00:00:00 Shreya: What if the thing you have been calling low energy or random inflammation is not random at all, but your body trying to communicate through patterns, your gut, your immune system, your nervous system, basically having a group chat with you. Today, we are getting curious about what regulation can actually look like in real life and why nourishment is more than food. It's information.

00:00:30 Shreya: Welcome back to Wellness Reimagined where we slow down the wellness joins and reveal something more honest, more integrated, and more sustainable. I'm your host, Shreya, and today I'm joined by Jenna Djamal, a certified nutritionist specialist focused on functional nutrition and gut health. Our topic is nervous system regulation, gut and immune health and nourishment, and what it looks like to support your body when symptoms like feel complex or confusing. If you have ever thought I am doing everything right, so why do I still feel off? Then this episode is for you. Welcome, Jenna. I'm honored to have you on my show.

00:01:11 Jana Jamail: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.

00:01:15 Shreya: And like, before we go into the technical parts, like, what is a moment you remember where you realized, oh, the body is not being dramatic. It's being specific.

00:01:28 Jana Jamail: So I would say over the last four years, this isn't going to be super specific, but it kind of has an aha moment. Since the pandemic, I have just seen so many symptoms just growing and growing people, getting immune illnesses, getting autoimmune diseases, people having weird hormonal imbalances, and at the same time, we're seeing more connected more than we've ever been. We have more news cycles than we've ever had. We have more no more social media connection than we've ever had. And I've seen this weird rise where the more connected we are, which should be a positive thing, is actually resulting in a lot more symptoms. And so my aha moment has been anytime I'm working with someone who says, I've tried everything, I've gone to every doctor, they tell me I'm fine, but I don't feel fine. And then they tell me what their lifestyle is. And it's often it's what we're metabolizing mentally that's actually bringing up so many illnesses that are coming out physically.

00:02:25 Shreya: Yes. I think that's such an important reframe. Like symptoms are signals and not as personal failures.

00:02:34 Jana Jamail: Absolutely.

00:02:36 Shreya: And what is one of the most common misconception you see about nervous system regulation? Like the kind of advice people repeat that sounds nice but doesn't really hold up in real life.

00:02:50 Jana Jamail: So my background is applied neuroscience and nutrition. And so what I often see is the medical industry wanting to silo our body, right? It's we work on heart health, but maybe we're not working on gut health. We work on brain health, but maybe we're not working on liver health. So we like to kind of look at the body as spliced up little pieces. But unfortunately, that's not what the body is. It's a huge network that's interconnected and it's constantly talking to with each other and it's constantly moving. And so often what I see is people are going, well, I'm going to therapy, but you're eating processed food. You don't go outside, you don't enjoy a positive lifestyle. Or maybe you do eat properly, you do all the right things, but you are in chronic stress and you're doom scrolling at night. And so you can eat all the great protein and complex carbs and dark leafy greens, but you're living on tick tock and you are terrified and you are in an anxiety spiral. And so what we're often not doing is looking at everything as a whole, looking at what are we doing with our lifestyle, what are we doing with food? What are we metabolizing through not just the environment, but through social media as well? And so we often silo everything when it is a whole group project.

00:04:09 Shreya: Yes. And like when someone being told, just relax for years, then what does it actually cost them emotionally and physically to keep hearing that it is.

00:04:22 Jana Jamail: So I feel like that is such an awful thing to say to someone. Just relax. Just it's like saying to someone who's angry, just calm down. Well, if they could calm down, they would be calm. If they could relax, they would relax. People don't need to be told what to do. They need to be told how to do it. And so being told constantly, you know, if you would just get out of this stress or if you would just take a few things off of your plate, you would feel a whole lot better. Most people don't know how to do that, especially women. Women have kids. We have jobs, we have partners. There's so many things going on in our lives. What are we supposed to drop? We can't drop our kids. We can't drop our job. Now we're going to drop our partner. What are we supposed to drop? And so that is not helpful in any way, right? So instead of being told, just relax, which honestly probably puts you in more of a stress cycle because now you have a laundry list of things to do. Plus make sure you relax. At the end of the day, you're never going to get there. So what's more helpful is one, what can you offload to a community? Do you have a village of people around you that could help you? Could you offload one thing to them? That's one. If that causes a guilt trip in you, I don't recommend doing it. But number two, something I highly recommend to clients is have a cut off time every single night. So if it's seven o'clock, eight o'clock, whatever the time is, no matter what, work does not exist at that time. I really hope your children are in bed at that time. Your partner. Maybe you sit and have tea with your partner at that time. Maybe you just have reading time for yourself, but you literally disconnect from all of it and you have a straight cut off time. The other thing I highly recommend is do not should on yourself. Most people just thought I said a swear word. I did not, I said the word should, but what a lot of us do is think I should be finishing this project. I should be making the kids lunch for tomorrow. I should be finishing and you can input whatever it is. Stop shooting yourself. If you were going to do that thing, you would have done that thing. So if you haven't done that thing today, it's not important for today and it's not part of your seven or eight o'clock cut off time, right? So if we do things like that, like we have tools in that way we can change our mindset. All of a sudden we have more time in the day. Things change a little bit, but just being told relax does absolutely nothing for you except make you more stressed out.

00:06:44 Shreya: I think that that's really beautiful because calm down is it's not a plan. It's often just another way people feel unheard.

00:06:53 Jana Jamail: Absolutely. And especially in the medical community, we can feel unheard so often. I mean, how many times has someone gone to a doctor and said, I have hot flashes at night? I don't feel good. I'm irritable, I'm always hungry. There's something wrong with me. And then they run some labs. They look at your hormones and they're like, no, you're completely normal. Well, that's not what your body is saying. And so we need to focus on what is the body saying, not just what are the blood labs saying and then sending people on their way?

00:07:23 Shreya: Yes. And also, when you look at brain gut health through a functional lens, what are the deeper patterns you tend to notice first, especially in people with chronic symptoms.

00:07:36 Jana Jamail: Okay, so let's say someone has leaky gut. So that's kind of just a general term that we use in the nutrition world, but it pretty much means you have loose stool, your stomach is hurting things that you thought you could eat all the time, all of a sudden, and you have no idea why this is happening. And it's really frustrating. So most people think, okay, that's just a gut issue, but it's not because it's actually showing. We have inflammation in the gut and your gut and your brain talk all day long. They talk through the vagus nerve. So if you have inflammation in your gut, well, that's traveling to your brain. So you could be feeling brain fog, you could be feeling fatigued, you could be irritable. You can just feel like I'm not myself. And I don't know why. And it's directly related to that gut health and that your gut lining is just not stable. And so if you, if you're someone who has chronic constipation or you're someone who just, you never have a formed stool that is actually affecting your brain, that can actually promote depression, that can promote neuroinflammation, that can change how your mitochondria is signaling in your brain. And so kind of like I mentioned before, how medicine sometimes silos the different parts of the body. We can't do that because the gut is the second brain and it is a complete direct network to your actual brain. And so we have to consider the whole instead of just one or the other. And chronically, if you have autoimmune diseases, that's also affecting your brain, that's also affecting your brain health, that can come out as sleep disturbances and then mood disturbances. So anxiety or depression. So there's a lot that goes into how your, your body is just constantly talking with itself.

00:09:16 Shreya: And also like if someone is stuck in a loop, like bloating, skin flare ups, fatigue, or frequent colds, then how do you think about the nervous system and immune system in the same story rather than separate problems?

00:09:31 Jana Jamail: Yeah. So if I have someone who's coming to me and they're constantly sick, their gut is killing them. They don't feel well. My first thought is, are your detox pathways open? Detox is huge for the brain as well. Because you remember, the brain has its own immune system. And so we have to think about the body's immune system. The gut has its own immune system. The brain has its own immune system. And the detox pathways are so vital for all of that. And if you're in chronic stress, well, you're also dampening all of those immune systems. And so when I think of someone who's coming to me with these, my first thought is, let's open up your detox pathways, let's stabilize your gut and let's get your liver moving. Because what most people don't know is the liver creates bile. Bile is really important for astrocyte health, which that's part of the brain's immune system. And if your astrocytes aren't healthy, you can actually get more depressive symptoms. So we want to make sure you have enough bile going because it does actually help with neurotransmitter production in the gut. So that's that's one place I start. I also make sure do we have the foundations for having a good immune system? Do we have all of the good vitamins A, C, D, E, K? Do we have zinc? Do we have some selenium? Are we just doing the bare basics? Because typically if someone is having gut issues, they're not absorbing any of their nutrients properly. So I also have to look at that once we get there, if that person is still chronically stressed, then I know, okay, the environment is contributing to this. So now we have to change from going just nutritionally to neuroscience. But the fun part about doing the neuroscience in this is something I love. We're not just sitting there going, okay, let's do some box breathing. We're literally thinking, how can we turn off your left hemisphere, which is where anxiety can really ruminate. And let's turn on your right hemisphere, which is the right now hemisphere. That's a little bit of a separation. And any neuroscientist listening to this will say that is not exactly true. But for the average population, this is going to make sense. So then I start thinking, how do we get creative? How can we do something to turn off that left hemisphere? Because you cannot be creative and be an anxiety at the exact same time. You can't be stressed out at the exact same time. So I think of, you know, what, what was exciting for that person when they were a kid? Did they love science? Did they love baking? Did they love coloring? Did they love running around outside? I take that and then we build on it. So then I go, I want you to go on a hike. I want you to find this many birds. I want you to think about the sounds that you hear, the smells that you smell, what you see when you engage, that you're in the right. Now, the left hemisphere can't be in stress. So then we're calming you down. We're deregulating your nervous system. So now your body can start absorbing things easier and your brain can take a break. You can do this anywhere. You can sit in a chair. You can imagine the most beautiful sunset you've ever seen. And then just go through your senses. You can think of, oh, if you love baking, maybe you saw something great on The Great British Baking Show or Bake Off, as they call it in England. we call it the baking show in the US. Um, was there a cake that you thought that would be phenomenal? I would love to make that myself. And then is it chocolate? How many tears is it? What does it smell like? What would it be like to make that? And in 30s, you've now downregulated your nervous system and your left hemisphere has calmed down and you are in the right now.

00:12:52 Shreya: I love that framing. Like one body, one ecosystem, not a set of disconnected issues like, okay, so if, if that, if that is the pattern. Oh, and how does it actually show up in day to day if this is the kind of pattern?

00:13:09 Jana Jamail: Yeah. So let's say we have that same person. They have this awful gut health. We've really got to work on their liver health. And so we got to work on their brain health. We kind of have this trifecta of detox going on, right? So let's say we're doing all the right things. Um, they're taking the right supplements, they're eating the right foods if they're feeling better, if they've started, you know, working on their deregulating that left hemisphere working on that right hemisphere. They're going to be less irritable. They're going to have a lot more patience. They're going to have more bandwidth. Things that bothered them before aren't really going to bother them as much anymore. They're going to notice that they're not so annoyed when they're driving their car in traffic. They're going to notice that the phone call, maybe with their mom, that really upsets them. It's not so upsetting. They're going to think, oh, that's just my mom. That's just who she is. So it can show up in ways like that. Also, if you're calming that nervous system by working on things again, like getting creative, if you're like, I really want to learn to crochet, you are spending all this time learning to crochet. And that's frustrating for a lot of people. But that's right. Hemisphere frustration not left hemisphere frustration. You're going to notice all of that energy is on that in your brain. Just got a break. And your gut might feel a whole lot better. The pain that you might feel when you're digesting, you might notice that's gone. now. You're not having that as much anymore because everybody's talking and then you might. The worst part of this experience is you might get a little addicted to the right hemisphere activity and think, I just want to crochet all day. I don't want to do all the left hemisphere things. And so then you have to kind of parcel it out where it's like, okay, I my cutoff is eight o'clock. I'm going to do my crocheting from eight to ten or whatever time it is that you really like. Also, some people tell me doing crochet is like the greatest meditative experience of their life. So that is why I chose crochet as a topic. Um, but it has direct connection to your liver health, to your gut health. All of a sudden that pain is gone, your immune system is strengthened, you're noticing different areas of your life are just getting easier and better and things are calming down. That inflammation is deregulating.

00:15:19 Shreya: That's amazing. And also like when you say nourishment, uh, what do you want people to understand beyond macros and meal plans, like what counts as nourishment in a brain gut immune approach.

00:15:35 Jana Jamail: So nourishment is different for everyone, right? I think everyone thinks if I get, you know, if I eat enough protein, if I have one hundred and fifty grams of carbohydrates, everyone's different. Everybody needs something completely different. So what I've found is there's a lot of things with intuitive eating, right? Your brain really will tell you what it wants, but finding focus and balance. So I think of a lot of things like look for colors that you really want to have in your day. If you're noticing that you really want purple foods, I want you to have purple foods. One of the number one ways I start with people isn't overhauling their entire diet. It's choosing one new thing to add to their plate a week. So maybe it's turkey because turkey is really healthy for liver function. Maybe it's dark leafy greens because we're just not getting enough vitamin K, maybe we're adding blueberries, maybe we're adding more red foods. Maybe it's just herbs and spices and we just need to change some of the plate. So you really want to go towards what feels good, and your brain's going to tell you that if you're constantly going to the exact same thing, typically that's a nervous system response, saying, I need something to calm me down. It's not the brain saying, I need this as nourishment, because the brain likes a huge variety and it loves colors. And so beyond just the protein and the macros, that's important. And people who are under eating, they do need help in those areas, but it's mostly kind of going back to something that's primitive and it's what does the brain really want? And it's colors, it's fiber, and it's that level of nourishment. And it's mostly antioxidants as well, which is what gives everything all of that color.

00:17:14 Shreya: I really appreciate that. Like it is very simple, consistent, supportive. It's not very extreme, not punishing because sustainability is a nervous system. And I think our nervous system also needs that. Right.

00:17:29 Jana Jamail: Absolutely. I mean, I can't tell you the amount of clients who come to me and say, I don't eat this because my cousin told me it was bad for me. So now I can only eat certain types of eggs and I also can't. I mean, the laundry list of things they can't eat. And I just think, well, that's no way to live. I mean, so my job is actually to expand everything you can eat and stop limiting. And I think many people look at the wellness industry or even just nutrition in general and think, I'm going to funnel this down to what you can and can't have. And that's not what I want to do. I want to expand your world. And if I'm, if you're with a nutritionist who's not expanding your world and they're making it smaller, that's really not what food is. Food's community food is emotional regulation. Food is enjoyable. Food is so many things to us as humans. And if we're minimizing it to just fuel and only certain types of fuel, well, that's not a good relationship with food either. And so we really want to make sure we have a good relationship with food.

00:18:31 Shreya: Yes. And also when some symptoms return, like a flare up after travel, stress, poor sleep. How do you help someone interpret that without spiraling into I failed thinking?

00:18:46 Jana Jamail: Yeah. So I often see a lot of people who, if they travel and they have gut issues, I actually see a lot of them might have issues with gluten. And so then there's great probiotics. I'll. Saccharomyces boulardii is actually what's recommended for people to take if you're going to travel. So it just helps kind of regulate the immune response in the gut, which is really what we want to do before traveling because traveling is very disruptive. A lot of people are excited to travel. They can't wait to go. Oxygen changes when you're traveling. Hydration changes when you're traveling. Your system is shifting constantly. When you're traveling, you're coming up with new experiences that are both exciting and also they're leaving your system guessing. So your amygdala is actually on more often when you're traveling. Doesn't mean it's a bad thing. It's just how your body is changing. That can send a signal to your gut that, hey, we're not okay. We are not seeing the status quo here. This is not our normal schedule. And so it can be disruptive. So a lot of the time, I do recommend adding a probiotic a week before that Saccharomyces boulardii and then take it while you're traveling and then take it a week after and then you can stop it. But most of the clients I see that have this, they actually have celiac disease or a really big sensitivity to gluten. And we, when we address that sensitivity, they often don't have as big of an issue when they're traveling. And so it's also so that's an immune function. So we just look at how are we supporting the immune system before they're going. And you might have traveler's anxiety. There's a ton of people who do. And again, this probiotic kind of helps regulate the gut immune system. If you do have anxiety. And for those people, I really do recommend box breathing and doing that little thirty second imagination where you're sitting there, maybe you're on a plane. You hate flying. I am this person, by the way. I hate flying. And I sit there and I imagine my favorite hike I take every single day. I imagine looking up at the trees. What are the green leaves look like with the sun coming through? What am I hearing? What birds do I normally hear? And in 10s my nervous system is calmed down.

00:20:50 Shreya: I think that that's the shift. It it, uh, it's like less control and more connection. It's less urgency and more like listening. And for the person who is listening and who feels exhausted, like they have tried everything and their body still feels unpredictable, what is one question you would invite them to sit with this week? And, uh, that they could soften the fight and open a new door for themselves?

00:21:19 Jana Jamail: I would really look at what does your life look like? How are you filling up your life? I wouldn't even start with food. I would think about what is your lifestyle like? Are you a go go go, go go person? You have to have your whole calendar full. I mean, you're literally falling into bed at the end of the day. And then I would sit down and go, does that feel good in my body? Or am I the person who I don't have anything on my calendar and I miss my friends and I'm not interacting. How does that feel in my body? Because a lot of this is if you're taking care of yourself, if you're looking at your own habits and you're clued into and this is again, going to be a gut response, how does it feel in my gut, what my schedule is like, what my job is like, what my friends are like, how I interact with my family. How does that feel? And if you get that big pang in your gut, your body signaling to you, this is not it. This is not what I want to be doing. And then you can go down that path of going, why not? The other thing that I have noticed is really helpful with clients is noticing what you lie to yourself about. You don't have to tell anyone else it. But if you start writing down what you lie to yourself about or what you lie about to other people. Maybe it's so you can get out of doing things. Just notice why and you'll start noticing. Are you living the way you want to be living? And that can even be doom scrolling on Instagram. Are you lying to yourself that you're enjoying your time on Instagram and TikTok? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe this is actually your source of anxiety because you're in a huge anxiety spiral because it never ends on social media. You should get more news and more news and more information and more opinions and more trolls and more comments. I mean, the more is just constant. Our brains really aren't designed for that. So then you can think, is that good for me? Is that something I enjoy? If I started limiting that to ten minutes a day and adding in, crocheting, reading, walking, drinking a lovely cup of tea, well, how does that feel in my body? So it's more the question of does this feel good to me and am I lying to myself or am I lying about other things? Why am I doing that? What am I protecting? Typically, when you get in there, you can start filtering out other things. And yes, they're still going to be if you have gut health issues, they're still going to be gut health issues that need to be addressed. But a lot of this is psychological as well. I don't know if that was one thing that might have been a multitude of things, but I really tried to layer that to three, maybe.

00:23:47 Shreya: Yes, that is amazing. What do you like the way the way you explained it? It just made it simple to understand. And if there is one takeaway from today's conversation, I think that is regulation and nourishment are not about being perfect. They are about helping your body feel safe enough to heal.

00:24:06 Jana Jamail: And just to give you an idea, if you're in perfection, we're in the left hemisphere. We are not in the right hemisphere of right now. So we want to switch over to. It's never going to be perfect, so let's not even try there.

00:24:19 Shreya: Yes. And this is truly, truly a very amazing, very insightful conversation. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, your wisdom, your insights with us. And if after this, my listeners want to connect with you and want to learn more about you, then what's the best way?

00:24:35 Jana Jamail: Yeah. So they can go to my website, it's w w w dot com. I have a blog there. I have case studies there. All the research I've published is there. So if you're interested, you want to know more. That's a great place to go.

00:24:50 Shreya: Yes. And I'll make sure to attach all these details and links below so that the listeners can find them easily and get in touch with you. And for my listeners, if this conversation made you in a tender place, just take a break with that. You don't have to solve your whole body in a week. Start with one supportive choice, one small act of nourishment, one moment of listening instead of pushing. This is the wellness reimagined. I'm Shreya and wherever you are in your healing today, may you feel a little more informed, a little more compassionate with yourself and a little less alone. We'll see you in the next one. And do not forget to hit the follow button. Subscribe and feel free to share your thoughts because your ears deserve premium content. Thank you.