1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,960 If somebody thinks something of me that is not true, I 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,760 don't care. I ignore it. Someone who thinks something of me 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:11,520 that is not true is completely irrelevant to me. You have an idea 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,720 that is contrary to the way I want this to go, and you're 5 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:18,720 being vocal about it because you found a problem that I don't want to address, 6 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,040 and so that makes you difficult. Not me. 7 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:27,270 Rigid and stubborn. There is one single micro 8 00:00:27,270 --> 00:00:30,990 action you can begin taking. It's really easy, 9 00:00:31,070 --> 00:00:34,750 doesn't require any particular talent, skills, whatever. It is the one micro 10 00:00:34,750 --> 00:00:38,590 action that will change your life and your work for 11 00:00:38,590 --> 00:00:42,430 the better immediately. And it's very simply 12 00:00:42,430 --> 00:00:46,190 this. All right, here we go. I'm gonna pretend 13 00:00:46,190 --> 00:00:48,990 I'm pushing record, because that feels right. Okay, I'm pressing record. 14 00:00:50,030 --> 00:00:53,630 Boop. Hi, everybody. I'm Lauren Howard. 15 00:00:53,630 --> 00:00:57,030 Welcome to Different Not Broken, which is our 16 00:00:57,030 --> 00:01:00,730 PODC on exactly that. That there are a lot of people in this world walking 17 00:01:00,730 --> 00:01:04,490 around feeling broken, and the reality is you're just different, and that's fine. 18 00:01:07,050 --> 00:01:10,490 Hey, guys. I'm very excited about today and 19 00:01:10,730 --> 00:01:14,530 a number of things that are about to happen. As you are listening along, it 20 00:01:14,530 --> 00:01:17,770 hasn't been no secret, especially if you've been listening for a while, that the last 21 00:01:17,770 --> 00:01:21,370 year has been borderline impossible. Not just for me. I feel like 22 00:01:21,370 --> 00:01:24,730 maybe that's been everybody in the whole entire world, and 23 00:01:24,890 --> 00:01:28,430 especially lots of people within the U.S. but my world 24 00:01:28,430 --> 00:01:31,470 specifically has been exceptionally difficult. 25 00:01:32,030 --> 00:01:35,710 I am very fortunate that there are a handful of other 26 00:01:35,710 --> 00:01:39,550 people who are always on the other end of the phone, so that 27 00:01:39,550 --> 00:01:43,150 when whatever shit hits whatever fan, I 28 00:01:43,230 --> 00:01:46,750 have a reliable network of people who have 29 00:01:47,150 --> 00:01:50,750 unfailingly been there. And I consider myself so 30 00:01:50,750 --> 00:01:54,550 fortunate. Despite the fact that the last year has been nearly impossible, despite the 31 00:01:54,550 --> 00:01:58,070 fact that there have been days that I'm like, what the am I doing? I 32 00:01:58,070 --> 00:02:01,670 have never done it alone. Even on the days where it felt completely 33 00:02:01,670 --> 00:02:05,510 isolating, I have never done it alone. If I look back on the last year, 34 00:02:05,510 --> 00:02:08,590 as much as it's been horrifically difficult, that is 35 00:02:09,230 --> 00:02:12,750 something that I can count as maybe the greatest blessing in my life. 36 00:02:12,830 --> 00:02:16,670 And the reason I say that now, specifically, is because I happen 37 00:02:16,670 --> 00:02:19,870 to be fortunate enough to have one of those people who is always on the 38 00:02:19,870 --> 00:02:23,380 other end of the phone here with me today. If you have 39 00:02:23,380 --> 00:02:27,100 not followed Cindy Gallup on LinkedIn, please go do it 40 00:02:27,260 --> 00:02:31,060 for a number of reasons. One, we're all being throttled, and so extra followers helps. 41 00:02:31,060 --> 00:02:34,540 And you should very intentionally go find her content because it's excellent, but also 42 00:02:34,700 --> 00:02:38,499 because everything she says is correct. Everything she says 43 00:02:38,499 --> 00:02:41,740 is right. Everything about women in business, about 44 00:02:41,980 --> 00:02:45,180 funding female founders, about standing up to the 45 00:02:45,180 --> 00:02:49,020 patriarchy, about, I don't know, probably soup. I would imagine 46 00:02:49,020 --> 00:02:52,560 your perspectives on soup are also correct. We probably agree. 47 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,360 Also she like posts like really like swanky photos from the 48 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,240 Virgin Atlantic Lounge with drinks. I just really want to drink. Airplanes aren't my 49 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,640 thing so I probably I might figure out have to figure out how to make 50 00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:06,240 one at home. So very, very, very fortunate to have the 51 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,040 wonderful and magical Cindy Gallop with us today. 52 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,920 We are going to get into both some very tough topics 53 00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:17,600 and just some funny topics. So, Cindy, thank you so much 54 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,400 for being here. I am delighted to have you. I would love for 55 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,020 you to give a brief background of myself to everybody 56 00:03:25,020 --> 00:03:28,340 who's listening along and then we'll get into some trouble as we always 57 00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:32,340 do. My background is 40 years working in 58 00:03:32,340 --> 00:03:35,940 brand building, marketing and advertising, which is actually very good experience. 59 00:03:36,020 --> 00:03:39,780 What I do now because I've effectively spent 40 years working in 60 00:03:39,780 --> 00:03:43,420 the business of getting people to do things that they originally had no intention of 61 00:03:43,420 --> 00:03:47,020 doing, which is advertising. And these days I'm the 62 00:03:47,020 --> 00:03:50,580 founder and CEO of Make Love Not Corn. We are pro sex, 63 00:03:50,900 --> 00:03:54,340 pro porn, pro. Knowing the difference, we've just launched 64 00:03:54,340 --> 00:03:57,940 MakeLoveNotPorn Academy, which is an extension of our 65 00:03:57,940 --> 00:04:00,980 brand, which is a global sex education 66 00:04:01,460 --> 00:04:05,060 aggregator hub to make it easy for parents, teachers, 67 00:04:05,540 --> 00:04:09,340 children, young people, adults to find the open, healthy sex 68 00:04:09,340 --> 00:04:13,180 education resources that they need at a time when those are being blocked, 69 00:04:13,180 --> 00:04:16,860 censored and deplatformed. And alongside that, 70 00:04:16,860 --> 00:04:20,580 I work as a personal coach, a consultant, and a public 71 00:04:20,580 --> 00:04:23,980 speaker. I was very new to LinkedIn and I was like, who is this woman 72 00:04:23,980 --> 00:04:27,740 and can she be my best friend? And what I will say is, 73 00:04:27,740 --> 00:04:30,900 you have a giant LinkedIn following. And I say this as somebody who has a 74 00:04:30,900 --> 00:04:34,380 big LinkedIn following. You dwarf me. Which is not a complaint. You should. 75 00:04:34,780 --> 00:04:37,340 But you are maybe the most approachable, 76 00:04:38,060 --> 00:04:41,820 authentic person on LinkedIn. 77 00:04:41,820 --> 00:04:45,460 I don't think I've ever commented on something and not gotten a 78 00:04:45,460 --> 00:04:49,260 response. You answer your emails, you'll tell people to shut up when they need to, 79 00:04:49,420 --> 00:04:53,100 which I very much appreciate. It wasn't like, it 80 00:04:53,100 --> 00:04:56,460 wasn't like some big thing where I 81 00:04:56,460 --> 00:04:59,380 literally just reached out to you on LinkedIn one day and I was like, I 82 00:04:59,380 --> 00:05:02,860 think I need to learn from you. And you were like, cool, awesome, 83 00:05:02,860 --> 00:05:06,380 let's do it. That was the whole of it. When I say 84 00:05:07,140 --> 00:05:09,580 this is not an exaggeration. When I say I would not have made it through 85 00:05:09,580 --> 00:05:13,260 the last year of my life without you. That is not an exaggeration. You 86 00:05:13,260 --> 00:05:16,820 have been a force within my brain 87 00:05:17,620 --> 00:05:20,900 when you're there and when you're not, because you're really good at leaving 88 00:05:21,300 --> 00:05:25,100 little Easter eggs that dive into the brain, wrinkles that will pop up and 89 00:05:25,100 --> 00:05:28,940 I'll be like, that's Cindy talking to me right now. I do hear voices, and 90 00:05:28,940 --> 00:05:32,660 occasionally it's you. You saw me on some of my worst days in the last 91 00:05:32,660 --> 00:05:36,380 year. This sounds very self aggrandizing and it's not meant that 92 00:05:36,380 --> 00:05:40,060 way. But usually when I talk to people about business, it's people who want to 93 00:05:40,060 --> 00:05:43,900 pick my brain about business. It's people who are struggling in their 94 00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:47,260 own right, which is fine. I love having those conversations and I will have them 95 00:05:47,260 --> 00:05:50,780 forever. But no matter the age of the person, they're usually coming to 96 00:05:50,780 --> 00:05:54,220 me looking for advice, which again, I love and I will do 97 00:05:54,220 --> 00:05:58,020 forever. But that gets very, very isolating 98 00:05:58,910 --> 00:06:02,750 because I'm great at business, but there are still days where I'm like, 99 00:06:02,750 --> 00:06:05,270 shit, I have no idea what I'm doing. Who do I ask? Who do I 100 00:06:05,270 --> 00:06:08,910 talk to? So having somebody who I can realistically 101 00:06:08,990 --> 00:06:12,390 say, I bet this person has been through this before. I bet this person has 102 00:06:12,390 --> 00:06:15,790 a perspective on it that I can trust. That has been transformational 103 00:06:16,350 --> 00:06:20,150 in my career. Because the shit that I'm coming to in 104 00:06:20,150 --> 00:06:23,990 my career, you figured out and that that matters a ton. 105 00:06:23,990 --> 00:06:27,790 Anyway, so I give that prologue because I like to hear my 106 00:06:27,790 --> 00:06:30,990 own voice, but also because I think I might need my ass kicked. 107 00:06:32,110 --> 00:06:35,070 We had planned to talk about some stuff which we will maybe get to at 108 00:06:35,070 --> 00:06:38,910 the end, but if I feel like I need my ass kicked, I'm gonna guess 109 00:06:38,910 --> 00:06:42,630 that most of the people who are listening need their ass kicked or 110 00:06:42,630 --> 00:06:46,310 need to hear what I can only anticipate is going to be the brilliance that 111 00:06:46,310 --> 00:06:49,750 you respond with. We done a lot of the hard things. We survived the 112 00:06:49,750 --> 00:06:53,310 impossible. We have survived really tough family 113 00:06:53,310 --> 00:06:56,590 stuff. We sold the business. We are 114 00:06:56,750 --> 00:07:00,590 figuring out what's next. We built up our consulting side a lot, 115 00:07:00,590 --> 00:07:04,230 which has been amazing. But I have not found the part where 116 00:07:04,230 --> 00:07:07,990 I feel like myself publicly again, which is a strange place to 117 00:07:07,990 --> 00:07:11,750 be after five years where I have made literally a whole podcast on being myself 118 00:07:11,750 --> 00:07:15,270 publicly. And it is making me think maybe this voice 119 00:07:15,270 --> 00:07:19,060 isn't needed. Maybe the reason that I don't feel drawn to it 120 00:07:19,060 --> 00:07:22,700 right now is because there are other people who need to be saying the things 121 00:07:22,700 --> 00:07:25,700 that I say, and maybe it's not me. And I know that Every time I've 122 00:07:25,700 --> 00:07:29,540 said that, you have all but threatened to end me in loving 123 00:07:29,540 --> 00:07:32,780 ways, in the lovingest ways. I feel like my brain 124 00:07:33,180 --> 00:07:36,340 or my soul maybe has not caught up to the reality of where we actually 125 00:07:36,340 --> 00:07:40,060 are right now as we progress through and improve. 126 00:07:40,860 --> 00:07:44,660 And I can't figure out where that is. And we 127 00:07:44,660 --> 00:07:48,360 have conversations every week about, like, do we need to keep doing 128 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,120 this? Do we need to keep doing things publicly? What are we 129 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,920 saying that matters? And so I would love the good old stindy 130 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,160 ass kicking. I know you're not going to tell me how to fix it 131 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,920 necessarily, but you will tell me what the path is 132 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,480 to getting to the other side and figuring out the right thing. And 133 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,240 that's, I think, what I need right now. So what I would say, 134 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,240 Lauren, is, first of all, I was very pleased to hear, 135 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,600 as we kicked off this podcast, that you have a 136 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,280 vacation coming up, because I think that is a very good thing. 137 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:25,040 And you know that I've spoken to you about that before. And so I'm 138 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,440 delighted to hear that you have, as I understand it, 139 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,520 rented a lovely house with a pool somewhere lovely. And you are going to 140 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,240 go and lie by that pool and do nothing. And so, first 141 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,060 and foremost, I would say go and do that because you need to 142 00:08:40,060 --> 00:08:43,460 do that. And honestly, first of all, I just think 143 00:08:43,780 --> 00:08:47,060 you're gonna find taking that break really 144 00:08:47,060 --> 00:08:50,340 helpful in resetting and 145 00:08:51,060 --> 00:08:54,620 getting back in the game, as it were. And secondly, Lauren, I will just say 146 00:08:54,620 --> 00:08:57,940 to you, we are at a time in history where 147 00:08:58,340 --> 00:09:01,540 we need everybody to speak their truth 148 00:09:02,420 --> 00:09:05,500 who is willing to. And I say that because there are a ton of people 149 00:09:05,500 --> 00:09:09,030 out there who will not, who really need the rest of us to do so. 150 00:09:09,510 --> 00:09:12,950 And, you know, I say that about the times we're going through now. We especially 151 00:09:13,190 --> 00:09:16,790 need role models for women who are willing to speak 152 00:09:16,790 --> 00:09:20,070 truth to power, to say what they really think, to 153 00:09:20,550 --> 00:09:24,390 stand up for what they believe in, to live the lives that they want 154 00:09:24,390 --> 00:09:27,670 to live, to encourage other women, especially, 155 00:09:28,230 --> 00:09:31,990 to do the same. So there is no scenario 156 00:09:32,790 --> 00:09:36,070 in which your voice should not be heard. Does the 157 00:09:36,070 --> 00:09:39,750 confidence in that? Does that come with 158 00:09:39,750 --> 00:09:43,510 time, with experience? Is that just innate that 159 00:09:43,510 --> 00:09:47,270 you popped up one day and knew that these are the 160 00:09:47,270 --> 00:09:50,710 voices we needed to hear. And being louder than other people 161 00:09:51,750 --> 00:09:54,950 is important when you want to be heard. In my case, I think it's a 162 00:09:54,950 --> 00:09:58,470 combination of two things. The first is the realization 163 00:09:58,550 --> 00:10:02,150 that honesty does come with time and getting older, which is, I don't give a 164 00:10:02,150 --> 00:10:05,930 damn what anybody else thinks, which is the only way to 165 00:10:05,930 --> 00:10:09,530 Live your life as you undoubtedly have heard me say before. Fear of 166 00:10:09,530 --> 00:10:13,090 what other people will think is the single most 167 00:10:13,090 --> 00:10:16,530 paralyzing dynamic in business and in life. 168 00:10:17,490 --> 00:10:20,410 You will never own the future if you care what other people think. And then 169 00:10:20,410 --> 00:10:24,130 the second thing is, and I've been saying this to people for a very 170 00:10:24,130 --> 00:10:27,930 long time now, for anyone who's never done this exercise, take a 171 00:10:27,930 --> 00:10:31,690 long, hard look inside yourself and identify what you stand 172 00:10:31,690 --> 00:10:35,540 for, what you believe in, what you value, what 173 00:10:35,540 --> 00:10:39,020 you're all about. In the first instance, doing 174 00:10:39,020 --> 00:10:42,820 that makes life so much simpler because life 175 00:10:42,820 --> 00:10:46,180 still throws you all the shit. It always will. But you know exactly how to 176 00:10:46,180 --> 00:10:49,860 respond to that shit in any given situation in a way that is true to 177 00:10:49,860 --> 00:10:53,700 you, and that honesty is the secret of happiness. Living your 178 00:10:53,700 --> 00:10:57,100 life and working your work in a way that is true to you. But that's 179 00:10:57,100 --> 00:11:00,890 also what gives you confidence. Because when you know that 180 00:11:00,890 --> 00:11:04,610 you are living and working your value, that's the only thing 181 00:11:04,610 --> 00:11:08,210 that matters. You don't need to care what anyone else thinks. You can have the 182 00:11:08,210 --> 00:11:12,050 complete confidence to do what you know is the right thing for you to 183 00:11:12,050 --> 00:11:15,170 do. I'm the one who says to people all the time, what other people think 184 00:11:15,170 --> 00:11:18,850 about you is not your business. And I believe that. I do. But I 185 00:11:18,850 --> 00:11:22,530 do find that the current climate feels so toxic. I'm thinking 186 00:11:22,530 --> 00:11:26,040 about it a lot more than I ever did before. And that is not like 187 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,520 me at all. So where do you get to the point 188 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:33,360 where if what you know about you and 189 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,080 what someone believes about you are not the same thing, that that doesn't 190 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,000 affect you? Is that just a matter of showing them different? And if they don't 191 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,760 want to believe it, it's fine. There's like a gap there that I can't figure 192 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,280 out how to bridge right now. And this is very unlike me. I have never 193 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,600 been like this before in my life. Honestly, Lauren, if 194 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,260 somebody thinks something of me that is not true, I don't 195 00:11:53,260 --> 00:11:57,100 care. I ignore it. Someone who thinks something of me that is 196 00:11:57,100 --> 00:12:00,860 not true is completely irrelevant to me. You know, there is no universe 197 00:12:00,860 --> 00:12:04,580 in which I need to take account of that, because it's just. It's ridiculous. 198 00:12:04,980 --> 00:12:08,500 Is there a trick for building that armor? I've never been this person, 199 00:12:08,580 --> 00:12:12,220 and I find myself in the last year being this person a whole lot more 200 00:12:12,220 --> 00:12:15,620 than I thought possible. I've been saying this to people for a long time. 201 00:12:16,020 --> 00:12:19,660 Stay away from people and places and things that make you feel bad about 202 00:12:19,660 --> 00:12:23,320 yourself. Okay. I may occasionally come across something 203 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,160 online where somebody is saying Something ridiculous about me. The moment I realize that's what 204 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,440 it is, I absolutely close the page. 205 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,480 I do not read any further because I don't need to 206 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,200 see that. I remember years ago, there was somebody, a 207 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:42,040 white man, and I say that deliberately because that's where this came from. 208 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,560 I think this is somebody in my industry, advertising, who 209 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:49,320 basically kept writing blog posts about me and how awful I 210 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,790 was in all sorts of ways. But he was fixated. I did this much 211 00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:56,310 more back in the day when I was running an ad agency and 212 00:12:56,310 --> 00:13:00,070 needing to monitor my coverage. And also I did this back in the 213 00:13:00,070 --> 00:13:03,870 day, by the way, when Google was a lot more effective than it is 214 00:13:03,870 --> 00:13:07,430 currently. But every so often, I would Google myself to check 215 00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:10,950 what coverage had come out, et cetera. Whenever I Googled myself, 216 00:13:11,590 --> 00:13:14,470 one of the things that would come up was this gentleman had written yet another 217 00:13:14,550 --> 00:13:17,390 nasty blog post about me. And I would see the first line, which made it 218 00:13:17,390 --> 00:13:21,020 very clear. And I never, ever clicked 219 00:13:21,020 --> 00:13:24,660 through to any of those posts. I have no idea how they 220 00:13:24,660 --> 00:13:28,380 continued beyond the first line, because I did not need to read them. 221 00:13:28,380 --> 00:13:31,380 So that's what I mean when I say, stay away from people and places and 222 00:13:31,380 --> 00:13:35,020 things that make you feel bad about yourself. The moment you see something in the 223 00:13:35,020 --> 00:13:38,820 corner of your eye, ignore it. Shut it down. So 224 00:13:38,820 --> 00:13:41,820 have you had experiences in your career where maybe you have 225 00:13:42,940 --> 00:13:46,300 done the wrong thing or wished you had handled something differently 226 00:13:46,820 --> 00:13:50,460 and that impacted maybe somebody's perspective of you? 227 00:13:50,460 --> 00:13:54,260 How do you address from that perspective? Yes, I absolutely have. And 228 00:13:54,260 --> 00:13:57,820 first of all, you know, I would just say to that, Lauren, something 229 00:13:57,820 --> 00:14:01,660 that I've had occasion to say to all 230 00:14:01,660 --> 00:14:05,460 my employees in different companies over the years. It's more important 231 00:14:05,540 --> 00:14:09,060 to be respected and not necessarily liked than 232 00:14:09,060 --> 00:14:12,820 liked and not necessarily respected. And I say that because 233 00:14:12,980 --> 00:14:16,150 you're asking about decisions I've made in a business 234 00:14:16,230 --> 00:14:19,830 context which were not always popular, but were the right 235 00:14:19,830 --> 00:14:23,030 decisions for the business. Okay. And 236 00:14:23,830 --> 00:14:27,390 the reason I make that point is because too many 237 00:14:27,390 --> 00:14:31,190 people in business want desperately to be liked. 238 00:14:31,590 --> 00:14:35,390 And that can come actually at the expense of 239 00:14:35,390 --> 00:14:38,950 respect. And again, when I was explaining this point to people who worked with me, 240 00:14:38,950 --> 00:14:42,670 I would say the reason it's better to be respected, not necessarily liked, 241 00:14:42,670 --> 00:14:46,270 is because you can absolutely be that boss that everyone loves 242 00:14:46,270 --> 00:14:50,010 going for a drink with on Friday evening. Real love at the holiday 243 00:14:50,010 --> 00:14:53,610 party. But when times are tough and the 244 00:14:53,610 --> 00:14:57,090 trips are down, your people want to know that they have a leader 245 00:14:57,170 --> 00:15:00,890 who will get them through those tough times no matter 246 00:15:00,890 --> 00:15:04,370 what. And that's not the person who desperately Wants to be liked down the park. 247 00:15:04,930 --> 00:15:08,690 So we all do things that may not land well with 248 00:15:08,690 --> 00:15:11,490 some people, but we're doing what we do because it's the right thing to do. 249 00:15:11,490 --> 00:15:15,100 Yeah, let's say we have somebody who maybe does not 250 00:15:15,100 --> 00:15:18,900 have the track record that you and I do of having a 251 00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:22,740 big mouth on the Internet. And they want to find their footing, they want 252 00:15:22,740 --> 00:15:26,420 to find their way in, but they're not sure where to start. 253 00:15:26,420 --> 00:15:30,060 And it's really scary. The first time I ever posted on LinkedIn, I was so 254 00:15:30,060 --> 00:15:33,740 scared about making an idiot of myself that I had five 255 00:15:33,740 --> 00:15:36,940 people read it before I post. Now I just post the fuck word all the 256 00:15:36,940 --> 00:15:39,970 time. I don't care. Nobody reads my stuff before I post it unless it's like 257 00:15:39,970 --> 00:15:42,690 a partnership thing that I have to get approval on. But other than that, nobody 258 00:15:42,690 --> 00:15:45,250 reads my stuff. But at the time I was so scared. 259 00:15:45,970 --> 00:15:49,410 Silencing myself doesn't do anything for anybody. But also 260 00:15:49,890 --> 00:15:53,650 being loud and not encouraging other people to do it also does 261 00:15:53,650 --> 00:15:57,290 not get us the diversity of voices that we need. Maybe the world needs my 262 00:15:57,290 --> 00:16:00,930 voice, but it doesn't need only my voice. So how do you get 263 00:16:00,930 --> 00:16:04,290 somebody from teetering on the edge of 264 00:16:05,100 --> 00:16:08,300 maybe I would like to say something unpopular, which by the way, I've never actually 265 00:16:08,300 --> 00:16:12,060 heard an unpopular opinion that was unpopular, unless it's just 266 00:16:12,060 --> 00:16:15,820 a bad, misogynistic, shitty white man thing, which happens. But I've 267 00:16:15,820 --> 00:16:19,300 almost never heard an unpopular opinion that was actually unpopular. I just hear opinions that 268 00:16:19,300 --> 00:16:22,860 nobody else wants to say. And so how do you 269 00:16:23,180 --> 00:16:26,780 encourage somebody to get from that? I'm not ready yet to 270 00:16:26,780 --> 00:16:29,900 actually diving in. So my 271 00:16:30,220 --> 00:16:33,900 startup before Make Love Not Porn was called if 272 00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:37,620 We Ran the World and I had to back burner 273 00:16:37,620 --> 00:16:41,380 if We Round the World when Make Loved One Porn blew up because even I, 274 00:16:41,380 --> 00:16:45,140 superhuman as I am, cannot run two startups simultaneously. You know, I had to 275 00:16:45,140 --> 00:16:48,500 pick and Make Love Not Porn is literally the startup the world asked for. 276 00:16:48,980 --> 00:16:52,460 So I back Bernard if We Ran the World, although I would love to reactivate 277 00:16:52,460 --> 00:16:55,860 it one of these days because it's still badly needed, 278 00:16:56,100 --> 00:16:59,380 if We Ran the World was a co action platform 279 00:17:00,020 --> 00:17:03,620 that enabled brands and their consumers to come together 280 00:17:03,940 --> 00:17:07,749 around shared values in order to walk 281 00:17:07,749 --> 00:17:10,669 the talk together, to co act and 282 00:17:10,989 --> 00:17:14,709 collaboratively and collectively co act on those values in a way that 283 00:17:14,709 --> 00:17:18,469 would make good things happen for the brand, for the business, for the 284 00:17:18,469 --> 00:17:22,269 consumers and for society in general. And the atomic unit of 285 00:17:22,269 --> 00:17:25,749 if We Round the World was the micro action. I 286 00:17:25,749 --> 00:17:29,149 designed my business as I do with Make Love not porn around my own beliefs 287 00:17:29,149 --> 00:17:32,720 and philosophies. And I believe that change happens from the 288 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,480 bottom up, not the top down. Every single one 289 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,280 of us, every day, taking micro actions. 290 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,280 Small, simple, easy to do actions, so easy to do well when you do them. 291 00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:47,320 Taking micro actions to change what we want to see change 292 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:51,720 cumulatively adds up at scale to enormous impact. And I'm telling you this because 293 00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:55,800 when I talked about if we ran the world, and I still to this day 294 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,510 talk about for the concept of micro actions, what I 295 00:17:59,510 --> 00:18:03,270 would say to people was, there is one 296 00:18:03,270 --> 00:18:06,630 single micro action that you can begin taking 297 00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:10,470 today. It's really easy, doesn't require any 298 00:18:10,470 --> 00:18:13,510 particular talent, skills, whatever. It is the one micro action 299 00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:17,750 that will change your life and your work for the better 300 00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:21,030 immediately. And it's very simply this. 301 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,960 Say what you think. No, really say what you 302 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,640 really think, because nobody does. I explain to 303 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,320 people that when you begin saying what you think, 304 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,560 that is a fantastic filter. So, for example, 305 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,160 at work, in a meeting about whatever, 306 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,880 say what you really think because that is why that 307 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,600 business hired you. They hired you because they wanted your unique 308 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,120 perspective, insights, thoughts, contributions. 309 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,360 And if you give them that and they do not respond, 310 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,800 welcoming them, then you know you need to get the fuck out. You 311 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,320 do not want to work anywhere where you cannot bring your 312 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,160 unique perspectives and insights and contributions to the table and 313 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,960 have that be welcomed and well received equally. Say 314 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,760 what you think on social, be yourself on social. That's what I 315 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,600 always advise. Because you will attract to you the people who 316 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,280 completely concur and you'll repel the ones who 317 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,240 don't. And you want to repel the ones who don't because who the hell wants 318 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,240 to have anything to do with them? I say this to people all the time. 319 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,000 The greatest joy of finding your authentic self or figuring out who 320 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,840 your authentic self is in a public setting is letting people self select 321 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,480 out. Exactly. Again, that's something I've always been good with. I think as 322 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,860 visibility grew, people got louder about it, which 323 00:19:43,940 --> 00:19:47,660 didn't used to bother me before the last year. And that is, that 324 00:19:47,660 --> 00:19:51,500 is where I think I expected that was going to be a quiet 325 00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:55,300 action, that people were just going to be like unfollow or block, 326 00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:58,020 like please hit the block button. I love it when you hit the block button. 327 00:19:58,020 --> 00:20:01,740 I don't want you to see me either block. And sometimes it just 328 00:20:01,740 --> 00:20:05,500 wasn't quiet. And that was a shock to the system. And I 329 00:20:05,500 --> 00:20:08,900 don't know why, because it's not like I didn't know that those things happened. Now 330 00:20:09,550 --> 00:20:13,350 it happened in ways that were very scary and that maybe that was the 331 00:20:13,350 --> 00:20:17,190 difference, that it stopped being necessarily things that were happening on a screen and in 332 00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:19,990 some cases became things that were happening on my front porch by people who were 333 00:20:19,990 --> 00:20:23,550 not invited. But every reaction is information. 334 00:20:23,710 --> 00:20:26,670 You will find out quickly if that is a person you want in your 335 00:20:26,830 --> 00:20:29,710 ecosystem or not. And being able to assess 336 00:20:30,750 --> 00:20:34,470 this isn't right. I'm gonna bounce out. Even if that's not a 337 00:20:34,470 --> 00:20:38,260 fast timeline, making the decision that you are not going 338 00:20:38,260 --> 00:20:41,260 to continue to invest in where you are, even if it's going to take you 339 00:20:41,260 --> 00:20:44,180 a year to find the next thing, just knowing that is power. 340 00:20:44,980 --> 00:20:48,740 And I think probably where I'm struggling is the fact that 341 00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:52,420 intellectually I know all of this. I still say it to people all the time. 342 00:20:52,500 --> 00:20:56,140 I almost never tell people things I don't practice myself. 343 00:20:56,140 --> 00:20:59,620 And I feel like I'm not practicing some of those things right now. 344 00:21:00,420 --> 00:21:03,990 That leads me to another question that popped into my head while you were explaining 345 00:21:03,990 --> 00:21:06,710 that. How many times in your career have you been called difficult? 346 00:21:07,590 --> 00:21:11,230 I'm sure I've been called difficult a lot behind my 347 00:21:11,230 --> 00:21:14,910 back. Once people get to know me after being terrified by 348 00:21:14,910 --> 00:21:17,230 me, they will tell me that they were scared of me when they first met 349 00:21:17,230 --> 00:21:20,910 me. I don't know why. It's probably the resting bitch face, which is fine. 350 00:21:20,910 --> 00:21:24,150 That's just the way my face is. Anybody who says it's resting bitch face, it's 351 00:21:24,150 --> 00:21:27,950 actually resting thinking face. You are punishing people for having things going on behind their 352 00:21:27,950 --> 00:21:31,740 eyes. But that's neither here nor there. But that gets hurled at women 353 00:21:32,220 --> 00:21:36,060 all the time. Obviously, that's not new information, but I ran 354 00:21:36,060 --> 00:21:39,740 a mental health practice in person for 10 years, and people would come in 355 00:21:39,740 --> 00:21:43,460 and they would hassle the doctor for things. They would 356 00:21:43,460 --> 00:21:46,860 hassle the therapists for things. They would hassle the front desk for things. Things that 357 00:21:46,860 --> 00:21:50,620 everybody unequivocally said no about. We're not doing that. We don't do that. We don't 358 00:21:50,620 --> 00:21:53,180 do that paperwork. We can't prescribe that medication. No. 359 00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:57,790 And finally, somebody would be like, hey, can you come deal with this person? And 360 00:21:57,790 --> 00:22:01,110 I would just very politely walk up from the back of my office and say, 361 00:22:01,190 --> 00:22:04,750 hey, is there something I can help you with? And 100% of the time they 362 00:22:04,750 --> 00:22:07,670 would go, no, I'm fine, thank you, and leave. There were doctors in our office 363 00:22:07,670 --> 00:22:10,790 that had 40 years worth of credentials and all sorts of 364 00:22:11,030 --> 00:22:14,750 plaques and things on their walls that are very impressive. And I'm just 365 00:22:14,750 --> 00:22:18,390 the office manager in the back. And for whatever reason, 366 00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:22,080 people find that to be intimidating. But 367 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,120 that's fine. People don't say it when they want to problem solve. They say it 368 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:28,920 when they want to write you off as somebody who you can't work with. And 369 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,440 that is never the case. In fact, I find the quote unquote 370 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,040 difficult women who end up in my career trajectory to be the ones who are 371 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,440 the most dynamic, the ones who are the most collaborative. 372 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,520 Are there women that I haven't gelled with in the workplace? Absolutely. 373 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,030 I can think of a couple who. We just had very different 374 00:22:47,110 --> 00:22:50,870 philosophies on how you treat your co workers. But 375 00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:55,070 by and large, the ones who get the reputation that I'm sure you 376 00:22:55,070 --> 00:22:58,910 and I carry around with some people are the ones who want to 377 00:22:58,910 --> 00:23:02,750 work the most with us or have the best ideas or need to 378 00:23:02,750 --> 00:23:06,470 be heard. And usually the difficult thing means you 379 00:23:06,470 --> 00:23:10,110 have an idea that is contrary to the way I want this to 380 00:23:10,110 --> 00:23:13,840 go and you're being vocal about it because you found a problem that I 381 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,400 don't want to address. And so that makes you 382 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,240 difficult, not me. Rigid and stubborn. I think 383 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,800 the fact that nobody has ever said it to you probably speaks to just your 384 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,440 presence in any room. You run a company that people either love 385 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,280 or hate. There probably are not a lot of people 386 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,880 who are indifferent towards your mission. What is it like to be the 387 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,440 figurehead of that and to navigate all of the challenges 388 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,170 that come with people who make decisions about what you do? Not 389 00:23:43,170 --> 00:23:46,890 even because they don't understand, because they aren't even trying to understand. They 390 00:23:46,890 --> 00:23:50,330 don't care to understand. Make Love, Not Porn has been 391 00:23:50,490 --> 00:23:54,290 universally well received by people at 392 00:23:54,290 --> 00:23:57,930 large for 17 years. Okay. My only 393 00:23:58,010 --> 00:24:01,130 challenges have been financial, 394 00:24:01,450 --> 00:24:05,210 tech, and business ones. And they have not been 395 00:24:05,530 --> 00:24:09,150 about what people think of what I'm doing. They've been about the 396 00:24:09,550 --> 00:24:13,150 no adult content, knee jerk compliance reaction 397 00:24:13,390 --> 00:24:16,990 to give you an idea. Some years ago, a friend of mine, a female 398 00:24:16,990 --> 00:24:20,670 journalist, wrote to me and she said, cindy, I'm writing 399 00:24:20,670 --> 00:24:24,270 a book on how women aren't welcome on the Internet. And she said, 400 00:24:24,910 --> 00:24:27,870 so what I'm doing is I'm reaching out to prominent feminists like you. 401 00:24:28,430 --> 00:24:31,550 I'm asking them to share with me the hate mail they receive 402 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,840 and to talk to me about how they deal with it. And I said to 403 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,400 her, I think that sounds like a terrific idea. I'm really sorry I can't help 404 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,960 because I do not get hate mail. And I really don't. In 405 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,800 17 years of make Love Not Porn, I have never 406 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,280 had anybody send Hate mail about it. 407 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,880 And I think that's because when you 408 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,080 understand what we're doing at Make Love Not Porn and why we're doing 409 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,810 it, nobody can argue with it. People occasionally ask 410 00:25:01,810 --> 00:25:05,570 me, Cindy, how do you have the boldness to give talks to 411 00:25:05,570 --> 00:25:09,210 very corporate audiences and talk about Make Love Not Porn within the talk, 412 00:25:09,530 --> 00:25:13,370 which I readily do, because Make Love Not Porn is designed 413 00:25:13,370 --> 00:25:17,170 around my own business principles and philosophies. And so it's a business case study of 414 00:25:17,170 --> 00:25:20,730 my own business thinking. But my response to that is 415 00:25:20,730 --> 00:25:24,090 because it doesn't matter how corporate the environment is 416 00:25:24,910 --> 00:25:28,750 a large the audience is. I know perfectly well that when I talk about 417 00:25:28,750 --> 00:25:32,110 Make Love Not Porn, everybody in that audience knows exactly what I'm talking about. 418 00:25:32,430 --> 00:25:36,070 And that's why I have no issue with bringing it up. It's an interesting business 419 00:25:36,070 --> 00:25:39,870 in that context. Now that I think about it, in the context of 420 00:25:39,870 --> 00:25:43,470 the conversations we have had. It's always been funding. It's always been, 421 00:25:43,870 --> 00:25:47,470 you know, funding banking, highly regulated 422 00:25:47,470 --> 00:25:51,290 industries who are scared about compliance risk. In hindsight, 423 00:25:51,290 --> 00:25:55,010 yeah, I don't think you've ever said that any human takes 424 00:25:55,010 --> 00:25:58,690 specific issue with it. Like maybe we won't run it through 425 00:25:59,010 --> 00:26:02,690 the Bible Belt entirely. Or maybe we will, I don't know. Many 426 00:26:02,690 --> 00:26:06,450 years ago I was booked to come and give a talk to the students 427 00:26:06,530 --> 00:26:10,330 at the University of Missouri about Make Love Not Horn specifically. So I gave a 428 00:26:10,330 --> 00:26:13,930 talk, I was talking about our revenue share business model and I light 429 00:26:13,930 --> 00:26:17,460 heartedly said to the audience, it's a great way to pay off your student 430 00:26:17,460 --> 00:26:20,980 loans. Now sitting in the audience was a local reporter 431 00:26:20,980 --> 00:26:24,540 who instantly wrote a piece about, you know, woman recommends students 432 00:26:24,620 --> 00:26:28,260 prostitute themselves. And that shot out across a syndicated 433 00:26:28,260 --> 00:26:31,820 network of local papers. And so I was contacted by a local 434 00:26:31,979 --> 00:26:35,700 Christian radio station, was shocked and horrified and asked 435 00:26:35,700 --> 00:26:39,540 me to come on and explain myself. And I absolutely accepted any invitation like 436 00:26:39,540 --> 00:26:43,280 that. I went on this radio station and I explained what Make Love 437 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,000 Porn was actually about what I was doing. And by the end of the 438 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,600 show they were going, this is wonderful, everybody. Check out Make Love Not 439 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,680 Porn. I probably haven't said this on the show before. I 440 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,960 am definitely Jewish, but I grew up in an evangelical Christian 441 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,680 cult. Very like basically a cult that has 442 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,880 to this day has their own radio station. And 443 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,080 I'm imagining you going into these studios and it is 444 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,080 the greatest image that I can possibly conjure in my head. 445 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,120 But also I would love to see the reactions of the 446 00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:20,720 Pearl clutchers that I grew up with. I have a friend 447 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,559 who has a somewhat problematic mother in law. And we 448 00:27:24,559 --> 00:27:27,520 were at a thing together and her mother in law was there and she says 449 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,840 to me, okay, that's my mother in law. Stay away from her. 450 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,850 She's super intrusive. She doesn't like anybody. She will grill 451 00:27:34,850 --> 00:27:38,570 you and make you uncomfortable. Just stay away from her. And 452 00:27:38,570 --> 00:27:42,290 I looked at her and I said, introduce me. I 453 00:27:42,290 --> 00:27:46,130 was like, let's go. I want to go. So I would 454 00:27:46,130 --> 00:27:49,769 walk into that very happily because it's an opportunity to educate, but it's also 455 00:27:49,769 --> 00:27:52,970 an opportunity to show. I mean, you have nothing to be ashamed of. You have 456 00:27:52,970 --> 00:27:56,610 nothing to be shy about. You are building what you're building. And it's for 457 00:27:56,610 --> 00:28:00,130 them, too. It's not to their exclusion. It's for them too. 458 00:28:00,540 --> 00:28:04,100 I love that we both lean that way because there are situations that you're 459 00:28:04,100 --> 00:28:07,900 supposed to run from that are going to be confrontational. And I'm like, let's go. 460 00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:11,580 I'm ready. Let's do it. So as we round out, 461 00:28:11,900 --> 00:28:15,740 first off, would love for everybody to know where they can find 462 00:28:15,740 --> 00:28:18,780 you, how they can engage with you, what ways you make yourself available. 463 00:28:19,340 --> 00:28:23,180 But also if there is someone listening that just needs 464 00:28:23,180 --> 00:28:27,020 to hear why the world needs that needs their voice, needs, needs their 465 00:28:27,020 --> 00:28:30,660 skill, needs, whatever. As a departure, what do you say to them? The 466 00:28:30,660 --> 00:28:34,380 world needs your voice. Whatever you want to say, the world needs 467 00:28:34,380 --> 00:28:37,020 to hear it because there are so many people 468 00:28:37,820 --> 00:28:41,580 silencing themselves for all the wrong reasons. So the 469 00:28:41,580 --> 00:28:44,380 world needs to hear your voice. Whatever you want to put out there, trust me, 470 00:28:44,460 --> 00:28:48,180 the world wants it in terms of finding me. And this may also be 471 00:28:48,180 --> 00:28:51,780 helpful. So, first of all, I have a substack. It's called Dear 472 00:28:51,780 --> 00:28:55,370 Cindy. I started that because people write to me and ask me 473 00:28:55,370 --> 00:28:59,130 things. And so I thought, let's formalize this and you can write 474 00:28:59,130 --> 00:29:02,930 and ask me anything. And each week I answer one question from 475 00:29:02,930 --> 00:29:06,370 the ones that have been sent to me. You can absolutely follow me on LinkedIn. 476 00:29:06,930 --> 00:29:10,690 I am Indy Gallop on Instagram. If you're curious about my work, 477 00:29:10,690 --> 00:29:14,290 do check us out@makeloveknotborn.com do support 478 00:29:14,290 --> 00:29:18,050 my work by signing up and subscribing. Subscriptions start at $10 a month. 479 00:29:18,460 --> 00:29:21,660 And also do check us out at MakeLoveNotPorn 480 00:29:21,820 --> 00:29:25,500 Academy, which is the sex education extension 481 00:29:25,500 --> 00:29:29,020 we've just taken live in very early stage beta. We're still 482 00:29:29,020 --> 00:29:32,700 loading educators and content on the platform, but we welcome real world testing 483 00:29:33,020 --> 00:29:35,980 and we also welcome people who believe in our mission 484 00:29:36,540 --> 00:29:39,740 of bringing lifelong sex education to the world. 485 00:29:40,300 --> 00:29:44,020 And so we'd love you to become a paid member of the academy. 486 00:29:44,020 --> 00:29:47,710 It's free for everyone to access, but you can pay just $100 a year 487 00:29:47,710 --> 00:29:51,390 to help fund our operations. You can absolutely find me on Facebook 488 00:29:51,390 --> 00:29:55,190 as well. And I have a website, cindygallup.com where you can find out more 489 00:29:55,190 --> 00:29:58,870 about my personal coaching services and speaking. You will get 490 00:29:58,870 --> 00:30:02,230 more out of an hour with Cindy than you will get out of an 491 00:30:02,230 --> 00:30:06,030 mba. That's not me being grandiose at all. 492 00:30:06,350 --> 00:30:10,070 You will get more with an hour with Cindy about you, about your 493 00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:13,870 needs, about the ways that we torture ourselves, that she will cut 494 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,080 right through Cindy. Thank you so much. I adored having you here. You 495 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,640 are welcome back anytime. Everybody. Please go check out all of the different ways 496 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,440 Cindy advised that you can find her. I love the substack. I 497 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,280 personally tend to gravitate toward LinkedIn just because that's where I am 498 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,640 most of the time. But all of the content is great and there are very 499 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,120 good alcohol drinks there occasionally that you can partake in by 500 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:36,760 proxy. 501 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,320 And now we'll go to Allison, who has this week's small 502 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,120 talk. I have a small talk question from Jenna in 503 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,520 New York. My family has always leaned on me, 504 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,560 youngest of four kids. But somehow I became the one people call the 505 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,360 one who shows up, the one who knows what to do when things go sideways. 506 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,720 And for a long time, that role felt like a gift. It made me 507 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,300 feel capable, needed, and worthy. 508 00:31:08,700 --> 00:31:12,540 Last spring, my dad was in the hospital for three weeks, and I organized everything. 509 00:31:12,540 --> 00:31:16,340 The visits, the insurance calls, the meals for my mom. And 510 00:31:16,340 --> 00:31:19,940 about halfway through, I realized nobody asked me 511 00:31:19,940 --> 00:31:23,660 how I was doing. Not once. I'm not sure if I 512 00:31:23,660 --> 00:31:27,340 train people to not ask or if people just assume the strong one 513 00:31:27,340 --> 00:31:30,900 doesn't need checking on, but either way, I'm sitting here 514 00:31:30,900 --> 00:31:34,620 wondering how you start letting people take care of you when that's never 515 00:31:34,620 --> 00:31:38,090 been the dynamic. Why are you asking questions about my life? 516 00:31:38,090 --> 00:31:41,570 Jenna from New York? Rude. Why? Why you do this? 517 00:31:42,210 --> 00:31:45,810 I'm proud of you for taking on the responsibility and doing all the 518 00:31:45,810 --> 00:31:49,610 things right by your dad, but also very sorry that 519 00:31:49,610 --> 00:31:53,290 you had to shoulder that all by yourself. I'm also one of 520 00:31:53,290 --> 00:31:56,770 four children, and I am also the only 521 00:31:56,850 --> 00:32:00,530 girl. And I am going to hazard a guess that you 522 00:32:00,530 --> 00:32:04,370 might also be the only girl. In your case, you're the youngest, 523 00:32:04,370 --> 00:32:08,170 so you would have to be the only girl. I'm not the youngest. 524 00:32:08,170 --> 00:32:11,890 Even though I'm the only daughter. I'm also the eldest daughter, so there's like 525 00:32:11,890 --> 00:32:15,690 a whole thing there. I once like asked the Internet if being the eldest daughter 526 00:32:15,690 --> 00:32:19,410 meant the eldest of all children and also a 527 00:32:19,410 --> 00:32:22,970 daughter, or if it meant any place in the birth order but the first 528 00:32:22,970 --> 00:32:26,490 girl. And it was clarified to me that it meant the second 529 00:32:26,570 --> 00:32:30,420 thing, which I guess being the only one also makes me the eldest. So. 530 00:32:30,420 --> 00:32:33,700 Okay. And that is very typical 531 00:32:34,020 --> 00:32:37,860 of the eldest star. I don't know 532 00:32:37,860 --> 00:32:41,420 why it works out that way. I only have my lived experience on this, and 533 00:32:41,420 --> 00:32:44,900 I can tell you that that's been a thing my whole life 534 00:32:44,980 --> 00:32:48,740 where the siblings will reach out to me and ask me 535 00:32:48,740 --> 00:32:52,500 what we are doing for one of our parents for whatever 536 00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:56,270 day it is, they do not come to me with a plan for whatever 537 00:32:56,270 --> 00:33:00,070 day it is. Not often, at least. My mom was recently in the 538 00:33:00,070 --> 00:33:02,830 hospital and they all texted me. Not a single one of them reached out to 539 00:33:02,830 --> 00:33:06,310 her. And they did text me, but it was to find out 540 00:33:06,550 --> 00:33:10,310 what I was doing, how I was handling her. And like, 541 00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:14,030 my mom wanted to talk to them. She didn't want that. And I didn't really. 542 00:33:14,030 --> 00:33:16,790 Honestly, I didn't think about it. I just am so used to that dynamic. I 543 00:33:16,790 --> 00:33:19,630 didn't even think about it until I was sitting in the hospital with her on 544 00:33:19,630 --> 00:33:23,340 like day six or seven. And of course, I'm running back and forth multiple times 545 00:33:23,340 --> 00:33:27,180 a day and bringing her whatever she needs. And there's. There's a little 546 00:33:27,180 --> 00:33:30,220 bit of. I don't want to call it an advantage, but there's like a home 547 00:33:30,220 --> 00:33:33,220 field advantage there. She lives very close to me and one of my other siblings. 548 00:33:33,380 --> 00:33:37,060 I am the one who is better with planning and 549 00:33:37,060 --> 00:33:40,820 logistics and decision making and nuance. And my other sibling is very good for 550 00:33:41,060 --> 00:33:44,660 show up at this place at this time. And so when I need that, he's 551 00:33:44,660 --> 00:33:47,780 great. When I need flexibility and 552 00:33:48,180 --> 00:33:51,780 somebody to make decisions and somebody with critical thinking, that's not the role that he 553 00:33:51,780 --> 00:33:55,500 fulfills in this dynamic. Right. And so we were probably like five 554 00:33:55,500 --> 00:33:59,300 or six days in, and I'm sitting in my mom's room because I think we 555 00:33:59,300 --> 00:34:03,020 were waiting for one of the doctors to come in, and she says, you 556 00:34:03,020 --> 00:34:06,820 know, have you heard from your brothers? And I said, oh, yeah, because they had 557 00:34:06,900 --> 00:34:09,940 texted me a couple of times to check in on her. And 558 00:34:10,820 --> 00:34:14,300 she said, well, none of them have called me at all. And I was like, 559 00:34:14,380 --> 00:34:17,940 really? That's weird, because, like, they know what's happening. I keep them 560 00:34:17,940 --> 00:34:21,620 informed. She was like, no, nobody's called me. And then I 561 00:34:21,620 --> 00:34:25,260 realized that I was the information conduit. They were coming to me if the 562 00:34:25,260 --> 00:34:28,700 information was coming to them. For me, they were satisfied with it, and they weren't. 563 00:34:28,940 --> 00:34:32,740 They weren't putting any more emotional or physical labor into it at 564 00:34:32,740 --> 00:34:36,380 all. And that's because I was doing all of that labor. And I have historically 565 00:34:36,860 --> 00:34:40,480 done all of that labor. Now, that's. That. That's the emotional 566 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,160 labor part. There have been many other types of labor that 567 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,320 my siblings have participated in at other parts of our journey, in taking 568 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,240 care of both of our parents. And so I don't want to make it seem 569 00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:53,360 like I'm the only one ever, because that's not the case. 570 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,680 But I'm the only one a lot of times, 571 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:02,000 and I'm so used to it that sometimes I don't even 572 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,640 realize until it all gets to be too much. It's all 573 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,320 piled on top of me, and I'm going to. Why is this so difficult? 574 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,800 And I realize I feel like I'm the only when I'm not the only, you 575 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,880 know, running back and forth multiple times a day, being the one who has to 576 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,200 take her to the emergency room, being the one who has to know where the 577 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,000 med list is, where her surgery list is, where she keeps her computer, 578 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,560 where she keeps all of her. The things that she needs to pack a bag, 579 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:29,320 who her doctors are, how often they communicate with each other. 580 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,360 It's a lot. And when you are the one who has always handled it, 581 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,170 people don't realize how much it is. And if you're anything like I am, 582 00:35:38,490 --> 00:35:42,250 nobody knows how much you're shouldering until it's so much that you bray, 583 00:35:42,650 --> 00:35:46,370 and then you're angry at everybody and firing back at everybody because you feel so 584 00:35:46,370 --> 00:35:50,170 isolated and alone. And the reality is that 585 00:35:50,810 --> 00:35:54,490 as grownups, they should know that this is not all on 586 00:35:54,490 --> 00:35:57,690 you. If you are not complaining, people don't jump in. 587 00:35:58,010 --> 00:36:01,690 People in general are not going to fix a problem that 588 00:36:01,690 --> 00:36:05,200 has not been verbalized to them as a problem. And so 589 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,160 should all of the boys in your life know that 590 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,720 you're doing too much and you're overwhelmed and that you need help. But if you're 591 00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:16,320 not saying it to them, they are not going to pick up on what you're 592 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,880 thinking. They're not mind readers, and you have to tell them. And I think 593 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,360 that's probably what's missing. And 594 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,040 in a lot of cases is received a whole lot better than 595 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,160 you anticipate that it will be for a couple of reasons. One, it's devastating to 596 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,910 go to somebody and say, this is too much and I can't do it. And 597 00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:37,630 as somebody who's had to do that a lot in the last six months. More 598 00:36:37,630 --> 00:36:41,470 than I ever have in my life. The ways that it has made me feel 599 00:36:41,950 --> 00:36:45,750 like an epic piece of shit and very small and very ineffective and 600 00:36:45,750 --> 00:36:49,070 like a failure in all ways. So, so, so many ways. But that was something 601 00:36:49,070 --> 00:36:51,790 I did to myself. It was never something that was on the other side of 602 00:36:51,790 --> 00:36:55,150 that equation. There was never anybody else making me feel that way. That was always 603 00:36:55,150 --> 00:36:57,630 what I put on myself because I wasn't reaching this 604 00:36:58,270 --> 00:37:01,990 insurmountable level of management. 605 00:37:02,070 --> 00:37:05,790 That was just never gonna happen. And historically, there are kind 606 00:37:05,790 --> 00:37:09,590 of two responses. Well, I guess there's technically three responses. There's 607 00:37:09,590 --> 00:37:13,390 the response of somebody saying, okay, that thing you just said, I can handle 608 00:37:13,390 --> 00:37:16,550 that. Don't do that anymore. I will take that off your plate. 609 00:37:17,190 --> 00:37:20,470 That's the best of all the responses, right? There's the 610 00:37:20,470 --> 00:37:24,190 intermediate response of what can I 611 00:37:24,190 --> 00:37:27,590 help with? Which is better than a bad response. 612 00:37:28,250 --> 00:37:31,850 But they're still putting the onus on you, the emotional energy 613 00:37:31,850 --> 00:37:35,050 on you to sort through this thing, 614 00:37:35,370 --> 00:37:39,090 and that's still work. And when you're overwhelmed and you feel like you're out 615 00:37:39,090 --> 00:37:42,850 of resources, putting that work back on you to figure 616 00:37:42,850 --> 00:37:45,850 out what of these 700 things they can help you with 617 00:37:46,490 --> 00:37:49,210 can feel just as overwhelming as the 700 things. 618 00:37:50,010 --> 00:37:53,820 And so it's not the worst response. But 619 00:37:53,820 --> 00:37:56,980 I wish that we could somehow train people in their 620 00:37:57,380 --> 00:38:01,140 good intentions to help, which they should be rewarded for 621 00:38:01,540 --> 00:38:05,380 that. A blanket offer to help is sometimes not at all 622 00:38:05,380 --> 00:38:09,020 helpful. But if you come up with three things, you 623 00:38:09,020 --> 00:38:12,220 know, you call a sibling and say, I've been at the hospital with dad for 624 00:38:12,220 --> 00:38:15,620 three weeks. I'm burned out. I can't do it anymore. And they say, 625 00:38:16,100 --> 00:38:19,730 okay, well, I can either come for the weekend or I can 626 00:38:19,730 --> 00:38:23,290 come in one week. We have a family member. Let me call them 627 00:38:23,530 --> 00:38:26,050 and see if they can come and relieve you for a bit, and then I'll 628 00:38:26,050 --> 00:38:29,690 be there next week. Like, options, Concrete, tangible 629 00:38:29,690 --> 00:38:33,490 options, great. But, oh, I'm. Listen, I didn't know you 630 00:38:33,490 --> 00:38:37,050 were struggling. That's good. I really want to help. Also good. 631 00:38:37,290 --> 00:38:40,170 What can I do for somebody that's drowning? 632 00:38:40,890 --> 00:38:44,610 That's not always the right answer, but it's a better answer than the 633 00:38:44,610 --> 00:38:48,450 last option, which is, well, if you didn't want to handle it all, maybe 634 00:38:48,450 --> 00:38:51,010 you shouldn't act like you have all your stuff together. Blah, blah. Okay? If anybody 635 00:38:51,010 --> 00:38:53,130 reacts to you that way, and the only way I bring it up is because 636 00:38:53,130 --> 00:38:56,770 I've seen that before, thankfully not directed toward me, but I'VE seen that before. Tell 637 00:38:56,770 --> 00:39:00,610 that person to fuck off. Get bent. You don't want their help, they 638 00:39:00,610 --> 00:39:04,290 will make things worse and find another solution. There's another solution out there. But 639 00:39:04,290 --> 00:39:06,970 somebody who will make your stress and your 640 00:39:07,450 --> 00:39:11,210 overwhelm about them and become defensive 641 00:39:11,210 --> 00:39:15,040 about it is not somebody who's helping you. Okay. But it starts 642 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,520 with a very simple conversation. I'm really overwhelmed by what's 643 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,280 happening and I. I can't be the one who's responsible for 644 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,800 everything. What can you take off my plate? I know 645 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,520 historically I've done this. It is not working for me right now. What can you 646 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:33,160 take off my plate? And the response to that will be positive more times 647 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,400 than not. Especially if this is a close family and they love you and they 648 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,040 just don't realize that if you haven't complained before, they don't have any 649 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,870 reason to believe that this time is any different. But it's different. And 650 00:39:43,870 --> 00:39:47,510 that's okay. Things change. People change. The amount 651 00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:51,350 of stress and burden that you can handle changes. And 652 00:39:51,430 --> 00:39:54,310 this is one of those times to ask for help. And odds are 653 00:39:55,030 --> 00:39:58,750 the people around you are so impressed with your ability to handle so much 654 00:39:58,750 --> 00:40:02,550 that it has never occurred to them that you might need help too. 655 00:40:04,070 --> 00:40:07,470 And that's because you do a really, really good job of being a 656 00:40:07,470 --> 00:40:10,970 badass all the time. And it's one of the reasons why I always tell people 657 00:40:10,970 --> 00:40:14,650 to check on your strong friends because they are not going to tell 658 00:40:14,650 --> 00:40:18,010 you when the sky is falling in. And the number of times that I have 659 00:40:18,010 --> 00:40:21,570 found that somebody who I thought had all of their shit together was 660 00:40:21,570 --> 00:40:25,330 as big a disaster as I am and needed help and 661 00:40:25,330 --> 00:40:28,970 was just too scared to tell anybody is more times than I could 662 00:40:29,290 --> 00:40:32,970 easily recollect. It happens all the time. You are the 663 00:40:32,970 --> 00:40:36,090 strong friend in this case. You're the strong family member. You're the one they don't 664 00:40:36,090 --> 00:40:39,130 worry about. They don't need to worry about you, but they do need to help 665 00:40:39,130 --> 00:40:42,770 you. But they will not know to start that until you make it 666 00:40:42,770 --> 00:40:46,410 clear. And you have to give them the opportunity to give you the 667 00:40:46,410 --> 00:40:50,090 answer that you don't want. You have to get over your own ego 668 00:40:50,090 --> 00:40:53,690 that says you can do it all because you always do it all. And you 669 00:40:53,690 --> 00:40:57,530 have to be willing for. Willing to experience some sort of rejection. But I 670 00:40:57,530 --> 00:41:00,610 would bet dollars to donuts that it's not going to happen. 671 00:41:01,010 --> 00:41:03,700 Also, I know I now want donuts. 672 00:41:04,740 --> 00:41:07,140 Thanks for being here, guys. Have a good day. Love you. Mina 673 00:41:10,820 --> 00:41:14,660 And I thought now that we're on the other. Nope I 674 00:41:14,660 --> 00:41:17,540 don't want to say that. Nope. Not going to tempt the wrath of whatever.