Welcome back to the Become a Calm Mama podcast. I'm your host. I'm Darlin

Childress. I'm a life and parenting coach. And on the podcast

today, I have invited Devin Kunstman to come to talk to us about

toddlerhood. I think this conversation is going to

be so helpful for anybody who has any

child that's ages 1 to 5. And a

lot of times parenting strategies don't really

focus on these toddler and preschool years. And

Devin is a toddler parenting expert.

She's written a book called Transforming Toddlerhood and her mission

is to transform the myth that toddlerhood is

terrible. She gives really practical strategies

in the book as well as on this episode.

And I think you're gonna like this episode because we talk about the

mental load of parenting toddlers

and preschoolers and really that comes from kind of not

understanding their developmental needs, why they behave the way

they behave and what to do about it. And a lot of

the strategies that we talk about are really

applicable for any age, any age that you have

of child. These are going to be really helpful for you

because she talks about meeting their basic needs, their

developmental needs and their sensory needs, and then teaching

them skills to get those needs met and cope

with the frustration that happens when they can't have their needs

met immediately. So I really hope you love

this conversation and that you go out and get Devin's book as soon as it

comes out on Amazon. And it's called Transforming

Toddlerhood. So please welcome Devin to the podcast.

Yes, well, welcome to Become a Calm Mama podcast.

I'm so excited to have you, Devin, on the podc because I'm

really excited to talk about toddlers. So welcome. Say hi

and we'll jump in. Hi. Well, thank you for having me. I'm so

excited. Toddlers are literally my passion

and the thing I'm excited to talk about every day. So

I'm very excited to be here. Yeah, obviously you even have a book coming out.

It's a bit gonna be available as soon as this podcast is launched.

Your book is out there. Tell us a little bit about the book and then

we'll kind of frame our conversation around that. Absolutely. So

I've been wanting to write a book for a long time, but I didn't do

it because I wanted to make sure I was writing a book that would truly

change parents lives. Because there's so many parenting books out there.

I wanted something that would fill a need. And what

I realized is that parents were DMing me the same things every day,

asking the same questions. And I realized parents are

scrolling Instagram Googling to find the answers

to to their questions and they're not sure if they're even going to find them.

And most parenting books either gloss over the toddler years or they have very

long chapters and you're not sure if you're going to find the answer to your

question in that long chapter. And who has time to read

long chapters anyway? So I created the first comprehensive

quick reference guide for toddlerhood that is 45 mini

chapters split into five sections, including the Toddler

Parent, the Toddler Explained, the Emotional Toddler, the Physical

Toddler, and the Social Toddler. Full of tips,

scripts, behavior red flags and FAQs. So you can

get all of your questions answered about every aspect of parenting. Kids

ages 1 to 5. Oh my God. Amazing. Interesting that

you have it. I had so many thoughts, but interesting you have a toddler's one

to five. Because I always think of toddlers and preschoolers as separate.

But in your book you've kind of put them all together. Is there any reason

for that? Yeah, absolutely. So first, there's a ton of confusion

out there on Google. When you start Googling what is a toddler? You can go

down a rabbit hole and some people say 2 to 5, 2

to 4, 1 to 3. There's no real consensus

here. And so what I did in my book, and you'll see that in the

introduction chapters, I define toddlerhood as younger toddlers,

ages 1 and 2, and older toddlers ages 3 and 4, and

then 5 year olds who are transitioning out of toddlerhood into the school age years.

Because 1 and 2 year olds and 3 and 4 year olds are still struggling

with a lot of the same things. They still have very immature brains. They're lacking

their impulse control skills, emotional regulation skills, which

are really becoming more consistent around age 5.

So prior to that, the big difference is, is that younger toddlers

have less expressive language skills. So they're going to use big

behaviors to communicate their feelings,

emotions and needs, whereas older toddlers have

more expressive language skills. So to

communicate still with some big behaviors. But they're also going

to throw in that you're a mean mommy, I don't like

you anymore, you're not my friend today. But really what

they're trying to do is learn how to use

words to express their feelings and emotions and

needs when they're upset and dysregulated. And so

that's why I lump them in together all into toddlerhood,

because it can get confusing. If we just call them preschoolers because we

think that maybe shouldn't be having those toddler

behavior and challenges anymore when it actually is completely

developmentally appropriate for three and four year olds to have those same

struggles as one and two year olds. It's so true. Because the brain does

this big leap at 6, right, where it has more and more

access to executive function and listeners, you know, know what I'm

talking about because, you know, if anyone has been listening to my podcast, knows what

I'm talking about. New listeners, you know, we have our, our

little brains and really when they're first born, they're in that

kind of fight flight, like just response, survival response for the first

few months. Then it's really, I think about it as like limbic center.

It's all about feelings. It's just like I think when I describe toddlers and

preschoolers, it's like their decision making is if it feels good, do

it. If it doesn't feel good, don't do it. It's just an emotional

decision making process. And then they start to have

more access to thinking, to logic, to executive functioning

as they get older. And I love that. Yeah, anecdotally,

we've not known what to do with five year olds. Like are they kindergartners, are

they first graders, are they preschoolers? And it's because of the differences in

developmental delay, not delay, but like how they develop

each individualized person. So I do think it's really

helpful to have it be kind of like that one to five years.

I think it's really clear. I feel like we should all just think of it

as one age group because you're right, they are all the same kind of

nervous system regulation and mental capacity and all of those things.

Right. Because I just feel like whenever we start breaking it down too much, then

our expectations get even more

imbalanced. Right. And we expect, we're expecting kids. Oh, they're preschoolers now, so

they should be able to not have a tantrum, right? Not hit

or not spit or not kick. But they're still struggling with the same

things that one and two year olds are, but they have a lot more words,

but they aren't able to use those words the same way an adult

would or even like, you know, a seven or eight year old would. And so

quite frankly, a lot of the stuff that I talk about transforming toddlerhood and in

my book can apply to kids of all ages. But I am

passionate about the first five years of life because we know that the first, first

five Years really set the foundation for the rest of a child's

life in terms of their brain development and their

emotional regulation and things like this. And of course,

our brains are adaptable and we can, our brains can still change and grow and

learn, but the foundation is truly built in the first five

years. And so the more that we can focus on creating a

solid foundation, then the easier things are

going to be down the road. And that's why I'm so passionate about that age

group. It's so true. Yeah. I teach a parenting model

that really is around our own emotional regulation.

I call that calm. And then connection is the next

part. So it's calm, connect, limit, set. Correct. And I always think if we have

these four pieces in our parenting

framework, then we're going to hit all of the

developmental needs of our kids and we're going to, you know, be able to raise

emotionally healthy kids who can self regulate while also knowing

how to think before they act. That's my goal. And

why I'm so happy to talk to a toddler and

preschool experts, Bert, is because I do

teach a logic based model in many ways where

we're compatible, we're calm. Okay. We can agree everyone needs their parent

needs to be regulated. We can talk more about that, especially with toddlers.

Toddlers and teens, fairly similar. And then

compassion. Right. Understanding why a kid is behaving the way they're behaving

and leaving room for that. And then I do limit

set. Correct. Which is a little bit about like cause and effect,

kind of connecting the dots between. I think of it like you

have your internal feelings and your desires

and your, you know, whatever it is you want to do or want

from life or whatever. You know, when you're two, you want the blue cup. And

that's the only thing that's most important. And when you're 42, you want like the

blue shirt, right? And it's still really important to you. And we have our things

and then we have expression of those. Right. We have

behaviors and when we then have to deal with the

impact of our behavior. So I love to bring the two pieces

together with kids, right. Like here's why you're behaving the way

you're behaving. Here's your feelings and here's your all of that. And now here's the

impact of your behavior. It's very logical. So it's not

shame based or threat based or whatever it is. But I do find it

tricky to bring that kind of cause and effect

and logic to little kids. Because they

aren't really cognitively able to do that

work. And so I would love to have

a conversation a little bit about disciplining

this age group. Not so much in terms of timeout, takeaway,

but just kind of how do you guide them to

start to connect those dots at this age? So

that's why I was like, because I have clients who have 2 year olds

and 3 year olds and they'll do my process. But

I always wonder if there's a better way. So that's why I wanted to have

you on and talk about that. But before

we go into the discipline piece, I want to talk a little bit about the

developmental needs of toddlers and preschoolers.

What are they all about? What's their developmental job? What are they working

towards? Why do they behave the way they behave? I think when parents have

education, it's a lot easier to stay calm. So why don't you just

still just start there for us? Absolutely, yes.

I'm happy to answer all of these questions about discipline. And I

think a great place to start is understanding the behavior itself. Right.

Because if we don't understand what's happening with the

behavior, then it's going to be really challenging to,

to know how to respond. Right. And then what I

like to talk about is this idea of decoding the behavior.

Right. When we say the word decode, it helps us understand that

there's something, there's a layer, there's layers of the onion to peel back.

There's something else there. And it requires

us to have some curiosity. And so

really at the root of a child's behavior, especially

a young child, what it. It's all communication. It's not

good or bad. It's communicating their level of brain

maturation, their, their level

of skills. Because young children are lacking a lot

of skills, a lot of life experience and a lot of skills. Say an

example of a skill that they lack just so we can drill. Down impulse control

skills, emotional. Say that what it like really kind of so. Because I think parents

hear the words like you're saying, like they will go on tick tock, the chat,

GPT, whatever the heck. And then they're like, don't have

the. Not that they're not. Not. They're all smart, you're all smart, right? But like,

what does it actually mean when you see your kid spit at

you or hit you? You're like, is that impulse control?

Is that dysregulation? Like, I think that people get really in the

weeds. So what would you, what would you describe as some impulse control

behaviors. Yeah. So first of all, spitting might be all of

those things. Yeah. Right. Okay. So just to like, be clear, it's

impulse control, it's dysregulation. It's all. All the things. But

when we think about, like, impulse control, it might be the

inability to go through the grocery store aisle

and not grab things off the shelf that are at eye level. It might

be when you're walking down the street, all of a sudden seeing

a cat down the way and starting to run toward

the cat or the bird. Without thinking about safety. Right. Without

thinking, yes. Like. Right. Very reactionary.

There's no thinking at all about safety, about impact, about the

future, about. Right. They're just like, boop, Right?

That thought. Thought move. And then they're in it. Yeah. Yes,

exactly. And so behavior is also communicating feelings and emotions,

and it's communicating needs. And so what kind of needs are we talking about

here? It's communicating sensory needs, which a lot of people don't think

about or talk about, which I've dedicated a whole chapter in my book to. Because

it's important to understand how the sensory system impacts behavior. Then

it also communicates basic needs, like tired,

hungry, the need to feel like connection

and love, things like that. And then developmental needs,

like the need to experiment and explore, to move, to

be independent, to exert will, to feel capable, to have a sense of control, to

feel powerful, to have a role in the family. Now, these are all

needs that all human beings have, but they're extremely pronounced

in the toddler years, because the whole point of toddlerhood is for your

child to become their own unique individual, to develop

a sense of self for the first time. Because babies often

relate to themselves as an extension of their primary

caregivers. And we typically relate to kids

and babies as an extension of us. That's why toddlerhood is so

frustrating and hard, because all of a sudden, this little

human that you're so connected with starts having their

own agenda and starts trying to become an individual. And

we're like, whoa, what is going on here? And it can feel really

hard because we relate to them as an extension of us and not as their

own unique individual, which is then why we try to control them.

And then we get stuck in all these power struggles, and then it's just a

snowball. It's so helpful, I think,

to say, right, Sensory needs. And

just a couple weeks ago on the podcast, I released an episode, kind of

like I was calling it pre regulating, like

this concept of getting kids to move through their

sensory needs, get those met, move those big feelings through kind of

before you have big meltdowns or before, you know

there's going to be a transition or whatever. Just kind of bringing in more. And

I gave like a bunch of ideas. So I think it's really

helpful to recognize that they not only

have sensory needs, but also have trouble meeting those without, like, in

ways that we think work. They do meet their needs, but they might be,

you know, tossing pillows against the window or something like that. And you're like

that, you're gonna break the whatever. We feel that panic around the result.

And so we. They have the sensory needs and then those basic needs I think

parents are pretty good about, like, oh, you're hungry. Oh, you're

t. When the kid is acting out, we often will

name those basic needs, but maybe

we're not looking at like the connection, the need for affection, the need for,

you know, touch, things like that. And then you went through the develop.

Develop developmental needs pretty quick. Those are the ones I

think that we get in trouble with. Right, because they have their need for autonomy

and their. A need for. Which is, you know, agency and power. Right. They

want to build their own unique self.

So thinking about the developmental needs,

what would be like a. A power struggle, where you would see

that at play with a parent, if you can think of one. Yeah. So this

morning I was actually on a Chicago news station and

one of the hosts, it was a surprise 12 minute segment. I thought it was

gonna be three minutes, it was 12. So I got a lot of parenting questions

from the host. And the one host

said, okay, so when I'm playing with my toddler in the

sandbox, all, you know, he really wants to control my

play. He really wants to. He's like, no, you do it like this. No,

you do it like that. Now, this isn't necessarily a power struggle, but what

it illustrates is the fact that this is a place

where a toddler's trying to have a sense of control,

because toddlers have very little control and

say over their lives. So I said,

you allow your child to have a sense of control in

areas that are very inconsequential, that are

within your boundaries, that fulfills that need.

So then later on, whenever it's time to put on pajamas

or things like this, you might be less likely to have a power

struggle because that need to have a sense of control has already been

met. But if that need to have a sense of control or sense of power

or feel powerful has not been met throughout the day, and they've just time and

time again been shut down, have to do, you know, which is just a reality.

Like, we have. We're in charge of, like, how life goes, and

toddlers have to follow along, and it's hard for them. And so

that's when you'll get stuck in different, you know, power

struggles. Whether it's about getting dressed or brushing

teeth or taking a bath or coming to eat or

cleaning up toys or really just about any possible transition

or request you might have of your. Throughout the day.

Yeah. And I think sometimes we can give. I love that because it's almost

like a deposit in their control bank or something

like that. Right. Like, how many times can you give them a

little bit of agency and autonomy and power? And I also

think sometimes you can do it within the moment. Like, they can

control how they do it. Right. Like being even playful.

Like, I don't want to go in the bathroom. Okay. Do you want to jump?

Jump like a kangaroo or crawl like a bear to the bath? And then all

of a sudden, they have some choice and some playfulness to it. And you can

kind of, you know, diffuse some of those power struggles by giving

choice in how not whether or not you do it, but how

it gets done. I don't know if you ever recommend that. Yeah,

absolutely. And giving choices is

really great. There's so many. I have a whole chapter dedicated to power struggles and

all the different tools that you can use to.

To come out of a power struggle in an empowered way. Because

I always say there's takes two people to be in a power struggle. Yeah. And

if you're waiting for your child to be the one to say, oh,

just kidding, I'll just do what you wanted, you're

gonna be waiting a long time. Because it's a developmental

need. So they're developmentally driven to push against us. Even

if they want to go do the thing, they're likely going to

just have to. I always call it reserve the right. Like they need to res.

The right to say no. But once they've had their no, then they might scurry

off and go do it. Because it's just part of their developmental

DNA at this point. So using

tools like giving a choice within your boundaries, a choice

of, as you said, how and not whether or not you do it, is a

really great way to move forward. Another great thing is

just in general to think about playfulness, because play

is the language of young children. It's the language of young, young

children and the work of young children. And so

the more that we can speak their language per

se, the more influence we'll have, the more connection

we'll have, which creates influence. And that positive

influence then leads to cooperation. So

that's really supportive way. And it doesn't mean that you have to be

super creative or playful all the time. But bringing

in elements of playfulness can go a long way.

Yeah. Even just a little bit of a smile sometimes. Like just not

taking everything so seriously. Yeah.

So good. I, I think that everyone right now is like,

I'm gonna buy this book because I have a toddler, I have a four year

old, I have a three year old, I have a two year old. Right. Yeah.

I wanted to talk a little bit about like the essential conflicts because you

talked about parent power struggles and how it like takes two to

tango, you know, and where do they come from?

Right. Like what's that about? And, and I was actually

gonna say something about control. It's like I want to not

make decisions like as a mom and like having so much

going on all the time in my life. I love it when someone's like, hey,

we're gonna go to this dinner. Or we're like, here's when you're. The Uber

leaves for this. Like it's so nice to have someone else sort of make

decisions and be in control of our lives sometimes. And I think

it's like the opposite for toddler. Like they love having

that power because they don't get it that often and we

love having it like not being always in

charge. Right. So I don't know, I just, I think

recognizing where I'm struggling or what I want

and how that comes out for me and then kind of connecting those dots,

either when I want agency and autonomy in my own life or when I want

to not be in charge, like kind of figuring out how

to connect with our kids desires is so helpful. It gives us

an idea of how to get to compassion. Yeah.

Well, you know, the funny thing about toddlers is that

they have competing needs. Right. Because they're trying to become

their own person, develop a sense of self, be

independent, have that autonomy. But they're also very

reliant on us to meet their physical needs and their

emotional needs. So because of that, you have children who

like crave a sense of control, that

need to feel powerful. But at the same time, if

they don't have limitations, then they feel

too powerful, which makes them feel too out of control. And

then you see behavior snowball and escalate.

So. But then at the same time, when you Give a limit, they have a

big reaction, right, of, like, tears and crying and kicking,

hitting, biting, whatever the thing might be, because that part

of them doesn't want the limit because it really

hinders their autonomy. But the other part

of them, the emotional side of them, needs it for that sense of

security. So inside of that, when I heard you saying,

like, gosh, I just like when sometimes I have to make the decision

or. Yes, we all do. Right. Because we have so much

going on. And because we already have so much power, we like it when we

don't have to be in charge. Yeah, exactly. Flip for them,

right? Yeah. But then what's so interesting, I feel like, is that

the goal of parenting truly, is to work ourselves out

of the job, to really equip our kids with the

skills that they need to, you know,

be able to really think. As you said, think

before they act. And so to get there,

it actually requires us giving up some of our

control. Right. Which can feel

really hard. Even though we'd like to make less decisions, it can

also feel hard to say, hey,

what's your idea? What's your plan? What could we do next

time to make this better? Like, we often think that we have to have all

of the answers and to have it all figured out. But

around, I mean, even at two years old, you can start involving your children

in the teaching skills, piece into, you know, the problem

solving aspect. They may or may not be

able to fully respond, but they're going to understand what you're saying. But then as

they're three and four and five years old, they're going to have something to

say. And the more that you can empower them to be part of the process

and moving forward, then you actually are

lessening your burden right there in the moment. But

then each subsequent time, because your child's learning

and building up those skills. But sometimes it can. We trick ourselves into

feeling like it's easier just to, like, figure it all out and tell our kids

what to do. But it doesn't really help us out in the long term or

really get rid of any of our mental load. It's true. I mean, I

raised kids. Now they're adults, young adults, and I've also

been coaching a long time, and I see the same thing that

it's like they don't do the dishwasher well, or it takes so

much time or it's such a pain and they fight all the time and they

complain all the time. So it's just easier for me to do it myself.

And I Hear it in the short term, but then in the long term

don't. Wouldn't it be nice to come home from school and have

kids just empty the dishwasher and prepare their snack and

like you're on the couch reading your book,

particularly Devin's book, you know, and just

kind of relaxing. And it's like I, I think you do put

in the hard work at these young years where you do establish

leadership. I know you talk about that in your, on your.

And in your book leadership. And I call it leadership energy. And it's really like

I am the adult, I do know what's going on and I am going to

hold space for your big feelings within the

expectation. And that's just really hard when we're taxed and

gassed and overwhelmed. For sure. Just like it is hard for them when

they're taxed and gassed and overwhelmed to do good listening.

Yeah, that's why I always say this is like probably

people who know me probably hear me as a broken record about this. But I

always say, you know, we want to go for consistency

here. But consistency doesn't mean perfection. It means

more often than not it's predictable that you're going to respond in a

certain way. So it's okay to have that margin of error that those

moments where, you know, things might go off the rails sometimes

or you might not want to involve your child. But if

you're like, I'm just gonna do these dishes or I'm putting, you know what, come

over here, I'm putting your socks and shoes on. Like sometimes I teach you to

put your socks on and then sometimes I just do it. Yeah, but with the

goal we're gonna teach you. Yeah, eventually. Yeah. Because sometimes we're

just under resourced. Right. And so we need to make our lives

easier in that moment. And there is nothing wrong with that because we're a human

being too with feelings, emotions and needs. But we

do overall need to keep the larger goal

or what we really envision for our family or for our kids in one

year, three years and five years in mind. Which is why I wrote a chapter

in the book called Raising a Helper. Because, you know, if you

want a school age child

who's going to just be a team player in the household

that is going to be used to

helping out, that actually starts that

seed is planted and nurtured in the toddler

years. If we do it for, if we do it and kind of shoo

them away every time we're sending the signal

inadvertently, not on Purpose, but sending the signal like, you don't belong here.

So then you end up with a 5 year old, an 8 year old, a

10 year old that's like, oh, I don't belong here in the kitchen. Or in

the laundry room or. Right. And then you have to end up. Cleaning out the

car. Yes. So then you have to end up kind of

bribing them or motivating them with money

and paying them for chores. And I'm not saying it's wrong to like

let your kids earn money, but at the same time, there's something really

great about that. Team player, family

oriented. Like, these are our family tasks that we share as

a family. And those seeds are planted when kids are young, believe it or not.

Yeah. I think of it just like, this is what we do. Like, this is

how we get home from school. We come in, we bring our backpacks, we bring

our lunch boxes, we put them on the counter, we take the

dishes, we put them in the sink. I mean, I taught my little boys how

to do all these things when we would get home from school. School. And there

was a whole transition and then they would have their

snack, like, wash your hands. There was. And it was not me going, you

guys, come on. Right. It's like we. That rhythm,

we just kind of taught that. I taught that all along. And then that became

part of their routine, their habits. And

it is helpful for us to, to think about

what it is we want our kids to be doing. Like, ultimately, like, what are

the stuff that, what's the stuff driving us crazy? Then teach them how to

manage those tasks or be, you know, whatever that is.

I wanted to go back really quickly and then I want to move on to

the sandbox thing because I think people are like, so do I make

my, do I let my kid boss me in the

sandbox or do I not let my kid boss me in the sandbox? Sure. Let

me just like clarify this. That's, that's a great. Because I hear this a lot.

Like the, where they do that almost like marionette thing. Kids get into

the stage where they want to like really hyper control. Like, don't talk

to daddy. Look over here. They get kind of into that.

Yes. Oh yeah. My three year old's always like, wait, mommy, don't talk, don't

talk. You know, don't talk to papa.

Yeah. So this sandbox example is an example of

play. So this example is within

our boundaries. Right. Because this is a moment that you are in

the sandbox connecting with your child. This isn't A

moment where you're having a conversation with your parenting partner and

your child's trying to come in and control you. That is not within

your boundaries. That is not your child's job or responsibility.

However, play is your child's responsibility.

And when you're in the sandbox playing with your child, you're creating a

connection moment. So if you can spend that 10

minutes, 15 minutes delighting in your child

with your attention, 100 on them, and letting them

lead the play, they are going to feel really empowered,

really seen and heard, and you're really filling their cup and

meeting them when. Where they're at in their developmental needs.

And that will take you forward throughout

the day with a child who feels more developmentally

resourced than if you got into a

power struggle trying to micromanage their. Don't cost me.

I'm gonna do what I want with my truck. I'm not doing. You're right. We

can get almost, like, competitive in play. Or

it's like fear, right? We fear like, oh, my God, control me.

I'm like, becoming a pimmers of parent. Right? Or is my child

gonna grow up to be bossy and then not have friends or be a bully

or, you know, fear starts to creep. We

have to come back to this idea of, is this within my

boundaries or not? Is this something of

consequence or is it inconsequential? Right.

Play is the job of the child. Let the child lead

the play. It's so fun. Yeah, I love it. I think that's a great

distinct distinguishing factor for parents, because

it can be, you're like, okay, I need to give my

kids control. And then you're like, here, but there.

And so when we create kind of buckets of like, yeah, and play, this is

a great place to allow for that and. And be there.

But then, you know, while they're, you

know, you're talking to your partner, like you said, or

disciplining another child or something like that, then they don't need to be in

there getting in the business. Right? Exactly. Yeah.

Okay, great. Okay. So when you talk about.

So the essential conflicts really is. Do you think it's really around

you make a command and then your kid says no, and then

you're like, what do I do? And then you repeat

and then you escalate. Like, what do you think of these, like,

you know, essential conflicts between toddlers and parents?

And then like. Or myths that parents have about toddlers, like, where. Where does that.

That frustration come from for parents in

these toddler moments? Some of it, education. We've got that one. But what else

comes up?

So the frustration for parents largely comes from

this idea. Several ideas. First, the

myth of control. Thinking that they should be able to control their

child because that's what the world tells us, right? Because there

isn't a lot of stuff, space in the world for

toddlers to be toddlers and have that developmentally

appropriate behavior. So true. I just actually want to pause there because,

man, it is so hard.

Like, if I see a little kid in this. In the world having

a meltdown, I'm like, oh, that person. That kid is having

a hard time. You know, like, I have so much compassion, but I'm also a

parent educator and, you know, been in it. But for the most

part, we do feel judged. We do feel

like we're not doing it right. And it's like kids

just have feelings that they don't know what to do with, and they have

desires that are unmet and they're frustrated or they go meet them and their

desires that are unsafe or whatever, and

then that happens. And I think you're right. Like, there's this myth

that if I have a kid who's misbehaving, I've done

something wrong. Yeah, absolutely.

Because that's what, like, the world is telling us, right?

And so society is kind of holding us to unrealistic expectations

here. And so that kind of leads into the next thing is that,

you know, not only is control an illusion that we can't control our

kids, we can influence them positively or negatively, but you

can't make your child be a certain way

that leads into the next one, which is

kids should be able to listen. The first time. I remember when I was

raising my kids, people, my friends had, like, the first time club.

They were really working on their kids, trying to get them to listen the

first time. And I was like, what? I don't know. It

didn't resonate for me. It was. It required a lot of fear, required a lot

of control over the child. So behavior that just

didn't align for me, right. Which comes through fear,

coercion, shame, blame, guilt, judgment. Those are the tools. And

physical. Physical pain. Even, like at this young age, spanking,

pinching, grabbing too tight, right? Like, kind of creating

coercion. But through the physical, like this physical dominance. The age

that most kids are hit, right? 2 to 4, 95% of

kids are spanked or something like that. Maybe it's gone down, but. But it's.

I think parents think they need that control, and then they use those

Tactics, for sure. Right. And what we know

is that in the long run, this doesn't help kids

in terms of creating that foundation for emotional resilience

and, you know, to have the skills that they

need to be successful in the world. And there's, you know, bodies and

bodies of research out there on that. And so this is where I

feel very strongly in supporting parents for implementing what

I like to call developmentally smart discipline, which is

creating connection, setting limits and falling through,

and teaching skills. We need all three ingredients of the

recipe to, you know, get to

where we want to go and to support our kids. Kind of like if you're

baking a cupcake, you wouldn't just like, be like, I'm not going to put any

flour in here. I'm not going to put, you know, wouldn't just omit part of

the recipe. Right, yeah. Although right now people are like, I'm putting all sorts

of weird stuff in cupcakes, but a classic cupcake. Right, right. Classic

ingredients. Well, you'd probably put some type of replacement in. Right.

Because at least. Yeah, good point. Exactly. So the thing is,

is that when we start looking at how can

we create connections so our child feels seen and heard.

Right. Which is not what we're doing when we are in the role of the

controlling commander, which is what I call when we're using those co

parenting tactics, a child does not feel seen and heard.

Um, and so we want our child to feel seen and heard,

but we also need to set limits and follow through on them.

And that's not happening if we're over here as the permissive

pushover, walking on eggshells and constantly pacifying our child.

They have way too much power. Right. So either there we

have too much power or the child has too much power. So

what we want to do is get to this place where we get off of

this continuum and. And say, as the

adult, it's my job to be in charge. It's my job to guide

my child, to support my child, to teach my child,

but not teach your child a lesson. Like we might do with like, okay, I'm

gonna pinch him or spank them and teach him a lesson. No, to teach your

child the skills they need to be successful.

And that's why the teaching skills piece is so important.

So good. Yeah, I love it. And yes.

I mean, it's calm connect limits that. Correct. And that correction

piece is really about the skill building. Right. So very aligned with what,

What? Because people listening, they're like, is this the same? Is this different? Right. They

want to, like, not learn a hundred different things. I think parents are so

overwhelmed. So, yeah, I love it. It's exactly aligned with my work

and, like, what we're doing. And it's interesting. When I first started

teaching parenting in 2012, I had to

tell parents that feelings mattered, that it wasn't all about

limits and rules and consequences. And then in the 10 year

shift from Gen X to millennial parents, I've had to say,

oh, limits matter. It's like they got the

message that feelings matter. And I love that. I love this validation and

this great thing. But then now it's like, well, I'm afraid of

setting boundaries or following through on them and

holding accountability. And it's

just fascinating to me to watch this paradigm shift. And then I do feel like

we're coming back to some alignment in, in parent education

to go, like, find the balance between permissive and

authoritarian. Like, we're getting back to the authoritative model.

And so what are some of those strategies? Like,

in the moment, your kids like, no, I'm

not. I don't have to do it. You're not the boss of me. Like, you

know, when they start to get those words in, what do you suggest

to parents at that? Like, three, four, kind of.

Yes. Well, it depends on if you set a limit that you're

willing to follow through on, or if you set a limit and then you're like,

oh, man, I set a limit. And honestly, this doesn't

really matter in the bigger scheme of life. Or they're like, I don't want to

eat these chicken nuggets. You're like, you're eating those. And then all of a sudden

you're like, I actually don't care. You can have a sandwich like that, right?

Yeah. Or like, you, you know, you tell your

child that they, like, have to do something. You're like, oh, wait, does that really.

They really have to right now? Anyway, so, you know, it depends. But

one way that we can come up, come and

respond to this behavior. So starting with connection,

one way of doing this is to say, well, what's

your plan? Or what's your idea? Especially if you have a

strong willed child, because oftentimes kids

will push against us. And then

we think, oh, they're just being bad, they're being rude, they're being, you know, whatever

all the labels we put on it. But really they already have a plan

that they're trying to execute and we're getting in the way. And if we understood

their plan, we'd be like, oh, all Right. They were gonna go do

this and then that. Sure, why

not? Right. And so when we can get curious in that way,

that's. That can be really helpful. But then there's other times where,

like, things are a non negotiable. Right. So you might

say something like, here's your

snack. And your child goes, no, no, I don't want

that. You know, so you, maybe you

said, like, oh, well, what's your idea? And they said, well, I wanted candy

and pop Tarts and. Or I wanted a yogurt instead. Or

I, you know, like, maybe it's not a bad idea. It's.

If it's not a bad idea, then. You say something like, oh,

well, that's a great idea. That would be fine.

And then you move on. But if it's not within your boundaries, you have to

say something like, well, this is what we're having for

snack today. I'm gonna put it here. No,

no, no, it's okay. If you don't want to eat it, you can.

You can choose to eat it whenever you want. It's your decision. Your decision. See,

you're giving them that control, but then you walk away. Yeah. You

don't stand there to see what they do. Because the longer you

stand there and engage in the power struggle,

the more likely they are to keep pushing because they think

there's a chance that this might work. Work. Not because they're

trying to be manipulative, but because toddlers are strategic in

getting their needs met and they keep tabs of what has worked

in the past. And so they're going. They are not manipulative.

They are. But they are manipulating the moment in order to get what they want.

Right. Like, we do it too. And if it's effective,

they'll keep going with it. What you're saying, Right. If they're like,

this has worked in the past, or this. This could work. You know, there's

some. It's not like, oh, I'm gonna mess with my

parents. It's more like, how can I get what I want right now? Right.

But manipulation, though, has such a negative. It does, for sure. It's

truly not even fair to call it manipulation because then parents

start getting triggered because we have a lot of baggage

around words like manipulation. For disrespect.

Yes, for sure. Yeah. So it can become a, like a place where parents

start getting triggered and then they start automatically reacting

instead of intentionally responding. Which is why I like to call it being strategic.

Because this is the positive reframe of what a child

is doing there. Children are very smart. They're

very good at getting their needs met because it. Their survival

depends on it. Their survival depends on it because kids are

not able to go cook their food at 2 and 3 years old and do

all these things. Go to the grocery store and buy the food. Yeah, right. As

just one example of many things. And so when we

reframe this behavior as a child, trying to get

their needs met, being strategic, keeping tabs on what

has worked in the past, what hasn't, then we're like, oh,

okay, so I need to send the message that I'm in charge

here, that I'm the leader and guide. And so you say, it's okay,

you can eat this if you want. It's here for when you're ready. And then

you walk away. And maybe you go, start. Get out a toy, you start playing

a game, start reading a book. After five to ten minutes, or

maybe even less. I've had it happen in like, literally 30 seconds.

Protesting over plate has been picked up. And then,

you know, child, they've moved on. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And that's

what I've noticed is the trust that's required, that

your child's also wired to comply. Like, they also

know it's in their best interest to keep the

adults in their life not happy. That's not people pleasing. I'm just

saying, like, they know that they're little and they know that you know best, and

they kind of do want to, quote,

unquote, be good or what. I don't know. I don't want to act like, I

don't want to put words in there that make people feel uncomfortable, but it's like

they're just kind of like, eh. And then they're like, okay, it's over and they

can move on and we can trust that. And the more we practice holding a

boundary, letting it be, watching the process, the easier it is

for us to relax in that moment and not feel. Feel like it's an

emergency. We have to get right in there and like, if they don't eat their

snack, they're gonna have a big temper. Tantrum later and they're gonna. Like, we kind

of can get panicked and it's like, maybe they won't eat. Maybe they're actually

truly not hungry. Who knows? Let them figure that out. And

a lot of times that emotional

shift happens and they are more compliant. Yeah. So

it's. It's a few different things. It's. First of all, I've

a child's fear biggest Fear is losing our unconditional love

and acceptance. And I feel like that's what you were just trying to speak to

there is, like, that. That concept of, you know,

ultimately, kids are not out to make

our lives hard or to,

like, be bad. Like, they actually rely on us

so much. And their biggest fear is losing that unconditional love and

acceptance. So children truly do want to please us, but that

developmental drive gets in the way a lot of the time, which is

why they push against us. And then, you know, when

kids see that we follow through and

that we're serious and that we've set that limit, that

limits provide, that sense of security and safety. So kids will

typically melt into that when they feel like that

when. When they're able to accept it. And kids are more readily able to

accept the limits when the limits are consistent. Remember, that doesn't mean perfect,

but predictable. Yes, predictable. It's so

true. And I think anybody who's kind of

practiced these parenting strategies does start to

see, like, okay, I just be like, well, take it

or leave it, and then they'll take it. Right?

And you can diffuse a lot of those things. And.

Okay, so as we wrap, like, I. I noticed on your.

You have a course called Disarming and

Preventing Power Struggles on your website, and it looked really interesting. And you

wrote about one mindset shift that you would recommend to

parents. And I was just curious, like, if you would share that

mindset shift that really kind of that. That final takeaway for

anyone listening. Yeah. Yes. It stopped trying to win.

Stop trying to win. Right. And this is the thing.

Sometimes we don't even realize it, but we're wired, right? Because when

we get triggered and we go into our stress response, into

that fight or flight mode, we are inadvertently

trying to win. So the more we can practice

creating physical safety, realizing it's not an emergency,

and disrupting that stress response, we can come back

to our upper brain, realize, whoa, what was I

trying to do there? This is not a battle to win.

My child is not the enemy. And then you're

able to take a deep breath and then start creating

connections, setting limits and falling through and teaching skills, coming

up alongside your child, holding their hand and guiding

them. But if we're trying to win, about

everything we talked about today is going to feel nearly impossible

to implement. And so that is the biggest mindset

shift of power struggles. That. And also what I said before, which is it takes

two people to be in a power struggle. That can be my kind of the

same concept, right? That if I'M trying to win, that means I think I'm

in some sort of competition, right? And if there's nothing

to win or lose, like, there's no struggle, there's no competition. And

then I'm not going to be, you know, trying to win anything, nor am I

going to be struggling. It's like, yeah. Oh. Because those

messy moments, they're not problems to be fixed. But when we're

in the mode of trying to win and we're in that stress response, it looks

like these are a million problems that need fixed. Because if we don't, then X,

Y and Z is going to happen and we start extrapolating and, you know, all

the fears and everything. But really they're just

opportunities. Opportunities for learning and growth for

your child and for yourself. Opportunities to build

the relationship. Opportunities to build your child's

development, their brain connections, their

skills. It's all opportunities. So helpful.

Thank you very much. So tell us, like, I'm sure people

can get your book on Amazon or where whatever books are sold.

So tell us just the title and, like, also how to track you down in

the world. Yes. So again, the book's called Transforming

Toddlerhood, and you can buy it wherever books are sold or you can go to

my website, transforming toddlerhood.com and then backslash book

to find all the retailers there. And if you want to continue

this conversation, I'd love to hear from you. You can find me at Transforming

Toddlerhood on Instagram and send me a dm. And

yeah, they continue the conversation. All the sandbox questions

will be coming your way. Yeah, good. Well, thank you so much

for being on our podcast. Thank you so much for having me. It was

really fun.