Welcome to the Functional Tennis Podcast.

I'm your host, Fabio Molli and I bring you insights and lessons from players, coaches, parents and experts who are ingrained in the world of high level tennis.

This week I'm joined by American pro Alex Kovachevic.

Alex came through the US College system and has been steadily climbing the ATP ranks with standout performances including a win over Andrey Rublev on his way to an ATP 250 final earlier this year.

What's most interesting is that Alex never really believed he'd become a professional tennis player.

We chat about how that mindset shifted his grown belief in his game.

Learning to handle losses, life on tour, managing nerves and what he's picked up from facing the world's best.

Before we get started, a shout out to our podcast partners, Asics.

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Check it out@asics.com and if you need any help, just send me a message on the Functional Tennis Instagram account.

Okay, here's Alex, who's also known as Kova by his friends and colleagues on tour.

Hey Alex, how's it going?

Welcome to Functional Tennis Podcast.

Hey Fabian, thanks for having me.

We just spoke there.

You're Kova, so I'm going to refer to as Kova.

I never knew it.

Obviously your name on your ATP bio is Alexander.

Then I knew it was Alex.

That's your Instagram profile name, but now it's Kova.

So we're shortening here bit by bit.

By the end of this we'll have a three or two letter word name for you.

Yeah, I've been called many things my whole life, so anything really works.

Tell me, you're in London at the moment getting ready for some grass court action.

What tournaments are you playing?

What's the lineup looking like?

Yeah, so I just got back from the Netherlands last night.

Played in her Togen Bosch there.

I was actually not really planning to play there.

I was pretty far out of the tournament.

Flew to London first just to start training with my coach, he lives in North London, so.

But then we looked the list and I was like two out of the tournament in Netherlands.

Said, okay, you know what, London has some rain coming in, why not just go play a.

Play a tournament real quick in the Netherlands?

Didn't go so well, but that's okay.

As I looked at it more as a practice week and then, yeah, Kappa Queens coming up here in London this Saturday, playing Mallorca the next week and then playing the big show, Wimbledon.

Excited for grass.

It's always a fun surface to play on.

No matter how the results actually go.

It's always just nice to have variety in this long tennis season that we have.

Do you see the grass courtesy as a bit of a chill period or am I completely wrong?

More relaxed.

So I think that the problem is actually, if you think about it that way, that you're not going to go so well.

I think my first year on grass was kind of like that.

I was like, oh, you know, grass is not like you're not going to play 30 ball rallies on it.

It's kind of like shorter points, just serving well, it's stuff.

But I think if you, if you adopt that kind of mentality, you're not going to be prepared as well as some other guys for it.

I think, you know, you still want to have all your fitness stuff go.

You want to have like, you know, high stamina, high.

Because all that stuff seeps into actually, you know, your game.

It's not just about what's, you know, surface you're on, but you want to be a complete player.

And I think you see that with a lot of the guys that are winning on grass, you know, in the last couple of years.

It's not necessarily how it used to be in the, in in the old days where it was centered around a lot of, you know, serving volleyers, a lot of the guys.

Now I mean, look at Carlitos, he's, he's won Wimbledon last year, which to me was kind of like a wake up call of like, okay, you know, it's.

The best players are usually the best players nowadays, you know.

And what are the best players doing?

As Federer said, they're, they're usually the best movers.

And so if you can have that base fitness based movement level and bring that onto the grass and are able to adjust well on the grass, then you're actually going to do probably better than the guys that don't do that.

And the guys are thinking, oh, okay, I'm just going to serve, volley my way through the draw and that.

And I mean that's been kind of like, like a, you know, that's come coming honestly for me because last couple of years I, I didn't do this the best on grass, as, as I kind of, and on clay, you know, thinking that I have to change my game and change what I do do well to accommodate the grass.

Whereas I I think nowadays a lot of the surfaces are getting more and more similar.

I think what you, what you as a player do well is, is what's going to set you apart on each of the surfaces and it's not, and not as much about, you know, playing like you would think on, on the grass, you know, so.

Yeah.

And what sort of team do you have?

Obviously Damien's your coach.

I'll get on to later how I know him.

But do you travel with a trainer or physio?

As of now, no.

I've been thinking about obviously adding a physio, traveling physio here and there.

But you know, the ATP physios are, are quite good.

I have a good relationship with a lot of them, so I haven't felt the need to really have a full time physio.

It's quite, you know, an additional cost as well.

And, and as you go, you know, up to the rankings, you want to start adding pieces of the puzzle.

So it's, you know, because you obviously get more, more funds the more you do well on the court and then you can reinvest that back into your career and that's, that's important.

Still waiting to make kind of like a, hopefully bigger, bigger breakthroughs so then I can expand my team a little bit.

I have my fitness coach in Boca, Franco, who's also working with Tommy Paul and, and Ethan Quinn and a couple of those guys.

Been working with him for quite a while.

And then, you know, I'm trying to figure out some things at home as well.

I might be moving around a little bit in terms of where I'm living as well.

My parents have been living in Boca for a while and I've been living there and for tennis, it's amazing there.

And then I have a girlfriend that lives in Dallas.

And in Dallas, you know, there's a tennis scene as well.

So it's not like you go in the middle of nowhere and can't have anyone to practice with.

So I'm figuring out some stuff for the future kind of at the moment.

But now, yeah, in Europe I've been with my coach, Damian Jackson and he's been great.

He's been helping me out with some, you know, specific grass court movement stuff, clay court movement stuff that, you know, he's learned through being a Brit over the years.

And so it's, it.

I'm pretty, pretty happy with what I've got going on now.

I just need to just more focus on how I can, you know, improve my game and what I need to do.

With the pieces I need to put together.

And we've had Frank wan be on here before.

Really nice guy.

Is probably on about two years ago.

So he was in Paris.

I didn't get to meet him.

So that must have been good.

Yeah, Frank was pretty busy with, with you know, he's got a lot going on at home and, and he's got Tommy to look after as well and so and Tommy's obviously he's, he hasn't pretty much full part of his team.

So Tommy's in a little different position than I am and hoping open to get to where Tommy's at so that I can have a kind of similar situation.

But it was obviously awesome to see see all those guys.

We're, we're a big you know, in Boco there's quite a bit of the American guys all living in the same same spot.

So it's always nice to go back there and train train with you know, Ethan Quinn's there now.

He's doing great.

Tommy Paul Tiafo Francis lift there.

So it's a cool little crew we got going on great.

And you mentioned Carlitos Alcaraz.

Did you watch the final?

Yeah, I think I had practiced during the start of it.

Me and my coach got to watch a little bit specifically at the end of the, the match and it was obviously yeah, amazing match.

To be honest, I, I, I don't love watching tennis too much.

That was an amazing match to watch.

But I played this sport for 21 years.

Whenever I had a chance to, to not think about it, I tried to take those opportunities and especially yeah, I think a couple other guys have talked about it.

You know, our season is from January through basically November and December is basically for preseason.

So it's really, you really don't get much time away from the sport and it's, and it's pretty consuming, you know, especially when you're on the road, you're alone.

How what you do every day is curated to trying to be as good as you can be.

And when things are going not so well, things are going well.

It pretty much dictates your mood and everything.

And so I try to do a, do a good job of kind of having on other interests, other things I like to do outside of the tennis court.

And it's very rare for me to watch a tennis match.

But that was a match definitely I was gonna, I was gonna at least watch some of.

So I'm not happy I did because it was quite the high, quite a high level.

Sometimes you have these like super anticipated matches and they just don't deliver as much as you hope.

And that was definitely not, not cases.

And from a professional point of view, what was your thought on the level?

Yeah, I mean, makes you question why, why you're still doing it.

Sometimes when you watch these guys play, play that, you know, ridiculous level, it's just like, wow, you know, I really thought Sinner was going to come through at one point.

And I'm just watching MG be a ball machine and I'm trying to figure out what exactly it is that, you know, Carlos does that that bothers Yannick because no one else really does.

I'm still trying to kind of watch and figure those kind of things out because I don't know, I don't always have the best eye for seeing those like at the, at the very, very top level of.

So when I'm watching center play, sometimes I'm just like, I don't know what you do to stop this.

I don't know what it is that you counter this with.

But Carlos is able to find that ability to do it.

And I still am trying, I try to figure it out and I just can't really see what it is.

But obviously there's something there.

But it was just.

Yeah.

So you have a Serbian background?

Your parents are Serbian?

Yeah, my dad is Serbian, my mom is from Boston.

Do you have Novak vibes like when you're playing grown up saying you got some energy from how good Novak was?

Yeah, when I first started playing, my dad was like super into like building my technique to be super perfect.

And one guy that he modeled my game around was Federer.

So he kind of like pushed me to watch a lot of Federer and say like model my game around Federer.

Obviously that's why I have a one handed backhand.

So I can't say I watched that much jokers when I was super young.

But then once I got a little bit older, maybe from 8 to 12 years old, I started to like kind of really appreciate what Djokovic was doing out there, especially starting to set these records and playing these amazing matches with, with both of those guys.

And as I got even older and started playing on the pro tour a little bit, I got to meet Novak and first thing we spoke with each other was in Serbian.

That was really cool.

And ever since watching him my last few years when I was in college and pro, I really, really got to understand how difficult what he's been doing for the last, I don't even know, 25 years has been with just the mental consistency of you don't really understand it when you're a kid, because that's not something you really think about.

You just watch tennis and you're just seeing, like, balls being hit when you really are competing and you just realize how hard it is to just win like one tournament at any, you know, level.

And then this guy's won 24 of the best tournaments in the world and it just, it's like mind blowing.

The longevity and the things you see, like when you, you know, when I got to playing pro, even before pro, even in the junior tournaments, getting through a first round of a tournament, things like that.

Like that for me is something I look at as a challenge.

A lot of times even, it doesn't matter.

I could be playing a weak tournament and it's still something, you know, mentally challenging playing someone that, you know, maybe you feel like you should be.

Things like that.

The, the way that I've seen Djokovic mentally handled those situations over the years has been one of the most impressive things I've ever seen in tennis where, you know, every, he's just so consistent in every tournament.

And that just speaks to, I don't know, his preparation, everything he's doing.

So every time, you know, once, once I met him and got to know him, I'm just like, hey, man, whatever you're doing, I don't know what it is and I want to do it myself.

And that, that's where that Serbian connection comes in a little bit.

And, you know, he's a little, I think, more warm to me a little bit.

And I, I'm, obviously, I don't need to be warm to him.

He's an, he's, you know, a legend that I'm, I'm always going to be fascinated by what he's done.

So, yeah, I mean, ever since I got to a certain age, I started to really idolize the way he handles, handles his tennis, his mind.

I think for tennis players, the number one thing is like, many players will say it's almost like you see it said every day.

Everyone can hit a ball pretty well, but it's those guys that just find that mental consistency that propels them to beat, to be, to do incredible things.

You're seeing, you know, Sinner and Alcaraz, like, they're starting to get to that level of, like there's machines mentally, physically, just, you know, they're going every tournament, they're going finals, winning it.

So it's, it's, it's impressive to find that, find that consistency.

And I think that's it starts with the mental side of it.

I'm still trying to find that in my game, so.

And that's the number one thing I'm focused on mental.

Nice.

And so moving on to college tennis, you were saying four and a half years you were in where you're in Illinois.

You didn't have a great junior ranking, did you?

No, no.

Which is really important thing to emphasize because now you're top 100 player.

You didn't have a great.

Everybody thinks I need to have a great junior Rankin, you know, I need to be top 50.

You know, they put a lot of pressure on that.

And then obviously that helps you get a good college.

But how.

I think you're ranked about 500.

ITF was it?

Yeah, I don't know.

I don't even know what the ITF ranking was.

I just know it wasn't.

Wasn't great.

Yeah, well, I was roughly about that.

I think it was just over 500.

So how did that shape your decision making?

Going into college?

Or did you.

Did a bit of.

You want to go pro?

Oh, no.

I mean, it wasn't even a question.

I wasn't even thinking about pro tennis when I got to college.

I mean, of course, in the back of my mind.

And so it was always like something I'd like to have done, but for me it was always.

And this is something that maybe my.

My, like, I'm somewhat envious of people that.

Or in some ways I would call it like delusionally confident where they just think they're just going to achieve these amazing things without even knowing what that's like before they do it.

I was never like that.

I was very realistic.

And like I said, that might be something.

That's not the best phrase, but it is what it is.

And I think it's helped me in some moments because I've always been like, you know, in some ways paranoid.

I had doubt about, you know, where I'm at.

I want to always keep improving.

But for me it was like, all right, uh, I'm here.

Can I get to the next step?

And, and for me, that was, you know, at that point I was a junior.

Wasn't.

Wasn't that great.

A lot of it was also, I wasn't the hardest worker when I was, you know, in the mid teens.

Everyone when I was super young was telling me that I was so talented.

I was going to be, you know, amazing and all that.

And, and I, you know, as a kid, I.

It was a bit of a curse.

I was just like, okay, I Don't really need to work hard and I'm going to be pro or something.

And then by, you know, 13, 14, it was clear that I was far away from that and really behind the curve.

I would say not.

Not doing great at all.

I think eventually that, that, let's say, talent that people were talking about was one of the reasons I've gotten to where I.

I have now because, you know, there's so many people work hard and stuff, and there's guys working harder than me.

I feel like that, you know, it's.

There's still a skill set, I guess, that you need.

And, and I'm.

I'm not as talented as.

As many people as well, but I think.

I think the hard work mixed with.

With some kind of talent helps you to get to wherever you are.

And so I think when I got to college, I just.

But.

But I always, like, Like I said, I never even thought I was going to be pro.

I would have liked to be pro, basically.

And so when I got to college, it was more just like, all right, I'm ranked.

I'm not.

I'm playing four for my, for my school, try to win as many matches I can for my team.

And then I did pretty well in that first year, and I got moved up by my junior year to one or two on the team.

And then I was started to be ranked, let's say 50, 30 through 50 in college.

And I was like, oh, huh?

I'm 30 to 50.

I'm beating some guys that are 20.

Do I think I can get there?

Let's see.

And then I would start to, you know, get a little higher.

And then I'm like, okay, I'm 20 in college.

Like, can I beat these guys that are top 10?

I beat a couple of guys.

I'm like, okay, I think since I beat them, I think I can do it too.

Then I got the top 10 in college, and I was like, okay, look at these guys that were top 10 in college before me.

You know, Cam Norrie, Alex Vukic, my teammate.

They're all doing pretty well in the pros.

Maybe I can try pro tennis out and see how it goes.

Tried it out.

And I got to 300 in the world quite quickly after college and said, okay, you know, I'm 300 in the world.

I'm being some guys that are 150.

I think maybe I can do it.

But that's always been it.

That's always been a stepping stone.

I never went from 300 in the world to thinking, okay, I'M going to just be top 100 tomorrow for no reason.

I always, you know, thought, hey, I got to this point, can I push a little hard?

You know, can I.

Can I see myself getting to the next level?

And that's always how it's been and still is how it's been.

You know, I'm aiding the world now, and I'm like, okay, I've been some guys that are top 50, but am I consistent enough yet to get to top 50?

I don't know.

We'll see.

So it's like, it's always about, what can I do to get, you know, the next step?

I.

I don't.

I can't say, hey, you know, I want to be top 10 in the world, because I don't even know what that's like, really.

You know, I.

I played a couple of those guys sometimes.

But top 10 in the world means you're doing, like, you're consistently playing, you know, at a certain level, and, and, and you're doing this and that.

And I don't really.

It's hard to relate and say, I'm going to be there when I don't know what that's like yet.

So it's like, I've always been somewhat realistic with my goals, and like I said, I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but that's.

That's how it's been for me.

But that's kept me kind of motivated over the years as well, to.

To.

I never thought anything was out of reach either, because I just never thought about it.

I was just kind of like, all right, like, here I am today playing against this guy.

Maybe I can beat him, maybe I can't.

We'll see.

And.

And things have gone up for me, but that's obviously, you know, you know, you don't know what a point.

At what point that, you know, that what's your ceiling or.

Or what it is.

But I would.

I would encourage any young player to just, you know, put one foot in front of the other and just keep going.

There's no downside to that.

I would.

I would say, you know, like, that doesn't mean that, you know, If I was 30 years old and I can't crack the top 500 in the world, that I would think it's a good financial decision to keep trying to do that.

You know, there's.

There's.

There's just, you know, the reality of life.

Some.

Some people make it, some people don't.

You try to do Your the best you can and that's all you can do.

But you know, if, if doubts are always normal.

I've had them my whole career.

I have them today.

I just lost a couple matches and not feeling too good about things, but just trying to put one foot in front of the other and not think about it too much and keep getting back to work.

And for me specifically that's been the antidote to these kind of moments.

And I think it will continue to be.

I think that's just the only way to go about it is to put one foot in front of the other.

Think about the next match, next practice that you can get a little better at.

That's that interesting.

It's great to hear some of these realistic, you know, down turret and you've taken it stage by stage.

It's like, okay, get next level, okay.

Then you worry about problems that come with the next level after that when you get to that level.

But in college tennis, did you just decide, was it that you decided to put in the work?

And a bit of belief came in there as well.

But when was there a day where you said, look, I'm actually going to put in the work here, yeah, I'm talented, I haven't been working but I'm going to decide to work.

Was there a day like that?

I wouldn't say it was a day, but it was definitely like there was definitely a year, I think where I really started to believe that okay, I can do be pro.

And I think that was my junior year.

I think my first year in college I was having a little too much fun maybe and I was just living college life, you know, it's.

And not like I said, I was pretty far from thinking about truly being, let's say a pro tennis player, let alone a top 100 tennis player.

But I think in college also the system didn't let us be too, too, too loosey goosey, too lazy.

Our coach was really tough on us in terms of training, in terms of fitness.

So it's like, you know, naturally just being a part of that.

You're going to get, you know, bent into shape a little bit and your character gets tested quite a bit.

I think in college, you know, you're, you're no longer under your parents roof and you know, you're in the real not, I wouldn't say real world, that's far from the real world.

But like you, you're part of a team, you're part of a bigger vision as well.

Especially I would, I would, you know, push Anyone that's looking into playing pro tennis to go to a college that's pretty serious about tennis and about, about being good and the teams has some, you know, camaraderie and trying and a, how do I say?

A, a common vision of being good.

And that's what, what I had at Illinois, I think I had a bunch of guys that also, you know, if you slacked off, it's not just the coach that gets mad, it's the team.

The team's like, all right, like we're trying to win and you're, you're, you know, tanking.

It's not, not a good feeling to let other people down.

I think that's one benefit of college is, you know, you're, you're put into the system that, you know, it, it'll get you better at tennis and it'll get you better at, at managing, you know, life in general.

It's kind of, I'm really happy.

I mean, not, like I said, I wasn't even considering going pro before college.

I was actually considering going to like, let's say a super high level academic school, like a Harvard or something like that because, you know, tennis can give you opportunity to go there and then, you know, maybe you go on to get quite a good job or something after that you have, you know, it's, it's quite a privilege to be like, to be able to use sports to get into some of these places that otherwise would be quite, quite tough just, just on academics alone.

So that was something I was looking at.

But instead of, you know, I, I chose to go to a school that had a little more of a balance of both.

I, I, that was my personal opinion on it.

I didn't go to Harvard, so I can't say how it, how it is there.

But yeah, no, I think, I think going the college route matures you as well.

I think if I went pro before college, I would get so burnt out playing, you know, 15Ks.

I wasn't good, so I was going to be losing for two years straight.

If I did that, I think I would have quit tennis a long time ago.

So it's like, I think college is quite, quite a good path for guys that aren't fully ready to go pro.

Now you ask me about like, let's say Fonseca or someone like that don't go to college, like, you know, but that's, you know, that's, that's, that's something that should be obvious, you know what I mean?

I think if it's not obvious I think going to college is the better route.

It's kind of funny.

I use Reddit a good bit and every time I load Reddit, my browser, for some reason it goes to a Reddit post saying, fonseca signed for uva.

What?

Uv, Virginia was it?

Where did he go?

Yeah, and it's like, it was crazy.

But question.

You probably get this question all the time, Covid, where I'm sure parents come up to you, they want your advice.

Is there.

What's your cut off for a player?

Obviously, Fonseca and Alcres and Sinner, the exceptional.

But do you think there's a cutoff that a player to go pro or to go college?

Obviously, if you're one of the best juniors, you're going to get your Harvard or Stanford or wherever you want.

You've.

You're picking a bunch.

But is there a certain line where you should just go pro?

That's.

It's a tough question for me.

I don't think it's a certain line because of how, how high the level on college tennis now is.

And I think now, I mean, I don't really know the details of all the things they've done for college tennis, but.

But I'm pretty sure they have quite a bit of incentive now to go to college because then you get out and you have these like, junior exam or special exams.

I don't know what it's called exactly, for I think accelerator program, something like that.

I think there's so many foreigners in college tennis now you have these guys getting paid as well.

So financially, it's not a bad decision too, to go to college first.

I think you really, I mean, I don't know what the line is, but I know I knew who Fonseca was before he went to uva, and that's saying something.

And when that article came out, not just me, but a bunch of pros were like, what's going on here?

Like, get this guy to pros.

He's, you know, he's.

Most of us said all right, like, yeah, he's committed to uva, but we'll see if he actually, like, there's no way, because the kid was.

I mean, he's absolutely amazing.

I don't know.

I don't know what the, what the exact line would be, but it's hard because it's, it's, it's not really like a ranking kind of thing.

It's more like, you know, when I saw Fonseca play and some of the guys he's beating, even though Maybe he's ranked 400 in the world.

You're like, okay, this kid's, this kid's ready to play tennis now.

Like ready to play pro tennis now.

He's got that much talent.

And so it's hard, let's say, to say, you know, you know, a line in the sand of like when you should, what you should do.

But I think 95% of all top, even top 100 prospects should go first to college, I think, and then see, maybe just go for a year.

My buddy Ethan Quinn just went for a year.

It's not like the average age for tennis is young.

You need to be physically also quite developed to compete at the highest level.

Doesn't mean you can't make it quite good without the physicality.

But there's no rush basically, is what I'm saying.

There's guys are playing till 34, 35 now and Joker's 38.

That's credit to his longevity.

But realistically I would say more like 35, 36 is, is the cutoff.

And so you know, 18, 18 year olds don't really, don't really need to go pro.

They don't need to like, you know, you, I think, like I said, I don't know what the line is, but I think you'll know like, and I think people will tell you as well.

I think a lot of people will come up to you.

Pros can even tell you like if, if you should go pro or go, go to college.

Yeah, well, and plus you, you see good college guys.

I'm not sure exactly what ranking you landed.

You probably finished.

You're a tree.

Were you about 350 in the world coming out of college?

Yeah, something like that.

I think maybe a little lower.

400, something like that.

Yeah, that's what a top good college player is going to.

If you're really good college player, you're going to come out.

Yeah.

So you, you're sort of skipping the futures, squeezing into the challengers and you've, you've missed obviously you've had it a bit cushier and probably got paid.

Not probably in your case, but now you get paid in university if you're good and cushy number fitness is up, you're strong, you have, you probably learned some life lessons in college, I hope.

Learn to do your own washing.

Yeah.

Ready for the tour but so quickly jumping on to.

You had your.

Sorry before actually, last question on college tennis.

What in your opinion is the difference between, between a top college tennis player and you now in the top 100.

So if you look back at the day you left college and today, where's the biggest shift?

I think, for one, you know, you have to be a little more used to losing.

I think in, in the pros, it's, you know, and if you're a really good college player, you're actually winning quite a bit of matches, I think, and, and you're not losing that much.

I mean, you're losing maybe against, you know, the other top players, but a lot of times if you're playing in the conference and stuff, you're not playing a lot of the other top players, you know, every week.

So you're maybe going, let's say Colton Smith, I don't know.

Let's say, I think he went like 26 and 2.

But on the pro tour and especially at the ATP Tour, when you make it the top 100, you're losing.

Oh, you're losing every week.

And, and you have a week between.

Whereas in college, you know, like, you can play a match and then in a couple days you have another match, win or lose, so you're right back on the horse with.

In the pros, you have to just be.

You have to be okay with.

I wouldn't say be okay with losing, but learn how to lose.

And that's one thing that I think a lot of the college guys can struggle with coming out of college is, you know, you come to college, I mean, you come out, you get out of college, you start going the pro tour, maybe you do well in a couple tournaments, but then, you know, you lose six matches in a row.

That's something that happened to me the first two years out of college.

Still kind of happens.

I have to learn how to deal with that.

And it's not easy because everyone's really good.

So, like, you're trying to find where to give confidence from while you're trying to win matches against the best in the world.

And that's super tough.

So like I said, you know, at the start with the, with how the top guys are mentally, like the mentality of being a pro, you have to learn how to be a pro tennis player.

And that's.

And that means, you know, handling a long season from January to November, handling, you know, being on the road for months at a time, not seeing anybody, you know, being away from home for that long, learning how to go out and practice the day after you lose with, you know, you don't have a college coach for screaming at you, making, making you go play.

You have a coach that you now pay that it's just different.

It's just different in a lot of ways.

And you have to learn how to live with that and learn how to excel in that kind of environment.

It's really quite different from college.

But I think college does a good job of setting you up for it.

Even though it is different, I think it can build your character in a different way to still get you mature and ready to go for this next challenge.

But yeah, in that sense, it's quite different.

If you haven't noticed.

If you watch a lot of the college matches, you see the celebrations, you see the grunting, you see the amount of energy in each match, it's super high.

But if you watch some of these players, I won't name them because a lot of people can say they're quite annoying and stuff, but you watch them in college doing all these crazy things and they get to pro tour and just naturally, obviously getting older also helps, but they just start to get a little more calm, a little more collected.

Because what my theory is, and I think is quite true, is week, week to week, you're playing so many weeks, you just can't do it.

It's just too.

You play five, let's say even you're doing well, you're playing four or five matches a week, you're going crazy in every match.

It's going to tire you out.

You just can't do it.

And mentally, it's just really, really hard.

And so people, you kind of like, get in this mode that.

And you see the same guys every week.

So it's just like, it's this.

Everyone starts to kind of get similar to each other in a lot of ways.

And I think that's something that you'll.

You learn as, as you get on the pro tour is like, you know, you got so many weeks, you got to learn how to like, manage yourself, manage your emotions, man, it.

Manage your tennis.

And, and that's something that's very different from college.

As, as in college, you're kind of just told to give it everything you've got on every point and do this, you know, very.

I don't know.

I don't know how to describe it.

But yeah, it's a bit easier when you have a big team as well.

But yeah, that's crazy.

It sounds like it's a, you know, life on the road for you.

It's an office job.

Yeah.

And that's exactly what it is.

What the difference is in college and pro.

I mean, by definition, that's kind of what it Is, is now you're, you know, in the real world and you're working an office job.

That's sometimes things are great, sometimes things aren't so great.

It's a long season.

You could, you could love tennis one week you can.

After five weeks on the road, you're like I can't wait to go home.

But all those things have to be handled in a professional way because you, you're still, you know, the guy across the net from you doesn't care.

And what in which, you know, feeling you have that day, you have to still go out there and, and try to try to win the match.

And like I said, that's something I'm actually still getting, getting better at.

You know, there's times in this year where I've been so excited to go out and train and there's times this year where I've the last thing I want to do is see a tennis court that's not always tied to results either sometimes.

And you know, I've been doing super well and some moments of the year and I just, I'm sick of this.

You know, it's just, it's, it's not, it's a job.

Do you decide to practice that day or do you say I'm not, not practicing today.

Most of the times you know, you got to practice and that's what it is.

And then there's times where it's healthy to take, take off.

That's something you and decide.

I played quite a bit of tournaments this, this clay season and right before clay season.

So I decided to take a week off and, and go to Italy on the beach for a week and I think it's helped me doesn't mean that, that now I can come back and start playing like Federer the day back but, but mentally it's a, it's a good kind of refresh reset and now I have to get you know, the reps in that I didn't do for the week.

I'm, I'm getting them in now on the grass hit for four hours today.

So I'm trying to kind of make up for it but I'm definitely more excited to be back on the court than I was a week ago before that break.

Nice.

And speaking of Fedra, you have that one had a backhand.

Normally when I get player on the podcast I look to what videos do I have and I have a load of a chunkier videos with the one handed backhand.

You get a lot of love for that.

Yeah, absolutely.

And that's I You know, my whole life people have told me that, you know, they love my backhand, they love how it looks.

I've always almost got it desensitized by it.

I still appreciate it.

Like, like, you know, sometimes I get, I get to really think about it.

I'm like, wow, it's, it's, it's nice that people love to watch how I play and stuff but at the same time sometimes I wish I had the two handed back and to help me out for some shots, you know, and it's, especially with the modern game, I feel like it's definitely leaning towards a more, you know, two hand, two handed backhand definitely helps you in some, in some areas, specifically on returns and having the extra strength.

A lot of the guys now are more.

And the way the game is just with the balls slowed down the game a little bit, I think it, it helps to be able to hit the ball super hard.

I think the two handers are a little more consistent with that now.

That doesn't mean that one hander is dead.

I think, you know, Musetti has been doing amazing, so what can you really say?

It's maybe we just, maybe I just suck.

I don't know.

But.

Well, you're keeping the dream alive for me.

Yeah, I just, it's, it's my, my whole life I've told, I've been told I have such a beautiful game.

I'm like, I would trade it in for a second for an UG if I could win more matches, I think.

But yeah, no, but it's nice, it's nice to hear.

And ATP 250 this year.

You got a good run.

You got the final taking down top 10 player R.

Rublev.

How did that feel?

Yeah, felt great.

I think that was my probably biggest win I've ever had.

I've watched that guy play, you know, from college, from when I was still ranked, you know, I can't even imagine when I was ranked nothing.

And watching that guy play with the best of all, like, you know, it's almost, it's almost comical that I'm able to play against those kind of guys nowadays and be, and win a match against them.

So super amazing.

You know, a lot of the friends I had from home that I used to play tennis with, you know, before college, would always make jokes like, you know, who are you hitting with tomorrow?

Like Rublev.

And it was so far away, that would be a funny joke.

And now it's like I'm playing, I'm really playing with these guys.

It's like it's cool.

It's really cool.

Nice.

That's great for you to have a week like that.

You need them, don't you, to keep the spirits up high and obviously, bit more cash and a few extra points and it's all good.

Helps, helps.

But like I said, it's a long years, you know, I think I had about a day to celebrate and not even celebrate, actually lost a heartbreak in the final.

So it was kind of.

I was kind of sad and pissed after that week, even though it should have been.

Obviously it.

It was a very positive week, but went straight to Rotterdam the next day and got sick.

And it was, you know, it's.

It's hard this tennis season.

You know, you don't get.

You don't get much time to really soak anything in.

You're just kind of on to the next.

But that's both the beauty and.

And kind of like the ugly part of it is that you also.

I think actually Rublev was the one to say, like, every week's an opportunity.

You could lose six straight weeks and then win the seventh week.

And hey, look at you, you're on top of the world.

So.

So that's the one thing with tennis is just ever, you know, ever going.

You know, I've had weeks where I did super well, and then the next three weeks, lose first round, and then you're in the dumps.

Like, we're literally just like that.

It's.

It's crazy.

But that's what I mean about also managing your emotions, managing yourself over this long year.

And what is a celebratory night for you if you win your next 250, 500 or whatever, you decide to be a big celebration.

How do you treat yourself?

Honestly, if I was still in college, I would tell you much different because nowadays I really don't.

I'm really tame.

And I think you have to be.

You hear all these stories about Agassi and McEnroe having.

Having their fun during their days, saffin, all this stuff.

But I think nowadays a game's so physical, so different, that, you know, I think everyone's just super professional.

And I've fallen into that as well.

I'm, you know, my celebratory time would be a nice dinner with maybe my girlfriend, my coach, something like that.

Not, you know, usually it's on the road.

Usually it's at some random city.

It's.

Usually there's, you know, I wouldn't even know what to do.

So it's, it's.

And like I said, Your celebratory means you've probably won the tournament.

Meaning you have another tournament, like a day or two.

Yeah.

Unless you're Carlos and you're in a.

You're on a flight to Ibiza.

So I think that guy knows how to have fun.

And, And I would be just like him if I, if, If I won the French Open and my next tournament wasn't for like two weeks.

But you gotta, you gotta act like, you gotta act where you are.

You can't just, you know, have a good week and then just have fun for two weeks.

And if you're like, you know, 80, 80 to 100 in the world, there's always, always the next one.

So I don't really know.

Yeah, tough to answer that question nowadays.

It will change depending on the ranking.

I think so.

And Damien, your coach, reach out to me, I don't know, like five, six, seven weeks ago, and say, I'm looking to get a saber.

Which should I get?

And he bought, he bought a saber middle.

And he was your coach.

I didn't know at the time.

And then I started seeing people sent me a couple of videos of you hit with the saber, which was exciting for me to see.

We get some pros, it would.

It.

Some we get videos, some we don't.

So it's just to use people normally.

Somebody use that term and we might see it.

But for you in.

Do you use the saber?

He force you to use the saber?

No, no, I use it.

I actually asked for a log when he has two of them in his bag now.

I don't know how.

When he got the second one.

But yeah, I, you know, a big thing for that I've.

I don't know for my game is, you know, trying to really feel the ball.

And I, I'm playing pretty well when I can really feel the ball and I can catch the ball on my strings.

And so, you know, the saber's got that little, basically sweet spot.

And I.

For warm ups.

I think it's such a good, good thing for the eyes and, and for the feel is if you can really catch it in that, in that little, little racket, then you take the big rack and you feel like it's, it's.

It's easy.

It's like, it's.

So it's similar to like, you know, playing with the wood rack.

When I used to, before the saber, I, I used to play with a wood racket here and there because, you know, it really gets your eyes going, your, Your coordination to.

It's.

It's it's not easy, you know, if you play with that thing for the first time and you're trying to, I don't know, be.

Be lazy with it, you're.

You're gonna shoot.

You know, I hit the frame every time, and so when I know I'm playing pretty well, when I can hit the ball pretty well with that thing, and if I'm not feeling the ball well, I tell Dan, give me that saber.

I want to do some reps with it.

So it's been a really nice tool for training to start, mostly to start off the trainings.

I'll hit with it for five to 10 minutes and then take my racket and start playing.

Amazing.

Thank you for that.

And finally, what racket to use?

What's your spec, and what string do you use?

I use a blade, 16 by 19 in this.

The Wilson.

I use 4G in the mains and aloe rough in the cross for my string.

And, yeah, I've been using that since.

Since college.

I've always used Wilson my whole life.

But I think in my second year in college, I tried that racket.

The.

Yeah, just the one off the shelf.

The vise at the time was the V6.

And.

And.

And loved it.

Just.

And I think, you know, messing around too much with rackets, because it's always kind of like a detrimental thing.

For me specifically, you know, I.

There's always that time where you try a new racket, you get to the honeymoon stage where you love it for two weeks, and you play a match, but then you lose, and you're like, oh, wow, this really wasn't what I thought it was.

And.

And just this, like, loop.

So for me, I found the racket that I love, and.

And I'm just kind of sticking with it.

And that's the.

Probably the most important, you know, decision you can make in terms of your.

It is the most important decision you can make in terms of your equipment.

You know, going with a different clothing brand or something.

That doesn't really change the way you play at all.

But.

But.

But rackets are quite important.

So once you find something to like, I.

I like, you know, just sticking with it.

Is it stock weight or do you have extra?

Is it.

I've got it customized a bit.

I don't know.

The customization specs have them saved somewhere, I think.

But guys at Wilson, they just get my rackets, they do them up, and they send to me already customized.

So they're really good with that.

Nice.

Alex.

Well, great having you on.

Best of luck.

Over the next few weeks on the slippy grass.

Yeah.

Thank you, Fabio.

Thanks for having me, Sam.