PJ Ellis (00:38)

So today's guest is someone who brings colour, courage.

and clarity into everything she does. Recently awarded the Solista of the Year at and the Greater Birmingham Young Professional of the Year. She's on fire. using her voice to empower others, to talk about personal branding, wellbeing and the importance of showing

I absolutely love that welcome to wit and grit Becca Hawley. How are you mate?

Becca Horley (01:06)

Thanks for having me.

Andy (01:07)

You're welcome.

PJ Ellis (01:08)

You're welcome.

You're welcome. What about that intro?

Becca Horley (01:10)

Yeah, I'll keep that. I think I'll have that written down for my next review. I think that works quite well.

PJ Ellis (01:15)

So let's get straight into it. Solistra of the Year, Young Professional of the Year. We're lot older than you, Becca. So sometimes...

We understand that the road behind those achievements isn't always what you see online. I might tell a bit of a deeper story. Tell us a little bit about your story so far.

Becca Horley (01:35)

Yeah, of course. I think I've always been someone that looks for the positive in things. I try to, you know, put a smile on my face where I can because I think that that makes the day go better. But I think my story really, I guess a turning point, which is a good place to start, was a few years ago where I sort of felt like maybe I wasn't smiling as often. I didn't feel as positive every day and I felt quite stuck.

But I didn't really know what that meant. I just knew that I wasn't living a life as full as I wanted to really. And I just had a thought like, can I turn it around for myself? How can I be a happier version of me? And that's where I started really throwing myself into fitness. And I really, started running, I started weightlifting with bit more intention. And that really helped me mentally. think when you can't control how you feel in your brain.

taking control of your physical health really helped. So that was something that I started. I I've always loved fitness, but I sort of fell out of love with it a little bit and came back into it. And so a few years ago, I started basically just taking better care of myself. And then that led into me feeling more confident within myself and then thinking, how can I explore fashion and how I show up and sort of present a version of me that is more authentic for me.

Because I think in the legal industry, when I was younger, you'd always see sort of an old white man in a suit and that's what you thought a lawyer was. And I'm trying really hard to sort of change the perspective for, know, aspiring lawyers out there that you can look however you want. And, you know, if you've got the ambition, you've got the passion, it doesn't matter what you look like and you can show up as yourself.

So yeah, I basically just focused on taking a bit better care of myself. And I think just keeping the promises that I made to myself, that's something that I'm really trying really hard to do because I've built up a real sense of resilience and guess self-respect because when I say I'm going to do something, I then go and do it. And that sort of, and had a ripple effect all throughout the rest of my life and my career. So I was looking after myself better, sleeping better, eating better, all those sorts of things.

And then I was actually doing better at work because I have more energy and more time for everyone else. So I think my journey really is one of, I guess, self-care. And putting myself first, because that's not self-care, it's actually the best thing to do for other people.

Andy (03:58)

Can we go back to those kind of moments then, Becca, when you made the decision to start the Kineth yourself a little bit better? Because I think there's lots of excuses we have in the world we live in. We're busy, haven't got the time to do that, et cetera, et cetera. So I guess it wasn't one day and then the next you were fixed. What was that journey like from saying, I'm going to do this to, do know what, I'm feeling a lot better?

Becca Horley (04:21)

I think for me, I was kind of sick of my own excuses. I think that's where it starts. So that's sort of, know, I'll start in January, I'll start next year. Maybe when with a legal role, you have a training contract for two years and that's often, you know, it's like a two year job interview. It's really, really tough. You're always working with other people, trying to impress other people. And it's very easy to neglect yourself while you're working so hard to, you know, get the job that you want at the end.

It started off small really, was just like the first goal I had was just to incorporate daily movement once a day, whether that's a walk, a run, literally even just walk around the block once, was just to start small with that. And it's like having a tick list in your brain, but when you sort of do the first one, you're I can achieve that. And I thought, well, I'll do daily movement then plus maybe I will start cooking from fresh instead of ordering things or, you know, even just things like washing your hair more often or like

ironing a jacket before you go out. I used to be like, oh, I'm not really someone that irons my clothes because I don't have time for it. But actually, when I had an important meeting, ironing that pair of trousers and that top, that made me feel much more confident because I felt smarter when we were put together. And it's all these little things. It might only take five minutes at a time, but adding them together to present myself in a better way. But yeah, it wasn't overnight. think it's been...

probably two to two and a half years of hard work of sort shaping and becoming the person I wanted to be. But I had a really clear goal, what I thought, you know, the successful, fashionable, ambitious woman looked like. And I created a vision board and then just went after it.

Andy (06:00)

Talk us through, because again, big fan from what I do, we talk about visioning boards and mood boards and that kind of thing. So for someone who's never done it or isn't quite sure what it is, can you just explain a little bit about what that is and why you did it?

Becca Horley (06:13)

Yeah, of course. have, I so I do it every year and I used to do it around my birthday, which is March, which is springtime as well, which I think is quite a nice time to have a period of change instead of making it a hard, fast first of January. Well, because January's not fun anyway, so I don't try and put too much pressure on myself at that time of year. But I create a board which has pictures of lots of different things on there. So it might be a fitness

know, personality that I find really inspiring or a place I want to go on holiday or it might be. So, for example, I did put Solicitor of the Year and Young Professional of the Year on the board this year with a little medal, like emoji picture and basically just make it colourful. I've got quotes on there that I love. I've got one which just says, I will attract amazing opportunities into my life and that's in the middle of it. And it's in my hallway, so I walk past it every day.

And it's just a reminder to me, I think if you can't visualize yourself achieving these goals and how can you convince other people that you're going to, yeah, I love my vision board and it's almost like a scrapbook as well. So as I've achieved the things I've wanted to, I've added pictures. So I've got a picture from the awards on there. I've got a picture. I did the Great South Run recently. So I put my medal on there. So it's like a collection of achievements and I think it's like a happy place to look at in the day.

PJ Ellis (07:34)

that, the happy place to look at. I was that sad place that you used to look at I suppose. I was that old white man in a suit when I was a lawyer many years ago and actually part of my challenge when I was a lawyer was that well I won't go into it too much but my name is Peter but everyone knows me PJ but I was always being asked to be Peter so I was instantly felt like I wasn't the right

person for the job. I also wanted to dress differently, which brings me on to the question I've got of you. You talk about, I think on LinkedIn it says, dressing for the career you want. And every time I see you, you look amazingly turned out. You've just said how now that journey was about presenting yourself differently. Why do think that's so important, Becca?

Becca Horley (08:21)

I think it's important because it's who I am. And I think that if I'm pretending to be someone I'm not to fit in, then I'm not going to be happy. And I think I bring my best self to work and to life when I feel like myself. fashion for me is my outlet of self-expression, but that can be anything for anyone. But I think fashion is a really clear statement of if you feel...

If you want to wear something colourful or bright, know, fashion holds a lot of stories as well of culture and just like different things. You people might have bought something from holiday. The amount of conversations I've had with people, know, I like those earrings back, where are they from? And I say, oh, you know, I got them from Lisbon when I went there with my sisters. And it's part of the conversation of, you know, we go on a sister trip every year, but I would never have had that conversation if I hadn't worn those earrings. I have, you know, it's fascinating. I think a lot more people.

have real stories with fashion as well. to bring it back to your point why it's important is because why would we want to be the same as everyone else? I think we as a community are so much richer by being completely ourselves.

Andy (09:29)

And we've chatted about this a couple of times on the pod. There is, though, a danger, almost a societal expectation that you need to fit in We recently had a couple of really, really talented young ladies on here just beginning their entrepreneurial journey. And it kind of came out a little bit, the pressures of social media and that sort of thing. So what's your, I mean, you must have been through the journey. What would your advice be to people who feel...

either they're starting out on the career or they're in an industry where you need to display the same types of behaviors or characteristics. Where do you get that either belief or strength to be you rather than feeling like you've got to be something else?

Becca Horley (10:07)

I think there's two parts to it. So I think you need to be in the right workplace to begin with. You need to surround yourself with people that are like-minded and support you and want the best for you. And people that want the best for you will want you to be yourself. So I think first of all, making sure you work somewhere with people that are on the same vibe. I think that's really important. And then second of all, think just seeing how you feel when you are showing up to yourself, because I think even if it might be a bit scary,

we all feel better when we know we're doing things that are authentically true to ourselves because it takes more effort, I think, to try and pretend to be someone you're not. And that's, it's quite a liberating feeling knowing that you yourself, you know, I have, I have this skirt I sometimes wear to the office, which is really extra. It's like a really big princess skirt, but I wear it because that's when I feel most myself. And there's a, I did a post actually on LinkedIn when I was four.

There's a picture of me going to this birthday party with like a princess wand and this big skirt on. I was thinking, oh, that's why I like it, because that's what I chose to wear before society had any expectations of me. So I'm going to start wearing it now because that's how I feel about me.

PJ Ellis (11:16)

So where did you get that inspiration from, Becca? My lived experience, I'm a lot older than you, 46. And if I'm completely honest with you, it's only recently that I've started to become a little bit more comfortable with who I am, how I look, what I wear, how I sound. And that's been off the back of trauma, like losing mom. And me, caring a little less, not caring, but just caring a little less about what people think.

Becca Horley (11:42)

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (11:43)

Was there any moment in time where that princess was hidden away from the world and then the princess came back out?

Becca Horley (11:50)

Yeah, sure. think, I mean, I went through a difficult period in my life for a few years, sort of through COVID, until around I'm 23. And I remember just feeling like, I just, didn't feel like me. And I was like, what is it? I, what can I do that's simple? And so, you know, wearing bright lipstick or wearing a skirt feels like me. I might feel like rubbish on the inside, but at least I can pretend to myself for a bit that I feel happy, you know, in this skirt. And I think as well, I just...

I remember where I was, I was just on a walk and I was thinking, there's got to be more for me out there than this. Like, you were really, you know, excitable, happy child, and now you're sort of feeling, I guess, just a bit gray. And then I was like, well, actually, that's not who I am. And the way I would describe it is, you when you look at like a bunch of flowers that are colorful, it sort of boosts your mood, or that's a nice gift. I feel like dressing myself colorfully is like my gift to myself.

like giving myself a bunch of flowers and just trying to be more positive. I really believe as well that's how we speak to ourselves, being kind to ourselves. And I think when I show up wearing clothes that I love, feeling positive, you that then tears my brain, you look all right today. And then, you know, it starts from there.

Andy (13:07)

Yeah, we spend the most time of our day talking to ourselves, don't we? That's kind of the reality. Just back to that walk when you kind of said, well, it's got to be more to this than at the moment. What happened next? What happened in the days, week, maybe months after that to give, enable you to start to feel more like who you wanted to be?

Becca Horley (13:19)

Mm-hmm.

So I would listen to a few podcasts of people that I found inspiring and I actually wrote a list. I did a presentation to some aspiring sisters recently at the Bournemouth Society and I said that I wrote a list in 2003 and it's a list which says, you what does a successful and happy woman look like? And I wrote that she would take care of herself, she would...

You know, wear clothes that were bold. I think I unapologetically bold, that's what I wrote on the list. And I wrote that she would eat well, sleep well, that she would have boundaries. And I basically created this list of this person I wanted to be and then worked hard every day to sort of behave like that person before I was that person, if that makes sense. So I was...

Andy (13:58)

Yeah.

Becca Horley (14:15)

you know, even if it felt really scary to say no to something, I'd practice being like, no, I can't come to that, unfortunately, you know, I'm not available. And the reason might be because I'm going to the gym or because I'm going to do a food shop for healthier food, but I would just practice saying no to these different things because it's okay to say no. But my brain before, I think, as a sort of chronic people pleaser, didn't really know how to say no and thought that you were upsetting other people by saying no. But what about me? I think that's what my brain...

what I would say to myself is that, well, if you're letting down someone, wouldn't you rather let down someone else than let down yourself? But I didn't, I had to re-shift my perspective. So it wasn't immediate, but I definitely, I wrote this list and was like, let's go and try and be her and see how that works out.

Andy (14:59)

Where did that come from? Where did that idea come from? The confidence to do that? Because not everyone would either A, think of doing it or B, do it because they might feel a bit of a fraud maybe. So what happened?

Becca Horley (15:11)

Yeah,

it's a very interesting question because I actually don't know. I just think that I was looking around at other people, especially either in the legal profession or I guess on social media and thinking, I want a bit of what they've got. And maybe it was based on this, you know, because, you know, on Instagram, it's obviously not always the whole truth because everyone's posting their best selves. But I think I just was, mean, I did compare myself and I thought, well,

a lot more people seem to be having lot more fun than I am, so I'm going to try and have a bit more fun. So I wasn't a particular person or moment, it was just a let's create, give myself the chance really to try and be happier. And it worked out well, which is great.

PJ Ellis (15:53)

Fair play to you, mate. I live by some of those, you know, a yes is always a no to something else. And, you know, it's taken a long time to be able to say no confidently or positively, if that makes sense. And I don't know where that came from, probably podcasts or books or just being burnt out, I suppose, at times. I've written here, not letting others down, might be letting yourself down, I love that. And you mentioned boundaries earlier.

Becca Horley (15:58)

Mm-hmm.

PJ Ellis (16:16)

I'm trying to sort of fashion them as non-negotiables. So, you know, we have breakfast at eight o'clock without the phones. And that was off the back of a conversation I had with Andy and how he communicates and spends time with his boys. Do you have any sort of other boundaries, clear non-negotiables that might be next to your vision board?

Becca Horley (16:20)

Yes.

Yeah, I think so I really, I I actually put in my work calendar my other personal commitments. And I have a, so I have a list which is, let's call my 28 for 28 list. So I did one last year when I was 27. I basically made a list of 27 experiences or goals that I wanted to achieve that were strictly non-work related. Because I think as a lawyer, we have a to do list as long as our arm.

all the time and it's never anything to do with looking after yourself, it's always to do with, you know, looking after other people. And I think because I'm medical mentions solicitor, I deal with a lot of emotive work and I have to show up as my full self for other people to make sure I have the capacity to understand their issues and advocate for them. But if I show up as sort of a shell of myself, then I'm not going to have the sort of the battery power to do that.

So I try really, really hard to keep working on my personal to-do list while working on my work one so that I have that energy. So yeah, I would say that my non-negotiables are making time for myself. So when I wake up in the morning, I always do something for me before I do something for work. So whether that's, you know, taking time to make something nice for breakfast to take in with me or going to the gym, going for a run. My, yeah, my number one non-negotiable is wake up and do something for me. Slot gloves.

Andy (17:55)

Why law then? Let's go a little bit back. Let's start talking about the career a little bit. So why did you enter the legal field?

Becca Horley (17:58)

Mm-hmm.

So I went to Sixth Form College in Winchester, and that's near where I'm from, in the New Forest, and I studied law as one of my A-levels, and that was mainly criminal law at the time. And I just really enjoyed it. I thought it was really interesting. I liked the idea of helping someone with a career that makes a difference. That was always something that I really wanted. And I did law, biology, and psychology at A-level.

I just really enjoyed learning more about how as humans we interact with each other and what makes us tick. And then I ended up going to the University of Birmingham and I studied law with criminology there, which was really, really interesting. We had a module which was all to do with medical negligence while I studying. And I just found it fascinating how, you know, all of the different issues within healthcare and there's not...

many lawyers who actually have the role of advocating for those people. And I think there's a universal feeling of if you don't feel seen or heard, you feel very disconnected. And I've had experiences of feeling like that in my life. And I thought, if through my work I can make more people feel understood, feel heard, feel advocated for, then that would be a career I'd be really proud of. I also love as well learning all about medicine. So I get two in one job. So I learn about the law and about medicine at the same time. So I'm never bored.

PJ Ellis (19:28)

I wish I had that passion for law when back in the day I just did it because Alan McBeal was on the telly and LA law and I thought I'd be able to wear cool suits and drink cocktails and stuff I suppose I did that. You talk about like people being heard you know if you're not heard you're disconnected etc Winchester New Forest Birmingham what what kept you around this city of ours?

Becca Horley (19:50)

Mm-hmm.

Oh, I'm from a very small village, so there's, you know, at end of my road is the New Forest, where you've got donkeys walking down the road, pigs and things. It's lovely. But I feel like, you know, the sense of community here in Birmingham is really what made me stay. I remember when I was at Birmingham Uni on the first day, said, oh, 80 % of people stay after uni. I was like, sure. I was like, you know, I was like, I actually really love where I'm from, so I'm sure I'll be here for uni and then I'll leave.

PJ Ellis (20:03)

Yeah, I love the name.

Becca Horley (20:22)

But I think it was the people that I've met and the way that I feel so connected. And I think, you know, I've always wanted a city job, but I wanted a city job with a community. So London never really appealed to me because I it's too big. And, you know, I'm part of Future Faces, which is one of the best networks that I've joined. And I've got some real lifelong friends through that. I think that's something that shows the community in Birmingham. People are friendly. People want to help you, lift you up.

So that's why I stayed.

PJ Ellis (20:52)

So I'm just jumping in. If you're enjoying these conversations, well, we are bringing those to life at Witton Grid live at Millennium Point in Birmingham on the 30th of January, 2026. 300 people, real talk, life lessons, even a moment to breathe, proper takeaways you can use straight away. Get your tickets at wittongrid.co.uk forward slash register. It's going to be a good one, Bab. Right, let's get back to the conversation.

Andy (21:24)

my lad, my eldest is 18 and certainly we've talked to a few people on the pod recently where university isn't maybe the to-go option that maybe it used to be. There's costs and all sorts associated with that. So what was the advantage of going through university do you think? How did it help you? And if it was today, do think you'd go through the same journey?

Becca Horley (21:44)

Yeah, that's an interesting thing. I think I would because of the type of job that I have, because I really enjoyed, I mean, from a practical basis, it's really good for studying the law. You know, I went to Birmingham University where, you know, the resources available are amazing. But there's lots of different routes to law now. So it's not if you can't afford to go to university or you don't want to.

There's definitely alternatives, but think the main thing for me was the friends that I made at uni and the life skills that I got. I think it's a really amazing opportunity that if you can live out, so I live home, you can live with your mates for three years. To have that experience of building lifelong friendships with people, and you know, it's the first time you have to budget and you have to do your own food shop

And it teaches you life skills that I don't think you can learn if you stay at home. And so I wouldn't change it because I think it should really help shape me as a person.

PJ Ellis (22:40)

I'm with you there. I wish I wish I'd actually gone to I went to UoB and I wish Not because it was it wasn't brilliant. The university was fantastic But I wish I'd gone away from my city because my brother went to Sheffield and he became so much more independent a lot quicker than me yeah I was always taking my washing back at weekends and you know leaning into the stuff that made me feel comfortable and in 28

Becca Horley (22:53)

Yeah.

knees,

PJ Ellis (23:05)

A gentleman

Becca Horley (23:06)

hips.

PJ Ellis (23:06)

shouldn't ask a lady your age, but you mentioned it earlier 28 in 28. So I noted that down And I would say I know it's sometimes you know, live in this filtered space, but I can just tell you're you're an organized confident ambitious individual and I worry That my boy he's 14 has all of that within him, but he might struggle doing the things that you've done

moving into another big city, whatever it might be. I know you do a lot of mentoring, again at 28 to mentor the amount of people that you do, fair play. What could we do more of, of a society or individuals or parents, whatever it might be, that you may have seen within your mentoring or being a child to parents, what could we do more of to make these kids as confident and as organised as somebody like you?

Becca Horley (23:32)

Bye bye.

think we need to be excited about things that other people are excited about and basically not put a ceiling on people's ambition. think the thing that my parents were always amazing at is when I would be excited about something they wouldn't go, that's a silly idea, or maybe not. They'd say, why are you excited? Or explore that with me. I think that's regardless of age. I think if you're in a room full of people...

that are sort of like, right, that's a nice idea and then start talking to someone else, it almost subconsciously makes you quieter. But I think we need to really allow people to have the space to share their ideas. And even if it's not something that you would want to do yourself, just get excited because I really care about lifting other people up. And also just saying it. There's a lot of times I've experienced managers might say to me, we've got no feedback for you, you're doing well.

But what am I doing well? Why am I doing well? What is different about me? And I think that's the reason as well that the awards have really helped me out because it's given me a platform to actually advocate for myself and learn that skill of saying the things out loud that I'm proud of. But also it's given me recognition that maybe other people, you know, it's funny, I've had a lot more people are much happier now to say, you know, are you doing really well now? Like all the things I do, the reason I won those awards, I was doing before. Does that make sense?

so I supervise a paralegal in my firm and I make a real conscious effort to say that was a really good job you did today or I really appreciate your help with that. You if this project wouldn't have been completed if you hadn't helped me because we don't hear it. You know, I might get, you know, if I, you know, when I was training, that letter was fine. It was a really good letter. I spent four days on it,

you work really hard on something and then someone just goes, that's fine, no amends. And you know, no amends is like a big compliment in law. And it's like, well, actually, you could have said you did a really good job. Maybe put a smiley face. I don't think that's that hard.

PJ Ellis (25:53)

Mate, you're so right, mate. I remember that, no amends.

Andy (25:56)

Going back to, well, you're obviously doing a lot of mentoring as PJ said. So just go back on your journey. Was there a time when you needed that help yourself, whether it's a coach, a manager, a mentor? And could you talk to us a little bit about your own personal journey having been supported, developed by others?

Becca Horley (26:00)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, of course. mean, something that I really am passionate about is more people doing mentoring because I've never actually had a formal mentor. I applied to so many different mentoring schemes and throughout university no one ever, I was never paired with anyone. I'm also the first in my family to go to law school, so no one in my family does anything to do with law. And, you know, they can give me the moral support, but I didn't actually have any direction of how to do an application form.

best to say an interview, what's where to an interview, should you show up early, should you show up on time, you know, all these different things. And so, I mean, I've had some really amazing line managers and people that I've worked with since, and also being part of the LinkedIn community in law, I've actually met some people, you know, virtually that have given me some really amazing advice, whether that's on WhatsApp or in messages. So I've got people I can definitely call on now. But for a long time, was, I think my

progress was slower than it could have been because I was figuring it all out for myself with no one really to give me that guidance. I had some amazing friends at uni and I think they definitely, you know, we would sort of work it out together. But that's why I do the mentoring now and I really make an intentional effort to make time for it because there just wasn't anyone that would just answer my questions or questions that I thought were silly. And they weren't silly questions, but no one, you know, there was no one that I could email and just say, oh, I'm thinking about applying to this firm.

you know, what should I do? Or I'm really interested in medical management, what work experience can I do? Is there anything non-legal I can get involved with? No one had the answers. So I'm trying my best to first of all make time to mentor myself, but also to encourage all lawyers just to spend 20 minutes once a month giving someone some advice about actually giving them the confidence to let go for the job they actually want as well.

Andy (28:00)

That's fascinating to me that no one would respond to you. Because we work across a lot of sectors and work with leadership teams and people like that. Generally, people are much more responsive. Why was that the case, do think?

Becca Horley (28:20)

I'm not sure. I you know, I sort of got a bit of courage and started just emailing partners directly, being like, can I come in? And it took hundreds of emails before someone said yes. There was a firm in Southampton that I spent a few days in their family law team when I was 18. And that was the first time I'd actually been ever in a law firm, as you know, sat with any sort of lawyers or met lawyers. And that was through a family connection in the end that I managed to do that.

But it was really hard and I think it creates a barrier between the legal profession and the people trying to enter it, which doesn't make any sense to me because we want, you know, really passionate, really excited, aspiring lawyers. But if we almost create this fence, they have to jump over, you know, or like, you know, guess the password before you're allowed in. It doesn't feel right to me, you know? I just feel that I need to have a more flexible approach because...

I don't know if people know, but lawyers are humans too. I think, you know, people will think, you know, if they're their children or if they're their family, they'd offer those opportunities. But for me, I didn't have someone who was a friend who worked in a law firm or someone's parents, none of my parents' friends are in law. And I think that we're almost shutting off quite a big part of community if we don't just say yes. And, know, sometimes I'll have LinkedIn messages that say, can we do work experience in X, Y, Z? And I won't be able to say yes to everyone.

but I'll be able to signpost them to either a mentoring scheme or a network to get involved with while they're studying or something of use. But yeah, I don't know why there was such a sort of block with me trying to have a mentor, but I think it's changing. But I think also as well, Birmingham is different. I wasn't in Birmingham when I was asking for those opportunities. I was in the small little village where I'm from trying to get somewhere.

in Southampton or London. So I think that's what makes Birmingham so great is that people do say yes a lot more.

PJ Ellis (30:15)

I find that I find that genuinely. I've always said if you ask someone in Birmingham for help, the response is usually positive. ⁓ And I'm glad that after all those emails, which shows a lot of resilience, you know, could be easily stopped at second email, third email and back a whole, he would have had a slightly different life, I suppose. And that lives took you to Shoesmith's brilliant, brilliant business and now to Fletcher's Group. I don't know much about Fletcher's Group, but tell me a little bit more about that business.

Becca Horley (30:22)

Yeah.

Thanks.

Yeah, so we're new in Birmingham, so that's really exciting. So our medical and excellence team were acquired from Shoesmiths into Fletcher's and Fletcher's are a well-established, fast-growing clinical and excellence and personal injury business, majority across the North initially. But our Shoesmiths teams are based in Birmingham, Reading and Northampton. And we've just opened up new offices in those locations. And so something that I've been passionate about is

getting the name out there for the work that we do in the region. So we've literally, first to September, opened the doors to our new office in the Birmingham City Centre. So very, very new business to Birmingham. We've got some really amazing talents and lawyers here and also as well, there's some amazing aspirants. is work as our support as well. And it's a really exciting place to be for sure. there's lots of different firms do lots of different things.

but because Fletcher's is very bespoke in terms of only doing medical and clinical emergency work and also we've just had quite a family business as well, so it's all very individual based. But yes, exciting place to be in there, excited to have me, which is nice.

PJ Ellis (31:52)

That is nice. And you know what? If I wrote everything down, and I have wrote a lot down from today, I would say that Becca Hawley has very much got it going on. However, what do you find tough? Because obviously you're smashing it, that's the technical term, when it comes to awards and you're doing brilliant in your career and it sounds like you've got it all going on. What do you find tough in life? What do really have to work at, Becca?

Becca Horley (32:19)

I think I have to work at sometimes not feeling lonely. I think that's something that I actually struggle with because when you set a lot of boundaries for yourself and you focus on you, naturally that does eradicate other people or the way you spend your time often can be a bit more in solitude. And so even though I look like I'm always out and about, I live by myself, I go to the gym by myself, I mean I have a PT once a week but often I am doing a lot of the hard work.

when people aren't watching is by myself, if that makes sense. So even though I have an online presence on LinkedIn, I'm very sociable. The reason I'm so sociable is because I do spend a lot of time by myself. And something that I try and share, especially with young professionals, is that it's powerful to be okay by yourself because the longest relationship we have in our whole life, obviously, was with ourself. And so we have to get that long life first.

But that often means sitting in the uncomfortable thoughts or when you're having a bad day, being like, oh, Becca's the only one that we can talk to about this. And that can be hard. I do find that hard sometimes. I spend a lot of time by myself. But I think as well it's given me clarity and space because the more time you have to think about what you want in life, you then have a better idea of what it is. And so I think actually it's something that's given me a real...

I guess appreciation as well when I'm with other people that are excited about all things that I spent working on, all by myself.

PJ Ellis (33:46)

Thank you for sharing that, mate, because I'm very similar to you. Everyone would probably think I'm a social butterfly, but it took me a while to realise that I'm probably more introverted and I need to withdraw and get my batteries recharged by being on my own and being safe with that. Can you just give me some advice then, PJ Ellis, Andy knows this already, struggling a bit, throwing everything into work at times, I'm grafting away all that hard work alone.

you get outside, you move rooms. Is there anything, any tips there?

Becca Horley (34:14)

Yeah.

So I mean, movements always helped, but I try and join that with maybe having a phone call with someone. So reaching out to a family member or a friend. Podcasts are actually a real lifeline for me because they're a voice in my ear when I am by myself. You know, I listen to probably five or six different podcasts almost religiously every week because I walk a lot as well. So I'm based in the Birmingham city centre, but it means that I'm on foot a lot. So I probably spend about an hour, an hour and a half a day walking. And that can be

quite lonely as well if you're not talking to anyone. So I try and either walk with a friend into the office or listen to a podcast. I think as well it's like reminding yourself why you're doing it because you there's a goal at the end of it and a lot of amazing things are sort of you know you have to burrow away and work on it and then you come back out at the end. A phrase that I quite like is sort of an analogy of like you know the different seasons that we have you know can't

flowers don't bloom all year round, so you have to go and hibernate and you have to go and work on these things. And yes, that can feel lonely, but then you reap the reward when the flower blooms and that can be either winning the award or securing the job that you've always wanted or making a difference. And that feedback comes back in lots of different ways. I mean, I had a really lovely experience last week where there's a guy in my office and he came up to me and said, you know,

I've been feeling much more confident recently. And I said, oh, why is that? And he said, oh, I've started wearing smarter shirts to work because I saw that you were really confident because of lately dress. And now I just, you know, I thought I'd make a bit more effort. It's actually worked. And I thought, you know, a lot of, I think people might think, oh, well, she was really appealing to, you know, maybe younger women or women in general. actually, confidence is a human thing. It's not just a female thing, if that makes sense.

PJ Ellis (35:54)

Yeah, it's really helpful. I always say, even at working from home, you can get into your slobby clothes and it just affects your whole sort of mood, doesn't it? You've got to present yourself properly. Like when you look in that mirror and you feel better, it does affect. That's really helpful, thank you. Flowers don't bloom all year round, love that.

Andy (36:10)

So what's next, Becca? What's next for you in terms of your personal growth journey professionally? I guess you always want to stick around the legal sector, you may or may not want to, but what you're working on? What you're developing? What kind of muscles are you working on from a career perspective?

Becca Horley (36:28)

So from a career perspective, I'm really working on public speaking. It's something that I was always absolutely terrified of. So my 2025 goal was to get over that fear and start talking about things that I care about and trying to make a difference. And I find actually quite an adrenaline rush once I've done some public speaking, because it rewires my brain. goes, oh, you didn't die when you did that, so maybe you could do it again.

And I just, it's given me so many exciting opportunities and you know, people have reached out to different things in 2026 that I never would have dreamed that I would have had the chance to do, but it's because I was brave enough to try. And you know, the first time I did a speech, it was in front of hundred people for the Law Society and my legs were like trembling, like, and I was so nervous. But afterwards I was like, oh, so you can do it.

So yeah, I'm working on public speaking because I really love sharing the message. And I think, you know, I'm starting to create a snowball effect of hopefully making people feel more confident and more authentic themselves. And I think we need people that fight the corner, you know, and speak up. So I would like to carry on doing that and just, you know, carry on working on, I work on lots of different medical insurance cases. So, you know, that's my day job.

So I want to keep progressing those and advocating for people making change within the healthcare sector. I think that's why I'd love to be incorporated with more fashion, a bit more fun within my career. So when that's collaborating, I think sort of confidence-based, leadership-based, that's sort where I'm looking to go.

Andy (38:00)

Brilliant. You just mentioned you like public speaking talk about things you care about, which is great. And by the way, I've seen some of your career cases that you've worked on. You've done an amazing job so far. I think it was the Paterson case in particular. So well done on that. You've helped a lot of people. But outside of work, what are the things you care about that you're keen to have a voice on or share your experiences about?

Becca Horley (38:20)

Mm-hmm.

I think I'm keen to share sort of the, I guess the ritual of being proud of yourself and being openly proud of yourself is okay. And I think that in society, I think we're often more palatable if we're quieter. I think that actually it's okay, you know, it's not arrogant to just say, oh, I'm really proud of this thing that I've done. If it's made a difference to someone or it's an achievement that you're really proud of. So,

Yeah, I think just giving people the confidence just to speak about what they care about because we're all going to be a much more interesting community if we all actually know about each other's achievements too. Because often, you know, you were to read someone's CV that they've never actually spoken out loud, well, didn't they do all those things? But we should be finding out more about it because then we can build stronger relationships with people because it's going to be cross-sections of people's personalities and ambitions that we didn't even know about.

I just think as well, we'll get better opportunities. If we actually speak up, then people know about it. If you don't say it, people don't know it, and then you can't be in the room for opportunities that could potentially change your life if you don't say it.

PJ Ellis (39:33)

Yeah, hang on, those rooms, I love that. Podcasts, any recommendations then? So you're listening to three or four or five maybe. Which of those are your favorite? What are they?

Becca Horley (39:41)

Yeah.

they're more funny ones. So I listen to a podcast called Health, Ice, Sex and My Boss. I don't know if you've heard of it, but it's like an agony podcast. It's with Jordan North and William. do like, there's basically someone from the North, someone from the South. And they basically have this sort of dialogue about different situations, how to deal with them. And one of them, you know,

very posh, one of them's not and it's just how things sort go through and it's just a bit of a laugh, it puts me in a know light-hearted mood in the morning. I also really like this one called Newlyweds, Newlyparents with Sophie, LeBou and Jamie Lamb and I love this. I think what I actually, thinking about it now, they're not career podcasts, they're just uplifting podcasts, they're ones that make me laugh and I think starting the day by walking to work laughing, people thinking what's she laughing at?

You know, having literally having a gig at one of the most work puts me in a positive mood. So I'd say it's more a mindset thing than an actual content thing.

PJ Ellis (40:41)

Yeah, bang on. mean, there's only so many business books you can listen to, right, after you've read them. ⁓ Andy,

Becca Horley (40:47)

Well, I think as well,

all I do all day is very academic work that's very intense. I mean, it's like when people enjoy watching like Love Island or, you know, other sort of reality TV because you kind of, you can gain entertainment from it, but you don't have to really put your brain into it.

PJ Ellis (41:05)

escapism isn't it that makes you smile love that

Becca Horley (41:07)

Yes.

Andy (41:10)

Last question for me, Becca, if I may. So one of us is in his 50s and one of us is in his 40s. Right. let you work that one out for yourself. obviously there's, there's lots of talented young people coming into the workplace now and yeah, slightly different experiences of life too. So I'm interested in a bit of advice for us, our generation about how do you develop and welcome younger talent into your organization?

Becca Horley (41:31)

You

Andy (41:37)

without expecting the old way of you work your way up through the organization. So what could we be better at to encourage our younger people to thrive?

Becca Horley (41:48)

think listening, first of all, think just really allowing people to, know, asking the question, what do you want from your career? What could we get you involved in that would really excite you? You know, also what would incentivize you to, you know, really either want to stay in the business or, you know, what opportunities can they give you outside of your standard day-to-day role? I guess it's all about being excited. That's what I know I talk about that a lot, but it's really having the opportunities to do things maybe outside of the role as well.

and sort of having more of an expansive, all-encompassing career instead of just a, sit down at your desk, nine to five, if you your target, it's great, then you can go home. Because I don't think that's really what life looks like anymore or what careers look like. And, you know, I guess give people freedom to give ideas and say, actually, if we did this bit differently, would you consider trying it? And I think just being willing to, you know, to change maybe the way that systems are run or...

For example, I've had team meetings before where it's on the phone and everyone's gone for a walk instead of actually sitting down on a teams meeting. And some are like, well, that's not very productive if you're not starting your laptop. But actually, it's way more productive because everyone's had a half an hour walk and we've all shared our ideas. And then we've sat back down again, feeling better because we've been outside. So I think it's just thinking outside the box. I think just showing willingness to listen goes a really long way.

PJ Ellis (43:08)

wrote down earlier don't put a ceiling on people's ideas you know that freedom sort of thing. I always end with a few takeaways Becca and literally I mean I should have been a doctor because I can't understand my own writing instead of a lawyer but wow have a tick list in your brain wash your hair more often that doesn't apply to me small changes big impacts create a vision board every year maybe around your birthday

Becca Horley (43:12)

Mm-hmm.

Hahaha

PJ Ellis (43:34)

I will attract amazing opportunities in my life. Fashion can start stories. Keep the promises you make to yourself. Make room for other commitments. Flowers don't bloom all year round. Dressing myself colourfully is like giving myself flowers. Be unapologetically bold. I could go on, honestly. I was really excited for this one and I'm sure Andy would agree it did not.

disappoint you've got so much baked into your journey already and genuinely I can't wait to see what the future looks like for Becca Hawley Thank you so much for joining us today

Becca Horley (44:09)

Thank you. It's a really nice speech you both.

PJ Ellis (44:10)

Okay, cool. It's