We always try to innovate.

We always try to be at the forefront of a lot of that innovation because there's not a lot of red tape.

It's not like moving a battleship.

We're, we're actually pretty nimble.

So we're able to put liquid in can pretty darn quick.

I love to be a disruptor in space.

I love to, you know, bring really good products to the consumer and help accelerate that.

And it was just kind of everything packaged in one.

Welcome back to the logistics and leadership podcast.

I'm one of your co hosts and founders of Veritas Logistics, Justin Mains.

Today we have a guest bringing a unique perspective to growing a CPG brand in the alcohol space.

We haven't had one before.

He has a tough experience.

15 years specifically.

He was one of the founders of Yonkers Brewing who grew into a multi state distributor.

He was the first employee at Lover Boy Beverages.

You can find it in nearly every retailer.

Looking forward to this one.

Nick Califano, welcome to the podcast.

Pleasure to join you, bud.

Excited to be here.

So Nick, you've done your dabble in CPG for a while.

I know you did some consulting for CPG brands as well.

Experience.

Tell us, tell us who you are.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

And thanks for that intro.

You know, after college, started my career as an analyst for a asset for a big asset manager over in New York City working with small mid micro cap stocks.

So really got to open up the hood on a lot of businesses.

Just saw how they worked, what worked, what didn't work.

Got to talk to a lot of the employees within.

Just really kicking the tires.

That's really what set me off.

Just thinking about business in general and maybe taking one on myself, doing that for a handful of years.

Had an opportunity to start a brewery as you mentioned, Yonkers Brewing Company back in 2012.

I'm a Yonkers native just north of New York City.

Yonkers had and continues to have a lot going for it.

Third largest city in New York.

A lot of people know about it, whether it be from certain rap artists that come out of there, some movies.

All right, give us for the listeners, give us some examples.

Who, who are some OGs from Yonkers.

Mary J. Blige Deluxe, DMX on all Yonkers names.

Oh, okay, there we go.

All right.

But yeah, yeah, huge, huge growth area for art music.

It's right on the the Hudson River.

It's 25 minutes north of New York City.

But when what me and my buddy John at the time, found a lot of people were moving out of Yonkers and moving elsewhere.

They weren't moving into it.

We wanted people to come in and see the beauty of it and see what.

What was happening down there and the opportunity and the potential.

And at that time, we saw that people traveled for beer.

You know, beer created this local community that people travel to.

So we really want to put our flag in the ground.

And we ended up getting some property right off the Yonkers Metro north stop, again, 25 minutes north of Grand Central.

Super easy access.

And.

And we cultivated a little community for people to come experience it.

And I'm happy to report we were part of a really beautiful renaissance that happened down there.

Um, and over the course of the last 15 years, there's been some amazing stuff happening over there.

Um, but in my opinion, the.

The beer industry was changing from 2012 to 2015 to 2018.

At that time, we were one of a very few breweries in not just Westchester county in New York, but New York State in general when we first started in 2012.

And by 2015, we were one of a few hundred, you know, and it was just boom.

And it was amazing to see how people just traveled for beer.

They supported their local community.

And in.

In my eyes, it just got a little too crowded, though, as we started to try to build the business.

Now there was a beer brewery on every corner, so everybody wanted to try the local beer.

But from a business standpoint, it's just getting harder and harder to get that shelf presence some over at retail and to get people to.

Wasn't hard for people to try it, but to stick with it.

Not because it wasn't good, but because there were just so many amazing options out there.

And at that time, also saw that there was a shift of people caring less about where it was being produced, but what was actually in it that we were producing.

So when you turn over beer, there's no nutritional panel.

People were caring about the calorie intake, the how many carbs are in the beer, the sugar content, what are they putting in their body.

And I saw the market shifting a little bit that way.

Didn't really know what to do with that.

But then, as luck would have it, I was introduced.

I had a friend in common with Kyle Cook, who is on the show Summer House.

He was on the show.

He was doing some amazing things there.

He had this amazing platform and totally separately wanted to do something in the CPG space, specifically in tea and specifically in Better for you.

Because at the time there's really just one alcohol tea brand out there.

You probably know what it, what it is, what it was.

And historically it's, it's not necessarily the best thing for you from a sugar standpoint.

And it was amazing because, you know, tea's the second most widely consumed beverage outside of water in the world.

It's usually associated with better for you qualities or its nutritional value.

Yet the only alcoholic tea out there was the total opposite.

So we kind of want to turn it on its head.

Had the platform from Kyle.

My background being in Bev Alk, it's not very easy to get into Bev Alk.

So having some experience there really gave us an upper hand on how to approach certain markets.

In 2018, we launched Lover Boy.

Officially, we were able to put it on the show.

We were able to do some amazing things.

Again, plant our flag in the ground and then just have it take off from there.

That's amazing.

And it sounds like you met some awesome people that were able to make some introductions.

You hit it off with Kyle.

I'm assuming he uses a reality show, Summer House on Bravo as a launching pad for this idea he has to make a healthy alcoholic based tea.

Yep.

He brings the idea to you.

You guys are spitballing.

I'm assuming what made you want to commit and invest in this, this business plan to disrupt the beverage industry with a healthy alcoholic tea?

Yeah, well, I think you said the word.

It's.

It's about disrupting markets.

I mean, I think that's exciting, especially being, you know, put your entrepreneurial hat on, you look for disruptors in the market.

And Kyle's idea on what he wanted to do and bring to market was definitely a disruptor in the space.

One coming at it from not a alcohol background and set in his ways.

So he, he looked at things a little differently.

I had some of the alcohol background, so I always pushed, he always pulled.

So it was a, it was a good yin and yang of this is how things are done and then trying to flip it on its head a little bit.

So it allowed us to approach the market a little differently.

But again, seeing where having my finger on the pulse of where the alcohol space was going.

And again, there's so many breweries popping up and you know, at, at the time, you know, 2012, 2015, craft beer was the only growing market in, in the alcohols, I.

In especially the, you know, in alcohol.

But outside of wine and wine and spirits, it wasn't macro beer, it was craft beer that was growing.

And towards 2017, 20, 18, 16, 17, 18.

It started to slow just because there was again so many brands out there.

So many people were doing incredible things, but there was so many, so much option for the consumer.

It was just hard for one brand to really break through.

And I lived through that and I saw the opportunity with the platform, the marketing opportunity there, but not only the marketing opportunity, bringing using that platform for an amazing product that was trying to be a disruptor.

And altogether it allowed a very small brand to accelerate to the large stage and play with the big boys and not have to spend hand over fist to do it.

So it was a bit of a cheat code.

We discovered that early on.

But you know me, I, I love to be a disruptor in the space.

I love to, you know, bring really good products to the consumer and help accelerate that.

And it was just kind of everything packaged in one.

So I, I said, yeah, I want to, I want to move in this direction and go towards the better for you alcohol space, you know, White Claw truly paved the way.

We followed their tails there.

But we were the first alcoholic tea truly outside of Twisted.

So we were able to really be a leader in that area.

It sounds like it.

And I notice you all pop up more and more.

I've primarily worked with CPG brands.

So as I see these brands grow, I typically would try them and then, you know, pursue a potential partnership with them.

But those brands, to get to that point, even on the shelf of a retailer, those things don't happen overnight.

They grown.

A CPG brand, you know, non alcoholic may, even if it's a snack food company, is one of the hardest things you can do as an entrepreneur, 100%.

Then you add in, you know, all the red tape that comes with scaling, you know, a CBG brand with alcohol and they're completely different challenges.

So I read with lover boy that Kyle wanted out within 10 months before the next season of Summerhouse came on.

You joined First Employee.

Tell us about that 10 month stretch.

What did that look like and how did you all make it happen?

Yeah, a lot, A lot of moving pieces.

Obviously, you know, putting a brand together.

Kyle had some liquid in can as samples when, when I joined, we honed in on the flavor process.

Worked with a very small flavor house.

I mean, very small.

Like a guy in Brooklyn.

Oh, real quick, Nick, are these, are these, you know, conversations that you're initiating through your previous experience with Yonkers or are you all just googling, asking, you know, for referrals?

What did that look like?

Yeah, all of the above.

You Know, going back to Yonkers, I. I really was headed the operations piece, you know, from supply chain and.

And all that.

So my background, really.

Sales background originally, but then brought that to the operational piece.

Right.

Financials, operations, supply chain, distribution, really wearing every hat you could.

Right.

So it.

In creating Lover Boy, it was, yeah, taking what we.

What I had learned from the craft beer side, but then learning about all the different challenges.

The government really didn't know what to do with this new beverage and the white claws of the trulies.

It's.

It's not a malt base, it's a sugar.

It's a fermented sugar cane.

The government didn't really know what to do with it, so they taxed it like a beer.

Like malt, though it wasn't malt because it wasn't a wine and it wasn't a spirit.

So it, it sat in this weird category.

So learning all the nuances on how the government was looking at it, how it was being regulated, who it can be distributed through, because you have both liquor and wine and then beer distributors with different licensing, they're able to distribute different products where it could be sold, how it needed to be produced, the regulatory bodies that oversaw that, whether it was the TTB or fd.

So, yeah, a lot of challenges.

So taking some of my past learnings, but then there's a lot of calling.

There wasn't a lot to Google because nobody knew what it was.

It was calling up a lot of the regulatory bodies directly to figure out, how are they looking at this?

What do we need to do?

And funny enough, in most cases, they said, they shrugged their shoulder and said, you know, we're still trying to figure it out too.

So.

So it was a lot of, you know, you don't want to say it.

It was like ask forgiveness, not permission on a few things.

Not doing anything wrong, but just trying to move the needle and making sure that we were able to hit certain timelines.

The, the big opportunity with the platform was.

And they're on season 10 right now, which is amazing.

So we started, I think it was season four.

So we've had really six seasons of this opportunity.

Kyle's going to kill me if I got those numbers wrong, but I think that's.

That's where it was.

They film during the summer, obviously.

Show's called Summer House, but it doesn't air until the following spring.

So February, March and April.

So it's a tremendous marketing opportunity.

So if we have any innovation, we try to, you know, streamline it, get Product ready for summer, knowing that the whole world is going to see it next spring.

And then that's when we try to time a huge launch.

So really we started in 2018 and in three months we, we made full, full court press on trying to get liquid and can the right way, getting it to the summer house to be on the show in the summer of 2018 to then truly officially launch the spring of 2019, correlating to the show airing.

So then, you know, working into your world, it wasn't just getting the right distributors and partners from summer to the following spring, it was figuring out logistics.

Where are we going to produce it, where are we going to warehouse it, which distributors are we using, trying to figure out the lanes and so on and so forth.

So it was really, you know, it was us two at the beginning and then we, we built a really strong team of five, really three, then four, then five within the next five, six months to then properly launch in the spring of 2019 and just have our, all our ducks in a row.

So was there any point?

Because it sounds like you all gave yourself a deadline.

I mean, you, you all had this incredible platform to, to promote this new brand is a disruptor to an audience who ate it, ate it up.

You know, I imagine it was flying off the shelves when, when it was first launched, but you all gave yourself a deadline then.

It sounds like you, you had to pretty much reverse engineer from the start to meet that deadline, you know, so the big launch could, could happen the way you wanted to happen.

Were there any challenges?

Were there any, you know, any moments during that time where you want to throw in the towel?

It's like, yeah, I don't, I don't foresee this working.

Yeah, a few times.

I mean, as you're working backwards, like you said, you have a deadline and then you try to work backwards.

I had, you know, quite a bit of years in, in the alcohol space, but the majority of product was going into keg.

We don't do keg here.

So we were working on, you know, different containers were specifically in six packs when we launched.

So you had a six pack can, six pack wrap, you have your tray, you have your corrugated, you have all the different pieces that make the unit.

And we didn't have all those units on the craft side.

So, you know, working through and trying to put all our ducks in a row.

Sometimes you miss a little piece in that supply chain and you're like, oh, this is a pivotal piece in, you know, in our bomb when we're trying to build something.

Yeah, we have the liquid, we have the can, we have the top, we have the six pack wrap.

And then, oh, we forgot the tray.

We forgot to order the tray or we have the tray.

Oh shit, we forgot to.

We, we actually wanted printed trays and made make sure that lover boy scattered all over so everybody knew what it was.

So you're moving forward, then it's two steps back and you know, you're bouncing back and forth and there were just a lot of times where cams were delayed or corrugated was delayed and you're working with, you know, five, six, ten different vendors trying to get them to work on your timeline and nobody's working on your timeline, so just trying to manage it all.

And there were plenty of times where just felt like we were dead.

Not that we were giving up, but that we were dead.

There was no option and no way that this was going to be going to market when we wanted it to.

But somehow, some way you have the hard conversations.

Yeah, you're on the brink of tears trying to have a convo and somebody you know is like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna move some stuff around to try to make this work for you.

In this industry, everything is five to eight week timeline.

Right.

There's a lead time of five to eight to 12 weeks in everything that we do.

I think that was the hardest part to realize is, okay, we want cans, we, we need cans in two weeks.

They're like, that's a 12 week process.

You're not getting cans in two weeks.

Then you're learning about which vendors have the ability to, you gotta befriend them, you may need to send them something.

But there is some variability in their, in their timeline and the lead times.

And you, you learn that the hard way and ha.

Having the, the deep convos of please, please, please, please, please try to move me up.

And you know, somehow, some way, it, it tends to work out.

Oh, relationships matter.

And it's, it seems to be a common theme with these conversations where, you know, entrepreneurs or, you know, integral pieces to, to companies, they feel like they're dead in the water.

And you know, call it God's grace, lock, whatever you want to call it, they find a way out of it.

They find a way through the adversity.

And it sounds like you all, you know, kind of fit that mold as well.

But you all are unique.

Where you started in three states, you moved to, you know, 40 plus states, 150, you know, distributors, you all, you know, explode because of the platform the audience watching, you know, Summer House, it's not like, you know, we have our three states.

This is our, you know, supply chain will be to build it in three states.

How did it, I mean how did you attack meeting demand, national demand?

For everyone watching the show that's wanting to try this, this new beverage to building out the supply chain network across the U.S. those things are, can't wrap my head around it because I haven't done it.

But like give us more insight there.

It was really hard forecasting.

Forecasting is still difficult for us just because the demand and things change and we always try to be innovative and we launch new SKUs all the time and you never really know how they're going to work because we have so many partners.

Like you said, we're in 44 states, over 150 distributor partners.

It's hard to just get true insight into what everybody's going to take with every new innovation you get.

But when we first started we just really had no clue how the brand was going to take.

We, we had an idea and we were very optimistic.

But we put product out there in the market.

It went gangbusters like we were hoping it would and we couldn't keep up with demand.

We had a partner, CO packing partner out in the Midwest who's been great.

We actually still use them to this day.

So our first CO packing partner is still one of our main partners right now.

But they couldn't keep up with the demand we were seeing and we had no time to move product from their facility to a fulfillment facility.

We actually had trucks picking, backing up to their door, putting it on a truck and heading out to our distributors.

We couldn't keep up with it and we actually left a ton of money on the door because you know, a lot of times you have to sign, you have to decide what kind of co packer you're going to go with or you have to grow into certain co packers.

So you're not going to get the biggest one in the United States to sign on the dotted line before you ever launch.

You're going to say, yeah, I heard this story before, you're the best brand out there, blah, blah, blah.

Until you're doing X amount of volume, we're not taking you on.

So we signed with CO packer who could do ample amount of volume but just couldn't scale and keep up with how we were launching.

We ended up hitting a, you know, after the initial burst we ended up finding additional partners to, to help us keep up with it.

But that Initial run, they just couldn't produce enough.

And we couldn't believe what was happening.

We never could have have foreseen that happening right off the bat, but it was awesome.

Trucks were backing up and we're sending product out and then we were waiting 30 days for more product to be made and then waiting 30 days for more product to be made, and it just couldn't happen fast enough.

You know, then Covid hit and then Covid is what?

You know, I hate to say it, but it was actually really good for the brand.

It, it leveled the playing field in a really big way where you have all these macro brands.

You have White Claw, which is Marc Anthony brands, Truly was, which is Boston Beer, Twisted Tea, which is also Boston Beer.

A lot of people don't know, but you have all these brands that have national distribution.

A lot of dollars to spend to get liquid tulips.

But Covid happened and it leveled the playing field.

They couldn't spend their marketing dollars, but we had product on shelf and we had a direct connect to our consumer through the show which was airing and our social media platform.

So we were able to push our consumers to the retail shelves.

And we had more followers than all these other big names could ever imagine.

So we actually had a leg up in, in Covid.

What kind of killed us was a lot of the supply chain stuff.

We couldn't get cans, you know, can production stopped domestically.

They couldn't keep up with supply.

We had to import like everybody else from Shanghai, Dubai, Mexico, I mean, you name it, we imported aluminum from there.

Again, a hindrance for us because we didn't necessarily have the, the resources to compete with a lot of the bigger guys on, on the global scale.

But we did it.

We worked our way in it.

We got cans we needed at some point, just like everybody else.

Our tankers were, you know, waiting outside the LA port for weeks and weeks and weeks just like everybody else.

But we ended up getting them.

We ended up supplying all the POs that we had.

But Covid allowed us to leapfrog all the other brands.

Leaps and bounds, especially the ones that were starting around.

We.

We were.

They got hit by Covid.

We really didn't.

And then we were able to compete with the big guys because again, it leveled the playing field on a national scale.

So we had consumers going to retail asking for the product.

We had buyers going to distributors asking for the product.

They then distributors calling us asking to carry it.

So we did it ass backwards and we were blessed to be able to do it that way.

But we did it ass backwards, and that's just what allowed us to accelerate really quickly.

So, yeah, very unique way of scaling, you know, an alcoholic beverage brand, CPG brand.

I know you all have gotten into a lot of other SKUs, you know, the martinis, the spritzers, THC, which is, you know, I feel like THC now is similar to the category that you all were presenting to, you know, legislation about how.

What.

What is this?

Like, how do we categorize this?

Let's talk about that.

What do you.

Like, you all are launching new SKUs.

There's fads with these CPG brands that.

That often fizzle out.

How do you all stay relevant on shelves, consumers buying it?

How do you continue to develop yourself and reinvent yourself with things like the thc, you know, product that you have now?

Yeah, it's a great question.

I mean, we always try to innovate.

We always try to be at the forefront of a lot of that innovation.

Luckily, I keep pointing to the show, but it's really Kyle, his wife Amanda, uh, Carl, who's also part of Team Lover Boy, who's doing some really cool stuff outside of that too, on the non al side.

But they have their finger on the pull.

I mean, they're cultural phenomenons.

You know, Bravo 10 years ago wasn't Bravo.

Today, Bravo's paving the way in a lot of what's happening culturally.

Like I said, they.

They film in the.

In the summer and it airs in the spring.

And that cadence happens with a lot of their shows, whether it be the fall following summer.

But it's always film and then follows.

So they tend to be a bit of ahead of the curve of what's happening out there culturally.

And because we're not big, because there's not a lot of red tape, it's not like moving a battleship.

We're.

We're actually pretty nimble.

So we're able to put liquid in can pretty darn quick and do things a lot quicker than other brands tried to.

We were the first espresso martini in a can.

You now have a lot of macro brands trying to do it.

You have a lot of craft brands trying to do it, but we were the first to put it in a can.

We have a canned Cosmo.

I think we were the first to do that.

Canned sangrias.

We're doing some non alks too.

We're not the first to do non alk, but one of the first non alk teas, which differentiates itself from an actual just tea that doesn't have alcohol.

You know, that takes some explaining, but it's an opportunity to participate in a moment, a drinking occasion without drinking.

And you're not drinking a spin drift, right?

You're drinking a Lover Boy.

So it still allows you to participate.

But so yeah, we, we participate in a lot of these different categories, try to be first movers in a lot of them.

Again, taking advantage of our size, the being able to act in a, in a nimble way, bringing products to market and taking risks that some of the bigger brands, you know, it's a huge investment for a really big brand to put something new out.

And it's not necessarily that big of a risk for us because we have a direct to consumer channel we could, we could test and learn there before we bring to retail.

So a lot of opportunity for us to be, you know, first movers and innovators in this space.

That's a great point.

And some I, you know, didn't really think about is you all can, you know, with your audience and with your, you know, flexibility, y' all can kind of pilot things and see if it's going to catch fire or if it's not worth, you know, rolling out to consumers.

So that's unique in and of itself.

But you know, when you think about it and you don't have to, there's no obviously right or wrong answer.

But what are, what are the three things, you know, that you would credit the leadership team at Lover Boy for the success?

And I wouldn't say overnight, but you made it through Covid and actually thrived through Covid.

You haven't been around too long.

What are a few things that you believe your team did that separated yourself from the competition?

I think first and foremost is you have to put out a good product.

So it's not putting out shit.

It's making sure that the product you put out, you stand behind and you truly believe in it.

You could always look to make it better and improve on it, but not just putting product out for the sake of putting product out, it's putting good product out.

Two is being able to identify ahead of everyone else culturally what our consumer might be looking for and what voids there might be in the market.

So it's good product, what that product actually needs to be to be able to fill a void in the market and then mentioned it before.

Having a direct connect to the consumer, engaging with the consumer and actually listening to them is huge because we may not have the most followers.

Kyle, Amanda, Carl may not have the most followers compared to other quote Unquote celebrities out there or celebrity brands out there.

But they have the most engagement I could tell you.

They actually engage with the fans, they care with the fans.

They'll do meet and greets all the time.

4 hour long meet and greets with 800 people coming through and the 800th person is treated like the first person.

It's actually exhausting to watch.

But I think that care, that care for your consumer really does bring it full circle.

And it's not just a get rich money scheme.

It's a quality of connection, quality of product.

And then putting those two together and knowing what that product should be, I think creates that secret sauce.

Well, I'm curious about this as well.

You sin had this, you know, magic puzzle put together.

But what, what is the culture like at Loverboy?

Because it sounds like you are very flexible, you know, very about your, you know, in consumer, you want to invest time and energy into, you know, listen to their feedback because you're making products for them.

What does that say about your culture and can you give us some insight there?

Yeah, yeah.

I mean we're six years in, which is scary, but it's still very much a startup mentality.

Making sure that we're constantly grinding to put the best product out to making sure we're working hard to again engage and connect with the consumer.

Always trying to innovate.

There's always something happening.

And we're small so we're 15 employees and again we're a national brand.

We have tremendous amount of distribution partners.

We have at any given time 16 to 20 SKUs.

That where we're managing via DTC and retail.

And then that doesn't take our actual merch channel into consideration which has a ton other SKUs.

So, so everybody's working their butt off.

I want to say it's work hard, play hard.

It's a lot of work.

Not as much play as we would like at times.

But you know, we're, we're constantly working to, to get there, but everybody's just working, putting a hundred percent in all the time to make sure that we're just always trying to stay that one step ahead.

Absolutely.

And I, I would consider, you know, our company a startup too.

You never want to lose that startup feel because I think you lose a lot of that, you know, passion and accountability within the culture.

So.

I love what you're saying.

I, you know, looking at the brand in general, I would have no IDEA you had 15 people.

I mean you clearly don't operate like you have 15 people.

It's that tenfold, but extremely impressive.

What's next?

What's next for lover boy?

Yeah, I mean, the interesting about our brand is we've been able to grow pretty wide quickly because of the show, the platform, our ability to engage with consumers, not just locally, but nationally.

I always say, you know, the, the big thing with craft beer being in that space.

You needed a brewery because people needed to come touch the tanks, engage with the brand, to fall in love with it and then they become a, you know, customer for life.

We don't need a brewery, we don't need people to come touch the tanks because of the show.

We're able to engage with our consumer where they are.

They don't necessarily need to come to us.

And I think again, that's one of our secret weapons.

And how we've been able to grow so quickly is we've been able to create a loyalty no matter where our consumer is.

We haven't even attacked outside the U.S. you know, we have a huge customer base in Canada and Australia and Europe, England, everywhere, you know, so we have engraved engagement that crosses state lines.

But we've been able to grow quickly.

Our challenge has always been the resource to then go deep in all of these markets and you know, craft news always a mile deep in, an inch wide, yet a stake your flag in the ground, build your brewery, you know, engage with your consumer and start to grow from there.

Again, we were able to kind of break down those barriers because of the platform and our engagement.

But now our challenge is making sure we're going deep in all the markets because every distribution partner that we have has 120 different brands with four to six different SKUs per brand.

So no matter how popular you are, no matter how much the consumer loves you, you still need to, you can't forget about your distributor.

They're, they're your customer.

In, in our world, it's a three tier system.

We sell to a distributor who then sells to retail, who then sells to our consumer.

We can't go direct to retail.

We, we have a partner in that distributor.

We can't lose sight of that.

And we have to make sure that we support them.

That way they support us.

And to be honest, that's been our biggest challenge, is making sure that we're able to support them the way they need.

Because you have a bigger brand that has 20 sales reps in a, in a territory, they're doing a lot of the heavy lifting.

They're going to get more support from the distributor because the, that's just the way it works.

Right.

So we need to be able to show a little more love and go a little more deep in each of these markets that we're in.

To actually answer your question, what's next for us is just making sure that we're, we're going deep in these markets and we're bringing lover boy to all the, all our consumers actually want it.

Because we're in a ton of states where we're still getting DMS from our customers and they're like, when are you coming to so and so state?

We're like, oh, we've been there for two years, you know, but we're in a lot of big name retail stores, the chains, but not everybody does their shopping at the big chain.

A lot of them go to their mom and pop.

And that's really where we need to close.

The gap is the, are the, the, the real local spots.

That takes manpower, that takes resources.

And, you know, that's our next step is making sure that we're, we're bringing our product to where our consumers are shopping.

Not just the big names that sound really great, but the mom and pops who's getting really.

The local business.

It sounds like you guys have handled any challenges or problems you face pretty well.

So I imagine you're going to be on shelves in the Mom Pops shops here in the very near future.

A couple more things for you, Nick.

I know we've, we've covered a lot, but, you know, you all took a different path to scaling a CBG brand.

But there's likely a ton of similarities for the challenges and the successes that you all have faced.

What advice would you give to just, you know, someone who's building something similar or just in the same space?

What advice would you give to them when their back's against the wall and they feel like throwing in the towel?

Yeah.

Yeah.

A lot of times it's just, you know, that one extra day, that one extra step, and then all of a sudden you forget about yesterday and you crying on the floor in the, you know, infant position.

And then all of a sudden things change.

You know, I always say every day's a roller coaster.

Sometimes you want to end it all and then an hour later you're like, this is the greatest day ever.

And it's just wild how it ebbs and flows.

But honestly, my, my biggest recommendation I see cpg.

To me, a widget's a widget.

Yeah, there, there are differences in, in the regulations and some of the different steps and intermediaries that you have to deal with.

But from a supply chain standpoint, you need really good partners.

You need that framework and foundation that you could grow from.

I always say you need backups to your backups, because you never know.

Like I said yes for that favor.

Sometimes your.

Your main partner is just stuck and they can't do it, and.

And you're not cheating on them.

It's just always nice to have somebody else that you might be able to throw business to, might be able to lean on.

And all of a sudden, you just expanded your network and you create a backup to a backup.

Because we've been in spots where Covid shut this manufacturing spot down on, because this state is.

Isn't allowing people to do it.

But luckily we had a partner in this state who's randomly open for business, and that allowed us to keep, you know, the product flowing.

You never want to get locked in with one person because no matter how much you love them now, you never know what's around the bend.

So always backups to your backups and making sure that you're keeping your supply chain open and that you're always just having multiple partners in different spaces.

Not to work them against each other, but you need to be in control, and you can't have your business be beholden to somebody else.

It just happens way too much, and.

And people respect it.

And it's not about doing something behind somebody's back or keeping it a secret.

Everybody knows that we work with multiple vendors and we bounce around and we try to put business all around.

Some people specialize in really big runs.

Some.

That's not their sweet spot.

They're more in the middle, maybe a little more expensive, but it may make a little more sense to, you know, not overextend and.

And all that stuff, depending on timing and seasonality and things like that, but just, again, creating a good foundation, making sure that you have backups to the backups, and being in control of your own destiny, not being beholden to, you know, one little spoke in the big wheel.

I love it.

It's strong.

I agree.

I'm actually debating whether or not to tell my wife I need a couple backups when I get home, but not sure if that were good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, Nick, I. I won't.

I won't credit you for giving me that advice.

But, Nick, last question.

You know, this could be personal or professional, but what do you want Nick Califano's legacy to be?

Yeah, I mean, that's a deep question and one that's.

It's interesting.

You Gave me a heads up at the beginning of this, but I wish I had a little more time to think about it.

But off the.

Off the cup one want to be a good dad, a good hubby.

You know, I think those are really important.

And I think no matter who you are, what, you know, lifestyle or how it is at home, I think having a really strong supportive base at home allows you to do everything that work needs out of you.

Because if it's a bit turbulent anywhere in your life outside of work, it's gonna.

It's gonna bleed in.

And I think that goes the same the other way.

You know, if work's turbulent, it's gonna affect the house too.

And I think it's.

It's important to try to get.

Just create a strong base personally.

And that's really important to me because everything else kind of feeds off of that.

When it comes to work and what I want my legacy to be, I think it's just knowing that everything I do, people realize that I care about it.

And it's doing the right thing by the right people.

It's not just doing it for a quick buck.

It's doing it because I actually care about it.

I think it's very transparent to people when you're selling something or you're doing something and it doesn't really matter to you.

I think transparency is really important.

I mean, it's one of the things we pride ourselves over here.

For better or for worse.

Company's pretty transparent.

But I think it's.

I want my legacy to be that I've done things that people know I care about, and it's.

Because it.

It just translates in everything that I do, whether that's bev alk or whether it be, you know, something else in a couple of years in the.

Not in alcohol.

But I love connecting the dots between really good products and consumer.

And I love working with brands that I truly care about because I think it just brings out the best in me.

So I don't.

I don't know if that's much of a legacy, but I think it's just making sure that I'm.

I'm always doing something that I. I'm truly passionate about because I think it's important for people to see that I'm not full of.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think your legacy is already being built with, you know, the impact you've made in Yonkers, you know, what you're doing today and what you continue to do.

So there's no doubt in my mind it's going to be strong, whatever it is.

But, Nick, I appreciate your time.

I truly do.

You share a lot.

I learned a lot.

So thank you for that.

And I know our audience will enjoy it as well.

No, I appreciate it, Justin.

Thanks for the time.

And thanks for thinking of me.