Before this episode starts, I want to give a quick warning that sexual assault and eating disorders are mentioned. They are not discussed in detail, but they are mentioned.

My main duty in my life right now is just to freaking enjoy it because so much of my life is. a result of suffering. And I know my therapist, she tries to get me to see the good parts, but I'm like, sis, I know. But the painful parts were painful. They were tremendously painful and impactful.

And they lasted for so long. They did. Like part of your pain wasn't just A sexual assault. And I don't say just to belittle that. That's major. And so I'm sorry that was your experience. But it's like that experience continued so much longer because you watched your mom choose him.

A hundred percent. Even after my, like, when my brain was undeveloped, when my brain was fully developed. I wrote in my book that if I had something about if I hadn't had my partner, I would have died and my mother would have still been married to him. Yeah. My part, like the safety of my relationship kept me alive. It allowed me to go through my own healing. It allowed me to have a safe place to heal.

You are listening to the Reconnection Rescue Podcast for mothers and daughters with your host, Brittany Scott. A podcast where we process all things mother daughter relationships and the direct effect it has on the relationships we hold as adults. Welcome back. It's your host, Brittany. This episode is an interview and I have invited Diamond Williamson to join us and share her story with her mother daughter relationship. Diamond is head creative at Deep Fillers Club, a creative arts company specializing in publishing art and gathering community. Previously, she led Third and Wonder Production House, a video production company with notable clientele like the Oprah Winfrey Network. Google, Warner Bros, Essence, and more. Most recently, Diamond published her second book, Deeply Personal, Notes from Facing My Mother Wound. I am so excited to have her here because I think her story is relatable to many of you out there and I hope it brings some peace. Maybe peace or helps you to feel seen and not alone and knowing that going no contact with your mom is sometimes The only option for you to live a life that feels safe and joyful So without further ado, let's bring diamond in and get the interview started Okay, guys, we are here with Diamond. I am so excited that she is willing to share her story with me and with you, and I'm ready to dive into it. Same. Thank you for having me. Thank you for doing this. Yeah, this is, I think this series is going to be great. Me too. I think it's important.

I think it's important. Yeah. Yeah.

A lot of women feel alone or they feel scared to share or scared to talk about what they went through. And I want to change that and break the silence for a lot of people and give them a place to feel seen and heard. Absolutely. I'm going to start off with the big question in my head. What is the event or the event? the experience that you had that made you decide to be estranged or go no contact?

So the things that have taken place for my mother and I occurred as a child and because my mother avoided them and I was young, like I just remained in relationship with her. And but once I got older and went to college, I moved away from her. And so we were able to maintain a relationship, very surface, but it worked. Once I moved closer to her, to the same state and to a nearby city, My inner child was like, Oh, sis, I don't like her. You like her. I don't like her. And my inner child was like yelling and screaming and like brain forcing all the memories of what my mother had done was bringing, they were coming to the forefront of my mind. So I couldn't even function. I couldn't be around my mom. And it was something at that point, it was something to face. And so. When I decided to, um, talk to my mom more about the things that had happened as a child and also tell my aunt what had happened, I realized, oh, these are, this is not a safe place for the per, this is not a safe place for my inner child. My mother is not a safe place for my inner child, neither is my aunt. And so I had to distance myself from. My aunt and my mom, late last year because I was like, I got to deal with this. And unfortunately I cannot deal with this and be there for my inner child while being in relationship with my mother.

Yeah. Okay. So your adult self

was like, we're good. My adult self was like, we're okay. Like we get it. Like she, your mother had her own things. Like my adult self had a little bit more grace, but my inner child was like, no ma'am, no. It's like my inner child just had so much to say because she couldn't say things as a child. So I knew at this point that my duty was to listen to her. Right. What was she saying? Oh man. She was so angry. She was so angry. I think for the first time in my life I had to really allow. her to be angry in a productive way. A lot of my anger comes out, unfortunately, in my relationship or it comes out in my, it would come out to my mother in this lashing out form. But I was like, oh, she, there's anger here and let me be productive about it. And so she was just like super angry, super mad. Like she was very sad. I had not experienced as much sadness. as I had late last year and even this year as I've gone no contact with my mother.

Okay. So going no contact helped to decrease those big emotions?

No, I think it actually, I think it made them bigger in a way. Either, either they made them bigger or it was just the fact that I was now giving them space, right? Cause like, I probably, I had suppressed them for so long. And so I think it made them bigger. And because I didn't have my mother to call, um, I had to deal with it myself. So that made them feel probably heavier than they were. Because usually I can just lean on my mom. Okay, girl. Mom, hey, this is going on. Hey, mom, I'm feeling this way. Now I can't call her. So I'm having to deal with it. I have a partner. I'm in a relationship. But it's just different not having my mother.

Okay, I'm following. So. Going no contact made those emotions even bigger because now you're stuck in them by yourself.

Imagine, I'm about to say, if I never deal, I never dealt with them, right, so I never dealt with the emotions and now I'm dealing with them and I don't have my mother, it was like, Fireworks. It was a lot.

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to bet, and so you can go down this path, in the story, when you started to tell her and tell your aunt, they either denied, told you you were wrong for feeling this way, or told you to get over it.

They understood. But. Okay. They wanted to move forward faster than I could. I can't pretend. I'm not, we're not going to be just having family events. You're not just going to be asking me how I'm doing and we're going to go on a walk and talk about my dogs. No, I'm not doing that. And so they wanted to pretend and I couldn't pretend. Like they wanted to, okay, yes, we've talked about this, but now Can we hang out and have a game night and not talk about it? No, because I don't look at you the same anymore.

Yeah. Okay. So they were ready to just, Oh, she said it. Cool. Let's move past it. All is well again.

Yeah. They

couldn't handle my emotions

at all.

They couldn't,

they, like, what I know about my mother and subsequently about my aunt is they don't know sadness. They don't know what it's like to be sad. They don't know what it's like to have anger and be productive about it. Like, they look at sadness as, Oh my God, I want you to be happy. They want to protect me from these emotions. But for my mother specifically, you're the reason for them. And so, no, you don't get to, you don't. No, ma'am. No, ma'am. No, ma'am.

Yeah. So what did you need? What would have made that better?

Honestly, nothing from them. It's just the truth. I think, and I think it's because my mother is the source. So there's nothing she could have done. What she would have had to do would have had to have been 25 years ago. So there was no chance for her. For my aunt, I think for my aunt, I wish she could have, I wish she could have, because for her, I would tell her how I feel. Because we, me and my aunt, we would talk, but eventually she would say, Oh, I wish I could take the pain away. And that was it. And it says, I need you to see, That it's deeper than pain. I need you to see sadness, anger, disappointment, disgust. I need you to see other things. My aunt couldn't see that. And what I learned is that for my aunt, her default is to protect my mother. Her default is not to protect me. So I don't even have a teammate in her. So you got to go to, I need people on my team. I need people at this stage of my life. And my aunt was not that for me at all. She wanted to be, but she just, she didn't know how. And it was obvious.

Yeah, yeah. And she's, she chose to protect her sister. Her whole life. That is, that's her sister. And maybe she wanted to protect you too, but she didn't know how to do the two part. There was no way to, to have both.

Absolutely. I agree. Cause I think, I love my aunt. She has a very kind heart. I think she has a kind heart, but I think they just, they haven't experienced their own depth. So they don't know how to meet me at mine. And so that's where it is. Her and my mom, they can meet each other cause here. Right. I'm dealing with things down here. And so, yeah, you're right. She couldn't do the two part at all.

Yeah. So what happened 25 years ago? Oh,

now that I can't share here, but I mean, I can say it. I was sexually abused by my mother's husband and my mom stayed. So it was terrible. I write about it in my book because I had never shared that truth with anyone. So for my partner, maybe a few friends, but I was, I had, um, buried those thoughts and memories so deep, but once I got around my mom, my inner child was like, Oh, sis. No, ma'am. No, I don't mess with her at all. So absolutely. Absolutely. I don't even know that I knew that I wasn't safe with her until late last year when I decided when my inner child, like, She was like, sis, no, like I was having it was such a physical experience that I couldn't deny it anymore. I couldn't just oh, yeah. No, don't think about it. It was too physical. It was too physical.

Yeah. What was your body doing? What was the response like?

The anxiety was crazy. It's actually so hard to describe because I actually don't even know if I remember it in detail, but I do know that it was overwhelming. It was overwhelming. And I think also the memories, the way they would flood. My, my mind were overwhelming too. I wanted to cut them out of my brain, but I couldn't. So I had to deal with them and that was overwhelming.

Yeah. When I'm working with clients, I, um, sometimes I'm the first to tell them this. Sometimes I'm not sometimes like it's just a reminder. Um, but I let them know that our bodies often know something is happening well before our brain catches up. So I wonder if your body had felt that way around your mom before, like, your inner child started screaming, like, words at you, like, no, I'm angry. No, I don't feel good around her. I wonder if your body had already been responding that way before you. Fully recognized.

I think that's really possible. And I wouldn't know, I would not have known because we lived distant from each other. So I lived in Georgia, she lives in Texas. And so we lived far away from each other for 14 years. It's been like, as I became an adult, we lived far away. So it wasn't until I saw her frequently where my, my inner child was like, girl, what is this? What are you doing? Yeah.

So it was almost as if you were okay with the distance, like you could talk to her on the phone. It was great. It was great.

But at 34, I was like, let's give this a try. I love my mom. I want to live near her. Let me try this. And yeah, like my 30 year old version appreciated the community. And the fact that my mom was like, she was trying to be so helpful and just trying to be there. But my inner child was like, no, ma'am. There's a reason we've stayed. And

they're still married today? Mm mm, they're not married today. They're not, okay. But she stayed with him for much longer after knowing. Yeah, about 20 something, 20 years.

20 years. It is tragic. It's tragic, and I think what breaks my heart today and I often ask myself what can you do with regret anyway, but it's just what type of life I would have if I wasn't, if that wasn't my experience. It's, but I, there's nothing I can do with it, right? There's nothing, but it's sometimes it's hard when I see, um, And I don't know their story, right? But still, to even see, loving Today, my best friend is a great mother. She might not think that. She has her times, but she's a great mother. The way she loves and she attends to her children and protects them, that is, it makes me cry. Sometimes for my inner child, my inner child cries because it's, man, what would that have been like? And I'm thankful because I get a chance to like, I'm the mother now. I get to be the mother. But still, how do you mother when you weren't mothered? It's very, it's, it makes me weep. It makes me emotional.

Yeah.

How do you mother when you weren't mothered? I had to, I had to define love for myself. And I think that helped because I was like, okay, what does love mean? I had to define it for myself. I also had to define it so that I could tell my partner what I needed and knowing that like love is accepting and it's kind and it's gentle and it's attentive and it's inquisitive, it's curious, it's present, being able to define that helped me so much because at this point, that's all I can do, right? Like I'm not. It's not the mothering where it's like, Oh, let me teach you how to brush your hair. Let me teach you how to brush your teeth. Let me teach you like how to tie your shoes and teach you math. It's not that type of mothering. It's different. And so I have to, Love on my girl. And so defining love and being that has been very helpful to me. How is that healing you? Oh, in so many ways. I think it's freeing me. Like I've through this, I think last year, cause I've been in television production for 13 years and last year things were happening and I was just like, ah, this isn't for me, but this year I was like, This is not for me. And I started to lean in naturally to, to writing and to illustrating. And as a way to heal, first and foremost, as a way to heal, writing became a way to heal, but illustration came right after very naturally. And I think that like really defining my, or really like living a life that's like. something that I choose is very, it's been amazing for me. Like, what is, what do I want? Nobody asked me that until like, I got in therapy. Nobody was like, what do you want? And that changed, that changed. Having that as a framework or as a thought. um, really helped me out so much. I don't even know. I feel like I went on a tangent, but that's my that's my that's

okay. You answered that well. So I love the the follow through of that because you weren't saying like mothering as in just Taking a child from a baby to an adult and making sure they remain alive.

Yeah.

You meant the loving aspect, the caring aspect, the emotional support. That is the part of mothering that is now like working through you and helping you to heal and where you had to. Yeah. You had to intentionally work on like showing up fully.

Absolutely. And that is, that, that is the work of staying alive, too, right? Is like making sure my mind, my body, and my heart are well enough to exist because I, I am a, I ended up having an eating disorder. I ended up having an addiction. That's how I even got into therapy. Like I had it off and on 10 years I was bulimic. So it was, it was, it was a lot. seven years ago that I, well, it was 27 years ago that I got into therapy, six and a half years ago that I started recovery on my own without my mother. So it's, there's just so many things that I've had to do without her. So I always, sometimes that's tough though. Cause sometimes I'm like, man, I feel like I've, cause I'm an only child. We moved around. So it's like, I was separated from my family. I didn't have parents. I had an abuser as a parent. I had a, an avoidant mother who. It's crazy. So it was just like, so much of my life has felt like just very difficult, very hard. And loving myself through this is like a real job. It is a real freaking job and it feels very isolating sometimes, especially just doing it without. Without family, without people you feel like you can really trust.

Yeah. Y'all gonna

say that upbringing sounds lonely. It was so lonely. And I think that I often feel that way today. I, I love my friends. I'm so thankful for them, but I am not a person who's gonna call and be like, Hey, I'm really sad right now. I learned how to deal with things in isolation. It's something that I'm learning, but it's not immediately a habit. Hey, I'm feeling really sad right now. Can I just be with you? Or can you just be with me? I do that for myself a lot, but it is lonely. It's very What was behind that? Um, I just wish I didn't have such a lonely existence for most of my life. It just would have been nice to, because not only did I not experience love within my home, I didn't have a place to go to experience it either. I didn't, I wasn't, I didn't live near my grandmother after 10. I didn't live near my aunt. I didn't live near people that Knew me as a kid, and that's been for most of my life, had to find love and community and people that didn't know me. And so I just, I don't know, it's just been very lonely.

Yeah.

It's been

very lonely. And that makes, so when you said like, earlier going back home or moving back closer to your mom, you were excited.

I was so excited. Yeah, you were gonna get some family back. Yeah, it felt divine, like, that we could afford to move there. Cause, you know, that there was an apartment available in a city that my mom liked and knew and that she could just run over and be like, Hey, this apartment looks great. It felt divine. And I'm clear, right? Like, I'm clear now in hindsight that it was what I had to do to, like, I feel freer. But it doesn't mean that I don't feel like lonely and sad and stuff like that.

Yeah. Yeah. That's hard. Yeah. But, um, yeah. Do you want or desire to be the person that calls your friends and say, Hey, I'm struggling. Hey, I'm sad. Hey, I just need to be around you. Yeah, for sure. And I,

yeah, I do. I would love for it to be both sides. I'd love for it to be, like, also. Also. Cause I have, they definitely have friends that check in. It's just, it's tough when you live far from your friends, but, hey, I want to come over. Hey, I want to, you want to watch this show together. Yeah.

Yeah. How do you let, how do you let yourself use your friends in that way?

It's definitely going to take effort. I think being in survival mode, like with work and stuff like that, it makes it tough because I'm trying to survive. I think I'm doing an okay job, like even if I'm not calling them because I'm sad, I'm still putting in effort in my friendships. Hey, I want to come see you. I have godchildren that I love so much that I want to make sure that they know that I care about them. So I try to like, make sure I go see them. I try to show up for my friends, but also I'm honest with them. Hey y'all, like I just moved back to Georgia. I'm trying to adjust to a new life here without my mother. I'm grieving. Um, I'm in survival mode. And so I try to tell them too in there and they understand.

Yeah. Okay. So is there any desire left or reconciliation with your mom? Or is that part, her being a part of your life done forever?

I think it's the middle. I don't have a desire for reconciliation right now, but I do hope that one day we could have something. I don't know what it'll be. I don't know what it will be, but I know I think it will take a tremendous amount of time because the trust was broken a long time ago, but I'm just now dealing with that fact. And so I don't, I can't be around her. I don't trust her. I don't trust her. I just, I don't trust her. Yeah, I'm okay with the fact that I have to grieve over her. I'm okay with the fact that I have to miss her. I'm okay with the fact that like I'm lonely without her. I'm okay with that because I'd much rather try to figure it out without her than go back to what I knew. It wasn't healthy for me at all.

Right. Yeah. And it also wasn't safe for your inner child.

It wasn't. Like, I'm so, it's weird. It's so weird because I've been in production, like I said, for 13 years. My mom was a part of all the moments. I made a documentary about friendship breakups. She knew about it. I showed it to her. Like, she knew everything about my art, my work, everything. I called her about everything. And now that I'm a writer and I'm an illustrator and I'm writing about her, I'm illustrating about my feelings, I'm writing, like she is not a part of that. in my life. And that's weird. It's weird because I would tell her everything. Oh my God, I got my first illustration gig. Like all of that. And it wasn't, she, it wasn't safe for my inner child. And this part of my life is safe. Um, without her, my inner child gets to be free and express and be honest about her feelings. That is, it's such a, oh, that's such a, I love being honest about my feelings. I love it. It makes me a great writer and a great illustrator.

Yeah. And you get to take care of her. You don't have to put her in places that make her afraid again.

Absolutely. I actually enjoy mothering her because it's like, oh, you're, oh, you're angry. What's going on? What's going on? We need to go in the room. We need to lay on the bed. We need our lavender. Let's do it. Now. That's something we're learning though, how to be productive, our anger and communicate, but Oh, you need to take a walk. Let's go do it. Like it's we're becoming as a one. And I really appreciate that. Cause I feel like we've had to live separate. Like I had to cut her off and grow up keeping her quiet. And now I feel like we talk to each other and it's really beautiful. It's really beautiful.

Yeah. Yeah, you are getting to heal her, but also, you're also healing the adult you, not just the child you.

I would agree. I would agree because I know there there's a lot of versions of myself as an adult that sometimes I'm like, oh my god, what did we do? But it's like learning how to have, um, learning how to have grace, acceptance, acceptance is a huge part of this journey, I feel like, but absolutely, that's, I think that's the gift when I'm struggling sometimes and I'm like, Oh my god, what am I doing? It's, um That's something that I can be thankful for is that I have a well mind and that I'm attentive to my body and that I can hear my body. I love that I can hear my body. I love it so much. Oh girl, you something's going on. That food wasn't right. We got to get it. We got to figure it out. We got to take it. It's really, it's something to be thankful for.

Yeah. Okay. So how has your partner played any kind of role in this, either in your healing or not?

Yeah. Oh man. When I talk about her, I love her so much. It is who she is that gave me a safe place to be myself. Like she, it's just her person. It's just, she's this kind person that comes from a big family. That's an oldest child. So there's something about her that's just naturally caring and attentive. It's just her. She's so genuine. And she's like the, she, she was the kid that was like. very observant. So she knew, nah, I can't mess with this person. So she knows, like, she has discernment, great discernment. So from, for her, I feel very thankful that I'm in her life. She saw something in me that I didn't see in myself. And she saw something in me that I, or she wanted to care about me in a way that I didn't feel like I deserved. I'm like, this person? No. And so she was just there and she's been there. She's just been there. And I appreciate that. I was always ready to run. And she was like, no ma'am, no ma'am. And not that she was forcing me to stay, but work through the, um, the angry thoughts and all the wild thoughts and like all this, like fight or flight. When I can work through that, I would realize, oh, this is okay. We're okay. We're okay. But she. just saw me through all of it. She was with me before I was, when I had an eating disorder, when I was recovering, which was very difficult. And now through this moment with my mother, she's just been there and she's just such a, she's such a good heart. I, it's her good heart that has helped me so much.

That's amazing. Yeah. I'm

very thankful for her. I remember she's just, I just love her so much. She, I remember just being so angry last year, or earlier this year, and she's, do you need a pillow? Come on, get in here, get, hit the pillow. And it's, this is new for her too, being able to support me in my anger. As new as it is for me, it's new for her, but she knew it's what I needed and it was there and it was like, it was amazing. It was like really amazing.

Yeah, helping you find an outlet for your anger, get all that energy

out. And I appreciate it. I think that, um, I just feel she was definitely what I needed. I didn't know what I needed. We've been together nine years, so I'm 35, but we got together when I was 26. At 26, I'm like, I don't know what I need. I'm just, you know, You call me back, you're attentive, you're consistent. But I'm just so thankful that we could grow together through these hard times.

I hear stories of a lot of partners, male or female, basically trying to get the other person to reconcile with their mom or that is your mom. Call her back. You guys should have a relationship. Like really trying to help the other person get back into relationship with their mom.

That is not,

that's not

my experience. No, and I'm glad about that. Like, I think she, she would more ask questions. Like, hey, do you want to call her? Like, when I would be struggling, she's like, do you want to call her? I'm like, no, that's not gonna help. Like, calling her is not going to help. And so we could just be honest about it. She really, understood. And I think it was a rock and a hard place for her, you know what I'm saying? But I also think she knows the truth. And she knew the truth a long time ago, and I think she understands like why I would not want to talk to her. So there was no, there's a, yeah, like it still makes her sad though, that I'm sad and I don't have family really. That makes her sad, but she knows that like it's a no for me. It's a hundred percent a no for me.

Yeah. Okay. So she remained curious instead of thinking she knew best.

Yeah. And because no, ma'am, you don't. Mm mm. And I would tell her that too. No. But I think she understood that. I told her we had only been together two months and I told her what happened to me. I was just so distraught. And so she's known all this time the truth. And so I think she understood. And, and, and what she tells me now is that there were times when like, I would talk to my mom and she just would say something I didn't like, or she just would say something that was just like, do you have a heart? Like, she would just say things and I'll be like, man, I wish I could, I wish I didn't have to talk to her anymore. I wish I could just, so there was times that I would plant the seed. And so she was like, I, she's like, there were times when you would say these things. And so she, I guess she used that as a frame of reference too, that like, this is serious.

Yeah. Okay. You trusted her from the beginning to tell her something that big two months in.

Yeah. You know what? I think the truth is we dated years ago, like college. So I knew her. Um, my best friend dated her sister. So I think there was a level of comfort there, but I also think, so for us, the beginning of our relationship in 20 real art. relationship now in 2015, we were long distance. So we, all we had was the phone. All we had was to talk to each other. And so that made us very close. That made us very close. And I think the only reason I told her is because I was at some point I was suffering so bad. I was completely distraught. Alone. It was in a dark place. I just told her. I definitely trusted her though. I did trust her. I don't know why. I don't know what made me tell her that. But I told her and I worked hard. But I did.

Something about her.

Yeah, she's

a Libra. She's great. You said she saw something in you, but sounds like you also saw something in her or felt something safe in her.

You know what? I think it's felt, right? It's definitely felt. And I think it's because, like how much we talked and how much I looked forward to talking to her. And I'm also 26. This is so new for me. I'm like 26 at the time. I'm like, Oh my God, somebody I can talk to. It's new. You know what I mean? And so I think, yeah. I definitely felt something with her.

Yeah. Okay. Earlier you said that you didn't know what you needed. Do you know what you need today?

Yeah, I do. I do. Time. I need time. And so there's so many things that I write. Like I'm like, I asked my friends now, some of them like, Hey, are you okay? If I just sometimes call you on the day of. to see if you're available. And they're like, yeah, sometimes that works. Sometimes that doesn't, because I know that in this season, it's hard for me to commit to things because I don't know if on Wednesday, I'm going to be completely distraught or something's going to happen, and I don't really want to have to cancel plans. I don't, I just rather go with the flow. So I know that I need time and space and flexibility. I know that I need walks. Ooh. I need my walks. I know that I need, like, time to write in the morning, time to draw in the morning. I know that I need help with my, with the way I communicate when I'm angry. I know I need that. Um, I know that I need loving and caring people in my life and gentle people. I used to have friends who were just always making jokes, always worried about what I got on. Very mean, and it's, I need gentle. I need soft, loving, kind, tender. So I do think I, I do think I know what I need now. And it changes day to day, moment to moment, but I'm so thankful for the time and space to be able to flow with that and give myself those things without judgment.

Yeah, I love that. There's a lot of women that can't answer that question.

Yeah, I'm so thankful that I know because it is a gift and it has given my life so much more meaning because it's like, Oh, I can really hear what I want and what I need versus what I think I should want, what I think I should need. And I can, I have accepted that what I want is different than what I think. that I had always wanted. I had always wanted this big career in television and all of that. I'd always wanted this really big house. I don't care about that. I want a yard. I want three dogs. I want joy. I want peace. I want ease. Like I chase feelings more than I chase anything else. And I loved, I actually love that about myself. I do. Yeah. I take pride in that, honestly.

It's more about you and your desires for your life and not about what you, we, you think that like, these heights we're supposed to reach.

Yeah. What I should want, what is it, what could be expected of me and what, what we could generally define as a good life. What we could generally define as a successful life. I don't even use that word. Honestly, personally, I don't even use the word successful. Um, my therapist will be like, yeah, you can redefine it for yourself, sis. No, I'm just not going to use it. Cause I feel like it's very weighted in external things. And I'm not even, I'm not interested in that. I'm not interested in that. Yeah, you

don't want to

redefine the word. You just don't want to use it. I'll pass. It's so Heavy, heavily saturated with an external Like it's externally aligned with just things outside of myself and I don't even have any interest in redefining it I'll just use different words

Okay, so i'm curious not necessarily for Myself, but for listeners who may find themselves Resonating with your story. What was the conversation like with your mom and your aunt, if they were both included, when you decided to go no contact, do you tell them what did that sound like? And for this is for, for women who have this desire, but don't even know what to say, or are scared to have this conversation.

So, I don't remember, because, so I stopped talking to them twice, and I don't remember the first time. I stopped talking to them last year, and I don't remember the conversation. I stopped talking to my mom last year, and then my aunt in February. And then, so I forgot what I said, I don't know if it was a text. I don't know. It might have been, I know it was a text from my aunt. She had just made me mad and I'm like, I just don't think this is like good for us. And then my mom, it might've been a phone call. Like we might've talked about it. But then after Mother's Day, I was so triggered. I was so in fear, infuriated this year. I was just so mad, but I was like, you know what? Let me try to talk to them. Let me tell them how I feel. Let me try to talk to them. And I talked to them. And I was like, Oh, I can't talk to them. I just can't. Cause that's when I realized again, that they were okay with pretending and I still wasn't okay. Cause I told them I had wrote a book. My mom didn't, my mom thought the book should just be between she and I. And I was like, no, that's the problem. That's the problem. That's how we got here. You want to keep it between you and I. And she didn't want the book out. And my aunt, at first, my aunt was like, yes, I think you should, because I feel that way about my mom. And, and it's, but then my aunt changed her mind and she was like, I agree with your mom. I was like, okay. And so then they both kept trying to just text me, like everything was okay. And I just was like, with my aunt, I remember being like, I cannot pretend with you anymore. I don't want you to keep asking me how I'm, or asking me about the surface level things in my life because I'm not going to tell you the truth because I don't trust you. And I want to be in relationship with people that I can be truthful with. And she said something fake. Oh my God, sending you love girl. Okay. So I don't talk to my aunt, but with my mom, I was just so angry with her at some point that I just was like, forget about me. Just forget about me. Don't worry about me. Done. Now she did text me on my birthday. I'm glad about it. Cause like, just show a little effort, but I said, thank you. And that's okay. We don't talk. I don't want to talk to her, but it was just very honest and blatant. Like, I think the truth is I, I think we're supposed to respect them, but I don't respect them. So I'm not going to be kind about it. I'm not going to say it in a respectful way. I'm going to be and communicate with you. And, and honestly, I don't, I can't be truthful with you. I can't be honest with you. And maybe that's not disrespectful, but it's just like talking to them in this way is like a different thing for me. But I just told the truth. And that was the most important thing to me. I don't, I don't want them in my life. I do not. Okay. I just don't want to be, I just don't want people in my life that I have to pretend with. I did that for 30 something years and I'm just not interested in that.

Yeah. Yeah. You want people you can trust, that you can feel safe with, you can express your emotions with and.

Especially when I think about choice, what's my choice? My choice is that I want to, I I'm choosing to be around people that could be honest, that I could be honest with, that I could be myself with. And I can't do that with y'all. So y'all got to go. And what's beautiful is that my life has opened up. My new people have come into my life. I have been able to tell more people the truth about me. I feel like that's building a deeper connection with folks because they know what's going on. And I like that, even though I'm shy and embarrassed, there's a little bit of shame about it, but still. Um, I feel free. I feel free more than anything.

Yeah, you said something that I think ruins a lot of relationships. And I think it's all too prevalent in the Black household. Secrets.

Yeah. Yeah. Secrets. I, so I, I was in my television career. I got to work with Iyanla, fix my, for on Iyanla fix my life. And that changed my life because I literally I'm working. on every episode. I know all the it's I'm seeing these people healing real time and I'm watching her process and all of that. And I remember her saying secrets keep you sick. And that's what was happening to me. I literally had an eating disorder. I had an eating disorder while I was working on one season of it. I came back and I didn't have an eating disorder. But on the first season, I remember confronting my mom and What happens? My mom just goes back and she's still with him and I'm suffering on set trying to be present for the folks that I'm serving, which I love so much. I love them. I loved what I did, but I was suffering like I was suffering and the seekers were keeping me sick. It was literally protecting my mother that was making me sick. It was terrible. And even I remember when, like last year, I told my mom, I'm like, Hey, you need to tell, I want you to tell my aunt what happened. I want you to tell her because I think it'll help us have a better relationship. And I think it'll help my aunt understand me better. My mom was like, I'll do it. Never did it. I had to do it. And it's for me to tell my aunt what happened and my mom. He called me like, your aunt told me what happened. Like, just no, like, get this lady away from me. I need to meet a lot of people that have, that are not avoided, that have emotions, that have feelings, that just, because, oh goodness, I can't, I, it's so, I can't even finish because I'm just so disturbed by, um, my mother's, my mother's behavior.

You had to protect her and her emotions, and she refused to do that for you. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Because at the very least, she could have left him. At

the least. At the least. I wrote that in my book. I was like, It's hard to have grace for my mother when she had thousands of days to pack her shit up and leave.

Yeah.

And she didn't. It just the, the things that taught me, the things that I, the, the people that I allowed in my life as a result, the, the relationships that I stayed in as a result. Like I literally had to fight to stay alive. I had to fight to stay alive 'cause I was just in such a destructive pattern in my life.

Yeah. And still no accountability. Barely any acknowledgement. Your aunt called and told me the story. Yeah, ma'am, you know the story. What do you mean?

Hello? And the other part about it, that I remember being very painful growing up, is like, my mom, she worked at colleges. So she would love those students. Oh my God, I gotta be there for those students. Meanwhile, you have a college student yourself. Who is suffering? Who is suffering? Who are you? And I remember just, I remember being heartbroken by that, but having to just, but not having to, but just by default sucking it up.

Yeah,

it was real rough. It was so rough, like really, truly my, my, my main duty in my life right now is just to freaking enjoy it. Because so much of my life is. A result of suffering. And I know my therapist, she tries to get me to see the good parts, but I'm like, sis, I know, but the painful parts were painful. They were tremendously painful and impactful.

And they lasted for so long.

They did.

Like, part of your pain wasn't just the sexual assault. And I don't say just to belittle that. That's major. And so I'm sorry that was your experience. But it's like that experience continued so much longer because you watched your mom choose him.

A hundred percent. Even after my, like, when my brain was undeveloped, when my brain was fully developed, I wrote in my book that If I had something about, if I hadn't had my partner, I would have died and my mother would have still been married to him. My part, like the safety of my relationship kept me alive. It allowed me to go through my own healing. It allowed me to have a safe place to heal. Yeah, it's, it's not even tragic, it's tragic. So I know that being here, being alive, writing, like sometimes I, I'm like, if, I wrote the other day, like my most vulnerable, the most vulnerable parts of me will never be enough for people sometimes, but it's, I have to be okay that it's enough for me because I know how hard it was for me to get here.

Yeah. And how much having no siblings sounds like not really close, didn't get to grow up close to extended family. All of this was really done alone.

Very much. It's like I'm having, I have there, it's like the person I'm supposed to have trust in, I don't trust. So when am I. What is trust? I don't even know. I'm out here in relationships and friendships with people I clearly don't trust, but I'm trying to force myself to trust them because that's what my mother taught me, is if you don't trust, when you don't trust your body, you don't trust your body, but you need to trust it anyway, because I said so. So I completely disconnected from what I knew trust to be, from my intuition, from my heart, and lived life separately from that. And it was just, it was very lonely. It was very, it was a lot terrible. There was some good parts of my life there was, but, you know. I could have done without a lot of it.

Yeah. Part of me feels like it's a little bit of toxic positivity.

It's ingrained. It's definitely in there. To be like, yes, oh my God, I have so much to be grateful for, but no, it was very difficult. It was very difficult. And I could have done the childhood that I had, the mother that I had. Yeah. You know. Yeah. I definitely think it's definitely toxic positivity. It's, I learned it's something I have to work on because I'm not, I think sometimes I'm not afraid to talk about it, honestly, I guess there's this part of me that just doesn't want anyone to think that it was all bad, but it was a lot bad at the end of the day.

Yeah.

It was.

And that's, I was going to say, and that's okay, but not okay. I bet. It was all bad, but okay that people can see that, people can hear that part of your story.

And I really am, I really am okay with that because honestly, at the day, like I, I don't want to be like my family. I don't want to be like, pretend that I'm always happy, always joyful. Everything is all good. I'm just fighting to get, I'm just like, you know, pushing through. I don't even like that language anymore. I want to be somebody who feels and I am somebody who feels. I'm somebody that deals with my emotions. I'm somebody who's aware of my feelings and that's the type of person I want to be. I don't want to hide it or hide from it.

That's what your mom has done.

Exactly. And I don't want to do that. Like, I'm not trying to be like that at all. And I think that there was always a part of me that didn't. And being away from her and going through therapy and like just living my own life helped me to get to that point. Because I don't know how it would have been had I stayed around her. Like always, I got moved away from her after college, like for college, like I just stayed away from her for so long. And I think that was, that was the best thing I could have done.

Yeah. Hindsight. Did you do that on purpose? Yes.

I don't know. I just knew that, so for high school, we lived in Georgia, but then I moved away my senior year because he was in the Navy. My mom's husband was in the Navy, so he moved away my senior year. So either way, I knew that I wanted to get back to Georgia, and then I just stayed from there because I liked Georgia. So I don't know that it was intentional, to be honest. I just, lived where I lived, she lived where she lived. Got it. Okay. Yeah. I don't know if it was intentional, though. But I know it was intentional to try to be around, to try to be around her again. That was intentional.

Yeah. Wow. I'm proud of you.

Thank you. Thank you. You're

welcome. I know I just heard your story, but truly recognizing, like, What your body is telling you the sirens and alarms that your inner child was sending off Being able to put words and a voice to what she's trying to say and then recognizing what you need in order to heal To be whole and to be happy today as an adult because you get to make that decision now There were so many decisions you didn't get to make as a child and to put you first and not her now as an adult I'm proud of you Thank you.

It means a lot. I, I definitely feel like I got a second chance at life for multiple reasons. One, I survived my eating disorder, but two, to get to make this, to have a life that I choose, it's feels good. It feels really good. And cause a lot of my choices were also, they, uh, they kind of were made on a perimeter of keeping my mom safe. Okay. Got to stay right here because your mom, got to make sure your mom is good and she's protected. Can't go this, can't be, go telling everybody the truth. But now that everybody, now that the truth is out, it feels really good to just be free.

Yeah.

Yeah. So thank you. Thank you. That, that, that means a lot.

You're welcome. Imagine creating boundaries to keep someone else safe. That's difficult. Exactly.

I ain't gotta do that no more. And I'm so glad about it. It ain't my job. I just gotta work. I just gotta protect me. Yes, your boundaries are your own. I couldn't, I couldn't even do that because I was trying to protect her. But now I can. Now I can. That's why I am not interested in reconciliation at all. I just need to do my job. And, and to be truthful, my mother is safest with the version of me that protected her anyway. And that ain't me. No more.

Yeah, that's

powerful. I'm okay with, I'm okay that it's not me because it was either her or me. Yeah. And you chose

yourself.

Finally. I love it. I love, I'm so proud of that. Like, I really am. Like, my partner already knows that when I cry right now because I miss her, she's, she knows that it's just part of it. Like, it's part of it. the process.

Yeah. Part of the grief of the stranger. Yep.

It's part of it. And it's, but I don't know if the loneliness will go away. I don't know if any, if I have to, like, I got on, like, I don't believe unfortunately that anything will just replace the void, but I'm excited to learn how to live with these feelings, like live in this truth and to create life with it.

Yeah, and I don't know. I think the same thing you don't know. I don't know either. I don't know if they're like that void will ever be filled because it's the void of a mother. It maybe there's a mother figure that will step into your life that can feel part of it, but the void of your own mom. Not sure. Yeah.

And I'm, I'm okay with that because I just, I'm just going to keep making choices in my life that I'm proud of that I want to make. And that's really it. That's really it.

Yeah. And surrounding yourself with people that you enjoy being in a relationship with, people that you trust, that love you, that you love and. That you get to be who you are today without hiding or shying or, like, keeping parts of you close. Exactly.

Like, that is, those are part of the choices that I make. Oh, okay. I'm not really feeling good around this person. Like, I remember I was having weekly calls with a friend and, They did something. We were new friends, but they did something. They said some things that I was like, okay, I don't have to have these calls anymore. I'm uncomfortable. I'm uncomfortable. And we ended them. And that was great. That was great.

Yeah. Recognizing what you need.

Exactly.

Is there anything that you want to leave the listeners with anything that you've learned on this journey that could maybe help someone else on this journey?

Truly like this, this journey has forced me to be present. And I don't even like the word force. Gently encouraged me, uh, to be present and I, it's very difficult to be present, but I'm thankful for that because it's like I can experience the wisdom of my body. I can know what I need. I can tend to my needs. I don't have to deny myself of what I need because I'm present. It's oh, Okay, like actually, and that's also, I'm not trying to like abide by these rules that I have for myself. Oh, I said on my calendar, I'm going to work from one to two, but actually, no, I need a walk. Let me go, let me get up and go walk. Oh, I said I would hang out with my friends or I was going to cook dinner tonight. Oh, but actually I need to rest on the couch and drink some water. This has, um, really encouraged me to be present and that has been a gift and it's been challenging, but it's been. a gift because I enjoy my life a lot more in this season by being present and like making choices that align with what I need and what I want in a moment.

Yeah, I love this season of your life. Thank you. I honestly

do too. It's drawing and illustrating gives me so much joy. Also like loving all my animals and being with my partner. This has actually made my relationship much better. Much. better. Like, I'm softer with myself, and so I'm softer with my partner. And, like, she appreciates that. It's really made my relationship much better.

And

I'm thankful for that, because that's, this is the one I trust. This is a relationship that I trust, that I love, that I need, that I want to pour into. So to be better for myself and into my relationship. I'm thankful for it. I'm so thankful for it.

I'm excited for both of y'all. This. Yeah.

Thank you for this. Thank you for this space. I didn't even know I needed to cry. I guess I did, but I'm glad I did. This was good.

Yeah. Thank you for being willing to share. No

problem.

Is your book Something that people will be able to read, or is it available

to read? Oh yeah, so my book is called Deeply Personal Notes from Facing My Mother Wounds. It is on Amazon. com, so you can grab it there.

Perfect, and I'll put all the information in the show notes for people to find and be able to go click. I appreciate that. You're welcome. If this story resonates with you guys, I hope you'll go read the book and dive more into her story in a personal way.

Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

You've made it to the end of the interview. Remember, the journey of the mother wound healing is personal and transformative and painful sometimes. Keep exploring, keep learning, and Remember that you have the power to heal and reclaim your authentic self, the person that you desire to be, and heal the inner child inside of you that may still be hurting. So until next time, stay curious about your story, keep growing, and I will catch you in the next one.