1 00:00:09,900 --> 00:00:13,499 Hello and welcome to The Art Engager podcast. 2 00:00:13,500 --> 00:00:14,230 I'm Claire Bown. 3 00:00:14,780 --> 00:00:19,000 Here to help you create more engaging experiences in 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,549 museums and cultural spaces. 5 00:00:21,610 --> 00:00:26,600 This podcast is all about unlocking the potential of engagement. 6 00:00:27,030 --> 00:00:32,409 We'll be exploring key practices that transform how you connect with 7 00:00:32,539 --> 00:00:35,859 art, objects, people, and ideas. 8 00:00:36,299 --> 00:00:41,029 Together we'll dive into techniques that spark curiosity, foster 9 00:00:41,079 --> 00:00:42,919 dialogue, and build deeper. 10 00:00:44,809 --> 00:00:47,300 Let's get started with today's episode. 11 00:00:52,739 --> 00:00:56,449 Hello and welcome to a new episode of The Art Engager. 12 00:00:57,100 --> 00:01:01,470 Today I'm chatting with museum educator and project manager Anja Høegh. 13 00:01:02,190 --> 00:01:06,180 Anja's worked in museums for over 20 years, focusing on education, 14 00:01:06,530 --> 00:01:10,620 exhibitions, and making museums more engaging and accessible. 15 00:01:10,690 --> 00:01:11,449 For everyone. 16 00:01:11,910 --> 00:01:15,720 With a background in teaching art, media, and theatre, and experience 17 00:01:15,759 --> 00:01:20,280 as a director and stage designer, she brings a unique perspective to 18 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,100 her current role at Museum Salling. 19 00:01:23,890 --> 00:01:27,860 In this episode, we talk about the importance of making connections, 20 00:01:28,239 --> 00:01:33,300 the challenges of building trust with visitors, and how to keep them engaged. 21 00:01:33,730 --> 00:01:39,210 Anja shares how she uses sensory experiences slow looking, and activities 22 00:01:39,210 --> 00:01:43,290 like drawing yoga to help visitors connect with each other and the 23 00:01:43,290 --> 00:01:45,780 artworks or objects they're looking at. 24 00:01:46,370 --> 00:01:47,419 You're in for a treat. 25 00:01:47,839 --> 00:01:48,489 Enjoy. 26 00:01:50,830 --> 00:01:53,840 Hi, Anja, and welcome to The Art Engager podcast. 27 00:01:54,779 --> 00:01:55,629 Thank you, Claire. 28 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:57,170 So glad to be here. 29 00:01:57,615 --> 00:01:58,965 I'm delighted you're here. 30 00:01:59,005 --> 00:02:02,185 Could you tell us who you are and what you do? 31 00:02:02,875 --> 00:02:06,745 Yeah, my name is Anja Høegh, and I'm from Denmark. 32 00:02:06,865 --> 00:02:12,845 And right now I'm working on a project that's called Art and Cultural Laboratory. 33 00:02:13,484 --> 00:02:16,614 And it's at a museum in the northern part of Denmark. 34 00:02:17,075 --> 00:02:21,425 and then I have some of my own small projects about art and theatre. 35 00:02:21,855 --> 00:02:27,595 But mainly the arts and cultural laboratory has my sort of main focus. 36 00:02:28,405 --> 00:02:29,445 It's a big project. 37 00:02:30,275 --> 00:02:31,855 So, what brought you to here? 38 00:02:32,225 --> 00:02:36,775 Because you've got quite an interesting background, theatrical design. 39 00:02:36,815 --> 00:02:39,835 Tell us a little bit about how you got into museums. 40 00:02:40,565 --> 00:02:43,995 Yeah I really wanted to be a stage designer and a costume designer. 41 00:02:44,015 --> 00:02:48,595 But I got arthritis when I was 13, so I had to change my way in a way. 42 00:02:49,125 --> 00:02:53,385 And when I was studying to be a teacher, I went to an internship at the 43 00:02:53,385 --> 00:02:55,925 Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. 44 00:02:55,925 --> 00:03:02,785 And That's probably where my sort of curiosity started in what could this 45 00:03:02,805 --> 00:03:04,815 place actually be and what could it do? 46 00:03:05,295 --> 00:03:11,275 And I had these really great experiences on Mondays when the museum was closed 47 00:03:11,735 --> 00:03:15,225 and there was nobody there except the guards, of course, but nobody 48 00:03:15,225 --> 00:03:16,705 was there, so it was very quiet. 49 00:03:17,235 --> 00:03:19,155 And I think some of that. 50 00:03:20,225 --> 00:03:23,675 story in a way, and also the possibilities that I got at the 51 00:03:23,675 --> 00:03:28,105 museum when I was an intern, turned on my curiosity to say, okay, that 52 00:03:28,105 --> 00:03:30,875 might be a road for me at some point. 53 00:03:30,905 --> 00:03:35,025 And then I got the opportunity some years later, and now I've been in 54 00:03:35,025 --> 00:03:36,865 the business for about 20 years. 55 00:03:36,865 --> 00:03:39,325 And you've worked at a variety of different museums. 56 00:03:39,685 --> 00:03:43,015 Previously to Museum Saling, you were at a much larger museum. 57 00:03:43,015 --> 00:03:46,395 Do you want to tell us about some of the projects you've worked on previously? 58 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:51,690 Yeah, I was a team lead in our education team for both nature and culture 59 00:03:52,090 --> 00:03:54,190 for about eight and a half years. 60 00:03:54,650 --> 00:03:59,660 And then I was fortunate enough to also be a project lead in some of 61 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,880 our exhibitions and our museums. 62 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:07,300 And I think that one of the things that I'm really proud of 63 00:04:07,330 --> 00:04:12,100 is when we had to rebuild a museum that's called Nymindegab Museum. 64 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:13,600 It's on the west coast. 65 00:04:13,610 --> 00:04:14,960 It's a beautiful place. 66 00:04:15,460 --> 00:04:20,105 And we had to say, okay, now we have to rethink the story here. 67 00:04:20,135 --> 00:04:21,135 What are we going to do? 68 00:04:21,685 --> 00:04:27,195 And I really think that it grasped a lot of the ways to engage in an 69 00:04:27,195 --> 00:04:32,165 experience together as a family, for instance, but also both for young and 70 00:04:32,165 --> 00:04:36,415 adults when they come to visit the museum as a school class or whatever. 71 00:04:36,865 --> 00:04:41,295 So that's one of the things that I'm really proud to have been able to 72 00:04:41,295 --> 00:04:46,935 participate in and it's a great thing to experience people's joy when they 73 00:04:46,975 --> 00:04:52,945 visit the museum and they see the vast variety of things that they can engage in. 74 00:04:53,575 --> 00:05:02,115 And then we have had some projects with local schools that we've developed a 75 00:05:02,145 --> 00:05:07,380 different kind of workshops for the kids from all the way down to when 76 00:05:07,380 --> 00:05:12,370 they're before nursery school, actually, and all the way up to ninth grade. 77 00:05:12,830 --> 00:05:17,870 And that's been interesting to also be in the project group about how do we do this? 78 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:22,790 how do we combine art and culture and nature in these workshops that 79 00:05:22,790 --> 00:05:25,010 the kids have to go and visit? 80 00:05:25,420 --> 00:05:31,035 So that's a, Two big things that I've just come to mind that I'm real 81 00:05:31,065 --> 00:05:33,475 proud of participating in, yeah. 82 00:05:34,175 --> 00:05:36,895 So a wide variety of projects there. 83 00:05:36,925 --> 00:05:40,745 And from our previous conversation as well, I get the sense that we 84 00:05:40,745 --> 00:05:43,265 have lots of things in common, lots of things that we're passionate 85 00:05:43,265 --> 00:05:44,995 about, enthusiastic about. 86 00:05:45,335 --> 00:05:50,035 I see your connections between museums and nature and art and 87 00:05:50,075 --> 00:05:54,525 objects, but also connecting people with museums, the senses. 88 00:05:55,175 --> 00:05:59,655 Tell me about some of the values that inform and drive your work. 89 00:05:59,915 --> 00:06:04,950 Yeah, I think I've always been interested in how to connect things. 90 00:06:05,590 --> 00:06:10,300 And I think the wanting to be a stage designer or a costume 91 00:06:10,350 --> 00:06:13,730 designer, you can be able to connect things like a puzzle in a way. 92 00:06:14,100 --> 00:06:18,860 So I think that's just broadened out in my work that I've had to work with 93 00:06:18,930 --> 00:06:24,105 a lot of different people's education background or their cultural background. 94 00:06:24,425 --> 00:06:30,015 And I think that's very interesting to see that a person who is mainly 95 00:06:30,045 --> 00:06:34,795 based in their art world can connect with somebody that's mainly based 96 00:06:34,795 --> 00:06:36,895 in the nature or science world. 97 00:06:37,095 --> 00:06:41,935 so connecting for me is the essence of what I think that both a museum 98 00:06:41,935 --> 00:06:48,080 can do or other experience places are able to do, if we want to. 99 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,095 Of course it can also be a hard task. 100 00:06:50,595 --> 00:06:54,740 But I think the connecting is what drives me even though it's hard 101 00:06:54,740 --> 00:06:57,070 to get these languages together. 102 00:06:57,450 --> 00:07:04,890 And also, connecting with the visitors in the museum is also a big part of my job. 103 00:07:05,290 --> 00:07:11,185 How is the connecting established from when you enter the door or 104 00:07:11,215 --> 00:07:12,955 even before you enter the door. 105 00:07:13,275 --> 00:07:17,405 And we've actually made a study group and I think I started the study 106 00:07:17,405 --> 00:07:20,875 group maybe in 2019 or something. 107 00:07:21,305 --> 00:07:25,885 And then Corona of course hit, but then one of my old colleagues 108 00:07:25,955 --> 00:07:30,595 re engaged the group and we still talk about these challenges that 109 00:07:30,595 --> 00:07:32,555 we have with how do we connect? 110 00:07:33,110 --> 00:07:36,780 we meet up every three months and we talk about these things and it's a good 111 00:07:36,780 --> 00:07:40,220 way to really dive into what it means. 112 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,770 Tell me about some of those challenges that you mentioned there. 113 00:07:43,970 --> 00:07:50,210 What are the unique challenges that we have as educators, as museum people, with 114 00:07:50,260 --> 00:07:52,260 connecting with people in the museum? 115 00:07:52,730 --> 00:07:57,810 Yeah, I think that sometimes when you take a big museum all these groups that 116 00:07:57,810 --> 00:08:04,140 actually work together with the hosts or the booking people or you as an educator 117 00:08:04,500 --> 00:08:07,285 how much do we connect on a daily basis? 118 00:08:07,625 --> 00:08:12,737 Because I think this is a very important base for us to establish 119 00:08:12,737 --> 00:08:18,111 a good visit for the kids or for the teachers or for whatever group. 120 00:08:18,461 --> 00:08:21,281 And I think the challenges is when we start talking about it. 121 00:08:21,521 --> 00:08:24,361 what challenges do you have here with the booking? 122 00:08:24,361 --> 00:08:27,381 What challenges do you have over here with the hosting? 123 00:08:27,651 --> 00:08:29,981 What challenges do we have as educators? 124 00:08:30,031 --> 00:08:33,511 Is there room in this exhibition today or whatever? 125 00:08:33,791 --> 00:08:38,101 So I think that the challenges is that we definitely have to be better At 126 00:08:38,111 --> 00:08:41,041 talking and developing things together. 127 00:08:41,211 --> 00:08:45,111 are we actually ready to have this group visiting us today? 128 00:08:45,331 --> 00:08:49,261 Are the hosts ready to greet this group of kids or whatever? 129 00:08:49,691 --> 00:08:54,261 And we have to remember that we are actually, all of us are a team that 130 00:08:54,291 --> 00:08:58,891 are a part of the relationship that the kids get to have with us at the museum. 131 00:08:59,091 --> 00:09:04,151 And it also set a tone for you as an educator when you enter maybe for a 132 00:09:04,151 --> 00:09:08,851 group that has had a terrible entry in the museum with a host who has been 133 00:09:08,851 --> 00:09:13,201 angry at them or whatever it sets a tone for you when you do your workshop. 134 00:09:13,701 --> 00:09:18,471 So I think that we have to think about all the steps that leads to the visit. 135 00:09:18,641 --> 00:09:23,121 I also talked to you before about when do you start connecting? 136 00:09:23,241 --> 00:09:27,091 And I think that you actually start connecting way before the visit. 137 00:09:27,641 --> 00:09:29,141 And how do you do that? 138 00:09:29,301 --> 00:09:33,161 Is it a big museum where it's just a booking that's online? 139 00:09:33,171 --> 00:09:35,991 Or do you actually connect with a real person? 140 00:09:36,471 --> 00:09:39,351 Is the teacher calm about going on a trip? 141 00:09:39,756 --> 00:09:43,466 Or is it a substitute teacher going on a trip with this class 142 00:09:43,476 --> 00:09:44,686 that he or she doesn't know? 143 00:09:44,996 --> 00:09:50,786 So I think that there are some things to consider on when we connect and how 144 00:09:50,786 --> 00:09:52,946 we connect and with who we connect. 145 00:09:52,946 --> 00:09:56,976 Yeah, and as you say, it happens way before the group actually 146 00:09:56,976 --> 00:09:59,916 physically set foot in the museum. 147 00:10:00,206 --> 00:10:03,266 So those connections are being made when they look at the website. 148 00:10:03,266 --> 00:10:06,466 So those connections are being made when we take a booking or when 149 00:10:06,466 --> 00:10:10,306 we send them communication about the program or what to expect. 150 00:10:10,746 --> 00:10:13,696 All of that is connection making in your eyes. 151 00:10:14,236 --> 00:10:18,656 Yeah, it is because it sets a tone for also for expectations. 152 00:10:18,676 --> 00:10:20,246 What does the teacher expect? 153 00:10:20,686 --> 00:10:23,096 And we talked last time in our group about this. 154 00:10:23,326 --> 00:10:26,446 What do the teachers expect when they've read your webpage? 155 00:10:26,886 --> 00:10:28,366 Does that fulfill it? 156 00:10:28,376 --> 00:10:32,056 Or could a An introduction video, could that be easier 157 00:10:32,056 --> 00:10:33,376 because the teacher is busy? 158 00:10:33,786 --> 00:10:38,476 Instead of a long piece of paper that you forget to read So I think that we 159 00:10:38,486 --> 00:10:46,181 really have to be better at talking in the museum about how do we want to do this? 160 00:10:46,441 --> 00:10:49,481 We talk a lot about, oh, we have to be good hosts and stuff. 161 00:10:49,801 --> 00:10:54,431 But I think that we sometimes forget that it's all of us that 162 00:10:54,511 --> 00:10:58,141 are the ones that connect with the guests that enters the door. 163 00:10:58,501 --> 00:11:02,421 And that happens when you grasp the phone or when you book or 164 00:11:02,771 --> 00:11:04,791 when they leave or whatever. 165 00:11:05,051 --> 00:11:11,191 So I think that It could be a really interesting subject to dive into. 166 00:11:11,191 --> 00:11:11,411 Yeah. 167 00:11:11,411 --> 00:11:14,521 What else influences connection making there? 168 00:11:14,591 --> 00:11:19,211 Cause we've got we've got the pre visit things that are going on there, but also 169 00:11:19,211 --> 00:11:23,561 there are things that happen when people arrive in the actual building, when they 170 00:11:23,561 --> 00:11:27,361 walk through the doors and they're looking around them and how they're greeted. 171 00:11:27,401 --> 00:11:28,101 So, yeah. 172 00:11:28,101 --> 00:11:29,871 What other factors 173 00:11:29,891 --> 00:11:34,631 I've just had a visit from 29 students, and that's a lot in a small museum. 174 00:11:34,681 --> 00:11:40,831 One of, we have four museums in the museum I work in, and our art museum is not big. 175 00:11:41,051 --> 00:11:45,171 So 29 people in the small arrival area is a lot. 176 00:11:45,501 --> 00:11:49,411 So, you also have to consider these things when they arrive. 177 00:11:49,881 --> 00:11:51,091 What are we going to do? 178 00:11:51,141 --> 00:11:52,641 Where are we putting the bags? 179 00:11:52,641 --> 00:11:54,871 Where are we putting the jackets and stuff like that? 180 00:11:55,171 --> 00:11:56,231 And it takes time. 181 00:11:56,311 --> 00:12:00,521 if we then start to hurry people, oh, hurry put your bag over here, 182 00:12:00,521 --> 00:12:03,651 and now we have to start, and oh, they have to go to the bathroom. 183 00:12:03,701 --> 00:12:05,451 And how good are we at that? 184 00:12:05,831 --> 00:12:11,951 Because it could be stressful if it's a group of let's say 10 year olds and that 185 00:12:11,951 --> 00:12:17,711 are arriving and they've had a long bus trip and so I think that also especially 186 00:12:17,711 --> 00:12:20,071 a focus on the arrival and what do we do? 187 00:12:20,481 --> 00:12:26,141 And also that you as an educator you meet The class, of course, but 188 00:12:26,211 --> 00:12:28,881 you also have a host that's there. 189 00:12:29,141 --> 00:12:35,341 And if you both are good at getting everybody settled I think that The visit 190 00:12:35,341 --> 00:12:37,981 is already getting off to a good start 191 00:12:38,031 --> 00:12:39,821 Yeah, and I think you're absolutely right. 192 00:12:39,821 --> 00:12:42,561 So we often are keen to get onto the content. 193 00:12:42,741 --> 00:12:44,611 this is what the museum is all about. 194 00:12:44,611 --> 00:12:46,921 The things, the objects, the collections. 195 00:12:47,271 --> 00:12:50,221 But those first five, ten minutes are crucial. 196 00:12:50,221 --> 00:12:51,951 They're so, so important. 197 00:12:52,451 --> 00:12:56,821 And if people, as you say, feel rushed, you're not taking the time to 198 00:12:56,821 --> 00:13:03,101 create trust, to build psychological safety, but also to give them time to, 199 00:13:03,111 --> 00:13:06,911 perhaps see to their needs that they might have when they arrive as well. 200 00:13:08,026 --> 00:13:12,056 Yeah, and I think you have a right point in what the connection is 201 00:13:12,056 --> 00:13:13,976 really about, that it's about trust. 202 00:13:14,496 --> 00:13:17,786 I maybe be their educator for a couple of hours. 203 00:13:17,856 --> 00:13:20,816 I really want to stress that an hour is not enough. 204 00:13:21,256 --> 00:13:24,766 That's also a challenge actually for some schools that, that they 205 00:13:24,766 --> 00:13:30,286 have so short time, but I think that the baseline has to be that we want 206 00:13:30,296 --> 00:13:35,646 to build some trust because I'm a stranger in their life and they've may 207 00:13:35,646 --> 00:13:37,386 have had a bad morning or whatever. 208 00:13:37,716 --> 00:13:39,796 So we really have to focus on trust. 209 00:13:39,866 --> 00:13:41,976 And I think that's what the connection is about. 210 00:13:42,476 --> 00:13:46,446 Often the kids didn't have a say that they should visit the museum. 211 00:13:46,746 --> 00:13:48,836 It's the teacher's agenda. 212 00:13:49,186 --> 00:13:54,836 And we have to find out how do we connect with these students so they feel that 213 00:13:54,836 --> 00:13:59,596 this is also their place and their place for communicating about their ideas. 214 00:14:00,126 --> 00:14:01,986 Maybe history or art or whatever. 215 00:14:02,306 --> 00:14:06,666 So I think trust is a really good word to focus on actually with the connection. 216 00:14:07,116 --> 00:14:07,426 Yeah. 217 00:14:07,426 --> 00:14:08,286 And it's not easy. 218 00:14:08,286 --> 00:14:11,596 So we have an hour, as you saying quite often, it's an hour and we'd all 219 00:14:11,596 --> 00:14:14,146 like more, we would in an ideal world. 220 00:14:14,176 --> 00:14:18,701 We'd like, at least an hour and a half, which allows time for settling 221 00:14:18,711 --> 00:14:22,541 in and giving people time before we actually move on to the museum. 222 00:14:22,541 --> 00:14:26,701 So how can you build trust within an hour long program? 223 00:14:26,741 --> 00:14:28,921 I mean, it's a tall order, isn't it? 224 00:14:29,511 --> 00:14:30,651 It's a very tall order. 225 00:14:30,651 --> 00:14:34,861 And I think that what I do and sometimes it's, of course, it's not easy and 226 00:14:34,861 --> 00:14:38,901 sometimes I don't succeed in it, but I think that for me, when I say hello 227 00:14:38,911 --> 00:14:42,781 to the students, it's very important for me to really say hello to them and 228 00:14:42,781 --> 00:14:44,811 meet their eye and present who I am. 229 00:14:45,161 --> 00:14:49,621 and I tend to try and learn their names. 230 00:14:50,781 --> 00:14:51,761 I love that actually. 231 00:14:51,971 --> 00:14:55,661 So it's a challenge for me, of course but if I have the time, of course I really 232 00:14:55,661 --> 00:14:59,191 want to learn their names because there is something in that we know each other's 233 00:14:59,191 --> 00:15:01,801 names that builds something between us. 234 00:15:02,251 --> 00:15:05,093 And of course, in a busy day and a busy setting. 235 00:15:05,093 --> 00:15:08,093 And if it's like, say, the Natural History Museum in London, 236 00:15:08,103 --> 00:15:09,693 I know it would be impossible. 237 00:15:10,063 --> 00:15:14,313 But as we talked about when I was at my old job, we actually talked 238 00:15:14,313 --> 00:15:18,753 about buying some tags where you can write the kids names with chalk 239 00:15:19,223 --> 00:15:20,983 and then just wipe it out after. 240 00:15:21,293 --> 00:15:25,663 Because there is something that I've seen you, and you are 241 00:15:25,663 --> 00:15:28,093 here, and this is our space. 242 00:15:28,383 --> 00:15:32,583 There's something about that connection that's it's amazing what conversations 243 00:15:32,583 --> 00:15:37,373 I've sometimes had with kids that are only four or five years old about 244 00:15:37,403 --> 00:15:42,683 archaeology or I've just had some kids that are about 20 years old, I had the 245 00:15:42,683 --> 00:15:44,923 most beautiful conversation with them. 246 00:15:45,273 --> 00:15:48,733 And I think that's when you really say, I see you. 247 00:15:49,173 --> 00:15:51,033 You are here, and we're here together. 248 00:15:51,583 --> 00:15:52,913 I don't know if it sounded corny. 249 00:15:54,023 --> 00:15:55,093 I think it sounds great. 250 00:15:55,093 --> 00:15:59,123 I think there's something about saying someone's name, isn't it? 251 00:15:59,143 --> 00:16:01,188 That focuses the mind, and it's that connection. 252 00:16:01,408 --> 00:16:04,218 Instant moment of connection when you mention someone's name. 253 00:16:04,248 --> 00:16:09,218 Oh, Anya, it's bringing you into focus and getting your attention. 254 00:16:09,638 --> 00:16:14,068 Are there other moments we should be thinking about for connection making? 255 00:16:14,068 --> 00:16:16,918 So we've talked about pre entry, we've talked about entry. 256 00:16:17,268 --> 00:16:19,083 What about during the program. 257 00:16:19,093 --> 00:16:23,243 How are we making connections when we're with the group in the museum 258 00:16:23,243 --> 00:16:25,363 in the main part of our program? 259 00:16:25,373 --> 00:16:25,813 Yeah, 260 00:16:26,253 --> 00:16:30,803 I usually let them walk around in couples and let them talk about 261 00:16:30,803 --> 00:16:33,483 their art what they notice, what. 262 00:16:33,858 --> 00:16:37,798 connects with them or whatever and it gets them all around 263 00:16:37,828 --> 00:16:39,898 the room or whatever we are in. 264 00:16:39,978 --> 00:16:43,828 And then I have a practice that I walk around and listen to the 265 00:16:43,828 --> 00:16:47,838 conversations and maybe I engage in the conversation with them because 266 00:16:47,838 --> 00:16:49,538 then I just have these two kids. 267 00:16:50,093 --> 00:16:51,903 And can say, Oh what did you say? 268 00:16:51,903 --> 00:16:52,923 And what did you notice? 269 00:16:52,923 --> 00:16:54,463 And I heard you said this. 270 00:16:54,463 --> 00:17:00,243 And so this is my way of connecting with them in a smaller group because sometimes 271 00:17:00,243 --> 00:17:06,163 it's, it can be very intimidating to say something in this strange room. 272 00:17:06,583 --> 00:17:06,813 And 273 00:17:06,863 --> 00:17:11,383 I also use a "chatterbox" that's what I found out that was called. 274 00:17:13,823 --> 00:17:14,203 This is 275 00:17:14,203 --> 00:17:18,383 this origami game that we all know from childhood where you're opening 276 00:17:18,383 --> 00:17:19,863 and closing a piece of paper. 277 00:17:19,863 --> 00:17:20,433 Yeah, 278 00:17:20,433 --> 00:17:21,003 exactly. 279 00:17:21,003 --> 00:17:26,163 And in Danish we call it flip flop and in my childhood it was 280 00:17:26,163 --> 00:17:31,203 called a spo, that sort of you can make a fortune telling thing. 281 00:17:31,453 --> 00:17:31,863 So. 282 00:17:32,038 --> 00:17:35,798 Many names, but a chatterbox, I actually like that name because 283 00:17:36,108 --> 00:17:39,258 that's what it's supposed to do, that it starts a conversation. 284 00:17:39,258 --> 00:17:42,278 Because sometimes when you just say, okay, walk around and talk amongst 285 00:17:42,278 --> 00:17:47,838 yourself, and nobody says a lot, but the chatterbox for the smaller kids, 286 00:17:47,888 --> 00:17:53,553 I would choose the question and have these chatterboxes ready for them. 287 00:17:53,843 --> 00:17:56,773 And they can have these in pairs and walk around. 288 00:17:57,093 --> 00:18:02,023 And if there's really small kids, you can have pictograms or icons. 289 00:18:02,253 --> 00:18:05,773 So maybe it's a color or a shape that they should notice. 290 00:18:06,233 --> 00:18:10,893 And for the bigger kids, I usually, then I can send it out before they visit the 291 00:18:10,893 --> 00:18:15,743 museum and say they have to fill out with questions and when they get to the museum 292 00:18:16,203 --> 00:18:20,613 they shift them into different groups so they don't get their own questions. 293 00:18:21,033 --> 00:18:26,523 So I start a conversation that I can walk around and listen to and 294 00:18:26,523 --> 00:18:30,523 then I gather them around and we start a conversation about a piece. 295 00:18:31,373 --> 00:18:32,793 Yeah, I really like that idea. 296 00:18:32,873 --> 00:18:35,113 I've also heard it called a paper fortune teller. 297 00:18:35,153 --> 00:18:39,553 I didn't use that when I was growing up, but I can't remember what we did call it. 298 00:18:39,783 --> 00:18:40,473 But I love that. 299 00:18:40,803 --> 00:18:42,813 It's an element of chance, isn't it as well? 300 00:18:42,813 --> 00:18:46,406 It's like, I guess, using museum cards, when you're just, You're 301 00:18:46,416 --> 00:18:48,126 choosing a card at random. 302 00:18:48,596 --> 00:18:50,526 And that's appealing to groups as well. 303 00:18:50,526 --> 00:18:55,086 We're not on this routine where we're doing the same thing at every object. 304 00:18:55,456 --> 00:18:57,686 There's a little bit of independence involved. 305 00:18:57,746 --> 00:19:01,426 You're letting them go off on their own, a little bit of agency as well. 306 00:19:01,946 --> 00:19:05,246 And you're also bringing in that small group connection. 307 00:19:05,466 --> 00:19:09,116 So as you say, it can be really hard with a big group to try and 308 00:19:09,156 --> 00:19:10,416 make connections with people. 309 00:19:10,476 --> 00:19:15,306 And Also, it's harder for quieter people to speak up in front of the whole group. 310 00:19:15,316 --> 00:19:16,026 Exactly. 311 00:19:16,036 --> 00:19:21,196 It has a lot of key elements that I give the possibility for 312 00:19:21,266 --> 00:19:22,896 everybody to speak in a way. 313 00:19:23,296 --> 00:19:28,196 And exactly what you said about the autonomy, that's when you're in a sort 314 00:19:28,196 --> 00:19:32,396 of an agenda that's not your own, then I give them a little bit of freedom. 315 00:19:32,826 --> 00:19:37,641 You can walk around Having this and you can just choose which works 316 00:19:37,901 --> 00:19:39,141 that you want to talk about and 317 00:19:39,191 --> 00:19:43,071 So, so there's a, it's a bit of freedom in that as well. 318 00:19:43,291 --> 00:19:45,881 And I think it's, it frees up the conversation actually. 319 00:19:46,741 --> 00:19:47,041 Yeah. 320 00:19:47,071 --> 00:19:50,191 And we were talking about connection making from many sides here. 321 00:19:50,351 --> 00:19:53,981 So quite often people educators might think about connections 322 00:19:53,981 --> 00:19:58,811 between themselves and the group, but it's also connections between. 323 00:19:59,071 --> 00:20:03,691 The group themselves, so they may know each other quite often with a class, 324 00:20:03,691 --> 00:20:07,011 they'll know each other, sometimes very well, sometimes not so well. 325 00:20:07,691 --> 00:20:09,571 Other groups, they won't know each other. 326 00:20:09,581 --> 00:20:12,591 So we want to encourage connection making within the group. 327 00:20:12,881 --> 00:20:17,521 We also want to encourage connection making with the objects in our collection. 328 00:20:17,541 --> 00:20:22,191 So how do you encourage that outside of these ideas you've already explained? 329 00:20:22,691 --> 00:20:25,781 Yeah, we talked about that there's a lot of things that connects us. 330 00:20:25,911 --> 00:20:32,131 I love the curious inquiry that the kids come with that I use to 331 00:20:32,171 --> 00:20:33,791 talk about the works, of course. 332 00:20:34,191 --> 00:20:38,141 And I really try not to have an agenda. 333 00:20:38,141 --> 00:20:41,961 And sometimes, of course it's a bit needed that I have an agenda of a 334 00:20:41,961 --> 00:20:46,971 point, but then I draw it back to me and say, this is what I think. 335 00:20:47,071 --> 00:20:49,461 This is how I was feeling. 336 00:20:49,461 --> 00:20:53,941 But sometimes to really connect with the piece, I also get them 337 00:20:53,941 --> 00:20:56,251 to color a little color sample. 338 00:20:56,801 --> 00:20:58,661 So it's not a drawing. 339 00:20:59,036 --> 00:20:59,856 exercise. 340 00:21:00,236 --> 00:21:03,016 It's just crayons and a piece of paper. 341 00:21:03,406 --> 00:21:08,206 And I explained that we look at this work and we try and find 342 00:21:08,206 --> 00:21:12,686 out what kind of colors have the artists used and how much of it. 343 00:21:12,696 --> 00:21:17,396 So they draw a little square and then in this square, they 344 00:21:17,396 --> 00:21:20,306 put the small blotches of paint. 345 00:21:20,716 --> 00:21:24,686 And then we can talk about, Oh, he used a lot of blue and 346 00:21:24,686 --> 00:21:26,066 then he used a small orange. 347 00:21:26,476 --> 00:21:27,866 why do you think that is? 348 00:21:28,156 --> 00:21:31,886 And then we can talk about a little bit about actually color theory. 349 00:21:32,266 --> 00:21:36,926 so this is another way of connecting with the art piece and the color 350 00:21:36,936 --> 00:21:38,946 sample they can bring home, of course. 351 00:21:39,116 --> 00:21:41,706 Yeah, and I like the way of bringing in other ways of working 352 00:21:41,706 --> 00:21:43,085 that you're talking about there. 353 00:21:43,086 --> 00:21:43,386 Yeah. 354 00:21:43,466 --> 00:21:45,196 As well, and bringing in the senses. 355 00:21:45,226 --> 00:21:47,366 So you're a big fan of using the senses. 356 00:21:47,366 --> 00:21:48,976 Can you tell us a little bit about that? 357 00:21:49,356 --> 00:21:50,416 Yeah, I love that. 358 00:21:50,466 --> 00:21:54,196 With smaller kids, maybe I would, I love suitcases and boxes. 359 00:21:54,196 --> 00:21:59,276 So with smaller kids, I'll probably bring in some small suitcases because 360 00:21:59,276 --> 00:22:04,156 then there's some surprise and we can open suitcases and I've done something 361 00:22:04,156 --> 00:22:09,026 with small costumes and they relate to the artwork and they can put 362 00:22:09,026 --> 00:22:11,546 them on and say, Oh, ballet skirt. 363 00:22:11,776 --> 00:22:13,656 How does a ballet dancer look? 364 00:22:14,136 --> 00:22:17,436 What do they look like when they do dance and stuff like that? 365 00:22:17,836 --> 00:22:23,426 So, yeah, I love to use the senses because I think that if we just talk 366 00:22:23,916 --> 00:22:28,106 like right now, we're just talking I think that we have a bigger chance 367 00:22:28,146 --> 00:22:30,876 that we forget what we've experienced. 368 00:22:30,926 --> 00:22:35,226 I think that when we actually give each other an opportunity to get down 369 00:22:35,236 --> 00:22:40,036 in our bodies and that's why slow looking And these sort of elements 370 00:22:40,076 --> 00:22:43,376 are important because they give us a chance to connect with our body. 371 00:22:43,706 --> 00:22:49,716 So the senses with using smell or feeling something or trying to engage 372 00:22:49,716 --> 00:22:55,626 with the artwork, I think it gets to be a more deeper experience with the art. 373 00:22:55,986 --> 00:23:04,056 And I think it also makes us more aware of what art can do or what it means to us. 374 00:23:04,626 --> 00:23:05,916 If that makes sense. 375 00:23:06,606 --> 00:23:12,286 If you use smell, it's one of our strongest senses because it tends to 376 00:23:12,616 --> 00:23:15,366 hit us in our memory sense in a way. 377 00:23:15,776 --> 00:23:22,276 I've had a tour about a lady, an artist, who smoked cigarettes and 378 00:23:22,296 --> 00:23:28,016 cigars so had tobacco with me when I made the tour because that's what 379 00:23:28,026 --> 00:23:30,036 her studio would have smelled like. 380 00:23:30,386 --> 00:23:36,136 And I've bought an artwork in a thrift shop and had a canvas that you can 381 00:23:36,136 --> 00:23:41,356 touch because I think that when you can connect with the artwork in these 382 00:23:41,706 --> 00:23:47,386 kind of ways, I think you remember the artwork in a deeper way and maybe connect 383 00:23:47,386 --> 00:23:49,876 with a memory or something like that. 384 00:23:50,376 --> 00:23:55,406 At the Bremen Art Museum I was in October, they had these sensory 385 00:23:55,406 --> 00:24:00,126 areas, sensory boxes for people who are visually challenged. 386 00:24:00,346 --> 00:24:04,946 But I saw a lot of other guests using these because you can touch the 387 00:24:04,966 --> 00:24:06,996 artwork and you're not usually allowed. 388 00:24:06,996 --> 00:24:09,136 So I think that was very beautiful. 389 00:24:09,146 --> 00:24:13,836 And just walking around observing what people started to talking talk about. 390 00:24:14,481 --> 00:24:16,161 Yeah, I love those as well. 391 00:24:16,161 --> 00:24:22,141 Whenever there's any invitation to use any other senses, I'm always diving in there. 392 00:24:22,541 --> 00:24:26,631 So can you tell us a little bit about you mentioned slow looking there. 393 00:24:26,671 --> 00:24:29,121 So how do you encourage slow looking? 394 00:24:29,121 --> 00:24:31,161 How do you encourage your groups to slow down? 395 00:24:31,161 --> 00:24:33,971 How do you encourage them to look for longer? 396 00:24:33,971 --> 00:24:39,921 I think it's about allowing the pause when I ask them, What do you see here? 397 00:24:40,261 --> 00:24:41,481 What do you notice here? 398 00:24:41,481 --> 00:24:47,631 And also, hopefully having built the trust they are allowing the break to 399 00:24:47,641 --> 00:24:49,511 be there or the pause to be there. 400 00:24:49,881 --> 00:24:55,626 But I think it's tough because I think that students often, are trying to figure 401 00:24:55,626 --> 00:24:58,166 out what does the lady want me to say now. 402 00:24:58,166 --> 00:25:02,876 So I think actually slow looking is something that we should encourage even 403 00:25:02,876 --> 00:25:05,536 more than what we're already doing. 404 00:25:05,796 --> 00:25:09,906 And that's why I say that the hour is a short period of time 405 00:25:09,916 --> 00:25:12,246 when you have to slow look. 406 00:25:12,566 --> 00:25:13,726 But I've done it. 407 00:25:14,226 --> 00:25:17,956 Actually by walking in nature where we have these silent 408 00:25:17,966 --> 00:25:20,956 walks and that's very effectful. 409 00:25:21,396 --> 00:25:24,416 And I don't know if it's easier outside. 410 00:25:25,451 --> 00:25:29,401 than inside in an art museum, but there's a difference. 411 00:25:29,891 --> 00:25:36,781 So, one of my things that I'm working on trying to encourage more that it's okay 412 00:25:36,781 --> 00:25:38,581 to look at something a little bit longer. 413 00:25:38,581 --> 00:25:44,691 I had an example of the other day where I asked the students, do you think that the 414 00:25:44,691 --> 00:25:51,786 artists who have used two years doing this would like for you just to look at it 30 415 00:25:51,786 --> 00:25:54,286 seconds and then walk to the next word. 416 00:25:54,586 --> 00:26:01,846 And they laugh and they say, no, because the artists have used a lot of time 417 00:26:01,896 --> 00:26:04,126 and thoughts and sketches and whatever. 418 00:26:04,446 --> 00:26:10,336 So, I think that it has again to do with connection in the way that you 419 00:26:10,406 --> 00:26:12,466 tell them about what slow looking is. 420 00:26:13,386 --> 00:26:16,566 And also telling them about what you're expecting from them so 421 00:26:16,596 --> 00:26:20,486 that they're not looking for the right answer or guess what's in 422 00:26:20,486 --> 00:26:23,206 your head or any of that as well. 423 00:26:23,216 --> 00:26:29,156 That's what, that's actually something I start all my presentations of myself 424 00:26:29,196 --> 00:26:35,276 with, that this is an open room and what they bring onto the conversation. 425 00:26:35,286 --> 00:26:36,246 That's what I. 426 00:26:36,621 --> 00:26:38,341 connect with and use. 427 00:26:38,581 --> 00:26:42,341 I actually had a situation yesterday with a class that was really a quiet 428 00:26:42,391 --> 00:26:44,181 high school class they just started. 429 00:26:44,631 --> 00:26:50,271 And I had a plan to talk about a specific work before we were done. 430 00:26:50,791 --> 00:26:55,821 And then then I heard two girls talking about two of the works next to it, 431 00:26:56,271 --> 00:26:59,661 and there was before they were sitting down and everything, and I just said, 432 00:26:59,711 --> 00:27:03,641 okay, you found something in this, tell us why did you talk about this? 433 00:27:03,901 --> 00:27:07,391 And then we had a whole conversation about that, and that was actually a 434 00:27:07,391 --> 00:27:12,221 really nice thing that you can catch on to what the students connect with. 435 00:27:13,121 --> 00:27:13,371 Yeah. 436 00:27:13,371 --> 00:27:15,091 And you're going off plan there, aren't you? 437 00:27:15,111 --> 00:27:19,731 So you're not being afraid to deviate from your plan and go, okay, something 438 00:27:19,731 --> 00:27:21,311 interesting happening over here. 439 00:27:21,391 --> 00:27:21,881 Yeah. 440 00:27:21,951 --> 00:27:23,101 Let's see what happens. 441 00:27:23,231 --> 00:27:23,541 Yeah. 442 00:27:23,541 --> 00:27:27,291 And sometimes also the conversation you have about a certain piece, it 443 00:27:27,291 --> 00:27:32,551 takes a longer time that you might have planned because then the conversation 444 00:27:32,601 --> 00:27:38,191 builds on And I love for the students to begin to listen to each other. 445 00:27:38,581 --> 00:27:46,101 I was at a course last year in Copenhagen at one of our national art museums and 446 00:27:46,201 --> 00:27:51,161 they Make a workshop that I've used since, and it's a great way that when you 447 00:27:51,161 --> 00:27:55,981 have an artwork and actually also want to get the kids to engage all of them, 448 00:27:56,741 --> 00:28:01,801 everybody can say something, you make groups and then you give them titles. 449 00:28:02,231 --> 00:28:05,871 And you have maybe a group that are theater instructors. 450 00:28:05,881 --> 00:28:10,631 And then you have a group that are politicians and biologists or whatever, 451 00:28:10,861 --> 00:28:14,931 and then you make them look at the piece in that way, and then they 452 00:28:14,931 --> 00:28:19,991 have to tell each other about what did you notice, and it's amazing 453 00:28:20,371 --> 00:28:23,571 what they details they find that 454 00:28:23,621 --> 00:28:25,901 . otherwise they wouldn't have noticed. 455 00:28:26,251 --> 00:28:30,171 And also, because they don't have the same assignment, they are actually more 456 00:28:30,221 --> 00:28:32,361 interested in what each other are saying. 457 00:28:32,701 --> 00:28:36,851 So that was a great to be introduced to, and I've used it since. 458 00:28:37,841 --> 00:28:38,431 I love that. 459 00:28:38,681 --> 00:28:43,551 Such a great idea, asking people to try on professions or and 460 00:28:43,561 --> 00:28:48,691 look at through that lens of that particular profession or person. 461 00:28:48,691 --> 00:28:49,231 That's great. 462 00:28:49,561 --> 00:28:53,791 Tell me about drawing yoga before we move on, cause I did want to get 463 00:28:53,791 --> 00:28:55,731 it in, cause it sounds fascinating. 464 00:28:55,911 --> 00:28:58,221 Yeah, and it is, I actually used it yesterday. 465 00:28:58,221 --> 00:29:00,291 I started up my art school again. 466 00:29:00,791 --> 00:29:06,021 And I don't know if there's other terms for it, but I usually in my my art 467 00:29:06,021 --> 00:29:11,371 school or maybe a tour in a museum, if there's room for it you get a piece of 468 00:29:11,371 --> 00:29:17,451 paper and a drawing plate and a crayon or a pencil or something like that. 469 00:29:17,921 --> 00:29:19,421 And then you lie down on the floor. 470 00:29:19,721 --> 00:29:20,321 with that. 471 00:29:20,341 --> 00:29:23,041 And I play some music or I tell a story. 472 00:29:23,581 --> 00:29:28,451 And then sometimes I have some meditation cards with shapes and sizes 473 00:29:28,461 --> 00:29:30,931 or whatever on, and then I can show them. 474 00:29:31,141 --> 00:29:33,831 Now you draw this and then they just draw. 475 00:29:34,286 --> 00:29:37,856 And I take another card and now you draw this and they just 476 00:29:37,856 --> 00:29:39,546 fill out the paper in that way. 477 00:29:40,016 --> 00:29:42,956 Sometimes I ask them to close their eyes and just listen to what 478 00:29:42,956 --> 00:29:44,576 I'm telling them with the music. 479 00:29:45,146 --> 00:29:47,406 And it's just a great way to just unwind. 480 00:29:47,746 --> 00:29:49,546 And I can tell that the kids love it. 481 00:29:49,976 --> 00:29:53,636 They just I had a girl yesterday, she was like, Oh, can we take some more cards? 482 00:29:53,636 --> 00:29:55,596 And the parents were there to get them. 483 00:29:56,126 --> 00:29:57,486 So they were not ready to stop. 484 00:29:57,486 --> 00:30:00,536 And I think it's, it also shows you when kids. 485 00:30:02,091 --> 00:30:05,721 They actually like the peace and quiet and they like to wind down 486 00:30:05,721 --> 00:30:07,891 and it's not performing anything. 487 00:30:08,101 --> 00:30:12,231 It's just drawing and it's not something that should be 488 00:30:12,231 --> 00:30:13,531 a finished work or whatever. 489 00:30:13,911 --> 00:30:18,261 But it's just a great way to yeah, to just be yourself. 490 00:30:18,586 --> 00:30:21,856 And they lie on the, under the tables or behind the chairs or 491 00:30:21,856 --> 00:30:25,856 whatever, but it's just their room and their space and their drawing. 492 00:30:26,446 --> 00:30:27,446 I love the sound of that. 493 00:30:27,496 --> 00:30:29,696 And I'd like to try it with adults as well. 494 00:30:29,696 --> 00:30:31,961 I think they'd enjoy it just as much. 495 00:30:31,961 --> 00:30:33,451 Yeah, exactly. 496 00:30:33,451 --> 00:30:34,196 Yeah. 497 00:30:34,376 --> 00:30:37,826 And what a great way to finish or round off a program. 498 00:30:37,836 --> 00:30:41,726 So we've talked about connection making, before, during, what 499 00:30:41,726 --> 00:30:43,396 about how you, you finish? 500 00:30:43,406 --> 00:30:48,096 How do you exit a program, making those lasting and meaningful 501 00:30:48,096 --> 00:30:49,556 connections with people? 502 00:30:49,556 --> 00:30:55,616 Yeah, usually either I can ask them what are the three main things that 503 00:30:55,626 --> 00:31:01,531 they take away and then just in the broad sense, asking them, and usually 504 00:31:01,531 --> 00:31:04,721 they're kids that tell you something. 505 00:31:05,271 --> 00:31:10,981 And maybe I round off with something about the artist, talking about how 506 00:31:10,981 --> 00:31:15,461 his life was or what his challenges was or something like that. 507 00:31:15,631 --> 00:31:20,651 and sometimes I actually also do this with putting them in circles and an inner 508 00:31:20,651 --> 00:31:25,161 circle and an outer circle, and then they have partners and then tell each 509 00:31:25,161 --> 00:31:26,871 other what three things they notice. 510 00:31:26,871 --> 00:31:31,431 And then I again can walk around and I can listen and then I can ask them 511 00:31:31,471 --> 00:31:35,291 what did you mean by that and they can tell the class and so it depends 512 00:31:35,291 --> 00:31:39,661 on how much time I have, but usually there's much not much time in an hour. 513 00:31:39,661 --> 00:31:44,161 So it might be the closing thing just asking the class or telling 514 00:31:44,161 --> 00:31:45,501 something about the artist. 515 00:31:46,251 --> 00:31:48,011 And why do you think that's important? 516 00:31:48,061 --> 00:31:52,191 I mean, I think a lot of people listening will know that it's important to do, but 517 00:31:52,191 --> 00:31:57,771 quite often with the pace of a program, the thing that gets left is the rounding 518 00:31:57,771 --> 00:32:00,601 out, the good close, the nice ending. 519 00:32:00,921 --> 00:32:02,701 So why is it important? 520 00:32:04,001 --> 00:32:09,151 Think that the connection that you've built in the beginning It also has 521 00:32:09,151 --> 00:32:13,771 to have a finish because of course we want them to come back to the museum. 522 00:32:14,091 --> 00:32:21,951 And I think the rounding of the workshop is, important in them again feeling seen. 523 00:32:22,341 --> 00:32:23,311 It shouldn't be rushed. 524 00:32:23,691 --> 00:32:28,511 So, and also when they articulate what three things they noticed or what 525 00:32:28,551 --> 00:32:30,941 they take away I take them Seriously. 526 00:32:31,261 --> 00:32:34,351 And it depends on the class, of course, if they're nine year 527 00:32:34,351 --> 00:32:35,741 olds, they want to say everything. 528 00:32:36,061 --> 00:32:38,731 And they're teenagers, they may not say that much. 529 00:32:39,051 --> 00:32:41,611 So, you have to prepare for that, of course. 530 00:32:41,711 --> 00:32:42,041 Yeah. 531 00:32:42,706 --> 00:32:44,846 And I think you're making those memories, aren't you? 532 00:32:44,846 --> 00:32:49,486 You're making people really just crystallize what it was about today 533 00:32:49,486 --> 00:32:53,506 that I'm going to talk to someone about afterwards or remember. 534 00:32:53,866 --> 00:32:58,406 Yeah, and I think what our main assignment actually is, getting 535 00:32:58,406 --> 00:32:59,766 the kids to have nuances. 536 00:33:00,076 --> 00:33:03,856 It's about talking about art because now we've asked them to look at 537 00:33:03,866 --> 00:33:11,656 art, but we are asking them to have a greater vocabulary about art. 538 00:33:12,036 --> 00:33:16,266 So, that's why I think it's important not to forget this. 539 00:33:17,316 --> 00:33:17,606 Yeah. 540 00:33:17,606 --> 00:33:21,346 And we've We're going to wrap it up now because we only have a certain amount 541 00:33:21,346 --> 00:33:25,496 of time together as well, like we would with a group, but perhaps you can share 542 00:33:25,496 --> 00:33:29,806 with people how they can find out more about you and get in touch with you. 543 00:33:30,316 --> 00:33:34,736 Yeah, I have a project that I'm working on with an old colleague. 544 00:33:35,046 --> 00:33:38,716 We want to do more about it, but it's called Oplevkulturen Samm. 545 00:33:38,716 --> 00:33:40,266 Experience culture together. 546 00:33:40,666 --> 00:33:45,666 It's a Instagram and on Facebook and I've sent you a link. 547 00:33:46,046 --> 00:33:47,596 And we want to do more about that. 548 00:33:47,656 --> 00:33:49,836 But there we can be connected. 549 00:33:50,166 --> 00:33:54,236 And also of course, on LinkedIn, you can find me under Anja Høegh. 550 00:33:54,866 --> 00:33:58,966 And of course through my museum where I work, right now Museum Salling. 551 00:33:59,166 --> 00:34:01,966 It's also a possibility to connect with me. 552 00:34:01,986 --> 00:34:04,586 And I would really love to hear from people. 553 00:34:05,436 --> 00:34:08,666 Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing your wealth 554 00:34:08,666 --> 00:34:12,996 of experience and lots of ideas and practical tips and tools for people. 555 00:34:13,056 --> 00:34:15,446 Yeah, it's been great to talk to you, Claire. 556 00:34:15,446 --> 00:34:16,656 Thank you so much. 557 00:34:16,786 --> 00:34:16,826 Cheers. 558 00:34:19,806 --> 00:34:22,936 So a huge thank you to Anja for being on the podcast today. 559 00:34:23,326 --> 00:34:27,266 Be sure to check out the show notes to learn more about her work. 560 00:34:27,656 --> 00:34:31,756 If you've enjoyed the show, please make a one off donation via the link 561 00:34:31,866 --> 00:34:36,326 in the show notes and contribute to the ongoing costs of running the podcast. 562 00:34:36,896 --> 00:34:41,256 And don't forget to sign up to be the first to hear the latest news about 563 00:34:41,256 --> 00:34:43,906 my upcoming book, The Art Engager. 564 00:34:44,081 --> 00:34:47,261 Reimagining guided experiences in museums. 565 00:34:47,611 --> 00:34:51,031 Visit the show notes or my website to sign up. 566 00:34:51,671 --> 00:34:53,891 That just about wraps up this episode. 567 00:34:54,321 --> 00:34:56,191 Thank you so much for tuning in. 568 00:34:56,321 --> 00:34:57,541 I'll see you next time. 569 00:34:57,831 --> 00:34:58,231 Bye. 570 00:35:01,181 --> 00:35:05,351 You've been listening to The Art Engager podcast with me, Claire Bown. 571 00:35:05,901 --> 00:35:10,151 For more resources and inspiration, go to thinkingmuseum. 572 00:35:10,191 --> 00:35:15,201 com and follow me on social media at Thinking Museum for regular 573 00:35:15,211 --> 00:35:20,111 insights and practical tips on the art of engagement in museums. 574 00:35:20,811 --> 00:35:24,581 If you've enjoyed the show, please share it with others and follow the 575 00:35:24,581 --> 00:35:26,801 podcast so you never miss an episode. 576 00:35:27,851 --> 00:35:30,351 Thanks for listening and I'll see you next time.