Day when everything was closed?

Track 1: but he gives all of the rats like a back a basket of coal which in like modern

Track 1: day you think of the associate that is like that's a you got him cold for a

Track 1: gift but like they're like oh.

Track 2: Yeah i.

Track 1: Can not be cold.

Track 2: I cannot be cold yeah which is it's really kind of sad because he's just he's

Track 2: giving them a gift but it's really what they like should have had all along

Track 2: that's like that's not a gift that's like giving someone like toothpaste like

Track 2: you should just get that automatically right.

Track 1: That's true he's just yeah he's just like making up for all the things he didn't do.

Track 2: Right i think that's really what

Track 2: it what it's i feel like it doesn't even symbolize a gift so much as yeah.

Track 3: No it's just making.

Track 2: Up yes yeah didn't.

Track 3: They ask him for.

Track 2: Extra coal earlier it's less of a gift and more of a um a promise penance a

Track 2: penance yeah yeah because he gives money.

Track 1: To the charity and he gives them like enough to make up for the previous years when he.

Track 2: Didn't give the money what does conservopedia have to say about a christmas carol.

Track 3: Uh i gotta pull it back up it nothing terribly crazy.

Track 2: What could they have to say it's funny.

Track 1: Conservopedia won't open on my computer so.

Track 2: I'm just yeah a.

Track 3: Christmas carol is a charles dickens story about the transformation of a bitter

Track 3: miserly capitalist confronted by ghosts and quotations one fateful christmas

Track 3: eve the beautiful tale may be inspired by the parable of lazarus and the rich

Track 3: man in the gospel of luke And it's a very short article.

Track 2: Even they can't come up with anything. They're like, we're in a ride.

Track 2: Yeah, they can't come up with anything.

Track 3: Yeah, they've used miserably several times, so they're grasping at Shawsome.

Track 3: And there's no existing articles for any of the Muppets. No.

Track 3: Kermit and Miss Piggy don't even have pages.

Track 1: There is one on Grokopedia.

Track 3: So listening at home. Don't go to Grokopedia. You've got some free time.

Track 1: I just went to, I'd never been to Grokopedia in my life, but at the very front page, it's showing.

Track 3: The fact that you know about Grokopedia versus Conservatio.

Track 2: I didn't even know that existed.

Track 1: I only learned this very recently, but it's like, there's like little pop-ups for new edits.

Track 1: And it says, Elon Musk, new edit approved by Grok. It's like he is himself editing this page.

Track 1: Like I just, what's going on?

Track 1: They only have 1 million articles. What a joke. I'm sure they're all written by AI.

Track 3: Yeah, it's like all AI with Elon edits, which I mean, I guess it's a little bit more clear.

Track 3: You can go to Grokipedia and like article about China and be like,

Track 3: oh, it's Elon that hates China.

Track 3: Not fucking, not citation needed that hates China.

Track 1: No one made leftopedia or something? or I guess it's just marxist.org.

Track 2: Does anybody have any other final thoughts?

Track 2: Jackie, do you have any final thoughts on Love a Christmas Carol and what it

Track 2: can tell us about our current system of oppression and exploitatively?

Track 2: I think it's like we were saying. I think it's I think people need to pay a

Track 2: little more attention to the how you treat each other versus how you see Christmas.

Track 2: As much as I love Christmas, love a Christmas movie. I don't think that's the point. I would agree.

Track 1: I don't have any, my only final thoughts is that this should be at everyone's

Track 1: Christmastime, you know, movie rotation. Yeah.

Track 2: Yeah. I think people, you know, it is a kid's movie, obviously,

Track 2: and people think of it, but I feel like it's not just a kid's movie.

Track 2: Maybe it's because I watch it as a kid, so it's nostalgic, but I feel like it

Track 2: like holds your interest as an adult. Please.

Track 2: How is this a children's movie as opposed to just a movie?

Track 2: I'm not saying that's what I think.

Track 3: I would say this is more of a children's movie than something like Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

Track 3: Like some people insist is a children's movie.

Track 1: Hey, I had that VHS as a child.

Track 3: Yeah, I did too. That didn't make me get this kid appropriate.

Track 2: Wow.

Track 2: I just, like, I don't think it's a children's movie so much as just,

Track 2: I think it's, like. I mean, this movie does have sexy chickens in it, so.

Track 2: I feel like it's just a movie that anyone can watch. I don't feel like it's aimed at children.

Track 2: Like, I can't think of a movie aimed at children now.

Track 3: No, I like the idea that this is, like, possibly the second sexiest children's movie behind.

Track 2: Yeah, yeah, obviously that's a good one. Yeah, like, I feel like,

Track 2: yeah, like, Trolls, sure, I've never seen a Trolls movie. Me neither. I just...

Track 2: I said Trolls 2. Trolls 2, sure. Like, Trolls 2, that's a kid's movie.

Track 2: Whereas, like, this... Any Muppet movie, the Muppets are for everybody.

Track 2: Yeah. The Muppets have no age, you know.

Track 2: Well, it's like how Pixar stuff, like, used to be, which is,

Track 2: like, it could be enjoyed by anyone, but, like, it was okay for kids,

Track 2: but adults would also enjoy it. I feel like that's the same kind of thing.

Track 1: Yeah. I get the sense like when they made it, it wasn't necessarily making it

Track 1: to be targeted towards kids.

Track 1: I actually saw someone post online like, oh, I tried to get my kids to watch

Track 1: Muppets Christmas Carol.

Track 1: And they were like into it until I got really excited. And then they stopped wanting to watch it.

Track 2: Because this seems like a you problem.

Track 1: Yeah.

Track 3: Have you ever thought that maybe you're really fucking uncool and your kids

Track 3: recognize that? and then they go, oh, you like this? I should probably stop.

Track 2: I mean, the Muppets are like, in like Jim Henson world, the Muppets are like the adult stuff.

Track 2: Like Sesame Street is for kids and Muppets are like adults.

Track 1: Yeah, I mean, Dark Crystal is not a kids movie.

Track 2: No, it is not. Despite the fact that I watched The Desert Child many times.

Track 1: I did as well. Yes, not a kids movie, really, at all.

Track 2: Yeah, definitely a different time. which reminds me of another Muppets movie,

Track 2: Labyrinth, in which I saw someone recently post about how,

Track 2: The Labyrinth is a movie that glorifies pedophilia, and it's like,

Track 2: you seem to have missed the point that he's the bad guy.

Track 2: He's the bad guy. You might have a problem here.

Track 3: It's the same type of people that are like, Starship Troopers didn't do a good

Track 3: job of depicting fascism because the bugs are gross.

Track 2: Like, what?

Track 3: Buddy. Buddy. There's so much other stuff in there. Did you watch this?

Track 1: Oh boy i might need to re-watch dark crystal but maybe not with my.

Track 2: No no bill watched it as a kid and look how he turned out everything's fine

Track 2: like you got to do it when you're young we've talked about this we all yeah.

Track 3: Dark crystal if you think who framed roger.

Track 2: Rabbit's a kid they can.

Track 3: Watch dark crystal.

Track 1: It's tame by comparison is what you're saying.

Track 2: Uh you know maybe in regards there's there's less sex dark crystal is way darker

Track 2: um i think most you know most of the,

Track 2: the bad parts of dark crystal are going to be the same as like the most traumatic

Track 2: parts of such as melting a screaming cartoon shoe in dip but you're not going to get the uh you know,

Track 2: sexist baby slapping the ass of his nanny or jessica rabbit um you know you're

Track 2: not gonna get that you're just you're gonna get a big loss you're gonna i.

Track 3: Like how you just leave it at jessica rabbit just jessica rabbit being.

Track 2: Just yeah it's good enough yeah you're just gonna get all of the horror part

Track 2: of it in dark crystal you know podlings at least dark crystal will prep you.

Track 3: Because at least dark is in the name. Yeah.

Track 2: You know what you're getting into. Just walk into it.

Track 3: Sex. A lot of sex is not in the name of Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

Track 2: This is the greatest interpretation of A Christmas Carol ever put to film, hands down.

Track 2: That's just true, though. I don't think that's an exaggeration.

Track 2: I think that's true. Some people disagree, and they're wrong. What else is there?

Track 1: There's a Will Ferrell one from a few years ago that I heard was terrible.

Track 2: Really? I don't remember that at all. Jim Carrey one.

Track 3: That sounds bad. That sounds bad.

Track 1: It's a musical where he plays Scrooge. It's like, that just doesn't sound interesting.

Track 2: No, it does not. There's the Jim Carrey one, and then there is Scrooged with Bill Murray. Oh, yeah.

Track 3: I was about to say, I feel like the only other one that could possibly be up

Track 3: there is Scrooged, but I haven't seen it in so long.

Track 1: What is the Will Ferrell one?

Track 2: We have a friend that claims that Scrooged is better.

Track 1: The one with Will Ferrell is called Spirited with Ryan Reynolds.

Track 2: I don't remember that existing.

Track 3: That doesn't sound great.

Track 2: That doesn't sound great. You know nothing about it other than the thing that

Track 2: Ryan Reynolds is. Who is Ryan Reynolds?

Track 1: It was an Apple TV movie.

Track 2: Who is he in that movie? Jackie, I love you. Who is Ryan Reynolds in that movie?

Track 1: Oh, never mind.

Track 2: I know who Ryan Reynolds is. I just wanted to know who the end of the movie.

Track 2: No, I know who Murphy Brown is, but I do not know who Ryan Reynolds was. I was like, oh.

Track 3: That's awesome. I love Jackie so much. She's so cool. Doesn't know who Ryan

Track 3: Reynolds is. I just want to know who he was. Oh, I'm so jealous.

Track 1: They made up a character named Clint Briggs. I don't know who that was.

Track 2: Of course. This is why I asked. What? This is why I asked, because Ryan Reynolds

Track 2: cannot play anyone but Ryan Reynolds.

Track 2: So I was like, who could he possibly be playing in that movie?

Track 2: And the answer is a character who is just Ryan Reynolds.

Track 2: Who the fuck? what the fuck,

Track 2: is that that's ridiculous the.

Track 1: Plot reading the plot of this sounds so horrendous it just looks I can't even

Track 1: hate watch this it sounds too bad.

Track 2: Because I don't think I can watch it if there's no cheeses I doubt there's nieces

Track 2: and cheeses not even worth it.

Track 1: There's no one else really oh Octavia Spencer is also in it god like what are you doing being.

Track 2: A hero really like she's a good actor but she will also be in fucking anything

Track 2: I kind of love that yeah I mean honestly Michael Caine Michael Caine was in,

Track 2: like, everything. Yeah, Michael Caine is the same way.

Track 2: Michael Caine is an incredible actor. He will also be in anything.

Track 1: Well, he could have stopped his career after this, and no one would have hated him for it.

Track 2: Absolutely. Fact. This is the peak. This is peak Michael Caine.

Track 3: Oh, absolutely.

Track 1: Awesome. Well, you've been— Jackie, thank you for joining us today.

Track 2: Thank you for letting me come talk about Muppets.

Track 1: Of course.

Track 3: This is good to have you.

Track 2: And historical context, my favorite thing.

Track 1: And you've been listening to Left of the Jector with Evan, Ward,

Track 1: and Bill. We'll catch you next time.