[00:00:00] Everybody's going through something. So we look at our senior leaders, like maybe one day they're going to change and acknowledge me. No, they got squirrels running around in their heads too, they have problems too. What are we going to do differently to make them look up, be like, wait, did she just start talking?

[00:00:17] And they hired you for your talent that you're keeping to yourself. So it's a self perpetuating disaster.

[00:00:24] Yes. And it's definitely not a good scenario where you're looking for others to tell you what your worth and value is. That's not a good way to enter into a situation. I mean, it just doesn't end well, I mean, that was what was creating the anger within me. When I would look around and say, okay, I had two advanced degrees or I've been practicing longer than others, but I seem to not be able to get into a role that really reflects my ability. So stop accepting the roles, right? Start setting goals and, moving towards them.

[00:00:56] Welcome to Why She's Winning with your host, Christy Rutherford, a master of office politics and self care advocacy.

[00:01:04] Christy's clients have received over 10 million in salary raises in a pandemic, surprised that women are still getting paid during these challenging times. It's possible for you too. You can have it all. If you believe you deserve it, Christy and her guest will assist you with that. Let's get started.

[00:01:24] Welcome back everyone to Why She's Winning. I am your host Christy Rutherford. And today we have one of my favorite people in the whole wide world, Mitchelle Pierre-Poinsette. How are you?

[00:01:36] I'm well, thank you. Glad to be here.

[00:01:38] Awesome. Y'all like to have fun. We're gonna have a little bit of fun on this interview. I hope that you find it fun.

[00:01:46] I always find you fun, Christy.

[00:01:50] We work together in 2020 and your results have been one just amazing. One, I'm proud of you and thank the growth that you've had internally, which affected your external condition. So tell the audience a little bit about what were some of the challenges that you were having that made you want to reach out and change, really.

[00:02:15] Well, it's interesting because I didn't fully see the challenges that I needed to work on when I first reached out to you. You're not the first coach that I've worked with. I've worked with a couple of others that have given me, or to help me position myself, to advance within my career as an in-house lawyer.

[00:02:32] And that's what I thought I was getting with you. I was ready to go to the next level, go from director to an executive level. And you were outspoken and direct in some of what I saw on social media. So I thought, you know, she seems like she's a good person to work with and I seemed comfortable with you as a fellow woman of color.

[00:02:51] So that was also important to me. But after our first conversation, I kind of walked away thinking I might need a little bit more help. Cause you really had me thinking about some internal work that I needed to do, and that me being able to advance in my career was actually more within my control than I initially thought.

[00:03:16] It wasn't just executive presence, which I thought was what I needed to advance. I actually needed to do some internal work within me, which in turn would allow me to show up differently for those opportunities that would kind of unfold on their own, as opposed to me feeling like I'm chasing after something.

[00:03:37] And I need to create this persona of myself that fits within what I thought was required within the corporate environment to advance.

[00:03:45] Yes, that's so good. So let's talk about executive presence with what you thought it was and now what you know it to be.

[00:03:55] I mean, initially I thought it was showing up to meetings prepared to put on a show.

[00:04:02] Yep. Yes.

[00:04:02] And to put on a show in a way that appealed to the individuals that were at the table, more often than not, they didn't look like me and they were typically male. So I needed to know how to show up in a way where I can be seen and viewed as an effective leader and not the angry black woman.

[00:04:20] And to be viewed as somebody that was productive and it's not just wearing the suit and pulling your hair back in a neat ponytail. I wasn't on the golf course making deals. So I needed to figure out how to get to the table and highlight my skills in a way for people to say, okay, I think she's ready to advance. That's what I thought.

[00:04:41] After the work that I've done with you so far, I realize. It's really not that I think a part of it now is how I show up and how I determine my own worth. I think before I was allowing others to determine my worth, as opposed to me knowing my worth and just showing up in that person that know it needs to be valued and not letting others dictate that for me.

[00:05:04] And I think showing up with that confidence, knowing my worth. So then other people are like, wow, I can see it now with her. Before I felt like I needed to ask for permission. Whereas now I'm showing up knowing my value and it's easier for folks to really just kind of come on board and give me room and space to do what it is I can do to advance within my career. I know that's a mouthful. Does that make sense?

[00:05:29] No, I love it. One of the things that I love about what you said, so yes, we should be clear and most women should be following because we keep thinking that as women of color and then just women in general, and then black women on top of that, that executive presence means being more like them, you know, crossing your arms and firing your brow and being more productive when that's not really what it means.

[00:05:56] And if women haven't progressed in the past 200 years, or especially with all the things that are going on in the past 20 years with all of this training where we're talking about it, we're learning the wrong things. You talked about when you just showed up as yourself, that made you more confident and you knew your value, which made you more confident.

[00:06:16] And then when you saw within yourself, they saw it. Tell the audience a little bit more about that.

[00:06:22] For me, a part of it was, I was waiting for other people to tell me I was great, as opposed to me telling myself I know I'm great. And just showing up in my greatness, waiting for others to give me permission to be great. When I said now I'm great. And I can step into that. And to me, I think a lot of that is worthiness kind of issues. And also, I tend to be a bit of an introvert, when I was in those scenarios where I felt like I had something to offer. I felt like I needed to wait for someone to give me permission to speak up and I would shrink and become small as opposed to now I feel as though I know that what I have to say has value.

[00:07:05] So I need to share that. And I'm finding that the more that I share, the more that people look to me and ask me my opinion, quite frankly. Whereas before I was just sitting around, waiting for people to ask and wondered why they never ask. So I needed to do my part, to show up, show what it is that I have to offer, and people tend to respond better in that way.

[00:07:26] And I think a part of it too, is I have a different perspective. I think I always had, you know, I was angry quite frankly. And I would, you know, step into these jobs thinking I didn't need to change. I just needed to find the right job at the right place, that value that I had to offer. And now I'm realizing no, it was me.

[00:07:47] I was the common denominator at all these different jobs. So something within me or something I was doing was not working. So I think that was part of it too. Like I had limiting beliefs about myself and my ability, which in turn blocked opportunities for me to advance. So I was limiting myself, not to say that systemic racism doesn't exist, but I see the role that I played in limiting myself.

[00:08:10] And I'm starting to remove those barriers and I'm seeing what comes from that and the benefit of that.

[00:08:17] Woo. That's what I'm talking about. Yes!

[00:08:22] But I have to do the work first. I have to do some real healing with trauma to get me there. It wasn't easy. And as you know, I'm a bit of a Yogi I've had other coaches, I've gone to therapy.

[00:08:35] I've done yoga. You know, I used to meditate, maybe not on a regular basis, but I never did this type of level of work to heal prior trauma to really release and move on. When I thought I did honestly. And I think I also have a different definition for what strength means. Before I thought I needed to kind of, push through situations and circumstances that I didn't like.

[00:08:58] And I never really understood what it mean to really take care of myself. To me now I view vulnerability differently and I view being able to say, no, I can't do this. Probably takes more strength and to keep on saying yes and pushing through scenarios, that just don't work for me.

[00:09:13] I love it. Cuz you're dropping so many gyms here because we always one, think that they're trying to lock us out of the room. They are against us. Look, let's be clear, which is a strong narrative in the state of the women in the workplace for McKenzie organizations need to do more for women of color. It's in all of the articles, Forbes articles, vein studies. Managers need to be more receptive to what women of color have to offer. Well, they are receptive, but women of color are sitting in the room waiting for somebody to ask them the question, this is what I understand and what I know to be true.

[00:09:52] Everybody's going through something. So we look at our senior leaders like, maybe one day they're going to change and acknowledge me. No, they got squirrels running around in their heads too, they have problems too. What are we going to do differently to make them look up, be like, wait, did she just start talking?

[00:10:10] And they hired you for your talent that you're keeping to yourself. So it's a self perpetuating disaster.

[00:10:17] Yes. And it's definitely not a good scenario where you're looking for others to tell you what your worth and value is. That's not a good way to enter into a situation. I mean, it just doesn't end well, I mean, that was what was creating the anger within me.

[00:10:30] When I would look around and say, okay, I have two advanced degrees or I've been practicing longer than others, but I seem to not be able to get into a role. That really reflects my ability. So stop accepting the roles. Right. Start setting goals and moving towards them.

[00:10:48] But you were accepting the roles, but you weren't showing up how you were in person wasn't matching the paper.

[00:10:55] Agreed. I agree.

[00:10:56] Because you were waiting for them to ask you and they didn't ask. So they kept moving on without you. And you were like, no, no, no, wait aren't you gonna ask me, which made you angry? So moving, when you did talk, you were so mad.

[00:11:09] It didn't come out well, let's just say that. It didn't make for pleasant experiences. And at the end of the day, people wants to work with some. And then the thing is, what I realized too, is that, there was resentment that was building up. Right. And as much as I felt like some people didn't know my value, I started to treat other people in a way that wasn't nice, either. Like I would just be looking for the opportunity to be like, see, you don't know nothing, and I'm gonna play like that to others.

[00:11:37] I mean, I didn't wanna be treated that way. So why was I reacting that way. That doesn't make for anyone saying, yeah, let's vote for a child to lead more people and add to her team. I mean, it just doesn't add up, but I was just so deep in my own pity that I just couldn't get out of my own way.

[00:11:56] That's so good. Whew. You said pity. Because it's anger, resentment, hate. And it's not hate in a bad way, but it is hate because you're mad because you have all this talent and nobody sees it. And then it becomes haterade, and then pity. And what I love about what you were sharing is you did it.

[00:12:21] It's like, hello. It's like we're creating all of these scenarios, but we're blaming other people and we're not moving ahead and we're not getting in a C-suite. So every time I read all these articles and all of these people are pointing fingers to everybody else, it's 20,000 people point to other fan. And I'm the one like this, just go ahead and turn that finger around, it's you.

[00:12:41] And it's funny that you say that, cuz now you've helped me to kind of slow down my thought process a bit. And I start to dissect situations. Like when I feel myself getting angry, I start to think about why am I angry? And there would be scenarios where I would see other women in particular that are in higher roles.

[00:12:58] And I would look, and I would hate to your point, but now I'm like, don't hate. Like figure out how to emulate. That's my thing now. And it's like, go talk to the woman and found out, you know, how did she get to where she is now? As opposed to sitting from afar, all upset and angry. The anger's not doing anything for me.

[00:13:18] When I can turn that around and say, you know, step up to the woman and say, look, you know, I see where you are in your role, how did you get there? I mean, that would help me more than just sitting, be feeling small, not saying anything and just being angry.

[00:13:35] Now that you have the clarity. Now you can have the conversations.

[00:13:39] Yes.

[00:13:40] Without blaming everybody's going through something, but it takes you to be like, and then what do you find the receptivity of the women? Because there are a lot of women who hate on the women at the higher levels and I'm like, they'll talk to you right? if you go ask them a question, you know, they'll give you advice if you're worth pouring into, and you're not coming in day one pointing the finger, talking about them.

[00:14:03] Right. And I think that's the thing, right? It's not me saying, for example, a woman in color, in a senior level, going up to her and saying, oh my God, how did you get past the systemic racism? I don't think it's that. I mean, I think the approach is I have hopes of potentially being in a particular position such as yours.

[00:14:20] How did you get there? Do you have any tips? I mean, to your point, the approach makes a difference, but I was so angry that even if I were to approach someone at that point, I'd be putting out negativity and now I'm realizing that comes back to me in a negative way, and it's not productive.

[00:14:40] We talked about where you were and then where you are, which was not an easy path. You did a lot of work.

[00:14:48] I did.

[00:14:49] And it was all internal. What was maybe one thing that you did, or one thing that I said that made a click for you that really turned the light bulb on it was like this, it's me.

[00:15:03] I mean, I think there were a couple of things. I think the 21 day forgiveness challenge was definitely a point that caused me to start reflecting, because after you forgive someone, then you have to release some of that anger. And I needed to accept that, you know, that individual did the best that he or she can do. And I needed to forgive them.

[00:15:23] If I forgive Tom, I can't be mad at Tom anymore and carry that anger with me. So releasing some of that anger. It freed up my heart for other stuff. And so I think the forgiveness challenge was a big part for me. And the other thing was doing the work of meditating daily and taking walks outside in nature.

[00:15:43] Doing those activities helped me to clear my mind and to have those conversations with myself to dissect maybe why I was reacting the way I was reacting, like before I was just in the day to day activities going through my to-do list, where I didn't even acknowledge those times where I felt myself getting angry and the tension in my body and the tension in my chest.

[00:16:05] Whereas now I'm mindful of that. And I can just take a few deep breaths. Don't allow that to escalate and make sense of why that I feel the way I feel.

[00:16:15] So I hear large part of that was, one, you had to acknowledge that you were angry and we don't wanna do that. Because anger is our normal. If I'm baseline angry, what's the difference between level eight angry and level 10.

[00:16:27] But don't, you dare tell me as a sister that I'm an angry black woman, because you would get cussed out. It's not might, you would get the business.

[00:16:36] And I think that's what it is. I was always offended when people would say that to me. And it got bad. When your kids look at you and tell you that you're always angry.

[00:16:45] That ain't funny.

[00:16:45] And that just made me more angry as opposed to me saying, yeah, I am angry. I have reason to be, and I'm trying to work on that.

[00:16:54] We're justified in that anger. But then because of what's happening and because you're not getting ahead and because you do have people who aren't as qualified and they're not as smart as you, so externally, you're justified in your anger for all the things that they're doing to you.

[00:17:10] And they're not asking you to come into the room and they're not asking you to network and they're not having the conversations with you, and they're not asking you for your feedback and they're not asking, they're not asking, they're not asking, we're creating the cycle to be justified in our anger.

[00:17:25] And then don't even know we're angry. Oh yeah. You mad as H E L L that's one and then over time. So it wasn't the, oh, I'm angry. Now I can see it. It was. Okay, I'm angry. So now let me dissipate this anger, cuz now I have to work on it and you were deeply rooted.

[00:17:46] You know, you got the grip on anger. You got some people who kind of rub the tree. And you guys are people who like this and you were like this. And so it was like the peel in your fingers off of the things that you were angry about. And what I loved about what you said, forgiveness is free.

[00:18:03] Walking was free and then meditating was free. So this isn't about going out and doing cryogenics. And I see these people doing these outrageous things, that like, you know, you can chill out for free.

[00:18:14] And you know, that's the thing, right? I was the person that would get a regular massage. I was going to hot yoga and spin class.

[00:18:25] And what I realized through working with you, I mean, it felt good in the moment, but within 10 minutes of me being done with that activity, I would look at my work phone, an email would trigger me and I'd go right back to being that angry person.

[00:18:37] Right back in the hole.

[00:18:39] I mean something.I clearly, wasn't getting to the root of the issues that were causing me to be angry.

[00:18:44] And I think that's the difference now. I mean, it's still hard. I mean, I'm not perfect there. There's still those times where I get upset, but I can make sense of why and turn it into something that's productive as opposed to this cycle of just being angry.

[00:19:01] Yeah. I love it. I mean, a large part of the show is what I want women to realize. Because Greek women are angry. French women are angry. Brazilian women are angry. Sisters are angry, but I really want women to know is that we get caught and we're trapped there in our forties. And a lot of women die like that later. And then they also, we're creating the medical conditions. Florence Scovel Shinn said, unforgiveness is the most prolific cause of disease.

[00:19:30] So she said, it's not a matter of. What's the matter with you, but who's the matter with you and James Allen talked about anxiety quickly demoralizes the body and leaves it open to the disease in decay. So they were talking about this in 1909 and in the 1930s. And so the number one cause of death for black women in America is heart disease and cancer.

[00:19:52] And a lot of that is emotional baggage that we're dragging around with us. And then, the workplace only exacerbates the challenge that we have tell the audience a little bit about not your childhood stuff, but how some of the same things in your childhood showed up at work.

[00:20:13] Because I talk to women all the time and you're not straight to the childhood, cuz that's my thing. That's trauma default. I'll be like this. So tell me what's happening in your childhood.

[00:20:20] Life experiences for me in childhood, I'm a cancer survivor. So to your point, you know, I've been there, I've done that.

[00:20:26] And you would think after facing death, I would think, why do I let these things upset me? and caused me to be angry. I should be happy that I'm alive, but there was so much to your point childhood trauma that I hadn't processed, that I just carried that burden. And that weight with me, I grew up in an environment I'm Haitian.

[00:20:43] Both of my parents were really strict. They were definitely the type of parents who I just do as they wanted me to do. And a part of that started to create resentment that stayed with me. And I didn't have an opportunity to think on my own. So if I was ever in a scenario where I felt someone say something to me where they weren't allowing me to, I don't know, speak my truth, or I felt like they were being controlling or hindering me in some way.

[00:21:12] I realized that I was reverting back to that little girl that was upset at the way her parents were treating her. But I didn't feel like I can do anything about it. Cuz I just had to comply as a child. My parents were not very affectionate. I mean, there were times, quite frankly, there was a bit of emotional abuse.

[00:21:28] You know, there were times when my father would tell me you're not intelligent. So if I was ever in a situation where I felt like someone was somehow alluding to the fact that I wasn't intelligent, then that was it, I'd go off. And those type of patterns did not help me within the workplace. Because those were triggers for me.

[00:21:49] And part of the work that I did with you is making sense of what those triggers were or are, and understanding how to kind of walk myself off the ledge before going off. Cause at that point, to be honest with you, I was irrational. Cause there were certain times I'm seeing now that you know, how dare this person questioned my intelligence.

[00:22:08] No, they weren't questioning my intelligence. They just had a simple question. That they wanted me to answer. Like it wasn't that deep. And I was getting upset over things that I really didn't need to. So that's important not to say that. I mean, there's a lot of crappy stuff in the world.

[00:22:26] It's hard being a black woman in corporate America, but I definitely was kind of it didn't take much to set me off.

[00:22:34] Woo walk around ticket time bomb, ready to get the business in.

[00:22:39] Yeah.

[00:22:39] And for me it is not about. My work is just different. It was not a comparison of this or that, but I was reading actually one of my friends who's a therapist talk about triggers and he said that triggers are excuses.

[00:22:53] And he went on and on and on. And like, don't come in here saying that's just my trigger. Like I'm not trying to hear that that's an excuse and da, da, da, da, da. They don't exist in my world. And I thought about for me and the work that I do, which is why it's different. So I tell people, technically I'm an executive coach.

[00:23:11] Kind of, because I work with leaders because we need the most help, but I also do a lot of deep work and triggers is where the magic is for me. Because if you can understand why, like you said, somebody asked you a simple question. But your mind POOM you throw light of fluid on them and they put the business and they were like, what did I do?

[00:23:31] And so we're always being accused of overreacting and don't tell me I'm overreacting, which throws more light of fluid. You know?

[00:23:39] Yes.

[00:23:40] And you're reacting from the mind of what your dad said to you like 40 years ago, and you have no idea. And then all the baggage that came along with that to now incinerate this one person who just had a simple question.

[00:23:54] And you being irrational. That was so good because we're incapable of rational thought when we are in rage.

[00:24:01] Yeah. I would say that that is correct. And I've experienced that. And I think me being able to not allow myself to get to that tipping point has allowed me to communicate better with others, which in turns creates better work relationships.

[00:24:18] Yeah, as I said, I'm still the work in progress, but I definitely can now see some of the things that I was doing to myself that wasn't helping me.

[00:24:26] Tell the audience about how cuz I used to go home wiped out.

[00:24:32] Yes.

[00:24:32] And I didn't have kids. Like I tell people, I couldn't imagine being married with kids in this mental state that I was in at the senior level.

[00:24:42] Cause it's different when we're younger. Cuz there aren't any really expectations. But your trauma default exacerbates the more pressure you're under. Because now you're caught and you're swirling. Tell us the difference between how you used to come home and how you are, you know, and I know we're working from home now, but people are still being triggered on Zoom.

[00:25:02] Tell us the difference in I think your personal quality of life and how that's changed.

[00:25:06] I mean, that's changed as well. I'm a wife, I'm a mom. I have a nine and an 11 year old and I didn't hear it before, but as I started to do the work with you, I started hearing my kids saying you're angry a lot.

[00:25:21] It's like I would come home and it's like, you know what happened at work today? What are you angry about?

[00:25:27] Yikes!

[00:25:27] Yeah. I didn't realize how bad it was. Until I started to do the work with you and actually started to listen to what my kids had to say and what my husband had to say. And I think that's what helped propel me to do the deep dive with you also.

[00:25:41] That's not what I want for my kids in doing the work. I think there's definitely, it feels lighter in the house now. I have fun with my kids and my husband in a way that I didn't before. That's a huge benefit and I wanna stay that way and I wanna figure out how to continue to do that and make that just how I live my life, as opposed to trying to compartmentalize it and say, oh, I can be.

[00:26:04] I used to think to myself, I can be miserable at work, but I'll turn it off when I get home and it's not gonna affect home. And I didn't realize that same bee that I was at work. That was the same person when I came home. And my kids realized that, and that impacted how they interacted with me and what they thought of me.

[00:26:23] Both kids have no desire to be a lawyer because they think being a lawyer means being miserable at work and being quite frankly, they're not gonna say it, but a miserable person. I'm helping to change that narrative now, which I'm really proud of.

[00:26:37] That's so good. One, because they were telling you probably for years, you never heard them.

[00:26:43] Nope.

[00:26:44] Going back to your parents and we talked about this and it was like five or so minutes ago, we look at our parents as our heroes and we don't understand that they're broken people too.

[00:26:52] Yes.

[00:26:53] And with their problems. And then what I love with you is go back to the parents childhood, which now you can see why the dad was broken and why he acts the way he does and why the mom was broken two broken people now having kids that they're breaking and their sometimes conscious and unconscious dysfunctions. Because parents think that they're doing their best. They think they're doing their best by pushing you to be a lawyer. So you won't be poor pushing you to get good grades in school. So you won't be like some of the American kids who drop outta school in high school.

[00:27:26] That's not gonna happen in my house. My kids are going to be successful. And then you become successful. I work with a lot of first generation, whether people move from different countries or where they were born in the countries with their parents. There are so many challenges that first generation people have because of the standards that their parents placed on them.

[00:27:47] But the parents have made a sacrifice for their kids. So they have high expectations and there is so much shattering in that in the now adult kids who are now passing it down to their kids. And it only takes one person, Mitchelle. To get hold in their families to set families free for generations.

[00:28:07] And I remember you saying that during one of our sessions, and that really resonated with me. It made me feel empowered in that way, because especially as I was going through the forgiveness exercise, I thought about my parents. My father has since passed. But my mother's still alive. And when I talked to her, she wouldn't know how to show me affection, cuz she didn't experience that as a child.

[00:28:28] Exactly. Yup.

[00:28:29] So why would I expect anything more from her? And I think that concept of knowing that she did the best that she can do and that I need to forgive her for how she may have harmed me in a way that wasn't intentional. is what allows me to move on and to release some of that trauma and to your point, with the hopes of breaking that cycle. So I'm not passing it on to my kids.

[00:28:51] You know, Louise Hay said, forgive your parents because they did the best they could with what they had and what they knew at the time.

[00:28:59] Right.

[00:29:00] And the thing about the work that we do is if you can see your parents from the rational adult, mind, not the mind of the wounded child, because the wounded child could never see your parents properly. But if you understand how tough it was from the rational adult mind seeing yourself in the movie, you be like this. So how can I really expect the perfect childhood when they were just incapable of giving it to me? And that's how you truly forgive.

[00:29:29] Yeah, I agree. And that forgiveness it's not just for the benefit of my relationship with my mother today. It's for the benefit of me not walking around with this weight on my shoulders saying I'm miserable, cuz my mother didn't show me affection. I mean, I think that's huge to be able to shift my perspective in that way.

[00:29:49] I think has freed me to be happier in my life. Not just in terms of my relationship with my mother, just in general.

[00:29:57] I had you start dancing.

[00:29:58] Yeah.

[00:29:59] Because you take yourself very seriously as all good lawyers do.

[00:30:03] I do.

[00:30:06] Talk to the listeners about the benefits of just moving and like actually being happy.

[00:30:15] You know, I think something that you really help me with is you asked me what activities kind of bring me joy and dancing is definitely one of them. At the point that we met, I wasn't dancing very often. I tend to be kind of serious for the most part, but to be able to dance and to feel that joy.

[00:30:35] And then, I would hear you in my head, like I need to figure out how the joy that I feel while I'm dancing. I feel in every other aspect of my life.

[00:30:43] Yes!

[00:30:44] And I think that was huge in me in terms of evaluating how I'm spending my time, who am I spending it with? You know, what am I doing? So that joy that I have when I'm dancing, like it stays within me.

[00:30:58] And just, I can carry it with me in other aspects of my life. And when I need to remember, I just gotta dance again before I think I used to think I enjoy dancing and dancing would bring me joy, but that's just not my life. Whereas now it's no, that can be my life. I mean, things happen in life that are horrible.

[00:31:18] But I still owe it to myself to put myself in position to feel joy as often as possible. So that movement is very helpful for me. And then just, just listening to the music is just fun.

[00:31:32] You're a cancer survivor, which is phenomenal. And I keep forgetting because is not a part of your present.

[00:31:38] It matters. I'm not saying that it doesn't matter. But sometimes. People use that as a reason for why they're fearful or you know, you can go either way, you can be like, I'm afraid it's gonna happen. So I'm gonna live safe and in a bubble forever, or I'm just gonna go all the way out and shave my head and try jump off clips and all those other kind of things. But you didn't lift, you just stayed there. Does that make sense?

[00:32:07] And it's funny in some ways I think I became even more conservative. Because at the time that it happened, I was just so focused on going through treatment and doing everything I needed to do to prevent a recurrence that I didn't realize I wasn't living.

[00:32:20] Like I was eating right. I had the plant based diet. I was doing the yoga. I was doing the meditation. I was getting acupuncture. I was combining Eastern and Western medicine. And I was about, I thought I was healing. I didn't realize that that wasn't the case until I started working with you.

[00:32:40] And digging deeper and realizing like, even when I get angry now, to your point, you know, I've been through cancer, like, why am I upset that I think somebody's talking to me sideways at work, who cares? You know, now I can laugh at it, whereas before I'd be ready to explode. But yes, I definitely, I didn't heal in the way that I thought I did.

[00:33:03] And I think that's the biggest aha moment for me. I was physically healing, but spiritually and emotionally, I was not. And I feel like that's where I am now. It's more of a holistic approach. And really working towards being whole.

[00:33:20] What are two things that you think the audience can do now to be able to get to the other side of their joy?

[00:33:30] Can I say three things.

[00:33:31] Yeah.

[00:33:31] I think it definitely is forgiveness exercise. I think the forgiveness is huge. Making time to walk and meditate. I think that would be number two. And I think the third thing is really identifying those activities that bring you joy and doing them as often as possible.

[00:33:48] And setting a goal for yourself that you wanna feel that way as often as you can every day, and then everything else will somewhat fall into place over time.

[00:34:01] I love it because we forget what it's like to be happy. Just to expand a little bit on the exercise. What brings you joy dancing?

[00:34:10] Okay, great.

[00:34:11] So dancing enough and be like, okay, you remember what that feels like? Yes. I love it. Make that a part of your life do more things that make you feel like that. Go ahead.

[00:34:20] And I'm almost embarrassed to say this, but I actually have to send an alarm on my phone to dance every day at 12:00 PM.

[00:34:28] That's not, it's not, no, you're, you're a structured woman. Go ahead.

[00:34:31] And in the beginning it was like, I need to set schedule time to experience joy. So in the beginning, I was like, wow, this is, I'm kinda sad. But I needed that, and I needed to feel it often enough.

[00:34:47] Yep.

[00:34:48] Consistently enough where now when I decide, what do I wanna do or not wanna do? I can think. If I don't think it's gonna bring me that type of joy that I experience when dancing, I'm not gonna waste my time with it. And then that creates a Mitchelle that just doesn't get as angry.

[00:35:04] Hallelujah.

[00:35:05] So it sounds simple and quirky in terms of scheduling time to have, or do those activities that bring you joy, but it's really important. And to do it consistently, even if it's just five minutes, that was huge for me.

[00:35:19] So the last thing, the thing about it is you are committed. We're so busy and creating and sustaining a new habit is the hardest thing that you'll do. So being happy is a new habit for you.

[00:35:31] I think before it was just all right this thing that I'm working on may suck, but I'm a strong woman, so I gotta push through it. I mean, I went from happiness being my baseline to I'm miserable, but I just have to push through it because that demonstrates my strength. Whereas now I'm like no pushing to have joy in my life as often as possible. That's real strength.

[00:35:56] Woo. Tweet that.

[00:36:01] Can I say one thing too? I think something else it's not just joy. Something that you introduce me to is this concept of pleasure. Which before I just didn't think about, and then now that I think about that, cuz joy, I don't think it's just the it's the happiness feeling, but I think as a woman, the concept of pleasure I think is really important and significant. And I don't think we prioritize that enough.

[00:36:28] We don't prioritize it at all.

[00:36:30] It helped me get out of my little box from that perspective. That's important too. That's definitely changed my relationship with my husband and my relationship with myself. To be honest with you, that was never on the list of priorities. And now I realize if you're getting pleasure, you're probably not as angry all the time.

[00:36:54] Yeah.

[00:36:55] At the end of the day, if you show up and you're a lot more pleasant, I would take a guess to say, you're probably positioning yourself better for any type of advancement or promotion at work.

[00:37:03] Okay. I'm just going to say it, right. Like I tell people when people are like super angry, be like, heain't getting none at home. I just saying it's like, he ain't. He is like, and it is what it is, but it's. Because we're so busy trying to push for a result. Seeking that, that result is what's going to make us happy and what's going to give us joy and what's going to give us pleasure. And you can have more awards on your wall than the Rockefeller Christmas tree and still be miserable.

[00:37:33] Yes. And I think now I'm enjoying the journey. Whereas before I was so focused to getting to the goal and I didn't care if I was miserable on my journey, whereas now I'm like, no, I need to enjoy the journey. And once I reach that goal, I think it'll make it even better.

[00:37:48] Thank you for joining us. Be sure to subscribe to this podcast and leave us a review if you love this episode, follow Christy on Instagram and LinkedIn, and don't forget to get her free gift by texting "changenow" all one word again, "changenow" to 66866 until next time, go out and win bigger.