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Welcome to

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User Friendly 2.0 with host Bill Sikkens.

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Technology architect.

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And this is user friendly 2.0
I am your host Bill.

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And joining me Gretchen.

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Bill welcome to this week's show.

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Hello there. Hello.

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So how do you feel being another year
older,

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Whoopi. It's good. Yeah. There you go.

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Working is right.

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So either

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we all have our birthday on the same day
or user friendly is turning 14 this year.

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We're going into our 14th year.

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So that's middle school
or just starting high school.

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Yeah. There you go.

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Okay, so this could be a chaotic time, but

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certainly with events of the world
it would qualify as that.

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Yeah.

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But but anyway
so yeah we started the show back in 2013,

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in Reno, Nevada, in a station

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that had a studio in a mall

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and not one of the more used
malls in Reno.

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Nice. You know, City Town Mall.

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What is that called now?

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A Reno town mall? Town.

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Old town used to be Old town mall.

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Yeah, I think they changed the name.

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But anyway, so it's a nice mall.

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I mean, it's really cool
and still has the esthetic

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from when it was older,
which has all these fountains and things.

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Definitely worth a visit.

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It's not a dead mall or anything,
but it is definitely not

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the one with your anchor stores
and all that kind of thing anymore.

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There's a lot of cool
local stuff in there,

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and one of them is the radio station
that we started at, which would be fine.

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The fact that it's in a mall
is no big deal.

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The fact that the studio did not have
a door was a big deal.

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And I know we've talked about this
a little bit in the past, but,

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you know, some of our sound effects,
which we did on purpose, of course,

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included drills and crying
children and other things.

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So people warming up musical instruments.

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But, you know, the weird thing
about that whole mall that you guys don't

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obviously remember is that a
the mall used to look like an old West

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town on purpose,
and there was an actual radio station

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in the lower area
in the center of the walking area,

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and there was an actual little room
that was completely closed off,

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and it had windows
and you could see the DJ.

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Yeah.

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And it was a legitimate,
really good radio station

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that wasn't infestation
we were on was legitimate,

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but it wasn't certainly wasn't
anything of that high of a production.

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No, no, it was the one that was
there was like one of the normal ones

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that people listened
to, like the entire town.

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So yeah. Yeah.

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So that was definitely.

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And then we kind of went from there
and have settled when user friendly.

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So user friendly 2.0 for anybody

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that doesn't know was a reboot of the show
that was done in 2019.

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So we went from a half hour
to an hour format.

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We signed on with Salem Salem Media
at that point and I heard podcasts.

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So basically what you hear
now is from that reboot,

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but there were seasons
of user friendly prior to that.

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A lot of them are on the website.
If you want to go back and listen.

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If you do,
that's on you. I'm warning you. But

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but it's,
you know, something that this is become

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a lot longer running show than I think
any of us would have ever thought.

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Yeah, yeah.

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You know.

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Idea started around my kitchen table.

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I remember that in all of us were there,
and we still had our two

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missing people at the time.

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And it was,

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you know, Jeremy and Molly have left us.

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And it's also very interesting because
we still have our original team together,

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and they didn't leave by choice.

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So, you know, it's a situation where it's
a little bit unusual as these things

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go and has something that
we've really enjoyed doing over the years.

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We started out as a pure technology show.

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We added the pop culture.
And what about 2017?

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I think actually I kept trying to add it
sooner than that.

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Yeah, the one that we actually do it,
I don't recall because we started

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talking about lightsabers
and other things earlier.

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Yeah.

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So, because it was
it was more interesting.

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People who like science and technology
tend to like science fiction

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and comic books
and and and fantasy literature.

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They they're more outgoing
and they want to explore the world.

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Right. So. Right.

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Absolutely.

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Like, you know, but from that time,

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you know, we've grown up
and it's been kind of cool.

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I don't think we've lost kind of the
what we love to cover.

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Like you say,
Gretchen, is technology and pop culture

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and kind of all the fun stuff
that goes along with it.

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It, you know, we used to do movie reviews.

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We don't do that so much anymore.

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We do them once in a while,
like last week.

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But the reality of the situation is,
is there's enough new stuff coming out

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in both areas right now
that it really creates something

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that's a little unique to cover.

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And we get some things

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that aren't necessarily covered
by everyone else, which is kind of fun.

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Definitely attending the comic cons
and all that kind of stuff.

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We're going to be having a review
of some East Coast things coming up

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in the next couple of weeks
from our reporter Bradley over there,

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but it is something where it's

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kind of fun to be able to do these things

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and look at it
from a little different perspective.

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So, you know, I don't know, it's
just been kind of a cool thing.

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And I don't know, Gretchen,
we even want to

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costume contest one year
I think in San Jose.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah we did.

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And that was funny, you know.

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And it wasn't the first time
long before Bill you were involved.

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Jeremy and Gretchen and I had met kind
of coming out of high school.

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So this was like a million years ago,
and it feels like it.

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And we ended up entering a costume contest
at a Star Trek convention.

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Yep. Dressed in Renaissance Faire gear.

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And we entered into the Q continuum
and took first place.

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And boy, was everybody else
unhappy with us.

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Yeah, well, those Trekkies were mad.

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You know, the year before,
I tripped on the stage dressed

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as a cross between Lieutenant
Uhura and Yeoman Rand.

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Yeah. So.

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And I remember Jeremy
had a really long ponytail back then,

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and he was dressed,
I think, as a Starfleet

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officer or something,
and he was asked to Starfleet officers.

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Do you wear your hair?

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Long Wharf was.

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It was the best answer
he could have given to you.

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It was really cool.

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So, yeah, we still have some of the prizes
and stuff that go back to that.

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And, you know,
so there's a history of all of this.

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And then back in 2013,
we had all met through some other things

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and started putting this together.

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And it's just been usually a weekly
some seasons it's been weekly,

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some seasons it hasn't.

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But since User friendly 2.0 came out,
we've been strictly weekly

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and have had a lot of fun with it
and the listenership.

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All of you listening to the show
is really grown up and we appreciate that.

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It's amazing
some of the input that we're getting

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and this isn't input sometimes,
like the stuff

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I will use that word
since we're on the air that some YouTube

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things get,
that it's just like trolls and things.

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But most of the feedback we get from
you is actually very informative.

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It's good.

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It's how we program the show
and I really appreciate it.

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I love that interaction.

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You know, it's a lot of fun.

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So this week
we're going to be doing a clip show.

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We're going to give you
a couple of interviews that have been

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the most talked about in the last year,
according to AI that analyzed it.

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Now, I will forewarn you, this isn't the
three most loved interviews necessarily.

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It's the three that created
the most conversation.

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That doesn't mean they're bad, but
it just means that there were certainly

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a lot of well-founded comments
on some of the different things here.

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And instead of trying

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to talk about all this
before we actually have the interviews,

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we'll just go ahead and switch
over to that here in a second

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and let you hear them and tell us
what you think about hearing them again.

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All right. Here we go.

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Joining us now, guest
Heather Rose Walters, game writer

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and inventor of Iffley,
the code free game writing software.

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Welcome to user Friendly.

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Thank you so much.

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Thanks for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.

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Oh, this is going to be great.

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I'm reading through everything
before we started the interview today.

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This sounds very interesting because I'm
curious to know what this even is.

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I'm a programmer,
so anytime stuff like this comes up,

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it's just an area of like,
okay, let's see how that works.

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But let's start with you and your company
and what is interactive fiction,

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because I think that kind of

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gets us into the realm
of what we want to talk about today.

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Definitely.

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Interactive fiction
is exactly what it sounds like.

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It's fiction that you interact with,
although some people have used it

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also with nonfiction,
but that's a whole nother interview.

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It's a form of gaming,
but it's just entirely text based.

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So technically,
all of the original games out there

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where you just were typing
text is a form of interactive fiction.

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So right now there's a whole bunch
of different versions of it, like

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Bandersnatch on Netflix
is kind of a form of interactive fiction.

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B choose your own adventure
books from like back in the 80s,

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although they do still publish
now are like a, you know, a

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physical copy of interactive fiction.

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And now there's a ton of apps out there
where you can play

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interactive fiction games on your phone,
and they're just text based stories

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where you get to choose
and affect the narrative.

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So I'm going to date myself here,
but this would be like

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in the old days, Zork or Hitchhiker's
Guide to the Galaxy, that kind of thing.

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Right? Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah, I know now the more common ones.

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Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

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I would just say I used to it.

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I love those games.

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Yeah, yeah. Super exciting.

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Now it's more common
for the interactive fiction to have like

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buttons that you select
as opposed to typing in, you know,

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an infinite number of options,
although those still do exist.

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But typically when someone talks

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about interactive
fiction, more often than not it's an app

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that's all text based,
and you have buttons that you can select

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and you're following the story down
a path.

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I remember old software like that
that would tell you

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take you on an adventure.

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So this makes a lot of sense.

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I enjoy that
more than some of the new games too.

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Still, it's just there's more ability
to be in there and you're not having

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to learn like five hours of how
to play the game before you play the game.

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So, you know, it's just
it makes a huge difference.

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All right.

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If we what is Iffley.

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Why did you invent it?

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Tell us a little bit
about what you're doing.

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Sure. Yeah, well, I'm a game writer.

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I was working in a game studio in Oregon,
Soma Games in Newburgh.

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They're awesome.
We were working on the red wall games.

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If you're familiar with Redwall,
it's a book series.

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I was obsessed with it as a kid.

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We were working on the games
and we started an interactive fiction

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app, Lost Legends of Red.

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So essentially it's the story set
within the Red wall universe.

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But me and the writers were creating

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interactive fiction stories
for that space.

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And as I was working on it, me
and one of the writer were the ones

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who are kind of mainly creating
that stuff.

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We just really hit a wall
in our creative process of writing,

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whereas I had come from more screenplay
and book writing has been

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what I've kind of done in the past,
more linear.

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You can really get into a flow
like you sit down and you just write.

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You don't have programing, you don't have
technical things kind of blocking you.

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So I just kept thinking to myself like,
man, I wish there was something I could do

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that would just be really easy.

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00:11:23,582 --> 00:11:26,552
We ended up the studio
used artist's draft, which is amazing

236
00:11:26,552 --> 00:11:29,755
if you're creating bigger games,
but we would have to like

237
00:11:29,789 --> 00:11:31,424
write it in Google Docs and then kind of

238
00:11:31,424 --> 00:11:33,559
send it to the devs
and they would have to like copy and paste

239
00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,461
it, or we'd have to copy
and paste it into our draft.

240
00:11:35,461 --> 00:11:38,698
It was very like just kind of not ideal.

241
00:11:38,698 --> 00:11:41,200
And I just thought,
you know, for a game studio,

242
00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,003
you use the bigger
things like artist's draft or whatever.

243
00:11:44,003 --> 00:11:47,139
But for a new writer,
especially someone who's never done game

244
00:11:47,139 --> 00:11:51,143
writing, it's really hard to get into
because of the technical block.

245
00:11:51,143 --> 00:11:54,914
And so I just I just had this picture
in my mind of how I wanted it to be.

246
00:11:54,914 --> 00:11:56,582
And I am not a programmer.

247
00:11:56,582 --> 00:11:57,983
I'm not a developer.

248
00:11:57,983 --> 00:11:59,618
I'm a writer writer first.

249
00:11:59,618 --> 00:12:01,954
So I ended up getting laid off
from that job,

250
00:12:01,954 --> 00:12:05,157
which was a big bummer,
but a blessing disguise because I

251
00:12:05,157 --> 00:12:08,894
then had time to work on the design
for this, so I just designed

252
00:12:08,894 --> 00:12:11,630
exactly how I wanted it to look,
but I didn't actually build it.

253
00:12:11,630 --> 00:12:16,602
I hired amazing devs to build it and now
have partners devs who are working on it.

254
00:12:16,602 --> 00:12:22,708
But basically it is no code,
no syntax, no logic, just typing.

255
00:12:22,875 --> 00:12:24,810
You just type.
You can create your whole story.

256
00:12:24,810 --> 00:12:26,946
There's no design, you don't.

257
00:12:26,946 --> 00:12:28,914
There's just nothing but words.

258
00:12:28,914 --> 00:12:32,017
So the same experience
you get, like writing a screenplay

259
00:12:32,017 --> 00:12:35,454
in Final Draft
or writing your book in Microsoft Word.

260
00:12:35,654 --> 00:12:40,059
This is what a flea is for interactive
fiction if we also is a platform.

261
00:12:40,059 --> 00:12:43,262
So with one click
you can publish your interactive game on

262
00:12:43,262 --> 00:12:46,265
iFly and anyone
can go play it and it's free.

263
00:12:47,733 --> 00:12:48,467
That sounds amazing.

264
00:12:48,467 --> 00:12:52,738
So is it like an AI picks up
what you send to it and creates the game?

265
00:12:52,738 --> 00:12:54,640
How does that work?

266
00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,710
No, no no, I mean the

267
00:12:57,710 --> 00:13:00,713
AI has a lot of great uses. I

268
00:13:01,413 --> 00:13:03,149
so I don't want to bash it too much.

269
00:13:03,149 --> 00:13:06,352
Although I know a lot of
writers are very like not pro AI.

270
00:13:06,385 --> 00:13:07,953
So I want to be really sensitive to

271
00:13:07,953 --> 00:13:11,023
like how much we do use it
and we don't use it with Iffley at all.

272
00:13:11,023 --> 00:13:14,894
It is a software built,
a browser based software.

273
00:13:14,894 --> 00:13:17,029
So you're typing and it

274
00:13:17,029 --> 00:13:20,099
the software is designed to take
what you're typing and create the game.

275
00:13:20,099 --> 00:13:24,570
So you have content blocks, which is where
your story is and you have budgets.

276
00:13:24,837 --> 00:13:29,175
You type into a content block, you
hit shift, enter, and it makes a button.

277
00:13:29,175 --> 00:13:33,078
When a person is playing that,
they see the text and they see a button.

278
00:13:33,078 --> 00:13:37,016
So it's very simple writing to playing.

279
00:13:37,016 --> 00:13:39,118
And you also as a writer,

280
00:13:39,118 --> 00:13:42,354
you'll see like the tracking lines,
you'll see the trails of the story.

281
00:13:42,354 --> 00:13:43,189
Whereas the writer,

282
00:13:43,189 --> 00:13:46,826
the reader player will just see the text
and the immediate buttons before them.

283
00:13:46,826 --> 00:13:48,060
And you can obviously test it.

284
00:13:48,060 --> 00:13:50,396
There's like a reader view
as you're writing.

285
00:13:50,396 --> 00:13:53,599
There's you can now we've added a feature

286
00:13:53,599 --> 00:13:56,602
where you can actually add images
if you want, but you don't have to.

287
00:13:56,735 --> 00:13:59,939
And so that's kind of it's behind

288
00:13:59,939 --> 00:14:04,043
the scenes like a
I sort of compare it to a bread maker.

289
00:14:04,143 --> 00:14:08,214
Creating bread is a very long,
arduous technical process.

290
00:14:08,514 --> 00:14:11,217
And if you get a bread maker,
as long as you have the ingredients

291
00:14:11,217 --> 00:14:15,020
and the ingredients in my mind
are good writing and a good story, you

292
00:14:15,020 --> 00:14:19,258
just throw it in and the game comes out
and it really is that simple.

293
00:14:19,959 --> 00:14:22,228
Oh, that sounds absolutely amazing.

294
00:14:22,228 --> 00:14:25,130
Gretchen's our resident author here,
and we've been thinking about some stuff

295
00:14:25,130 --> 00:14:26,098
for some of her books.

296
00:14:26,098 --> 00:14:28,734
And, Gretchen, you know,
this might be interesting to try.

297
00:14:28,734 --> 00:14:30,803
Yeah, it sounds interesting.

298
00:14:30,803 --> 00:14:33,372
I'm thinking more like dad adventure.

299
00:14:33,372 --> 00:14:37,977
But, you know, you know, because
you believe in different directions.

300
00:14:37,977 --> 00:14:38,677
Yeah,

301
00:14:40,479 --> 00:14:40,713
yeah, I

302
00:14:40,713 --> 00:14:44,850
think it would be really cool for Dungeon
Master's to, like, draft their games

303
00:14:44,850 --> 00:14:48,954
ahead of time or preserve the choices
that their players made to, like,

304
00:14:48,988 --> 00:14:50,189
replay campaigns.

305
00:14:50,189 --> 00:14:53,025
You could have it all in a game.

306
00:14:53,025 --> 00:14:53,259
Yeah.

307
00:14:53,259 --> 00:14:55,861
You know, you could almost
you could actually.

308
00:14:55,861 --> 00:14:56,695
Now that's interesting.

309
00:14:56,695 --> 00:14:58,697
Now I'm starting to get an understanding
of what this is.

310
00:14:58,697 --> 00:15:01,901
And I'm starting to think there's
a million ways to use something like that.

311
00:15:01,934 --> 00:15:02,234
Yeah.

312
00:15:02,234 --> 00:15:06,438
And you know, and I asked the AI question
because this always comes up,

313
00:15:06,438 --> 00:15:07,273
our other co-host

314
00:15:07,273 --> 00:15:10,676
who's not on right now, it tends to agree
with you on your opinion of AI.

315
00:15:10,709 --> 00:15:12,778
So you're in a friendly environment
with that.

316
00:15:12,778 --> 00:15:14,947
I and I was an artist.

317
00:15:14,947 --> 00:15:16,882
Yeah. And he's so.

318
00:15:16,882 --> 00:15:17,616
Yeah.

319
00:15:17,616 --> 00:15:21,320
And I'm always one
I like AI when it's used properly.

320
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,857
But you know people are doing things
that are not within that environment.

321
00:15:24,857 --> 00:15:26,225
Other conversation.

322
00:15:26,225 --> 00:15:30,329
But you know so well back now

323
00:15:31,397 --> 00:15:32,831
red will game series.

324
00:15:32,831 --> 00:15:36,802
Let's looking into a little bit
of your background and so many games.

325
00:15:36,902 --> 00:15:38,671
Go ahead and talk about this writing.

326
00:15:38,671 --> 00:15:42,141
How was that like
and what was your adventure there.

327
00:15:43,342 --> 00:15:43,943
Oh yeah.

328
00:15:43,943 --> 00:15:48,314
Well I was kind of a
I'll try and give the Reader's Digest

329
00:15:48,314 --> 00:15:51,317
version here, but I was actually trying
to be a screenwriter in LA.

330
00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:54,586
And through some like family health
issues, I had to move back to Oregon.

331
00:15:54,586 --> 00:15:57,389
And that was kind
of devastating at the time.

332
00:15:57,389 --> 00:15:59,558
But then I discovered
this local game studio,

333
00:15:59,558 --> 00:16:00,993
and they're working on the Red wall

334
00:16:00,993 --> 00:16:04,897
series, which Red wall is a beloved
series of books like If somebody.

335
00:16:04,930 --> 00:16:09,068
It's kind of this like secret fandom,
because some people have just

336
00:16:09,068 --> 00:16:10,703
never heard of it,
but the people who've heard of it

337
00:16:10,703 --> 00:16:13,939
are like obsessed because it's it's
got tons of books there long.

338
00:16:13,939 --> 00:16:17,743
They're about these anthropomorphic
forest animals who essentially act

339
00:16:17,743 --> 00:16:19,311
as like Knights of valor.

340
00:16:19,311 --> 00:16:22,815
And, you know, they have amazing feasts
and like, battles with bad guys.

341
00:16:22,815 --> 00:16:25,451
And it's like, right
and wrong and good and evil

342
00:16:25,451 --> 00:16:28,554
and they're beautiful by Brian Jacks

343
00:16:28,954 --> 00:16:31,957
recipes. Like,
they just an amazing series.

344
00:16:31,957 --> 00:16:34,426
If you haven't checked it out,
highly recommend.

345
00:16:34,426 --> 00:16:35,394
They're great for ages.

346
00:16:35,394 --> 00:16:38,430
I would say like ten and up,
but really adults can enjoy it too.

347
00:16:38,464 --> 00:16:41,467
They're quite thick, like
the books are quite thick.

348
00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:43,135
So yeah.

349
00:16:43,135 --> 00:16:48,907
So this game, this studio is the
has the right to those books for games.

350
00:16:48,907 --> 00:16:51,977
So they have a 3D adventure game,
a few 3D adventure games

351
00:16:51,977 --> 00:16:53,212
that I was the head writer on,

352
00:16:53,212 --> 00:16:56,582
and the interactive fiction app,
which I was also the head writer on.

353
00:16:56,582 --> 00:16:59,918
The very first one I wasn't there for,
but the 3D adventure,

354
00:16:59,918 --> 00:17:03,055
first one for the second and third,
and then the app.

355
00:17:03,055 --> 00:17:04,456
And then I think they also have created

356
00:17:04,456 --> 00:17:07,626
like a cooking app, because food is super
big in the red whale universe.

357
00:17:07,659 --> 00:17:12,798
Like the food descriptions are kind of 
famous, the famously beautiful.

358
00:17:12,931 --> 00:17:14,433
So they played with that a lot too.

359
00:17:14,433 --> 00:17:17,436
But yeah, writing was a dream. It was.

360
00:17:17,436 --> 00:17:21,707
I was just so grateful to be working with 
the writers I was working with.

361
00:17:21,707 --> 00:17:25,978
Working in a world that you love
is like a dream come true as a writer.

362
00:17:26,311 --> 00:17:26,612
Yeah.

363
00:17:26,612 --> 00:17:28,480
So it was really, really magical.

364
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,015
And the layoff was a bummer.

365
00:17:30,015 --> 00:17:34,253
But as you guys probably know,
like game studios and the world of gaming,

366
00:17:34,319 --> 00:17:36,555
you know, layoffs are kind of rampant.
Unfortunately.

367
00:17:36,555 --> 00:17:39,091
It's just kind of part of the industry
right now.

368
00:17:39,091 --> 00:17:44,797
Another also another interview where
it goes in cycles to I mean you see that.

369
00:17:44,830 --> 00:17:48,867
And yeah, right now is not the best time
to be getting into this industry,

370
00:17:48,867 --> 00:17:51,103
but it is a good time
to do what you're doing and creating

371
00:17:51,103 --> 00:17:55,274
something that's, you know, unique
and kind of fun to work with.

372
00:17:55,307 --> 00:17:56,942
I could see where that would be. Now.

373
00:17:56,942 --> 00:17:59,812
I totally see how Bill Snodgrass
could fit into this.

374
00:17:59,812 --> 00:18:01,980
I wish he were on this interview with us.

375
00:18:01,980 --> 00:18:04,016
He would be just
I think he would love that.

376
00:18:04,016 --> 00:18:04,783
I can tell you that.

377
00:18:04,783 --> 00:18:08,387
So and then local game studios,
summer games.

378
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:09,154
I'm sorry.

379
00:18:09,154 --> 00:18:11,423
Did you see that was in Newburgh, Oregon?

380
00:18:12,658 --> 00:18:15,260
Yes. That's interesting.

381
00:18:15,260 --> 00:18:18,864
Town for a game studio
for those that don't work

382
00:18:18,997 --> 00:18:22,267
is kind of a, oh,
about half hour outside of Portland.

383
00:18:22,301 --> 00:18:25,304
It's a really cool small town,
but it's more wine country

384
00:18:25,304 --> 00:18:29,675
and it seems a little bit
like there wouldn't appear there.

385
00:18:29,675 --> 00:18:31,543
But hey, you never know, right?

386
00:18:31,543 --> 00:18:34,379
Yeah, yeah.

387
00:18:34,379 --> 00:18:37,382
So where do you see this going?

388
00:18:37,616 --> 00:18:40,219
Well, my goal is to grow the community.

389
00:18:40,219 --> 00:18:42,254
Grow the company right now.

390
00:18:42,254 --> 00:18:46,091
You know, it's a it's like a side project
that I'm working on.

391
00:18:46,091 --> 00:18:49,962
I'm working with a couple other devs
and another marketer friend

392
00:18:49,962 --> 00:18:51,396
who are working on building it up

393
00:18:51,396 --> 00:18:55,200
and adding more features
to make the writing tool easy to use.

394
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,371
Building the community, giving writers
more resources to market to their readers.

395
00:18:59,371 --> 00:19:03,909
I really dream of this
being like a very viable indie publishing

396
00:19:03,909 --> 00:19:07,212
path for writers to create their own work,
because you can also actually

397
00:19:07,279 --> 00:19:08,847
sell games on a flea.

398
00:19:08,847 --> 00:19:13,418
You can just set a price tag and people
can purchase and play it right there.

399
00:19:13,418 --> 00:19:14,653
You can also post it for free.

400
00:19:14,653 --> 00:19:17,356
You don't have to sell it,
but I do really dream of it

401
00:19:17,356 --> 00:19:21,360
being like a sustainable source of income
for writers in the future, because

402
00:19:21,593 --> 00:19:25,631
publishing and the game industry,
you know, is just really rough

403
00:19:25,631 --> 00:19:28,800
right now for creative writers
who want to make a living.

404
00:19:29,001 --> 00:19:32,738
And I would love for this
to be an opportunity for them,

405
00:19:32,738 --> 00:19:36,975
a source of income for them,
and just a community of readers

406
00:19:36,975 --> 00:19:41,480
and writers to enjoy what we love,
which is games and game writing.

407
00:19:41,513 --> 00:19:45,517
And then personally, yeah,
I really hope it grows into a company

408
00:19:45,517 --> 00:19:46,718
that I can be proud of.

409
00:19:47,719 --> 00:19:49,521
And, you know,
I think the other thing about this too,

410
00:19:49,521 --> 00:19:52,691
that's unique from a lot of you've
talked about game engines in the past.

411
00:19:52,691 --> 00:19:54,826
I've worked with unreal
a little bit in some of these things.

412
00:19:54,826 --> 00:19:58,263
And one of the problems with that is
if you're just getting into that industry

413
00:19:58,263 --> 00:20:03,335
or want to try something out, it is
extremely expensive to do it that way.

414
00:20:03,335 --> 00:20:04,336
And it sounds like

415
00:20:04,336 --> 00:20:07,439
this would be a great entry point
for somebody that just wants to stick

416
00:20:07,439 --> 00:20:09,274
their toll in the water
and see if they like it,

417
00:20:09,274 --> 00:20:13,679
and do it in a way that they can kind of
just make it work.

418
00:20:13,679 --> 00:20:14,947
So I'm enthused.

419
00:20:14,947 --> 00:20:18,750
I think this sounds like a really cool 
for thank you.

420
00:20:18,750 --> 00:20:20,185
I'm really excited about it.

421
00:20:20,185 --> 00:20:24,223
And I will add that there are other free
platforms for interactive fiction.

422
00:20:24,223 --> 00:20:28,794
There's twine, there's choice script,
but I will say all of them have some kind

423
00:20:28,794 --> 00:20:32,898
of technical element that could be
a barrier of entry for writers.

424
00:20:32,898 --> 00:20:35,734
Now some writers go to twine
and they love the technical element.

425
00:20:35,734 --> 00:20:39,504
You can make a really detailed game
with twine if you want to get into code

426
00:20:39,504 --> 00:20:40,272
and all of that.

427
00:20:40,272 --> 00:20:41,373
But for writers

428
00:20:41,373 --> 00:20:44,576
who have no interest in code
and who really just want like

429
00:20:44,643 --> 00:20:46,211
a book with choices,
they want to write that

430
00:20:46,211 --> 00:20:49,681
and they want it to be available
for their writers to play electronically.

431
00:20:49,815 --> 00:20:51,717
Twine and Troy script.

432
00:20:51,717 --> 00:20:54,920
And as far as the draft is expensive,
but even the free choices

433
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:55,988
are just too technical.

434
00:20:55,988 --> 00:20:58,557
Like I tried before I was a game writer.

435
00:20:58,557 --> 00:21:00,392
I was like,
I'm going to just break into this.

436
00:21:00,392 --> 00:21:03,395
And I mean, I'm
the least technical person, you know?

437
00:21:03,395 --> 00:21:04,796
So it was very hard for me.

438
00:21:04,796 --> 00:21:06,431
So that's kind of the inspiration
behind it.

439
00:21:06,431 --> 00:21:08,066
But yeah, it's it's free.

440
00:21:08,066 --> 00:21:11,670
You can just go to if
and sign up and start writing right away.

441
00:21:11,670 --> 00:21:14,439
You can literally publish right away.
I mean, we have content guidelines.

442
00:21:14,439 --> 00:21:17,509
You can't publish,
you know, horrible things.

443
00:21:18,176 --> 00:21:20,345
Other generally flexible.

444
00:21:20,345 --> 00:21:23,482
It's a it's go and make a game.

445
00:21:23,482 --> 00:21:28,053
You can literally make a game in a day
if it's short, you know, think of a world

446
00:21:28,053 --> 00:21:28,453
you love.

447
00:21:28,453 --> 00:21:29,821
If it's a book already working on,

448
00:21:29,821 --> 00:21:33,692
you can make a game set in that world
and have it just be a ten minute game.

449
00:21:34,026 --> 00:21:37,429
You could go do that right now and be
have it be live by the end of the day.

450
00:21:38,196 --> 00:21:39,298
Wow. Amazing.

451
00:21:39,298 --> 00:21:41,466
I think we're going to
have lots of questions about this.

452
00:21:41,466 --> 00:21:46,338
So I
we might be needing to have you on again.

453
00:21:46,371 --> 00:21:47,873
What do you think, Bill?

454
00:21:47,873 --> 00:21:50,742
I was just about to say that actually
because this is going to be

455
00:21:50,742 --> 00:21:51,710
I know our listeners

456
00:21:51,710 --> 00:21:54,780
well, and we've got a lot of people
that ask a lot of good questions.

457
00:21:54,780 --> 00:21:58,650
But the interest in something like this,
because it's unique, is there.

458
00:21:58,650 --> 00:22:00,585
And I don't know, Gretchen,
you're a published writer.

459
00:22:00,585 --> 00:22:02,220
You are an in-depth programmer, right?

460
00:22:02,220 --> 00:22:03,722
You wouldn't need something like this.

461
00:22:03,722 --> 00:22:05,223
Oh, yeah. Right.

462
00:22:05,223 --> 00:22:06,391
In-depth programing.

463
00:22:06,391 --> 00:22:10,495
I could probably destroy your computer
with the knowledge I have

464
00:22:10,495 --> 00:22:12,264
and not be able to fix it.

465
00:22:13,532 --> 00:22:15,801
I relate,

466
00:22:15,801 --> 00:22:19,237
and I and I bring that up sarcastically,
of course, because it's just it's a thing

467
00:22:19,237 --> 00:22:21,373
that those are two very different
disciplines.

468
00:22:21,373 --> 00:22:24,042
You know what you're saying?

469
00:22:24,042 --> 00:22:25,110
It reminds me of a meme.

470
00:22:25,110 --> 00:22:28,947
I saw this little girl daddy,
what is formatting C colon mean?

471
00:22:29,014 --> 00:22:32,451
You know, it's like, yeah,
that's the thing that I do know how to do.

472
00:22:32,517 --> 00:22:35,520
And that's what would ruin your computer.

473
00:22:36,455 --> 00:22:39,458
If, you know, if.

474
00:22:40,192 --> 00:22:41,626
That's right, that's great.

475
00:22:41,626 --> 00:22:42,961
All right.
We'll check it out and let us know.

476
00:22:42,961 --> 00:22:44,763
And like we were just saying
send in your questions

477
00:22:44,763 --> 00:22:46,732
and comments on this
because this is really cool.

478
00:22:46,732 --> 00:22:48,934
Give it a try
and let us know what you think.

479
00:22:48,934 --> 00:22:50,936
Yeah. There is there anything
else you'd like to tell us?

480
00:22:52,304 --> 00:22:55,507
Well, if you do use if we

481
00:22:55,507 --> 00:22:59,177
love your feedback, we're, you know, it's
me and two devs right now working on it.

482
00:22:59,177 --> 00:23:02,681
So it's a small but but hardy team
and we'd love your feedback.

483
00:23:02,681 --> 00:23:04,683
If you encounter any bugs, let us know.

484
00:23:04,683 --> 00:23:06,451
If you have future ideas, let us know!

485
00:23:06,451 --> 00:23:09,821
There's a contact form on the page,
so you can just drop an email

486
00:23:09,821 --> 00:23:12,057
that goes to my personal email box,
you know?

487
00:23:12,057 --> 00:23:13,792
So I will see everyone.

488
00:23:13,792 --> 00:23:15,660
I'd love to hear it. And on the show.

489
00:23:15,660 --> 00:23:16,895
Of course, put your questions in.

490
00:23:16,895 --> 00:23:18,697
I'd love to come back and answer
any questions.

491
00:23:18,697 --> 00:23:20,499
That'd be amazing.

492
00:23:20,499 --> 00:23:22,000
Yeah, well, that will be a given. So.

493
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,136
All right. Well, listen, Heather,
thank you so much for joining us today.

494
00:23:24,136 --> 00:23:24,936
This is amazing.

495
00:23:24,936 --> 00:23:27,873
And I'm just looking forward
to people trying this out.

496
00:23:27,873 --> 00:23:29,674
I think I might even give it a go myself.

497
00:23:29,674 --> 00:23:32,344
So again please do not co.

498
00:23:32,344 --> 00:23:35,147
And and again thank you for being here.

499
00:23:35,147 --> 00:23:37,949
Thank you so much for having me
I really appreciate it.

500
00:23:37,949 --> 00:23:39,751
This is user friendly 2.0.

501
00:23:39,751 --> 00:23:43,622
We are going to be having another
interview for you in the next segment.

502
00:23:43,622 --> 00:23:45,557
So stay tuned for that.

503
00:23:45,557 --> 00:23:47,159
This is user friendly 2.0.

504
00:23:47,159 --> 00:23:48,560
We'll be back after the break.

505
00:23:49,828 --> 00:23:51,830
He's from the future.

506
00:23:51,830 --> 00:23:55,100
He's got a really big computer

507
00:23:55,467 --> 00:23:58,637
and he uses it uses it every day.

508
00:23:58,970 --> 00:24:02,107
And he uses it uses it in every way.

509
00:24:02,374 --> 00:24:07,913
What she uses for you know, I'm
not that sure because we use is huge.

510
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:09,681
Welcome back.

511
00:24:09,681 --> 00:24:12,184
This is user friendly 2.0.

512
00:24:12,184 --> 00:24:13,518
Send us your questions.

513
00:24:13,518 --> 00:24:15,620
Send us
your comments. We'd love to hear from you.

514
00:24:15,620 --> 00:24:18,890
User friendly Dot show is the one
stop place to be able to do that.

515
00:24:18,890 --> 00:24:21,059
Also to listen to back episodes.

516
00:24:21,059 --> 00:24:25,096
Find out where we're streaming,
check out Tech Wednesday, read the blog

517
00:24:25,096 --> 00:24:28,233
and all of the other cool things
that we have out there for you to do.

518
00:24:28,266 --> 00:24:31,036
So user friendly dot show.

519
00:24:31,036 --> 00:24:33,472
All right,
so our guest today is Al Kushner.

520
00:24:33,472 --> 00:24:37,075
He is an expert on growth strategy

521
00:24:37,108 --> 00:24:40,345
using AI with social media
specifically linked in.

522
00:24:40,712 --> 00:24:46,151
Has written a number of books
on the subject and classes, and just is

523
00:24:46,151 --> 00:24:49,187
the general expert that I've ever talked
to on this kind of thing.

524
00:24:49,187 --> 00:24:52,491
So let's
go ahead and jump to the interview.

525
00:24:52,591 --> 00:24:55,560
Joining us now, guest Al Kushner,
who is an author

526
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,663
and does a lot of very interesting things
with LinkedIn.

527
00:24:58,663 --> 00:25:00,432
Welcome to User Friendly.

528
00:25:00,432 --> 00:25:03,034
Thank you.
Thank you for the opportunity to be here.

529
00:25:03,034 --> 00:25:05,470
So before we begin on everything,
let me give you an opportunity

530
00:25:05,470 --> 00:25:07,339
to give a little bit better
background than I just did.

531
00:25:07,339 --> 00:25:08,073
Can you tell us a little bit

532
00:25:08,073 --> 00:25:11,910
about what you're doing on both fronts
and where you're headed with things?

533
00:25:12,410 --> 00:25:16,815
Well, I wrote the book on the link,
the LinkedIn advantage.

534
00:25:16,882 --> 00:25:22,187
So I'm hoping to educate people
about how to use AI and LinkedIn together

535
00:25:22,387 --> 00:25:25,390
to help streamline the process

536
00:25:25,390 --> 00:25:28,493
and make it much faster and easier to use

537
00:25:28,493 --> 00:25:33,231
so they can be more 
not afraid of using the platform,

538
00:25:33,231 --> 00:25:36,868
which a lot of people can get intimidated
by, say the least.

539
00:25:36,902 --> 00:25:39,905
So, and that's true about LinkedIn,
I've noticed that, you know,

540
00:25:39,905 --> 00:25:41,306
I think it's a little bit different.

541
00:25:41,306 --> 00:25:43,909
I like it, but I know there's
a lot of people that are like, oh,

542
00:25:43,909 --> 00:25:47,579
I don't know, you know, what to do
or how to do it or that type of a thing.

543
00:25:47,746 --> 00:25:51,416
So interesting
to talk about the idea of using

544
00:25:51,416 --> 00:25:54,553
AI with social marketing and social media
and that kind of thing.

545
00:25:54,553 --> 00:25:57,055
And, you know, it's involved in everywhere
else.

546
00:25:57,055 --> 00:26:00,292
Obviously, this has been
the big news of the last 2 or 3 years now.

547
00:26:00,458 --> 00:26:03,361
Tell us a little bit
about what it means to work with

548
00:26:03,361 --> 00:26:07,899
LinkedIn or social media in general with
AI versus a conventional way of doing it?

549
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,903
Well, what I like about AI
is that it actually helps

550
00:26:11,903 --> 00:26:18,009
to create ideas for content
that normally may take hours or days.

551
00:26:18,043 --> 00:26:20,111
Some people get writer's block,
don't know what to say.

552
00:26:20,111 --> 00:26:24,382
So using AI technology
will give you ideas of what to say,

553
00:26:24,382 --> 00:26:29,588
and if you use it strategically,
you can post more frequently on LinkedIn,

554
00:26:29,588 --> 00:26:33,825
which is always going to be an advantage,
as well as to create

555
00:26:33,825 --> 00:26:37,796
content for scripts, for videos,
or for a whole host of other things.

556
00:26:37,796 --> 00:26:41,132
So it really gives
you will save you a lot of time,

557
00:26:41,132 --> 00:26:46,271
and as well as efforts that normally
you would do with conventional ways.

558
00:26:47,872 --> 00:26:48,173
All right.

559
00:26:48,173 --> 00:26:50,308
So let's talk specifics about your book.

560
00:26:50,308 --> 00:26:54,145
Go ahead and give us a little background
and synopsis on specifically

561
00:26:54,179 --> 00:26:58,316
what you are putting together
and what is for also people

562
00:26:58,316 --> 00:27:02,988
who are want to use AI technology,
who want to use LinkedIn

563
00:27:02,988 --> 00:27:06,625
in a way that help
to make more quality connections.

564
00:27:06,858 --> 00:27:10,996
The idea, of course, is that by reading
the book, you can become possibly

565
00:27:10,996 --> 00:27:15,033
a thought leader in your field
and dominate the competition.

566
00:27:15,033 --> 00:27:17,569
Because of the resources
that I have available.

567
00:27:17,569 --> 00:27:20,872
AI technology is changing in
so many ways,

568
00:27:20,905 --> 00:27:24,676
and and LinkedIn is very receptive
to people

569
00:27:24,676 --> 00:27:28,747
who put content on LinkedIn
that is of value.

570
00:27:28,747 --> 00:27:33,118
And if you do it the right way,
if you be more of a giver than a taker,

571
00:27:33,151 --> 00:27:37,355
you'll find LinkedIn will be very much
a great platform to make all the

572
00:27:37,389 --> 00:27:43,028
connections and to gain followers
and to grow your business exponentially.

573
00:27:43,261 --> 00:27:46,798
So what inspired you to create this book?

574
00:27:47,265 --> 00:27:50,235
Well, I've looked at the books
in the market that were talking

575
00:27:50,235 --> 00:27:53,872
about LinkedIn, and most of them
didn't really address AI at all.

576
00:27:53,872 --> 00:27:56,341
So I said, well,
there's an opportunity over here.

577
00:27:56,341 --> 00:27:57,575
And I jumped at it.

578
00:27:57,575 --> 00:28:04,315
I think it was great because the fact
that LinkedIn is close to a billion users,

579
00:28:04,349 --> 00:28:07,819
I mean, this was huge
as far as the opportunity

580
00:28:07,819 --> 00:28:12,791
to have the book reach so many people
and the fact that the AI technology

581
00:28:12,791 --> 00:28:16,628
is always changing and evolving,
that is just going to be the future.

582
00:28:16,661 --> 00:28:21,032
And I think that those
who are looking to embrace it

583
00:28:21,066 --> 00:28:26,304
have a resource that they can use
to help, whether it's creating content

584
00:28:26,304 --> 00:28:30,408
or scripts or video or a whole host
of other things to save you time.

585
00:28:30,442 --> 00:28:34,612
This will definitely be a good way to
to learn about how to do that.

586
00:28:34,612 --> 00:28:38,383
So it doesn't become a time
suck as a lot of platforms do

587
00:28:39,951 --> 00:28:41,119
now. Have you

588
00:28:41,119 --> 00:28:44,222
actually sat down and done metrics
on the difference between just using

589
00:28:44,222 --> 00:28:47,392
a platform, liking LinkedIn,
and then using it with your system

590
00:28:47,392 --> 00:28:50,395
and see what the real difference is time
saving being one of them.

591
00:28:50,428 --> 00:28:52,063
But it would seem like
you would get a lot more back.

592
00:28:52,063 --> 00:28:55,400
Like you were saying earlier,
from being able to set up partnerships

593
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,403
and followers
and all of that kind of thing.

594
00:28:58,670 --> 00:29:01,873
Well, what I found to be is helping
and creating videos.

595
00:29:02,140 --> 00:29:05,977
Videos on LinkedIn has become
pretty much a

596
00:29:06,978 --> 00:29:07,545
well, I guess. So.

597
00:29:07,545 --> 00:29:10,782
It's pretty rare that people post videos,
but now it's become more prevalent.

598
00:29:10,815 --> 00:29:15,787
I think that it's actually the algorithm
really loves videos on LinkedIn

599
00:29:15,787 --> 00:29:21,059
and will help to create more awareness
once you post it on the site.

600
00:29:21,092 --> 00:29:25,196
So it really encourages you to do video
as much as possible.

601
00:29:25,230 --> 00:29:27,866
And a lot of people
don't do it for a number of reasons.

602
00:29:27,866 --> 00:29:31,803
And a sweet spot for videos,
I would say is about 90s long.

603
00:29:31,803 --> 00:29:36,107
So if you do that and post consistently
at least 2 or 3 times a week,

604
00:29:36,274 --> 00:29:37,108
you'll certainly.

605
00:29:37,108 --> 00:29:40,178
I mean, I've seen a difference
in terms of the amount of views that I've,

606
00:29:40,478 --> 00:29:44,549
that I've reached because of using videos
compared to standard tech.

607
00:29:44,582 --> 00:29:47,786
So that already was,
for me, a game changer right there.

608
00:29:49,420 --> 00:29:49,954
Now, is there

609
00:29:49,954 --> 00:29:52,957
a difference between posting a video
directly to the platform

610
00:29:52,957 --> 00:29:55,960
and sharing ones like say, that you would
already have posted on YouTube?

611
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,930
Does that work the same way
or is posting it directly better?

612
00:29:59,330 --> 00:30:00,665
Posting directly is better.

613
00:30:00,665 --> 00:30:04,435
The algorithm definitely views
it more native

614
00:30:04,602 --> 00:30:07,705
compared to sharing a link
that goes outside of LinkedIn.

615
00:30:07,705 --> 00:30:09,307
They really frown against that.

616
00:30:09,307 --> 00:30:12,310
So if you have a video,
even though it may take longer

617
00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:14,913
to upload directly to LinkedIn as opposed

618
00:30:14,913 --> 00:30:17,916
to sharing a link outside,

619
00:30:18,082 --> 00:30:19,384
and that makes sense.

620
00:30:19,384 --> 00:30:21,319
So how does somebody find your book?

621
00:30:21,319 --> 00:30:26,024
They can go to
Amazon will be available July 4th,

622
00:30:26,291 --> 00:30:31,596
and it's currently available in hardcover
so they can actually purchase directly.

623
00:30:31,629 --> 00:30:33,198
It's also available in audiobook.

624
00:30:33,198 --> 00:30:37,001
You can go to Spotify 
and you on the waiting list

625
00:30:37,001 --> 00:30:40,638
for July 4th release for the audiobook,
as well as e-book version.

626
00:30:40,638 --> 00:30:43,641
So also my website Linked Vantage. Com.

627
00:30:43,942 --> 00:30:46,344
There's a lot of great resources,
including free ebooks,

628
00:30:46,344 --> 00:30:49,347
how to optimize your profile
so you can go there.

629
00:30:49,347 --> 00:30:52,250
Reach out to me on LinkedIn. 
Another way to connect.

630
00:30:52,250 --> 00:30:55,420
So just off the top few options

631
00:30:55,420 --> 00:30:58,590
there that gives us
a few different places to look.

632
00:30:58,623 --> 00:31:01,793
And I know you're giving us a QR code
that will also help to narrow

633
00:31:01,826 --> 00:31:03,027
that down a little bit.

634
00:31:03,027 --> 00:31:05,196
So we have that shared out to everybody.

635
00:31:05,196 --> 00:31:07,365
Is there anything else
you want to tell us?

636
00:31:07,365 --> 00:31:11,636
Nothing that comes to mind, in fact,
that if you're going to

637
00:31:11,736 --> 00:31:15,874
be posting on LinkedIn,
you really need to, before you do

638
00:31:15,874 --> 00:31:17,242
any outreach is optimize

639
00:31:17,242 --> 00:31:21,279
your profile was the first thing
people to do is to check out your profile.

640
00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:24,382
And if your picture is really not
where it's at.

641
00:31:24,415 --> 00:31:25,717
You know, invest money,

642
00:31:25,717 --> 00:31:29,187
get a headshot portrait professional,
that would be the first thing to do.

643
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,691
Take a look at your background image
as well and see if you can update that.

644
00:31:34,058 --> 00:31:36,761
These things are essential
for any type of outreach on there.

645
00:31:36,761 --> 00:31:38,596
A lot of times people don't even do that.

646
00:31:38,596 --> 00:31:39,864
You know, they leave their head

647
00:31:39,864 --> 00:31:44,002
or blank in the background and images,
some car image they took.

648
00:31:44,135 --> 00:31:47,171
You know, with a camera,
you've really got to take the time

649
00:31:47,171 --> 00:31:49,607
because you don't get a second chance
to make a first impression.

650
00:31:49,607 --> 00:31:51,342
And that's really makes a difference.

651
00:31:51,342 --> 00:31:54,012
So before you do any outreach,
optimize your profile.

652
00:31:54,012 --> 00:31:55,513
Look for keywords.

653
00:31:55,513 --> 00:32:00,051
Also include anything that you've done,
any awards that you've received,

654
00:32:00,051 --> 00:32:04,322
any volunteer work you have is always
going to be looked upon more favorably.

655
00:32:04,322 --> 00:32:08,159
And others who haven't done that,
and most importantly is recommendations

656
00:32:08,159 --> 00:32:10,595
in as many recommendations as you can.

657
00:32:10,595 --> 00:32:10,962
You know,

658
00:32:10,962 --> 00:32:14,799
because that third party endorsements
are critical to any type of outreach.

659
00:32:14,832 --> 00:32:18,670
They want to know who's use your services,
who's satisfied with your work.

660
00:32:18,670 --> 00:32:19,938
And a lot of people ignore that.

661
00:32:19,938 --> 00:32:23,775
And that's something that I always stress
to people as optimize your profile.

662
00:32:23,875 --> 00:32:26,878
I have a course on it
that tells you how to do the right thing,

663
00:32:26,945 --> 00:32:28,980
keywords,
and it really makes a difference.

664
00:32:28,980 --> 00:32:31,416
You can really achieve
a lot higher results

665
00:32:31,416 --> 00:32:34,819
if you do something like that,
because people are going to judge you.

666
00:32:34,819 --> 00:32:37,855
And if you don't look
well on LinkedIn, it's

667
00:32:37,855 --> 00:32:40,591
going to not be in your interest
to do any outreach.

668
00:32:40,591 --> 00:32:42,226
I'll let you get that up to speed.

669
00:32:43,561 --> 00:32:43,828
All right.

670
00:32:43,828 --> 00:32:45,396
So you just mentioned something
I didn't know about.

671
00:32:45,396 --> 00:32:47,131
Tell us about your course.

672
00:32:47,131 --> 00:32:50,134
I have, of course, my website where it

673
00:32:50,601 --> 00:32:53,571
it's about a ten,

674
00:32:53,771 --> 00:32:58,843
ten modules that go through the steps
and how to optimize your profile

675
00:32:58,843 --> 00:33:02,814
from the headshot to creating bio

676
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:08,386
that is going to be impactful,
and also how to use it with AI to generate

677
00:33:08,586 --> 00:33:09,854
the keywords that are going to get

678
00:33:09,854 --> 00:33:12,991
you found on LinkedIn,
which I think is really crucial.

679
00:33:13,157 --> 00:33:15,159
So it goes
you through all the details on it.

680
00:33:15,159 --> 00:33:20,331
And I have a second one, of course,
that teaches you how to do outreach

681
00:33:20,331 --> 00:33:24,635
and what words to say to people
who you're connecting with and offer value

682
00:33:24,635 --> 00:33:26,104
to whoever you're connecting with.

683
00:33:26,104 --> 00:33:29,974
When I do not reach, I offer a free
e-book, you know, to help people.

684
00:33:29,974 --> 00:33:31,042
And it's really,

685
00:33:31,042 --> 00:33:34,479
you know, you want to really just connect
with someone and give them value.

686
00:33:34,545 --> 00:33:37,548
A lot of times people,
when they first connect, they pitch slept.

687
00:33:38,082 --> 00:33:42,186
Not sure if you're familiar with the term,
but nobody likes me pitch at all

688
00:33:42,186 --> 00:33:45,189
and I find majority of wise they're doing
it, and that's a really turn off.

689
00:33:45,189 --> 00:33:48,059
And usually unfriend
these people, even block them,

690
00:33:48,059 --> 00:33:49,994
because they just really didn't
make common sense.

691
00:33:49,994 --> 00:33:53,664
So you really, whenever you're connected
with someone, don't do anything like that.

692
00:33:53,664 --> 00:33:54,999
Just be friendly.

693
00:33:54,999 --> 00:33:59,170
If you can offer any book that's great or,
you know, just keep it under wraps.

694
00:33:59,170 --> 00:34:03,374
And most importantly, when they post on
LinkedIn, you want to comment in the post.

695
00:34:03,441 --> 00:34:06,411
You know, you want to show that you're
adding something to the post,

696
00:34:06,411 --> 00:34:09,547
because most of the time when they do
post, most people don't even look at it.

697
00:34:09,580 --> 00:34:11,549
The most part, it's kind of lonely.

698
00:34:11,549 --> 00:34:13,584
So and do something more than you know.

699
00:34:13,584 --> 00:34:14,852
Thanks for sharing and stuff.

700
00:34:14,852 --> 00:34:15,353
You know,

701
00:34:15,353 --> 00:34:19,190
trying to be a little more descriptive
and how the post was helpful for them.

702
00:34:19,190 --> 00:34:22,627
And and that's something that will help
to create awareness.

703
00:34:22,627 --> 00:34:25,396
And they may decide to reach out to you
and say,

704
00:34:25,396 --> 00:34:27,465
you know,
I appreciate your comments on it.

705
00:34:27,465 --> 00:34:29,534
And you know, what else do you do?

706
00:34:29,534 --> 00:34:32,036
That's really a good way
to connect with someone.

707
00:34:32,036 --> 00:34:36,274
Sometimes it's better
to be a follower of an influencer

708
00:34:36,274 --> 00:34:40,311
and try to do an outreach connect, because
most of the time you won't get accepted.

709
00:34:40,311 --> 00:34:44,348
And if anything more you do that,
it may be considered like spam

710
00:34:44,348 --> 00:34:47,218
with LinkedIn algorithms.
So you want to try to avoid that.

711
00:34:47,218 --> 00:34:51,422
Ideally, follow if it's an influencer
you want to be with, and if they do post,

712
00:34:51,422 --> 00:34:53,558
you can actually be alerted
when they do post,

713
00:34:53,558 --> 00:34:56,661
so you can respond quickly to that post
and provide them

714
00:34:56,661 --> 00:34:59,831
with commentary that would be favorable
to whatever they're saying.

715
00:34:59,831 --> 00:35:02,233
I think is a great
way to connect with people.

716
00:35:03,301 --> 00:35:03,634
All right.

717
00:35:03,634 --> 00:35:06,170
Perfect. Well, thank you for joining us
today.

718
00:35:06,170 --> 00:35:07,672
Welcome the opportunity.

719
00:35:07,672 --> 00:35:08,372
Thank you again.

720
00:35:08,372 --> 00:35:10,741
And now for something
completely different.

721
00:35:10,741 --> 00:35:12,844
I hope that didn't get us banned
on the BBC.

722
00:35:12,844 --> 00:35:16,547
Bill, you have a new role playing game

723
00:35:16,547 --> 00:35:19,550
that you've been looking at,
Call of Cthulhu.

724
00:35:19,650 --> 00:35:22,954
Go ahead and tell us about it
and give us your thoughts.

725
00:35:23,454 --> 00:35:26,591
Well, it's a new campaign from for,
colloquially called

726
00:35:27,892 --> 00:35:30,495
Sutra of the Pale Leaves Twin Sons Rising.

727
00:35:30,495 --> 00:35:34,265
It's the first book of two,
contains three scenarios.

728
00:35:34,332 --> 00:35:37,268
And the interesting thing is usually

729
00:35:37,268 --> 00:35:41,105
takes place
back in the 1920s or Victorian era.

730
00:35:41,572 --> 00:35:44,575
This one is set in 1980s Japan.

731
00:35:45,343 --> 00:35:47,979
Oh, okay. That's different.

732
00:35:47,979 --> 00:35:50,314
Yeah, yeah.

733
00:35:50,314 --> 00:35:53,584
Which is interesting because Japan has
a very big following of color.

734
00:35:54,051 --> 00:35:55,820
They they love their color.

735
00:35:55,820 --> 00:35:57,121
Like we love our dad.

736
00:35:58,923 --> 00:35:59,624
No, but I think

737
00:35:59,624 --> 00:36:03,694
this is the first time I've ever heard
of a different situation at all.

738
00:36:03,961 --> 00:36:07,331
Is it always been 1920s,
or is it that just usually the case,

739
00:36:07,665 --> 00:36:08,866
just usually the case?

740
00:36:08,866 --> 00:36:11,869
I mean, I've had some that are 1950s.

741
00:36:13,104 --> 00:36:14,672
It all depends.

742
00:36:14,672 --> 00:36:18,509
They like that era because of the noir.

743
00:36:18,543 --> 00:36:23,281
I think feeling well is
it wasn't the original writers stories

744
00:36:23,314 --> 00:36:26,918
set in the 20s or am I wrong?

745
00:36:27,585 --> 00:36:30,021
Lovecraft was in the tens and 20s.

746
00:36:30,021 --> 00:36:33,024
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

747
00:36:33,391 --> 00:36:33,691
Okay.

748
00:36:33,691 --> 00:36:34,692
So that makes sense.

749
00:36:34,692 --> 00:36:37,628
So tell us a little bit more about it.

750
00:36:37,628 --> 00:36:40,331
Well,
like I said, it's set in 1980s Japan.

751
00:36:40,331 --> 00:36:43,334
And it is a.

752
00:36:44,835 --> 00:36:46,037
Interesting

753
00:36:46,037 --> 00:36:50,541
take on The Yellow King,
which is a creature in the mythos of H.P.

754
00:36:50,541 --> 00:36:53,544
Lovecraft in the mythos.

755
00:36:53,711 --> 00:36:57,548
And it has him being more

756
00:36:57,548 --> 00:37:01,452
of a neutral party
than an antagonist or a protagonist,

757
00:37:02,453 --> 00:37:05,456
which is going to be interesting.

758
00:37:07,358 --> 00:37:09,360
What do you end up with the scenarios
here?

759
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:10,828
Just a quick rundown.

760
00:37:10,828 --> 00:37:13,864
You have Dream Eater, which is a strange
dreams of monstrous torment.

761
00:37:13,898 --> 00:37:16,901
The people of Ikaruga

762
00:37:17,034 --> 00:37:18,502
fanfic rumors speak of a

763
00:37:18,502 --> 00:37:21,505
cursed manga comic book,

764
00:37:21,505 --> 00:37:23,140
the Pallid Mask of Tokyo.

765
00:37:23,140 --> 00:37:26,177
A murderer is discovered,
but the corpse has no face.

766
00:37:27,278 --> 00:37:29,380
You. That's creepy.

767
00:37:29,380 --> 00:37:32,116
Yeah.

768
00:37:32,116 --> 00:37:35,620
Yep. So these can be played as a campaign
setting.

769
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,691
All three together in order
or individually as you like.

770
00:37:41,192 --> 00:37:44,762
So do you play characters
that are supposed to be Japanese?

771
00:37:45,062 --> 00:37:47,064
Yes. Or. Oh, cool.

772
00:37:47,064 --> 00:37:49,000
Okay,
so it is a completely different setup.

773
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,669
And these modules are like storylines,
right?

774
00:37:51,669 --> 00:37:55,640
Yeah, they're like normal campaigns,
like we used to play, you know,

775
00:37:56,173 --> 00:37:59,543
like descent into Avernus or other things.

776
00:37:59,577 --> 00:38:01,746
Right. Okay. So yeah. No that's it.

777
00:38:01,746 --> 00:38:05,750
So is the environment
immersive into Japan,

778
00:38:05,783 --> 00:38:08,786
you know, like the cities
and the landscape and.

779
00:38:08,786 --> 00:38:09,754
Oh wow. Oh yeah.

780
00:38:09,754 --> 00:38:11,155
I mean it's got a,

781
00:38:11,155 --> 00:38:15,793
it's got a map in here of just the rail
line system, you know, that Japan uses and

782
00:38:16,794 --> 00:38:20,197
say, I am impressed by how much detail
they put into it, but

783
00:38:20,231 --> 00:38:21,699
they really threw it.

784
00:38:21,699 --> 00:38:25,803
A lot of that 1980s
feel, the artwork style,

785
00:38:26,671 --> 00:38:29,340
just what different things you could find.

786
00:38:29,340 --> 00:38:31,509
You know, the internet was coming of age.

787
00:38:31,509 --> 00:38:36,147
What what role computers in such plays
in this campaign?

788
00:38:36,580 --> 00:38:40,851
Video games of course, manga,

789
00:38:40,851 --> 00:38:43,854
which was a big thing in the 80s
and still is.

790
00:38:45,189 --> 00:38:47,625
And again,

791
00:38:47,625 --> 00:38:51,295
like I said, the artwork style in here
really is reminiscent of that era.

792
00:38:52,263 --> 00:38:55,266
Nate, I wish I could,
I wish I could see it.

793
00:38:56,100 --> 00:39:00,171
Well, I'm imagine that out
and you could certainly do that online.

794
00:39:00,338 --> 00:39:04,342
Yeah, you know Gretchen,
but I know with role playing games

795
00:39:04,342 --> 00:39:08,346
in general, you have some that
a lot of care and quality goes into.

796
00:39:08,379 --> 00:39:09,513
And Bill, it sounds like you're saying

797
00:39:09,513 --> 00:39:13,818
that this is one that's fairly
well done like that he does that.

798
00:39:13,818 --> 00:39:19,357
I've noticed they really put the time and
effort into every product they put into.

799
00:39:19,857 --> 00:39:24,762
Just give you a
as best to experience as possible.

800
00:39:24,795 --> 00:39:29,834
Like we just covered two weeks ago,
age of likings, just the amount of detail

801
00:39:29,834 --> 00:39:34,338
they went into that to character creation,
let alone the setting.

802
00:39:34,772 --> 00:39:37,541
You know, they
they really pull out the stops on that.

803
00:39:37,541 --> 00:39:39,577
And I'm always impressed by their company.

804
00:39:40,745 --> 00:39:40,978
I mean,

805
00:39:40,978 --> 00:39:43,981
role playing games, when done right
are your true open world.

806
00:39:44,482 --> 00:39:47,151
We could say that in video games
when you can kind of all around

807
00:39:47,151 --> 00:39:50,388
and stuff, but the imagination
is really the limit on these things.

808
00:39:50,388 --> 00:39:54,859
If it's done well,
it really is a lot of fun and you know,

809
00:39:54,892 --> 00:39:57,395
some are better than others. In this case,
it sounds great.

810
00:39:57,395 --> 00:40:01,432
Now, are you actually playing a campaign
with these or Call of Cthulhu right now?

811
00:40:01,465 --> 00:40:03,901
And I know you have in the past.

812
00:40:03,901 --> 00:40:06,837
I'm looking forward to running this one

813
00:40:06,837 --> 00:40:10,141
when I have some downtime
in my current campaigns.

814
00:40:11,142 --> 00:40:13,310
We are very in-depth into what we're

815
00:40:13,310 --> 00:40:17,014
at with daddy currently,
but I'm looking forward to these.

816
00:40:17,081 --> 00:40:19,450
Like I usually run them

817
00:40:19,450 --> 00:40:22,820
when we have people
that are going to be gone for a period

818
00:40:22,820 --> 00:40:25,856
of time or something like that,
just so we have something to do.

819
00:40:27,892 --> 00:40:29,460
That makes that makes total sense.

820
00:40:29,460 --> 00:40:32,863
I mean, we kind of do the same thing
up here too, is we have the main one,

821
00:40:32,863 --> 00:40:35,866
and then if people are missing
or if we just don't feel like it,

822
00:40:35,866 --> 00:40:39,570
you have a backup mission,
you know, like game.

823
00:40:39,637 --> 00:40:42,373
Yeah. Yeah. Like West.

824
00:40:42,373 --> 00:40:44,708
I don't know if that's exactly
the right term for it, but it's

825
00:40:44,708 --> 00:40:48,212
certainly that kind of an idea and and.

826
00:40:48,279 --> 00:40:49,380
Yeah. So all right.

827
00:40:49,380 --> 00:40:53,551
Is this something you just order from
Amazon or pick up at your game shop or.

828
00:40:54,018 --> 00:40:54,218
Yeah.

829
00:40:54,218 --> 00:40:56,654
Or you can pick it up
from Chaosium directly.

830
00:40:56,654 --> 00:40:59,790
I always suggest
ordering directly from them

831
00:40:59,790 --> 00:41:03,561
because you also get that
and usually you get the PDFs of it.

832
00:41:04,829 --> 00:41:05,029
Yeah.

833
00:41:05,029 --> 00:41:07,064
And plus you're supporting the author
a little bit more

834
00:41:07,064 --> 00:41:09,467
if you go through a third party site
and it's just the way it is,

835
00:41:09,467 --> 00:41:12,970
and that's how they make money, but they
take a little bit more of a piece of it.

836
00:41:12,970 --> 00:41:16,974
So I try to do that,
especially with artistic things like this,

837
00:41:16,974 --> 00:41:20,211
whether it's books or,
you know, of artwork of some other kind,

838
00:41:20,277 --> 00:41:25,115
and get it straight from the person
that actually published it when you can.

839
00:41:25,816 --> 00:41:28,552
Yeah, it totally makes sense.

840
00:41:28,552 --> 00:41:28,953
All right.

841
00:41:28,953 --> 00:41:32,156
So question that's come in from listeners
when you've talked about this

842
00:41:32,189 --> 00:41:35,192
in the past,
is there a Call of Cthulhu video game?

843
00:41:35,359 --> 00:41:36,227
Yes there is.

844
00:41:36,227 --> 00:41:39,396
I think there was actually a few of them
really.

845
00:41:39,430 --> 00:41:40,998
Have you have you played any of them?

846
00:41:40,998 --> 00:41:42,700
I didn't know this until

847
00:41:44,001 --> 00:41:44,735
I've played

848
00:41:44,735 --> 00:41:48,272
one based on the Call of Cthulhu
Mythos idea.

849
00:41:49,039 --> 00:41:51,976
Came out really good.

850
00:41:51,976 --> 00:41:53,744
It was a story driven one.

851
00:41:53,744 --> 00:41:57,348
I know there's what was it,

852
00:41:57,348 --> 00:42:01,118
The Sinking City or something,
I believe was a video game that came out

853
00:42:02,119 --> 00:42:04,455
3 or 4 years ago.

854
00:42:04,455 --> 00:42:07,458
It was based on,

855
00:42:08,859 --> 00:42:10,160
that sounds familiar.

856
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:11,695
A number of them.

857
00:42:11,695 --> 00:42:15,866
Have we played the game Sinking City,
where it's like it's getting lower

858
00:42:15,866 --> 00:42:20,070
and the water is rising, and
you have to figure something out before

859
00:42:21,772 --> 00:42:25,142
a certain time,
otherwise everything goes under.

860
00:42:25,543 --> 00:42:26,710
Yeah, you're playing a video.

861
00:42:26,710 --> 00:42:28,178
That's what he is.

862
00:42:28,178 --> 00:42:30,881
The main character's doing
is trying to figure out different things.

863
00:42:30,881 --> 00:42:34,151
Now it's a little bit more pulp
than I believe most color,

864
00:42:34,585 --> 00:42:38,188
because there was a lot
of enemies and shooting and

865
00:42:39,690 --> 00:42:42,493
stuff
that not necessarily happens in the blue,

866
00:42:42,493 --> 00:42:45,496
which is usually just you
against the universe of.

867
00:42:46,030 --> 00:42:46,297
Right?

868
00:42:46,297 --> 00:42:49,300
Right.

869
00:42:50,134 --> 00:42:52,102
But totally makes sense.

870
00:42:52,102 --> 00:42:55,706
And I like I say, I didn't
I hadn't even really thought about that

871
00:42:55,906 --> 00:42:57,675
until someone asked the question.

872
00:42:57,675 --> 00:43:01,545
And, you know, it's worth
checking some of these out to, especially

873
00:43:01,545 --> 00:43:05,482
if this is a jara that you're into
and a quick search on the internet.

874
00:43:05,482 --> 00:43:09,053
I actually see looks like five games
that are based on

875
00:43:10,588 --> 00:43:13,591
the sinking city
being the one that you just talked about

876
00:43:13,591 --> 00:43:17,661
dark corners of the Earth, Bloodborne
dredged, to name a few of the other ones.

877
00:43:17,661 --> 00:43:21,899
And yeah, so no, it totally makes sense
that that that would be the case.

878
00:43:21,932 --> 00:43:24,935
And if anybody's listening that has played
these, let us know

879
00:43:24,935 --> 00:43:26,136
what you think of them.

880
00:43:26,136 --> 00:43:29,840
Because sometimes video game ports of role

881
00:43:29,873 --> 00:43:33,744
playing games can be great
and other times not so much.

882
00:43:33,744 --> 00:43:37,514
We've seen a lot of games based
as a, for example, on Dungeons and Dragons

883
00:43:37,514 --> 00:43:42,119
over the years, and this is something
that goes back to, well, retro computers.

884
00:43:42,119 --> 00:43:44,922
I think there's actually a Dungeons
and Dragons game on the in television.

885
00:43:44,922 --> 00:43:49,660
There might even be on the first Ataris,
and some of them are very good,

886
00:43:49,660 --> 00:43:52,830
and some of them are just like,
what is going on here, you know?

887
00:43:53,197 --> 00:43:54,264
Yeah.

888
00:43:54,264 --> 00:43:57,868
So definitely, absolutely,
definitely worth checking out.

889
00:43:57,901 --> 00:43:59,503
And one of the things too,
that's kind of cool

890
00:43:59,503 --> 00:44:02,239
and this time is
you can actually look at playthroughs

891
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:03,440
and different stuff like that.

892
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:07,745
And even on the role playing game front,
it's kind of interesting to check it out

893
00:44:07,745 --> 00:44:10,814
and see, you know,
what others do and get some ideas.

894
00:44:10,814 --> 00:44:14,051
And I think I might have even mentioned
this a few weeks ago on the show,

895
00:44:14,051 --> 00:44:19,223
but we're playtesting
Shadowrun and ended up

896
00:44:19,256 --> 00:44:23,460
I didn't know much about the character
generation, so I asked ChatGPT

897
00:44:23,494 --> 00:44:26,830
to generate a character for me,
and in about 10s

898
00:44:26,830 --> 00:44:29,833
had the character sheet and everything
the way I wanted.

899
00:44:30,300 --> 00:44:33,370
I made a few changes on it,
but yeah, some things like that

900
00:44:33,370 --> 00:44:37,441
have certainly changed over the years,
but the face of it, not so much.

901
00:44:37,474 --> 00:44:41,779
It's still, you know, about imagination,
usually more or less.

902
00:44:41,779 --> 00:44:44,648
So how did that playthrough go?

903
00:44:44,648 --> 00:44:46,216
We haven't had it yet.

904
00:44:46,216 --> 00:44:47,785
We were supposed to do it last Friday.

905
00:44:47,785 --> 00:44:51,188
I had a personal emergency last week,
so we had to put it off.

906
00:44:51,388 --> 00:44:55,559
And I think we're going to be doing it
this coming Friday

907
00:44:55,793 --> 00:44:56,860
if everything goes well.

908
00:44:56,860 --> 00:44:59,863
So I will certainly talk about it here
when I know

909
00:45:00,230 --> 00:45:02,599
you'll have to tell me how initiative is.

910
00:45:02,599 --> 00:45:05,436
I've heard
it can be quite a complicated subject.

911
00:45:05,436 --> 00:45:06,737
Oh, yeah.

912
00:45:06,737 --> 00:45:09,139
Just creating the
characters, you know, it's

913
00:45:10,541 --> 00:45:12,042
because mine was done in 30s.

914
00:45:12,042 --> 00:45:14,078
Everybody else took 2 or 3 hours,
so, you know.

915
00:45:14,078 --> 00:45:15,512
But yeah, really,

916
00:45:15,512 --> 00:45:18,182
I'm sure they figured, yeah,
I'm sure they figured out how I did it.

917
00:45:18,182 --> 00:45:21,185
But it's an in-depth creation.

918
00:45:21,819 --> 00:45:23,420
Yeah. And that's not the longest one.

919
00:45:23,420 --> 00:45:28,092
There are some systems where take 6
or 8 hours, I think I want to say

920
00:45:28,158 --> 00:45:31,428
Elfquest or something was one like that
that I did a long time ago.

921
00:45:31,428 --> 00:45:34,598
And the session
zero was, was like a whole day.

922
00:45:35,232 --> 00:45:35,532
Yeah.

923
00:45:35,532 --> 00:45:40,037
Dredd is like that where it's based on
Judge Dredd, where you create a character

924
00:45:40,070 --> 00:45:42,439
and your character can die in character
creation.

925
00:45:42,439 --> 00:45:45,275
So it's, you know, that's nice,

926
00:45:45,275 --> 00:45:48,879
but you basically have a session
just for character creation.

927
00:45:48,879 --> 00:45:52,216
And if your character survives,
you get the character of the end, but

928
00:45:52,950 --> 00:45:55,452
it can take six hours.

929
00:45:55,452 --> 00:45:55,786
Yeah.

930
00:45:55,786 --> 00:46:01,258
And I know with Triton Gaming System,
that one took me quite a while

931
00:46:01,291 --> 00:46:05,596
to figure out because as they said,
they don't hold handhold for anybody.

932
00:46:05,696 --> 00:46:09,032
So that one took me a while
to get a character made.

933
00:46:10,033 --> 00:46:10,934
Yeah, and some of these.

934
00:46:10,934 --> 00:46:15,139
It's not easy either,
because some of it is intuitive.

935
00:46:15,139 --> 00:46:15,773
And then you have

936
00:46:15,773 --> 00:46:18,776
some of these other systems
where there's charts and graphs,

937
00:46:18,776 --> 00:46:22,212
and I think more information
than you need to become a pilot.

938
00:46:22,946 --> 00:46:23,347
Yeah.

939
00:46:23,347 --> 00:46:25,382
You have to figure out
to get a dump properly.

940
00:46:25,382 --> 00:46:28,051
And then if you don't do something right,
the character doesn't work out.

941
00:46:28,051 --> 00:46:31,822
And we're missing some,
you know, characteristic or something

942
00:46:31,822 --> 00:46:32,756
you need for the game.

943
00:46:32,756 --> 00:46:35,692
And then you get to do it all over again.

944
00:46:35,692 --> 00:46:37,961
Or in my case,
the nice to our game masters

945
00:46:37,961 --> 00:46:42,833
and just allow them to let me respawn
with the appropriate changes.

946
00:46:45,202 --> 00:46:47,337
Oh my god.

947
00:46:47,337 --> 00:46:48,672
Yeah, that is kind of a bummer.

948
00:46:48,672 --> 00:46:49,740
I used to have that happen.

949
00:46:49,740 --> 00:46:50,707
What was?

950
00:46:50,707 --> 00:46:51,875
We used to play with some friends.

951
00:46:51,875 --> 00:46:55,712
It was a desk part game

952
00:46:56,380 --> 00:46:59,216
and I would always die.

953
00:46:59,216 --> 00:47:01,251
It seemed like right
in the beginning of it,

954
00:47:01,251 --> 00:47:03,253
I can't even remember
the name of that anymore.

955
00:47:03,253 --> 00:47:04,388
I wasn't part of that.

956
00:47:04,388 --> 00:47:08,091
I don't remember that
this would have been 15 years ago,

957
00:47:08,091 --> 00:47:11,295
and you and Jeremy were there,
but we were.

958
00:47:11,662 --> 00:47:13,330
Yeah.
I'm not surprised that you don't remember.

959
00:47:13,330 --> 00:47:15,432
It was not that. Was it that bad?

960
00:47:17,601 --> 00:47:17,935
I don't

961
00:47:17,935 --> 00:47:21,772
know if I would go that far,
but it definitely

962
00:47:21,772 --> 00:47:25,108
was not, let's just say, not as much fun
as the actual role playing game.

963
00:47:25,108 --> 00:47:27,511
And being that it was as complicated,
it's like,

964
00:47:27,511 --> 00:47:29,813
why wouldn't you just do the regular game,
you know?

965
00:47:29,813 --> 00:47:31,982
Yeah, little Pathfinder
put out a card game.

966
00:47:31,982 --> 00:47:35,219
And that one was really interesting

967
00:47:35,219 --> 00:47:38,755
because it played like Pathfinder, right?

968
00:47:38,789 --> 00:47:42,793
But you were using the cards instead of 
worrying about character sheets.

969
00:47:45,095 --> 00:47:46,997
Had a little card,
and then you had a weapon

970
00:47:46,997 --> 00:47:50,000
card and your magic card and yeah,

971
00:47:51,001 --> 00:47:55,038
I mean, it seems like you I want to say
it was like Dungeon Mayhem or something.

972
00:47:55,272 --> 00:47:57,074
Oh, yeah.

973
00:47:57,074 --> 00:47:58,942
I don't think I've heard of that. Yeah.

974
00:47:58,942 --> 00:48:00,143
Or something along those lines.

975
00:48:00,143 --> 00:48:03,013
It's not as pretty close,
and I'm sure there's a lot of people

976
00:48:03,013 --> 00:48:05,349
listening that love this,
and I think that's great.

977
00:48:05,349 --> 00:48:07,584
I'm not dissing it.
I'm just saying it wasn't quite my thing.

978
00:48:07,584 --> 00:48:11,455
But you know, but
I'm not really into card games that much.

979
00:48:11,455 --> 00:48:13,657
I did Magic The Gathering at one time.

980
00:48:13,657 --> 00:48:15,959
And you know, some of those.

981
00:48:15,959 --> 00:48:19,630
The Pikachu one, you know.

982
00:48:19,796 --> 00:48:20,197
Yeah.

983
00:48:20,197 --> 00:48:25,502
And and again,
if it's something you have to like

984
00:48:25,502 --> 00:48:29,473
what you're doing, and I am not saying
these are bad, I think they're well done.

985
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:34,177
But like, even Pokemon Pikachu,
you know, that kind of a thing.

986
00:48:34,177 --> 00:48:36,747
I was more in the augmented reality stuff
with that,

987
00:48:36,747 --> 00:48:39,349
where you could actually buy a watch
and it would tell you where the monster is

988
00:48:39,349 --> 00:48:41,451
when you were walking around
so that you could catch it.

989
00:48:41,451 --> 00:48:44,121
Now, to me, that was cool the game,

990
00:48:44,121 --> 00:48:47,057
but that part of it was really,
really cool, you know?

991
00:48:47,057 --> 00:48:50,160
So all right,
well that's it for this week.

992
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:50,861
Until next week.

993
00:48:50,861 --> 00:48:55,999
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994
00:48:55,999 --> 00:49:02,572
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995
00:49:02,639 --> 00:49:04,241
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996
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997
00:49:07,678 --> 00:49:11,481
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998
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999
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1000
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1001
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1002
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1003
00:49:30,934 --> 00:49:32,602
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