Electronic Walkabout. No one should have to walk through life alone. We share the good times, the bad times, and the best times. Everyone needs a little direction now and again. And TC and Mad Dog are here to show you the way. A podcast where we talk about the important things in life. Come journey with us. The Electronic Walkabout. Well, good afternoon, good evening, and good day. During this walkabout, we're going to talk about something that may or may not exist. This, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so is fear. Whether it exists or not, it still needs to be managed in a positive way. This episode, we talk about how fear plays a part in our lives and how it can be your friend or foe. Mad Dog, G Train, how are we doing?

Doing well. This, this episode sounds deep.

You always say. You always say that, though. Well, try, try to make it. But keep in mind, we talk about the important things in life.

That is true. That is true.

I. I feel like we're about to touch on some, like, real deep lessons here.

Oh, well, they're. That's is coming from you gentlemen, that's for sure. Right? But first, the thought of the day. Dealing with the elephant in the room is no different than dealing with any elephant. One bite at a time. No one likes to talk about that elephant in the room, do they?

No, no, you always wonder why it's there.

But yeah, one bite at a time. So fear the unknown. Why is it so scary?

Because you don't know it.

It's just that I think it's more the lack of control.

Lack of control. I never even thought about that. Tell me more about that.

So, like, fearing the unknown, like you're about to step off. Let's say you're at the edge of a cliff. You see water below. You obviously know, but what if. Let's, you know, theorize something new here. There's a whole new world beyond that water that you just can't see. Do you have control to get there? Do you think you're going to get there safe? It's the fear that keeps you on the edge of that cliff instead of jumping in.

There's that alien talk I suggested there.

You had that you had to bring the alien into the episode. That's okay.

Fear of the unknown.

Fear of the unknown. Yeah, Echo, pun. But it's, it's. It's crazy how that. That fear of the unknown gets in the way of literally everyday life. And, and what we want to really talk about is how we kind of deal with that, manage that. So it doesn't stop us from living, doesn't stop us from being successful. Doesn't stop us from basically having healthy relationships with people.

I think a lot of that comes with age and time on this planet because when you're younger, you don't have as many life experiences, so there's a lot more unknown. But as you get older, you go through things and then you can kind of relate certain situations. So it's not as challenging. There's still a fear there, but not. You don't think feel the same fear when you're 40 that you did when you were 20?

I mean, like I, I can understand that. Like I, I think I could. I, I think I can co sign on that one. For me, it's sort of like the kind of fear you're dealing with. Like, in what situation are you fearful? You know, are you talking about, you know, a whole career change or are we talking as something simple as maybe I should eat that last piece of pizza knowing that.

Why? It sounds really deep. You said it was going to be deep. I just got deep. Not ish, not deep.

But it's definitely like, you know, that last piece of pizza where you know your wife is upstairs and you know she wants that piece, but at the same time you're hungry as well.

That's why I order two separate pizzas. She gets hers taken there.

There you go. You're taking control. You're eliminating the fear altogether. Often, often I say that you have to be comfortable with being uncomfortable, which would include dealing with that fear of the unknown. And the more that you put yourself in that uncomfortable environment, really that fear of the unknown should be few and far between, at least in theory. Right.

So it's a skill that you kind of learn to navigate through situations. The more practice you have at it, the better that you'll end up being not knowing the situation. But if you, you know, trust your gut and your instincts and you've made it through a couple of, you know, scary situations that you might have been fearful. Okay, well I attended a couple times and we're gonna try it again and you know, hopefully with a good outcome.

Passing thought on that one. That's sort of like, you know, manage managing that aspect is, I guess for me it's difficult seeing that don't have many life experiences in the room in comparison.

Wow, we just got called old, I hear.

Well, yeah, I thought, I felt a bit of a dig there too. Yeah, so.

But much love because it's fair.

It's.

You guys have experiences that I hopefully can Learn from, you know, moving forward. But, you know, having, Having that fear is. Could also be like sort of your best friend because, you know, it protects you. It keeps you safe from making some of those ruinous decisions. Or as you said earlier, could be a hindrance.

It could be a hindrance. And I'll. And I'll tell you, spent 27 years in law enforcement and 27 years with a job. And one day I was jobless. My own choice. It was time for me to go, but I was moving forward in a, In a new environment, and I felt like I was starting all over again. And it worked.

It worked.

And it. And to somehow find your groove and learn to be successful and walk you through that, that door. The, the first day on the job, it wasn't an easy feeling. And getting back to that. No control. No, I. I had no control. I didn't have the confidence that I needed to be successful like I was before. But I wanted to get there, like, right away.

Sure, yeah. You don't want to stay in the uncomfortable and fearful zone. Not at all.

And when I say being comfortable, being uncomfortable, don't. You're right. Don't stay there. Take the steps to be comfortable again and then be uncomfortable. Take the steps to be comfortable and be uncomfortable.

Sort of like you're just getting acclimated to the whole new situation. Like you're learning your new role and you're planning on living there for a bit before you take your next step.

That's right. You and you, you gain that confidence. And each and every time you put yourself in that, that different environment, the, the better you can function in any environment. And that's, that's one of the reasons why you, you think about it for a second. If you, if you travel around the world, I think that that social development or that development of confidence, I think it's so much greater because those different cultures that all of a sudden you're immersed in, first of all, you feel uneasy. The different languages speak a word of one language that you land in it, but somehow you figure out how to communicate. Wasn't one. It's just. It's just unreal. Right? And I, I guess you could just from a positive way, look at them as opportunities.

Well, definitely, because now that sort of is maybe the fear of making a cultural mistake or offending someone. Right. Whereas, like, you don't want to come off as, you know, this person who doesn't really care about the landscape or area that you're in, when really you do care. You just, you know, Fearful of saying the wrong thing or, you know, the wrong action.

Good thing. We're programmed as Canadians to say sorry all the time.

Yeah, sorry about that.

Yeah. So, yeah, for me it was public speaking earlier on in my career. It was, it was mildly terrifying when you first start and you know, so we'd have a room of 10, 20, 30 people and that was nerve wracking. And, and then just by complete repetition and over and over and over you get more comfortable and, and then, you know, at the height of my, my last job, I was, I had to do a speech in front of 3, 500 people at the Toronto center for Performing Arts.

And it was horror of dance.

It was, it was a corporate thing and it was, you know, very, very large company, but it was, I thought I could speak to big groups and, and I just, I had to get in my head, it is, is no different than 20 people. There's just extra seats. That's really all it is. You're still talking to a group, you're still going to deliver the same message. But that, I was, I was extremely nervous going into that. But when I was done, like I thought, oh, I did okay. And then I watched on video, I was like, yeah, I did a pretty good job. And it just, you know, but I had the courage to. But you know, sometimes it does take a lot of repetition with certain things to overcome said fears.

Well, thanks for sharing how to manage that because that makes perfect sense and it's just, and it kind of brings me to that. Is the fear real or is it just something you've kind of put in your head?

Yeah, they say that the fear of death is worse than death itself.

Yeah, well, and like that you talk about getting up in front of people. They say, most people, if it's a eulogy, most people would want to be the person in the casket rather than the one given the eulogy. Right.

So definitely. Well, you, you saw 3,500 people in their underwear that night.

That's it. Yep, that was it. And yeah, it, but once you, I find once you start facing the fear, it turns from fear to confidence. Right. Because you've overcome it and it's like, no, okay, it wasn't, you know, to your point, it wasn't that bad of what I painted it to be in my head. And then that kind of helps you moving forward and encountering less fear in the same situation.

Let's put it this way. If, if I go through life and I, I don't manage that fear of the unknown, what does that do to my health from a stress point of view. Think about that for a second.

I think that just makes, I think that like compounds your fears and multitudes of them into different ways. Like, for me, my biggest fear every day is making a mistake. And not just like a little. Not just like your little oh, no, I spilled the milk type of mistake. I'm talking about, like, this could be my job type of m. This could be, you know, my life type of mistake. Like something where as simple as I've overspent a lot of company money and I can't get that back. That's a huge fear of something I.

Have, like, just causes you to be extra focused in what you do.

Exactly. So, like, I go back and like, I get into a mania sometimes of like double checking, triple checking my work, like playing ball. I always brought my equipment home whether they allowed me to or not, because I double checked all my helmets, made sure my face mask was secure. I'm checking stuff that I had no, no business touc. You know, that fear of forgetting something in the locker room or playing with a loose strap. Because now that's my job. Yeah, right. So now it's, I've taken control of that, but it's still the fear of, did I do that? Did I do that again? Should I do it a third time? Right.

So yeah, there's a little bit of OCD that's kicking in there too, G train. But for me, I just have intermittent ocd, so I'm, I'm quite happy with that. Right. Yeah.

So, but I think one of the things and I. This, this could blow up into a whole other topic is what scares me today is that you see a lot of parents over protecting their kids and, and constantly keeping, keeping them away and sheltered from stuff that they're scared of. So they, I, I think a lot don't ever get the chance to conquer that fear. And what, what's that, what's that going to, you know, how's that going to manifest itself later on in life with these poor kids?

I, I think we were talking the last time we're doing e walkabout. I think I said to. I wish Josh would just go make some more mistakes.

Yes.

Yeah, you think about that for a second. This is a parent talking. And is that uncomfortable because they're getting, getting back to the degree of the mistakes. But if it's just life mistakes, that's what you want to deal with. Right?

So, well, me being the non parent, I'm going to weigh in on parent decisions. Apparently I like the idea of allowing your kids to make those mistakes, you know, because then you get to see how they react and it's sort of like testing your parenting at the same time. Like, do they come out of this in a positive light? Oh, that's a. Put a star on my chart because I raised my kid properly. Or is it something where you start going, oh, that's not what I hope they would do. But you said you would hope that he'd go out and make more mistakes. Maybe you should encourage him to be maybe just a little bad. Just a little bad and see if he comes back to the good side. Just cuz. Right.

Oh, yeah. So you want him to be badass, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, maybe not badass, but definitely something along the lines of like, you know, allowing him to sort of learn the life lessons the easier way while he still has a support system.

Because you know, which ones would have a horrible impact. There's some that you can just sit back, go, it's going to hurt, but I'm going to watch and he's going to learn. Yeah.

And you sit there with popcorn and you, you know exactly what's going to happen. Right Where.

And of course, the, one of the important things is how you react as a parent. Because if, if you, if you see your son or daughter make those life mistakes, it's not a snap, I lose it kind of situation. It's. It's more or less sit back, they're going to look at you and if you have that, that look on your face that don't worry about it, it's all going to be good, then that gives them the, basically the, it shouldn't. The message that, yeah, they can make it through that mistake and on, on to the next chapter of life. Right.

So it's their character, short story. When we moved up to Promontory, it was on Friday nights they had like a tween night or a teen night. I can't remember what it was called. And I remember our son Maxwell. He walked by it one Friday night and he came home and he's like, next week I'm going. I was like, what? Like you're just gonna go up there on your own and stroll in there? He's like, yeah, I wanna go see what's all about.

Okay.

And sure enough, that next Friday he marched in there. And then he was a. For a good three years. Friday nights he went from just going up and showing and attending to helping out and you know. Oh, really? Oh, it was, it was really neat to See, but I remember talking with my wife. I'm like, I don't think I would have done that. Just marched in there and say, hey, how's it going?

What.

What are you guys doing here? Type thing.

So.

So it's little. Little things like that that are definitely, definitely.

That sounds like a situation I probably would have just walked past or driven past every. Just, you know, like the fear of, like, not necessarily meeting new people, but just sort of in a situation where, again, the lack of control that I would have in that. But then again, the only control I have is what. How I react when I do in that. So, yeah, definitely, your. Your boy decided. He decided to conquer a fear that day, and he did. And it might have been insignificant, but then again, that's a huge confidence boost, right?

And you see it as they get older. Like, you know, he was, I'd say 12 when that happened, but he's been through, you know, D.C. wildfire, and he's taught a couple classes with the. The city of Chilliwack, teaching their old veterans st about wildfire. So I remember he's like, dad, I am not cool with this because these guys are all like 40, 50 years old, and I'm trying to teach them. Like, I said. I said, maxwell, I get that part of it. I said, but how many forest fires do you think these guys have fought? And he's like, well, none. I said, it doesn't matter about your age. I said, it's your experience.

Yeah.

He was like. And then he went in there and he did it, and he said, yeah, there's a couple of curmudgeony guys that grilled him. But, you know, he stood up in front of them, and that just helped build his confidence to. To do the next one. And the next one.

Yeah. I remember when I was a young policeman, it was the same type of idea because the senior officers remember you're. You're the guy in charge when you. When you hit the scene. And yeah, when you're. When you. When you hit the scene, there's some people that are a little bit older, you probably have more life experience, but guess what? They expect something from you. And you gotta rise to the occasion, right? And that's a different kind of fear of the unknown. When you always have your first. Your first, your first, I'll say B and E, where you. You're afraid, getting back to making those mistakes, right? The different kind crimes that you kind.

Of kenny in in that line of wor. Like, every day you're almost facing a new fear I would imagine, yeah.

Oh, I could, absolutely, absolutely. And as time goes on, not that you get complacent or anything, but you get used to dealing with the, the different variety of you, you never know what you're gonna get kind of thing.

Here's a question for you, Mr. Moderator.

Oh, yes.

Earlier on in your career, what do you think that your top two biggest fears were scenario wise, when it came to your job?

Oh, okay. So one of the, one of the big fears, because back in the old days, if you were the new, let's say, officer in town, the tact was you would go to the biggest guy and, and you guys are laughing, but it's the truth. I heard it, I heard it the other day from a, from a retired policeman from Ontario. He was helping me out last week and I thought, I've heard that so, so many times. But it's the same thing. You have to somehow make sure that, that you set the tone, that you can handle yourself in that, that environment. So the fear would be, what if I can't? And how do I go about doing that? Because early on in my service, I was in a bar by myself, got involved with someone, got into a fight and I didn't fare so well with that fight. So the big concern was how do you overcome that? And the boss told one of the older guys, just, just make sure he's okay. Right. Well, the next, the next night shift, the weekend, where it's always crazy, I didn't hesitate, I just jumped in. I was the first one to jump into the fight. Right. So. And you just go from there. Right, so, yeah, so, but you realize that's, that's, it's, it's, it's the nature of the beast and you don't know how you're going to handle yourself until you're there. So that fear is there. And then you realize, okay, first of all, because of the way that first bite turned out and I got poked in the face, I said to myself, that's never happened.

Yeah, lesson learned, lesson learned.

Right? So, yeah, and I never did let it happen again. So it's a question of knowing when to be physical and when to use that verbal judo. And the verbal doodle is always the first step. Right. So. And then the other fear of the unknown would be court. You don't see that because that's, I'll say it's such a scary thing because if you've never done it before, and I always got nervous when I get in the witness box, but there's so Much at stake because you were talking about giving evidence, and depending on how you give that evidence, that could end up convicting someone, sending them to jail or whatever. But if you don't, then that'll kind of all your work kind of goes down the toilet kind of thing.

I never thought that court would be. But that makes complete sense.

Yeah, it makes total sense because, like, for, from like the outside view of it.

Yeah.

I always figured like, one of the biggest fears is, you know, not making it home that day. Like, you go out for your shift and everything's great and dandy, and unfortunately you get that one call and now your family has to deal with the pieces after the fact.

But, I mean, you see it happening more and more these days, but. And more so southwest in the US where that, that's more of a reality.

Ye.

That's happened a few times over my service where, where you look at those four officers that lost their lives in Marathorpe and it's, It's. It's not an easy, easy feeling to come to grips. And that reality that you could be the one too. Right.

So, yeah, it is hard. Like, I knew one where when I was back in school, we had a liaison officer, he was a constable with apd and he was like the greatest guy around. And then the one day the news is reporting on it and they say his name and I'm going, going, damn, that sucks. Like, that was a guy who I, you know, generally saw as my friend, you know, and that was, that was really hard.

So I would say that, you know, your line of work, firefighters, you know, first responders, that's a fear plays a much different.

Oh, yeah, it does. And it's. I think in, in, in that environment, that fear is healthy because it keeps you alive Very. Yeah, very. Keeps you alive.

Very.

Sorry, I'm. I'm just going to switch gears a bit.

Just, just for a little bit much attention on.

Oh, no, no, it's fine. But I, I just, I was thinking about it and there's a funny story that goes along with it. This whole fear of clowns, I don't get that.

I never understood that.

Well, okay, so we're all on the same page. I thought it was just me, so.

Love scary.

Like, I, I can see like, you know, if somebody's dressed up as a clown and they're like, you know, really creepy makeup. Yeah, that's like intending to look scary. That's one thing. Yeah, like, like that movie. It. Yeah, I really don't like that movie. I love that.

Well, that's kind of where I'm going with this. And the funny story is this because first of all, that clown's name is Pennywise. Pennywise, right. So. So one day we're out and the grandsons see a red balloon. And I've never, well, I've never watched it, but I have a sense of how, how it works. And so they're saying to me, well, that, that, that, that means that Pennywise is around. I said, okay, well, I got to learn more about this from my grandsons. Right? So, so, so let me, let me see how this works. So in the, in the complex, they have a, an open house every, every weekend. And there's a red balloon that's there, but it's not just a red balloon. There's a white balloon, sometimes a blue balloon. I said to them, so does it, the red balloon have to be by itself? And apparently it does.

It does. Yeah, it does. Singular.

Singular. Okay. So I thought to myself, okay, so they're. If they see the red balloon, I asked them, I said, what do you do? Well, if you see that red balloon, you run.

Think. Think. In self preservation.

No, that reservation. That's right.

Is on his decision.

So my thought was one day I might just kind of drop a red.

You or me.

Well, that's awful. Just really there just on their front of their garage. You heard that red balloon might be there.

We're just hanging one in your basement. You know, whether it be comes over, what is this, Grandpa?

Yeah, but you know, and I will sell out of respect because some people are actually do have that fear of clowns. But like, it's truly something that, that I can't relate to. But it's, it's a fear that some people would have to manage. And, and sometimes those fears, they, they actually stop you from living. And you have to get professional help to do that. And you can't be afraid to do that either.

And there could be legitimate reasons, like you were scarred as a child for some. Like there could be very, very plausible reasons why people would be scared of that. But yeah, that, that one puzzles y a hard one.

Like, it had to been like something traumatic that you went through as a very young child to then look at a clown. Like a bad McDonald's birthday or something like that.

But funny thing, in the second it. One of the, the young guys had a fear of clowns and they address that in the movie where he get, gets locked in and you know, eventually Pennywise shows up. But same thing, like he's a young guy, he Walks in, door shuts behind him and all is. And he's like. Like clowns. And he just loses his mind. But it's just. Yeah, I can't. I don't know where that comes from.

Well, okay, let's. Let's just talk about that. We do have that fear of the unknown. We don't know how to manage it. Where do we go? How do we manage? And I already mentioned professional help, but that's. That's not your go to right away. No, it's not.

No, no. That's one that takes a while to get to. I. I mean, easy, easiest way to manage it, like, from one perspective. I don't know, you jump, you. You lean into it and hope you've made the right choice when you go into it.

You know, just had an epiphany.

I think this is going to be the first epiphany as you walk about.

This is. Okay, Matt.

Yeah, I'll go for it. Right.

So in thinking of this specific fear of clowns, it could stem from something that you saw as a young child that terrified you, that you carried with you. Case in point, when I was a kid, that movie the Omen. Oh, yeah. So Damien. And when the first one. I think the first one was out late 70s, and one of the scenes that I caught as a young boy watching was the kid ended up underneath the ice, and then he was. He was floating underneath, like, crystal clear ice on a river. And you could see him. That is my fear. And it has been to this day. And it was that movie that started. And my whole family thinks it's hilarious. They're like, oh, dad, look. Ice snap. And it just. It weirs me out. But it was because I was probably six or seven when I saw that, and it terrified me to the core, and I carried it with me. So that could be what happens with the clowns and stuff.

Well, I mean, like, for that. For that one specifically. Like, unless, like, the clown is like, holding a hammer. Like they're coming with bad intentions. Being trapped under ice like that, that's a terrifying thing.

I'm halfway serious when I asked you this question. Mad Dog, do you ice skateboard?

I do, but I also know not on. I won't. On a canal or a river.

Oh, you won't?

Absolutely not. Nope. Nope. Or not even a lake, a hockey rink. I grew up playing hockey Till I was 19. Absolutely. But if I go onto an unknown body of water and there's ice on it and I can hear a crack, I'm out. I Am out.

So let me. Let me tell you a story and you tell me how you would react to this. So when I was up north, they have this river called the Mackenzie River.

I don't like where this story is. Ice cream.

It's a big river, right. It goes from, I don't know how many miles it is, say from one end of the territory to the other. And in the wintertime it freezes up. So if you can imagine you were on this river as it's frozen. And it's actually kind of cool too. It's kind of cool to be there, but the ice cracks and it's just like thunder when that ice cracks and there don't. It's safe.

Safe, yeah. Oh, I'm sure it is. It's safe that you're not going to convince me. It's like that show, Ice Road Truckers.

Exactly.

I watched one episode of that, and then when you hear the ice start snapping, instant I was done, that was it.

So you got on those ice roads and I never did drive them, but on those ice roads you got to be very careful because what happens if you drive too fast? It's no different than a wave. And then the same thing happens with the road too.

Yeah. So. Yeah, no, you won't catch me there.

Okay, good to know. Well, that's put that one in my back.

That is definitely smart thinking though. Like I. I can understand that one. That. That one freaks me out a little terrifying.

What is funk it, right? It's legit fear. Wow. Yeah. Okay, so speaking about legit fears, again, like, so you're gonna obviously reach out, say, but it's. It's hard to tell people, guess what? I've got this. I'll call it phobia. Because you're afraid that first of all, they're going to make fun of you.

Sure.

Oh, yeah.

And I haven't made fun of you just.

No, we do.

Right.

Yes, thank you. That said bad poto, but that's it yet.

Yeah, yeah, that's right. But who, who do you go to? You. You gotta. You. Because if it's stopping you from living life, you've gotta somehow deal with that.

I disagree.

You're okay with it there?

I am fine with it. I have a healthy respect for water because it is dangerous in general. But yeah, no, there's no need to ice skate on a. A thin sheet of ice over running water. There's no need for that. And that's not. If I can avoid that for my entire existence.

I'm happy, you know, Adding on to that, like I think that's like thinking about it now. There's some fears that I think are okay to have that sort of, you know, self dog side.

Nice.

Well I only to add on because like when I was a kid I watched a movie called eight Legged Freaks and ever since I've been terrified of spiders.

Fair.

I, I like, you know, there's always like the. Oh yeah, these are always non lethal. It's like, yeah, sure. But knowing my luck, I'm going to catch the one that is.

Yeah, yeah.

So, so and just ever since that like I've been terrified of spider.

I think that's a pretty common one, I would say. And nobody forces people to get over their fear of spiders. It just is a thing that's always with you.

Like they're not normal to me. Man. They are not normal to me. Is messed up. I agree.

I agree.

Well, here's that music again. And don't be afraid of the music. It's our friend. We'll just call it that word. But you know, the fear of the unknown may or may not be real, but it still needs to be managed. This can be challenging, but to overcome this challenge, think about this. Share your fear with someone who has experience with the same fear because they won't laugh at you and they'll be able to relate to you. Right. If it is an imagined fear, challenge yourself and determine the possible reasons for the fear. So again, we're saying that fear, the fear of that clown. We don't get it.

No, but somebody does.

Somebody does, right? Develop the habit of putting yourself in challenging situations and be comfortable with being uncomfortable. Stay healthy. And this is, this is interesting because that fear is going to cause stress on you. You need to be resilient While you're dealing with that fear, make attempts to overcome the fear. Whether you are successful or not, you will still begin to deal with that unknown. Baby step steps. Baby steps. Right? Assess the possible outcomes in dealing with your fear to lessen the mystery because it's no longer. If you start to deal with that, the unknown becomes a known. Right.

Right.

That simple. You're not convinced?

Oh, no. I'm. I'm deeply rooted in my fear and I'm not about to conquer it anytime soon.

So do you want to add anything before.

No.

I'll see you at the hockey rink and not. Not the lake.

Looks like we're staying in the arena.

So you're not getting any spiders for your birthday? Ag Tray?

No, I'm burning the house down if I do that's justified.

Remember to take advantage of the moment before the moment takes advantage of you. To learn more about eWalkabout, please visit us at eWalkabout. Cat.