Stars on Sports Intro: It's time for Stars on Sports! A podcast-radio show dedicated to sharing stories about our athletic program at Lansing Community College. LCC athletics has a strong tradition. 24 national championship wins! Over 170 All-Americans! 19 MCCAA All Sports trophies! Stars on Sports will introduce you to individuals that have contributed to our program success and give you the backstory on what it takes to develop it. We'll also dive into and break down the topics and issues facing athletic departments across the nation and right here at LCC. This is Stars on Sports!

Hello and welcome to another episode of Stars on Sports Sports. I'm joined by our assistant Athletic director Steven Cutter and our producer Jereny Robinson today and we'll be discussing the Transburg Portal Gentlemen and as we record this podcast, it is a hot topic in the world of college sports and it definitely impacts us here at LCC. Not to the level of the topic in college sports. It's mainly a football topic right now across that landscape, but it is a topic across all of college sports and we've talked a little bit about it here in the past when we talked about recruiting and how that impacts our situation here at LCC. We have 190 student athletes and we probably have around 20 transfer students, some sports more than others, and we'll talk about that. And then again we have a number of our students that transfer on after LCC here and we'll also hit those numbers throughout there. So we have talked about it before in our recruiting part of our podcast, but I wanted to dive more into the transfer portal. Very interesting statistics out there. Increase of 44%. The transfer portal started in 2018, really started with graduate transfers which wouldn't have impacted us. Actually though this year we do have a graduate transfer on our cross country team. He graduated from a four year and came here and is running cross country for us, but he did not participate in sports at his other school. You get two years here but very interesting and it's going to be something we have to watch and navigate through. I read a great article this morning regarding NJCA transfers in football that in like 2018 we had 60 something student athletes transfer to Division 1 and last year it was down to 40ish or below. And it's because of the transfer portal and part of our recruiting message is come here and bet on yourself. And because traditionally in the past if you went to another level institution you were usually at that institution for four years. But now with the transfer portal we're seeing some of the best at NAI Division 3 Division 2 moving up to that next level. So I think that's why it's impacted some of our numbers. I still believe we're in a good situation. If you develop kids, it's just like winning and you do the right things, you, you will be able to transfer to the school that hopefully is a good fit for you. And there's a lot of things regarding fit in the transfer portal. Any quick takes on the transfer portal?

I think we're still in a good spot being at the junior college level. So we still have a life preserver on and we're still floating in a really good spot. It's really the high school students that are struggling the most with the transfer portal. And it's because the colleges, whether it's football, basketball, baseball, softball, whatever it might be, they're taking the kids that have the experience, the prior experience. So the prior experience at the junior college level, the prior experience at the Division 1, the NCAA level more than they're taking the kids that are just coming straight out of high school and don't have that experience yet.

And you're right again because you're getting someone with experience that two or three years, even if they're walk on. There's a lot of walk ons in the portal, but they still have and practice every day. And when the transfer portal came out, you hit on two points I'd like to really touch base on. When it came out I was actually in favor of a one time transfer because I know how difficult a decision is for high school kids to make that next level decision on maybe a couple visits or a coach. And there have been a lot of coaching changes and we see a lot of student athletes following coaches to that next college. So that's an integral part of this transfer portion portal. But and the second thing is I still think you're right. We are still in a good spot because we still get kids that transfer after going to a four year institution and don't like it. One of the most interesting statistics I saw out there was 57% of the people in the transfer portal enroll in a new school, 43% are still in there or in another school. And so that's actually a pool that we're getting that this article alluded to that, you know, they come to junior college for a year or two depending on how much eligibility and then try and go back there. So you're right, I think we're still are in a good situation, but it's definitely something that impacts us and we have to navigate through and pay attention and maybe adapt a little bit, like you said, even with, you know, that high school message or that message of students coming from those other institutions. At LCC, men's basketball and baseball seem to be our two sports that have used transfers. I don't wanna say the most, but had the most number of transfers. And looking at national trends, I went through and looked at all the nine sports we offered. That is the trend in those sports nationally too, like in the Division 1 portal. In men's basketball and baseball, there's around 1100 student athletes. And women's basketball and softball would be next for us. Not many, but they've discussed it. And then you look at volleyball, cross country, track, and those are small. And the track and cross country number, they're under a couple hundred. Volleyball was 600. So those sports seem to be less. And those numbers represent what happens here at LCC. And again, your sport is one of them that has one of those larger transfer numbers. And we've benefited from it, you know, in a sense that we've gotten some great student athletes here that have transferred from other institutions and we've also had our number go on to great experiences after.

Here at LCC, it's just really a trickle down effect. You know, at the NCAA level you can be at a Power 5 and you can have transfers come in and you've already recruited in high school. You know, your recruiting class of say at the baseball level, it's 7 to maybe 13 or whatever it might be. And then you have transfers come in. They've got the experience. They might have two or three years of experience, maybe four. They're, they come in and those high school kids get there and they realize that they're probably not going to play for a while and then the trickle down effect begins. And that's where they start kind of kicking back and going places like junior colleges and stuff like that. So it starts at the top and goes all the way down. You'll see Division 3 kids that think maybe they can play Division 1 now and get Division 1 offers. And so then they're trying to go to a junior college or trying to go someplace else so they can move up. So it's just, it's a cycle and it's certainly not going anywhere.

No, I don't think so. There might be some parameter changes or some, some adjustments to it, but you're right, it's not going anywhere. And playing time used to probably be the number one issue of kids transferring, but that is not the case with some of the news that came out this week, you had starting quarterbacks that lost very few games, lost a game

and they're going in it.

So there are a number of variables and another area you and I hit on earlier this morning when we did our pre podcast sample was the characteristics that lead students to transfer. Where they fit and where they can succeed is usually number one on the list. But the other benefit we talked about that kind of just came up with our academic program here at LCC or junior colleges. We have a wide variety of athletic or academic program that aren't really specific that allows kids to, to refocus their major, refocus their academic and get some of those classes out of the way before. Because the other big thing is most kids don't know what they want to do with their lives in college. I would that way and I don't know if you do or that way but there's still maturity and development issues. As we talked about experience being a key factor of the transfer portal, but helping make those decisions where the number of degrees or classes we have offered might help us compared to some of these college specific programs at the four year institution. So again it's, it's crazy. We're fortunate, you know, we're also able to sell the back end where you know, we have a third to half of our student athletes that move on to four year institutions after they play here in every sport. We've had all, all levels, Division 1 down to the NAI level depending on the year, what levels those are. But we're very fortunate for our student athletes to be able to pursue those opportunities even after they finish here. And you know, some of the coolest comments I've heard this fall from some of our student athletes is man, I wish LCC was a four year institution because they enjoyed it, their experience here that much. So that's huge. And being transparent and frank, unless it's a better opportunity. We, you know, we have a pretty good retention rate here at LCC. Now we have had a handful that just after one year it wasn't a good fit that they did transfer to another junior college or even were able to still go higher. But the conversations and discussions I've had with student athletes, you know, I think our retention rate's pretty good positively, you know, we've had our share that have been able to go on to the high level after one year but most stay but only a handful and I'd say six or less gone because it just wasn't a good fit here. Would you Agree with those numbers.

I think the numbers are pretty close on those for sure. It often makes me wonder though, with the poor portal and the sheer numbers that are in the portal every year. And then of course, many of them don't actually go somewhere. You know, those. You hear the stories, the positive stories, but you don't typically hear the other side of it. But it does make you wonder a little bit about the mental toughness, facing adversity, things like that early on in the college career, and then just kind of bailing on it too. And so it's a very interesting thing to look at. And there's many, many, many facets of the portal grad.

You brought that up. That was on my notes to hit that when this transfer portal started. The argument against it is we're not helping kids handle adversity. And there's still, I would say two prominent coaches out there, one in basketball and one in. In football, that don't really recruit transfer.

There's some in baseball as well.

Yeah, yeah. And in every sport, I'm sure. But you know, very vocal about it. And. And that is there is some truth to that merit. You know, like whenever a kid comes to me and wants to quit, you know, I always try, my first argument to him is, well, that's the easy thing to do. And the first time you quit, it's easier the next time. Just like when you, when you run the first time you walk, it's easier to walk that next time. And then we've. I didn't look these numbers up. It'd be interesting to see how many transfer more than once after they transfer one time. And I'm sure The number not 50%, but it probably staggering. And that is a great argument that hopefully it's the right reason they transfer because we do want them to still handle adversity, being able to stick it through tough times and learn from that. Because the other argument is you're not always gonna like your boss, you know, that you still gotta find ways to deal with things that, you know, don't let the coach be that final decision. That was more prevalent at the high school level than here at the college level. But as you re recruit kids to

fit your program, but so interesting you bring that up does make me think a little bit. Do you think that you're gonna start seeing the high school levels open up a little bit more for transfers? Because I think we're gonna see the junior college stuff definitely open up too. You think that's gonna trickle down at

some point where already Has. I believe it has. And each state had their own set of rules. Michigan's one of the stricter set of rules of transferring. So kids are learning the ways around that. But it's already happening, you know, with these. If you're on a strong travel team, it seems, you know, these kids want to play together or, you know, gravitate to certain schools in that particular area. So it's happening. It's, you know, it's definitely going to trickle down to that. That area. If it hasn't, I think it has across the country, and even, you know, these prep schools and other entities have, I think, grown that kids feel they might have to transfer because some kids feel they have to be in a school that is recruitable to be able to succeed at the highest level. So Almost a catch 22. If your program's not where it need to be, those kids might try and go somewhere else. And you see some of the most successful programs at the high school level, where all those kids are from, and the majority are still from their local district, but they might have been able to sprinkle in some from some of.

That's the assumption that the grass is always greener, too, though, and that's not necessarily always the case. Sometimes it is. Sometimes the school is providing a better education and better athletics and better coaches and better environment and everything else, but sometimes the grass is not always greener. And you're doing that comparison theory all the time, which ends up being the thief of joy. And so you got to be really careful with some of those decisions. Decisions.

That was actually going to be my other podcast theme today, because watching a great movie on prime last night, and it was Morgan Freeman, who then is one of my favorite actors, and he used that line, that comparison is the thief of joy. And I'm thinking, you know, that's on my list of podcasts.

I thought we were going Ted Lasso again.

I love that we can go Ted Lasso every day and fill our content. But you're right, the grass is greener always seems to be that denominator of why people do transfer also. Right. In the sense that it's not always. And in some cases, you got to look internally why that may or may not be. And I'm hoping that's still a variable in all, this is what's best for you. And that's all we want for any student athlete is what's best for them, what the best. We want them to succeed. What's the best situation for you? And we hope it's here at LCC and we hope we can provide you the resources to succeed. And I know that the case at many colleges across the country. But in the end, you know, when you look at law of averages and we've talked about that small average here at LCC it isn't the best for anyone. But hopefully we try and help them find that spot so that it's not another bad experience. And that's the problem when you look at these numbers. You know, I think some people don't aren't able to go to the best situation for them because it's very competitive

now I think most of the numbers are showing out that the reasons are playing time still. So comes down to playing time or expected playing time. And then there's the percentages that are just leaving because they're not quite good enough or they feel it's hurting their stock one way shape or form. But most of them come down to playing time just a lack of. Or they think they can maybe get a little more and do a little bit better someplace else.

And I would agree, I do still believe at playing time I would think a coaching change is in there. I think location also if a kid goes far away, you know, that's another variable. But it is playing time. And I get that because. Because the transfer portal has helped that too. You know, and it almost burned itself because other kids are transferring in that a kid think they're going to get playing time but another kid student athlete comes in that might be a little better or might positions are a large part of the transfer portal and you might know better than in baseball what positions have a higher rate. But I saw some studies there where it's very positional in sports of certain number transferring over for others and the demand for those in some of these sports there's still a demand because there are not enough of those positions in the transfer portal.

Yeah, certainly true but.

But it's a number of factors and you're right, it's definitely something we're not getting away from. It's definitely something I know our department is paying attention to and we'll embrace it in a positive way. I think we have a lot to sell here at LCC for those that are might be wanting to transfer in. But also though that when they come on campus as freshmen that we can give them a good experience and keep them here and then help them do what they want to do. Do aptalk about numbers after that. You know, some just want to be done with sports when this. I Wonder if that 43% out there. How many do end up playing somewhere else or if those numbers get lost in the shuffle? So as anything there's good and bad to the transfer portal, our philosophy always is to try and take the good and make it better and help solve the bad. And in this case, I still, even though we're five years in, I still think it's really changed over the last couple years. And again, the numbers show this year the numbers are significantly higher. So at some time it's going to, I would think, plateau that we'll figure out where we fit into that. But why we're here today is we feel we're in a good situation, still

in a really good spot. And, you know, it's still, still about the experiences you hit on and a little bit and we could have a long discussion about, you know, what's more important, the playing time or the experience experience that they're given from their, you know, their college universities. So it really just comes down to what they're looking for. And you know, jokingly, the travel organizations, you brought them up, they, they have a transfer portal and it's happening, you know, basically weekly at the youth levels. And, and so it's, it's really everywhere. And it's, I guess in some ways it's good because you have that freedom that you can make decisions that you think are going to benefit you for the, you know, the better. And then there's also the other side of it that just is you're not really doing a super good job with consistency and adversity and, you know, fighting through some stuff.

And both end of us doing a good job of finding ways to show the student athlete they're valued. You're right to provide a good experience. Those are the things they remember, those team bonding things, those dog piles. Maybe more than the actual minutes played. You know, we had a great success situation. We've hit on a couple times in this about the baseball player you threw in the last inning that was strong enough to be thrown in. It's both sides and it's about handling both sides of that. And you're right, we're going to do everything we can to bring kids on campus that represent us well and then keep them here when they're here. Unless we can get them into a better situation. That's our goal too. If they can go on and be better. That's another part of the podcast that we can, could spend a long time on it. And you brought up a quick point real quick. I know we're Wrapping up. But there is a statistic out there. That kid that did transfer in high school usually ended up transferring in high school, in college, too, that those numbers were pretty high in some of these sports, that in those states that where these kids had transferred, that they ended up transferring in college, too,

In some

ways becomes your comfort zone. Once you do something, you feel a little more comfortable with it. And so, I mean, you hit on earlier with, like, quitting, but the opposite side of the coin is winning. You know, if you start winning, you become more comfortable with it. You understand what it takes, you have a pretty good idea of what you need to do, and then winning, you become comfortable with. And so that's really the comfort zone for people and why you see some of this stuff, if they're going to transfer once, they'll transfer twice. We've seen kids that have been to four different schools in four years, so.

So, yeah, and real quickly, and you know, we've received kids from many different levels, including other community colleges that have transferred to us. And again, we're open to that. It has to be the right fit. It still becomes down to roster management. You know, a lot of people have talked about still managing your roster, and we talked about getting kids on the bus to be able to handle that. But in the end, the law of averages, you're gonna deal with it one way or the other. And here at llc, we're going to work hard and trying to make it first a positive experience for our student athletes, but then embracing what we can do to help all of them one way or the other. And just as long as none of the three of us enter the transfer portal before our next podcast. All right, as always, a good conversation. And until next time, Go Stars.

Stars on Sports Outro: Stars on Sports is recorded live at the WLNZ studios. Engineering and production assistance are provided by Daedalian Lowry. You can listen to this episode and other episodes of Stars on Sports on demand at LCCconnect.org to find more information about our athletic program, visit LCCstars.com thanks for listening. Go Stars!