[00:00:00] Nina Endrst: Hi, I'm Nina Endrst.

[00:00:05] Anna Toonk: I'm Anna Toonk.

[00:00:06] Nina Endrst: Welcome to how to be human.

[00:00:08] Anna Toonk: A podcast that explores the common and often confusing themes of humanness.

[00:00:12] Nina Endrst: On this episode, Anna and I discuss self-consciousness

Take a seat, clear mind and let's chat.

[00:00:21] Anna Toonk: Hello. We're back.

[00:00:23] Nina Endrst: Hold on. the remix round two.

[00:00:27] Anna Toonk: My Internet's being delightful today. How are you? I

[00:00:32] Nina Endrst: already know how you are. were you I'll skip where you letting I also like that, it feels like a E's way of being like I'm gonna ask, but just so everybody else knows. I already know

[00:00:50] Anna Toonk: God, I know. Why are we like this?

I mean, we, I, I was in a bar class with a wonderful teacher. Who's a former client of mine now turned friend anyway. And she was, I told her, I asked her if she could teach Saturday classes in addition to Sunday, and we were doing the Saturday class. And people were like, we'd love this. I'm like, isn't it a great idea.

It was my idea.

[00:01:15] Nina Endrst: so deeply relatable. So deeply relatable.

[00:01:18] Anna Toonk: I was like, why did I have to tell them it was my, it was my I'm like, I don't want the credit or anything. I just want you all to know it was my idea. And we're all very excited about it.

[00:01:27] Nina Endrst: you know what I think also, so doesn't help our, like with the Aries is you have a cancer moon.

I have a cancer son and. The Aries as well, which is your son, my rising, those are both Cardinal signs. So they're both bossy. , they're both like, you know, so it's funny to me that they're very like doers, you know, take initiative, like, and to have that double dose, sometimes I'm like, I have to, when I'll be like, that was my idea or that I'm like, don't Uhuh, don't be Cardinal right now.

I'm like, relax. Is that really? What's important. , it's hard, you know, but I'll be like, I hear yourself. I hear you like,

[00:02:14] Anna Toonk: oh man. So what are we talking about

[00:02:16] Nina Endrst: today are talking about self consciousness, which one of my babes very excited about. Cause I have a lot of thoughts and feelings. It is a no, this is our definition coming from Oxford languages.

It is a no UE awareness of one's self one's appearance or one's actions. People warm to her candor and lack of self consciousness to the quality of being out deliberately and with full awareness, especially in an in and affected way. The self consciousness of the opening scene, devolves steadily into parity, philosophy, psychology, knowledge of one's own existence, especially the knowledge of one's self.

As a conscious being the political self consciousness of the working class was the example. Interesting. When I was younger, I was painfully self conscious in the first definition sense of UE awareness of one's self one's appearance or one's action. I was, I think it was hard for me to like figure out when I was younger, because I also didn't wanna be narcissistic, but I was so self aware of

[00:03:46] Anna Toonk: what exactly.

[00:03:48] Nina Endrst: I mean, I think honestly, mostly, like, I think I was really prone to feeling. I didn't know sometimes how to handle. I was supposed to say, like, I didn't know how to handle anything, but that's not how, I mean it, but I struggled sometimes I think to realize like someone making a comment wasn't always necessarily negative or bad, but I would just feel this like intense self consciousness, you know, of like, am I okay?

Am I right? Are they, is it bad? What they're saying? You know, like I would just have such a like strong reaction, I think sometimes to just like people not even trying to be jerks or like make a comment really, but like just my response would be so quick to it. And then when I was looking for a definition, I saw something that from F frontiers in.org, which I don't know what that.

Who they are, but they were like, but what caught me was they said self consciousness can be defined for an individual as the awareness of his, her own body in a time space continuum, and its interactions with the environment, including others. It also encompasses the awareness that the individual has of his, her own identity built over to time and interaction with others.

I also felt very self conscious about my body. Like not just from, um, not just from a, a, like a weight perspective, even though I know that I've talked ed nausea about that here, but from just an like struggling, I think to and how did I occupy space? Mm.

[00:05:30] Anna Toonk: Were you afraid that you were gonna do something wrong

[00:05:33] Nina Endrst: in general?

No, I think I didn't like attention. Mm. You know, or that's not wrong. Like everybody loves attention who doesn't like attention. I don't think I liked being the center of it or the focus of it that always made me very self conscious. Does that still make you self conscious? It can for sure. You know, like I definitely have a little bit of like stage fright and things like that.

I mean, now who knows, you know, cuz like I'm just an old bitch, like who knows at this point, you know, old bitch, new tricks. Yeah. It's true. Like I surprise myself all the time where I'll be like, well, I don't know how that's gonna go. And then I'm oh. And went whoa, like who knew? You know, I do think, you know, obviously we can grow and change and evolve, but um, it was like interesting with self consciousness.

Like I can just think about like when I was a little kid. So when I was young, My mom, cuz she's a crazy person in a great way was like, I'm, it's not good enough to just buy a Mercedes. I want to go to Germany and pick up our new Mercedes and drive it to Italy with my two small children, my brother and I were like three and six and she drove through the Alps all alone with two kids.

Jesus. And I was like, how did you do that? And she's like, I drug y'all and I was like, oh right she would give us Bena drone. We'd be like, bye bye. And so we spent the summer in Italy and. We would go, there were, there were all these kind of like carousels and things you could ride, you know? And my brother was obsessed and always wanted to be in like, you know, the plane or the, you know, spaceship, or, and there were ones that like would go up and like all the stuff on these, essentially like, um, like a America around like, you know, like would, would normally be home horses, but they had different ones that were like, you know, trucks and cars and stuff like that.

And, um, I was like, so self conscious. I never wanted to go on them. And I was like six years old. I was like, had no interest. Didn't want people to look at me trapped on that. And for people to look at me for like two minutes, like from a, a really young age, I was like, Nope, I wanna be able to like, maneuver around, like not be seen.

I don't know. I like it. It became a thing for me to like, kind of overcome as I got older.

[00:07:58] Anna Toonk: Well, it's interesting. Cause you said something in one of our episodes about being like, kind of flying under the radar in terms of at school and things getting into trouble, but you weren't at the forefront of it.

You weren't actively rebelling. And I, I think that's interesting that it started for you kind of early, not, you know, just not wanting to be the focus, which I wouldn't, I wouldn't peg you as some, I mean, I don't think you are a narcissist , but I, I wouldn't, I would wouldn't peg you as somebody who wanted to like, hang back

[00:08:31] Nina Endrst: that much.

Yeah, I think because I saw some freedom and like people not knowing what you were doing in a way or up to you could just sort of like do your thing, you know, like people, cuz I was like kind of a good kid in school, but like smoked cigarettes, you know, and like definitely rebelled. And like there was this.

We all used to smoke cigarettes behind the post office at my school. And people would like come behind the PO and be like, oh my God, Anna's here. And I was like, hell yeah, I've been smoking for some time. You know? Like I just was kind of like, keep your shit to yourself. You know, like, especially if it's, if you're being bad, you know, like I definitely was like, You know, to some of the people who are more outward rebellious or something like if, if you and I had gone to high school together, it would've been like, yo, lock it down and you can get away with a lot more, you know, like, that's true.

Don't let 'em know what you're up to. Like so true. But it also, but I think a lot of that and some of my sneakiness and also like unwillingness to ask for help and stuff, like kind of like shutting it down out of self consciousness. Like then in adulthood, I kind of had to learn how to like open it back up, you know, but I also think like it's hard also as a woman and someone who like got boobs really young, like there's so many things that come into what you become self of, you know, that it changes that I don't feel like I could kind of.

Unravel some of it and figure out like, what had I outgrown? What could I kind of put to bed? What was I newly self-conscious about? You know, now I'm newly self-conscious of starting to age. Like the pandemic's not been great for my gray hair situation and, and then kind of going, oh, I actually don't give a shit.

So I'm curious. What are you self-conscious about or what was baby Nina? Self-conscious about baby

[00:10:27] Anna Toonk: Nina was self-conscious about my family structure because nobody was getting divorced back then. So I was very self-conscious that I also remember being really self-conscious bringing people to my house.

My mom loves like antiques and trinkets and things. She has such a cool house, but I remember growing up around people who like. We had, they had very modern houses and they were like very suburban. And so every, there was like nothing on their counters and everything looked the same. And my house was super eclectic and my mom had singing bowls and , and I was really self conscious about that for a while, which is.

Fucking hilarious, because then I turned into that and I

[00:11:13] Nina Endrst: mean, and she was probably very cool. Like that's me. I would've been like, that's so cool. Like Nina's mom is so cool. You know,

[00:11:21] Anna Toonk: I think everything, all of my friends thought she was so cool. She would do Reiki on people at the coffee shop and I'd be like, you're so embarrassing.

and, and yeah. And everyone thought she was cool. She would let us smoke pot at the house and like hand us matches through the door, like, you know, to light the, whatever responsibly, of course. But I was self-conscious about that. And then I was self-conscious about my body because it was, I went through puberty really a early, uh, at like nine or 10.

And so it was just really uncomfortable for me. And, you know, things changed. People looked at me differently. People commented, you know, it was like a whole thing, so that I was self conscious about. And as I aged, you know, what's really helped me is teaching obviously, because get there's nothing to like, knock.

That out of you, you know, a little bit as far as like where my body is in space and people staring at me when I get up and teach a class, it's like, it's me, it's my body. It's my voice. It's, you know, it's everything right there, front and center.

[00:12:43] Nina Endrst: I'd be curious because I'm not, I wanna word this carefully because I don't think the, how do you think being in a commonly accepted body, like, do you think it made it easier for you to get over your self-conscious that you were like. Okay, well, technically I'm in a body that most of society regards is totally fine, you know, like, yeah, you, so it's now it's what is my story that I have to get over as a teacher?

You know, like

[00:13:15] Anna Toonk: I, yeah. I mean, obviously I'm in a very widely accepted body, you know, I have like a sample sale body. I know that. Yeah. Like, so I never, but I mean, that being said, I've really, I was talking to Tim way about this the other day. I'm like, I think I have some like weird body issues that I just am coming to kind of terms with, because I will watch videos back of me and.

I remember, you know, while I'm recording or something feeling like self-conscious about a certain part of me. And then I'll look at the video and be like, what are you imagining? Like, that's very,

[00:13:56] Nina Endrst: oh, very strange. I mean, I think, you know, like body dysmorphia knows, knows no limit, you know, of course I don't don't think that's it comes for everyone.

Yeah.

[00:14:05] Anna Toonk: I, I think mine, you know, is just very, was very surprising to me because I come in such a kind of like mm-hmm, , you know, acceptable, like celebrated body size, right? Mm-hmm it's to me, it's kind of weird and this feels like, I feel so off conscious about saying this, but women don't, I don't feel like women are like very.

Warm to me up front sometimes. And so when I do teach a class, I'm very, self-conscious about that. I think people a lot of times, because I don't wear like a, a really smiley smile. I, and I, I have a bit of like a, I don't wanna say fierce, but I think I have like a strong face. And so I think people are not sure if I'm gonna be like a bitch or not.

[00:14:57] Nina Endrst: Yeah. I mean, we've talked about this, like how I think people misread you all the time. Yeah.

[00:15:03] Anna Toonk: So I feel self-conscious about that. And I have for my whole life, because I, people misread me. Right. They think I'm going to be, they think I'm a Lou or they think I'm bitchy or, or whatever. And I'm actually just not, I just don't look like that or I don't, that's just not my personality.

So, but yeah, the body stuff has surprised me in aging. I feel pretty good about that. Although, there, there are points when I surprise myself too. As far as like little things that pop up that I'm like, oh, what was that? What's that I don't, how do I get rid of that wrinkle without getting Botox? Cause I'm just not personally into freezing my face, but no judgment, but like topical things like that emotionally, I'm very, self-conscious about asking for support and what that means about me and what that means about, you know, to, to friends or to, you know, whoever just saying how I actually am doing is hard is I'm really self conscious about that.

Like getting it out there.

[00:16:09] Nina Endrst: I feel like I can be self conscious, so is about business. And I feel sometimes like, Anybody who went to maybe a traditional college or, I mean, God helped me if they actually have an MBA, I feel like I get so self conscious that I start to sound like just an idiot and be like, oh, well you Mr.

Business Mo you know, like, cuz I'm so like Tim dated sometimes and have to remind myself, like they just have vocabulary and they just have like more in depth study, you know? Like, why are you losing your mind right now? You know, like, yeah,

[00:16:57] Anna Toonk: I, a friend of ours who was just here, she's an amazing photo prefer.

And like just someone who is very educated, very well traveled, very smart, extensive vocabulary, knows a lot about a lot, you know, mm-hmm and I find myself now just relaxing around her, but at the beginning, I would feel like I was like, what are you saying? Like you're mm. Why? I just would lose like, all sense of time and space.

And, and I would feel really, self-conscious like, oh, she's, she's going to be judging what I'm saying. And it's not, it's not smart enough. It's not, you know? Yeah, yeah. I've traveled a lot, but, but I don't know enough about, you know, the history, the politics, the, you know, she's like on the boots on the ground, in all of these places and yeah.

And so I totally feel that. And I think we've talked about this a lot on, on here, you know, feeling like I wasn't and smart in certain. Years and areas of my life. You know, now I'm, I'm, I'm still struggling with that, but I feel way more in my lane and it's just natural. Like, I don't wanna be sitting in a board room with, you know, Harvard grads in, you know, to some, in some like financial kind of institution.

So I don't need to really worry about that.

[00:18:25] Nina Endrst: Yeah, I think sometimes I just like overly pedestal it, you know, and I have to remind myself, they're just people who made different choices. Like they're not better than me, you know, and to meet it with curiosity, like I went out to dinner Friday and someone's boyfriend is from Zimbabwe and was talking about kind of growing up with civil war in Africa.

And we were talking about the Ukraine and sort of, you know, like how did he feel about the media coverage and stuff like that. And it was really interesting how different people at the table sort of like handled and contributed to the conversation. And there was one person that clearly I think was struggling that weren't super knowledgeable.

And I was like, this is so fascinating that rather than just being like, oh, I'm not educated about this or just listening, you know, they had to keep redirecting the conversation to their lack of knowledge, you know? So

[00:19:21] Anna Toonk: they kept saying, I don't know about that.

[00:19:23] Nina Endrst: Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh, I'm just not that familiar with, you know, African politics or, you know, spec I'm, I'm definitely not out, you know, like I'm, I'm definitely not familiar with the history of Zimbabwe, but like, I'm not that, you know, and I was like, I don't know if this is a racing or if they're kind of like, you know, white privileging out that they're like shame, spiraling that they haven't paid attention to the history of Africa.

And I'm like, I only know about this cuz I went to school in England and I was friends with kids whose families were in Africa, uh, uh, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, South Africa, a couple countries directly fed into my high school. So it's not like, um, so you know, Coon that I'm reading, you know, like now I will, I'll seek out more knowledge, but a lot of what I was referring to was just stuff I had been, I've been familiar with since I was essentially like 13 years old, you know, like I was kind of introduced into knowing people from these places, which is always a great way to.

You know, be more interested, your, your friends from there, you know, but I was like, this is a fascinating way to be dealing with your discomfort. You know, like my way I would go, wow. I don't know about any of this. This is fascinating. And then I would stop talking, you know, I wouldn't. Keep being like, it was almost, do you ever find that like in a group setting, if, if you can remember those, what are those?

I was literally like, what, what, cause it's, it's been a minute. Like I find it interesting when the person keeps basically saying like, you know, like, I don't know about this. I don't know about this. I Don know about that. We're like, we know, like we heard you, we heard you the first time. Yeah. And it's not like we were going around and everyone has to take a turn.

Like it was just literally a conversation, you know, maybe they

[00:21:16] Anna Toonk: suffer from my around the world, you know,

[00:21:19] Nina Endrst: syndrome. little. Do we know they have been trigger? Did you trouble

[00:21:25] Anna Toonk: with around the world? Did you? I'm just, I just wanna put that out there. Was that a problem for you growing up?

[00:21:32] Nina Endrst: a quick question.

[00:21:33] Anna Toonk: I saw a post the other day from someone about.

Ukraine. And they were saying how, you know, they're not gonna post because they're not educated. But then I just, I understand the sentiment. Like I get that and appreciate what they were saying because you know, and it's their right to say, but I just thought it was so entry. But instead of just not saying anything, they had to say why they weren't saying anything and then,

[00:22:05] Nina Endrst: well, that's call out culture.

[00:22:08] Anna Toonk: It's. Yeah, it is. But it's also like, that's the self consciousness, you know, you and I, and I understand that like feeling the pressure to do it and do something that everybody, you know, around you is doing, but that felt to me like, oh, I, I feel for that person because it's not, you know, you kind of have to like, look at yourself in the mirror every day and be like, am I.

Doing a good job. Am I, do I feel like I could learn about this? If I don't know, maybe I should look it up, you know, obviously you're not gonna become an expert on relations of any kind overnight, nor should you, but you can kind of just listen or educate yourself. And that goes for all of us, right?

[00:22:57] Nina Endrst: Yeah. I actually don't have a problem with people cuz I think that we've like social media has made everyone think that they're like reporters on the streets.

And I do think it's helpful that people are putting out this message. Like you're not. Like not everyone needs to have a soundbite about everything, you know? Totally. And it is good to say where I think you fall kind of, of like, I don't know anything, but I support humanitarian crisis, you know, like that's where, but again, like a lot of people who I admire have been writing about like social media has made us lose all nuance.

And like, this is where, like the lack of nuance in social media, like doesn't serve anyone. Yeah. You know that we should be able to say like, Support the people of the Ukraine like find the links, you know, like da, da, da, da, da. But like, yeah, I do think people put this pressure, like, you know, some friends of mine who I think would like to build maybe their social followings, but they're not famous.

They're just, people are like, ah, I really need to say something about the Ukraine. I'm like, you're right girl. Like I, Instagram really is waiting for your hot take , you know, and I'm not trying to be a total bitch, but I'm also like, this is how crazy we've gotten about this stuff. You know, that I prefer the people who say I'm not, not talking about it because I'm ignoring it.

I'm not talking about it because I I'm educated. You know, like I think is helpful because remember too, during the summer of 2020, during the, um, after George Floyd's murder and the riots and everything. All the white people were going around policing the other white people. Mm-hmm and being like white silence is violence and stuff.

So I think it's also a bit of like this over correction now that like, everyone wants to accuse every, everyone of like silence as violence, you know? And it's like, oh my God. Sometimes two were just not the fucking you in. We shouldn't be weighing in on it.

[00:25:11] Anna Toonk: Well, I just found it really interesting and like a good example of how social media like, can make us feel. I mean, I don't know what this person was feeling, but I do know what's very obvious about these platforms and it's just like this pressurized space mm-hmm and where everybody's kind of copycatting or jumping on, you know?

And it's not a bad thing to be supporting, obviously, because yeah. Clearly, but I just found it so fascinating that they felt like that was something and, and maybe they didn't feel like it was something they had to do. I just thought I just took a step and was like, huh, that's an interesting

choice.

[00:25:55] Nina Endrst: Yeah.

I get self-conscious sometimes about talking about what I'm doing that I think is actually like positive on my social media, because I don't want people to think that I'm like virtue signaling or wanting like credit or something. You know, I get self-conscious about that. And like, I think self-promotion, and I'm like, well, how else?

Like, are people gonna know? You know, like, and I have to challenge myself on that, cuz I think you're kind of good about self promotion in the sense of just. Not overthinking it. And just being like, here it is, or this is what I'm doing. I literally

[00:26:35] Anna Toonk: hate it so much. Yeah. And I have to do give myself a pep talk every time I do it.

And I mean, I do you, cause I feel

[00:26:43] Nina Endrst: like you're so like immediate

[00:26:44] Anna Toonk: about it. Well, think about it. I mean, I deleted Instagram for like a year, like yeah. I hated it so much because I was like, what am I doing? I'm just like promoting myself here. Like, it just doesn't feel good anymore. But then when I turned souls, Instagram into mine, because I wanted a space for like, you know, people here to connect and whatever, just to keep tabs.

I was like, like today, for instance, I really felt like I haven't put, stood any sessions or anything in years, like years. And I'm like, I, I opened up two sessions in April. I like, I would just like to offer it. And if anybody, you know, On Instagram, like sees it. Like, I just felt like I wanted to do it, but I sat down and was like, oh, this feels weird.

I hate this so much. And then, and then I just wrote it and like, didn't feel weird about it once it was out there, but I I'm very self conscious about that because I don't want it to be like, hi, so savior here. Um, if you need a session, like I got you, like, like I am here to deliver spirits message to you and that's my shit.

Like it's the work that I do. I mean, not delivering spirits message, but you know, I don't say that. But reading Tara and guidance with Tara is, is what I do. So the fact that I need to be able to talk about that like, but it's, I totally feel

[00:28:04] Nina Endrst: you. That's what to say. What is the difference between just communication and saying, if you're interested or wanna work with me, this is it versus self promotion, you know?

Like what is like, I think it's like the salesy, what

[00:28:19] Anna Toonk: is the difference? I think it's like the pushy nest. I mean, that's just me. Yeah. You

[00:28:23] Nina Endrst: know, like, or the repetition

[00:28:24] Anna Toonk: maybe like, yeah. Petition does me, does me dirty. I don't, I can't handle that, but I'm, but I'm also like, okay, like I'm really trying so hard, not to be a judgemental person, which is really fucking harm you guys, but it's not helpful.

It's yucky. And can you tell, I hang out with a four year old all day, like do yucky yucky, but something just, I mean, this is like switching gears, but I was telling you before something just happened with. A family member who was here, their, you know, like I think they grew up, I'm not gonna like say who they are because I wanna respect their privacy.

But their, I think they grew up with a father who was very overbearing and critical and, you know, had an idea of sensitivity as weakness and all this stuff. So they were talking to my husband and they were describing someone and they described an Asian person as, you know, asexual and nerdy. And my husband was like, Hey, that's, you know, those are microaggressions.

Those are really, you know, offensive or however he worded it very eloquently. And I think at first my family member was like very self conscious, obviously, because when someone. Calls you out about something like that. Even in the kindest way, my husband couldn't be kinder. I'm like, hi, you're fucking racist.

And which is not my yeah.

[00:29:58] Nina Endrst: Job. I literally could not be kinder in ways like. Really incredible like diplomacy.

[00:30:06] Anna Toonk: Oh God. He's so annoyingly good at it.

[00:30:10] Nina Endrst: God. Yeah. Like he can say big things in a very neutral, calm way and kind of across the board. I heard him say it just like in conversation about like things, you know, like a topic and, and directly about something specific, you know, like he's, he's masterful at it.

[00:30:28] Anna Toonk: He really is. And I am not. But, you know, he said it and I think what was ended up being really helpful about it was once the uncomfortable nature of the conversation, you know, settled a little bit and the self consciousness, you know, dialed down a bit. They were able to see that like, oh, I needed to learn that.

And I'm glad I learned it. And now I know it and I can carry on knowing something I didn't know. And that makes all of us better. But if we're just constantly in this space of like, am I doing it wrong? Am I doing it wrong? And I think, especially when we're connecting with people of a different race or background, we're very hesitant to, to ask questions or to listen or to not know everything.

And it it's so unhelpful.

[00:31:18] Nina Endrst: Yeah. I think a form of the worst self consciousness is when you have made a mistake and then are there therefore terrified of making another one. I don't know if we've also been on the receiving end of this. But I remember once when I was working in TV, we were literally working on the graphics package for the Dr.

Oz show. And it wa yeah, it was a enormous unmitigated disaster on our end. And we were the disaster. We made spelling error, like, but it was like, we were working though with this woman who was evil in a terrible person. And I'm, I almost named her cuz I just don't give a fuck, cuz I'm like, you have no power over me anymore.

You terrible person. But she would just, I mean, like even a basic thing or something that I feel like, you know, when you're giving people hundred of elements like mistakes happen, we're not machines. I'm sorry. I think people have unrealistic standards for perfection, but she would just like. Ring you and like want money, you know, she was just horrible.

So everybody was already working with this fear of like, oh shit, you know, like she's been okay, but we know this person can be terrible. So then like the first mistake happened and she was like, not cool about it. And then everyone was like more afraid and then it just became like, Like a comedy. It was like unreal.

Like I was like in some meeting when something else had happened. And I like, remember reading the email of like what had been like, what, you know, had been whatever had happened and was just like, of course, of course we've never made this mistake before and have made it for this bitch. Like, of course, you know, and that's some thing I try to avoid now of just like telling myself, like you're allowed to make mistakes, just like apologize or what, you know, like things are going to happen because I find that that fear can be so paralyzing and it like cloud your judgment.

It it's almost like self-fulfilling prophecy. I feel like, you know, When you're so afraid or you're like, you know, I'm interacting with someone different than me, or I wanna be sensitive. Like I know for me trying to be really sensitive to people's like pronouns and stuff. Like at first that made me a real creep and I was just like, if you make a mistake, just apologize and then move on.

That's it? You know? And like most people, people, if you, you know, read about that of like, if they're misgendered or like they're just apologizing, acknowledge it, move on.

[00:33:57] Anna Toonk: What do you think contributes most to people's self consciousness? Do you think? Or what are some of the factors like how much nature nurture life

[00:34:08] Nina Endrst: aging. You know, it's funny. My, my mom is very self conscious and, and, and talks about it now. And it's interesting. And she's been able to sort of unpack, I think it's criticism.

I think criticism, if you're heavily criticized or you have internal, a very active, critical voice, it's like, you're always telling yourself, like, or pointing out all the ways that you could be like perceived, I think negatively, that then makes you hyper aware of how you're operating. So mm-hmm, , I think criticism is a big thing and maybe anxiety.

I think when my anxiety was super high, I, my self consciousness was also super high. Like you have to like remind yourself, like I would constantly have to remind myself when I felt really self-conscious like, I don't love to go to. Social things alone. Like I don't love to go to a party alone. I don't love, you know, and I would have to like remind myself, like nobody knows how you feel.

No one knows you're uncomfortable right now. Like, cause I found like sometimes if I would give into it too much, then I would become like a robot and be like good evening, good people, you know, like I would become this creep, you know? So that was the way I would sell soon to try to not cause then I would also be a, like you're being a fucking creep stop, stop.

And then I would be like, you know, one of my besties, Megan and I have a joke about like, I wasn't even there when this happened to her and she was at a diner and I believe maybe she was stoned, sorry, Megan, if you don't want me to tell that to people. And she said to the waitress, like, what is the function of your rubber band like that she had around her and.

So we still to this day say that, like, what is the function of, you know, and when I'm super self conscious, like, I feel like I've become this like creepy, amazing robot and sad for me. And then, you know, you're, you're saying like, don't be a, or like, I know also when I'm really nervous, you know, I'll talk a lot and I'm stop talking.

And I'm like, so when I was three, you know, and I'm like, stop, you know, that I've had to learn, like, if you don't want people to know you're nervous or uncomfortable or self conscious, like there are these ways that we. Tell on ourselves and I've learned like, don't let the robot out best you can. Don't let blink, you know, talk, talk hackathon, like these different ways.

I just have to remind myself, like, nobody knows the way you feel like it's okay. You can take care of yourself, take a deep breath, like remind yourself. Other people are probably nervous here, or you're gonna see your friends in a second and feel fine. You know, like I have to do that. So I don't become, cause I, I usually can deal with myself better if I know.

I'm being myself then, like if I walk into a room and everyone ends up, like hating me, I'm like, whatever their loss, you know, if I know I showed up as myself, if I show up as the creepy robot, I'm like, fair, fair that you didn't like me. I want them

[00:37:21] Anna Toonk: to know that's not me. I am human. Me human. Yeah. Totally.

And they that's great advice. I didn't think I ever felt self-conscious or in social situations ever. I never would've per like thought of myself as that. And then I realized I just drank a lot. Yeah. And left the party Uhhuh, like, and just spent all the whole time outside. I'm like, perhaps you were a little uncomfortable, you know?

Oh yeah. Maybe you just weren't, you know what, why were you isolating? Why were you drinking so much? And yeah, because it just has always felt a natural. The other thing I do is, or I did, I don't do anymore. Is I, and a friend of mine, I think, used to do this too, when she was, you know, single in the city and you'd go like, see your friends and they'd be like, dance, dance.

Tell us

[00:38:15] Nina Endrst: this is such a specific, I mean, maybe it's a, maybe I, maybe it is women specific. I don't Uhhuh. Yes. I wanna see where you go with this. Cause I feel like I've been there. Yeah. You're like,

[00:38:27] Anna Toonk: well, in this, in the wild wild west kitty, sit down, I'm gonna tell you a tall tale. Like this is what happens in Manhattan.

And then I'll be like, what? Wow. and you know, some of it would be really self deprecating and just blowing things into like my, my Gemini rising loves a good like story. So really kind of playing that up. And I realized that so much of what I was playing up was because I was self conscious about. The fact that I was in the room with all these, like very quote unquote normal, you know, centered, like not centered is the wrong word, like rooted in their relationship at a house, you know, like type of way.

And I was like, okay. So I guess I'll just play the, the messy one. And I just went for it, but it was because I was self-conscious and I honestly, truly did not that did not register for a long time. For me. I always felt like sad when I would leave my friends that way. And I would just be like, that's not who I am.

I mean, it's part of who I am. And yeah, it is funny that I had sex with that model and he was a to little du and, you know, whatever. Yeah. But is that like my life? No,

[00:39:43] Nina Endrst: it's not. Yeah. I remember when my therapist pointed out to me, she was like, well, you like, well, you did the Anna show or something. And I was like, What, you know, like I appear to be, I appear to be the star of this unfamiliar up.

[00:39:58] Anna Toonk: What did you say?

[00:40:00] Nina Endrst: yeah. And she was like, well, you perform. And I was like, what? You know, like, and she was like, yeah, I think you perform. I think it's a way that, you know, you cover up dis comfort and you just, and like all this stuff and exact same thing, I would come in and play up, like the, either how much I was working and how poorly I was taking care of myself or what a mess my dating life was, or, you know, how much I'd partied or what, but it totally totally self consciousness about where I felt.

I felt, I think in adulthood, You know, of some sort of discomfort about where I was falling, I think socially or something that, oh yeah. Very much. I mean, I do think self consciousness can sometimes, you know, create some beautiful performances from us, all that are entertaining, but yeah, man, when you leave, when you get into that or oops, like you're like, I do not like myself a whole lot right now that felt bad, you know?

Yeah. Because it's essentially a performance born out of insecurity. Like that's never gonna be super cool.

[00:41:17] Anna Toonk: No, and it's not. And then you build these false connections. Mm-hmm and,

[00:41:23] Nina Endrst: and that sucks. It does suck cuz it's like these people you've gone to be with and spend time with, I mean, let's assume you don't hate 'em let's assume they're genuine friends and you know, maybe there's some tensions, but let's just assume they're friends and you're like, I.

Just gave them this totally like fake version of me. Like how can that foster any connection? You know, like these are my friends, like, what am

[00:41:51] Anna Toonk: I doing? What do you think you're most insecure about at this time that people would be surprised about? Or you are surprised

[00:42:01] Nina Endrst: about I have mild career self consciousness, but I have mild self consciousness.

I think I have more defensiveness of I'm like, I'm rolling with it. I'm figuring it out. I don't totally know what the path of my career is this moment. You know, I think I I've, I think I've wrestled with that enough that I'm not self conscious, but I think I was, I felt a bit like I was having a long midlife crisis.

I think I'm self conscious about not being married, to be honest, that. Like I we're, I, yeah, I would say, I mean, I think I use the word Tinder, but I think in this context, I'm, self-conscious because I get why I'm not, but I'm definitely hyper aware or like, you know, if people are like, I'm surprised, I'm like, yeah, me too.

But then I did all these little, you know, like I become the chatty robot. Like I just become, you know, like I th there's something there that I think I'm still working out, you know, that it's definitely more of a societal thing than it is, I think a personal, but I would be lying if I said I, I wasn't self conscious about it.

I'm really

[00:43:15] Anna Toonk: surprised to hear you say that. Yeah. But happy to hear that you, you know, can say that. Can, you know? Yeah. Cause I feel like when we, when we can. I mean, not always, but I think there's kind of an interesting path from that to like, I must really want to change something about it. Right. Or I must want it in some way if I, if I care.

[00:43:41] Nina Endrst: Yeah. Well, I, I think for, for me, it's like, uh, I think I just assumed it would always happen and I didn't need to sweat it that much. And now I'm feeling like I said to my, my friend, Megan, the other weekend, we got to hang out and I said, I feel like the grasshopper who played the, the fiddle while the ants worked and, and stored for the winter, that I just always thought, I'd figure it out.

I'd work it out. And now I'm like, oh, that didn't happen. I think I'm more self conscious maybe about. Figuring I made choices that I don't think I fully recognized as choices when I was younger that I think I'm paying for now. Mm. And I may self conscious about that cuz I'm processing it. I think, yeah. I don't even know that it's about marriage necessary.

It's like about this. Isn't where I thought I would be. And I'm not sure how I feel about that yet and how

[00:44:36] Anna Toonk: I got here. Yeah.

[00:44:38] Nina Endrst: Yeah. I get that. Like it's not a huge lack or it's not a huge, like I don't think I'm self-conscious in other ways of like, I don't think being married would change my value as a person, you know, like it's not, I think sort of like the garden variety, self consciousness or insecurity maybe, but it's something.

Yeah, it's something. I have a, you know, a sensitivity and, and people like around fertility kind of can't like win with me right now. Like if my mom's like, well, you're not gonna give me grandchildren. I'm like, relax, Jesus. You know? And she's like, I thought that was being supportive, you know? Like, so there's definitely, you know, like some tender wrong answer.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, and God bless her. She's like, I don't know. I thought I was letting you off the hook, you know, like, I mean, it's fair. She can't win. So yeah, no, I get that. There's stuff there where I think sometimes I'm self conscious about things in my life. If I like it takes me a while to process and it takes me a while, wherever I'm gonna kind of arrive to net out there.

And I think I can be a little self conscious until I've netted out because I don't love to be defense. And until you've sort of processed, I think you can be a bit defensive. And I think I don't like that right now. About some of that stuff. I'm a little more unsettled than I maybe was prior.

[00:46:03] Anna Toonk: Hmm. I really respect how you process things.

I think it's very interesting and also very thorough. I've said that to you

[00:46:09] Nina Endrst: before. Oh yeah. It's I mean, very thorough. It's been a process for me to, to honor and figure it out, you know, like I kept being like, well, cuz for me it was moving my feelings from always intellectualizing to embodying. And I learned in that process, it takes me a long time, you know, like until everything kind of clicks into place and I'm like, this is how I feel.

This is what it means. This is what I'm gonna do. Here's how it, you know, changes the course I'm charting now, you know, it just takes a while for me. And now I'm I accept it. But what are you self-conscious

[00:46:46] Anna Toonk: about I was like, I wonder if she's gonna ask me the same

[00:46:50] Nina Endrst: question? Of course. Yeah. I'm like, that was, yeah, sometimes I'm

[00:46:54] Anna Toonk: self conscious about how much I like being married which I think is so weird to say, but.

I'm like, is this, I almost like don't want it to mean and not, not like so much. I can see that, but I'm very independent. Yeah. And I've always been very independent and I have, my life has expanded so much since I married him and I've felt so much more confident and my decisions and just, it's such an anchor, like our family for me.

And sometimes I feel like self-conscious about, you know, that part of me slipping away and there's, that's one like minor thing. I don't think it's like a huge one, but other than that, I think weirdly money stuff, just because I had have healed so much with it, but I used to be so, so, so, so, so, so terrible with money.

And my mom would always be like, Just remember, like one day you're gonna wanna buy a house. And I was such an arrogant, you know, 20 something. And I was like, mom, I'm not gonna buy a house. Like, I'm gonna like be free forever. Mom. okay. I'm a renter mom. You don't understand mom. And now I'm like, I really wanna buy a house mom yeah.

So I've had, and you know, in the past couple, well, it's been a while now, since I've really turned that around and looked at the energy of money and how I, you know, earn it and use it and think of it. But I'm definitely at this point in my life and, and a per a person, I used to be friends with really triggered that for me a couple weeks ago, because I was talking to her on the phone and telling them, you know, we live in an amazing place and we're so lucky to be able to rent it.

And it, I mean, I just couldn't be like more grateful for it and we wanna move out of the area and we wanna buy a house. And so we're looking at houses and she said to me, so when did you decide you wanted to buy a house? Like really judgey. And she knew me, you know, back in the day. And I was like, I mean, I'm almost 40 years old.

Like, did you , did you think I was gonna just live out of a bag forever? And if I did, that would be my choice and I would, you know, be happy with it, but that's, it just felt that made me self conscious. Like she owns a bunch of different houses is and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I wasn't embarrassed, but I just felt like.

Yeah. I guess if you took care of your stuff before you would maybe be able to buy the house you wanted to a couple years ago. I mean, I realized that that's not, that wasn't the path for us and that wasn't supposed to be like, we were meant to be here, but that's something for sure, like not having it all together and not knowing all the answers somehow before you know them

[00:50:04] Nina Endrst: Yeah. I think it's interesting, like in hearing you and think about it, I'm like, I wonder if what we're self conscious about is, well, so often it's, you know, like when someone's like, I just really like you and you're like, when you really get to know me, you won't, you know, if you've ever had that feeling.

Oh, just me anyway. you know, and I like you more with every passing day. likewise, likewise. I think like. When I think about myself and hearing you talk about your thing, it's like, I'm maybe not self conscious that I'm not married. I think I'm self conscious about the stuff I've had to learn at what I feel is a late age that would set me up for that kind of partnership.

Like I started to realize older, like I, I don't know how to repair relationships like that is something I had to learn to do, you know? And what I'm hearing with you is like, You know, we thought we knew what decisions we were making as youths. You know, I was like, I'm independent, I'm career focused. I'm not focused on relationships and da, da, da, da, da.

You're like I rent, I'm not concerned. I'm gonna be a Nova, you know, like with putting down roots. And then it's like, is this selfconsciousness when you get older? And you're like, oh yeah, about them. My, uh, stance has changed. And I see how I may have miscalculated in the past, you know, the record. Uh,

[00:51:32] Anna Toonk: I'm actually not a nomad.

I'm a homebody and that's

[00:51:36] Nina Endrst: very different. I'm like, I've learned during these, uh, two years of a pandemic that comes in handy. When you have a partner, like,

[00:51:48] Anna Toonk: have you guys heard of them?

[00:51:50] Nina Endrst: I'm like, aha, aha. Now seeing some of these others. Sides. I was a little more focused on those stats that unmarried women, uh, live happier, longer lives.

But now I am seeing some other stats that, um, I should pay attention to. Oh man. I think it's a good lesson for all of us to remember that, like, it's not necessarily, we made the wrong decisions. We shouldn't be ashamed or whatever. It's like your values change. You know, like every time I'm at my mom's place, I text you and say, I want a house, you know, like every time.

And yet I forget when I'm back in my apartment. Not really. I never forget that the house fire has been earning in me now for a little bit , but I also know what I need to do to be like, prepared for that responsibility and to even really start thinking about it, you know, like my values have changed. Like I said to you, like part of what's catch catching me off guard about some of the, like, where to live type of stuff is that I was that die hard person.

It was like New York or nowhere. It's the only place for me. I feed off the energy, da da, da, da, and then. I was walking my, my beloved L's R I P. And she turned to me and had a mouthful spaghetti. And I was like, where the fuck did you give spaghetti? And I, and these, and I'm trying to like wrestle spaghetti out of her mouth.

Cause I'm like, you're diabetic. You can't have carbs like that. You know, and tourist her around me and stuff. And I was like, I. It has to be easier than this. Like it can't like just trying to walk your dog shouldn't and can't be this hard, you know? And it's like, things change. I'm older. I don't have the same patients or like, I don't need every time I leave the house to like, be this like funny adventure.

Sometimes I just wanna walk about God, Anna.

[00:53:38] Anna Toonk: I literally thought of about this while I was getting in my car after a training the other day. And I was so hot and I couldn't get like my coat off fast enough and threw it on the, on the seat next to me. And I was like, LOL, or remember the times in the city when I would just be like sweating and then I'd get on the fucking train or whatever.

And I'd like, have to climb up. I have floor walk up and like, you know, take, I couldn't get my jacket off. And I'd be like, you know, I was so much clumsier somehow because it was just like, things were harder and I'm not saying, but I felt the same way. I thought it was going to be New York forever. I couldn't understand how I would be anywhere else.

And. I also feel self-conscious that I was so narrow minded, like when I was younger because, and arrogant, because , it's like, no, you don't know everything. And I think I have to try really hard. I mean, I can't really talk to that age group for many reasons, but talking to like young 20 somethings, it's like, there's beautiful, you know, kind of glimmer in their eye.

Although maybe not so much now that they're going through all the shit they're going through, but it's like, you're like, oh, I, I know everything. it's I know everything and nothing, and it's fine, but I want so badly to be like, you don't know it's okay.

[00:54:56] Nina Endrst: Yeah. It's okay. And that's, and that's fine. I think give yourself permission to change and to evolve and, you know, like, and I do think something to be aware of is.

If every time you're telling somebody your news or what you're up to, and they make you feel self conscious, that's worth looking at, you know, like what's up there, are you, you know, like, are you making them your mommy? Are you, you know, like, are you going to them and hoping they'll sort of give you the bad news, you know, like what's the dynamic or are they critical?

You know? Like, do they make you sort of defend your stuff? You know? But the more aware I've been of eliminating relationships or resetting boundaries with people that I like made me really self conscious, like. It's been really helpful for me. I, I had to learn that, like, it, it felt like too easy to just have like supportive people in my life.

I was like, that will make me weak and soft, you know? And it's like, yeah. And being soft is how you will create and do more and be more yourself and vulnerable. Like, you know, like, yes, it, doesn't not, everything has to be hard or critical or mean, or, you know, so I think if, if you feel a lot of self consciousness, like it, it's not because there's anything wrong with you.

There's some reason why though you are constantly fixating on that though.

[00:56:37] Anna Toonk: Yeah. I would offer to, you know, When those moments surface, and you can feel it just kind of like take a little note, mental note, or even take out your phone and take a note of where it exists and where you feel it. And you know, like a couple words is enough, so you can maybe even reflect on it later, excuse yourself, you know, go to the bathroom or just like take a beat somewhere where if you're with people that you can kind of recenter yourself, and I'm always a big, you know, proponent of sending energy back, whether that's just something you picked up on the street, or if somebody's like, you know what this friend old friend was doing to me was just projecting her own shit onto me of like, you're not allowed to change because I haven't really changed.

And that's just not an, that's not a friendship I wanna be in. That's not the agreement I had to send her. That back with compassion because people aren't, you know, intentionally terrible. Yeah. I'd like to think some people are, I, we hope, but most people aren't intentionally trying to hurt you or be, you know, mean, but, and, and make you feel a way.

And that's another thing that I have realized is nobody can make you feel anything. So if you have that power and you remind yourself that you have that power, it's not that your feelings don't get hurt or you're not triggered by, or et cetera, but nobody can make

[00:58:10] Nina Endrst: you anything. Oh, it's so rude that you've been talking to my therapist again.

cause it's so fucking rude. We talked about it. It's so rude because there are godliness out there that make me feel some kind of way. And they not Anna feel that way. now, now Christina, and I argue, we I'll be like, I know you think I'm making it up. She's like, hold on. I don't think you're making it up now.

You've gone to some dramatic place. But I would say also like, you know, like hearing what you were saying about the old friend, I'm like, it can be helpful sometimes for me too, to ask myself, how does this person benefit from me? Like doubting myself. Mm.

[00:58:52] Anna Toonk: Or that makes me wanna take off my top. Anna

[00:58:55] Nina Endrst: that's.

But like what, how do they benefit? How do they benefit by me? You know? Cuz like often I think when selfconsciousness fires, it distract us. Let's use you in this example. Excuse me. Like when you said, oh, we're thinking about buying a house, it's like the second she was like, oh, and started all that. You were self conscious and thinking and like your attention was diverted from the topic to all of that processing.

And so when that happens, I ask myself, how does this person benefit from that? And often it's like, well, then they can feel. More adult because they already own a home and, and or whatever, like our social pecking order doesn't change, you know, or whatever, you know, like, and who knows if I'm right or wrong, but it helps me to remember there's a lot of possible answers for things beyond just like I'm bad or like, whatever, like whatever message is coming up for me, by someone making me feel self-conscious.

Trying to

[01:00:00] Anna Toonk: make you feel self conscious

attempting to make, oh, I'm sorry. Projecting. That's a, I like to, I'd like to end there because I think it's, you know, I get to be right. You get to be brilliant. It's everybody wins. Everybody wins. Uh, okay. We did it have a beautiful day. Everyone will. Talk to you next time.

That's all for today's episode.

[01:00:33] Nina Endrst: If you're interested in submitting a topic or want to submit a question for our advice episode, please join our membership community@howtobehumanpod.com. Thanks for listening. And remember we're guides not go.