Phil Dawson, aka Phil the Barber, is a 20 year industry veteran barber instructor, celebrity barber and barbershop owner.

Today we're going to hear his story, how he got to where he is and what is the state of the industry as a barber instructor working at a hair school.

What is the perspective from not only an instructor but also a barbershop owner?

What is that perspective and what is that dynamic like from.

From his view?

Welcome back to the Hairdresser Strong show.

My name is Robert Hughes and I am your host and today I'm with Phil.

How you doing today, Phil?

Hey, how you doing, man?

How's everything?

Very good, very good.

Thank you so much for coming on the show.

We really appreciate this, man.

Thank you for having me, man.

It's definitely an honor, man.

I heard so much about Hairdresser Strong.

So when, when you called me to reach out, when you reached out to me, you know, and say I want you on the show, man, it was a no brainer.

I was like, yo, I would definitely love to be on the show.

So I'm glad we was able to work our work, our schedules out for me to be on the show, man.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Well, to all of our audience members.

We.

I met Philip at like in person.

I met you at temple in Annapolis.

Temple school in Annapolis and what an amazing school.

Shout out to Charles and Sharon.

They're awesome.

And, and then so like we were, we got to talking, Phil and I, and we were talk about like, you know what Hairdresser Strong we talk a lot about is the students and setting themselves up for success.

And like, is that happening?

What, what if it's not?

What needs to happen?

If it is happening, what does that look like, et cetera.

So.

All right, so Phil, before we get into that, tell us a little bit about your story.

Like did you go to school?

Did you apprenticeship program and tell us like, you know, like you were working, where you working and then like the steps that led you to hear.

Okay, so yes, I did go to a barber school.

I went to Bennett Career Institute is in Washington D.C.

pretty much my foundation.

I have two uncles who are both barbers.

So I watched them before I actually went to school and one of one actually showed me the clippers.

Put the clippers in my hand, showed me how they work.

That was my uncle A.

But then my uncle Angelo, he was the celebrity barber.

So he was the barber that I was like, yo, on a mimic, you know, he was cutting like Jill Scott and Floyd Mayweather.

So I said, yes, I really want to be on that platform.

But they both encouraged me to go to school and get the education and the knowledge of Barbara.

So that's how I ended up going to Bennett Career Institute.

And over the years, I have worked on major platforms such as the Broner Brothers In Atlanta, the D.C.

only down at the convention center.

And I also work with major artists such as Glenn Jackson, Kendall Gaskins from the 49ers and new editions own Johnny Gibb.

So nice.

I'm thankful that I'm able to reach those goals and was able to get on those platforms over the years of Barbarian.

So speaking of getting on different platforms, for anybody one who's here, listen this.

And isn't 100% sure what you mean.

What do you mean by that?

So getting on platforms is pretty much achieving, you know, making goals and achieving the goals that you're trying to achieve.

I wanted to be a celebrity barber.

When I first got in the industry, one of the first things I kept saying, I called myself the celebrity barber.

And it was more so not.

Not just that I wanted to cut celebrities, but I wanted to let my clients feel like they were celebrities getting out my chair.

So that was the main thing.

So my celebrities, not the ones that I've cut, the big names that everybody knows, is the names that people don't know, they get in my chair every other day, every two weeks, every week, every month, you know, so those are my celebrities.

Those who I look up to is my celebrity.

Nice.

And what do you.

What do you think was the reason why you were able to get so many different opportunities during your career?

The reason why I was able to get to those was because I didn't wait for.

I didn't wait for the phone to ring.

I went after it for myself.

I put myself in different arenas, such as the Barner Brothers Hair show itself, going to visit and spectate, but also network.

I had to network with different.

Different barbers, different stylists, and build a relationship and a rapport with them.

So.

And also I just kept letting them know, this is what I want to do.

This is what I want to do.

And to a point where, oh, Phil, I got an opportunity for you.

Or, Phil, can you fly out to Chicago for this event?

And I'm like, okay, yes.

But I put myself in those arenas.

I've networked with these people to help get me there.

I didn't really just wait for it to fall in my lap, meaning I didn't just sit in a barbershop and just put on my thumbs, hoping and wishing the phone was going to ring or hoping and wishing someone's gonna come knock on my door.

No, I started kicking on their doors.

And I just kept putting in people's heads every single day, every week, like, yo, this is what I want to do.

Do you know anybody?

Do you know how can I get there?

And that's how I ended up getting to where I was able to get to.

Nice.

So what, what, like, at what point?

How long?

Like, so did you work with family after school?

And then I like, tell me about, like, from school to with your own shop, like, what was that?

What was that path?

Like?

Okay, so I think school, no, I did not work with family.

I actually found a mentor at a, at a local mall in PG county and thought I was going to work with him.

And it was funny because he was like, man, you got to get the Gap.

You can come work in our shop.

And.

And I ended up talking to the owner of the shop, got in the shop.

And the day that I got hired, my mentor ended up quitting.

No, no.

So, you know, I felt like I was just left, you know, by myself and.

Totally.

Yeah, totally.

So it was crazy because at the time I thought I was a dope barber, you know, me, I thought, you know, I had the skill levels to do what I needed to do.

But I was also had a wake up call.

I realized that I was not the dope barber that I thought I was at the time.

I had to take.

I had to really groom my skills and hone my skills.

Meaning, like, I really had to work on my phase.

I had to work on my regulars, work on my shape ups.

And it took my peers around me to let me know that, yo, you need some work.

So it took time.

It didn't happen overnight.

It took a lot of frustration.

It took a lot of thoughts like, man, I just want to quit.

But I had to.

My pride wouldn't let me quit.

I worked too hard, I went to school, I paid all this money.

I have goals.

So it wouldn't let me quit.

I knew what my gift and my passion was and the peers around me wouldn't let me quit.

So that's what I'm thankful for with those, I mean, with the peers that was around me.

So I think I worked in that shop for about a year.

And once I worked in the shop trying to build my clientele, worked in another shop, in another shop.

And then finally I took my.

I think I got into my big break when I want to say I got to my, like, third shop, my third or fourth shop.

And at that time, celebrities was coming through, and I thought I wouldn't be the one to cut the celebrities.

And guess what?

I didn't.

I didn't.

You know, But I watched my other barbers that was around me, my other peers, they were cutting the celebrities.

They was on the platform.

So I knew I was getting closer.

And I want to say my.

The.

The biggest thing that got me is when I had stopped cutting for two years.

I stopped cutting for two years.

I had just gotten married, had kids.

I was like, yo, I gotta do something better.

I think at the time, the shop I was working at was a little slow.

So I took a break, you know, for two years, end up getting another job.

And what were you doing anything?

Was using, like, your.

Any of your skills?

No, I was.

It was definitely slowly opposite from barber.

I was working with adt, doing a security installation.

Gotcha.

And then I went from security installation to working with another company called Guardian.

So it really just a toll on.

So I'm.

I'm a Bible believer.

I'm very spiritual with the most high.

And I remember I was in my room one day, and I was like.

Just broke down crying.

And I was like, yo, what is my purpose?

What is my.

What am I supposed to be doing with my life?

And he actually showed me my hands.

Just like this.

He showed me my hands.

And at the time, I.

I thought it was about drums.

Cause I'm a musician as well.

So I started practicing drums.

And I'm practicing.

Find me a drummer, a drum instructor and everything to work on my craft and things of that sort.

And then it just so happened, my drum instructor opened up his drum school.

And the drum school just so happened to be in the bottom basement of a barber shop.

Oh, nice.

So I worked with him, helping him out, teaching drum lessons.

And the owner of the barber shop came to me and was like, yo, I heard you play here.

I said, yeah, you know, you got a license?

I said, yeah, I got a license.

So I showed him my work, and he said, all right, you got some skills.

There's some things you can work on, but for the most part, you can cut.

Said whenever you're not busy downstairs, man, just come up here, cut some head.

And at that time, I thought I was done.

Thought I was done cutting hair, but I needed some money.

Like I said, I was married with some kids now.

So I started slowly but surely working my way upstairs, bringing my clippers in and start cutting, you know, one client at a time, getting back into the rhythm.

And they start showing Me the different techniques to make my haircuts look more cleaner, more precise, things of that sort, to a point where their clients were starting to come to me.

So when I started to notice that, now it's time to, okay, let's brand my name.

Let's make, you know, come up with a brand.

So that's how I end up coming with P.

Dawson.

That's my brand.

Stop getting T shirts.

What else?

Towels.

And I started.

I always was the barber that set myself apart from other barbers.

So all my shirts and my apparel was so different than everyone else.

So that was my main thing.

So it just so happened one of the clients that was coming to the shop just so happened to be a manager for a celebrity artist by the name of Johnny Gill.

I know him from New Edition.

And that was one time I had me.

I was sitting here talking.

I remember saying it like it was just, that's it, man.

Maybe one day I get a chance to cut John, you know, And I'm just joking.

Well, we always say there's a little truth in the jokes, right?

But we also say you speak things into existence.

So I remember I was getting a phone call, and from his manager, he said, yo, I need you to meet me at this address.

Stop what you're doing and meet me at this address.

I said, well, I got this kind in the chair.

He's like, all right, look, I need you finish that and meet me at this address.

I need you to do a service.

Sorry.

Not a problem.

So at the time, I didn't know who I was cutting.

I thought I was cutting him, the manager.

So he gave me the address.

I made my way to the address.

It was at this hotel.

So I go to the hotel, let him know I was there.

They met me downstairs.

He said, I need you to cut my button.

So, okay, not a problem.

We go upstairs.

His buddy was Johnny Gill.

So that was my first major artist that I cut.

Nice, nice.

And it went from there to opening doors, to cutting at the Barner Brothers, cutting on the BT Awards, the Stella Awards and things of that sort.

So it just opened up so many doors after that.

That's awesome.

That's awesome.

And so when did you open up your own shop?

Like, how did that happen?

So I opened up my own shop during the pandemic.

I was working in a shop in Bowie, and I knew it was my time to leave, but I was nervous.

So when the pandemic hit, we really, you know, all the shops shut down.

And my wife asked me what I was going to do.

I said, baby, I don't know.

I said, but I can do some household and things of that sort.

She was like, yeah, but even still, that's not even safe.

I said, yeah, but that's all I know.

I'm used to working in the shop, you know, I'm used to, you know, doing things a little different.

So we have two houses.

And it just so happened the house in PD county was at the time vacant.

And she said, well, babe, once you change the house down in PG county into a barbershop.

So I thought about it.

So that was sound too bad of a.

Of an idea.

So I went and prayed on it and went to my resources, and I went to my uncle, the one who actually put the clippers in my hand.

I went to him and I told him, you know, what I was thinking about doing, and he was like, I think it's a great idea.

It just so happened I have two barber chairs.

Not using one of them.

Once you take this one until, you know, you get on your feet.

So good.

So good.

So that's how the PND grooming lounge was established during the pandemic.

Nice.

That's awesome.

How long you been teaching at Paul Mitchell?

I mean, sorry, At Temple School?

Yeah, it's Paul.

It's Paul Mitchell.

It's the Temple of Paul Mitchell partner school today.

I feel it with a Paul Mitchell.

So I've been working there three years come March 21st.

Okay.

All right.

And so how.

So how has that experience been so far?

Like, what have been your things that you've enjoyed the most, and what type of things have you found to be challenging?

Well, I enjoyed, first of all, interacting with the students.

You know, it's more than just being an instructor.

You are a mentor, you a father, you're a big brother, you're a uncle, you know, you're a counselor, you know, to these students.

And when I first got there, my why was so much different than what I really thought it was going to be.

My why is so much greater than that, man.

I just did it.

Get the information, learn how to be an instructor, teach, and I'm gonna move forward.

But no, it has gotten to a place where I feel nothing but love there.

Like I said, Charles and Sharon has been amazing.

I love them.

If they get a chance to see this, I just want y' all to know, look, I love y' all, and I thank y' all and I appreciate y' all for everything that y' all have done, but I thank you for the opportunity.

And those students are the reason why I wake up and go to work every single day.

Because the love and the passion that I bring and the love and passion that they're receiving so that way they can carry this same energy out into their salons and their barbershops as they go through their journeys.

Nice.

Nice.

So how has it been?

Like, like, you know, the, the focus of this conversation is not only to get to know you, but like get to get your perspective on, on this, on the state of the industry as it pertains to the student and the salon owners finding success.

We talked a little, we talked a little bit about pre, pre, pre, like we had a pre conversation before this and the topic about salons trying to hire and wanting the students to train and the students not wanting to train.

And like, and then like then now some students seem like they're going to, they want to train, but it's kind of like it's hard to really know exactly.

So from your perspective, what is the current, current situation going on in school?

So right now the biggest thing is the students not knowing how to market themselves outside of social media.

Okay.

They so content working with social media.

Now I'm have nothing against social media.

I have nothing against Instagram, have nothing against Facebook, TikTok, so forth and so forth.

But my thing is you also have to go out into the streets, pass out your business cards, pass out your flyers and don't stop.

They think that everything is supposed to just fall right into their lap.

They want to make this buku dollars when they get into a shop.

But when they get into the shop, they sit in their chairs and they like twitting it down, spin their thumbs up, hoping and wishing something is going to fall in their lap.

But you have to go and create that.

You have to create them.

The, the, the, the dollars don't wait for it to fall in your lap.

Everyone don't have social media.

Everyone don't have tick tock.

Everyone don't have Facebook or Instagram.

But if you make a personal go to face to face with an individual, that's what's going to stick to you the most.

Well, that's what's going to speak to them.

Give them a flyer, say hey, my name is Phil, I work in this barbershop right here.

This is what I do.

If you ever need a haircut, please come and check me out.

Then they're gonna be like, you know what?

I know where the location is, I know who the face is.

I know who gave me this.

So now I'm Taking this same flyer, I'm gonna think about it or I'm gonna go ahead and finish doing what I gotta do.

But when it's time for me to get ahead, I'm gonna remember this flyer and in the location and the person that gave this time.

Totally.

So, so are you, are you saying that if the student, if the biggest problem that you're seeing is that the students don't know how to market themselves other than social media, does that mean that you like, does that, am I.

Is it safe to assume that you're saying that because you've seen students graduate and not make it?

Like, is, like, like, does that make sense?

Like if, if I said like.

Well, I think the biggest problem was with, like that students face is not being able to market themselves or not knowing how to market themselves.

And I say this because.

Why would you say that that's the biggest.

Is it because you like.

Because I'm always wondering, like, we have this, the students are in school, but like, how much do we really track them beyond school?

And like, you know, I know that I've given my number out, you know, to every single student almost, or, or DM or, or whatever, like, tell people to hit me up.

And you know, people hit me up.

But like, I get just as many people hitting me up, asking me for advice before they graduate as I do students after they've graduated in kind of like a panic mode or like feeling like they're not gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna quit, you know, doing hair.

I mean, so I don't know, like, you know, that is the.

Not across the board, but that's my personal experience.

Like, what, what is your personal experience with, with that.

So this is one of the reasons why I got into the educational field because I was working in a barbershop and a student who had just graduated had started working in the shop that I was working in.

And the young man pretty much was trying to rely on walk ins, right?

And I told him, I said, man, you can't rely on walk ins because when it's slow and old walking is coming in, then what you want to do.

And this visual told me like, man, he felt like the walk ins are supposed to go to him and another new barber that was there at the time.

And I'm like, nah.

They said, the walking is for everybody.

The walking is for the shop.

So it's not just for you, it's not just for the other individual.

It's for everybody.

So I said, this is what you need to do.

And I said, I'm gonna do it with you because I know it works.

You get some flyers and I'm gonna get some flyers.

We're gonna go ahead and pass these out together.

So guess what?

I got my flies, he got his.

I went on past mine out.

He sat in his chair.

So I said, okay, I can show you better than I can tell you.

So I was passing out my flyers, passing on my flyers, passing on my flyers, and before you know it, people start coming in.

So he came to me one day, was like, man, how you get that person?

How you doing?

I said, they came in off my flyer.

He said, man, every time I see you, you cutting.

I said, yeah, because it's a numbers game.

If I pass out a hundred flyers, out of that hundred, I might get 20 or 10.

I gotta keep passing them out, because everyone that I pass out, that's how much I'm gonna get back.

I'm gonna get at least 20 to 10 back.

So when he started seeing it, now his light bulb went off.

And now he say, okay, let me go ahead and do that too.

But the problem was he wasn't consistent.

He got comfortable sitting in his chair, thinking he can do a little bit here, sit back in his chair, wait for it.

You know, getting that.

Now he's frustrated.

It's like you watering a plant.

I said, you put the seed in it.

That's the flyers that you passing out.

That's your seed.

Maybe you gotta water it.

Yeah, keep passing it out.

Keep passing it out.

And over time, your flowers will grow, meaning your clientele will grow.

So guess what?

We gotta.

So a question.

What are you.

Would you.

What would you say is the most important thing to students currently when they're thinking about their.

Like, after school, what are they telling you they're thinking about?

Oh, wow, you have few things.

So they trying to figure out if they want to work in a shop.

They were trying to figure out if they want to do commission versus booth rent.

They trying to figure out if they want to start from working at home, like start their own right off the break.

Now, though, I tell them, be very cautious because you can get frustrated trying to start your own.

Right off the break now you still have to build your clientele.

And again, they focus on, well, I can just promote myself and do all this content on social media, and then one day it's going to happen.

That's cool.

And may jets, you know, but also pass your flyers out.

When you go hang out with your friends and y' all go to the Little lounges or go to church or whatever in the grocery store.

Pass your business cards out, pass your flyers out.

Because guess what?

Someone's going to need a barber, someone's going to need a stylist, and they won't even know where you at.

The best place to pass them out is in your neighborhood, in your area.

Totally.

So what, what are the students who are thinking about commission versus commission versus booth rent?

What can you tell us a little bit about, like help us understand the psychology around that decision making and like.

Yeah.

Okay, so commission versus booth rent is nothing wrong with either one.

Right.

I always tell my students, let's just about to graduate freshly out that has not worked in the shop, don't have a lot of clientele.

To me, it's up to you.

But to me the best move is to go with a commission shop.

That way you can build your clientele while you learn the business at the same time.

Well, how receptive are they to that?

Do they, they're like, okay, yeah, or they're like, nah, I like being the idea.

Like do they like, they prefer this idea of a booth rent over a competitor commission or like what's their vibe on that?

I get a little bit of both, but for the most part they kind of receptive to the, the commission side.

Interesting.

So like is that different?

Has that, has that been the case the entire time you've been a teacher?

Or have you seen any changes in the students from the time you started to the time to now and what and how they think about their, their career or their future?

I definitely have seen some changes.

Oh, what are those changes?

So at one point everyone's, I'm going boot front, I'm going bootfriend, or I'm, I'm going start from my house, I'm be a mobile barber.

But when I start breaking it down and give them the, the difference between all three nowadays.

Okay, Mr.

Field, this do make sense.

Yeah, I don't, I'm, I'm working this 9 to 5 and I still got bills.

Yeah.

Because I, I don't just talk on about barber, I talk about life issues.

Right.

You know, so you still have bills.

So that means if you work into, if you work in a, in a boof ranch shop, you're not, you're not helping yourself.

You actually creating another bill to me because you got to pay that every week, not once a month, right?

Oh, I ain't think of it like that, Mr.

Field.

Yeah, but if you go to a commitment commission shop, then take a percentage but you guarantee some type of money to come to you within a week or two.

Plus you get your tips, you know, boof rent, you get your tips, you gotta separate your tips.

But then you gotta put part of your boof friend aside.

And once you pay your boof friend, then everything else is what you make.

But say you're in the shop for a whole week and you only cut one person, then what?

But if you're in a commission shop, at least you guarantee something.

Totally.

So would you say that.

So it sounds like you're saying that in the last few years you've seen a shift from students wanting to go straight into business for themselves and be their own boss, to being more receptive to going and working underneath of somebody and for somebody else as a commission operator.

Yes.

So I've definitely have seen that.

And some I'm like, hey, go for it.

If you already have the clientele you already established, hey, go for it.

I don't see why not.

Because they have the mindset of working for themselves.

I get it.

But if you do not have the clientele and you waiting until you finish school to start this, to me, it ain't gonna happen.

It's gonna take too much time.

Like I said, you still got bills.

Right?

Right.

But if you start while you in school, if you start while you're in school, then guess what?

You might just be all right on your way out the door going into a shop or going into your own.

But if you wait until after you graduate, you might want to hold tight.

Nice.

Totally.

Okay, so all right, so we're coming up on our time.

I appreciate you sharing your insights to students and sharing us with the type of communication you're having with them.

And I also just does like a last minute thing to sign off with.

What type, what piece of advice would you give to a salon owner or shop owner, like a commission based business that is trying to attract your students?

What I would say to a salon owner or business, you have to give the students, the students something for them to come to you.

Okay, give them something.

Meaning what are you offering?

Are you offering?

Okay, we want to have you come in and we want to do.

We have health insurance, life insurance, a 401k.

You know, you have to give them something.

We want to help you build your clientele, we want to help you with your supplies.

But if you just expecting to come in and off the break, you already charging on the army leg for boot rent or YouTube taking majority of the percentage off the commission, you're going to lose them.

You're going to lose them.

So my advice is to give them something so they can feel comfortable and stay for long, for a long term.

Because these students, they definitely looking for long term employment.

But you have to give them something, give them some type of incentive.

If you service this many clients, we give you a bonus.

If you serve, sell this many products, we give you this much on commission off the products.

You have to give them something.

It's interesting to hear you talk about it because we've spent so much time honing in on the fact that so many students want to go into a suite or in the business for themselves at the school.

And now we're seeing.

Now, now you're not the first teacher to tell me that they're this new class of students.

They're not.

They, they, they like the idea of being in business for themselves, but they also like the idea of working for somebody in the beginning, which is a huge shift from just before.

COVID I was going to the schools and nobody wanted to go work at a salon.

Maybe like two people out of like 40 people, like super small percentage of people wanted to work at a salon.

And now it was like.

And then like, up until like, you know, last year, it was like, well, I'll work at a salon because I have to, and.

But I'm going to go out on my own.

But it sounds like there might be even more of a shift, and correct me if I'm wrong, that, you know, students are now, you know, more.

More thinking about finding a place to work versus thinking about starting their own business.

Is that safe to say?

Or is that.

No, that's not what you're saying?

No, I'm not gonna say that.

You still have some students out there that's like, yo, I'm gonna go into a suite, you know, and that's cool, go into a suite.

But guess what?

You still gotta build your clientele.

If you, if you don't have a strong clientele, you won't.

You gonna fall short on that suite.

But if you work in a salon that's treating you right, then you might just be okay, and you can build your way up into a suite.

You know, build your clientele, get a nice good following.

I always tell my clients, and I even say this to my own self, you want to have yourself at least 100 clients, build yourself to 100 clients.

If you build yourself to 100 clients, you're going to be all right, you're going to be straight.

So would you.

So you would, would you say that there's been not really a big change in the students that really, like, they still all want to be.

The majority of them want to be in business for themselves, Most likely.

Most of them, yes.

They want to be.

At some point, they want to be in business for themselves.

Okay.

But you have very few who is like, you know what?

I don't want to do the business.

I ain't got time to deal with the overhead.

I don't want to deal with the people.

I'd rather work in a salon or a barbershop, and I just, you know, be good with that.

But like I said, as a barbershop owner or salon owner, you got to treat your people right.

You treat your people right, you got them for a long ho.

Awesome.

All right, well, thank you so much for taking the time.

I appreciate you and share and take.

I appreciate your time.

I appreciate your insight, and I look forward to talking to you again in the future, man.

Once again, Rob, thank you for having me.

I really enjoy, man.

I would love to come back.

If you want me to come back, man.

We can talk about something else, man.

Cigars and booze or something.

Yeah, that sounds good.

I'm sure I'll see you soon.

Definitely, man.

Thank you again.

All right, man.

Have a good one.

I'll see you later.

Peace.