Welcome to Tax Bites for Expats, the top tax tips you

want to know as an expat. The podcast is here to help answer

the common queries and concerns expats have when moving to or

from Ireland. Complex taxes explained simply.

We'll focus on the Irish and international tax issues to be aware

of to ensure you save time, money and stress.

Hi everyone, Podcast producer Matt here stepping in for Steph as the

tax assessment period starts to round itself off a bit.

This episode is part two of Steph's recording with Sean Carney

of Amboy wealth. So if you haven't listened to part one yet,

scroll up in your feed and give it a listen. Sean is an

expert financial planner helping Irish expats in the US to plan for their

future and avoid the pitfalls of the tricky US tax system

and what Irish citizens commonly ignore regarding managing US

Finances. In part two we hear about Sean's best

approaches to financial management. Some great tips for Irish expats

that really brings together their discussion so far and a bit of behind

the scenes advisory banter that you won't hear anywhere

else. Enjoy.

I guess my role in this. If somebody said to me, what is your role

in this whole process? My role in this is I project

manage, I guess, more than anything else. Yes, the financial planning piece, which is

a huge piece because again, it goes back to the piece that I said that,

you know, if you don't know where your destination is, then it really doesn't matter

what route you take. So the financial planning piece is incredibly

important, I. E. Let's decide or try and establish what

life is going to look like for the next 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60

years once we understand what that looks like. Now let's

start layering back in the money. And as part of that money

piece, let's talk to Steph, let's talk to estate

planners, let's talk to specialist advisors to make sure

that we're doing everything in the most tax efficient manner possible. And that's

another piece. I am not one of these people and I genuinely

don't think you are either. There are a lot of tax advisors out there and

a lot of clients out there that want to do things in the most

tax efficient manner possible. So give me a

solution that allows me to pay zero tax and I'm

happy. And again, I spoke to a tax advisor over here, a US

guy that deals with very, very high net worth

individuals. I asked him about that. I said, do you take into

account a client's wishes or a client's

Lifestyle requirements going forward or is it purely

tax based? And his answer to me, and I loved it was he goes, you

know, we deal with high net worth individuals, really high net worth

individuals, but I never want the tail to be wagging the dog. I

never want them to take the tax solution that's purely a tax

solution. Forget about what life looks like around it because I think

what a lot of people need to realize, and again, this is a wealth problem.

I guess the wealthier you are, the more tax becomes a

problem. But for these people, I think

they need to, I guess, try and understand,

let's live life first and let's put the tax piece around

it because. And again, it'd be interesting

your thoughts on this. But a lot of tax strategies are very

similar to investment strategies and that's what they ultimately

are. Because going into tax efficient vehicles, things

change, the world changes, legislation changes. So just because

you go into a tax vehicle today doesn't mean that in 10 or 15

years, when you think that tax vehicle is going to mature, pay everything out

tax free doesn't necessarily mean that that's the way that it's going to be in

the future. So it's about making sure, I guess, you know, let's not try and

be too smart, let's be smart, let's pay as little tax as we can, but

let's live life first of all, because at the end of it, all you're going

to end up with is a lot of money in the bank when. You'Re dead

to give to other people. Do you know what, right when you're saying that, to

give you my tokens worth of what you're saying. And I'll give you an example,

right? We have a coffee machine and I love my morning coffee,

right? It's kind of like the highlight of my day. It's like a lot of

exciting, says a lot about how exciting my life is, doesn't it? And we had

a conversation the other day about the price of beads, okay, so you could

go out and you can buy coffee beans and you can get, you know, mediocre

coffee beans. Chances are I probably wouldn't drink the coffee as often if it wasn't

that nice. Or you can get the nice coffee beans, which, you know, think it

works out like a euro, a cup, which is not going to break the bank

compared to what you'd pay elsewhere. I think my point is this.

Sometimes, you know, Ireland's a nice cup of coffee. In other words,

it's not a cheap cup of coffee. But if it's the coffee you want, have

it. And I often think of it like that. Like, don't deprive yourself of

the ability to be where you want to be in the

notional idea that, oh, I'm going to save all this money and what am I

going to do with it? Like, exactly what you're saying is, you

know, money is there to be used and to be spent. And I think people

do a bit of research on the Internet and they think, oh, my goodness, this

is going to cost us a fortune. Do you know what? It probably is going

to cost more money. You can dress it up whatever way you want, but sometimes

that's worth it. And having somebody help you navigate that.

Most people are actually okay with that concept. Most people don't mind the

concept of it's going to cost you marginally or somewhat more to

come back to do X, Y and Z. That, to me, often is a happy

client. The client who's told, don't ever drink coffee again. It's bad for

you and it costs you money and you're going to be miserable, but you'll have

loads of money in your bank account. That's not a happy client. That's just a

client with money in the bank. They're not the same thing. Yeah. And that's the

planning thing. That's why I park the money piece.

If I can understand, and if I get the client to fully understand what

it is that they want, life. And again, the line I use is, tell me

what life looks like. If somebody else is bankrolling, let's not worry. Now you're

assuming the clients are going to come back and say, I want a Ferrari and

I want seven houses and I want. I want a one. I was going to

tell you that's what I wanted. You don't offer that.

Yeah, absolutely. Someday, please God, I'll be able to give all of my clients a

million dollars and let them go off and live the bankroll their life, or pick

maybe one a year. But that's the reality. If you can get somebody to understand

that piece, you know, you can modify that and you can say, okay, this is

what it's going to cost. One of the things that I get over here all

the time is clients coming to me and saying, and I like this because

it's a lot of an easier process of planning. Somebody says, I'm not going home.

And I go, okay. Then it's back to that piece where it's the straight road,

it's the big desert road. Financial planning, you're here today, you're going to

die in the future in the U.S. so we're all we're planning in

the U.S. i suppose just to be clear, being an Irish

person permanently resident in the US is a lot easier from a

financial planning for a tax perspective than an Irish person. That's us connect living

in Ireland. I completely agree with that. Completely agree with that. So

again, they're the clients that are easier for me to do

and get them to plan out. And when you dig deep, it

goes back and they're the same. I sit down with them and I say, well,

what does the next 10, 15, 20 years look like? And when you start to

dig deep into it, the reason some of these people aren't going home

is because they don't think they can afford it. Because I'm earning great

money over here. I go home, my salary will be

50% my, you know, I can't afford to

live on half the salary I have. What they're trying to

work out, living on half the salary they have, paying $7 for a

cup of coffee, paying six grand for a two bed low

floor apartment in the middle of Manhattan. None of them things are what it

costs back in Ireland. So again, what we're able to do is we're able to

sit down and go, well, if you're telling me of what I hear and what

you're saying is that in an ideal world you'd move back to Ireland or

Ireland would become more of a piece of your life, well then let's look at

what that looks like. Because people are making the assumption that they can't afford it

without having any idea. And these are the very people that are going to die

at age 93 and a half somewhere upstate New York, living

in the forests with 5, 10, 15 million sitting in their bank account.

That's what the financial planning that I do does for people. It's

about taking that 15 million, spreading it back over your

lifestyle. Once you get to 80, 85 years of age, and again

this age is increasing, I call it the slowdown part of your

life. Because once you get to a certain age you've no choice. But most

people as well, I find, and I don't know if you find this, there is

a pull to Ireland at that point. It never leaves them. Yeah,

there's always this feeling of I want to go back now, I want to go

back. Yeah, it never leaves them. There's no question. But again,

what stops them? What stops them? Look, a lot of what stops them

is there are Touch points over here in the States. To me,

if your children get past halfway through high school,

which is secondary school, you've created a huge issue for yourself if you want to

go back to Ireland because they will probably finish school here, they will probably go

on to college here, they will qualify out of college here, they will stay here,

they will get boyfriends or girlfriends here, they'll have kids here. And now all of

a sudden you have a huge dilemma. As in, if I go back to Ireland,

my kids are here, my grandkids are potentially here. So that creates an

issue. Again, the world is a small place. One of the things I love about

New York, everyone has good days and bad days over here in New York.

And for me, on a bad day, my thought frame was always, you know, it's,

it's a six hour flight back to Dublin. If I really need to get to

Dublin tomorrow, so long as I'm at, so

long as I make that decision before 6:00 this evening, I can be at JFK

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00 tonight, back in Ireland tomorrow morning with the time difference.

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So it's not far away. But again, that bull over here,

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it's important that you understand that, you know, once you

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come over here, as you start to get older, if Ireland is part of that

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piece, there is a time where you probably stop yourself

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completely, allowing yourself to go back from a family perspective and

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that is probably from college age to. You're

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probably losing 10, 15, 20 years at that stage. Yes, people will then

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go back at 70, 80 years of age because it's what they

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want to do. But in my world, there is a happy medium that's there

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and it certainly takes some planning. But can we live between

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both? Can we spend X amount of time in Ireland and X amount of

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time in the U.S. expensive? Possibly. But again,

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that's something that we can look at. And it's funny. I was talking to a

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guy at a network the other day and that's exactly what he does.

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And he said, I said to him, when do you usually go back? And he

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said, I usually go back from the start of December to the end of

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February. I started laughing. I said, what in all this good and holy

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would bring you back to Ireland to what people would consider the worst time

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of year in Ireland? He said, well, first of all, it's Christmas and everyone's home

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at Christmas. And he said, second of all, I know it's going to be

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damp and cold, potentially snowy in January and

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February, but I live upstate New York. It's not great up there in

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January and February either. So that's his piece. So all these

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things are possible for people, but it takes planning and particularly

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that piece, you know, where are you tax resident? What we don't definitely want to

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do is we don't want to get called tax resident. In both places, there is

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a tax, the double tax agreement. But that's what we talk about. The

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planning piece. It's about understanding what we can do and then

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how we can do it. There's the other thing as well, and I mentioned this

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because I think there'll be people listening who are interested

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in this. We routinely get asked by

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some of our U.S. clients. And I said by U.S. clients, I

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mean the spouse, let's say the U.S. citizen with no previous Irish

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connection. And, you know, we will have a conversation with them and we'll determine

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through a discussion that they have an Irish

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domicile and they're coming back to Ireland. And they often have quite

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a specific fact pattern and a specific

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desire to invest in a certain way. Right. So without kind of

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boring people with the detail, I think my summary and

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takeaway for anybody listening to the podcast would be that Sean is

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the person to talk to if you're in that situation. And we've worked with many

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of them because I suppose as much as we're talking and focusing

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on, well, what happens to my US Position, there are

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considerations from a tax perspective for that client when they come to Ireland as to

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how the money should be invested through the lens of the US Authorities

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to the lends of the revenue commissioners, completely legitimately on both sides of

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the water, but with a nice low Irish tax bill. So if

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you're in that category, reach out to Sean, because he's one of the very few

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people who is licensed to be able to advise U.S. citizens

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in Ireland on Irish and U.S.

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financial issues. You're in a special space. Thank you very much

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for agreeing to talk to us. Yeah, no,

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that is key. You know, it's. It's there and

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it's possible for everyone. Again, it goes back to that piece

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where people don't seem to want to go and get advice

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for these things. They want to, I won't even say bury their head in the

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sand, but they just do what they do. And a very

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simple piece out there, particularly for us connected

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individuals, is, if you are resident in Ireland

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or resident in the US and your money is sitting in one of the life

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companies, you need to get advice about that. And what's a

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life company? What would you describe? You don't need to name them. You don't need

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to name them per se. But for anyone who's not sure what. You mean by

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that, the big insurance companies, again, the banks. If you have

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money invested through pretty much 90%

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of the financial advisors or financial institutions in Ireland, it's

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probably invested in the wrong place now. Wrong place. From a tax

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perspective, it's wrong because it's not as tax efficient. Irish

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advisors tend not to understand this. I struggle with it

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because it's not black and white. That's why you need to take on this

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whole. I guess it goes back to that project management piece where I can

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bring in the taxes specialist, I can bring in the investment

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specialist. These are the people that we need to sit down and get the right

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advice for. And obviously the more money you have, the more of an issue this

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becomes. Because the simple reason that you know you're

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going to pay more tax on more money, there's some things you can't avoid. If

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you're a US connected individual living in Ireland, you're paying into a company pension

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that's going to sit, 99% of them are going to sit in life companies. There's

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very little you can do because your company controls that. But again,

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that needs to form part of your annual tax return. So

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again, for me, that's a piece where we need to

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get proper advice in order to make sure that it's

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been invested in the most tax efficient manner or that we

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understand why it's not been invested in the most tax efficient manner.

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Yeah, and the thing is, people want that assurance, don't they? Like

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everybody wants to know that things have been done properly, tax

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efficiently and compliant.

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Essentially, yeah. And back to a point that you made

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earlier, the irs, but the US

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Government already know if a US connected individual

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has a financial account in Ireland because the onus is on the financial

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institutions to report back to the US So if you go

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in and you open something as simple as a bank account, one of the questions

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that's on it is, are you a green card holder or

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a U.S. passport holder? You have two choices at that point. You can either be

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honest if you are and say yes, or you can be dishonest,

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potentially commit fraud and say no, you're not. Now, it doesn't have a huge

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impact on the opening of the account, but from that perspective, the

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financial institution will report to the US that

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you have that account. So they already have this information that you have bank

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accounts, that you have investment accounts, that you have pensions, that any of these

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things that you have that information is sitting somewhere in the US

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Is it getting used at the moment? Potentially not.

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But it goes back to that piece, I guess that we're all getting more and

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more of akin to. And that is AI

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Big Data. The ability for AI to go in and

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manipulate or extrapolate facts from

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information is increasing daily. Just I was

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at an investment conference a couple of weeks ago and a

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bond speaker stood up and he said that one of the things he said

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was for the past 30 years we have been getting

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information, all the information on every mortgage that is taken

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out daily in the US So they have all the information on

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all the mortgages going back over 30 or 50 years now.

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He said that is so much information, there's very little that we could do with

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it. Again, the needle in the haystack piece he says, but now

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AI allows us to go into that whole database of

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50 year mortgages and extrapolate exactly what information

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that we need to be able to say, okay, here is

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now I think it's mortgage backed investment products that they create out of

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this. But again, you know, the ability is there.

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And again, who knows when that was starting to happen. And I'm not

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sitting here and telling people to not sleep at night. If you're

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not sleeping at night because you're worried that the IRS are going to come and

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knock on your door, then reach out to staff or reach out to me and

at 9 00:17:08

let's alleviate that issue. And as well as that, I sometimes

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do consults with clients and they'll say, I've been so worried about this.

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You know, I've been up at night. It's rarely as bad as people think it's

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going to be when they actually are proactive about it. So I think that's, you

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know, anyone listening to this thinking, oh, what should I do? This all sounds

at 9 00:17:25

too hard. Just do this one simple thing. Open your

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computer, go into your email and send an email to either Info at

at 9 00:17:32

Expat Taxes, that is, or your. Email address is

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Info at Envoy Wealth. Brilliant. And if

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you send those emails it. Does it look, the reality

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is is you know, the onus is on you from a legal perspective as a

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US connected individual to do a US tax return on an annual

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basis. And if you have never done it, it's an issue, but it's not a

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big issue and there are ways. There's a streamlined process there that

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allows you to become compliant. It costs money, not

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massive money. It can be done and brings you right up to

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date. It's not about, oh, I'm 50 years of age. I haven't done a tax

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return since I came back from the US 1979. I don't

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think them numbers work out, but it'll only go back a number of years.

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You get the information in and then you are fully compliant and fully up to

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date. And compliance is all the US Want. In general, what the US want

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is they just want to understand and know what their

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citizens are doing around the world. The treaty means that

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Ireland is a higher tax country than the US

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across the board. So the likelihood of you paying more

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tax when you're doing this tax return is very slim. From a US Perspective,

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it's very. It's very slim. And again, that's why, you know, if

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you're leaving the us close things down over there, pay your taxes over there because

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it becomes, you know, it saves you money in the long run. Definitely from a

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state perspective as well. Take advice on breaking your state residency position if

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possible. Yeah, yeah. Look, we could talk all

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day. Like it's. It's one of those things. I've got all day. It's only

10 00:19:04

18 for me in the morning. Four on a

10 00:19:08

Friday evening here, so 21st three, actually, I'm an hour ahead.

10 00:19:12

Sean, thank you so much. I. We will put

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details in the show notes of your email, which is info

10 00:19:20

wealth people, if they contact you, should

10 00:19:23

mention the podcast maybe in the subject line if they

10 00:19:27

want to arrange a free call. Thank you very much for offering that to our

10 00:19:30

listeners. And there is numerous ways to work with you. The first step is to

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reach out and of course, if they want to have a call, both from a

10 00:19:37

financial and a tax perspective, we can organize that. And ideally

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and possibly with the US advisor on the call as well, so we can cover

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off on us Irish tax issues in conjunction with yourself.

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I think that's a really solid value proposition for anybody who's listened to this

10 00:19:52

and is a bit worried. And of course there's plenty of info on your website

10 00:19:55

and our website as well. If people just want to DIY it, which we don't

10 00:19:58

recommend, but there is people who do that. Yeah, look, that. It goes back to

10 00:20:02

the piece that. And again, I've seen it and you've seen it,

10 00:20:06

where people have come and taken the initial advice that they've got

10 00:20:10

and believe that they could go off and save money on their own and do

10 00:20:13

it on their own, you'll generally find that they've created a mini mess and they'll

10 00:20:17

come back to you and it'll actually cost them more than if they'd come the

10 00:20:19

first time. So look, I go back to my point of earlier. There are very

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few people that know what they're doing. 90% of US

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tax advisors, 90% of Irish tax advisors do not understand the cross

10 00:20:31

border nature of what needs to be done.

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What Stephanie has been able to create, I guess from a

10 00:20:38

tax perspective for my clients, and I assume her own clients,

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is she has been able to find

10 00:20:44

advisors, U.S. tax advisors, that understand the

10 00:20:48

connection between the two. And that's the key to it. You can go to the

10 00:20:51

best US Tax advisor there is out there and get them to do

10 00:20:55

your taxes. If he does not understand how the treaty works or

10 00:20:59

what the issues are that he needs to look at from an Irish

10 00:21:02

perspective, it's a waste of time. As is

10 00:21:06

also the top US Tax advisor and the top Irish

10 00:21:09

tax advisor if they don't, if they work together but don't

10 00:21:13

understand the mechanics of the treaty. It's exactly

10 00:21:17

the same thing. Yeah, I've been doing this for four years. A lot of my

10 00:21:20

four years has gone about trying to find the right

10 00:21:24

people because I don't want to work with the wrong people. I can

10 00:21:27

absolutely say that Stephanie is without question the best person that

10 00:21:31

I've met in this area. Thank you.

10 00:21:36

You're very kind. Absolutely. It's a fact and I think that's

10 00:21:40

important. And I think that's borne out by the fact that I do trust you.

10 00:21:43

It has changed my practice by working with you. You're very good.

10 00:21:47

Thank you. And absolutely I would recommend, you know, for me,

10 00:21:50

likewise.

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Now it's like we're becoming, we're not Irish anymore. Irish people don't

10 00:21:58

do this. That's the Americanism coming out. It's a pity

10 00:22:02

we're not on Instagram now. We can get people to comment what they think of

10 00:22:04

us below. But no, it's, you know, for

10 00:22:08

me, I do care about people. I do care about clients. For

10 00:22:12

me, get advice, get it somewhere. I don't care whether it's me because

10 00:22:16

the reality is, and I think, Steph, you're probably the same, I have enough clients.

10 00:22:20

There's more than enough clients out there. I will never be able to service everyone

10 00:22:23

that needs this service. And I don't think you will be there. From a time

10 00:22:26

perspective, I don't think there is a huge option out there at the minute. I

10 00:22:29

would love to see more advisors in this area. As I said,

10 00:22:33

you know, I had no root map to follow.

10 00:22:37

If anyone wants to ring me up and ask, how do you get into the

10 00:22:40

US I'm not going to tell you because you can go through four years the

10 00:22:43

hell that I went through. That's true. Absolutely. That said, everyone has

10 00:22:47

a price. But yeah, no, absolutely. Go out there and get

10 00:22:50

advice. You know, contact me, contact Steph. We do work closely

10 00:22:54

together from that perspective and we will certainly

10 00:22:58

look after you. Thank you so much. It's a great start to the weekend

10 00:23:02

to have recorded the podcast. You're starting your day. I hope you go off and

10 00:23:06

buy yourself a $7 coffee. I'm going to go and make myself one of my

10 00:23:09

one Euro cups that I. Your one Euro

10 00:23:12

cup probably tastes a lot better than mine.

10 00:23:16

Well, I did see what you were drinking there, the cup, and I can tell

10 00:23:19

you it tastes better than what you're drinking. But I'm a bit of a. No

10 00:23:21

idea what's in that cup. That's actually green tea. That's a Venti. You couldn't,

10 00:23:25

you couldn't possibly afford a Venti coffee over here. No chance. You've changed.

10 00:23:29

You've changed, Sean. You can't. If you tell anyone in Castle knock, you drink green

10 00:23:32

tea. They always drank green tea because I

10 00:23:36

couldn't afford milk. It's a lot easier, better free. It's no more than you. Your

10 00:23:40

one euro coffee. It's. It's free world. So it's. It's

10 00:23:44

okay. I'm going to go put my coffee machine on. Have a brilliant weekend.

10 00:23:48

You too. Take care. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye

10 00:23:51

bye. Thanks for listening to

10 00:23:55

Tax Bites for Expats. Please do leave a rating or review

10 00:23:59

wherever you listen to your podcast. And as always, remember to

10 00:24:02

take professional tax advice specific to your personal

10 00:24:06

circumstances before acting or refraining from action in

10 00:24:09

connection with the matters dealt with in this series. The material in

10 00:24:13

this podcast is an intended to give general guidance only.