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Keynote: The Future of This Week Health Shows with Drex, Sarah, and Bill

Bill Russell: [00:00:00] Today on Keynote

Drex DeFord: (Intro) are you gonna give them the resources to run the shop the way that they need to run the shop to make you the system that you dream of being?

Then I think you have to put the money on the table

Bill Russell: My name is Bill Russell. I'm a former CIO for a 16 hospital system and creator of This Week Health, where we are dedicated to transforming healthcare one connection at a time. Our keynote show is designed to share conference level value with you every week.

Now, let's jump right into the episode.

(Main) All right. It's keynote for July 31st. Is it really? July 31st? I dunno it's sometime at the end of July. We'll see, actually we're recording this before that. We would never record on the day of our production team would kill us, but today. I have Drex DeFord, the Honorable Drex DeFord and the lovely Sarah Richardson who have joined us for what will be my last live keynote [00:01:00] until.

September until our kickoff of our new stuff in September. So, I'm glad to be doing this with you. All We're gonna talk a little bit about the new stuff we have coming out. We're gonna talk a little bit about, I don't know, we'll play some games talk about CIO salaries. That's always a fun little topic to talk about.

We will do some other things, give people a little chance to experience the change we are anticipating for our shows and to give people a little sneak peek into what we're gonna be doing in September. So, welcome y'all. How you doing?

Drex DeFord: I'm doing fine. We're in Minneapolis right now, so today, tonight.

In a few hours we'll do Minneapolis City :through our dinner. And then tomorrow we're in Chicago. So if people look back over their calendar, they might be able to figure out about when we're actually recording this. But

Bill Russell: They'll have to do a lot of research. And Sarah, you know what I love about Sarah?

No matter where she is, she's smiling and she's in her happy place 'cause it looks like she's, with all of her stuff in her room. But I know [00:02:00] she's in a similar place to you.

Sarah Richardson: That's because you told me when I started that I had to have branding that looked the same no matter where I went, and I'm the only one who does that.

Well, I call home instructions even though most people would not know me for that being one of my superpowers.

Bill Russell: Well, drex nice bed in the background.

Drex DeFord: I do what I can, the decoration of the room really. Uh.

Bill Russell: You know what I find the hardest of doing Zoom calls in hotel rooms is the lighting.

Sarah Richardson: Oh yeah. It's terrible.

Bill Russell: Yeah. Well, yeah, clearly the window's coming in that way for you and drex, you have light coming from all different directions. Thanks for joining me. I know you guys are getting ready to go over to the city tour dinner. I love the city tour dinners because you just get loaded up with information on what's going on at health systems.

I just finished a couple phone calls with CIOs today and it's interesting, everything from a new CEO that's always an adventure. Have you guys ever gone through a new CEO as a [00:03:00] CIO? You're both shaking your heads. How did that go? It was hard, wasn't it?

Sarah Richardson: It was hard except that it happened after.

Look,

Bill Russell: It couldn't have gone any worse than it did for me. I mean, but it, I mean, quite frankly, I'm a former CIO of a 16 hospital system because of a CIO change or a CEO change ceo. Yeah. I don't know if yours was worse than that, but that's how bad mine was.

Drex DeFord: There's a new person coming in.

There's probably some opportunity where they want to have their own person. They may tell you that in advance. They may not they may overtly tell you that, or they might just make life kind of miserable until you decide that this is a good time for you to, look for a new gig. It's unpredictable.

You don't know what's gonna happen when there's a change at the top.

Bill Russell: And you really just have to feel that out. You have to ask questions. It's almost like you're starting a new job with a new leader like that. Alright, well, hey, I want to talk about what we're gonna be doing here in September.

So, September we're gonna be relaunching everything. This show will be now be known as Keynote with Bill [00:04:00] Russell. So it will be me 52 times a year. You will hear from me talking to somebody healthcare leader predominantly from health systems. But we'll we'll go outside of that from time to time.

And we'll focus on strategy execution from the CIO perspective. We'll continue to add spots to it. We've now started our CIO escape room, which I enjoy a lot. Reed was sort of the Guinea pig for this. And I went on further and I did it with Alan as well.

So I'll give you a, a little, a little taste of it. So, for Reed, I think I gave him oh. Your EHR vendor just went out of business and they've given you I was nice. I said they gave you six months to get off the platform. That's your CIO escape room. How are you gonna escape?

And he went through how he was going to escape that. I'm not asking you to answer that question. I'm asking like what other escape like would you put in front of A CIO and say, Hey, figure this one out.

Sarah Richardson: Okay. [00:05:00] So I would go out a bit on a limb and say. This organization hired a CIO from outside of healthcare for myriad reasons, and the person that they hired has historically come from an industry where their investment level and technology was about 10% of revenue.

They forgot to ask that question and the interview process, and now they've been given the budget directive for next year, and the average it spend is 2.5%. So they have to get there from there.

Bill Russell: that's definitely very challenging to say the least. I think the budget one I gave to Alan Smith. Alan is the CIO over at LifePoint Health out of tennessee, and I think I gave him that, you've been given a 20% budget cut and how do you ensure things continue to function?

And his answer was good. I was really impressed. I and actually I, of the reason for doing this is to hear their thinking as [00:06:00] opposed to, Hey, tell me all the things that are going on at your health system. How do they think through problems? How do they, how do they, uh, how do they navigate them?

Drex, do you have one that we can throw out to CIOs? I mean, I

Drex DeFord: think mine probably has something to do with cybersecurity. It's three o'clock in the morning, you just got called. You've been breached. What do you do for the first 60 minutes? Or something like that. Just, I mean, maybe they have a plan, maybe they don't have a plan.

Maybe this is the unfortunate situation. When you ask them that question, they have to admit. I don't know. Well,

Bill Russell: well, should I give 'em the escape room before they come on the show? Or should I wait until they get on the show?

Drex DeFord: I think you wait. I think, well, I mean, a lot of it is just maybe, depending on the question, but some of it, kind of the spur of the moment is the, it's an emergency.

Bill Russell: I don't want to get too close to home. Hey You know, a new CEO just stepped in and blah, blah, blah. How do you, and they sit there and go I really can't talk about this because just, and you really

Drex DeFord: don't like the new CEO. Like, give a really up scenario.

Bill Russell: Oh my God, that would be too much fun.

So anyway, that's Keynote. That's what we're gonna be doing with [00:07:00] Keynote Sarah, we're launching, you're gonna get your own channel. Like each one of these is gonna be its own channel, on is it Apple Podcasts now and on Spotify,

Drex DeFord: wherever you get your podcast, wherever you get your podcast, wherever your podcast.

Bill Russell: So you're gonna be able to search Bill Russell, stretch to Fort Sarah Richardson and find our shows. Yeah, this used to be one of our problems, like people would say, nobody

Sarah Richardson: knows on two channels. Nobody knew where to find us.

Bill Russell: Nobody knew where to find us. Well, now they'll know. They could just search for our names.

So Sarah, tell us what you're gonna be doing with, uh, with your channel.

Sarah Richardson: I love what we're doing with Flourish. So Flourish will still have a long format show every month, which will be like a deep dive into like a career conversation with allotted industry expert. But then there's so much content and so many great conversations occurring out there.

From our town hall format and from other aspects of what we do that we are gonna do Flourish soundbites. So I'll be doing 20 minute spot interviews on different topics with industry experts as well. And so that'll be more digestible, like your commute to and from. You can listen to a couple of those. And then when we're at events or other aspects, we'll have five and seven minute little soundbites that we'll [00:08:00] tackle as well if there's something of great interest.

So it gets to mix up all the different things that we're hearing about in real time. So. Long format will be the staple, but then we'll have sound bites as often as there is content and ideas to be recording. So some months you might have two or three or four, and sometimes you might have more. So looking forward to be able to hear more voices in our industry and that expands from, the people that are working their way up through the system to those that have like retired and made it into legacy status.

So I cover the gamut of the career journey and I'm grateful we get to do that with flourish.

Bill Russell: Absolutely. And by the way, happy birthday. That

Sarah Richardson: was yesterday, but thank you.

Bill Russell: I know, but I just

Sarah Richardson: now they

Drex DeFord: really know when it

Sarah Richardson: is.

Bill Russell: Yeah, now they do. They do know when it was.

Sarah Richardson: And I'm really 51, so no matter. Thank you.

Zoom filter.

Bill Russell: So, so Drex UnHackack, you're gonna go in a different direction and just talk about governance. Is that right?

Drex DeFord: So we're only gonna talk, no, I'm just kidding. UnHack will stay. Largely the same. It's been a giant experiment since I got here. Exactly how I wanted and what I wanted to do.

With UnHack hack, I've kind of picked up on a little bit of a pattern now with doing two CISOs at the [00:09:00] same time. And that can be kind of fun because often I sort of picked up that relationship at summits or at city tour dinners, and you see people who really like each other or connect with each other.

And so I can bring them both into the show at the same time. Essentially the platform kind of continues to be the same, the people process and technology that do the cyber security that protects patients and families. So it'll still be that there's some little spinoffs I'm doing inside of that. I've kind of personally gotten into synthetic media lately. And so I've done a show called UnFake, which will be part of the UnHack the podcast series, and that is about all of the deep fake stuff that's happening right now. There's some really incredible stuff. I've talked about some of the stuff that's happening with the North Koreans. I have a show that I'm working on right now that is actually.

Maybe I shouldn't give it. I'll give it away a little bit. There's a band that has topped the charts in Spotify. Very impressive really cool sounding band. Turns out the band is fake. The music is fake, the [00:10:00] instruments are fake. And that has actually driven some decisions by

some of the music uh, offering services to think twice about how they allow music to be placed on their platforms. So it's amazing because when you hear the songs, they're actually really Velvet

Sarah Richardson: sundown. Is that the one you've been following? Oh, sundown.

Drex DeFord: Yeah. That's it.

Sarah Richardson: Same, that It's crazy.

They literally have millions of followers. Yeah. And they're fake.

Bill Russell: It is.

Sarah Richardson: They're synthetic. I love that. Synthetic.

Bill Russell: How are they gonna do a concert? We could be them. Like we could go out

Drex DeFord: on tour. Well, I mean, this is a thing, bill. You could sit down and with the right prompt, you could build your own band and you could get your own million downloads.

That's the whole point. It's the good, the bad and the ugly of synthetic media. There's a lot of good things it can do. But there's also, the, it's like with every other piece of tech, the tech itself isn't good or bad. It's the way that it's used that is good and bad.

And I talk about both [00:11:00] the good and the bad side of synthetic media.

Bill Russell: I love that you're playing with, that. Our production team is playing with that. I've played with it as well. I just, every time my production team sends me something, I'm like feels to me like it's still about a year away. I mean, for the video, the audio, you could do all sorts of stuff,

Drex DeFord: So that continuous shot is a problem today, but you just think about the stuff that's happened with Google VO and some of the other technology just in the last six months, the advancements that have happened so quickly. I think we're, I'm with you. I mean, I don't know that we're six months or a year away from just being able to, you think I can't help, might

Bill Russell: be 15 days away with the pace at which things are going.

Drex DeFord: You never know. You never know like what somebody is gonna release next Monday. So

Bill Russell: let's see we're gonna do a today show once in a while too, right? The three of us we're gonna do Newsday as well. So I, we, I didn't let everything out of the bag, but our Newsday show will now be a lot like this.

It'll be the three of us, except [00:12:00] talking about the headlines. And actually, we might as well give people a flavor of that. I'll head over to, here's a good one from Becker's. CIO's tech wishlist, what IT leaders would buy with a blank check. And they have a bunch of people in here who have said what they would buy with a blank check.

More curious what you guys would do if you were still in your role as CIO and you were given a blank check. A blank check what's the thing you would buy?

Drex DeFord: I would probably take the great hard look at the modernization of the infrastructure that we have in place is if I had the opportunity to look at my health system and say, I'm gonna empty everything out and start over again. Build it from scratch the way it should be built, what really should be here on-prem, what should be off.

In the cloud or in a service provider's bucket, I'd probably look at that and spend my money building the infrastructure platform for the future of my health system.

Bill Russell: I like that. Sarah, what are your thoughts?

Sarah Richardson: I would invest [00:13:00] in a true hardcore enterprise data platform with realtime, I think health system connectivity in the backbone of all that.

And you're gonna say, oh, those things already exist. I'm like, oh no. But if you could unlock everything else, if you had like unified, realtime, trusted data, and we all know how messy all the data is, and then you can pull in the AI components, you can pull in the pop health, you can pull in all the operational metrics, patient engagement, all that stuff hits walls today.

But I would do it cloud native, like in a, that kind of a lake house, I guess I would say. I would integrate EHR and non EHR, so devices, wearables, et cetera. Revenue cycle, staffing, a mixture. Everybody understands the democratization of the data, so you had the right self-service analytics, predictive modeling, even the orchestration of care to a degree, and then have it.

Stream real time. So you could have all those information and dashboards that are making real time decisions. And I think the bonus, this is a nod to drex. I tie in governance and make sure that access models and the cross-functional adoption are all there. [00:14:00] So ROI is a real story, but all of those pieces would be.

They'd be safe, they would be governed, they would be utilized, et cetera. And so you ditch the miscellaneous nine columns in your data fields and the things that just get stuck everywhere. And then I wouldn't have to fight with my CFO to fund the data program because often. CFO will say, well, it's already been stood up.

Why are we spending so much money on it? Well, 'cause that's everything that runs inclusive of AI and anything else, all that data has to be perfectly right. Let's make sure we take the time and money to get it perfectly right.

Bill Russell: I'm going between two things. One is building new data centers and upgrading all the cracks in PDU's.

Or the second would be updating all the AV equipment and all the conference rooms. I really I'm struggling between those two things. So a good AV man, that would be yeah, be awesome. And the more advanced it got, the more challenging it got to troubleshoot. And if you were ever in that

Drex DeFord: room Oh, did [00:15:00] you?

They wanted fix it help desk guy. You were always the person who they looked to fix it.

Bill Russell: Oh man. I jest, but when I went into St. Joe's, the first thing. That my team came to me and said, Hey, we need to spend $4 million on PDs and crack units. Yeah. And I'm like, I can't, I cannot go to the board for the first time and say, look, 4 million bucks, I need crack units.

They're gonna look at me like. First of all, no one knows what you're talking about. And so their minds just start to wander. It's like it

Drex DeFord: sounds good though. Yeah. Crack unit. Yeah.

Bill Russell: And for those who don't know computer room air conditioners. Exactly. It's just short for that. No. If I were, if I had a blank check.

I'd be looking at automation in a big way. And it actually touches on what both of you talked about. It would touch on the architecture. I talked to a chief Information Security and Technology Officer today.

And I was asking him about his environment and something he was excited about and he was talking about. Patching and patching [00:16:00] isn't all that sexy. It isn't all that exciting, but they've gotten patching to the point where they're doing it within an hour of notification. And I thought, that is sexy.

In this world? That's really powerful. And I said, well, how you doing it? And sure enough it's a level of automation that would allude many health systems because they still need to do a lot of the backend work to enable that level of automation,

Drex DeFord: understanding what they have.

And then the other part is the, it's a lot of patching if you do it, there's also a big prioritization process. So it's a lot of that kind of thinking around problems. Like I don't have to patch everything. I have to patch the things that are actually important or exposed. Yeah, because some people just.

We're gonna brute force everything.

Bill Russell: This is how much of a slacker I was. I was trying to get our team to 30 days of patching things, like 30 days post. And this was servers. I mean, this isn't like

Drex DeFord: Yeah. And not everything.

Bill Russell: And and I [00:17:00] felt like I was driving hard to get them to a 30 day patch window on servers.

And this person was telling me, 60 minutes. I was like, yes. That's beautiful.

Sarah Richardson: Look how long it took us to get there because we all did that. We all had to chase the tickets, create the dashboard that showed how long tickets have been open, segment the network to be able to have things that were cordoned off because of the FDA and so many med devices.

I mean, think of how much orchestration it was to have a healthy patching plan even 20 years ago, 10 years ago.

Bill Russell: All right we'll have a little fun with this one. If you were on the hiring committee, you were brought in as an advisor to a health system, I'll do something I know.

16 hospital system. Three states headquartered in Southern California. What are you gonna recommend to the hiring board or a compensation package for the CIO? I mean, do you base the compensation based on where the headquarters is? I think you do.

Sarah Richardson: If you require the person to be there, and I'm gonna just be very honest, if [00:18:00] you're running a health system, you better be on site every day.

Yeah. My 2 cents. Right. Sorry. If it's not popular I think you do the geographical. Assessment of that, but we've looked into this recently, but when you mentioned, a median based salary for health systems CIOs, at least the top 22 percentile is over $600,000, and so it would not be crazy to say cash comp, et cetera.

You're reaching the six to 750, 850 range for that type of thing in California. And you may have some other, like, long-term comp components, or if it's publicly traded, definitely you'd want the stock and the vesting schedules. So if you put that on of 22%, I'd say you're closer. I mean, you may be pulling in a million with some of the long-term comp opportunities.

Bill Russell: Drex, any other considerations? I mean, technology is pretty important these days, don't you think? No,

Drex DeFord: I mean, it is you can't do modern healthcare without technology. Almost got fired from a job at one point by telling the board that they, what they didn't realize yet, they were an information [00:19:00] services business that happened to be in the healthcare business.

They were information services company that happened to be in the healthcare business. So I think you've gotta look at this. I want to say part of this is an HR problem. So the HR person, have you ever had to sit in front of

Bill Russell: HR and justify salaries? It's

Drex DeFord: exactly all the time. You sit there with the HR person and the CEO and maybe the board chair, and you kind of have a conversation about, tell me what you're trying to do.

Are you trying to hire somebody at the median salary of the market? If you are, you're gonna get this kind of a person. Do you want Kobe Bryant? Do you want. A top notch all star ball player to come in here and actually run this shop for you, and are you gonna give them the resources to run the shop the way that they need to run the shop to make you the system that you dream of being.

Then I think you have to put the money on the table and the money on the table could be comp and it could be, all those things. But it may also be like, we're gonna be give you money for a house. We're really gonna go out [00:20:00] there to make sure that you can get here quickly, be comfortable private school for your kids, whatever it is that, is interesting to that all star player.

Sarah Richardson: One of the things I loved about working for a major healthcare system at one point was that you were often required to relocate, and they would, it was full service. And then, and that's still true for a lot of organizations. And they would, if they'd buy your house if it didn't sell and it was based on fair market value and they'd help you with everything that went into that.

And so temporary housing and a bonus for moving and all those things it made that part of the transition. Much more palatable because, moving every three years takes its toll after a while.

Drex DeFord: Yeah. We see some of these things that happen in some markets too, where CIOs have told me I'm not super comfortable with this, but because of the level of chief information security officer that we wanted for the organization, the CISO's gonna get paid more than I do.

So it depends on the level of player that you want. [00:21:00] That really is what it boils down to.

Bill Russell: Yeah. I think that's the direction I was gonna go. It depends. My friend gave me this word phenotype and I'm, now it's Yeah. Phenotype. Yeah. I want to use it in a sentence. It depends on the phenotype, it depends on what you're trying to hire.

If it's a turnaround, if it's like the, IT absolutely a mess. And you're, you have to turn it around. You have to consider that when Common Spirit was a mess, they went out and got Daniel Barce and I don't think they said, well, Daniel, we can only pay you 200,000 a year. They essentially said, can you fix this?

And he was probably, if you had asked me top three picks to fix what's going on at Common Spirit. I would've said Daniel Barce in the top three without blinking, and I think most people would agree with me on that. And so if that's the case, if he's one of the top three people that can solve your problems, not only your immediate problems, but the immediate problems were an indication of other issues throughout the system.

He was the person to not only get the security shop in order, but also [00:22:00] get the rest of an order. All the things we've talked about, the infrastructure and the service management and just the data and all that stuff across the board. It depends on your phenotype. I call him the a great wartime CIO.

Mm-hmm. He's probably a good peacetime, CIO as well, but he's a great wartime CIO He is a very levelheaded. Makes good decisions, but you know, if you just want the traditional CIO keep the trains running, that kind of stuff, you don't need to pay top dollar, you can find those people who can keep the data center running, keep your epic implementation going

well. Keep your physicians and your nurses as happy as you can keep them without doing a ton of innovation. And that kind of stuff. And I, and so there are different, there's the innovation phenotype, there's the business transformation person. A lot of people are getting the CIDO, the connotation, who I don't think deserve this ci DO connotation because we haven't defined it.[00:23:00]

I would define the d as business transformation. When we say CIO it's traditional information. When we say D, it's. How is technology going to change our business? And I'm not sure everybody who got that CIDO title deserves that CIDO title, and I'm not gonna name names. Don't look at me like that.

Drex DeFord: Well, , this has been one of those things that's going on for a while too, right? The director of information technology at an organization became the CIO. It was an easy way for them to give the person a new title. But not really give them a raise or, whatever, just sort of modernize their title.

So that's happened to us before, and it'll happen to us again in the future, I'm sure. But yeah, I'm with you. I think there's definitely different phenotypes. Just like, there are different phenotypes for the organizations too. What they may want and what may fit with them, may not be

the all star ball player that might actually tear the organization apart if they tried to hire somebody like

Bill Russell: that and different CIOs or different [00:24:00] people. Sarah, you were a CIDO at your last stop, and when I talked to you about digital, I mean, you were literally transforming the cost model of the business.

That's the level you were engaged in the business that you, the technology was changing the business itself. That's what I think a D is. Do you guys agree with that distinction, or is there a different way I should be looking at that?

Drex DeFord: I think Sarah was a great example of that because.

There were things that they wanted to do in her last gig that were not things that you could buy, and so she actually went out and built and ran development shops to create products to do the things that they wanted to do. That is a level beyond what a lot of our healthcare CIOs CIDOs are today.

Bill Russell: So happy birthday, Sarah. We're talking. Kindly about right in front of

Drex DeFord: your face.

Bill Russell: Yeah. And most of 'em don't want to run dev shops. It is a different skillset. It's a tough path to get [00:25:00] on to run. I've always

Sarah Richardson: taken roles though, Bill , that either other people didn't want or thought were going to be too messy.

'cause half the fun, I mean, honestly, keeping the lights on. It might be the most boring thing to do ever, unless structurally that's what your life needs. That's because you're not

Bill Russell: that phenotype.

Sarah Richardson: I'm not that phenotype. However, I'm never going to. Dismiss a person who has chosen that because they may have chosen it for several reasons.

Maybe they want to raise a family, maybe they don't want to have to relocate. Maybe lots of things happen for that. So what I don't ever want anybody to believe is that we don't think those leaders are also needed in the ecosystem.

Bill Russell: Oh, they're absolutely needed. I'll tell you that. The minute the data center goes down, everyone knows they're needed.

Yeah. And sometimes the CIDOs get so focused on the other stuff. That they lose sight of the core of the business, which is, what if that integration engine isn't working and those millions of messages aren't going across that system, you know what happens? People can't check [00:26:00] in.

So,

Drex DeFord: and nobody thought to think about the crack units and the data center and made sure that they were updated to your but machine

Sarah Richardson: said no, Drex, at least it was documented that we That's true.

Asked for $4 million and got told to go fly $2 million With, of kites.

Drex DeFord: Here's another really interesting part of this too. The person that you're probably trying to hire isn't somebody who's probably unemployed and applying online to the job that you're advertising, right?

Bill Russell: Yeah.

Drex DeFord: You're probably gonna have to go find.

The Dan Barches of the world, figure out the phenotype, find the people, and then figure out how you're gonna pry them out of a job that they're pretty happy with right now. That's not easy to do either.

Bill Russell: And Sarah, thank you. This is what you do for me is like, you identify the things I say and you're like, this is what people just heard and say, bill, did you just say that the CIDOs that shouldn't have the D title aren't worthwhile?

And the answer to that is absolutely not. They're probably got the D title 'cause they're great CIOs. The question is, are they gonna make that [00:27:00] transition? To business transformation from just implementing technology across the board. And that's the only thing I'm questioning I don't want to communicate.

I'm questioning their value. Although my job in this, in the three of us is to be the one who says crazy things. And then you guys.

Sarah Richardson: You are a bit of a contrarian and that's why

Drex DeFord: I three bill's been an IL three.

Bill Russell: Well, I want to thank you guys for joining us. Just a reminder for everybody in August, you're gonna hear the best of UnHack.

You're also I got Reed to do an episode in August as well. But you won't hear me do another live-ish episode unless, Drex talks me into it. Maybe I'll do some synthetic bill interviews and we'll make up some CIOs and just have conversations with them. We'll see what happens.

Hey, I want to thank the two of you for coming on. Looking forward to your shows UnHack hack with Drex to Ford, flourish with Sarah Richardson. And this is gonna be keynote with Bill Russell. Thanks. Hey, have a good time in Minneapolis.

Sarah Richardson: and [00:28:00] Chicago

Bill Russell: in Chicago tomorrow. Yeah.

Sarah Richardson: Yeah. It's the first time we're planting a flag in both cities and we know we'll be back.

We've got great representation the next couple of nights, so happy to be out here doing it's fun

Bill Russell: back in the Midwest. Looking forward to. All right. Take care everybody.

Sarah Richardson: Thanks all.

Bill Russell: That's all for now.

Thanks for listening to this week's keynote. If you found value, share it with a peer. It's a great chance to discuss and in some cases start a mentoring relationship. One way you can support the show is to subscribe and leave us a rating. it if you could do that. Thanks for listening. That's all for now..