1 00:00:00,104 --> 00:00:01,274 Hello, everyone. 2 00:00:01,284 --> 00:00:04,914 Welcome to this week's episode of Scaling Expertise. 3 00:00:05,430 --> 00:00:10,454 we talk to experts about how they have scaled their expertise and how they 4 00:00:10,454 --> 00:00:12,634 can help you scale your expertise. 5 00:00:13,077 --> 00:00:18,536 This week, I'm very excited to welcome my guest, Melody Hirshhorn, who is 6 00:00:18,566 --> 00:00:21,886 the founder of Big Impact Books. 7 00:00:22,198 --> 00:00:23,928 Thank you for joining me today, Melody. 8 00:00:24,038 --> 00:00:24,818 Thank you, Erin. 9 00:00:24,818 --> 00:00:26,158 I'm so excited to be here. 10 00:00:26,546 --> 00:00:28,186 We're going to have a great conversation. 11 00:00:28,186 --> 00:00:31,236 Before we get started, would you introduce yourself to the audience? 12 00:00:31,656 --> 00:00:33,756 Tell them who you are and who you serve. 13 00:00:34,069 --> 00:00:34,879 Absolutely. 14 00:00:35,082 --> 00:00:41,782 I am Melanie Hirshhorn and my mission is to help attorneys and other professionals 15 00:00:41,996 --> 00:00:47,606 share their stories with the world to grow their reputation and make more money. 16 00:00:48,086 --> 00:00:52,006 I do that by helping them write, publish, and promote. 17 00:00:52,381 --> 00:00:53,771 Reputation building books. 18 00:00:54,174 --> 00:00:54,724 So full stop. 19 00:00:54,824 --> 00:00:59,094 So when you say help them, right, meaning you help organize them and 20 00:00:59,351 --> 00:01:02,544 get the stuff in and out of their brains and out of their brain. 21 00:01:02,574 --> 00:01:03,204 Yeah. 22 00:01:03,284 --> 00:01:06,094 Sometimes people don't like typing to do. 23 00:01:06,684 --> 00:01:12,139 So what I do is I meet with them weekly and I ask them the 24 00:01:12,149 --> 00:01:13,869 questions to get the chapters. 25 00:01:14,074 --> 00:01:20,967 We get it transcribed and then we plop it into the right places so the 26 00:01:20,967 --> 00:01:23,087 book starts to emerge. 27 00:01:23,296 --> 00:01:28,166 It's hard for me to imagine that there's a lawyer anymore who can't type. 28 00:01:28,615 --> 00:01:32,978 Now back in, you know, when I started, practice, the partner didn't even 29 00:01:32,978 --> 00:01:38,058 have, Any kind of implement which they could do anything other than me, no 30 00:01:38,058 --> 00:01:42,032 computers, nothing on their desks and then there were a few who, did the 31 00:01:42,032 --> 00:01:46,931 point and peck, but my goodness, I can't imagine, you words are our currency. 32 00:01:46,931 --> 00:01:49,681 I can't imagine being, uncomfortable with that. 33 00:01:49,691 --> 00:01:52,101 But I guess it's a different thing when you're kind of in. 34 00:01:52,101 --> 00:01:54,573 Transcribed Planning your trade versus telling your story. 35 00:01:54,863 --> 00:01:55,473 Absolutely. 36 00:01:55,483 --> 00:01:59,649 Although, you know, a lot of the books that we do are about the 37 00:01:59,699 --> 00:02:04,453 attorney's successes and their client wins and cautionary tales. 38 00:02:04,453 --> 00:02:08,083 So it's not like they don't say this stuff and talk about it all the time 39 00:02:08,083 --> 00:02:09,353 and write about it all the time. 40 00:02:09,656 --> 00:02:12,536 But I think that people come into the idea of a book as though 41 00:02:12,536 --> 00:02:17,726 it's this giant elephant and they cannot foresee a way around it. 42 00:02:18,656 --> 00:02:20,686 So I'm there to make it. 43 00:02:21,011 --> 00:02:25,021 Simpler and easier and doable in bite sized pieces. 44 00:02:25,426 --> 00:02:25,866 Right. 45 00:02:25,976 --> 00:02:26,286 Yeah. 46 00:02:26,336 --> 00:02:27,496 one step at a time, right? 47 00:02:27,716 --> 00:02:28,426 Exactly. 48 00:02:28,436 --> 00:02:29,466 One bite at a time. 49 00:02:29,546 --> 00:02:30,376 One bite at a time. 50 00:02:30,986 --> 00:02:31,866 He wants to eat an elephant. 51 00:02:31,866 --> 00:02:32,436 Is that the thing? 52 00:02:32,556 --> 00:02:32,646 Yeah. 53 00:02:32,876 --> 00:02:33,386 That's it. 54 00:02:33,386 --> 00:02:33,736 Yeah. 55 00:02:33,736 --> 00:02:36,026 I don't think I'd want to eat an elephant, but yes. 56 00:02:36,166 --> 00:02:36,426 Wow. 57 00:02:37,956 --> 00:02:39,533 So tell me, where did you start? 58 00:02:39,533 --> 00:02:40,933 How'd you get to where you are today? 59 00:02:41,308 --> 00:02:43,373 Totally non linear. 60 00:02:43,558 --> 00:02:46,148 It's not like I went to law school and then became a lawyer. 61 00:02:46,178 --> 00:02:47,768 You know, that would just be super easy. 62 00:02:47,941 --> 00:02:49,291 I am not an attorney. 63 00:02:49,371 --> 00:02:52,441 I started out in celebrity PR in Hollywood. 64 00:02:52,608 --> 00:02:56,528 then I got a master's in journalism, moved to Pennsylvania, worked on 65 00:02:56,528 --> 00:02:58,838 radio as a news anchor and reporter. 66 00:02:59,131 --> 00:03:00,721 Then I got laid off when I was pregnant. 67 00:03:01,183 --> 00:03:05,403 Oh, I'm like, I'm 68 00:03:05,403 --> 00:03:06,873 sure there's a story there, but 69 00:03:07,403 --> 00:03:11,680 so, I freelanced at a newspaper for another year and then my 70 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:12,870 husband got a job in Phoenix. 71 00:03:12,870 --> 00:03:14,910 And so we moved here about 13 years ago. 72 00:03:15,095 --> 00:03:19,415 And when I got here, I thought, well, I could pay a babysitter 73 00:03:19,415 --> 00:03:20,735 more money than I'll ever make. 74 00:03:20,945 --> 00:03:23,382 As a journalist, or I could do something else. 75 00:03:23,658 --> 00:03:28,311 And I had this idea to design and manufacture breastfeeding clothing. 76 00:03:29,702 --> 00:03:31,322 That's a departure. 77 00:03:31,362 --> 00:03:32,362 That's interesting. 78 00:03:32,432 --> 00:03:34,092 It was, it was a bit of a left turn. 79 00:03:34,382 --> 00:03:34,982 Yeah. 80 00:03:35,242 --> 00:03:37,615 But I was going through that at that time. 81 00:03:37,615 --> 00:03:41,439 I felt so uncomfortable in my own body and I, love fashion and 82 00:03:41,439 --> 00:03:42,693 I really just wanted to make. 83 00:03:42,974 --> 00:03:45,314 Myself and other women feel good. 84 00:03:45,550 --> 00:03:49,627 And so I did that for about eight years and I sold the clothes on Nordstrom. 85 00:03:49,837 --> 00:03:53,899 com and on Amazon and in boutiques across the country. 86 00:03:54,256 --> 00:03:57,606 And then in the seventh year of business, I made a bad hire. 87 00:03:57,866 --> 00:04:02,866 And this woman who I hired to help me with marketing helped me really 88 00:04:02,866 --> 00:04:04,326 run the business into the ground. 89 00:04:04,336 --> 00:04:07,266 she belittled me every single day would say. 90 00:04:07,661 --> 00:04:09,131 How do you have a master's degree? 91 00:04:09,131 --> 00:04:10,971 You're so boring when you write. 92 00:04:11,314 --> 00:04:12,234 And things like that. 93 00:04:12,484 --> 00:04:13,254 Wow. 94 00:04:13,534 --> 00:04:16,254 So, I sustained that for too long. 95 00:04:16,551 --> 00:04:20,561 And then I closed the business and thought, Alright, I need to start again. 96 00:04:20,621 --> 00:04:21,801 What can I do? 97 00:04:22,243 --> 00:04:25,568 And, you people were calling and saying, Hey, can you help 98 00:04:25,568 --> 00:04:27,408 me with this business idea? 99 00:04:27,418 --> 00:04:28,961 I know you've been a business owner. 100 00:04:29,178 --> 00:04:33,298 And then authors started calling and said, Hey, can you help me with my marketing? 101 00:04:33,605 --> 00:04:34,865 And I was like, Oh. 102 00:04:35,075 --> 00:04:37,235 Okay, universe, I see what you're doing here. 103 00:04:37,472 --> 00:04:43,092 By the third author, I went, okay, this is And what I found was after helping 104 00:04:43,092 --> 00:04:47,408 authors market their books for quite a while, that people are coming to me with 105 00:04:47,448 --> 00:04:50,538 books that could have been so much better. 106 00:04:50,956 --> 00:04:54,776 And that there's so much predatory behavior in the publishing industry. 107 00:04:55,209 --> 00:04:58,719 hear this, I hear this all the time, Oh, my, publisher told me X, Y, 108 00:04:58,719 --> 00:05:02,829 and Z, I paid them all this money and then I got very little for it. 109 00:05:03,186 --> 00:05:05,343 And so being the. 110 00:05:05,552 --> 00:05:06,792 entrepreneur that I am. 111 00:05:06,792 --> 00:05:08,162 I thought, what? 112 00:05:08,182 --> 00:05:10,312 I could do this so much better. 113 00:05:10,566 --> 00:05:13,746 as a marketer, I thought, well, I have to niche down because 114 00:05:14,326 --> 00:05:15,656 you can't help everybody. 115 00:05:15,776 --> 00:05:17,926 Then you end up helping nobody when you're trying to talk 116 00:05:17,926 --> 00:05:19,216 to everybody, talk to nobody. 117 00:05:19,402 --> 00:05:24,182 And I have always found attorneys to be just like you brilliant. 118 00:05:24,601 --> 00:05:31,201 And my favorite thing to do when I talk to attorneys is learn about your story 119 00:05:31,737 --> 00:05:37,757 and learn from you because there's always so many nuggets of wisdom that I get. 120 00:05:38,242 --> 00:05:41,939 And I thought, well, there are also things that I don't know about. 121 00:05:42,206 --> 00:05:47,796 The law and I can't trust law and order and suits and the Young 122 00:05:47,796 --> 00:05:51,036 and the Restless, which I've been watching for 33, 34 years now. 123 00:05:51,076 --> 00:05:51,116 That's 124 00:05:51,116 --> 00:05:51,616 still on? 125 00:05:51,806 --> 00:05:52,076 And what? 126 00:05:52,646 --> 00:05:53,026 Oh yeah. 127 00:05:53,456 --> 00:05:54,346 Every day, baby. 128 00:05:55,694 --> 00:05:57,374 That isn't always how things happen in the law. 129 00:05:57,734 --> 00:06:01,004 In fact, it's probably the opposite of how things actually happen. 130 00:06:01,034 --> 00:06:02,444 And I thought, well, there's this gap. 131 00:06:02,917 --> 00:06:05,417 There's a gap between the knowledge that attorneys hold. 132 00:06:05,849 --> 00:06:10,549 And what we lay people know as reality, and I can help bridge that gap and 133 00:06:10,559 --> 00:06:14,422 help attorneys make more money in the process by stepping into their authority. 134 00:06:14,789 --> 00:06:18,769 that's interesting way that you got there, but I'm certainly glad that you got there. 135 00:06:19,572 --> 00:06:23,636 So, as you know, this is the scaling expertise podcast so 136 00:06:23,636 --> 00:06:24,886 we're going to talk about. 137 00:06:25,141 --> 00:06:26,914 Scale and scaling. 138 00:06:26,914 --> 00:06:30,764 So I want to start off with a question about, you know, how do you define 139 00:06:30,824 --> 00:06:34,327 scale both in your business and when you're working with your clients? 140 00:06:34,734 --> 00:06:35,164 Okay. 141 00:06:35,274 --> 00:06:40,244 the thing that comes to mind first is that as a solo practitioner, 142 00:06:40,551 --> 00:06:43,251 you expect you have to do it all. 143 00:06:43,654 --> 00:06:47,284 if you are the janitor and the president and everything in between, 144 00:06:47,824 --> 00:06:50,141 you get sick, your business stops. 145 00:06:50,871 --> 00:06:52,721 You want more time in the day? 146 00:06:53,081 --> 00:06:54,486 You can't invent it. 147 00:06:54,784 --> 00:07:01,279 So in order to scale, you need to create team and create systems that 148 00:07:01,339 --> 00:07:06,312 other people can follow and realize that you're great, but you're not 149 00:07:06,312 --> 00:07:07,482 the only one who can do what you do. 150 00:07:07,916 --> 00:07:08,706 you're really not. 151 00:07:08,806 --> 00:07:10,616 And if you have this special sauce. 152 00:07:11,004 --> 00:07:13,264 Put it in a system and make it repeatable. 153 00:07:13,591 --> 00:07:17,972 I may have not answered the question fully, but scale is getting bigger 154 00:07:18,002 --> 00:07:23,718 and reaching your peak of success, however you define that, and doing it. 155 00:07:24,043 --> 00:07:24,923 with help. 156 00:07:26,063 --> 00:07:26,423 Yeah. 157 00:07:26,740 --> 00:07:33,143 So many people forget that other people can be tools you to use 158 00:07:33,143 --> 00:07:34,903 the word as a way to scale. 159 00:07:34,953 --> 00:07:37,003 You know, it's not just technology. 160 00:07:37,083 --> 00:07:41,320 It's not just, Intellectual property, which we'll talk about, but it can be 161 00:07:41,623 --> 00:07:46,773 other people like we are as the founders, the most expensive resource in our 162 00:07:46,773 --> 00:07:52,833 business, So anytime we can find someone else who can do it better, faster, because 163 00:07:52,833 --> 00:07:58,690 a lot of things that my assistant can do that I cannot do or take me all day to do. 164 00:07:58,740 --> 00:08:00,647 I was going to say, you could 165 00:08:00,683 --> 00:08:03,920 do it, you could, but is it worth that? 166 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:05,320 Probably not. 167 00:08:05,690 --> 00:08:06,190 Right. 168 00:08:06,533 --> 00:08:08,730 people are the place to start. 169 00:08:08,750 --> 00:08:09,320 Yes. 170 00:08:09,353 --> 00:08:10,023 with scale. 171 00:08:10,317 --> 00:08:11,987 So with lawyers. 172 00:08:12,457 --> 00:08:19,320 we have this thing called billable hours that, we still cling to 173 00:08:19,753 --> 00:08:24,667 after I think every other industry on the planet has left it behind. 174 00:08:25,073 --> 00:08:25,893 maybe not therapists. 175 00:08:26,158 --> 00:08:26,918 I think therapists 176 00:08:26,918 --> 00:08:28,128 still build by the hour. 177 00:08:28,128 --> 00:08:28,408 So 178 00:08:28,548 --> 00:08:33,212 yeah, I guess, HTPs, I think do in some ways to, that, when they come to 179 00:08:33,212 --> 00:08:37,388 you, what is it that they're feeling in their businesses where are they in 180 00:08:37,388 --> 00:08:40,178 their business and what are the pains are they feeling when I come to you? 181 00:08:40,522 --> 00:08:46,367 I think that it's not as much a pain that they're feeling, but it's inner desire. 182 00:08:46,637 --> 00:08:48,157 Somebody told me I should write a book. 183 00:08:48,607 --> 00:08:50,157 I've always wanted to write a book. 184 00:08:50,557 --> 00:08:56,053 I know I should write a book, but I don't know how, and I don't know how. 185 00:08:56,933 --> 00:09:01,018 I don't know who, I don't know when, I don't know how, and 186 00:09:01,338 --> 00:09:02,458 I don't know if I can do it. 187 00:09:03,418 --> 00:09:04,348 But I know I want it. 188 00:09:04,540 --> 00:09:08,040 And I firmly believe that if you want it, you can do it. 189 00:09:08,330 --> 00:09:11,170 I would never suggest to somebody, you should write a book and I'm 190 00:09:11,170 --> 00:09:12,110 going to force you to do it. 191 00:09:12,273 --> 00:09:13,520 Because that's quite a commitment. 192 00:09:13,790 --> 00:09:14,200 Yes. 193 00:09:14,363 --> 00:09:17,063 But getting back to the notion of billable hours. 194 00:09:17,063 --> 00:09:21,237 Yeah, you don't have five hours a day to sit and, type out that book. 195 00:09:21,387 --> 00:09:24,397 Which is why I help people do it in two hours a week. 196 00:09:25,417 --> 00:09:27,597 Because you can find two hours a week. 197 00:09:27,690 --> 00:09:32,277 I was listening to Brendan Burchard's podcast the other week and he's 198 00:09:32,277 --> 00:09:36,987 talking about the statistics of people watch four hours of TV a night. 199 00:09:37,313 --> 00:09:39,573 They're scrolling the internet two hours a day. 200 00:09:40,203 --> 00:09:45,853 I mean, you could find two hours in a whole week to do this. 201 00:09:46,633 --> 00:09:49,353 And that accountability piece is very important too. 202 00:09:49,623 --> 00:09:51,413 I keep my clients accountable. 203 00:09:51,575 --> 00:09:53,653 They know, they see my name on their calendar and they're like, 204 00:09:53,653 --> 00:09:55,143 Oh, I got to get that done. 205 00:09:56,043 --> 00:09:56,393 Oh, yes. 206 00:09:56,453 --> 00:09:59,263 Melanie's going to be watching me and making sure that it's complete. 207 00:09:59,452 --> 00:10:03,257 And so it doesn't interfere with the billable hours, but what it 208 00:10:03,257 --> 00:10:08,490 can do is, back to scaling, enhance that because instead of taking 209 00:10:08,490 --> 00:10:12,723 time to do a consultation, for example, you send out your book. 210 00:10:13,103 --> 00:10:15,588 Somebody already knows you and they know they want to hire you. 211 00:10:16,688 --> 00:10:20,962 And they come in without needing to ask you 17 questions because all the 212 00:10:20,962 --> 00:10:22,862 questions were answered in the book. 213 00:10:23,138 --> 00:10:24,698 So that's a time saver right there. 214 00:10:24,898 --> 00:10:29,598 I had a call last week, a woman said to me, A friend of mine sent me your book. 215 00:10:29,852 --> 00:10:30,882 So I'd like to hire you. 216 00:10:31,242 --> 00:10:31,882 Nice. 217 00:10:32,108 --> 00:10:36,368 mean, I didn't have to actually do anything at that moment. 218 00:10:36,568 --> 00:10:37,008 Sure. 219 00:10:37,008 --> 00:10:39,328 I spent, three years writing a book. 220 00:10:39,338 --> 00:10:42,158 It shouldn't have taken me that long, but you didn't have you, 221 00:10:42,338 --> 00:10:44,372 but I didn't have me exactly. 222 00:10:44,672 --> 00:10:48,802 I spent, you know, years doing it and all the learning and all that stuff, but. 223 00:10:49,102 --> 00:10:54,192 I mean, that one client paid back so much of what, like reimburse 224 00:10:54,192 --> 00:10:55,592 the cost of the book almost. 225 00:10:56,102 --> 00:10:58,382 So that's how you scale with a book. 226 00:10:58,392 --> 00:10:59,582 That's how a book really helps. 227 00:11:00,022 --> 00:11:03,082 It does some of the heavy lifting for you while you're asleep. 228 00:11:03,365 --> 00:11:06,868 Well, with lawyers, I mean, what most of my clients are coaches 229 00:11:06,868 --> 00:11:10,648 and consultants, but one of my favorite clients is a lawyer. 230 00:11:10,875 --> 00:11:13,935 And what makes her different from other lawyers is that 231 00:11:13,935 --> 00:11:15,885 she is extremely specialized. 232 00:11:15,885 --> 00:11:18,615 She has a very niche area of expertise. 233 00:11:18,905 --> 00:11:22,893 You know, she's not Litigator, commercial transactions, or what, 234 00:11:22,903 --> 00:11:26,470 you know, she has this very, very specialized area of expertise. 235 00:11:26,690 --> 00:11:29,873 When you're working with lawyers, how do you help them if they're just 236 00:11:29,873 --> 00:11:31,393 like, I'm just a commercial litigator. 237 00:11:31,393 --> 00:11:33,363 I'm just like, what do you do with that? 238 00:11:33,560 --> 00:11:35,040 Well, I think it depends on the person. 239 00:11:35,995 --> 00:11:42,962 So I'm working with a criminal defense attorney right now, which is a big topic. 240 00:11:43,022 --> 00:11:43,312 Yeah. 241 00:11:43,362 --> 00:11:47,492 But what we're talking about is how to build a functioning 242 00:11:47,532 --> 00:11:49,202 and successful law practice. 243 00:11:49,222 --> 00:11:50,022 That's what he wants to focus on. 244 00:11:51,482 --> 00:11:54,232 But if somebody came to me and they said, well, I'm a generalist. 245 00:11:54,485 --> 00:11:58,515 I would say, okay, well, do you want to work with a specific type of person? 246 00:11:58,535 --> 00:12:00,265 And they may say, not really. 247 00:12:00,485 --> 00:12:02,635 Then I'd probably say, do you want to write a book? 248 00:12:02,635 --> 00:12:04,725 And they'd probably say, not really. 249 00:12:05,025 --> 00:12:07,635 Those are the kinds of people that tend to want to write fiction. 250 00:12:08,565 --> 00:12:09,785 Ah, okay. 251 00:12:11,185 --> 00:12:11,735 That's what I've noticed. 252 00:12:12,245 --> 00:12:16,645 You know, they'd rather be a John Grisham than, you know, than a Rene Brown, 253 00:12:17,025 --> 00:12:17,175 so to speak. 254 00:12:17,175 --> 00:12:18,225 Right, right. 255 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:19,730 There are a lot of lawyers. 256 00:12:19,730 --> 00:12:20,687 I agree. 257 00:12:20,763 --> 00:12:24,183 I know quite a few of those who would much rather either screenplay. 258 00:12:24,283 --> 00:12:25,763 I used to live in LA for a long time. 259 00:12:26,067 --> 00:12:26,557 Oh, right. 260 00:12:26,867 --> 00:12:27,027 That 261 00:12:30,750 --> 00:12:31,090 is great. 262 00:12:31,090 --> 00:12:34,683 Well, speaking of books and screenplays, you know, let's talk about intellectual 263 00:12:34,683 --> 00:12:38,160 property and say, I mean, you're kind of unique in that, you know, because you 264 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,273 work with lawyers, the term intellectual property isn't that foreign to your 265 00:12:42,273 --> 00:12:47,518 clients, but when you, Oh, Think about, working, your work that you do for your 266 00:12:47,518 --> 00:12:48,898 business as well as for your clients. 267 00:12:49,202 --> 00:12:54,202 Does the term intellectual property ever come up or is it just, thinking about 268 00:12:54,202 --> 00:12:58,302 the business impacts or like how does it fit into the conversation if at all? 269 00:12:58,595 --> 00:13:00,575 Oh, yeah, I'm thinking about it all the time. 270 00:13:00,825 --> 00:13:04,875 Maybe it's because I have friends who are attorneys who are intellectual 271 00:13:04,905 --> 00:13:10,535 property and trademark attorneys and stuff, but I think protecting your ideas. 272 00:13:10,820 --> 00:13:14,953 is everything, especially as an online entrepreneur, which I am technically 273 00:13:14,953 --> 00:13:16,713 I'm everything I have is online. 274 00:13:16,977 --> 00:13:18,897 I don't have anything tangible. 275 00:13:19,150 --> 00:13:22,350 other than my books, but I don't have tangible stuff. 276 00:13:22,350 --> 00:13:22,910 I have. 277 00:13:23,172 --> 00:13:28,055 ideas and we need to protect them because we don't want people to steal them. 278 00:13:28,198 --> 00:13:29,348 I will never forget. 279 00:13:29,348 --> 00:13:33,188 So when I was back in the baby industry and selling tangible 280 00:13:33,188 --> 00:13:38,382 products, there were, several trade shows that we would go to every year. 281 00:13:38,652 --> 00:13:46,012 And you knew if you saw somebody walking around with, Their iPhone videoing that 282 00:13:46,012 --> 00:13:50,888 they were going to potentially steal what it was you were selling in in your 283 00:13:50,888 --> 00:13:58,868 booth interest, take it back to China and manufacture it at a much steeper discount. 284 00:13:59,098 --> 00:13:59,848 Wow. 285 00:13:59,975 --> 00:14:01,265 That is interesting. 286 00:14:01,445 --> 00:14:02,850 So there was a lot of that going on. 287 00:14:02,850 --> 00:14:06,087 Mm-hmm . And, if you've ever been in a trade show atmosphere, you become. 288 00:14:06,435 --> 00:14:10,525 Instant friends with the people, if they're kind, you become instant friends 289 00:14:10,525 --> 00:14:12,115 with the people at the booths near you. 290 00:14:12,288 --> 00:14:16,362 Even if you're selling competing products, there's really, it's not a competition. 291 00:14:16,632 --> 00:14:20,302 we would all notify each other, oh, here comes another video, watch out. 292 00:14:20,545 --> 00:14:24,495 So, all that to say, it's not that obvious. 293 00:14:24,812 --> 00:14:27,715 When you're an online entrepreneur, when you're a coach, when you're a 294 00:14:27,715 --> 00:14:28,795 consultant, it's not that obvious. 295 00:14:28,795 --> 00:14:32,345 nobody's walking into your house and holding up their iPhone and filming you. 296 00:14:32,368 --> 00:14:36,928 But, I hear stories all the time of people creating programs and then 297 00:14:36,958 --> 00:14:38,348 somebody coming in and ripping it off. 298 00:14:38,502 --> 00:14:38,852 Yeah, they're 299 00:14:38,852 --> 00:14:41,585 not coming into your home because you're putting it into the world, 300 00:14:41,595 --> 00:14:46,438 as we, you know, use our expertise, we put it in a package of some sort 301 00:14:46,438 --> 00:14:50,598 that we are offering to the world, making sure that we are perfectly 302 00:14:50,608 --> 00:14:52,518 protecting it is even more important. 303 00:14:52,798 --> 00:14:53,668 Absolutely. 304 00:14:54,118 --> 00:14:59,432 So what challenges did you face as you were scaling your business? 305 00:14:59,962 --> 00:15:00,612 Oh, none. 306 00:15:00,612 --> 00:15:01,432 It's been so easy. 307 00:15:03,782 --> 00:15:04,912 Just kidding, everybody. 308 00:15:06,082 --> 00:15:07,922 what challenge haven't I faced? 309 00:15:07,932 --> 00:15:08,362 I don't know. 310 00:15:08,362 --> 00:15:09,012 Name one. 311 00:15:09,012 --> 00:15:10,182 I'll give you the story. 312 00:15:10,963 --> 00:15:11,613 Challenge. 313 00:15:12,375 --> 00:15:17,107 You know, you're used to kind of doing customized work with your clients, 314 00:15:17,217 --> 00:15:20,887 but it's not really scalable because you do it all over, you know, new 315 00:15:20,897 --> 00:15:22,007 every time you have a new client. 316 00:15:22,249 --> 00:15:22,640 Yes. 317 00:15:22,710 --> 00:15:23,150 Okay. 318 00:15:23,150 --> 00:15:23,540 so. 319 00:15:23,788 --> 00:15:27,813 When I started out in this iteration of the business, I had a business coach, 320 00:15:27,813 --> 00:15:31,840 my first business coach ever, told me that because I'm a writer, I should 321 00:15:31,850 --> 00:15:33,650 be writing people's content for them. 322 00:15:33,843 --> 00:15:35,953 And so for a year, I did that. 323 00:15:36,203 --> 00:15:41,143 I had clients, I was writing their blogs, I was writing their emails. 324 00:15:41,282 --> 00:15:46,350 Now, of course, this was pre dating AI, people were paying me. 325 00:15:47,657 --> 00:15:51,590 I didn't love it, but I thought I had to do it because she told 326 00:15:51,590 --> 00:15:53,580 me I had to and I'm very dutiful. 327 00:15:53,770 --> 00:15:57,570 I realized I couldn't scale that though because I was doing it myself. 328 00:15:57,810 --> 00:15:58,100 Yeah. 329 00:15:58,510 --> 00:15:59,500 because you write. 330 00:15:59,820 --> 00:16:03,670 Sometimes you're just not in the mood and sometimes it just doesn't 331 00:16:03,670 --> 00:16:10,160 flow and having to be a writer 24 7 was really taxing for me. 332 00:16:10,433 --> 00:16:17,113 So My challenge was how do I scale this and do I even want to do this? 333 00:16:17,713 --> 00:16:19,973 Got a new business coach who said to me. 334 00:16:20,217 --> 00:16:21,387 Do you want to do this? 335 00:16:21,740 --> 00:16:26,063 And I said, I shrunk down and like a little, and I said, no, 336 00:16:26,427 --> 00:16:28,997 do I have to, don't I have to? 337 00:16:28,997 --> 00:16:31,907 And she said, no, of course you don't have to do this. 338 00:16:31,917 --> 00:16:33,147 It's your business. 339 00:16:33,147 --> 00:16:34,057 You're in charge. 340 00:16:34,057 --> 00:16:36,057 And I went, Oh, light bulb. 341 00:16:36,337 --> 00:16:40,567 so many of the challenges have been mindset things. 342 00:16:40,750 --> 00:16:43,420 Me minimizing my abilities. 343 00:16:43,674 --> 00:16:47,848 all the trauma that I walk around with as a badge of honor. 344 00:16:48,035 --> 00:16:54,345 And making sure that I listen to what I know inside as opposed to 345 00:16:54,345 --> 00:16:56,595 what other people are telling me. 346 00:16:56,705 --> 00:17:00,815 Because Cause when I listen to what other people are telling me and it 347 00:17:00,815 --> 00:17:03,638 doesn't feel right, I hit up against an 348 00:17:03,638 --> 00:17:04,008 issue. 349 00:17:04,343 --> 00:17:04,773 Yeah, 350 00:17:05,053 --> 00:17:05,313 right. 351 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:06,970 Mindset is so important. 352 00:17:06,970 --> 00:17:09,430 I think we don't talk about it enough. 353 00:17:09,430 --> 00:17:10,060 Honestly. 354 00:17:10,257 --> 00:17:13,427 when we feel I mean, I think we've been started the conversation with us 355 00:17:13,457 --> 00:17:16,187 thinking that we have to do everything that we're the only person who can 356 00:17:16,377 --> 00:17:22,193 deliver, and once we kind of get away from that, how liberating it is and 357 00:17:22,193 --> 00:17:24,288 to Look at our businesses differently. 358 00:17:24,288 --> 00:17:29,912 Like how can I streamline, package, systematize, whatever it is to make 359 00:17:29,912 --> 00:17:31,822 a business that works better for us. 360 00:17:32,122 --> 00:17:33,352 Those are very sexy words. 361 00:17:33,432 --> 00:17:33,802 Yeah. 362 00:17:34,052 --> 00:17:34,952 Very sexy words. 363 00:17:34,962 --> 00:17:37,442 Streamline, systematize, package. 364 00:17:37,832 --> 00:17:38,022 Yes. 365 00:17:38,132 --> 00:17:38,782 I was told 366 00:17:38,782 --> 00:17:40,102 I need to be spicier. 367 00:17:40,102 --> 00:17:43,670 I mean, that's as spicy as I get right there. 368 00:17:43,670 --> 00:17:44,420 I like that. 369 00:17:44,990 --> 00:17:47,300 So now let's talk about contracts for a second. 370 00:17:47,587 --> 00:17:51,717 And so people are afraid of contracts, you're interesting because your 371 00:17:51,787 --> 00:17:55,487 clients are lawyers, but they're also you have non lawyer clients as well. 372 00:17:55,673 --> 00:17:59,020 but think of them as a barrier to the relationship. 373 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,520 And I think of them as like the opposite. 374 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:03,580 Like they make sure we're all on the same page. 375 00:18:03,697 --> 00:18:06,720 How do you think about contracts in your business? 376 00:18:06,956 --> 00:18:10,253 And can you give us an example of when, you know, maybe it's safe to, 377 00:18:10,343 --> 00:18:12,063 to have the right contract in place? 378 00:18:12,497 --> 00:18:14,287 Well, I can give you an example of when it. 379 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:15,440 Bailed me 380 00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:19,880 because I had the wrong contract. 381 00:18:20,530 --> 00:18:21,730 How's that? 382 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:26,540 that was a big learning curve for me because I'm on the side of, Ooh, 383 00:18:26,590 --> 00:18:31,940 contracts are scary because I'm not an attorney, but as I've grown up as an 384 00:18:31,950 --> 00:18:37,100 entrepreneur, I read the contracts now because I've realized it's still English. 385 00:18:37,455 --> 00:18:37,985 Yes, 386 00:18:38,025 --> 00:18:39,665 which is my native language. 387 00:18:40,795 --> 00:18:43,475 And if I don't understand something I can ask. 388 00:18:43,515 --> 00:18:43,975 Yes. 389 00:18:44,705 --> 00:18:50,138 But what didn't help me was I was working with a client as four or five years ago 390 00:18:50,138 --> 00:18:54,870 now, and she signed the contract, and we were had a six month contract we were 391 00:18:54,870 --> 00:18:56,830 going to work together and by month. 392 00:18:57,100 --> 00:19:01,100 Two and a half, she started kind of ghosting me. 393 00:19:01,353 --> 00:19:06,173 And then by month three, I get this long email that she would like to take 394 00:19:06,173 --> 00:19:09,197 a pause, and then she never resumed. 395 00:19:09,817 --> 00:19:17,287 And there's that fine line of, Do I enforce the contract, or do I let her go? 396 00:19:17,437 --> 00:19:22,497 Now, the scared child in me is always of mine to let them go. 397 00:19:22,750 --> 00:19:27,487 Because I don't want people to smear me online or make me feel bad 398 00:19:27,487 --> 00:19:31,000 about myself or abandon me if we're really going deep into what the real 399 00:19:31,060 --> 00:19:32,960 feelings are and it'll be abandoned. 400 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,425 Um, so I made a decision to just Let it go. 401 00:19:37,465 --> 00:19:40,465 Because I'm of the mind that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make 402 00:19:40,465 --> 00:19:44,858 it drink and you can't force this horse to drink water and it's just not going 403 00:19:44,858 --> 00:19:46,518 to end well, especially for what I do. 404 00:19:46,518 --> 00:19:48,498 I can't force somebody to market themselves. 405 00:19:48,508 --> 00:19:49,698 It's like crazy pants. 406 00:19:49,813 --> 00:19:53,933 but that was a really important lesson because I now have it in my contract. 407 00:19:54,143 --> 00:19:57,613 That you can't break the contract just because you feel like it. 408 00:19:57,703 --> 00:19:58,323 That's right. 409 00:19:59,213 --> 00:20:00,093 Very important. 410 00:20:00,257 --> 00:20:04,983 Yeah, having, you know, the things, milestones, getting paid 411 00:20:04,983 --> 00:20:06,943 up front, which I'm a huge fan of. 412 00:20:06,983 --> 00:20:07,083 Oh, 413 00:20:07,153 --> 00:20:07,663 yes. 414 00:20:07,663 --> 00:20:09,797 Can we talk about that for a minute? 415 00:20:09,797 --> 00:20:10,463 Yes, please. 416 00:20:10,700 --> 00:20:17,058 So, I recall once, This is very much at the beginning of my entrepreneurial 417 00:20:17,148 --> 00:20:19,602 stuff after the nursing wear. 418 00:20:19,965 --> 00:20:24,002 I did some work for a woman, and it took everything in me to 419 00:20:24,022 --> 00:20:26,932 ask her for, are you ready, 250. 420 00:20:27,925 --> 00:20:32,422 I might as well have been asking for 250 million, the way it felt. 421 00:20:33,262 --> 00:20:39,657 And it took her six weeks to write me a check for $250 and 422 00:20:39,657 --> 00:20:41,457 I had to go drive to meet her. 423 00:20:41,457 --> 00:20:42,897 To pick up the check. 424 00:20:43,787 --> 00:20:43,997 Wow. 425 00:20:44,363 --> 00:20:47,017 And I learned from that. 426 00:20:47,270 --> 00:20:51,330 Get paid first because people are not gonna pay. 427 00:20:52,608 --> 00:20:57,386 it is a big lesson that many people have to learn the hard way. 428 00:20:57,773 --> 00:21:00,873 if you have the right business model, I mean, granted, if you're billing out, 429 00:21:00,873 --> 00:21:03,097 really, it's very hard to charge up front. 430 00:21:03,299 --> 00:21:06,149 that's a sign that You have to look at your revenue model there. 431 00:21:06,393 --> 00:21:11,193 but getting paid up front or at least, you know, based on milestones at minimum. 432 00:21:11,413 --> 00:21:12,583 Very, very important. 433 00:21:12,653 --> 00:21:13,233 I agree. 434 00:21:13,503 --> 00:21:18,596 what is one major, tip that you like to give to, people who are 435 00:21:18,736 --> 00:21:23,083 thinking about writing a book, like where in their business might they. 436 00:21:23,186 --> 00:21:26,549 want to be first, what should they be thinking about if this is something 437 00:21:26,549 --> 00:21:27,639 that they want to do in the future? 438 00:21:27,946 --> 00:21:30,836 If they're thinking about writing a book or wondering if they should, 439 00:21:31,123 --> 00:21:34,243 what I would say is make sure that you don't plan to change what you're doing. 440 00:21:34,456 --> 00:21:38,606 Because when you spend so much time writing a book that is meant to boost 441 00:21:38,606 --> 00:21:42,926 your credibility, your reputation, your profitability, and then you go 442 00:21:42,926 --> 00:21:47,969 and you veer in a completely different direction, and you went from, being 443 00:21:48,179 --> 00:21:54,036 physician to doing underwater basket weaving, your physician book is not going 444 00:21:54,036 --> 00:21:56,578 to help you get Basket weaving clients. 445 00:21:56,818 --> 00:21:57,298 Yes. 446 00:21:57,434 --> 00:22:00,738 So be sure that you're in this for the long haul. 447 00:22:01,184 --> 00:22:04,284 have you come across that where people write a book and then they 448 00:22:04,464 --> 00:22:05,474 decide to become basket weavers? 449 00:22:05,474 --> 00:22:05,874 Okay. 450 00:22:05,914 --> 00:22:06,374 All right. 451 00:22:06,614 --> 00:22:06,954 Yeah. 452 00:22:06,954 --> 00:22:07,344 Oh yeah. 453 00:22:07,644 --> 00:22:08,964 This is how the conversation goes. 454 00:22:09,218 --> 00:22:09,698 It's funny. 455 00:22:09,748 --> 00:22:11,628 you know, when you get to a point in your career where. 456 00:22:12,133 --> 00:22:16,973 you can just sort of recite what people say because you've done this so long. 457 00:22:17,013 --> 00:22:19,883 I love when you get to that point and you really feel, I'm 458 00:22:19,883 --> 00:22:21,193 just having a moment right now. 459 00:22:21,193 --> 00:22:22,483 So thanks for sharing it with me. 460 00:22:23,243 --> 00:22:25,813 People come up to me and say, I wrote a book about 10 years 461 00:22:25,813 --> 00:22:27,996 ago and it's about blah. 462 00:22:28,263 --> 00:22:29,733 Yeah, but I don't do that anymore. 463 00:22:29,733 --> 00:22:30,893 What do you think I should do with the book? 464 00:22:31,363 --> 00:22:38,274 Oh, and I say, well, do any of this in your current line of work? 465 00:22:38,274 --> 00:22:41,890 And they're like, no, well, I think it's just going to continue collecting 466 00:22:41,890 --> 00:22:43,630 dust under the stairs in that box. 467 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:44,130 Yes. 468 00:22:45,995 --> 00:22:49,815 I would say, be sure that this is what you want. 469 00:22:49,995 --> 00:22:51,729 Now I am a little bit. 470 00:22:51,992 --> 00:22:56,415 conservative in that because I'm the kind of person who will never get a 471 00:22:56,415 --> 00:22:58,115 tattoo because it's too permanent. 472 00:22:58,242 --> 00:23:02,492 It was very hard to name my children because it was permanent. 473 00:23:02,742 --> 00:23:07,179 I never named my stuffed animals as a child because that was too permanent. 474 00:23:07,595 --> 00:23:11,812 So I had to be completely sure that doing my book. 475 00:23:12,047 --> 00:23:14,405 on that topic was going to stick. 476 00:23:14,425 --> 00:23:16,605 And so I guess I project that on to others. 477 00:23:18,269 --> 00:23:19,829 Well, that is excellent advice. 478 00:23:19,859 --> 00:23:24,575 That's an investment to make in something that is not a part of 479 00:23:24,575 --> 00:23:27,615 your near mid and long term future. 480 00:23:27,839 --> 00:23:28,765 Thank you for that. 481 00:23:28,975 --> 00:23:31,695 So tell me what is new and exciting. 482 00:23:31,695 --> 00:23:34,365 Anything coming up in at big impact books. 483 00:23:34,602 --> 00:23:36,002 Yes, I have a new book coming out. 484 00:23:36,142 --> 00:23:37,337 I'm very excited. 485 00:23:37,337 --> 00:23:41,242 I wrote it way faster than my first book. 486 00:23:41,242 --> 00:23:42,972 So my first book, it took me three years. 487 00:23:43,012 --> 00:23:44,972 This one, it's been about three months. 488 00:23:45,225 --> 00:23:47,305 So I'm definitely condensing things. 489 00:23:47,305 --> 00:23:49,315 I wrote most of it over the holiday break. 490 00:23:49,495 --> 00:23:52,212 I'm just in the editing process right now. 491 00:23:52,479 --> 00:23:58,059 And I don't have a full title, but I can share that it talks about the benefits 492 00:23:58,089 --> 00:24:03,019 of writing a book, especially for attorneys, and also sort of how to start 493 00:24:03,219 --> 00:24:07,909 thinking about it and laying it out and really developing a book that's going 494 00:24:07,909 --> 00:24:09,722 to move the needle for your business. 495 00:24:10,085 --> 00:24:11,155 That is fantastic. 496 00:24:11,339 --> 00:24:14,655 did you ever worry about losing business to your book? 497 00:24:14,935 --> 00:24:15,995 No. 498 00:24:16,255 --> 00:24:17,995 No, because here's why. 499 00:24:18,339 --> 00:24:21,945 Even though I give like so much information, it's so 500 00:24:21,945 --> 00:24:23,325 hard to do things on our own. 501 00:24:23,505 --> 00:24:26,145 That's why people come to me and they're like, I've been 502 00:24:26,145 --> 00:24:27,905 writing a book for five years. 503 00:24:28,172 --> 00:24:29,552 I've got one chapter. 504 00:24:29,552 --> 00:24:31,037 Yeah. 505 00:24:31,677 --> 00:24:32,847 Can you help me? 506 00:24:32,847 --> 00:24:33,847 I got a few outlines. 507 00:24:34,707 --> 00:24:36,447 Exactly, exactly. 508 00:24:36,819 --> 00:24:39,777 There's a reason that we have coaches and consultants. 509 00:24:39,837 --> 00:24:42,217 It's because they know what they're doing and they help 510 00:24:42,217 --> 00:24:44,377 us get to where we want to go. 511 00:24:44,579 --> 00:24:48,122 it's just like we said at the top of this, we can't be expected to do 512 00:24:48,142 --> 00:24:50,512 everything ourselves and find success. 513 00:24:50,682 --> 00:24:52,042 It takes a village. 514 00:24:52,540 --> 00:24:57,084 Yeah, I think people gatekeep information because they're like, well, if I give away 515 00:24:57,084 --> 00:24:58,694 too much, then what do they need me for? 516 00:24:58,734 --> 00:25:03,150 Well, if they are DIY er, they were never going to be your client. 517 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:04,610 These are not the same people. 518 00:25:04,940 --> 00:25:06,600 They are not the same human beings. 519 00:25:06,980 --> 00:25:09,240 So I would not worry about that at all. 520 00:25:09,554 --> 00:25:10,164 Exactly. 521 00:25:10,284 --> 00:25:10,624 Yeah. 522 00:25:10,694 --> 00:25:14,830 So we will make sure, well, first tell us where we can find out 523 00:25:14,830 --> 00:25:17,670 more about you, connect with you, find out more about your book. 524 00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:20,020 We'll make sure we have all that stuff in the show notes for people. 525 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:21,060 Okay. 526 00:25:21,060 --> 00:25:26,190 So you can always just get on my calendar at meet Melanie dot VIP. 527 00:25:26,230 --> 00:25:27,320 So I'd love to meet you. 528 00:25:27,374 --> 00:25:31,354 And my website is your big impact book. 529 00:25:32,334 --> 00:25:35,554 So it's big impact books, but the website is yourbigimpactbook. 530 00:25:37,424 --> 00:25:37,754 com. 531 00:25:37,854 --> 00:25:38,724 And everything is there. 532 00:25:38,724 --> 00:25:40,224 All the freebies, all the fun, 533 00:25:40,524 --> 00:25:40,894 everything. 534 00:25:41,369 --> 00:25:42,269 Fantastic. 535 00:25:42,453 --> 00:25:44,579 Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Melanie. 536 00:25:44,579 --> 00:25:45,819 It's been fantastic to talk to you. 537 00:25:45,819 --> 00:25:49,632 You were a lot of fun and I had a great time and great information. 538 00:25:49,972 --> 00:25:51,092 Much appreciated. 539 00:25:51,309 --> 00:25:53,029 And to everyone, thank you for joining us. 540 00:25:53,079 --> 00:25:58,595 Please find Melanie at the links and all the great information she just provided. 541 00:25:58,869 --> 00:26:00,539 And thanks for joining us this week.