Matt Edmundson: Welcome to the e-Commerce podcast with
me, your host, Matt Edmundson.
The E-Commerce podcast is all about helping you deliver e-commerce wow.
And to help us do just that, I am chatting with my very special guest
today, Tomar hen from MobCo Media about how to join the Creator economy.
But before we jump into this fascinating conversation, let
me suggest a few other eCommerce podcast episodes to listen to that
I think you will also enjoy, try Katie Wight's conversation with me about content
strategy and why it is my new B F F.
And also have a look at Lauren Schwartz, a creative that drives the click through.
You can find both of these as well as our entire archive of episodes on our
website for free at ecommercepodcast.net.
Now shout out to today show sponsor, uh, e-commerce cohort.
Uh, they e-commerce cohort is all about helping you deliver
e-commerce well to your customers.
I don't know if you've ever done an online course.
I've done a lot of them, but I've spent a small fortune, if I'm honest
with you, in online courses over the years, some of which I've completed.
Some of which I haven't, but ask me, you know, what I've done as
a result of those online courses.
Sometimes I've just sat there and learned and not really done a whole great deal.
Online courses are great, but I find they're a bit overwhelming and I
don't always get the most out of them.
Well, Cohort's different.
It's a lightweight membership group with guided monthly princess, right?
Every month some new stuff comes out, which cycles through all
the key areas of e-commerce.
And this is brilliant because it, it's not like an online learning thing where
you've got 11 hours worth of instruction.
No, no, there's, there's no overwhelm.
It's lightweight and it's practical.
It's designed to help you get to, uh, work on your business.
So whether you are just starting out, uh, in e-commerce or like me, you've
been around a fair few years, as they say a well established e-commerce,
uh, then I encourage you to definitely check out eCommercecohort.com.
Ecommercecohort.com.
You can find a whole bunch more information, uh, about this fantastic
tool on the website, or you can email me directly, matt@ecommercepodcast.net.
If you've got any specific questions, I will try my level best to answer them.
Now.
Without further ado, uh, here is my conversation with.
Tomer.
Tomer Hen is a digital marketing expert with over a decade of experience.
He founded the first mobile marketing school in Israel, created
the first Israeli mobile marketing summit, and has spearheaded notable
campaigns with leading Fortune 500.
He is the man now backed by expertise and a growing portfolio.
Tomer was recognized as one of Forbes 30 promising entrepreneurs under
30, so slightly envious the fact he was in Forbes and slightly envious.
Envious that he's still under 30.
So that said, he's the right dude to talk to because in this episode
we are gonna chat about how you can.
The creator economy and start making money doing what you love.
Now, if you are like me, you probably have lots of interests and passions that
actually you could easily turn into a career and would love to do so, but it
can be difficult to know where to start or how to make money doing what you love.
Now, whether you're an artist, A musician, a writer, or just have some great ideas.
Stay tuned for this conversation with Tomer because he is
the experts just for you.
Yes, Yes.
Tamer, welcome to the podcast.
Great to have you here.
How are
you doing?
Tomer Hen: Thank you so much, Matt.
It's great being here.
That was quite an intro, so thank you for that.
. Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
Something we all now have to live up to?
No, no, no.
Where?
Whereabouts in the world are you dialing in from?
Tomer Hen: Right now I'm in Tel Aviv and I spend my time, um, in between,
uh, La Tel Aviv, Austin, uh, and anywhere that I pretty much desire.
Uh, and that's, uh, part of, uh, my, that was part of my goal as an entrepreneur,
just living wherever I wanna live.
Someone.
Matt Edmundson: Well, I mean, that's awesome in the sense that, um, you
get to travel, uh, all over the place.
And did you.
Did you always have that as something you wanted to do, or is that something
that's kind of formed in the last few years of life as it were?
Tomer Hen: Yeah, that's a, that's a great question.
I've always loved travel.
I've always been an entrepreneur ever since I can remember.
And I always loved travel.
I always, you know, I traveled with my parents and I was waiting for
our, uh, summer holidays or, uh, just traveling all around the world
and growing as an entrepreneur.
I just wanted to do this more often.
Uh, I never thought that I would, uh, be as free to actually leave.
A few months here, a few months there, and just going with, uh, you know,
with the win, just, just deciding where I wanna spend the next few months.
Uh, also growing my business on that same location or the same city going
to meetups, events, conferences.
Just building sort of a community in, in cities that I travel to,
it's not just about sighting or eating in, in, in local restaurants.
It's all about building a community, um, knowing the local entrepreneurs,
the local businesses, and that's part of, of the passion that I have.
It's not just about going on a vacation because I feel.
I don't have to, I, I've built my, my routine or my life in a way that
I don't have to go on a vacation and just unplug for a few months
just to, to reset or recover.
Um, I could recover on that same day, just, you know, work for an hour or I
could recover for a week or a month.
Um, but I really love what I'm doing and when it's not.
I just give up on that project or that task or even that business.
So fun is basically what leads my.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
Yeah, I was gonna say
that's quite an interesting metric, isn't it?
Fun?
Uh, because everybody's wrapped up with metrics like ROI and average order value
and, and all these sorts of things.
Uh, I quite like that.
What's the fun level, uh, in what we are doing?
How fun is it?
So you, you mentioned that your, um, you traveled with your parents.
Were your parents entrepreneurial?
Is that where you picked it up?
Tomer Hen: Um, to be honest, no.
I mean, my mom, um, uh, she works for a big software company and my dad has been
a self-employed accountant, so they always had to, when they went on a vacation,
they had to go on a vacation, so they were not location free by any sense.
I guess that's.
Where I figured out that when I grow up, I wanna travel and be location free so I can
just, you know, travel as much as I want.
Just like, just like a kid that wants to eat as much candy as
they want when they move out.
Um, this is basically what, what, what led me into saying I only do business.
That, uh, that gets, gets me that goal of being location free and traveling all.
Um, I still don't have kids, so I guess that's easier and that might change,
uh, when, when I have my own family, but for now I'm just, uh, seizing the
moment.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, well do it, Do it, do it, do it.
It's funny actually because, um, my kids, I have three kids and my
kids are, uh, two of them, uh, this year are gonna be in university and
one of them is, is sort of 15 16.
And so I'm, I'm kind of coming outta that phase where you have to be around all
the time, uh, to get the kids to school and all that sort of stuff, you know, And
it's, we're sort of coming, coming out the other side and I'm, I'm quite looking
forward to that, if I'm honest with you.
So I look, I enjoyed it pre-kids.
I've enjoyed having kids immensely and I'm enjoying the sort of, the
idea of the empty nest syndrome, as we call it here in the uk.
Um, so you get to travel, right?
You get to do this whole entrepreneurial thing.
The fun fact is a big deal for you doing stuff that doesn't
tie you down to one space.
Um, it sounds very, um, four hour work week, you know, the kind of Tim Ferris
kind of, uh, idea, uh, in that book.
Have you ever read that book?
Is this where the idea sort of came from or is this something that
you've kind of figured out along
the.
Tomer Hen: Yeah, that's, that's a great point.
So, uh, four Hour Work Week was one of the first books that I ever read.
I think it was done, Done, Get Me Up.
I think it was like 10 years ago.
May no more than 10 years, or like 15 years ago, probably.
Mm-hmm.
. Um, and I think that it's not that they got the idea from the book, but.
I love the book so much because I could really resonate with what Tim
Ferris has put together with what I believe in and what I wanted as a kid.
You know, even as a 13 year old kid, this is what I wanted and I think
that before I work with is kind of the newer version of Reach Dad, Poor dad.
But I think that today, Um, today you have a new version of the four hour
work week where you could see all of your work as non-work or what I like
to call, um, uh, effortless effort.
So I don't think that you should divide between, uh,
your work and again, your fun.
I think that you could really combine combined it together and people
tend to think that they should work.
In whatever that makes the money up until the point where it
allows them to do whatever is fun for them or exciting for them.
But I think that if you flip that around and you do the thing that is
fun for you and that excites you, you will make money so you don't have
to get all the way in trying to make as much as much money as possible.
And then, Go out and figuring out, you know what I, I think that chapter on the
four hour work is called Filling the Void.
So you don't have to wait and try to fill the void, but you can say, Hey,
what do I wanna feel my life with?
And nowadays you can create a business around any interest, any hobby,
any, anything that excites you.
You can just go and TikTok and, you know, create a huge business around it.
And you have so many evidence.
So, uh, I think that's kind of the newer version of before I will work with,
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?
Because now for the first time that I can remember, uh, and you know, I'm,
I'm talking, I've got a few years of memory here, uh, for the first time that
I can remember now, kids are coming out of school with a very definite plan of,
um, being some kind of content creator.
Like that's a career choice now.
Which, I mean, when I was at school, I did nothing like that ever existed
unless you wanted to write books, in which case she went to academia.
But, um, but it seems to be now a very real career path.
A very real career choice that people take is I, I want to get into this
whole content creation type thing.
And, um, it fascinates me in some respects I'm doing it.
You know, we do this podcast, uh, you know, with, it's a
form of content creation.
We do, um, you know, we have our own online course or cohorts we're gonna
be, uh, calling it, uh, instead of the, and so there are these things
which we do, which years ago we.
No, it never entered to anyone's sort of consciousness that this was actually
a possibility that I could, that I could create some kind of content
that people would be willing to buy.
Uh, and yeah, so you're right.
I mean, kids coming outta school now going, I'm just gonna be, you
know, make my money outta TikTok.
And all their parents are sitting there going, How?
How, No, I don't, How does that work?
Right?
, did you again?
Yeah.
Even Siri wasn't sure.
Uh, but it's kind like how does that work?
How does that even compute?
You know?
Um, so it's a real interesting shift, isn't it, that this has now become
a sort of a bigger and bigger deal.
Uh, it, And so is this where you, where you do part of your journey is
in, in what we call now the content economy, You know, this sort of, uh,
is this where you run part of your.
Tomer Hen: Right.
That's, that's, you know, that's a really good point.
And when I analyze this backwards and when you think about it, Kids always
wanted to express themself and become the famous actors, singers, they wanted,
you know, girls wanted to be Beyonce or, you know, you, you wanted to be, you
wanted to be that famous guy you saw on MTV before you, you had, even before you
had Instagram and, and Facebook, and you basically want, a lot of kids wanted that.
I, I think it's not as superficial as, as Jess or Shallow as just being famous.
It's.
Self expression.
Mm-hmm.
. And then there was this period when, you know, you had Mark Zuckerberg and
apps and people became billionaires by, by selling software, which
was kind of novel at that time.
And all those kids wanted to become entrepreneurs and and coders.
And nowadays I think that's kind of a mix where, Where you get and, and
you know, and the parents always told you, you know, you can't be an actor.
You wanna have any money, you wanna make any money, you can't
be a singer because there are only just a few who would make it.
Um, and now you have this, this interesting combination between
self-expression and anyone can express themselves in any topic.
It doesn't have to be mainstream and go on MTV in order for it to be successful.
Um, and you.
You don't have to have a, a very, a hard skill like coding in order
to become super wealthy or super successful, or super, uh, influential.
And you have this interesting mix between, um, between the tech and internet and
utilizing internet and technology and self-expression where you can just,
you don't have to learn anything.
You don't have, you just have to be your.
And the world is becoming more and more authentic.
People are looking for that authenticity and not necessarily, uh, building a
very, uh, uh, uh, polished figure or a singer, or an actor or a content
creator, which is basically the same, you know, content creator or being,
being a very famous singer where people would pay for your performance
or buying your songs or your albums.
People would now pay for you to reels for them or creating TikTok videos for them?
It's basically the same.
It's just that the opportunities are just for anyone out there.
Matt Edmundson: Fascinating,
isn't it?
Abs and there's a word there that you use that I just want to draw on and,
and, and, and ask, like if I'm gonna get into this sort of creator economy.
Um, is, uh, self-expression is authentic.
Auth, I can't even say the word.
Authenticity.
Uh, is authenticity and self-expression.
Some of the keys to doing this well, to unlocking, um, maybe the, the, the
power of, uh, this sort of new economy.
Tomer Hen: I, I think so.
Uh, I, I know what it is not, it is not about making money.
If you go onto this, In 2022, trying to just make money or basically just
extract more money from the marketplace.
I will try to get those budgets from those businesses, or I will
try to get the attention of users.
People are very, very sensitive for your, uh, for your why and why you're
doing what you're doing, and if you're doing it, even if you have, you know,
you're, you're posting daily and you.
25 followers.
People can sense it, people can, and, and people can sense that you're doing
it not in order to become famous, but if you try to be whatever people want you
to be and not being your authentic self.
I know this could be, you know, it, it could sound very spiritual, but
at the end of the day you can see the data and you can see that the
more successful people out there, um, they were just being themselves.
And if you do.
It comes down to being consistent because if you try to create content in order
to force an outcome in order to get the followers, and it's, it takes time.
It takes time and effort, you would probably break down because
you can't fake yourself as much.
As you need to in order to build up those followers, build up this,
uh, uh, trust within the audience.
But if you do what you love, if you're just being yourself, you're
just talking to a friend and, and you know, even if you, if you, even
if you recommend products, right?
That's what you do for, that's what you love, you love, uh, uh, food, or
you'll have supplements, or you'll have restaurants or you'll love
whatever, and you just do this for fun because this is what you love and you.
Um, you, you would have the consistency and you have the commitment to do
this daily because again, coming back to the fun fact, or you just do
this for fun and it'll just build up.
But if you try to force it, if you try to say, Hey, this is a trend on TikTok.
Let's post daily, you will probably break up before you get this traction and
you get this exponential growth that is needed in order to actually make a living.
So it's not just about.
You know, the saying those nice words about a b be
authentic and you'll make money.
I think that actually backs up with the data and it backs up with our
human, um, uh, the, the way we are built as human beings, where we need
to have a purpose and we need to, to have, well, basically we need to
have fun in order to be consistent.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
I love that.
I mean, one of the things that you said there about being sensitive,
you know, the, the viewer, the people responding to your content
are very sensitive to your why.
Um, I, I've got down here a quote from you, uh, Tomer that, uh, you mentioned
previously said, what, when you realize it's all about who you serve and not
what you sell, then that's the main advantage for every brand, which I
thought was a phenomenal thing to say.
Um, understanding who you serve.
And being authentic to you and to that community seems to be, for me,
mixed with this idea of consistency, um, the way to win in this arena.
I guess my other observation is having now done this podcast for two
years, uh, it's not a quick thing.
I mean, there are people that rise through the ranks very quickly, it seems, but
on the whole, the majority of people.
Um, you, it's not like you start today and tomorrow it, it's all working fine.
Right?
I mean, we're, we're two years in.
We're still, I think we're getting better at understanding the journey and,
and what we're doing with the podcast.
Um, but we never started it out to make money.
We just started out, Cause we like talking about e-commerce.
We've met some amazing people along the way and now he is
actually helping us to make money.
But it took a little while.
I don't know if, if, if that's just me or if that's a general, a general.
Tomer Hen: I, I think, I think that's a general truth because nowadays you
have, so the days of just putting a product out there, and a product
could be an Amazon listing, it could be a Shopify store, it could be a
Facebook ad, it could be a podcast, it could be an email that you send out.
Mm-hmm.
. The days of just putting this product out there in the world and
expecting to just make money and get the attention are probably.
Um, so you need, you have a lot of competition, even if the upcoming
platforms like TikTok where you.
Uh, uh, uh, you know, comparably, you have less competition, but you
still have that competition of the attention of the budgets, of the, uh,
of, of the audience being resonating with whatever you have to say or sell.
So you have to be mindful and, and know that it would take time either way.
It would take time whether you do whatever you wanna do, and it would
take time if you wanna do whatever you think people want you to do.
So if you can keep up with creating content.
Every day or every week for month or years, um, you will probably win because
if you could resonate with even 50 people who would listen to your podcast
or read your posts, but it would be very, very, it would speak directly to
their hearts, It would speak directly to whatever they want to feel, and they
believe you and they believe in your why.
That is way more powerful than having 5,000.
You know, randomly, uh, uh, seeing your video on the TikTok algorithm because you
knew how to hack the, you know, the, the, the last hack of how to hack, you know,
the Instagram or the TikTok algorithm, because those people will follow you.
They believe you.
They will send this to your friend.
They will think about it after they watch your video or your content,
or listen to your podcast, and then they would also buy your product.
Mm-hmm.
. But people sometimes try.
Just sell a product.
They try to get to the end of it.
They, they think that if they learn the different, um, components
of the Amazon algorithms, they will build a successful brand.
But there is a huge difference, a huge difference between selling
a product and building a brand.
And when I say this, I don't just mean physical products.
I think that it has huge difference between putting a
very viral video on TikTok.
Or building a brand on TikTok or a podcast or whatever it is, because a brand is
someone or something that you choose to go after you choose to buy because
they believe in what you believe in.
Um, they, you know the reason, you know that they serve you.
And basically if you can get to a point where that, where,
where, where that person.
Feels and believe that you are the only person or the only brand
to help them with their journey.
That's where you win a customer or a fan for life.
That's what I believe in.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
And so true.
And uh, and it's a fascinating one, isn't it?
Because I mean, this applies, like you say, for selling hard
products, um, physical products, digital products, whatever it
is, the, the, the basic premises.
And, and I get asked all the time, you know, one of the big questions is why
would I set up an e-commerce website?
I can't compete with.
Right.
It's that how do I compete with Amazon?
And Amazon is great at being a commodity based website.
You go on there, you search it, you find it, you buy it.
I don't really know who I've bought it from.
I've just gone bought this product.
But more and more the consumer is going, No, no, Hang on a minute.
I wanna know a little bit more about this product.
I wanna know where it's come from.
I wanna know why you've made it.
I Do.
You know what I mean?
Like clothing.
We are moving away from fast fashion to people buying more sustainable clothing.
You see these trends, which are.
You can't do that on Amazon.
And so the way I think you compete with Amazon is you create a brand
voice and you tell that story and you connect with a customer in a way
that Amazon can't and never could do because they're a big supermarket.
They just sell commodities.
Whereas you are selling something, you're invested in.
Right.
You care deeply about these products and how they're gonna help people.
And I think that's the way you win, right?
Against people like Amazon.
So I'm living this, I'm living this whole, um, you know, you've gotta
develop again, that being sensitive to your why, your purpose, why are
you here and telling that story.
Super, super well, I mean is is incredible.
So let's talk a little bit more about the creator economy and.
Yeah, I mean, you've mentioned TikTok, you've mentioned Instagram,
but what are, what are some of the ways that we maybe should be
thinking about this creating economy?
What does it encompass?
What does it involve, Um, beyond just TikTok and Instagram.
Tomer Hen: Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, that's a great, that's a great question and a topic
that I love talking about.
Um, You know, there, according to the data, there, there are about 50 million
content creator with a certain certain threshold, and only about four of them,
uh, said that they, they're able to make living out of the content that they
make and for, for different reasons.
Some of them, we, we actually mentioned here on our conversation
and the today, the most common way for creators to monetize their content.
Uh, collaborating with another brand or, uh, getting sponsorships from other
brands or having some affiliate deals with other brands and promote them.
But I think that nowadays, and you know, We go into a recession, a
lot of creators say that, uh, they feel too dependent on those brands.
They feel that they are bind, they are bind to the regulations,
those brands put up on them, what they can say, what they can't say,
how they can present the product.
And eventually there is this conflict between they need to serve the brand,
but they also need to make money and they also need to serve their
audience and be authentic to themselves as of what, what we just said.
I think that although it's pretty easy to hook up with another brand or just
get, you know, X amount of dollars or, or a percentage of a sale with another
brand, I think if a creator really wants to level up their game, both
personally, financially, professionally, is to build their own brand.
You know, I, I, I know how to build consumer brand.
So it could be any type of brand, it could be an, uh, a digital product brand,
it could be a physical product brand.
Um, but creators who are starting to build, and we see this more
and more in the creator economy where, um, creators say, Hey, I
don't want to work for that brand.
I wanna say whatever I wanna say, and my content is my product, and
I could attach a physical product.
To my content and my audience and share whatever I believe
in, not just for my content, but also through physical product.
It could be a makeup brand, it could be a supplement brand, it
could be a food brand, it could be, um, you know, uh, a car organizer.
It could be.
All sorts of brands that relate to the audience that you serve.
Not necessarily just your following, but the person, again, coming
back to that person who follows you, who is your biggest fan?
What can you produce to him?
What can you bring to the world that would serve them as a person?
Um, that would.
That would probably be way more successful by all means than any brand that you
could collaborate with just because you can get as specific to saying whatever
it is that you specifically want to say and you want to bring to the world.
And as a creator, you have, you know, you have a very specific voice
and this is the reason why you.
So many views than your competitors.
You then you get, you know, the attention of other followers.
Once you find that voice and you realize who is that person, why they are special,
and why they follow you, what they believe in, what's the journey that they go with.
Um, it's very easy to build a physical product brand around that person.
And because you have, you already have the attention and you have the cred.
It, it would be pretty easy for you.
Um, well, I would say it's pretty simple.
It's not always easy to build a physical product brand around, around that person.
So I'm, I'm really fascinated by all those creators, uh, at different
stages where they said, I don't wanna work for those bigger brands.
I don't wanna work, I don't want to promote something that I don't believe in.
Um, they, they do, um, they do state a very bold statement and decision
where they know they might give up.
Immediate income, but for the sake of being truly independent with the
messaging that they, they convey to their audience, uh, the amount of money
they can make and the product that they wanna promote on their channels.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I
mean that's, that's really fascinating that, and we've talked about this
before on the show, um, when it comes to influences and, and using influences and,
uh, Why brands, why the brand themselves, you know, do they wanna use influence?
Because actually now the power is starting to, with the influences
going, actually I'm not quite sure I wanna work with that brand anymore.
And like, and like you said, I think it's quite fascinating the turn
of events now and the technology.
Like we had, uh, the get car on the show, uh, David from Get Car and he was talking
about this, you know, and about how you can um, you can now start to leverage
technology to build out platforms.
That enable you to create your own website, you're, you're an influencer.
You've got the content out there where you can now sell, uh, product
directly off the back of that.
So if you were, um, Toma, if you were launching an e-commerce business
today, Is this how you would start?
Would you go right, I'm, I'm gonna, I have a product.
Um, uh, and I know you've got a supplement brand, haven't you?
So I've got this product here.
I'm gonna go and find a community that that product connects with and I'm gonna
go, uh, connect with that community.
I'm gonna speak to that community.
I'm be consistent in my content creation.
That reaches out to that community, and that's how I'm gonna grow my brand.
I'm gonna be authentic.
I'm gonna be consistent.
It might not make money today, but ultimately I know I'm gonna
win if I'm in there every day.
Is that how you would do it?
Tomer Hen: Yes.
I, I would even, I would even go.
Deeper and and perhaps do whatev what you said, but I would even flip
that around and say, I want to find that community that I want to serve.
And then I would build a brand around them.
And what most people do is trying to develop product, or they already develop
and produce the product and then say, Okay, now let's find who wants to.
Or let's find influencers or the communities or the groups that
would be interested in my product rather than just going and say,
Hey, there's a community here.
They are very loyal to that journey.
They are very, um, they are very, uh, uh, excited about these kind of
products or they have these very urgent problems and I could really resonate.
Person with that journey, with that problem.
Now let's find the solutions that we could create in order to help them.
And those solutions could turn into content.
They could turn into physical product, they can tell into a book,
a digital product, and it could turn into a brand that consists all
of these aspects together, right?
You can launch a book that sells a supplement brand.
When, uh, uh, as a, as an apps you can, uh, launch, uh, uh, you can
work with an influencer to create, uh, uh, an Instagram, uh, uh, uh,
uh, content that would, uh, that would serve that, that audience and
that would promote your food brand.
So, one, but it's the same person, It's the same audience, it's
the same community, it's just different form of solutions.
And once that person.
Have seen your, your content on Instagram and they read your book and they got
this email from you, they would probably buy your product because they believe
that you are the best person and this is the best brand for them to solve their
problem or to progress on their journey.
And this is how I see brand building as opposed to just trying to sell products
in this highly competitive market.
Matt Edmundson: I, I wish I could just hit listeners.
If you're listening, just hit the rewind button and just listen to that
paragraph again because I think I was writing about this this morning
where, where 99% of e-commerce businesses fail is they will just go
and get any old product and then go.
I now need to figure out how to sell this, right?
Mm-hmm.
, and it's, it's, it's totally backwards.
It's totally the wrong way around.
Um, and the classic bond, you know, was with the drop shipping for years.
We've talked about this before in the show.
Again, it's, you know, the, the, you go to Alibaba or wherever,
you know Ali Express, and you find some sunglasses, which are like $2.
And you think I can sell those for 20.
So I'm gonna make 18 bucks for a pair of sun glasses.
And you've just gone and grabbed any old nonsense.
The triple is 30,000.
Other websites are selling that same pair of sunglasses, right?
How have you differentiated yourself?
You just haven't your beige or vanilla, right?
You're just blending in.
Um, but I, I just, I, this is why I love it, because actually no, no, no.
The other way around is like, Understand who the community
is that you are gonna serve.
What's it, what do they need?
How can I help them?
How can I best serve them?
Much, much better way.
Because then you're finding products that actually people want to really buy
Yeah.
You know, and it's, and it, and it's that kind of, that, that
to me just makes a lot of sense.
An awful lot of sense.
I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm sat here listening to the podcast, right?
I've, let's assume I've already got an e-commerce business up and running.
Um, I've already got a, so I've got a small community.
Uh, I'm, I'm selling a, a product.
I, I'm just looking around my desk for what it is.
Um, I have, uh, , I dunno if I should show you this.
I have here, uh, my Lego Indiana Jones.
Uh, I'm a, I'm a bit of a fan of Lego Indiana Jones for reasons
which I won't bore you with, but I, I do like my, my little indie,
uh, Indiana Jones Lego there.
So let's say I'm selling, you know, sort of unique Lego.
Sort of things.
And I've got, I've got my community going on and, and, you know, people
are buying from me and what are sort of some of the things that I should
be thinking about from a content creation here, um, that's gonna help
me from an e-commerce point of view.
Tomer Hen: Right.
Yeah, that's, that's a great, uh, case study.
So let's say that you already have your, your Indiana John, Lego store and you
just solve it because you could find it, you're passionate about it or whatever.
It's, So I would do two things.
I would first, the first step that I would do is I would find
out who are your best customers?
And I would speak to them.
I would have phone calls with them.
I would send questionnaires.
I would counter their house, whatever you can.
To find out who is that person and by saying who is that person?
Sometimes brand owners or store owners mistake by saying, Okay,
my audience is a 20 to 55 year old male from the United States
Right.
That's not a person.
, that's,
Matt Edmundson: Sorry, I'm laughing cause I'm agreeing with you.
Sorry.
Tomer Hen: That's no, I mean that's, that's really not a person and you don't
have someone who is between 20 to 55.
You have a person.
At a certain age with a certain interest and certain reasons.
That's the main thing and that's the main thing that you need to find out.
What is the reason they're buying your products?
Because there is a reason.
They are buying this product.
It's not just because it's not random choices.
There's a reason why they wanted to exchange or hard earn, hard earned dollars
for that product from us specifically.
And you need to find out why is that Once you find out why they buy your product
and what problem does it solve for them or what, how does it improve their life?
This is where you, the next step would be is to find out where they hang out.
Content do they consume?
What TV shows do they watch?
What podcast do they listen to?
What Instagram pages do they follow and what communities do they hang out?
Right?
If you have a product, a fitness product, and you realize that your best customers,
the ones that always buy your product are, uh, CrossFit trainers, right?
You can find out where do they hang out?
Do they hang out at their CrossFit gyms?
Do they hang out in.
Three groups on Facebook and go to these communities and find out
how you can better serve people who are like them, people who are
from that same, um, uh, profile or the same persona as your audience.
And.
Talk about why you do what you do.
Talk about why your product is the best product for these people.
And you have this data.
If you, if you have this data because you already interviewed your best customers,
the ones that always come back and buy again and again and again, they don't
buy because you, your product costs $5 less than the cheapest one on Amazon.
Otherwise only the cheapest product on Amazon or in the internet would sell.
But that's the case.
There's a reason why people buy a certain item.
Even if it's a higher price.
So, or even if it's not the first result on the Amazon search result, right?
So once you know this information and you get to understand it, just go in these
communities, go talk to these creators.
Go talk to these influencers or those community leaders and find out how
you can serve them and the community that they manage if you don't have
your own community, but, If you wanna build your own community, that's
also something that you can do by understanding how you can serve them.
So, for example, if they, um, bought your product because they want to spend
more quality time with their children, find out how else you could help them
spend more quality time with their children regardless of your product.
Just because, you know, we all know that people don't buy.
Your product, they buy what your product makes them feel.
Mm-hmm.
once figure out what it makes them feel, or at least what they want
this product to make them feel.
Just find out how you can make them feel that in, regardless of your products.
If so, if you were able as a brand or as a person to make them feel a
certain way, they will always remember.
That feeling and they would connect your brand to that feeling, and
then the decision making would be so much easier and clear to them
that they would not even look for any other cheaper product in Amazon.
They would go on Amazon and look for your brand and if your brand would not
be there, they will go and look for it in Google and go to your website and buy it.
Because whenever someone goes on Amazon and not looking for your
brand, but is looking for Indiana.
You know, Lego is a brand, but let's say that they want a Indiana Jones, uh,
uh, figure or uh, a doll or whatever it is, they are Amazon's customer.
If your product would not be there, they will buy for someone else
that Amazon Choses to promote, But.
If, uh, uh, but as long as they go on Amazon and not looking specifically
for your brand, and even if they bought directly from you and Amazon,
they, they are still Amazon customers.
The day you want to be on Amazon, they will buy for someone else.
So if you created a brand that, that made them feel a certain way, that is
way stronger than, you know, any amount of money, uh, up to a certain point
that, uh, they can find on Amazon.
And if you made them feel.
You know, a stronger feeling, they would be happy to pay
more just to get that feeling.
And a brand is basically a symbol for them to feel something they wanna, mm-hmm.
feel a part of a certain community.
They wanna, they want the brand to say something about them.
And that is the reason why we see, you know, clothing brands.
Could sell the same T-shirt, but just with the tiniest logo or even, not
even something that you can see on the outside, but someone who bought it
knows that when they buy this specific closing brand, even if they can buy the
same shirt with a different store at half the price or quarter the price,
they know and they feel something, something about themselves when they buy.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's, Are there any brands that sort of
come to mind that do this for you?
As in, you know, it could be any brand, uh, , but where you think they've,
they've done that story really well and they've just sort of captured
you and, and you've bought into it?
Tomer Hen: Um, I could say, I could say something about
Starbucks, you know, you could buy probably better.
Cheaper coffee in many other locations, many other places.
But something about the consistency, something about the fact that he created
sort of a community or a place for you to be anywhere you go out in the
world and you'll be able to go and get the same experience and get a sense
of, um, I would say staying at home, but something that is familiar to you.
I think that made it way better than any other coffee chain out there, although.
Could agree that you could get probably better coffee in so
many other, so many other places.
. Mm-hmm.
. Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: I'm sure you can.
I mean, I, I don't drink coffee, but I, I'm sure you can.
It's, um, it's interesting that you mentioned Starbucks.
Uh, there I wasn't expecting you to come up with Starbucks.
I'm not gonna like, so I, That's, that's, that's interesting.
Um.
So I've called my customer, right?
I've researched them.
I've, uh, I've had lots of conversations with various different people, and I'm
starting to understand what's going on and how I can serve, uh, my community.
Is there anything else I need to, um, because we've not really talked about the
tactics, which I'm quite pleased about.
I do this on Instagram because, No, no.
No matter what we talk about in six weeks time, you'll be outta date anyway.
Right?
Because the, the, the whole thing just moves on a, at, at a rapid pace.
But the principles stay the same.
The tactics change, but the principles stay the same.
And I like the fact you've, you've talked about the principles.
Um, what are some of the other, the, the, the key principles
that I need to be aware of?
Tomer Hen: Right.
Um, yeah.
I, I, I like talking about principles because, because I think you could just
implement it across different channels.
It's.
Probably timeless.
And you know, whether if, if we go back to, to being creators, so whether you are
a creator in TikTok, whether you have an email list, whether you have a Facebook
group, whether you just run, um, you know, your, your neighborhood community meetups.
It's the same principle where once you find out that, Person needs
and you are able to fulfill it.
Then you have a business that's like something that was never changed, but
it's so basic and that people sometime overlook this very basic principle that
could make everything else so much easier.
Once you realize that, because then.
Your hesitation around, um, uh, what product should they sell?
What should be my headline?
What kind of colors should I use?
They all go by because you know that the, the decor of your business is that need.
So I think that if you go back to being a creator, I think
that, uh, having the audience.
A part of your brand journey is something that we've seen across multiple
brands that rally people together, and instead of you just launching a
brand saying, Hey, I've just worked on it for seven months, and here is
my makeup brand, please buy this now.
They have no idea why you created this brand.
It just seemed like very transactional content or very
transactional relationship.
And, and I, I've not done this enough, but the one thing that I would do, um,
launching my, my supplement brand for entrepreneurs would be to, uh, document
my journey, share it with an audience.
And if I, if any creator that, that I consult to where I work with, I always
tell them, Whenever you came up with this idea, this, this initial thought
of launching the brand, share it.
Share it because.
People who would follow you, even if these are just five people who would resonate
with it or remember what you just said.
Even if it's just a glimpse, it will build up and you create this, uh, curiosity,
You create this sense of why you tell people about the entire process of, you
know, hey, this is, this has been taking me 7, 8, 9 month of my life working on it
since I just came up with, you know, the inception of the idea until you can see.
In your hands and, and people have followed you.
People know the struggles.
People know how much thought you've put onto it.
So sharing your journey, whether it would be through your content, your
emails, uh, just talking with a lot of people in your, in your community or
your friends, your colleagues, whoever.
You can just talk about your brand.
And I think that also comes, uh, you know, most people.
Do the opposite.
They feel that once they have an idea, they need to be very, uh, they
need to keep it as a secret, right?
Mm-hmm.
, I, I, someone would steal my idea.
They would copy me, they would this and that.
And I think that once you realize that you have a very strong why, you know, and you
have this confidence, then no one could.
Copy you.
No one can really do what is the one thing that you do because mm-hmm.
, you build a relationship with those people once you share.
Your journey and you share your why with a certain person.
And people sometimes mistake that they speak to an audience, but they don't
speak to an audience or to a niche.
They speak to multiple individual human beings who listen to you and
create this kind of relationship with you, and this relationship that you
build is something that no one could ever copy, even if they sell the exact
same product and use the same ads.
This relationship, the combination of your why, your journey,
your struggles, your thought.
And the product is something that is very unique to you.
Um, so you, you also build that confidence that no one could ever copy you.
The, the opposite is true.
You want to collaborate with your competition.
You want them to be rallied on your, your cause and your journey
because you know that once you have more people on board, they would
share your jour, they will share.
And they will share, uh, um, uh, the value that your brand is
uniquely providing to the market.
Mm-hmm.
. And that's, that's an amazing feeling.
And I've been, you know, being an entrepreneur for
so long, I've been in, in.
This state of mind where you have to be very envy of your ideas.
You have to keep them as a secret.
You can't share with them with anyone.
You're afraid that your team, your parents, your sister, your, you
know, anyone would just copy you if you just tell them about it.
And that's a, this is not as part with the fun factor because it's not fun.
And b, it just very, very, very stressful.
Being on the other side of it, knowing that you would get more value by
sharing more and talking more about it.
And people sense this excitement, whether it's a one on one conversation and whether
it's a one to a hundred thousand people.
People sense this excitement.
Again, coming back to being authentic, being yourself.
When you are excited about what you're doing and why you're doing it, and
the products that you sell, it shows out to the world and people really
buy into that, that excitement.
People go on social media because basically they wanna be excited.
They wanna see someone who is excited about something and
get some of that excitement.
Um, so just, just give it out to them.
But if you sell something just because you saw it on Jungle Scout
and you feel that it would rank up better on Amazon, people would sense
that it's not very exciting for you.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, Yeah.
And I, There's no
longevity to it either.
Um, whereas what you are talking about, actually there's
some real longevity to that.
Um, I just wanna circle back to, uh, I'm aware of time here, Tomer, so I,
I, but I, I do wanna circle back to something that you said, which I think is
quite important, document your journey.
Um, I, I know that a lot of, uh, entrepreneurs out there break out
into a cold sweat when you talk to 'em about social media or, you
know, creating content and it's just like, I dunno what to say.
I dunno what to Do, you know, what I mean?
And, and it's like this thing just.
This wall just instantly goes up.
Um, and actually for me, what I found at one of the keys here is, is
like you say, Document the journey.
I came across this great phrase, document Don't create.
And I thought that was quite a fascinating, I dunno where it came from,
but I thought it was a fascinating phrase.
And I've been doing a little bit of an experiment recently.
I've been putting out, um, like a seven to ten second video of
my day, just like with, uh, on Instagram as an Instagram reel.
Just little snippets like one to one and a half seconds long
throughout the day, just a with a text comment on there and some music.
Various numbers of people have watched this from, you know, several
thousand to just a few hundred.
I, I don't really care.
I, what I can tell you is, um, that I've been consistent at doing it and
it just documents my day and I've connected with some extraordinary
people as a result, uh, who have got in touch and just gone, Man, that's great.
And, um, I find that that just something as simple as that document don't
create, I think will be a big, big help.
So, How do people reach you?
How do they get hold of you?
Uh, what's the best way to do that?
Because undoubtedly there's gonna be more questions.
Uh, I I have a whole lot more.
Uh, so , how do people, uh, connect with you if they wanna do that?
Tomer Hen: Yeah.
Thank you so much for that and I'm always happy to speak to excited,
enthusiastic entrepreneurs.
So, uh, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn, so you can, uh, look
for my handle on LinkedIn or you can go on Tomer hand.co co.
Um, uh, to just.
Join my mailing list and get some updates from me.
Some, uh, insights and nuggets, uh, of about brand building entrepreneurship.
Uh, I just do this for fun, to be honest.
Um, my business is to help entrepreneurs and creators build their brands.
Um, but I, and that's what my company does.
So, uh, I always love talking to entrepreneurs, uh, creators, influencer.
Uh, anyone who would like to, uh, to build a business, so,
or, or grow their business.
So very happy to connect.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, fantastic.
And we will of course, put all of those links in the show notes.
Um, uh, but uh, yeah, do get in touch.
Do connect with Tomer, I'm sure.
I'd love to hear from you.
Tomer, thank you so much for being with us here on the eCommerce podcast.
Honestly, genuinely loved it.
Uh, you're a top like, and thank you for sharing all your wisdom.
Tomer Hen: Thank you so much, Matt.
It's been great and thank you for everyone for.
Matt Edmundson: So there you have it.
What a fantastic conversation.
Huge.
Thanks again to Timer for joining me today.
Uh, and also a huge thanks and big shout out to today's show
sponsor e-commerce cohort.
Do head over to ecommercecohort.com for more information about this new
type of membership, uh, and community.
I'll be.
Come along, come and join in now.
Be sure to subscribe to the e-commerce podcast wherever you get your podcast
from because we've got some great conversations lined up, let me tell you.
And I don't want you to miss any of them.
And in case no one has told you today, you my friend.
Are awesome.
Utterly, utterly awesome.
The E-Commerce podcast is produced by Aurion Media.
You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app.
The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon, Josh Catchpole,
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Our theme song is written by me and my fantastic son Josh Edmundson.
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So that's it from me.
Thank you so much for joining me.
Have a fantastic week.
I will see you next time, but you know,