1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,860 I feel stuck in a certain stage of business. 2 00:00:02,069 --> 00:00:03,149 Why don't they just get it? 3 00:00:03,810 --> 00:00:06,659 But just like in any relationship, sometimes when you go inwards 4 00:00:06,659 --> 00:00:08,461 and you look at like, wait, what is it that I'm not getting? 5 00:00:08,709 --> 00:00:12,089 What do I need to change about how I communicate, about how I show up? 6 00:00:12,479 --> 00:00:14,219 It can change a whole dynamic of a relationship. 7 00:00:14,490 --> 00:00:17,250 And we forget that that's the same with your customers and with your audience. 8 00:00:18,365 --> 00:00:22,235 Figuring out what it is that you need to change to communicate better to them. 9 00:00:22,595 --> 00:00:26,375 And you know, just seeing them again as that individual person is what 10 00:00:26,380 --> 00:00:29,555 can really shift and change that whole dynamic of a relationship. 11 00:00:34,984 --> 00:00:39,124 Welcome to the e-Commerce podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. 12 00:00:39,484 --> 00:00:43,504 Now, the E-Commerce podcast is all about helping you deliver e-commerce. 13 00:00:44,194 --> 00:00:45,034 Wow. 14 00:00:45,154 --> 00:00:49,054 And to help us do just that today I'm gonna be chatting 15 00:00:49,264 --> 00:00:52,214 with Monica Sharma-Patnekar. 16 00:00:52,794 --> 00:00:57,774 Uh, about discovering the human element behind the numbers. 17 00:00:57,894 --> 00:00:59,094 It's an intriguing title. 18 00:00:59,124 --> 00:01:00,234 I can't wait to get into it. 19 00:01:00,474 --> 00:01:04,584 But before we dive into our discussion, uh, let me share with 20 00:01:04,584 --> 00:01:06,594 you my previous podcast pick. 21 00:01:06,654 --> 00:01:10,874 Oh yes, A previous podcast episode that I think you'll enjoy. 22 00:01:10,874 --> 00:01:12,284 And yes, there's a lot of P's in that. 23 00:01:12,674 --> 00:01:18,284 Uh, so check out, uh, top content marketing advice for your online business, 24 00:01:18,734 --> 00:01:24,204 uh, from Tim Hughes, or check out from Startup to Growth with Maureen Mwangi. 25 00:01:24,224 --> 00:01:25,574 Another great episode. 26 00:01:25,784 --> 00:01:28,534 You can get, uh, access to my podcast picks. 27 00:01:28,854 --> 00:01:34,584 Or our entire podcast archive for free on our website at ecommercepodcast.net. 28 00:01:34,824 --> 00:01:38,844 Plus, if you sign up to, uh, our newsletter, we'll send you the 29 00:01:38,844 --> 00:01:42,084 links to our podcast picks, along with the notes, and of course, the 30 00:01:42,084 --> 00:01:44,034 links from today's show with Monica. 31 00:01:44,244 --> 00:01:47,064 They all get delivered straight to your inbox at no cost to you, 32 00:01:47,064 --> 00:01:49,414 which is pretty amazing now. 33 00:01:50,674 --> 00:01:53,644 I'm sure you've come across right, a bunch of folks stuck 34 00:01:53,644 --> 00:01:54,874 with their e-commerce business. 35 00:01:54,879 --> 00:01:56,584 You may even be one of them. 36 00:01:56,824 --> 00:02:01,594 You may have got siloed like I did, uh, working on just one or two areas of 37 00:02:01,594 --> 00:02:03,904 your business and miss the big picture. 38 00:02:03,904 --> 00:02:07,924 Well enter e-commerce cohort to solve this problem. 39 00:02:08,234 --> 00:02:12,244 It's a lightweight membership group with guided monthly sprints that cycle 40 00:02:12,244 --> 00:02:15,709 through all the key areas of e-commerce. 41 00:02:15,709 --> 00:02:16,009 Yes. 42 00:02:16,009 --> 00:02:20,359 The sole purpose of cohort is to provide you with clear actionable jobs to be 43 00:02:20,359 --> 00:02:25,519 done so you'll know what to work on and get the support to get it done. 44 00:02:25,519 --> 00:02:29,119 So whether you are just starting out an e-commerce or if like me, you're 45 00:02:29,119 --> 00:02:30,794 a well established e-commercer. 46 00:02:30,939 --> 00:02:33,219 Or a bit of a dinosaur, as some people like to say. 47 00:02:33,519 --> 00:02:38,049 Uh, I encourage you to definitely check out ecommercecohort.com. 48 00:02:38,739 --> 00:02:42,669 That's ecommercecohort.com, especially if you're in E-com. 49 00:02:42,699 --> 00:02:43,629 I mean, just go and check it out. 50 00:02:43,659 --> 00:02:44,109 Have a look. 51 00:02:44,109 --> 00:02:45,009 Let me know what you think. 52 00:02:45,039 --> 00:02:45,729 It's awesome. 53 00:02:45,789 --> 00:02:46,689 I'm in there every month. 54 00:02:47,054 --> 00:02:50,264 Uh, we've got some great people doing some great coaching in there as well. 55 00:02:50,324 --> 00:02:53,174 Uh, some amazing stuff's come out of the last few weeks, but do check it out. 56 00:02:53,744 --> 00:02:54,374 Okay. 57 00:02:54,404 --> 00:02:55,484 Let's talk about Monica. 58 00:02:55,514 --> 00:03:01,054 She is an e-commerce brand mentor and consultant, a purpose-driven digital 59 00:03:01,364 --> 00:03:07,094 brand, marketing and strategy professional with, check this out, 17 years of 60 00:03:07,094 --> 00:03:09,629 global experience building brands. 61 00:03:09,929 --> 00:03:14,519 She's worked across diverse sectors from companies, uh, and companies from 62 00:03:14,519 --> 00:03:17,009 Fortune 500 to scale, and startups. 63 00:03:17,009 --> 00:03:20,549 In other words, the ideal guest for the show. 64 00:03:20,849 --> 00:03:22,739 Oh, yes, Monica, welcome to the show. 65 00:03:23,009 --> 00:03:25,799 Great to have you all the way from sunny Amsterdam at least. 66 00:03:25,804 --> 00:03:26,429 I hope it's sunny. 67 00:03:26,759 --> 00:03:27,109 How are you doing? 68 00:03:27,809 --> 00:03:28,549 Hi Matt. 69 00:03:28,549 --> 00:03:29,549 Thanks for having me on. 70 00:03:29,729 --> 00:03:31,319 Yes, I'm, I'm all good. 71 00:03:31,319 --> 00:03:33,269 It's sunny now after Stormy nights. 72 00:03:34,279 --> 00:03:34,909 Oh, well, it's good for you. 73 00:03:34,909 --> 00:03:35,959 It's not sunny here. 74 00:03:36,499 --> 00:03:37,489 At least it's not raining. 75 00:03:37,489 --> 00:03:41,119 I suppose that's a, that's a, that's a bonus, isn't it, here in Liverpool. 76 00:03:41,119 --> 00:03:41,179 Yeah. 77 00:03:41,599 --> 00:03:45,829 So have you, have you always been native to Amsterdam or have you, have you 78 00:03:45,829 --> 00:03:49,054 sort of arrived there at some point? 79 00:03:49,174 --> 00:03:49,354 No. 80 00:03:49,444 --> 00:03:51,094 So, well, native to Holland. 81 00:03:51,604 --> 00:03:52,804 I'm born and raised here. 82 00:03:53,044 --> 00:03:55,264 I was a Indian by Heritage, that's by birth. 83 00:03:55,294 --> 00:03:57,604 Um, grew up in Behague. 84 00:03:57,609 --> 00:04:00,664 My family's all there, but I've been living in Amsterdam for 85 00:04:00,934 --> 00:04:02,884 over 10, 11 years now as well. 86 00:04:02,884 --> 00:04:03,394 So yeah. 87 00:04:03,394 --> 00:04:04,054 Oh, fantastic. 88 00:04:04,124 --> 00:04:04,734 Fantastic. 89 00:04:05,644 --> 00:04:07,024 Uh, lovely part of the world. 90 00:04:07,144 --> 00:04:08,884 Uh, and definitely put on tourist. 91 00:04:09,004 --> 00:04:09,634 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 92 00:04:09,634 --> 00:04:10,324 No, that's awesome. 93 00:04:10,384 --> 00:04:10,984 That's awesome. 94 00:04:11,434 --> 00:04:16,954 So, With your experience in sort of building purpose driven brands, Monica, 95 00:04:16,954 --> 00:04:22,924 I'm curious to know, how do you think tapping into the sort of the human aspect 96 00:04:22,924 --> 00:04:28,354 of brand growth can lead to say, a more sustainable and successful business in 97 00:04:28,354 --> 00:04:30,964 today's fast-paced e-commerce landscape. 98 00:04:31,144 --> 00:04:32,674 That's a heck of a first question. 99 00:04:32,859 --> 00:04:34,114 So let's just jump straight in. 100 00:04:34,119 --> 00:04:35,614 That's, that's a very big first question. 101 00:04:35,614 --> 00:04:36,995 There's so much I can say about that. 102 00:04:37,534 --> 00:04:38,734 So, uh, let me dive in. 103 00:04:39,244 --> 00:04:42,544 I think one, I think you, like you said, you, you said it, you know, the 104 00:04:42,544 --> 00:04:46,804 fast-paced e-commerce world, and I think over the last few years, decade. 105 00:04:47,479 --> 00:04:49,999 It has become such a huge numbers game, right? 106 00:04:49,999 --> 00:04:50,059 Yeah. 107 00:04:50,149 --> 00:04:52,279 Um, no so much. 108 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:53,439 If this is your conversion rate? 109 00:04:53,439 --> 00:04:54,349 This is the traffic. 110 00:04:54,349 --> 00:04:56,239 What should we tweak to do that? 111 00:04:56,599 --> 00:04:58,519 Sometimes it feels like it's, a little game. 112 00:04:58,519 --> 00:05:00,799 You know, what can you tweak to just increase those numbers? 113 00:05:01,099 --> 00:05:02,759 And yes, numbers are important in business. 114 00:05:02,779 --> 00:05:04,564 You need to know your numbers. 115 00:05:04,564 --> 00:05:09,739 But if we just take a step back and just think about it from the bigger picture, 116 00:05:10,129 --> 00:05:12,679 depending what stage of business you are at, you're either getting, I don't 117 00:05:12,679 --> 00:05:17,449 know, a thousand, 5,000, 10,000 website visitors, and that's how we look at it. 118 00:05:17,449 --> 00:05:20,569 Like, oh, traffic coming in, but that's a thousand, 5,000, 119 00:05:20,569 --> 00:05:22,479 10,000 individual human beings. 120 00:05:23,109 --> 00:05:27,109 Coming to your site on a monthly basis, and imagine the ones interacting 121 00:05:27,109 --> 00:05:30,079 with you on social media, reading your emails, clicking through 122 00:05:30,139 --> 00:05:32,169 individual actual human beings. 123 00:05:32,899 --> 00:05:36,079 Now, if you had those people walking into a store or an event that you were 124 00:05:36,084 --> 00:05:39,559 speaking at, how would you interact with them, you know, as humans? 125 00:05:40,009 --> 00:05:42,079 We wanna be seen, we wanna be understood. 126 00:05:42,079 --> 00:05:47,149 We wanna be heard, and, people buy from brands that, that, that do that for them. 127 00:05:47,189 --> 00:05:48,709 You know, that they can relate to. 128 00:05:49,159 --> 00:05:52,429 And the biggest brands in the world you'll see are the ones that are able 129 00:05:52,434 --> 00:05:54,409 to tap into that because people buy. 130 00:05:55,024 --> 00:05:56,614 Especially in higher price category. 131 00:05:56,614 --> 00:05:58,984 You know, not the daily grocery shopping I'm talking about, but 132 00:05:58,984 --> 00:06:02,194 actually those things that are the once in life because of how it makes 133 00:06:02,194 --> 00:06:06,394 them feel, and being able to recognize that these are actually individual 134 00:06:06,394 --> 00:06:08,704 human beings coming to their site. 135 00:06:09,544 --> 00:06:13,684 I always challenge people like, how would you speak to them if that's how you 136 00:06:13,684 --> 00:06:17,884 started, if that's how you thought about it, what would you be telling them versus 137 00:06:17,884 --> 00:06:21,334 just seeing those as a, as another number on your website or in your analytics? 138 00:06:22,294 --> 00:06:23,914 Yeah, that's a very good point. 139 00:06:24,334 --> 00:06:25,024 It's funny, isn't it? 140 00:06:25,024 --> 00:06:28,114 Cuz you, I was talking to someone about this the other day in the sense that 141 00:06:29,524 --> 00:06:33,634 we've had, um, we, we were talking about one of the YouTube videos we've put out. 142 00:06:33,694 --> 00:06:33,754 Yeah. 143 00:06:33,754 --> 00:06:36,004 That's had, um, I put it out. 144 00:06:36,004 --> 00:06:39,484 It was honestly, uh, Monica, it was the simplest YouTube video. 145 00:06:39,484 --> 00:06:39,814 I, yeah. 146 00:06:40,114 --> 00:06:42,874 Anyway, we put out this video, it's two and a half minutes long 147 00:06:42,874 --> 00:06:44,854 about how to create a PowerPoint. 148 00:06:44,854 --> 00:06:46,355 I think I put it out like 10 years ago. 149 00:06:46,524 --> 00:06:47,344 Do you know what I mean? 150 00:06:47,344 --> 00:06:48,874 I, I, it was a long time ago, isn't it? 151 00:06:48,874 --> 00:06:50,614 Yeah, it's well outta date. 152 00:06:50,614 --> 00:06:54,184 Let me just tell you because PowerPoint has evolved, but I put this video out 153 00:06:54,244 --> 00:06:55,954 and it's had over a million views, right? 154 00:06:56,214 --> 00:06:56,504 Yeah. 155 00:06:57,514 --> 00:06:59,344 And I was talking to somebody about that the other day. 156 00:06:59,344 --> 00:07:00,934 That's a million people. 157 00:07:00,934 --> 00:07:01,444 Yes. 158 00:07:01,804 --> 00:07:05,974 Have watched the video and I'm thinking, you know, when I go and watch 159 00:07:05,974 --> 00:07:09,694 Liverpool, I'm a bit of a Liverpool fan cuz I, I, let's not go anyway. 160 00:07:10,084 --> 00:07:13,984 Uh, when I go to the stadium, there's 50,000 people in that stadium. 161 00:07:14,074 --> 00:07:14,524 Yeah, exactly. 162 00:07:14,904 --> 00:07:22,399 That's 20 thou, uh, 20 times that amount of people have watched my video, and 163 00:07:22,399 --> 00:07:26,959 that's just one of the videos and it blows my mind when you think about it like that. 164 00:07:27,664 --> 00:07:27,784 E. 165 00:07:27,789 --> 00:07:28,384 Exactly. 166 00:07:28,384 --> 00:07:29,014 And that's my point. 167 00:07:29,014 --> 00:07:33,214 And so often we are busy thinking like, you know, oh, those people are not 168 00:07:33,219 --> 00:07:36,184 getting our message, or they're not understanding, how do I find more of them? 169 00:07:36,184 --> 00:07:38,164 Or I feel stuck in a certain stage of business. 170 00:07:38,374 --> 00:07:39,454 Why don't they just get it? 171 00:07:40,114 --> 00:07:42,964 But just like in any relationship, sometimes when you go inwards 172 00:07:42,964 --> 00:07:44,765 and you look at like, wait, what is it that I'm not getting? 173 00:07:45,014 --> 00:07:48,394 What do I need to change about how I communicate, about how I show up? 174 00:07:48,784 --> 00:07:50,524 It can change a whole dynamic of a relationship. 175 00:07:50,794 --> 00:07:53,554 And we forget that that's the same with your customers and with your audience. 176 00:07:54,669 --> 00:07:58,539 Figuring out what it is that you need to change to communicate better to them. 177 00:07:58,899 --> 00:07:59,079 Mm-hmm. 178 00:07:59,319 --> 00:08:03,099 And you know, just seeing them again as that individual person is what 179 00:08:03,104 --> 00:08:06,279 can really shift and change that whole dynamic of a relationship. 180 00:08:06,339 --> 00:08:10,149 And I think sometimes that's where we've skewed too much to the numbers. 181 00:08:10,149 --> 00:08:13,629 You know, we need to find that balance between the two and find Okay. 182 00:08:13,629 --> 00:08:15,489 That Midway and I, I'm seeing that happening. 183 00:08:15,669 --> 00:08:19,224 I'm finally seeing Facebook ad experts now talking about, oh wait, 184 00:08:19,284 --> 00:08:20,604 we need to understand the customer. 185 00:08:20,784 --> 00:08:22,704 The algorithm is no longer working for us. 186 00:08:23,484 --> 00:08:25,014 It's, it's about the messaging now. 187 00:08:25,044 --> 00:08:26,274 We can't just expect things. 188 00:08:26,274 --> 00:08:30,774 So you're seeing this conversation finally starting to happen and I'm so happy about 189 00:08:30,774 --> 00:08:34,884 that, but I just, but I still see a lot of people hesitant to do that and I say, 190 00:08:34,884 --> 00:08:38,544 I really challenge, I want to take that step back and just think of each person 191 00:08:38,544 --> 00:08:42,714 as an individual human being coming to your store that you are able to speak to. 192 00:08:42,714 --> 00:08:43,104 Yeah. 193 00:08:43,819 --> 00:08:43,999 Yeah. 194 00:08:43,999 --> 00:08:44,809 Now it's a fair point. 195 00:08:44,809 --> 00:08:48,649 I think just if you look at your daily traffic numbers and then go, okay, I've 196 00:08:48,649 --> 00:08:52,339 had whatever, a thousand, 2000 people, if you imagine those 2000 people in 197 00:08:52,339 --> 00:08:56,989 an arena, um, just sort of walking through, it's kind of like you're 198 00:08:56,989 --> 00:09:00,829 gonna change how, you're not gonna be tolerating necessarily the stuff on 199 00:09:00,834 --> 00:09:04,729 your website that you probably should be tolerated anyway, you said that. 200 00:09:04,729 --> 00:09:07,639 Um, You said that this makes you super happy, right? 201 00:09:07,639 --> 00:09:10,609 That, that this sort of more of a recognition in this area. 202 00:09:10,609 --> 00:09:10,699 Yes. 203 00:09:11,089 --> 00:09:12,559 Why does that make you super happy? 204 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,299 What sort of drives you in this whole area? 205 00:09:14,839 --> 00:09:18,589 Well, I think what we forget is that, you know, business or anything in life. 206 00:09:18,589 --> 00:09:21,259 I mean, in that essence, it it's about customer relationship. 207 00:09:21,259 --> 00:09:22,559 It's all about relationships, right? 208 00:09:23,179 --> 00:09:28,849 And, uh, we are so focused on that really quick ROI, quick return on investment. 209 00:09:29,059 --> 00:09:31,339 Whereas we forget that business is a long-term game, right? 210 00:09:31,699 --> 00:09:32,419 To build any. 211 00:09:32,704 --> 00:09:37,894 To build a long term sustainable, profitable business, it takes time, right? 212 00:09:38,014 --> 00:09:40,024 I can, I can quote a lot of things. 213 00:09:40,024 --> 00:09:43,384 It takes on average three years to build a profitable business or break even. 214 00:09:43,654 --> 00:09:46,114 Even if I look at some of the largest businesses in the world that we 215 00:09:46,114 --> 00:09:49,144 all admire, some of them not even profitable or cashflow positive, right? 216 00:09:49,144 --> 00:09:49,204 Yeah. 217 00:09:49,564 --> 00:09:52,864 So, but still everybody's like, what can I do now to see. 218 00:09:53,044 --> 00:09:56,794 10 times our way in the next 30 days and what we need to take that step back, it's 219 00:09:56,794 --> 00:10:00,364 really about building those relationships for the long term and customer loyalty 220 00:10:00,754 --> 00:10:04,474 and, you know, just speaking to people as human beings and saying, okay, how 221 00:10:04,479 --> 00:10:06,304 do I, what do they need to hear from me? 222 00:10:06,309 --> 00:10:07,924 How do I guide them to the customer journey? 223 00:10:07,924 --> 00:10:11,809 How do they help them and understand better what my product are about and 224 00:10:11,809 --> 00:10:14,029 what I do and why it would help them. 225 00:10:14,965 --> 00:10:17,689 and for me, it's really about building those long-term sustainable 226 00:10:17,689 --> 00:10:18,979 and profitable businesses. 227 00:10:19,189 --> 00:10:24,739 And not just that one-time fly by night, business that may shut down 228 00:10:24,739 --> 00:10:26,179 in the next six months to a year. 229 00:10:26,479 --> 00:10:30,079 And also as a business owner, to be able to have fun in your business. 230 00:10:31,059 --> 00:10:35,779 not just surviving, but really thriving and having some fun whilst doing it and 231 00:10:35,869 --> 00:10:39,409 growing that business is gonna help you sustain whatever lifestyle you want. 232 00:10:39,814 --> 00:10:40,234 Yeah. 233 00:10:40,534 --> 00:10:40,774 Yeah. 234 00:10:40,774 --> 00:10:44,044 No, I'm a big fan of having fun, uh, in business. 235 00:10:44,194 --> 00:10:44,434 Yes. 236 00:10:44,494 --> 00:10:46,864 Uh, we should do a whole podcast on that one day. 237 00:10:46,864 --> 00:10:48,334 Just so how to have fun in business. 238 00:10:48,664 --> 00:10:48,814 Yes. 239 00:10:48,814 --> 00:10:51,454 Because I feel like that's a bit of a lost art in itself. 240 00:10:51,454 --> 00:10:53,284 You know, everyone's got a little bit too serious. 241 00:10:54,439 --> 00:10:55,309 And you're just like, no, it's fine. 242 00:10:55,309 --> 00:10:56,179 It's okay. 243 00:10:56,179 --> 00:10:56,809 It's okay to have a bit of fun. 244 00:10:56,989 --> 00:10:57,949 Uh, exactly. 245 00:10:58,759 --> 00:10:59,899 You don't have to be Google. 246 00:10:59,989 --> 00:11:01,339 Uh, that was the other thing that I noticed. 247 00:11:01,339 --> 00:11:03,079 Everybody was like, well, you know, Google's fine. 248 00:11:03,084 --> 00:11:05,089 They can do the fun things cause they're a big enough company. 249 00:11:05,089 --> 00:11:06,389 You're like, no, no, no, no, no. 250 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:07,459 You can do it cause you're small. 251 00:11:07,939 --> 00:11:08,709 I exactly. 252 00:11:08,949 --> 00:11:11,720 I, I don't think a lot of the businesses are only urging the fun things. 253 00:11:12,369 --> 00:11:15,709 That, that's the opportunity we have as a small business owners to 254 00:11:15,709 --> 00:11:18,199 really connect with your customers and have some fun doing it. 255 00:11:18,859 --> 00:11:22,759 So what have you seen then, um, as we're talking about fun? 256 00:11:22,764 --> 00:11:24,979 Cuz I, I, I could wax lyrical about this all day. 257 00:11:24,979 --> 00:11:25,459 Genuinely. 258 00:11:25,819 --> 00:11:30,950 Um, what sort of things have you seen, or what sort of things do you perceive to 259 00:11:31,069 --> 00:11:32,629 be fun then when it comes to customers? 260 00:11:32,629 --> 00:11:34,069 How, how can we do that? 261 00:11:34,864 --> 00:11:37,684 First of all, it's really, really going back to fundamentals, 262 00:11:37,684 --> 00:11:38,974 getting to know your customers. 263 00:11:39,004 --> 00:11:43,744 Um, the one thing I think people still don't do enough, and I have 264 00:11:43,744 --> 00:11:47,614 seen this create real shifts in people's, not just businesses, but 265 00:11:47,614 --> 00:11:49,294 mindset and how they start showing up. 266 00:11:49,564 --> 00:11:52,884 But really going back to understanding who your customer really, really is. 267 00:11:53,664 --> 00:11:56,514 Uh, You know, what are the core needs, wants and desires? 268 00:11:56,514 --> 00:11:57,444 Why are they buying? 269 00:11:57,564 --> 00:12:00,324 And then looking at, okay, how do I deliver that and what's 270 00:12:00,324 --> 00:12:02,094 the value I add I bring to it? 271 00:12:02,154 --> 00:12:06,024 Um, but just even having those customer conversations, it's those 272 00:12:06,024 --> 00:12:08,874 cus deep dive customer interviews is when I start people seeing having a 273 00:12:08,874 --> 00:12:10,014 little more fun in their business. 274 00:12:10,019 --> 00:12:12,444 They're like, oh, okay, this is who I'm doing it for. 275 00:12:12,444 --> 00:12:13,104 This is what they really want. 276 00:12:13,434 --> 00:12:14,424 It's not what I thought. 277 00:12:14,814 --> 00:12:17,334 Uh, and it just changes how you completely show up. 278 00:12:18,214 --> 00:12:18,454 Yeah. 279 00:12:18,454 --> 00:12:18,904 No, fair. 280 00:12:18,964 --> 00:12:19,564 Uh, very good. 281 00:12:19,594 --> 00:12:20,164 Very true. 282 00:12:20,164 --> 00:12:26,224 But, um, so the, the getting to know your customers aspect of it, um, you mentioned 283 00:12:26,224 --> 00:12:28,054 they're doing, uh, customer interviews. 284 00:12:28,054 --> 00:12:28,894 Is that what you do? 285 00:12:28,894 --> 00:12:32,164 Is that the, is that the route I'm gonna go down to get to know my customer? 286 00:12:32,674 --> 00:12:33,484 Yes, absolutely. 287 00:12:33,484 --> 00:12:35,194 Of course there are things you can do around it. 288 00:12:35,344 --> 00:12:38,044 You know, there's, there's, there's your analytics that will show you information. 289 00:12:38,194 --> 00:12:40,654 It's always great to dive into all the testimonials, reviews, 290 00:12:40,834 --> 00:12:44,734 any content, any conversations you've had, and even surveys. 291 00:12:44,794 --> 00:12:48,454 But they don't allow you to dive deeper into motivations and the why and really 292 00:12:48,459 --> 00:12:49,925 understand deeper what's going on. 293 00:12:50,239 --> 00:12:50,929 With your customer. 294 00:12:51,169 --> 00:12:54,109 So customer interviews I always say is non-negotiable. 295 00:12:54,109 --> 00:12:56,179 Whether you choose to do it as a group with a focus group or 296 00:12:56,179 --> 00:13:00,049 individual one-on-one, you have to be speaking to your customers 297 00:13:00,054 --> 00:13:01,309 and really getting to know them. 298 00:13:01,309 --> 00:13:02,329 Yes, absolutely. 299 00:13:03,079 --> 00:13:03,949 That's really intriguing. 300 00:13:04,459 --> 00:13:09,379 So let's say, um, Because I, Monica, I know a thousand businesses that have 301 00:13:09,379 --> 00:13:10,879 never interviewed their customers, right? 302 00:13:10,879 --> 00:13:11,059 Yes. 303 00:13:11,119 --> 00:13:12,929 Uh, and most people I know many more. 304 00:13:13,359 --> 00:13:13,649 Yeah. 305 00:13:14,629 --> 00:13:16,699 How do you, how do you get started with that? 306 00:13:16,759 --> 00:13:20,329 Is that just a case of, I'm just gonna go down my customer, I'm gonna 307 00:13:20,329 --> 00:13:23,149 pick this, this customers bought three times, so I'm gonna call up. 308 00:13:23,154 --> 00:13:23,329 Go. 309 00:13:23,329 --> 00:13:23,809 Hello, Susan. 310 00:13:24,619 --> 00:13:27,529 Uh, it's Matt here from, uh, you know, Acme. 311 00:13:27,829 --> 00:13:28,279 Cool. 312 00:13:28,609 --> 00:13:30,829 Um, I see you've purchased from us three times. 313 00:13:30,829 --> 00:13:31,999 Can I ask you some questions about it? 314 00:13:31,999 --> 00:13:35,029 Is that, is it as simple as that or is there a bit more to it? 315 00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:38,779 Well, it could be as simple as that, but I always say to first reach out to 316 00:13:38,784 --> 00:13:40,249 your customers, you know, email them. 317 00:13:40,609 --> 00:13:43,249 Um, you and I always say it's really great. 318 00:13:43,249 --> 00:13:45,079 You start with those customers who are the most loyal. 319 00:13:45,084 --> 00:13:46,099 Cause those are the easiest. 320 00:13:46,114 --> 00:13:49,414 Obviously you'll have the customers who purchased from you really often. 321 00:13:49,624 --> 00:13:52,654 They're uh, the ones who maybe only purchased once and stopped. 322 00:13:52,654 --> 00:13:55,414 And then there are people who you've seen have been following you, opening 323 00:13:55,414 --> 00:13:56,614 your emails, but just not buying. 324 00:13:56,614 --> 00:13:56,704 Mm-hmm. 325 00:13:56,944 --> 00:13:59,854 And it's really nice to be able to, you know, speak to different 326 00:13:59,854 --> 00:14:02,854 people from those groups, but start with the most loyal ones. 327 00:14:02,854 --> 00:14:03,904 Cause those are the easiest. 328 00:14:04,234 --> 00:14:08,284 Email them, reach out to them and just say, you know, um, I'm 329 00:14:08,284 --> 00:14:11,344 looking to, you know, serve you better and improve my business. 330 00:14:11,614 --> 00:14:14,129 Um, Would you have some time to speak to me? 331 00:14:14,399 --> 00:14:18,299 It's a, and and then you'll see that quite a few people do respond and that 332 00:14:18,299 --> 00:14:21,539 makes it so much easier to get on a call, because then it's not like a cold call 333 00:14:21,719 --> 00:14:24,659 where, you know, people are gonna think, are you trying to pitch me something? 334 00:14:24,664 --> 00:14:24,989 Mm-hmm. 335 00:14:25,074 --> 00:14:25,679 Uh, no. 336 00:14:25,679 --> 00:14:29,639 So just email them, reach out to them first, and people will tend to respond 337 00:14:30,359 --> 00:14:32,159 and then get onto a, uh, call with them. 338 00:14:32,219 --> 00:14:32,579 Yes. 339 00:14:33,139 --> 00:14:33,649 Fantastic. 340 00:14:33,889 --> 00:14:38,119 And would you, would you incentivize the customer to do that or is 341 00:14:38,119 --> 00:14:41,209 it just you don't need to, you don't, your, your experiences 342 00:14:41,209 --> 00:14:41,569 you don't need. 343 00:14:41,749 --> 00:14:45,559 My experience is that you don't need to, but I always do say, I love 344 00:14:45,559 --> 00:14:46,999 just giving somebody as a thank you. 345 00:14:46,999 --> 00:14:48,469 It's like a little gift for your time. 346 00:14:48,469 --> 00:14:49,169 Thank you for your time. 347 00:14:49,629 --> 00:14:52,159 Here's a voucher, or here's something from my store. 348 00:14:52,429 --> 00:14:55,219 Um, it it, it's just a nice gesture, right? 349 00:14:55,219 --> 00:14:55,279 Yeah. 350 00:14:55,339 --> 00:14:57,289 To give something back for somebody's time. 351 00:14:57,559 --> 00:15:00,199 You don't have to, but it just adds that one level of 352 00:15:00,199 --> 00:15:01,789 appreciation for somebody's time. 353 00:15:02,794 --> 00:15:06,544 So let's role play a little bit, Monica. 354 00:15:06,604 --> 00:15:12,424 And now, um, so, uh, I'm, I've emailed you, Monica, you've purchased 355 00:15:12,424 --> 00:15:13,474 from us three or four times. 356 00:15:13,479 --> 00:15:14,734 We'd love to have a conversation. 357 00:15:15,124 --> 00:15:17,089 Um, Are you up for that? 358 00:15:17,539 --> 00:15:21,559 I guess they have used something, I guess, like zcal or something like that 359 00:15:21,559 --> 00:15:24,469 to schedule a time that works for them. 360 00:15:24,679 --> 00:15:25,009 Right. 361 00:15:25,009 --> 00:15:27,349 And are you, are you, am I, am I doing this call on Zoom? 362 00:15:28,279 --> 00:15:29,299 Uh, whatever works? 363 00:15:29,389 --> 00:15:31,729 Zoom is great because you can record the conversation. 364 00:15:32,069 --> 00:15:34,209 Um, it's nice to have it face-to-face, right? 365 00:15:34,269 --> 00:15:35,929 It, it always makes a difference. 366 00:15:36,284 --> 00:15:37,274 Zoom is great. 367 00:15:37,334 --> 00:15:40,604 Uh, you can record it to listen back to it and always say, and, and if 368 00:15:40,604 --> 00:15:43,724 somebody's really reluctant, you know, then of obviously a phone call. 369 00:15:43,964 --> 00:15:46,814 But, uh, try and do it as much as possible on like a video call where 370 00:15:46,819 --> 00:15:49,634 you can also see the person and record it for yourself just to be 371 00:15:49,634 --> 00:15:50,954 able to take notes later as well. 372 00:15:50,954 --> 00:15:51,284 Yes. 373 00:15:51,814 --> 00:15:54,874 Yeah, that's an important point, I guess, taking the notes later. 374 00:15:55,354 --> 00:15:58,984 As much as you hate listening to your own voice, uh, watching back 375 00:15:58,984 --> 00:16:01,834 the video, I was actually gonna help you make a better call next time. 376 00:16:01,834 --> 00:16:02,374 I would've thought. 377 00:16:02,374 --> 00:16:02,584 Right? 378 00:16:03,004 --> 00:16:03,874 It makes a better call. 379 00:16:03,874 --> 00:16:07,504 It will help you pick out actual little quotes and, you know, snippable words 380 00:16:07,509 --> 00:16:10,504 that you can use, but it's so difficult when you're in a conversation to know 381 00:16:10,504 --> 00:16:11,764 down everything somebody's saying. 382 00:16:11,794 --> 00:16:11,974 Right? 383 00:16:11,974 --> 00:16:12,034 Yeah. 384 00:16:12,034 --> 00:16:13,114 And really pick out everything. 385 00:16:13,354 --> 00:16:16,744 So it's really good to just ha be able to listen back and make sure you haven't 386 00:16:16,744 --> 00:16:18,274 missed any of the important things. 387 00:16:19,264 --> 00:16:20,704 It's a bit like how I do podcast, Monica. 388 00:16:20,944 --> 00:16:21,514 I'm not gonna lie. 389 00:16:21,724 --> 00:16:24,724 I take down very basic notes as we go along and then we have it 390 00:16:24,724 --> 00:16:27,094 transcribed and we can pull out some really good information. 391 00:16:27,184 --> 00:16:29,344 Okay, well, I, this is a beautiful thing. 392 00:16:29,554 --> 00:16:32,404 So, um, we're on a Zoom call then chatting. 393 00:16:32,409 --> 00:16:36,004 What sort of things am I gonna want to ask you? 394 00:16:36,009 --> 00:16:40,354 Like, um, how do I, how do I know what questions to ask? 395 00:16:40,354 --> 00:16:41,884 Because I think that scares people. 396 00:16:42,439 --> 00:16:46,069 That in general, I think conversations like these scare people because 397 00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:47,929 people, I, I, I, I sense a fear. 398 00:16:47,959 --> 00:16:51,289 People have a fear of rejection that people may not wanna speak 399 00:16:51,294 --> 00:16:54,349 to them, they're afraid of any kind of criticism they may hear. 400 00:16:54,739 --> 00:16:59,209 Um, my quick reminder here would be people love helping, especially small 401 00:16:59,214 --> 00:17:01,969 business owners, and people love, again, back to that connection piece 402 00:17:01,969 --> 00:17:03,559 we talked about right in the beginning. 403 00:17:03,559 --> 00:17:04,549 People love connecting. 404 00:17:04,549 --> 00:17:07,489 They wanna be seen, heard, and understood, and they feel. 405 00:17:07,759 --> 00:17:10,459 Every customer I've worked with has come back to me and said, oh 406 00:17:10,459 --> 00:17:13,039 my God, some of those people I interviewed became my loyal customers. 407 00:17:13,039 --> 00:17:14,869 Cause they said, you actually care. 408 00:17:15,259 --> 00:17:16,729 Many businesses don't do this. 409 00:17:16,999 --> 00:17:19,609 So it is scary cuz you haven't done it before. 410 00:17:19,614 --> 00:17:21,259 The more often you do it, the easier it gets. 411 00:17:21,259 --> 00:17:23,399 But just treat, remember that people do love helping people 412 00:17:23,899 --> 00:17:25,614 and they wanna be understood. 413 00:17:25,674 --> 00:17:28,524 So this is a great chance to also differentiate yourself and 414 00:17:28,524 --> 00:17:30,114 show that you care about them. 415 00:17:30,684 --> 00:17:34,014 And then in terms of the questions to ask, I have actually broken it 416 00:17:34,019 --> 00:17:36,174 down into, uh, a framework 4Ds. 417 00:17:36,774 --> 00:17:43,744 So, um, the desires over, yes, desires over demographics, and obviously we 418 00:17:44,064 --> 00:17:46,044 do start a bit with the demographic. 419 00:17:46,164 --> 00:17:48,294 Just get some of the factual information about them. 420 00:17:48,294 --> 00:17:51,679 It just, Creates a good picture and a perspective, and if you do 421 00:17:51,684 --> 00:17:54,499 ever do advertising and targeting, it will give you some great 422 00:17:54,499 --> 00:17:55,699 information to have upfront. 423 00:17:55,704 --> 00:17:55,849 Sure. 424 00:17:56,059 --> 00:17:58,069 So make sure you get those demographics down. 425 00:17:58,579 --> 00:18:01,009 Then for me, one of the most key elements is desires. 426 00:18:01,469 --> 00:18:01,959 Which I called. 427 00:18:02,329 --> 00:18:03,589 So who's this person? 428 00:18:03,589 --> 00:18:04,789 What's going on in their life? 429 00:18:04,819 --> 00:18:06,409 What are their struggles? 430 00:18:06,409 --> 00:18:07,369 What makes them happy? 431 00:18:07,374 --> 00:18:09,259 What can help them get more of those moments? 432 00:18:09,439 --> 00:18:10,969 What do they really want in life? 433 00:18:11,404 --> 00:18:12,889 and what's happening? 434 00:18:13,099 --> 00:18:16,669 So a lot of times people forget this box because they wanna straight 435 00:18:16,669 --> 00:18:18,260 go into their products, but just. 436 00:18:18,844 --> 00:18:21,244 Like I said, people buy because of how your product makes 'em feel. 437 00:18:21,394 --> 00:18:25,174 You're not just selling a product, it's a feeling and experience and it's about how 438 00:18:25,174 --> 00:18:26,704 that product fits into their lifestyle. 439 00:18:26,914 --> 00:18:29,614 So really try to understand that person beyond just the 440 00:18:29,614 --> 00:18:30,694 product that you're selling. 441 00:18:30,694 --> 00:18:30,695 Mm-hmm. 442 00:18:30,964 --> 00:18:33,814 And that's why this box is super important to understand. 443 00:18:34,564 --> 00:18:36,324 And then we go into the third one, which I call do. 444 00:18:36,514 --> 00:18:38,374 This is about behaviors. 445 00:18:38,404 --> 00:18:42,844 How do they behave within their, cate, your category of products? 446 00:18:42,849 --> 00:18:44,584 What are, you know, what are they doing? 447 00:18:44,764 --> 00:18:46,684 Where do they find you or competitors? 448 00:18:47,539 --> 00:18:48,829 How do they get to you? 449 00:18:49,069 --> 00:18:50,719 What's, you know, why are they buying? 450 00:18:50,719 --> 00:18:53,359 What's stopping them from buying the triggers and barriers to buy? 451 00:18:53,689 --> 00:18:56,719 Uh, how does that whole experience of shopping with you make them feel? 452 00:18:56,959 --> 00:18:57,049 Mm-hmm. 453 00:18:57,469 --> 00:18:58,999 And then the final one is delight. 454 00:18:59,179 --> 00:19:02,179 You know, how that entire shop, what really makes them happy? 455 00:19:02,509 --> 00:19:03,769 What would they tell others about you? 456 00:19:03,769 --> 00:19:05,989 What would they tell others about competitors are buying from? 457 00:19:06,564 --> 00:19:08,634 You know, from the whole shopping experience to actually getting 458 00:19:08,634 --> 00:19:11,544 the products at home, what do they really love about it? 459 00:19:11,544 --> 00:19:12,744 What makes them really happy? 460 00:19:12,744 --> 00:19:14,634 And what could you be doing there for doing better? 461 00:19:14,874 --> 00:19:18,684 So it's really about understanding that person, demo demographics and desires, and 462 00:19:18,684 --> 00:19:23,424 then understanding the whole more specific to your product and category and how 463 00:19:23,424 --> 00:19:24,505 they purchase it, what makes them happy. 464 00:19:25,024 --> 00:19:26,574 So those are the four Ds. 465 00:19:27,354 --> 00:19:28,134 Fantastic. 466 00:19:28,134 --> 00:19:31,434 So I've got demographics, desires, do, and delight. 467 00:19:31,439 --> 00:19:32,634 Yes, I got that down right? 468 00:19:32,929 --> 00:19:34,879 Absolutely score me. 469 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:35,749 Okay. 470 00:19:35,749 --> 00:19:39,139 So, um, so how long do these conversations take? 471 00:19:40,429 --> 00:19:45,979 They do take, I would say budget easily anywhere between 45 minutes to an hour. 472 00:19:46,279 --> 00:19:46,849 Oh, wow. 473 00:19:47,039 --> 00:19:48,779 If you want do them Well, yeah. 474 00:19:48,779 --> 00:19:49,759 If you wanna do them well. 475 00:19:49,759 --> 00:19:50,979 So 45 minutes to an hour. 476 00:19:52,189 --> 00:19:54,619 Ironically, the same length time as my podcast. 477 00:19:54,619 --> 00:19:55,309 I'm just, yes. 478 00:19:55,459 --> 00:19:58,579 Uh, it's, it's almost like it's written in the stars. 479 00:19:58,909 --> 00:20:02,689 Um, so, so I'm doing, I'm, I'm sort of chatting away. 480 00:20:02,779 --> 00:20:06,589 45 Am I letting the client know it's gonna take that long in the original email? 481 00:20:07,409 --> 00:20:11,269 Yes, obviously I, I usually say around 40 minutes to 45 minutes. 482 00:20:11,269 --> 00:20:14,479 And then if it takes another 10, 50 minutes longer, people don't mind. 483 00:20:14,484 --> 00:20:14,669 Um, 484 00:20:14,669 --> 00:20:16,449 yeah, people give you a little bit of grace, don't they? 485 00:20:16,629 --> 00:20:19,009 If you tell it's an hour, they'll freak out. 486 00:20:19,399 --> 00:20:20,149 They may freak out. 487 00:20:20,154 --> 00:20:22,969 So I always say, say around 40 minutes, 45 minutes max. 488 00:20:23,029 --> 00:20:25,789 You know, and then if it goes over, and usually people end up enjoying 489 00:20:25,794 --> 00:20:28,939 the conversation once they're on, so they don't mind and they like 490 00:20:28,939 --> 00:20:30,379 giving so much information away. 491 00:20:30,769 --> 00:20:33,949 Um, so te tends, it tends to go over naturally, so you 492 00:20:33,949 --> 00:20:34,969 don't have to worry so much. 493 00:20:35,734 --> 00:20:35,944 Yeah. 494 00:20:35,944 --> 00:20:36,514 Very good. 495 00:20:36,754 --> 00:20:38,344 And how do you prevent then? 496 00:20:38,764 --> 00:20:40,984 Uh, I kind of know how you're gonna answer this question, Monica. 497 00:20:41,434 --> 00:20:43,444 Uh, but I, I feel like I need to ask it. 498 00:20:43,774 --> 00:20:49,114 How do you prevent this scenario where I just happen to call that 499 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:53,024 one particular person who is the outlier and they are completely 500 00:20:53,024 --> 00:20:56,339 different to everybody else, right? 501 00:20:56,369 --> 00:20:56,519 Yeah. 502 00:20:56,849 --> 00:21:01,169 Um, and it just is just you, you know, random luck that I've picked this one 503 00:21:01,169 --> 00:21:03,959 person, or maybe these two or three people who are, who are over there, 504 00:21:03,959 --> 00:21:05,909 but 97% of people are over here. 505 00:21:05,914 --> 00:21:06,099 Yeah. 506 00:21:06,269 --> 00:21:08,969 How do I, how do I know that I've done that I guess? 507 00:21:09,869 --> 00:21:11,969 So first of all, you're not just doing one interview, right? 508 00:21:11,974 --> 00:21:12,739 You're gonna be doing multiple. 509 00:21:13,079 --> 00:21:17,849 So you'll start seeing a trend on the ones that are sticking out a little bit. 510 00:21:18,124 --> 00:21:20,434 I mean that's, it's as simple as that. 511 00:21:20,434 --> 00:21:22,714 And I think you need to keep doing these over longer period 512 00:21:22,714 --> 00:21:24,094 of time as well for yourself. 513 00:21:24,094 --> 00:21:24,095 Mm-hmm. 514 00:21:24,484 --> 00:21:26,434 Don't just make this a one time thing and I'm done. 515 00:21:26,584 --> 00:21:29,944 Cuz your business evolves, everything evolves, markets evolve, customers evolve. 516 00:21:30,154 --> 00:21:31,024 So keep doing that. 517 00:21:31,354 --> 00:21:35,704 And another way to do it is also to then use surveys. 518 00:21:35,704 --> 00:21:38,064 You know, say you've done these deep dive interviews mm-hmm. 519 00:21:38,524 --> 00:21:40,894 And you've got a basic understanding of who your customers 520 00:21:40,894 --> 00:21:41,854 are and you've really got. 521 00:21:43,069 --> 00:21:44,299 This gives you the motivations. 522 00:21:44,299 --> 00:21:47,839 It's about quality, really diving deep, but then you can use surveys to test it 523 00:21:47,839 --> 00:21:50,179 out over a large number of people, right? 524 00:21:50,179 --> 00:21:51,139 If this really holds. 525 00:21:51,379 --> 00:21:54,619 So then you can use what you've learned to then set up a survey and send out 526 00:21:54,619 --> 00:21:58,279 to a larger audience or email list, and then see what the consistencies 527 00:21:58,279 --> 00:21:59,419 in the answers that are coming out. 528 00:21:59,579 --> 00:22:02,419 So, uh, the, these are multiple ways of doing it, but first of 529 00:22:02,419 --> 00:22:04,969 all I would say is make sure you're doing multiple interviews. 530 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,509 You're doing 6, 7, 8 of them, you will start seeing that there's one 531 00:22:08,509 --> 00:22:11,239 or two people who are answering completely differently than others. 532 00:22:11,329 --> 00:22:11,389 Yeah. 533 00:22:11,689 --> 00:22:13,999 Um, and that will already give you that feeling. 534 00:22:14,029 --> 00:22:14,329 Okay. 535 00:22:14,329 --> 00:22:17,179 There is, there is some differences, but you'll also start seeing some 536 00:22:17,184 --> 00:22:18,439 of the commonalities coming out. 537 00:22:18,439 --> 00:22:20,989 And I think it's more important to say, okay, what's really 538 00:22:20,989 --> 00:22:23,599 the common thread that's coming across all of these interviews? 539 00:22:23,599 --> 00:22:23,659 Yeah. 540 00:22:23,959 --> 00:22:25,549 And often those will go beyond the demo. 541 00:22:25,579 --> 00:22:28,489 The demographics may be the outliers, but maybe what they really want and 542 00:22:28,489 --> 00:22:30,169 what they're looking for is, is common. 543 00:22:30,649 --> 00:22:32,629 Um, and that's what you wanna really focus on. 544 00:22:33,184 --> 00:22:39,184 Okay, so I guess my, I, how many of these am I doing? 545 00:22:39,334 --> 00:22:40,714 Am I in my head? 546 00:22:40,719 --> 00:22:41,884 I guess there's two ways to do this. 547 00:22:41,884 --> 00:22:44,584 I'm, I'm like, well, I'm just gonna do 20 and see what happens. 548 00:22:44,644 --> 00:22:50,164 Or I can talk to, I mean, you know, in my ecom businesses we have, I 549 00:22:50,164 --> 00:22:51,215 have the privilege of having a team. 550 00:22:51,244 --> 00:22:54,454 I don't know whether the team should do this actually, or the customer service 551 00:22:54,454 --> 00:22:56,074 team or whether I need to do this. 552 00:22:56,344 --> 00:23:00,634 Um, do I say to each one of the customer service team, 553 00:23:00,874 --> 00:23:02,224 you need to do one call a day. 554 00:23:03,004 --> 00:23:07,744 Um, with one customer, and it's just, it is what it is, you know, and we, 555 00:23:07,744 --> 00:23:12,154 and we start to do this and we, we budget time for that, so over, and 556 00:23:12,154 --> 00:23:15,364 we just do it con continually, you know, you get out, I guess we got 557 00:23:15,364 --> 00:23:16,534 three people in customer service. 558 00:23:16,534 --> 00:23:18,124 That's a thousand calls a, a year. 559 00:23:18,129 --> 00:23:18,664 I don't know. 560 00:23:19,114 --> 00:23:22,774 Um, what's the, I guess what's the frequency? 561 00:23:23,809 --> 00:23:26,479 The frequency, I think, I think that's something you can decide. 562 00:23:26,479 --> 00:23:28,759 And, and it also depends on the size of business you are, how much 563 00:23:28,759 --> 00:23:31,489 support you have, you know, whether you're, you know, a sole founder 564 00:23:31,489 --> 00:23:32,839 versus like you, you have a team. 565 00:23:33,109 --> 00:23:34,819 Uh, all of that is going to impact it. 566 00:23:34,819 --> 00:23:37,119 But I would say if you can just even do this on a monthly basis. 567 00:23:37,819 --> 00:23:41,559 So if you've never done this before, I would say try and do eight to 10, find 568 00:23:41,589 --> 00:23:44,829 eight to 10 people that you can speak to so that you can get that base done. 569 00:23:44,829 --> 00:23:44,889 Yeah. 570 00:23:45,099 --> 00:23:46,629 And have that deeper understanding. 571 00:23:46,929 --> 00:23:49,989 And then on a monthly basis, I would say even if you're just doing this on 572 00:23:49,989 --> 00:23:53,649 a monthly basis, that everybody speaks to one to two customers, uh, that 573 00:23:53,649 --> 00:23:55,449 will keep giving you that consistency. 574 00:23:55,449 --> 00:23:58,689 And every time maybe somebody buys you new customers, you say it can 575 00:23:58,689 --> 00:24:01,239 be trigger something in your system and then you can say, Hey, let me 576 00:24:01,239 --> 00:24:02,529 speak to a few of these people. 577 00:24:02,529 --> 00:24:05,229 We have some new buyers in, or there a couple of people who have been coming to. 578 00:24:05,694 --> 00:24:08,754 Back to buy more often, you know, so you can pick and choose. 579 00:24:08,754 --> 00:24:12,534 I would say even just doing it on a monthly basis is, it is really good. 580 00:24:12,534 --> 00:24:13,824 And you'll be ahead of the curve. 581 00:24:14,604 --> 00:24:15,114 Very good. 582 00:24:15,354 --> 00:24:17,484 Now, I, I'm not gonna let you get away with it. 583 00:24:17,484 --> 00:24:18,954 Oh, I'm not gonna, let me get away with it. 584 00:24:18,954 --> 00:24:21,174 But when I said, uh, who should do this? 585 00:24:21,179 --> 00:24:21,864 My team or me? 586 00:24:21,864 --> 00:24:23,744 You said both and I kind of skipped over it. 587 00:24:23,844 --> 00:24:26,304 Uh, so I'm, I know I, yeah, yeah, yeah. 588 00:24:26,724 --> 00:24:28,464 Uh, I, I just want you to know you were heard. 589 00:24:28,524 --> 00:24:30,504 Uh, and so, um, why both? 590 00:24:31,459 --> 00:24:34,489 Well, um, at the end, you're also leading the business, right? 591 00:24:34,549 --> 00:24:36,709 And I think it's everybody. 592 00:24:36,709 --> 00:24:39,799 I would encourage everybody that's involved in the business system, 593 00:24:40,249 --> 00:24:42,979 somebody from the marketing team, not, and the customer service team, 594 00:24:43,189 --> 00:24:44,599 even somebody from the product team. 595 00:24:44,689 --> 00:24:47,659 I would involve everybody if you have a bigger business 596 00:24:47,659 --> 00:24:48,350 where you have different teams. 597 00:24:48,799 --> 00:24:48,859 Hmm. 598 00:24:48,929 --> 00:24:53,029 Involve all the people because all of them need to understand the customer. 599 00:24:53,779 --> 00:24:58,159 To be able to best deliver the work they do and then pull those insights together. 600 00:24:58,164 --> 00:24:58,519 Mm-hmm. 601 00:24:58,739 --> 00:25:01,909 Um, and that makes a difference in everybody's work, I think that you do. 602 00:25:01,909 --> 00:25:04,249 So I wouldn't only leave it to the customer service in 603 00:25:04,249 --> 00:25:05,539 the customer facing teams. 604 00:25:05,559 --> 00:25:06,119 I love that. 605 00:25:06,529 --> 00:25:08,779 I love that the guys in the warehouse need to do the calls 606 00:25:08,779 --> 00:25:10,549 as well, freaks them right out. 607 00:25:10,549 --> 00:25:14,029 That whole concept, talking to people, uh, they, that's why they're in the warehouse. 608 00:25:14,029 --> 00:25:15,799 They're like, I like headphones and not talking to people. 609 00:25:16,219 --> 00:25:19,549 Um, so here's the thing, right. 610 00:25:20,404 --> 00:25:23,194 Uh, and I'm just gonna join two dots together because, you know, 611 00:25:23,194 --> 00:25:24,184 this is how my brain works. 612 00:25:26,134 --> 00:25:32,924 I've, I'm a big proponent, I'm a big fan of podcasting as a marketing strategy. 613 00:25:33,934 --> 00:25:36,589 And here's what I'm thinking when it comes to e-commerce business. 614 00:25:36,589 --> 00:25:40,549 I've seen a lots of strategies when it comes to podcasting, uh, certainly for 615 00:25:40,579 --> 00:25:43,669 e-commerce businesses, and one of the things that I think you need to do on 616 00:25:43,674 --> 00:25:47,239 your podcast is champion your customers. 617 00:25:47,329 --> 00:25:47,689 Right? 618 00:25:48,049 --> 00:25:50,779 So what I'm, what I'm, what I, I'm joining two dots. 619 00:25:50,779 --> 00:25:55,009 I'm going like, I could do this conversation and take part 620 00:25:55,009 --> 00:25:56,239 of, just ask these customers. 621 00:25:56,944 --> 00:25:58,354 You know, a question, say, right? 622 00:25:58,384 --> 00:26:00,544 If you don't mind, we're gonna feature this on the podcast. 623 00:26:00,544 --> 00:26:03,304 So then they get featured on the podcast only for maybe like five or 10 minutes. 624 00:26:03,304 --> 00:26:05,464 Doesn't have to, you know, it's not a whole thing like this. 625 00:26:05,464 --> 00:26:06,154 45 minutes. 626 00:26:06,994 --> 00:26:10,774 Um, And that, that actually works really, really well. 627 00:26:10,924 --> 00:26:16,234 Uh, and you are, you are in effect taking, uh, some research, which is super helpful. 628 00:26:16,234 --> 00:26:19,774 Anyway, uh, you are mixing that with your marketing, which is yes. 629 00:26:19,924 --> 00:26:23,014 Also super helpful, and you're promoting your customer to a 630 00:26:23,019 --> 00:26:24,184 wider audience, which is yep. 631 00:26:25,149 --> 00:26:27,039 I'm, I'm winning on every kind of level here. 632 00:26:27,279 --> 00:26:27,489 Yes. 633 00:26:27,489 --> 00:26:29,739 So, um, I just wanted to join those two dots together. 634 00:26:29,919 --> 00:26:30,129 Thank you. 635 00:26:30,909 --> 00:26:31,689 Absolutely. 636 00:26:31,689 --> 00:26:32,409 Yes. 637 00:26:32,469 --> 00:26:36,609 There's so many ways you can use this, uh, as long as I will emphasize, 638 00:26:36,614 --> 00:26:38,019 get permission from your customers. 639 00:26:38,319 --> 00:26:38,949 Absolutely. 640 00:26:39,519 --> 00:26:41,409 And confidentiality is really important. 641 00:26:41,569 --> 00:26:44,709 Um, because all, obviously also remember that if you do. 642 00:26:45,414 --> 00:26:48,624 Um, say that you're gonna share this somewhere. 643 00:26:48,684 --> 00:26:51,234 They, some people maybe hold back a little more. 644 00:26:51,234 --> 00:26:55,164 So just keep that in mind about what part you wanna share, whatnot, and that you're 645 00:26:55,164 --> 00:26:57,084 very open to your customers about that. 646 00:26:57,504 --> 00:26:58,614 Yeah, no, absolutely. 647 00:26:59,214 --> 00:26:59,904 All top tips. 648 00:27:00,324 --> 00:27:00,654 Okay. 649 00:27:00,654 --> 00:27:07,494 So, um, obviously the, the customer interview is, is a big deal, right? 650 00:27:07,494 --> 00:27:08,694 And I'm, I'm starting to do this. 651 00:27:08,694 --> 00:27:10,224 I'm starting to collect the data. 652 00:27:10,314 --> 00:27:14,854 I'm starting to see some patterns, um, which should hopefully impact 653 00:27:14,854 --> 00:27:16,924 my, my business in some way. 654 00:27:16,924 --> 00:27:19,084 I say hopefully because it's not a given, right? 655 00:27:20,314 --> 00:27:23,914 No, I, the given is, it's not just that you're going to get that informa obs 656 00:27:23,944 --> 00:27:27,004 uh, the observations and the insights from it, but it's about how you're 657 00:27:27,004 --> 00:27:30,574 gonna translate that into your business and consistently, I think what people 658 00:27:30,574 --> 00:27:33,964 forget is that, you know, just doing these interviews is not like the magic 659 00:27:34,424 --> 00:27:35,084 tool right? 660 00:27:35,084 --> 00:27:38,474 It, it's going to give you information that you then need to bring into your 661 00:27:38,474 --> 00:27:42,374 business and consistently implement just like you do everything else into your 662 00:27:42,374 --> 00:27:46,004 messaging, into your content, into the ads you're running, into the products, 663 00:27:46,004 --> 00:27:49,964 you're deciding to maybe launch new products, uh, into your customer service. 664 00:27:50,144 --> 00:27:53,354 So it's about consistently implementing that again into it for 665 00:27:53,354 --> 00:27:54,824 a longer period of time as well. 666 00:27:54,974 --> 00:27:57,554 And it doesn't mean that the whole testing and tweaking that. 667 00:27:57,854 --> 00:27:59,714 You can eliminate that, you still need to do that. 668 00:28:00,134 --> 00:28:02,714 Uh, it's just that you'll be able to do more educated testing. 669 00:28:02,719 --> 00:28:03,074 Mm-hmm. 670 00:28:03,434 --> 00:28:05,354 Um, with the information that you've learned. 671 00:28:06,464 --> 00:28:12,284 So is this then how I got, I mean, coming back to the first mammoth 672 00:28:12,284 --> 00:28:17,924 question that I opened up with, um, is this, is this how we, we build then 673 00:28:17,924 --> 00:28:21,764 that sort of long term loyalty that, to build that sustainable business? 674 00:28:22,304 --> 00:28:23,264 Yes, absolutely. 675 00:28:23,264 --> 00:28:24,074 I think it. 676 00:28:24,679 --> 00:28:27,049 It's all about building customer relationships. 677 00:28:27,049 --> 00:28:29,749 So if you don't know who you're speaking to, how can you build that 678 00:28:29,749 --> 00:28:30,949 relationship for the long term? 679 00:28:31,129 --> 00:28:34,729 So you get to know them, but then make sure that you're consistently translating 680 00:28:34,734 --> 00:28:37,849 that into all the aspects of your business, every touchpoint that your 681 00:28:37,849 --> 00:28:41,699 customer is interacting with you, and for a longer period of time, of course. 682 00:28:42,349 --> 00:28:46,879 And making sure that, and then I would also really challenge is the 683 00:28:46,879 --> 00:28:49,189 part we tend to focus on the most is. 684 00:28:49,969 --> 00:28:54,559 Getting new customers in, but with what you learn, with what you learn, 685 00:28:54,559 --> 00:28:58,279 also look at the post-purchase process because um, I feel like a lot 686 00:28:58,284 --> 00:28:59,629 of people still ignore that a lot. 687 00:28:59,629 --> 00:29:01,579 What happens to a customer once they've bought from you? 688 00:29:01,819 --> 00:29:03,139 How do you interact with them then? 689 00:29:03,139 --> 00:29:06,619 I think that's where you can really use everything you learn to really 690 00:29:06,619 --> 00:29:08,000 build that loyalty for the longer term. 691 00:29:08,005 --> 00:29:08,229 Mm-hmm. 692 00:29:08,939 --> 00:29:11,179 Yeah, I couldn't agree more to be honest with you. 693 00:29:11,299 --> 00:29:13,699 Um, uh, so. 694 00:29:15,679 --> 00:29:18,109 So I'm, I'm doing my customer service interviews. 695 00:29:18,109 --> 00:29:20,809 I'm, I'm, I'm getting this wonderful information. 696 00:29:20,809 --> 00:29:26,209 I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm using that data to change my marketing. 697 00:29:26,209 --> 00:29:29,599 I'm using that data to inform my post purchase. 698 00:29:30,259 --> 00:29:36,529 Um, one of the things that I've seen Monica over the years, yeah. 699 00:29:37,009 --> 00:29:39,829 Is the rise of what I'm gonna call customer personas. 700 00:29:40,009 --> 00:29:40,369 Okay. 701 00:29:40,489 --> 00:29:40,549 Yeah. 702 00:29:40,879 --> 00:29:46,429 So I walk into, I remember walking into, into one sales director's office, and 703 00:29:46,429 --> 00:29:49,129 he had like five pictures upon the wall. 704 00:29:49,129 --> 00:29:51,859 You know, that, uh, he didn't know who these people were, but they, 705 00:29:51,859 --> 00:29:53,449 they had names underneath them. 706 00:29:53,454 --> 00:29:57,559 Susan, Simon, and Susan is this, this, this, this, and this, and Simon this, and 707 00:29:57,559 --> 00:29:59,449 this was all data that they'd collated. 708 00:29:59,889 --> 00:30:02,019 Um, from their user. 709 00:30:02,019 --> 00:30:04,539 Some of it was demographics, some of it was their desires. 710 00:30:04,539 --> 00:30:05,709 Some of it was what they do. 711 00:30:05,709 --> 00:30:08,979 Some of it was what delights them, remembering your four Ds, right? 712 00:30:09,039 --> 00:30:09,099 Yeah. 713 00:30:09,099 --> 00:30:17,289 So, um, are you a fan of the customer persona idea or is that, am I in danger of 714 00:30:17,289 --> 00:30:21,399 stereotyping too much and I'm forgetting about the individuality of the person? 715 00:30:21,399 --> 00:30:23,349 I'm, I'm kind of curious as to where you stand on that. 716 00:30:23,704 --> 00:30:26,464 So there are two, a couple of things I wanna say about that. 717 00:30:26,464 --> 00:30:31,324 So customer persona, if it's based on one real customer interviews, right? 718 00:30:31,354 --> 00:30:31,684 Great. 719 00:30:31,689 --> 00:30:34,234 But I see most people building those customer personas maybe 720 00:30:34,234 --> 00:30:36,304 out of just analytical data. 721 00:30:36,334 --> 00:30:39,454 Never have really spoken to anybody or I call that you know, it, it. 722 00:30:39,769 --> 00:30:40,999 I always say real over ideal. 723 00:30:40,999 --> 00:30:42,679 Cause ideal is something from imagination. 724 00:30:42,684 --> 00:30:44,539 People call it that ideal customer persona. 725 00:30:44,869 --> 00:30:48,679 So as long one base off these actual customer conversations and real 726 00:30:48,679 --> 00:30:50,929 understanding, uh, that's important. 727 00:30:51,199 --> 00:30:54,349 And to be honest, I think we go into so much details in some 728 00:30:54,349 --> 00:30:55,489 of those customer personas. 729 00:30:55,699 --> 00:30:57,969 What are people eating, drinking, and what are they reading today? 730 00:30:58,469 --> 00:31:01,549 Yes, that's maybe great to start a conversation, but it's not what's 731 00:31:01,549 --> 00:31:02,839 gonna bring them to your store. 732 00:31:03,199 --> 00:31:07,879 Uh, I think sometimes we go just down to too much detail that's not even needed. 733 00:31:07,879 --> 00:31:07,969 Mm-hmm. 734 00:31:09,139 --> 00:31:10,129 A little too far. 735 00:31:10,129 --> 00:31:12,559 And if you have the time and you wanna do it, great. 736 00:31:13,159 --> 00:31:14,899 But I don't think required. 737 00:31:15,289 --> 00:31:15,679 Right? 738 00:31:15,679 --> 00:31:16,609 It's not required. 739 00:31:16,609 --> 00:31:20,179 I think sticking to those four Ds, really understanding your customer to that level. 740 00:31:20,419 --> 00:31:22,729 What's going on in the life, how your products fit into it, the 741 00:31:22,729 --> 00:31:24,919 trigger barriers, you know, in, in the whole purchase process. 742 00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:28,849 Um, that, that's the most important I've seen. 743 00:31:28,849 --> 00:31:32,779 And we don't need to go down to really that kind of a level. 744 00:31:33,169 --> 00:31:35,869 What is everybody eating, drinking, and watching on Netflix today. 745 00:31:37,099 --> 00:31:37,309 Yeah. 746 00:31:37,309 --> 00:31:38,299 Too much detail. 747 00:31:38,854 --> 00:31:39,184 Yeah. 748 00:31:40,174 --> 00:31:43,384 So alongside too much detail, what are some of the other problems 749 00:31:43,384 --> 00:31:47,044 I need to be aware of or avoid when I'm developing this out? 750 00:31:48,214 --> 00:31:53,254 Well, again, uh, one your own thoughts, assumptions. 751 00:31:53,524 --> 00:31:57,084 A lot of people like building that in, um, understanding that when we are, 752 00:31:57,934 --> 00:32:00,754 uh, looking into customers, we stay. 753 00:32:00,934 --> 00:32:02,434 So you have your customer segment, right? 754 00:32:02,524 --> 00:32:02,674 The. 755 00:32:03,004 --> 00:32:06,214 People with the common traits within that you have that real person 756 00:32:06,214 --> 00:32:07,384 that you're actually speaking to. 757 00:32:07,924 --> 00:32:10,774 And I think a lot of people stop at that level and which what I keep saying 758 00:32:10,774 --> 00:32:13,324 is you wanna get to that core desires. 759 00:32:13,354 --> 00:32:16,114 What is their needs wants and desires that they want. 760 00:32:16,414 --> 00:32:19,294 And it's sometimes it's not, it's not the solution that you're offering yet, 761 00:32:19,294 --> 00:32:22,924 but it's really what they're, what they want out of life and what could that be? 762 00:32:22,924 --> 00:32:25,924 Stopping and making sure that you go down to that kind of a level. 763 00:32:25,929 --> 00:32:26,054 Mm-hmm. 764 00:32:26,164 --> 00:32:26,734 Really the need. 765 00:32:26,759 --> 00:32:29,819 And desires, and that's the biggest element I feel missing 766 00:32:29,819 --> 00:32:31,349 in a lot of customer personas. 767 00:32:31,589 --> 00:32:35,519 They go into more of those behavioral things and you know, like we said, whether 768 00:32:35,519 --> 00:32:38,429 they're eating, drinking or watching today, but they forget what are really 769 00:32:38,429 --> 00:32:40,079 those core desires that they want in life. 770 00:32:40,229 --> 00:32:41,279 And then seeing how to. 771 00:32:41,569 --> 00:32:43,129 You know, add your product into that. 772 00:32:43,429 --> 00:32:47,989 So really making sure it's based on real information, real conversations. 773 00:32:48,349 --> 00:32:52,639 Um, I think really going down to the desires levels, and you don't have to 774 00:32:52,639 --> 00:32:56,509 go into way too much detail and just really making sure that you're not 775 00:32:56,569 --> 00:32:58,309 building in your own assumptions into it. 776 00:33:00,499 --> 00:33:04,399 So, uh, I, I'm sorry, I'm busy making notes here. 777 00:33:04,399 --> 00:33:06,859 No, I, I, I, a lot of it makes a lot of sense to me. 778 00:33:06,864 --> 00:33:10,969 I, I, I'm smiling because, um, I think a lot of people get into e-commerce so they 779 00:33:10,969 --> 00:33:12,709 don't actually have to talk to people. 780 00:33:13,119 --> 00:33:18,799 I know a lot of retailers like, I'm going online cuz I've had enough of people. 781 00:33:19,129 --> 00:33:22,819 Uh, and so they, they just become like a faceless number. 782 00:33:23,239 --> 00:33:24,529 And here we are saying, no, no, no. 783 00:33:24,574 --> 00:33:27,904 You must actually talk to people and base this on real info. 784 00:33:28,174 --> 00:33:31,084 So then marketers come along and say, listen, for those of you who don't 785 00:33:31,084 --> 00:33:34,894 wanna actually talk to people, we can run tests so we'll, we'll split test 786 00:33:34,924 --> 00:33:36,304 is a, is a popular thing, isn't it? 787 00:33:36,304 --> 00:33:39,274 We'll split test this, this, this, and this and we'll pick whichever 788 00:33:39,274 --> 00:33:40,444 is the winning number over here. 789 00:33:40,744 --> 00:33:43,934 And that's basically testing your assumptions on nine times outta 10. 790 00:33:44,254 --> 00:33:44,524 Right? 791 00:33:44,524 --> 00:33:45,254 You're gonna go Exactly. 792 00:33:45,454 --> 00:33:47,914 I have a theory that that ad will outpoll that ad. 793 00:33:47,944 --> 00:33:49,144 Let's put it out, let's test it. 794 00:33:49,144 --> 00:33:49,145 Yep. 795 00:33:49,204 --> 00:33:50,014 Let's see what happens. 796 00:33:50,734 --> 00:33:51,184 Um, but. 797 00:33:51,554 --> 00:33:52,964 That's based on my assumption. 798 00:33:52,964 --> 00:33:53,924 So here we go. 799 00:33:53,924 --> 00:33:54,314 You okay? 800 00:33:54,434 --> 00:33:56,174 You've told me no assumptions. 801 00:33:56,174 --> 00:33:59,504 I've gotta use real data and I've got to find out the desires of 802 00:33:59,509 --> 00:34:00,494 the people that I'm talking to. 803 00:34:00,494 --> 00:34:00,584 Yes. 804 00:34:01,969 --> 00:34:02,389 Love it. 805 00:34:02,394 --> 00:34:05,269 There are a thousand people listening to the podcast now just 806 00:34:05,269 --> 00:34:06,649 breaking out into cold sweats. 807 00:34:06,649 --> 00:34:08,359 They're just kind of going, no, no, no, no. 808 00:34:08,469 --> 00:34:09,309 This is not what I want. 809 00:34:09,889 --> 00:34:12,799 So how do you, but the funny thing is, if anybody's done any kind of course 810 00:34:12,804 --> 00:34:16,669 around growth marketing, growth hacking, one of the first things they say to you 811 00:34:16,674 --> 00:34:19,339 in that is, uh, know, your customer. 812 00:34:19,344 --> 00:34:19,469 Mm-hmm. 813 00:34:19,689 --> 00:34:23,119 But, but still people are using their assumptions to do those tests. 814 00:34:23,119 --> 00:34:25,819 So there is a disconnect happening over there. 815 00:34:26,149 --> 00:34:26,449 Yeah. 816 00:34:26,449 --> 00:34:27,199 Yeah, absolutely. 817 00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:27,769 Absolutely. 818 00:34:28,099 --> 00:34:31,189 But for those that are breaking out into a cold sweat, Monica, are 819 00:34:31,189 --> 00:34:34,489 there any other tools out there that are gonna help me know my customer? 820 00:34:34,494 --> 00:34:40,099 Or is it, I mean, beyond obviously doing the interviews, um, what are the tools 821 00:34:40,099 --> 00:34:43,729 out there that I should think about maybe that I should add to my arsenal? 822 00:34:43,729 --> 00:34:46,279 Or is it just literally not as folks on the interviews first 823 00:34:46,309 --> 00:34:47,259 and then the rest will come? 824 00:34:48,214 --> 00:34:51,784 So absolutely focus on the interviews first, because otherwise, if I 825 00:34:51,784 --> 00:34:54,544 don't say that, I can see everyone trying to grab those other tools. 826 00:34:57,544 --> 00:34:58,594 It's totally what's gonna happen. 827 00:34:58,594 --> 00:34:59,014 It's totally, 828 00:34:59,094 --> 00:35:04,774 and, and avoid this, but other ways to enrich it, um, are basically, I think 829 00:35:04,774 --> 00:35:06,589 a hidden gem are your testimonials. 830 00:35:06,589 --> 00:35:10,969 Especially also negative testimonies of you or your competitors, cuz 831 00:35:10,969 --> 00:35:12,019 then you know what's missing. 832 00:35:12,499 --> 00:35:12,589 Mm-hmm. 833 00:35:12,829 --> 00:35:13,279 Uh, right. 834 00:35:13,549 --> 00:35:16,849 And people look at testimonials only from the product point of view. 835 00:35:16,854 --> 00:35:18,079 What are people saying about my product? 836 00:35:18,079 --> 00:35:21,349 But if you actually read, and it, some people write really pretty, 837 00:35:21,769 --> 00:35:25,309 uh, descriptive testimonials about, I bought this for my grandchild. 838 00:35:25,459 --> 00:35:27,799 It certainly tells you a little more about the person and what 839 00:35:28,029 --> 00:35:29,589 reason they bought something for. 840 00:35:29,829 --> 00:35:33,639 So I would really say, look into your testimonials, any conversations 841 00:35:33,639 --> 00:35:38,319 you've had, email conversations, uh, content, you know, on social media. 842 00:35:38,649 --> 00:35:40,989 Then they are obviously sending out surveys. 843 00:35:40,989 --> 00:35:42,789 There's so many tools you can use for that. 844 00:35:42,929 --> 00:35:43,349 Mm-hmm. 845 00:35:43,479 --> 00:35:44,829 Um, to test it out. 846 00:35:45,069 --> 00:35:48,279 And they are more and more, I don't wanna name the names cause I haven't 847 00:35:48,279 --> 00:35:52,959 tested them out yet, but I found out a few more AI driven tools that scrape 848 00:35:52,959 --> 00:35:54,429 things off the internet for you. 849 00:35:54,759 --> 00:35:58,674 Um, From all the different brands and go through the testimonials of all 850 00:35:58,674 --> 00:36:02,424 other brands that exist in with, within your category, um, that can really 851 00:36:02,424 --> 00:36:04,434 enrich that kind of data as well. 852 00:36:04,734 --> 00:36:07,014 But again, I think this is to enrich it. 853 00:36:07,464 --> 00:36:11,334 They still don't allow you to dive deeper into motivations, which is where actual 854 00:36:11,334 --> 00:36:12,864 conversations are absolutely essential. 855 00:36:13,954 --> 00:36:16,834 Okay, so there's no getting around it is there. 856 00:36:16,834 --> 00:36:18,154 You're gonna have to actually talk to people. 857 00:36:18,184 --> 00:36:18,784 Okay, good. 858 00:36:19,264 --> 00:36:20,644 Uh, let's just do this, deal with that one. 859 00:36:21,364 --> 00:36:25,394 So let's go back then to the desires aspect of it, Monica, 860 00:36:25,654 --> 00:36:26,794 because this really intrigues me. 861 00:36:26,799 --> 00:36:29,314 And this is something that you keep com, uh, keep mentioning. 862 00:36:29,314 --> 00:36:29,734 Yes. 863 00:36:30,499 --> 00:36:32,809 How do you find out the desires? 864 00:36:32,809 --> 00:36:35,269 What sort of questions would you ask? 865 00:36:35,269 --> 00:36:38,089 So let's, I'm just pulling something off the desk in front of me. 866 00:36:38,419 --> 00:36:40,969 Uh, if you're a regular to the show, you will know that I have on 867 00:36:40,974 --> 00:36:44,239 my desk my, uh, Lego Indiana Jones. 868 00:36:44,359 --> 00:36:44,989 There it is. 869 00:36:45,979 --> 00:36:47,779 Big fan of the old Lego Indiana Jones. 870 00:36:48,199 --> 00:36:50,959 Uh, I'm kind of curious, right? 871 00:36:50,959 --> 00:36:52,789 That's the product say that I sell. 872 00:36:53,649 --> 00:36:59,989 Um, How would I, how would I find out the desires of the person buying that product? 873 00:36:59,989 --> 00:37:01,819 What sort of questions would you be asking? 874 00:37:02,299 --> 00:37:06,629 So I think it's more about the technique of the question versus what. 875 00:37:07,009 --> 00:37:07,399 Okay. 876 00:37:07,489 --> 00:37:12,319 So, uh, what we haven't touched on, which is one big thing is, uh, I use a technical 877 00:37:12,319 --> 00:37:15,739 customer story program where you invite your customers to tell you stories. 878 00:37:15,979 --> 00:37:17,539 See what we do as humans. 879 00:37:17,539 --> 00:37:19,219 Again, we rationalize. 880 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:19,899 Things, right? 881 00:37:19,929 --> 00:37:22,329 Um, I didn't eat those fourth pair of leggings. 882 00:37:22,329 --> 00:37:25,839 I bought them anyway, and I'm explaining it away at home to my husband why I 883 00:37:25,839 --> 00:37:30,249 needed it, cuz, oh, well, you know, I didn't have this color or look at the fit. 884 00:37:30,669 --> 00:37:32,649 Whereas I, I mean honestly I just wanted it, right? 885 00:37:32,839 --> 00:37:33,079 Mm-hmm. 886 00:37:33,219 --> 00:37:36,069 I'm just trying to explain away the choice, and that's what most of us do. 887 00:37:36,069 --> 00:37:39,009 And it's not that we are lying, it's just we don't realize it's all subconscious. 888 00:37:39,519 --> 00:37:43,149 So just like you use stories in your marketing because they're memorable, 889 00:37:43,149 --> 00:37:45,249 they're unique, they evoke emotions. 890 00:37:45,429 --> 00:37:49,764 It's the same way if you ask people for stories, uh, they will 891 00:37:49,764 --> 00:37:53,064 tell you things that you may not otherwise get in normal questions. 892 00:37:53,064 --> 00:37:57,174 Normally we ask people why, why you bought something just like a child have, you 893 00:37:57,179 --> 00:37:59,874 know, if you ever say to a child after they do something they're not supposed 894 00:37:59,874 --> 00:38:01,254 to, and you say, why did you do that? 895 00:38:01,259 --> 00:38:02,304 They're just, they're stumped. 896 00:38:02,724 --> 00:38:05,924 It's the same with us as adults, except that we try to explain things away. 897 00:38:05,944 --> 00:38:06,364 Mm-hmm. 898 00:38:06,744 --> 00:38:11,434 So, but instead, if you ask them, A story versus just why they did something. 899 00:38:11,434 --> 00:38:14,764 They will tell you about something that was unique to them, memorable to them, and 900 00:38:14,764 --> 00:38:16,684 usually has an emotional element to it. 901 00:38:17,014 --> 00:38:21,484 And that's what, and then you also, you are gonna have to dive deeper into, 902 00:38:21,484 --> 00:38:24,724 you know, reading between the lines and picking out, hey, what is it there for? 903 00:38:24,724 --> 00:38:26,044 What is really important to them? 904 00:38:26,049 --> 00:38:26,104 Mm-hmm. 905 00:38:26,184 --> 00:38:31,174 So it's really about more the technique that you use versus the actual questions. 906 00:38:31,174 --> 00:38:33,604 Cause I think people ask, you know, what makes you happy in life? 907 00:38:34,804 --> 00:38:37,894 Well, great, you know, um, You know, I'll, I'll just say what, I don't 908 00:38:37,894 --> 00:38:42,844 know, dancing, for example, but versus saying, you know, um, you know, if 909 00:38:42,844 --> 00:38:46,204 you just think back to the most recent moment that where you felt really 910 00:38:46,209 --> 00:38:48,244 happy, tell me a little story about it. 911 00:38:48,504 --> 00:38:48,899 Mm-hmm. 912 00:38:49,309 --> 00:38:51,379 The answer you'll get will be completely different. 913 00:38:51,469 --> 00:38:53,539 And I can give you a really concrete example. 914 00:38:53,539 --> 00:38:56,899 I, I asked somebody this really recently and it was about the Christmas break. 915 00:38:57,439 --> 00:39:01,099 And we asked this pers, I asked this person how they spent their 916 00:39:01,099 --> 00:39:06,169 Christmas break and she said, well, uh, you know, what did you do? 917 00:39:06,529 --> 00:39:10,384 And she was like, I was out and about running activities with my kids all day. 918 00:39:10,494 --> 00:39:14,344 Um, we had to keep them busy and we were out and about doing activities, 919 00:39:14,344 --> 00:39:17,794 going hiking, going climbing, going for walks, going to the park. 920 00:39:17,884 --> 00:39:18,754 I'm like, okay, great. 921 00:39:20,194 --> 00:39:24,005 Any brand would now build their whole messaging around this, right? 922 00:39:24,010 --> 00:39:24,344 Mm-hmm. 923 00:39:24,444 --> 00:39:25,789 But, What I ask. 924 00:39:25,789 --> 00:39:26,059 Okay. 925 00:39:26,064 --> 00:39:28,549 Tell me a little moment that really stepped by you, what 926 00:39:28,619 --> 00:39:29,809 that you remember the most. 927 00:39:29,809 --> 00:39:30,859 Tell me a little story about it. 928 00:39:31,189 --> 00:39:34,219 And then she started telling me about how she was actually, the moments 929 00:39:34,219 --> 00:39:37,909 when she was snuggling with her child on the sofa, on the couch when they 930 00:39:37,909 --> 00:39:41,599 were taking those moments of pause and she kind of just lit up and she 931 00:39:41,599 --> 00:39:42,709 could see the difference as well. 932 00:39:42,714 --> 00:39:43,639 And while she answered. 933 00:39:43,639 --> 00:39:45,709 And she's like, I was like, so. 934 00:39:45,884 --> 00:39:48,194 Those were actually the moments that were the most important to 935 00:39:48,194 --> 00:39:51,674 her, and what really mattered to her was taking that little time out. 936 00:39:51,704 --> 00:39:52,004 Mm-hmm. 937 00:39:52,244 --> 00:39:56,744 And to pause with her children versus being that busy mom running around 938 00:39:56,804 --> 00:39:58,244 something she felt like she had to do. 939 00:39:58,484 --> 00:40:01,844 Now, if you are a brand, look at the difference in the messaging 940 00:40:01,849 --> 00:40:04,814 you would do and what products you would probably creating by just 941 00:40:04,814 --> 00:40:06,104 having those two different answers. 942 00:40:07,399 --> 00:40:08,299 Yeah, that's very true. 943 00:40:08,569 --> 00:40:11,539 Uh, very, very, I like that because like you say, I guess the 944 00:40:11,539 --> 00:40:13,069 brand two options, haven't you? 945 00:40:13,069 --> 00:40:15,859 These trainers will get you from A to B faster, or these sneakers will get you 946 00:40:15,864 --> 00:40:17,539 from A to B faster and more comfortable. 947 00:40:18,229 --> 00:40:21,919 Um, or this product gives you, uh, a memory making 948 00:40:21,919 --> 00:40:22,910 moment or something like that. 949 00:40:23,299 --> 00:40:25,689 And that's a very different um, They're very good. 950 00:40:25,899 --> 00:40:26,439 Very good. 951 00:40:27,069 --> 00:40:29,829 It's what Netflix did actually when they first started out. 952 00:40:29,859 --> 00:40:33,699 If you cast your, I dunno if you, the early days of Netflix, they had 953 00:40:33,699 --> 00:40:37,449 a picture of a family watching TV on a couch all snuggled together. 954 00:40:37,454 --> 00:40:39,459 I mean, they couldn't have got any closer together. 955 00:40:39,819 --> 00:40:43,129 And you look at the picture and go, There is no way that's comfortable. 956 00:40:43,129 --> 00:40:47,419 They're all gonna get hot, but they all look cozy and, and, and everybody that 957 00:40:47,419 --> 00:40:49,519 had a family was like, that's what I want. 958 00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:52,999 I want these sort of coach cozy times with my young kids and 959 00:40:52,999 --> 00:40:54,919 my wife, and we're just happy. 960 00:40:55,609 --> 00:40:58,279 Uh, and I thought it was very clever. 961 00:40:58,429 --> 00:41:01,669 Um, and tapped into a, a, you know, a success for them, 962 00:41:01,729 --> 00:41:03,379 uh, using just that imagery. 963 00:41:05,974 --> 00:41:06,364 Nike. 964 00:41:06,364 --> 00:41:08,284 Everybody knows that and their whole messaging is around 965 00:41:08,314 --> 00:41:09,724 everyone can be an athlete, right? 966 00:41:09,814 --> 00:41:09,904 Mm-hmm. 967 00:41:09,904 --> 00:41:10,654 Even you can. 968 00:41:10,924 --> 00:41:12,664 So yes, those are the comfortable shoes. 969 00:41:13,144 --> 00:41:15,244 They make you run, you know, the comfortable shoes they make 970 00:41:15,244 --> 00:41:17,134 you run faster, but guess what? 971 00:41:17,134 --> 00:41:19,714 It ev, you know, it makes you healthier if you're exercising. 972 00:41:19,714 --> 00:41:20,374 And guess what? 973 00:41:20,584 --> 00:41:21,804 Everyone can be an athlete, even you. 974 00:41:22,474 --> 00:41:22,834 Hmm. 975 00:41:23,449 --> 00:41:25,339 Uh, I dunno about me, but yeah. 976 00:41:25,339 --> 00:41:25,949 No, fair enough. 977 00:41:26,599 --> 00:41:27,049 Uh, I don't. 978 00:41:28,489 --> 00:41:28,909 Listen. 979 00:41:29,299 --> 00:41:32,989 Uh, Monica, I could, uh, uh, I'm just feel like I'm starting to 980 00:41:32,989 --> 00:41:34,339 scratch the surface and all of this. 981 00:41:34,344 --> 00:41:36,529 I feel like we could, uh, we could talk for hours. 982 00:41:37,069 --> 00:41:41,869 So let me, um, let me ask you this, my, my question that I'm, 983 00:41:42,009 --> 00:41:43,789 I'm starting to ask everybody. 984 00:41:44,179 --> 00:41:44,269 Mm-hmm. 985 00:41:44,329 --> 00:41:45,619 This thinks a really interesting question. 986 00:41:45,739 --> 00:41:46,009 Okay. 987 00:41:46,009 --> 00:41:48,199 So this is more, uh, coming back to you. 988 00:41:48,199 --> 00:41:51,139 So, as you know, the show is sponsored by e-commerce cohort, which helps. 989 00:41:51,439 --> 00:41:54,109 Uh, E-commerce businesses deliver e-commerce Wow. 990 00:41:54,469 --> 00:41:56,449 To their customers through coaching and training, right? 991 00:41:56,449 --> 00:42:01,429 So imagine you have been one of the trainers on cohort, and let's do 992 00:42:01,429 --> 00:42:02,989 this in person rather than online. 993 00:42:02,994 --> 00:42:06,949 You're in a hotel and you've delivered, delivered your keynote. 994 00:42:06,949 --> 00:42:11,599 You know how to do the most amazing, uh, in, uh, conversation with your customers. 995 00:42:11,659 --> 00:42:12,649 I need a better title. 996 00:42:12,769 --> 00:42:14,059 I'm not great with title but you know what I mean? 997 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,939 Um, and the cohorts are all in the room. 998 00:42:16,939 --> 00:42:17,979 They're like, ah, Monica. 999 00:42:18,229 --> 00:42:18,589 Yay. 1000 00:42:18,619 --> 00:42:19,309 Go Monica. 1001 00:42:19,939 --> 00:42:24,544 Um, And so afterwards, you, you sort of, after delivering your keynote speech, you 1002 00:42:24,544 --> 00:42:28,414 have the opportunity to thank those that have had a massive influence on your life. 1003 00:42:29,014 --> 00:42:31,684 Um, just say, I'd like to thank dot, dot, dot. 1004 00:42:31,684 --> 00:42:33,274 Who would be on your list? 1005 00:42:33,279 --> 00:42:35,094 Almost like at the Oscars and, and why? 1006 00:42:35,814 --> 00:42:36,754 That's a easy one. 1007 00:42:36,754 --> 00:42:37,624 That's my mom. 1008 00:42:38,814 --> 00:42:41,224 Always, always, always, always. 1009 00:42:41,224 --> 00:42:41,764 My mom. 1010 00:42:41,794 --> 00:42:46,384 Uh, first and foremost, um, she, uh, raised us as a single mom. 1011 00:42:46,654 --> 00:42:49,654 Uh, here in Holland in a country that wasn't her own that time. 1012 00:42:49,654 --> 00:42:50,614 You know, I'm born and raised here. 1013 00:42:50,614 --> 00:42:51,784 My sister's born and raised here. 1014 00:42:52,024 --> 00:42:53,344 Was the three of us growing up. 1015 00:42:53,674 --> 00:42:57,034 Um, she came from a family back where she was not allowed as 1016 00:42:57,039 --> 00:42:58,864 a woman to finish her studies. 1017 00:42:59,134 --> 00:43:01,174 So she came to, you know, she was in Holland. 1018 00:43:01,179 --> 00:43:03,304 She worked as a receptionist for over 40 years. 1019 00:43:03,634 --> 00:43:07,534 Got us through private international schooling, uh, moved us outta the 1020 00:43:07,534 --> 00:43:10,624 public system to be able to give us a better opportunity and wow. 1021 00:43:10,984 --> 00:43:12,754 Used even on that money. 1022 00:43:13,009 --> 00:43:16,219 That she earned that limited money, even invested in some real estate 1023 00:43:16,219 --> 00:43:20,149 to give a better life, and we were maybe not doing big holidays every 1024 00:43:20,149 --> 00:43:22,219 year, but she showed us what is. 1025 00:43:22,729 --> 00:43:24,889 It's, you know, it's not always about what you earn, it's about 1026 00:43:24,889 --> 00:43:27,889 what's possible and what, and the opportunities you create for yourself. 1027 00:43:27,894 --> 00:43:31,999 And I am where I am today, I think what owe it to my mom and 1028 00:43:32,179 --> 00:43:35,119 I may choose a complete different path being in my own business. 1029 00:43:35,359 --> 00:43:35,449 Mm-hmm. 1030 00:43:35,689 --> 00:43:39,409 But it's just knowing the possibilities you can create for yourself. 1031 00:43:39,439 --> 00:43:42,889 Um, it, it's played the biggest role for me in my life. 1032 00:43:42,919 --> 00:43:46,609 And she's a three times cancer survivor as well, so Holy cow. 1033 00:43:46,999 --> 00:43:50,689 Um, yeah, so she's been through a lot and just showed me what you can do. 1034 00:43:51,099 --> 00:43:54,309 How positivity and how you can just, yeah. 1035 00:43:54,844 --> 00:43:59,194 Be just achieve whatever you want with whatever you have actually. 1036 00:43:59,284 --> 00:44:00,334 Um, that's amazing. 1037 00:44:00,334 --> 00:44:01,354 So yes, it is. 1038 00:44:01,354 --> 00:44:03,484 I may be cliche answer for many people, but it's true. 1039 00:44:03,604 --> 00:44:04,714 It's, uh, my inspiration. 1040 00:44:05,284 --> 00:44:08,164 You'd be surprised actually, I think out of all the people that I've asked, 1041 00:44:08,164 --> 00:44:09,634 you're the first person to mention mum. 1042 00:44:09,634 --> 00:44:10,084 Oh, it's seriously. 1043 00:44:10,904 --> 00:44:11,194 Yeah. 1044 00:44:11,464 --> 00:44:14,494 A lot of, um, a lot of guys mention their dads. 1045 00:44:14,709 --> 00:44:16,449 Um, especially if their dads have passed away. 1046 00:44:16,449 --> 00:44:19,209 That seems to be a common answer to this tough question. 1047 00:44:19,209 --> 00:44:19,269 Yeah. 1048 00:44:19,329 --> 00:44:22,719 But, um, yeah, I'm always surprised how many people don't mention their mums. 1049 00:44:22,779 --> 00:44:25,239 Uh, I think maybe we'll just take her mums for granted, which probably, 1050 00:44:25,609 --> 00:44:28,239 probably, uh, but which we shouldn't do. 1051 00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:29,169 So what's your mum's name? 1052 00:44:29,999 --> 00:44:30,289 Usha. 1053 00:44:31,299 --> 00:44:33,329 Usha sounds like an absolute legend. 1054 00:44:33,969 --> 00:44:38,709 Uh, so, uh, wow, that's quite an impressive, uh, quite an impressive 1055 00:44:38,709 --> 00:44:40,809 resume your mum has, that's for sure. 1056 00:44:40,809 --> 00:44:41,589 So, um, yeah. 1057 00:44:41,594 --> 00:44:42,369 Well, don't, Usha. 1058 00:44:42,459 --> 00:44:43,809 Awesome now. 1059 00:44:44,404 --> 00:44:46,534 Miss Monica, how do people reach you? 1060 00:44:46,534 --> 00:44:49,024 How do they, uh, connect with you if they want to do that? 1061 00:44:49,789 --> 00:44:52,819 Um, you can follow me on Instagram business with Monica, 1062 00:44:53,289 --> 00:44:54,289 uh, business with Monica. 1063 00:44:54,289 --> 00:44:55,939 I'm on LinkedIn under my full name. 1064 00:44:56,269 --> 00:44:58,919 Uh, obviously you can check on my website businesswithmonica.com. 1065 00:44:58,939 --> 00:45:02,149 And we've provided the link, by the way, for the desires over demographics 1066 00:45:02,154 --> 00:45:06,349 framework, the four Ds with a little checklist under each D so you can 1067 00:45:06,349 --> 00:45:07,579 download it if you have missed it. 1068 00:45:07,849 --> 00:45:09,499 So you also know what kind of questions to ask. 1069 00:45:09,919 --> 00:45:11,909 And you can come on my, you'll be on my email list. 1070 00:45:11,909 --> 00:45:13,379 So keep in touch that way. 1071 00:45:13,889 --> 00:45:16,019 Uh, and obviously feel free to reach out if you wanna see 1072 00:45:16,019 --> 00:45:17,129 how I can help work with you. 1073 00:45:17,129 --> 00:45:19,649 I work with people one-on-one through my brand growth mentorship. 1074 00:45:20,489 --> 00:45:23,079 Fantastic businesswithmonica.com. 1075 00:45:23,399 --> 00:45:24,839 Instagram business with Monica. 1076 00:45:25,589 --> 00:45:25,799 LinkedIn. 1077 00:45:27,049 --> 00:45:28,249 We'll put the link in the show notes. 1078 00:45:28,399 --> 00:45:30,529 We'll put the link in the show notes actually as well to your 1079 00:45:30,529 --> 00:45:32,869 Instagram and to your website. 1080 00:45:32,869 --> 00:45:35,539 You can get the show notes, uh, of course from the website. 1081 00:45:35,539 --> 00:45:37,669 You can get the show notes from whatever podcast app you 1082 00:45:37,669 --> 00:45:40,099 are listening to this show on. 1083 00:45:40,099 --> 00:45:42,139 And if you're watching on YouTube, it'll be in the description. 1084 00:45:42,259 --> 00:45:43,009 Basically, wherever. 1085 00:45:43,549 --> 00:45:45,469 Wherever's Easy's for you, go grab the, the links. 1086 00:45:45,949 --> 00:45:50,089 Monica, listen, I, I, I honestly really enjoyed the conversation. 1087 00:45:50,089 --> 00:45:51,439 You've been an absolute legend. 1088 00:45:51,799 --> 00:45:54,109 Uh, and um, thank you for coming on. 1089 00:45:54,879 --> 00:45:55,754 Thank you for having me on. 1090 00:45:55,754 --> 00:45:56,734 I really enjoyed it as well. 1091 00:45:57,649 --> 00:45:58,039 It's been great. 1092 00:45:58,039 --> 00:45:59,719 Honestly, I've got pages of notes. 1093 00:46:00,199 --> 00:46:01,939 Uh, so we're, we're all good. 1094 00:46:02,179 --> 00:46:02,569 We're all good. 1095 00:46:02,569 --> 00:46:03,949 The team hate it cuz they're gonna go. 1096 00:46:03,979 --> 00:46:07,879 Matt, what are we, I've got lots of good ideas from Monica guys. 1097 00:46:07,879 --> 00:46:08,779 Guess what we're gonna do? 1098 00:46:09,439 --> 00:46:09,619 Okay. 1099 00:46:10,309 --> 00:46:14,269 So we will of course link to Monica's info, like I said in the show notes, 1100 00:46:14,269 --> 00:46:19,499 which you can get for free along with the transcript at ecommercepodcast.net. 1101 00:46:19,789 --> 00:46:22,369 Or if you sign up to the newsletter, that will be winging 1102 00:46:22,369 --> 00:46:24,019 its way direct to your inbox. 1103 00:46:24,289 --> 00:46:26,719 Again, huge thanks to Monica for joining for me. 1104 00:46:26,744 --> 00:46:30,524 Uh, joining me today, uh, great conversation and also a 1105 00:46:30,524 --> 00:46:33,664 big shout out to today's show sponsor the e-commerce cohort. 1106 00:46:34,544 --> 00:46:37,304 Uh, they do have some free training, which you can check out 1107 00:46:37,309 --> 00:46:40,004 online at ecommercecycles.com. 1108 00:46:40,094 --> 00:46:41,174 So do have a look at that. 1109 00:46:41,534 --> 00:46:44,564 And also be sure to follow the e-commerce podcast wherever 1110 00:46:44,564 --> 00:46:45,304 you get your podcast from. 1111 00:46:45,794 --> 00:46:49,454 Because I have got some more great conversations, uh, lined up, and I 1112 00:46:49,454 --> 00:46:51,434 don't want you to miss any of them. 1113 00:46:51,704 --> 00:46:56,594 Now, before we wrap up today's episode, let me take a quick moment 1114 00:46:56,594 --> 00:47:00,434 to invite you, dear listener, to become a part of the show. 1115 00:47:01,324 --> 00:47:05,554 If you are an e-commerce entrepreneur, uh, or an expert in e-commerce in 1116 00:47:05,554 --> 00:47:08,584 a field somewhere and would like to share your insights and uh, experiences 1117 00:47:08,584 --> 00:47:12,544 like Monica has done today, well, we would love to hear from you. 1118 00:47:12,724 --> 00:47:14,854 Or if you know someone who would make a great guest, then 1119 00:47:14,854 --> 00:47:16,864 do please send them our way. 1120 00:47:17,164 --> 00:47:23,164 Just head over to our website, ecommercepodcast.net and get in touch. 1121 00:47:23,164 --> 00:47:24,604 That would be awesome. 1122 00:47:25,009 --> 00:47:26,299 Genuinely awesome. 1123 00:47:26,479 --> 00:47:27,679 I'll tell you what else is awesome. 1124 00:47:27,889 --> 00:47:28,759 Uh, let me put this on. 1125 00:47:29,089 --> 00:47:29,569 There you go. 1126 00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:30,979 You are awesome. 1127 00:47:31,159 --> 00:47:34,039 Uh, just in case no one's told you today, you are created awesome. 1128 00:47:34,309 --> 00:47:36,079 It's just a burden you have to bear. 1129 00:47:36,149 --> 00:47:37,519 Monica has to bear it. 1130 00:47:37,789 --> 00:47:38,569 I have to bear it. 1131 00:47:39,109 --> 00:47:39,979 You've gotta bear it too. 1132 00:47:40,579 --> 00:47:44,059 Now, the E-Commerce podcast is produced by Aurion Media. 1133 00:47:44,059 --> 00:47:47,539 You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. 1134 00:47:47,539 --> 00:47:51,829 The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon, Estella 1135 00:47:51,829 --> 00:47:53,339 Robin and Tanya Hutsuliak. 1136 00:47:53,739 --> 00:47:57,739 Our theme song was written by Josh Edmundson, and as I mentioned, if you 1137 00:47:57,739 --> 00:48:01,039 would like to read the transcript or show notes, you can find it all on 1138 00:48:01,039 --> 00:48:04,109 our website, uh, ecommercepodcast.net. 1139 00:48:05,529 --> 00:48:06,939 Now that's it from me. 1140 00:48:07,149 --> 00:48:08,049 That's it from Monica. 1141 00:48:08,049 --> 00:48:09,699 Thank you so much for joining us. 1142 00:48:09,819 --> 00:48:10,929 Have a fantastic week. 1143 00:48:11,049 --> 00:48:11,889 I'll see you next time. 1144 00:48:12,379 --> 00:48:13,139 Bye for now.