It was no flight to get there that night from here to Connecticut. I flew out the first flight the next morning and by the time I landed he passed away.

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that bro.

Okay, and think about the guilt when I walked into the hospital and I saw him laying on that bed. And I cried like a baby. And you know what I was saying? I'm sorry. Right. I'm sorry. Right? And nobody wants to deal with that. Nobody. We'll discuss race and how it plays a factor. And how we didn't even talk about this topic. Because we were afraid. A black

executive perspective.

We are coming to you live from the new BEP studio for another thought provoking episode of a black executive perspective podcast, a safe space where we discuss all matters related to race, especially race in corporate America. I'm your host, Tony Tidbit. So before we get into our new topic today, I want to give a friendly reminder to everyone to please check out our partners at CodeMMagazine. com, whose mission is saving the black family by first saving the black man. Check them out at CodeMMagazine. com. That is Code M Magazine. dot com to M's. Definitely check them out. They're awesome. And then you want to check out what we're going to do and talk about today. So we have the president of CODE M Magazine, who's going to appear today on a black executive perspective podcast to dissect his compelling article, surviving the loss of a living child. We will explore the emotional landscape faced by parents estranged from their adult children, delving into the causes, consequences, and coping strategies for such complex family dynamics. So the president of Code M Magazine, Brad Bowling, welcome to a Black Executive Perspective Podcast, my brother.

Thank you, Tony. And I want to say congratulations on your one year anniversary. I want to say congratulations on, uh, creating your own studio. It looks fantastic, brother. So congratulations to you and your team.

Well, look, buddy, thank you, man. But more importantly, thank you and your partnership. I mean, we, we, you know, uh, how should I say? We came together at the seams. Um, about four or five months ago. And since that timeframe, buddy, we've seen both of our platforms really thrive. I mean, look, let's be fair. CODE M Magazine has been doing great things for a number of years. You guys are, you know, known as the, the new, uh, Ebony, you know, the new essence, you know, you guys are taking it to the next level, especially as we talked about earlier, your mission is saving the black family by first saving a black man. So we're very excited to partner with you guys because obviously we're Both, you know, our missions are the same where we're both trying to share stories. We're both trying to educate and more importantly, we're trying to uplift our communities. So I really thank you and appreciate your partnership, my brother. Absolutely,

bro.

And here, and that's why we have you on today, my man. You know, um, the article that you wrote, you know, and listen, as being a subscriber to Code M magazine, you know, um, you have some very hard hitting articles and then you have articles and, and topics about mental health and fitness and, you know, Hey, do you want how to date a boss, babe? And now you're delving into stuff that typically, you know, we don't really talk about a lot, right. The lost of a living child. So, you know, are you ready to talk about this, my brother? Let's go. All right, man. So I want to dive into it. Um, because, you know, when I read the article and you and I talked about You know, uh, coming on, I want you to come on to discuss it. It really hit home with me, but some of the statistics and stuff that you, you know, you articulate in the article was mind blowing, right? So we definitely going to get into all those things. But the first question I want to ask you, my brother, why did you write this article?

So, you know, black people across the country, uh, and around the world, we have the same lives as everybody else. And one of the things that's happening is I'm starting to notice how many parents are struggling with their adult children, teenage children, college age children, where communication is broken, their relationship's been severed. And so we wanted to talk a little bit about it because so many, uh, people that I know, uh, have fractured relationships with their kids. And so we wanted to offer some insights into it and some solutions to. Re, uh, connecting with your adult child. If that relationship has been fractured.

Well, listen, I, number one, again, it's one of the things that we don't talk about. We hear it, or we have family members, or to be part, to be honest with you, we're a part of it, right? Where we haven't talked to our adult children. So I really thought this was great. And I'm, I'm looking forward to diving in further, but let me read an excerpt out of the article. Cause I thought this, it was a bunch of statistics that you put in there. And I thought was like, wow, but here's the first thing that really, um, took me. And I quote, many adult parents are grappling with the fact that their adult kids don't want to have anything to do with them. As the divorce rate increased across the country, so did the fracture of the American family. So much so that there are scores and scores of broken relationships between parents and their adult children. And you use, and I want to ask you about the character that you have in the article. Uh, the guy named Steven. Okay. And you talk about how Steven got a divorce, um, second marriage. He's excited. He felt, he feels that he found his soulmate. Yeah. And they're going to get married and then he invited his adult children to come to the wedding and they shun him and they don't want to have nothing to do with him.

Right.

Okay. So talk about that a little bit. And, and, and, and I love to know, is this, you know, uh, uh, a real individual? Is this more of a fiction individual? Talk a little bit about Steve.

Yeah. So, you know, I was walking down the street one day on my afternoon walk and I saw a neighbor of mine who lives about six houses down. And so, you know, we get it. tickets to everything because we're a media company and I offered him and his wife some tickets to a Guardians game. And I said, listen, if you want to take your kids or grandkids to a game, let me know. And he said, Brett, I hate to tell you this, but I don't have a relationship with my kids. And so he's the reason that I wrote the article. Uh, and so he's real. Uh, I left his last name out of it to protect him. And I did ask if I could share his story and I did, I didn't interview him, but we had a discussion and I took, I pulled the quotes from the conversation that we had and he said it was okay to kind of lead with his story. But it resonated with me so much, man, because I have adult kids. I have a 25, 19. And so, you know, he's not the first person where I've had this conversation where the relationship is fractured or either even non existent. So based on that, I wrote the article, I did some research and then through research, I found out there are so many more people who have fractured relationships with their adult Children, buddy,

flat out. I mean, well, number one, thanks for sharing that. And I, I imagine that it was somebody real, right? Um, here's the thing, though, a couple of things. So, divorce rate, which United States 47, 48, 50 percent divorce rate. We think about, when we think of divorce, we do think about the children. We think about how the family now is fractured. But we really think about it, and at least from my perspective, I think about it with young kids, right? I don't, I've never really thought about it with adult children, right? Because at the end of the day, you figure, and again, everybody's situation is different. So. You think that when you think of divorce, you think most people get divorced, you know, first 10 years, right? Right. And then they have kids and their kids are young. Okay. In this situation with Steven, you know, and again, he doesn't say, but he got a divorce. Um, evidently the, the marriage was horrible and again, this I'm going by based on what I'm reading in the article, right? And then he remarries. And then the family, the kids don't want to have anything to do with them. So, so the thing is. I hate to say this and I don't want to make it, uh, uh, there's a, there's several people I know in my family or friends of mine that deal with this exact same thing. Okay. And so, you know, one of the things that you talk about in the article is that not only, um, Not only the divorce rate is causing the issue, but it was something else when you said social media. So what do you mean by social media is also having an effect when it comes to this issue?

So I want you to, and I think we're, we're kind of in the same age range where I'm a generation X, I think you're a generation X. So our parents were baby boomers, right? So they were born in an age where you didn't get divorced, whether you liked each other or didn't, you didn't separate. Uh, I think we're the first generation to have divorce. Uh, in our lives and the unfortunate, uh, side effect of having social media also be an added factor in how our Children behave and how they look at life today. So when I talk about social media, social media is also almost more detrimental than any other disease we can we can name. If you take a look at the addiction of social media and how often we look at our phones, have our phones in our pockets, scroll. They said that it's more addictive than And so if you, if you, the one correlation that I wanted to draw is the fact that you have high divorce rate, and then you have the internet raising our children, impacting their decision making, how they, how they view life. So this is the first group of kids where they were born after the internet came out. They also are more isolated than ever. They're also smarter than ever. Uh, and so they tend to have their own opinions. At a higher degree than we did when we were coming up. And so I think the consequence, you know, because causality, cause and effect, you have adult children who are much more judgmental, uh, of their parents, their parents' decision making, and then they took a look at their own lives and then they determine, you know, whether right or wrong, what's best for them. And sometimes severing the relationship with a parent is in, they feel like in their best interest. So I believe that, of course, divorce is a factor. Also single, single households. We don't get together like we used to, uh, you know, when I was little, my family were my friends, but for my children, uh, family is there, but they don't have an impact on their lives on a daily basis. Like I did, my family did online. So there's several different factors, but social media is a huge factor because, you know, it just, it just creates, uh, fractured, fractured lifestyles, isolation, uh, a lack of a need for touch. Intimacy with friendships, family, parents. And so, man, it causes a big problem for us.

Let me ask you this. So, um, and I didn't see it in the article, but I love just based on your research. So I got a couple of questions. Do you know the percentage of adult children across the country that don't talk to their living children that don't talk to their, their parents any longer? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I

looked for that data. No one is keeping track of that. So I don't know if we're not studying it from a You know, a therapist relationship. I don't know why it's not being tracked, but I think it's something that we need to take a look at because it's a lot more prevalent in American society than we'd like to think.

Right. And then my other question, and, and again, using Steven as an example, it was divorce, right? Right. Um, what are some of the other reasons why living kids don't talk to their fit

to talk to their parents? So, you know, you have things from childhood trauma, Uh, molestation, uh, poor parenting, uh, forcing your children to either do things that they didn't want to do, whether it's play a sport, you know, piano, ballet, you know, a lot of times we, as parents, we force things on our children, thinking that this is in their best interest and it's not, uh, you know, I've had examples and ever since I wrote the article, I've had people coming up to me or, or texting me saying, Hey man, this article hit home because I'm dealing with the same thing. And so, you know, whether your parents were alcoholics, whether they made good decisions, didn't make good decisions, uh, some of those become a factor. And then, you know, when the child grows up, once they figure out that the parent made bad decisions or the parent were, was neglectful, uh, then this adult child would make a decision on their own to either penalize the parent, uh, promise themselves that they won't make the same mistake. Or they will forgive the parent, right? So you have all three dynamics kind of at play there. Yeah. I mean, so buddy

to be, so number one, let's back up because abuse I get, yeah, I get that sexual abuse. Totally get it. Uh, verbal. you know, negativity. I totally get it. Right. Um, the divorce, I, I, I can, I can see that too. Right. However, you know, the thing about being a parent, you know, as far as I know, there's no perfect parents, right? We've all made mistakes in thinking that we're doing the right thing. And I'm not talking again, the abuse part, I I'm not getting into the divorce stuff, but I'm just saying some of the other things that you just got finished talking about, right. Um, it seems like at any time, you know, I got two daughters, you know, and this story did hit does hit home with me. And I'll talk to you a little bit about that later on, but I got two daughters who I think me and my wife do a really good job. And, you know, look, we ain't perfect, but we, we, we bring them up. We try to raise them the right way. Obviously, there's times when they want to do stuff. And we say no, there's been times when we wanted them to play a certain sport and then they decided that that they didn't want to do it any longer. And, you know, it was tough for us, but we said, okay. Okay. Well, my point I'm trying to make is, is that just based on what you said. They can get to be 30, 31 years old and look back and says, they was terrible. And I don't want them no more. Right. That's basically where we're at now.

It's happening. It's happening. So, you know, let's talk about our children for a second, if we can. Um, unfortunately, you know, I think we were raised in an era where we looked at the totality of our parents, you know, my father, uh, uh, He is an amazing man. My parents, uh, were amazing. Uh, we were raised very well. My father's not perfect. You're correct. Uh, but when I take a look at what he did for us, I could never have resentment towards my father. If you take a look at the kids that are being raised today, the kids are in my kid's generation, 25, 28 and below down to 16, 17. They're a lot more judgmental of how they were raised than we were, you know? And so. It's a double edged sword because you know, you wanted to give your kids the best. We kind of coddled and spoon fed him and gave him everything, lived in the best suburbs, went on vacation and all of that, you know, but our kids are in that woke society where they don't trust CNN anymore. They don't trust Fox News. They get their information off the Internet. They're over educated to some degree, but they have no experience. Right and I get on my daughter about this all the time I'm like, you know, you're one of the smartest people that I know at 20, but you also have no experience So you're making all your decisions based on education, but not a feeling, you know Uh, and so that component that's missing is the ability to have empathy to have reverence to have commonality to have you know the ability to View yourself from someone else's position You You and I have perspective because we can see ourselves in other people. We have empathy for our fellow human, but the children of today, because they're so isolated, they're, they're over educated and under experienced.

Yeah. And so I hear that and I'm not going to say I disagree. Right. I think though, too, though, when it comes to kids is playing the long game. Because at the end of the day, you know, um, uh, you know, the old biblical parable about the prodigal son, okay, where the son goes with, you know, the father rings him up, has an inheritance for him, he wants his money now, he, he's jealous, he doesn't let any runs away, right? And then he's gone for years. He's not talking to his father. Then he comes back, right? And says, and what did the father say? My son is home. Okay. So I, I, I, you know, I look, I've been in situations where I, you know, had a, a rough outing with my mother. Okay. Where, you know, there was a timeframe that we didn't talk as much as we did before. Right. And, and it happens and I don't, I, I, but my point is to your, what you just got for the same about the empathy part. And that's why I talk about the long game. But then once I, and it was more of an issue versus she was a horrible mother, okay? And so the point I'm trying to make is, I think most people at some point bounce back and they look at the totality of their experience with their parents, right? And there was probably an issue, right? I'll tell you this story, this one story. So my daughter, you haven't met her yet, um, she lives in Michigan. And this was, I'm talking years ago, this was early 2000s. Okay. And her and I didn't chat for a while because she, uh, we just kind of, it was a, it was a falling out. Okay. So we didn't talk for a while. And then, uh, my wife, you know, Gayle, we, uh, invited her to come to, um, to our house. Visit us for, I think it was Thanksgiving, Christmas, I can't remember, right? So she spent the week out here with us. We had a good time, right? I, you know, I'm working in the city, so I got up early to take her to the airport so I can catch the train to come into the city to go to work. So I got up three in the morning, took her to the airport, gave her a big hug, loved her, said we had a great time. And then I got to the, uh, took, uh, went home. I mean, went to the, uh, train station, took the train into the city. I got into the city, went into my office, turned my computer on. There was an email from her and the email says, dad, I love you and I'm sorry. And what we went through, you were right. And I was spoiled, but I just want to let you know how much I love you and how much you were, you did the right thing. And I love the way you brought us up, brought it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I cried like a baby. Yeah, okay, because, but you see my point here. I do. And so, so my point is, and then, and now we have a tight, tight relationship. You see my point. So I hear you that, you know, there's all the things that you talked about. I don't disagree, but I do think that at some point, and not everybody, You know, there's an old saying, kids are like rubber bands, right? They're going to stretch out, but if you brought them up the right way, at some point, they'll bounce back.

I don't disagree with you. I think there are cycles to this. And I think there are situations where, you know, and I put this in an article, because we detail the scenarios in which you are to engage, you are to release, you are to wait, and you're to be patient. And so, there are cycles to this where, Depending on the problem, uh, there's a different solution for each problem. So I, I agree with you, right? Um, I have my 19 year old is at Ohio state, two hours away, doesn't come home from college, like he used to, because he's so far away. And so I went to him, I was like, you know what? It's been three weeks. I haven't seen him. And when he used to come home, it was all good. But since he didn't, I went to him and I think you have to stay connected to your kids and listen. It is still a 70 30 relationship. I know. And I, and I preached this to my kids. Hey, we're, you're 50 percent of the relationship. And so I need for you to call and check on me. Like I'll call and check on you. But the truth is, is that as the mature parent, it is always the onus is on you to protect the relationship as much as you can. Because, you know, my father's 87 years old and you know, uh, John F. Kennedy Jr. He said, you're not grown until you lose both your parents. Okay. And so even though my dad is 87 and he's here and he's thriving and he's, I still feel 20 when I see my dad, I still revert back to that 12 year old kid when I'm in my father's presence.

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so it's really, really important that as a parent, you do your level best to maintain a healthy, positive relationship with your kids. Where I challenge you though, Tony is that our children are raised a little differently and their perspective is different. They don't need to own a home. They're not career oriented. They're not necessarily in a rush to drive, get married, you know, recreate. So their perspective is different because their goals are different. And so because they look at life so differently than us, their decision making is skewed to my, in my opinion as well, and I don't want to say skewed to make it sound negative that they're, they're wrong, but I think that our children today are a lot, they judge life a lot more harshly than we did. We tended to take a look at life and say, you know what, man, this too shall pass. And I think our children sometimes get stuck in a frame of mind or a way of thinking and cannot get beyond it. And so, you know, I, we recommended therapy. We do have steps to engage a child if they're upset, but we also warn parents that they are not to be abused by an overbearing child who's demanding one thing or another. You have to protect your peace as well. And so there's a fine line between I want to repair this fractured relationship to, I want to protect my peace.

So, buddy, go into more specifics in terms of the step. So, if somebody's listening to this right now, you know, I gave an example, you gave example about your son, right? Right. What's some of the things that they can be able to do where they're not going to run, run their child off, right? Or to your point, they're not going to, well, you know, I, if he ain't going to say nothing, I ain't going to say nothing. You know what I'm saying? And just, so what's some of the things

that people could do? So the typical fractured relationship on average lasts between four to five years. So we wanted to make that point clear because depending on where people were in the spectrum of where they were with their fractured child, we wanted to let them know what kind of time frame they had to work with to get this thing going. And so if you go beyond five years, the longer you wait, the harder it gets to repair it, Tony. So hold

on one second, just stop for a second, because I just want to make sure I'm clear what I'm hearing. So there's what? It's five years. So for five years on a living child doesn't talk to their parents.

Well, they may, they may not be completely silent. But the relationship

is

fractured. The relationship is fractured, right? So maybe, and I'll kind of go into it, to symptoms. Where, you know, you're calling your kid or you're trying to talk to him and the conversation is not as deep or detailed as it used to be. Uh, the phone calls become less and less and less and there's a certain level of avoidance that your child has with you. Always busy, I'll call you back, but they don't, blah, blah, blah. And so those are some of the first warning signs that there's a problem. If you do get to the crux of the situation where you do find out what's wrong, we also detail that you don't want to diminish how they feel. Whether you agree or disagree is not the point. You want to allow them to speak their truth and then internalize that information and then start to work from there. So half the battle is finding out what the real problem is and then, okay, what do I do and how do I begin to repair that? So becoming defensive obviously does not work.

So can you speak on

that?

Because I, I, I would imagine, and again, I've been in this situation before, we get defensive because we want to immediately. You know, explain whatever the situation happened, whatever, whatever happened in the situation. It ain't our fault. Or you, you, you, you listen, or you, our communication was wrong, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So can you talk a little bit more about that? Because I think 90 percent of the time that's a response that people do.

Well, and, and here's the thing. I mean, I'm not going to say that I agree with getting defensive, but you know, as a father, Of four children. The first thing I'm thinking of is do you understand what I sacrificed? You understand I changed the diapers Yo, I taught y'all how to you know, I protected you at night. I kept the heat on cheese in the refrigerator I clothed you we went on vacation. We did this you had a perfect amazing life from my perspective And so, you know when you hear your children are frustrated with you The first thing you want to do is do you understand? You Just how much I did for you and, and what kind of parent I was to pay for all the travel, sports, vacations, homes, cars, uh, and so, well, hold on one second. You have to,

one of the, but one of the steps is not to do that though, right? What I'm saying to you is you

have to put that stuff to the side. Yeah, yeah,

yeah.

Because in order to get to the crux of the situation, and more importantly, Tony, in order for them to be heard, you want to make sure that they feel heard. So you can't sit there and be defensive. You're going to have to park that to the side for a second and say, you know what? I got to hear them out so I can understand what they're saying to me and then internalize that. Because you know, everybody might be in the car, but not everybody's listening to the same music anymore. No, no. Right. Remember back in the day when we were going on vacation, it was one day track one CD player in the car and we all was listening. Now with your kids, they got headphones on, you know, wife might be sleep. You driving for eight hours. And this, this is what life looks like now for the American family though. Right.

Oh man. That's right.

It's true. Yeah, bro. I remember when I was little and we first, we were the first people on my street to get cable. The cable box was downstairs in the basement. We used to pop popcorn. We will get the space heater, go downstairs and watch Smokey and The Bandit as a family. Oh, don't get the space heater. Cause it was no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But today, today, my four kids are, they're all in their room. I'm in the family room. Wife's in the kitchen. And so it's a micro, it's a reflection of American society today where we're not together, even in our own homes.

Let me ask you this though, because, and I'm hearing you, I just want to make sure I'm clear here, right? And again, I know you said you look for this research. Yes, sir. Um, based on The article that you wrote, I looked at it as a, a broad, you know, uh, fractured living, uh, child who no longer talks to you. Is there any data that says this age group, it's a bigger splinter versus this age? So are there, are there people that are 50? 55 60. That's not talking or has a fracture relationship with their parents at a higher or similar rate than somebody who's 20 25 30.

No, there is no data to support or suggest, you know, demographical evidence that. 50 year olds and 20 year olds are any different. The reason I bring

it up is because you're talking generational, right? And we're talking about how we were raised, right? So we fall in that category versus the younger, all the things that you talked about them. So I just wanted to see if there was some type of data in terms of that difference.

No, no, no. But, but, you know, I can also tell you that there are a lot of grandparents raising their grandchildren and frustrated with their adult Children as well, right? And so there's so many different factors as to what is what is going on. What I can tell you is, is that since the Internet has become prevalent in American society, it's also correlated with the fracturing of the American family and the fabric of American life. And so, you know, even though there's no data, concrete data. To indicate where the problem is and how it is. We all know it exists. I can tell you right now. I'm getting phone calls. I'm getting emails. I'm having people stop me if they know who I am. And say, bro, that article that you wrote, I'm dealing with that. You know, I had somebody come up to me and say, bro, I, my daughter and I are in therapy right now because I got divorced. She blamed, you know, she was mad at me and, and, and listen, I don't want to say that children have fractured relationships more with their dads than their moms, uh, cause I can't find that data either. But a lot of men came up to me after their divorce and said they'd had some kind of problem with dealing with their child post divorce with them either moving on thinking that they're the blame, uh, because they're the leader in the house supposedly. They're the man and they're struggling with their adult child. And when I say adult children, I'm talking about 16, 17, up to 25, 28 years old. Right. In Steven's case, you know, his children, uh, when he got a divorce decided they didn't like the fact that he remarried and he was happy. They removed themselves from his life and their children. So now he can't even deal with grand. Yeah. He, he, he, he can't see his grandkids. He doesn't see his adult Children. And what do you do with that? When I'm living in the same community as my adult kids, I'm in a grocery store. I see him in an aisle 23. I'm an hour 13 and I can't even go hug him and see him. So, you know, we all deal with death. But my God, what do you do when you have a child? That's alive and you can't speak to him.

Yeah. How much, and again, I don't know, again, from a research standpoint, but I'm going to throw this question at you. How much, and I'm talking specifically divorce. Okay. Let's just go to the divorce. How much does the, the, the spouse, the ex spouse have something to do with the not wanting to talk to the other parent because For whatever reason, they still hold, and I'm talking the parent, I'm talking the spouse part, the ex spouse, all right, that they still, because you know, a lot of times, man, people use their kids as weapons, okay, um, in divorce, all right, and then, and just to have people on their side, so, you know, and let's be fair here too, and again, I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to be Dr. Phil, But the majority of people who get married, shouldn't have got married, okay, first of all, right, even if they had kids, a lot of people aren't happy, right, in a relationship. They hang on to the relationship because they have kids. Okay. The kids see that they ain't happy. The kids see that somebody's miserable or they're fighting all the time. There's a million things that go on, right? And then when they break up, if they, but when they, when somebody finally says, you know what, this ain't working, life is too short. You need to be happy. I need to be happy. And then they move on. Then there's one spouse. It could be the husband or the wife. They fight over the kids. And then whoever gets the kids uses the kids against the, the, the ex partner, even though they know the relationship was horrible. They knew it wasn't going to work out anyway. But they still use the kids as a weapon. And then the kids end up to your point of the article. I don't want to talk to my father no more because he's marrying somebody else. And he left mama. And, you know, I bought even though the kid and again, we know every situation is different, even though the kid knows that when they were together, there was no good for each other. So I just let me hear your thoughts on that.

No, you're correct. And so, again, there's not hard evidence on the percentages. who uses or weaponizes the children, but we know it's happening, right? We know it happens. Uh, and we know, you know, to quote, Dr. Phil children would rather come from a broken home than being a broken home. And so children even know that your parents, you know, shouldn't be together. I've had umpteen times where people come up to me and they say, I told my parents, man, I couldn't wait for y'all to get a divorce. Because the house got happier. There was peace. Okay. And life got better as a result of parents getting a divorce. Now, even though that's the case, there is still a wanting for the traditional family where you have the patriarch, the matriarch, and the child. I think even your adult children long to have a two parent household where there's love, there's peace, there's, there's, there's intimacy, there's the cookouts, there's the dinners. And a lot of times, you know, in American society. And I fight this with my kids all the time. I need to see you. We need to get together. We need to spend some time together. I think absence makes things worse, almost like texting. I don't text negatively because there's so much lost in translation when you text people. So, you know, if I'm talking to my kids and I can hear in their voice, you know, we need some face time. I'll go to their house. And, and say, you know what, we're getting together. You know, I don't even ask, right. Cause asking implies they have a choice. And so I'm like, I'm like, Hey, I'm coming down to Ohio state. I'll see you six o'clock, you know what I mean? And so, um, I, you gotta make sure that you stay in your kid's face. You have to make sure that you check in. And I think that face to face time allows for empathy. It allows for compassion to be there. It allows for touch, right? You got to hug your children. Um, even though they're adults and not in a. And you know, like at my age, you know, I have my own life now. All my children are in college or grown. And sometimes you can forget a little bit that, Hey, I need to be checking in, but you have to bro, because they're busy. They're out there fighting the hard life to, to become something, do something. And I think you got to stay plugged in. And so as a parent, I'm very fortunate where I don't have a fractured relationship, but I feel so bad for the people that do. Because I don't know what I would do if I had an adult kid out here And I couldn't speak to him or I couldn't go hug him and I couldn't talk to him So I wrote the article to make sure for the people who are struggling with this that they have some solutions that they're not alone uh And unfortunately, you know, it's not going to repair all the relationships, but hopefully it can have an impact on somebody

right? Let me ask you this man You know going back to the prodigal son the biblical parable Um when the son came back in the moral of the story The father forgave him. Okay. So where does forgiveness fall in the place of this? Right. Cause at some point, regardless of what happened or who started it, somebody has got to forgive somebody for this relationship to men. What's your thoughts on that?

Oh yeah. Listen, forgiveness is huge. And, but there has to be space, space has to be created for it, Tony. So the mistake that many of parents tend to make is that they feel attacked unjustly by their Children. And so instead of internalizing it, they make excuses. And I think that sometimes, you know, you know, you life when you have this kind of situation, you can have what's known as a pure victory. And a pure victory is when you you win the battle, but you lose the war. Right. So I can win this battle with my kid and I can defend myself and all of that. But then my child says, you know what? I heard your position. I just told you mine and I'm done with you because you weren't listening. So we have to do a better job at listening as parents. We have to be apologetic. Someone has to cross the 50 line first. That 50 yard line is critical. And if my child was mad at me, bro, I'm crossing that line to come over there to figure out what's going on. Okay. Uh, because I didn't sacrifice everything that I sacrificed to not have a relationship with my adult children. I have a 20 month old granddaughter man, and she's precious and Uh, you know as a circle of life happens I can't tell you how wonderful it is to see your child have a child.

What can society, you know, that, that old thing, that, um, phrase that, uh, Hillary Clinton says it takes a village, right? What can society do to support families

that have these fractured relationships? So, you know, I'll take my personal family. Uh, and use that as an example. If I was raised by my father who was in my life, but I had five, six, seven uncles who also were impactful and they taught different things. One uncle was rich. One uncle was a farmer. One uncle was a police officer. My father's an engineer. So they all taught me different parts and walks of life that together created who I am today. And so I recommend, uh, that your children have more than you in their life. Because let's just say, for instance, my child is mad at me. They have my brother who has an intimate relationship with my kids. They call each other. Their relationship is independent of me. My brother gives my Children perspective about me. I have cousins who communicate with my kids where, you know, they keep in touch with my kids and we do this for each other to make sure that we stay plugged into the family and the kids because it takes a village. Tony, it takes a village and that that rings true today. I think that unfortunately we have to be way more intensive with it. I think my parents didn't struggle with it. You know, every weekend, my parents were getting together, playing cards with all the aunts and uncles and we would switch houses and it was just a foregone conclusion. He was going to be with family this weekend. Right. But now we got to build in time. Hey, three months from now, we're going to get together and we still only have half the people show up, you know, you know what I'm saying? So bro, we have got to find a way. To put the phones down, reconnect with family, get back to getting in the backyard, cooking out, have conversation, make the kids hang out. Uh, we got to get back to touching each other because I'm going to tell you the internet's not going anywhere. Social media is not going anywhere. If anything, social media is getting worse. You got the tick tocks, 15, seven, seven second videos, where now, you know, I can't even sit through an hour and a half movie without being bored out of my mind because the framing is slow. The plots are horrible. Because they're trying to keep your attention, right? Right. So guess what's happening to your kids who born in that? They were born in that. Remember, they were born into video games, right? So they're hitting l one l two l seven, you know, X, X, X, X, X, they're not paying attention to what's going on right now. And I'm gonna tell you that, you know, let me just add this. We spent a lot of time planning for the future, right? But we don't spend any time living in a moment. We've got to go back to living in a moment as a society, Yeah. And I would encourage any parent, create in the moment situations with your kids. Absolutely, buddy.

And I want to back up because you said something, I don't want to make sure our audience missed this. You know, and going back to that, it takes a village. And you said, Hey, it's important that their uncles and their cousins and everybody's plugged in. Why is that? I call that preventive maintenance. Right? Because what happens is if there's an issue that comes up. And you, if everybody in the family has a tight relationship with everyone, somebody in the family, that person may not come to their mother or father and talk about that issue, but they'll go to Uncle Brad, they'll go to Cousin Joe, they'll go to Cousin, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, Irene, they'll go to Aunt, you know, uh, Kathy, and they'll, because they'll have a, a, a special relationship with those other individuals, and then they'll share that, that situation, and then that gives time for somebody in the family To make sure that this doesn't turn into a horrible situation and provide more perspective, listen to whatever the issue is, maybe even go back and tell the parent or whatever the case may be. I'm just saying it'd be, and it still can go awry, right? But my point is it by having that support mechanism is very important, right? Because nobody just 1 day wakes up and says, I'm done. They're talking to somebody hopefully in their family There's somebody that they're really close with and look we know this as our best parents Our kids get to a certain age. They stop listening to us, but they will listen We all have had the situation where you tell you, you know I tell my daughters to do blah blah blah and then uncle Joe will say the same stuff. They're like, wow, that's awesome Thank you. I've never heard it before right? So right so but you need uncle Joe for that. You need auntie Carol for that You need grandma for that, right? Because then they can hopefully talk to them and, and make sure that this situation doesn't become combustible and then go, go off and explode. And next thing you know, you got some, uh, a child's not talking to the parents for 5, 6, 7 years. Would you agree with that?

I would agree with that. And also, I think we need to be more cognizant of the symptoms and that's my point. We need to pay attention to when the cycle starts. And we detailed that in the article, pay attention because don't wait until they're not speaking. Pay attention to the symptoms, you know, the reduced conversation conversations, not as deep as they used to be exactly. You need to be checking, check in on your kids as often as you can without being irritating. You know, I remember when my kids first went to college. Uh, and I became an empty nester and three, four days ago by and I was texting, calling you. How come I haven't heard from you? You know, with dad, I was at the party and I had class and I'm working again. And I'm like, Oh, wait, wait a minute. I was in my own feelings. They out there living life like I taught him to bro. And I, I'm at home going, you're in your own feeling. Yeah, bro. How come you haven't called? You don't love me anymore. You know? So I had to get over myself. Oh. And figure out, I better go get my own life because they're doing exactly what I taught them to do, which is go live life. And so, you know, you have to figure out as a parent, how to stay plugged in, but how to give them space to become their own, their own person. Right. Uh, and I think sometimes parents might lose. the knack for that. And then, you know, don't forget, you're still teaching your kids. My father's 87. I'm still learning from my father.

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And so you can't As rightfully so, right? As rightfully so, right? So you want to stay plugged into your kids, you want to stay engaged. in a manner which is respectful, not be overbearing. Um, but again, I think we also need to make sure that we understand the kind of world that our kids live in. Remember when rap came out and our parents was like, this is the death of music. Right. And now rap is in cereal commercials.

Listen to it now.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. But I think we need to be cognizant of the negative impact social media is having on our kids and how much it's isolating them. And we had to fight that and come up with solutions to make sure that your kids are plugged into family, plugged into yourself, and you create the circle of trust where they still are coming to you. Uh, you know, when they have negative thoughts, there's when they have trepidation. Uh, when they're irritated with the co worker or their own relationship. And so, you know, trust is huge. And I think that that's a factor too. Like sometimes kids don't come to parents or there's fractures. fractures in a relationship is there's a trust factor. Absolutely.

My friend. I totally agree. Final thoughts. What do you want to leave the audience, man? I mean, you gave a lot today. This was awesome. Final

thoughts. Well, you know, again, the article was written so people would have perspective. If they're dealing with this, they're not alone. We wanted to make sure that. We spoke to people who are struggling with this to give them some solutions on what they can do. But you know, my prayer for everybody out there is that they have and maintain a healthy relationship with their kids. If you don't go seek therapy, uh, if you can, uh, if you can, if you can bring in another adult, a loving cousin, a grandmother, a brother or sibling, uh, to interject, to create. You know, a referee, if you will do it. Um, and if you think something is going on with your adult child, you need to start addressing it as fast as possible. Because remember, the longer you wait, the worse it gets. And so my advice is to love on them hard. Stay in the moment. If you can continue to create, you know, Staycations, real vacations, opportunities for personal touch. Do it. So that's my, uh, final word, buddy. I really

appreciate it. And I thank you. Um, you mind if I share, I want to share a story about this, because again, your article, when I read it, it really touched me and I'm pretty sure that people who are listening to, or watching this episode of a black executive perspective, Um, well, can relate to the story I'm about to say, right? So, and again, I, my son, his name was Randy. Um, and him and I, we fell out. Cause, and it wasn't anything with divorce. It was just, he wasn't doing the things that I worked hard for him to do. And the way I wanted, I brought him up and raised him. And I had all these, to your point, plans of the future for him. You know what I mean? This and that and all nighters. And he decided to go his own way. And, you know, as a parent, sometimes you have to say, well, you know what, that's what you want to do. You want to live that way. You go do it, but you can't live that way in my house until you come back until you come back, um, the right way. Don't come back. I don't want to talk to you. Right. So, you know, that was my stance. And then one night on a Friday night, around about nine 30, I got a phone call. Um, from this hospital in Colorado. And it said my son was dying from leukemia and he wasn't gonna make it through the night. Oh my God. Okay. Now we didn't even know he had leukemia. He didn't even know he had a sore throat and it didn't get any better. And then he went to the doctor for about 30 days. They admitted him, right. And called me. I couldn't even, it was no flight to get there that night from here to Connecticut. I flew out the first flight the next morning. And by the time I landed, he passed away.

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that, bro.

Okay. And think about the guilt when I walked into the hospital and I saw him laying on that bed and I cried like a baby. And you know what I was saying? I'm sorry. Right. I'm sorry. Right. And nobody wants to deal with that. Nobody. It doesn't matter what your circumstances are. And I get it. You may be upset because mommy or daddy or somebody didn't do the right thing when they, when they should have, and they were at fault, right? But you don't want life is short. It's not promised to anyone. And the last thing you ever want, cause I experienced this and I still carry this. Is to not have a relationship with one of your family members, your own kid, or your father, or your mother, or your sister, and be upset at them about something and then never see them again. Right. It ain't worth it. It's not right. So thank you for allowing me to share in that story and I hope it resonates because there's no argument, no disagreement. That's worth not talking to your loved one ever again.

Wow. That is, that is deep. I can't tell you how proud I am of you for sharing that. And I've, I'm so sorry, bro. And I did not know that you just shared that with me just now, but you're the reason I wrote the article, bro. Um, and you're, you sharing that is going to save someone else that pain. Of having to go through that hopefully somebody sees this and makes a call today And so I appreciate you sharing it, bro.

That is it my brother. 'cause it's not worth it. It's just not right. Life is so short, so let's forgive. Right. I'm glad you wrote this article, my brother. Let me give you a round of Applauses.

Thank you sir. Alright, that's for money. No, not the sound effects. Tony. Right? Not the sound effects. You got sound effects now. I got sound. It's a new beat, bro. Studio bro. Bro, bro, I see growth. We, we, I see growth.

I told you, right? We turned in some bottles that we've been seeing. We turned them in. We got, we need a live audience now. We need a live audience. You know what I'm saying? So now I can, I want to always thank my audience, my, my, my guests, they come on and bring it like you brought it today, my brother. So I love you a lot. I appreciate it. I love you. And, uh, you stay right there. Okay. Because we're going to, uh, Brad Bowling is going to help us with our call to action. So I think it's now time for what Tony's tidbit. So the tidbit today, and obviously it's always about. What our episode is. So the tidbit today is building bridges over troubled waters, forgiveness in families teaches us that healing is not about erasing the past, but letting go of its hold. On our lives. Okay. And Brad Bowling, his article, please make sure you check it out. Surviving the loss of a living child. He talks about that. We talked about that today. So it's important for whatever your circumstance and I get it. I totally get it. Right. They were wrong. Totally get it. Right. Some point we got to forgive and we got to move on, right? So please don't forget to check out the next need to know by Dr. Nsenga Burton, which appears on the Black Executive Perspective every Thursday. Dr. Burton brings on and dives into the timely, crucial topics that shape our community and world. You don't want to miss what's going on because, you know, what Brad Bowling just got talking about in social media where we're liking and looking in 10 seconds here and that and you're missing things that can, that's going to affect your life, your community. So, make sure you check out need to know by Dr Nsenga Burton. Every week, every Thursday on a black executive perspective podcast. So again, I hope you enjoy the episode with Brad Bowling, surviving the loss of a living child. So now it's time for BEP's call to action. Call it less. Our goal, our platform, why we're here. It's about decreasing all forms of discrimination. So we use the acronym less L E S S. So Brad is going to kick us off. What does L stand for Brad? Educate yourself on racial and cultural nuances. Exactly. Right. And then E stands for empathy. Okay. Once you've learned, and now you become more enlightened, you should have more empathy. And you should be more empathetic to your friends, your colleagues, your neighbors, because now you understand

what they've been going through. And then next to share your insights to enlighten others.

Exactly. And then the final S. is stop. We want to stop discrimination as it walks into our path. So if Aunt Jenny says something at the Sunday dinner table that's inappropriate, you say Aunt Jenny, we don't believe that. We don't talk that way. And you stop it immediately. So if everyone Can incorporate less in their daily walk. And this is something that's in everyone's control. LESS will have a more fair and understanding world. And more importantly, we'll all be able to see the change that we want to see. Because less will become more. So again, you can continue to follow a black executive perspective podcast, wherever you get your podcast. And you can follow us on our social media accounts at Tik TOK X, YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram at a black exec for our fabulous guest, the president of cold M magazine, Brad Bowling. I'm Tony tidbit. We really enjoyed talking to you about it today. We love you. And guess what? We're out

a black executive perspective.