Hello

and

welcome

to

the

whole

truth

leadership

stories

with

Sarah

Perugia,

I'm

delighted

to

say

that

in

every

episode

of

this

podcast,

I'll

be

speaking

to a

values

led

leader

who

will

share

their

vision,

their

mission,

their

purpose,

and,

of

course,

their

unique

leadership

story.

I'm

Sarah,

I'm

your

host.

I'm a

whole

person,

leadership

transformation

specialist,

executive

leadership

master

coach

and

keynote

speaker,

and

I'm

on a

mission.

My

mission

is to

help

leaders

and

teams

operate

at

their

best,

fulfill

their

potential

and

enjoy

the

journey

too.

I've

spent

20

years

helping

organizations

all

over

the

world,

helping

them

to

develop

their

top

talent

and

build

inclusive,

connected,

collaborative,

gender

equal

teams.

What

I've

noticed

over

the

last

two

decades

of

doing

this

amazing

job

is

how

much

we

benefit

from

hearing

other

people's

stories.

When

I

host

events,

I

often

hear

the

feedback

that

the

audience

listening

to

leaders,

share

their

personal

stories.

Share

their

mission,

their

vision,

their

passions,

but

also

their

vulnerability

and

their

challenges,

has

been

really

inspiring

and

energizing

and

educational

and

really

help

those

people

in

the

audience

find

their

vision,

their

mission,

their

passion,

and

understand

that

they're

not

alone

in

their

challenges.

So

that's

what

we're

hoping

to do

in

this

podcast,

to

share

that

energy

and

that

inspiration.

So if

you're

a

leader

or an

aspiring

leader,

and

you're

in

search

of

your

career

vision,

perhaps

you're

wondering

what

your

mission

is.

Perhaps

you're

looking

to

enhance

performance

or

find

your

unique

voice,

or

perhaps

uncover

the

joy

in

your

career

journey.

This

podcast

is

for

you.

I am

absolutely

delighted

to

welcome

Dr

Sade

Mokuolu

to

this

week's

podcast

conversation

shaaday.

Welcome.

Welcome.

It's

so

wonderful

to be

in

conversation

with

you

today.

I'm

I'm

really

pleased,

really

thrilled

to be

on

here.

So

thanks

to

Sarah.

Oh

brilliant.

Well,

look,

Sade,

let

me,

let

me

introduce

you a

little

bit.

I'm

sure

I

will

do

this

very

much

as a

lay

person.

So do

fill

in

any

gaps

that

I

leave.

So

Doctor

Sade

Mokuolu

is a

chemist.

She

has a

doctorate

in

organometallic

chemistry,

if

I've

got

that

right,

I

know

that

she

is

part

of

the

exec

team

at

Watson.

Marlowe,

she

leads

the

global

corporate

strategy

for a

400

million

pound

business

unit.

And

Sade,

I

know

you've

done

so

much

to

positively

impact

those

around

you

with

your

leadership

style,

and

also

you're

a

really

active

campaigner

for

gender

diversity

in

STEM

as

well.

So

there's

so

many

questions

that

I

have

for

you.

Let's

see

if we

can

squeeze

it

into

half

an

hour.

Sade,

is

there

anything

to

add

to

that

very

brief

biog

that

is

important

to

tell

us

about,

about

you?

I

think

some

of

the

things

to

add

would

be

around,

you

know,

that

change

from

doing

quite

a

very

technical

role

to

moving

to

more

of a

business

function

role,

and

some

of

the,

you

know,

ways

that

that

can,

that

can

happen,

absolutely

yes.

And

you

know,

I

have

been

lucky

enough

to

work

with

you

and

seeing

a

little

bit

of

that,

that

journey

into

into

senior

leadership,

what

I

would

love

to

hear

a

little

bit

Sade

is,

is

your

philosophy

of

leadership,

because

I

know

you

have

a

very

particular

leadership

style.

So

tell

us a

little

bit

about

how

you

would

describe

your,

perhaps

your

your

journey

and

your

learnings

and

that

style

that

you've

built

up

over

many

years.

Yeah,

I

mean,

I'm,

I'm

really

about

sort

of

empathetic

leadership.

I

know

there's

different

words

for

it

now,

but I

think,

you

know,

my

leadership

style

is

really

about,

you

know,

how

can

we

get

the

best

out

of

the

team?

How

can

we

work

together

as a

team?

How

can

we

learn

from

each

other

and

co.

Create

along

that

concept

of

that

co

creation

between

the

team

members

and,

you

know,

being

the

kind

of

this,

the

sum

of,

you

know,

everyone's

contribution

being

much

more

than

a

single

person's

contribution.

And

for

that

to

happen,

for

you

to

create

that

type

of

leadership,

you

know,

there

really

has

to be

a lot

of

empathy

from

the

leadership

as

well

as a

lot

of

trust.

There's

got

to be

high

trust

levels

in

the

leadership

to

make

sure

that

people

feel

empowered

to do

the

right

things

and,

you

know,

work

together

and

really

drive

forward

together.

So I

think

that's

a big

part

of my

leadership

style,

and

I've

definitely

witnessed

the

incredible

impact

of

that

leadership

style.

I

wonder

if

there's

somebody

listening

to

you

Sade,

thinking,

Yes,

that

sounds

lovely,

but

what

about

those

business

goals.

Tell

me

about

what

do

you

think

the

impact

of

that

kind

of

trust

based,

empathetic

leadership

style

is on

business

results?

I,

in my

experience,

I've

seen

that

they've

driven

incredible

business

results

actually,

because,

I

think

because

people

feel

empowered,

they

have

a big

ownership

in

that

co

creation

of

the

story.

You

know

of

that,

you

know

business.

You

know,

whatever

that

business

goal

is,

they

they

feel

part

of

that.

They

feel

part

of

delivering

that.

And I

think

you

know

that

sense

of

ownership

that

each

of

the

individuals

of

the

team.

App

can

be

very

powerful,

and

it's

so

powerful

that

it

allows

them

to,

you

know,

to

move

beyond

themselves

and

beyond

what

they

feel

their,

you

know,

their

kind

of,

you

know,

areas

of

maybe

weakness

may

be

they

move

beyond

that

because

they

feel

that

they're

part

of

that

team

that's

gonna

make,

make

sure

that

they

deliver,

you

know,

deliver

on

the

on

the

business

goal.

So I,

you

know,

I

think

there's

definitely

something

to be

said

by

giving

people

that

sense

of

ownership,

that

empowerment

and

that

empathy,

that

okay,

we're

not

always

gonna

get

things

right

right.

Sometimes

you

have

to

learn

from

what,

what

you

know,

some

of

the

mistakes

that

happen,

you

know,

and

as a

team,

if

you

can,

if

you

can

get

to a

situation

where

people

feel

safe

enough

that

they

can

make

mistakes,

they

can

learn

from

those

mistakes,

you

then

become

have

a

really

empowered

team

moving

forward

that

can,

that

feel

that

they

can

accomplish

anything

absolutely,

I

completely

agree

with

you,

and

that's

something

as as

a

coach

and a

team

development

specialist

that

I see

all

the

time.

You

know,

my

background

in

positive

psychology

tells

me

there's

so

much

data

that

says

if we

feel

supported

and

trusted,

if we

feel

connected,

if we

feel

safe

to

fail,

yeah,

we

are

going

to be

on an

incredible

journey,

and

we're

going

to

achieve

incredible

business

results

and

have

a

great

time

on

the

way,

which

absolutely

so

important,

especially

in

today's,

you

know,

corporate

world,

you

know,

I

think

it's

more,

you

know,

when

you

get

to a

certain

level,

I

think

it's

more

about

what

you're

achieving

personally,

the

growth

that

you're

achieving

personally,

as

well

as

the,

obviously,

the

the

results

the

business

has,

right?

It's

more

that

personal

growth,

and,

you

know,

increasing

that

personal

power,

but

being

able

to do

that

within

the

context

and

framework

of a

highly

functioning

team,

right?

Absolutely,

absolutely.

I

wonder

Sade.

Do

you

have

some

key

experiences

that

you

would

go

back

to

that

have

really

taught

you

around

some

of

these

fundamental

principles

that

you

have,

those

beliefs

that

you

have

in

what

makes

great

leadership.

Did

you

have

a

particular

moment

or a

particular

mentor

that

demonstrated

these

principles

for

you.

I

think

you

know

over,

I

think

in

the

most

recent

years,

probably

I

have

had

the

you

know,

seen,

obviously

being

able

to to

understand

how

leadership

works.

But I

think

some

of

the

basis

of

this,

of

what

I'm

thinking

about

now

in

terms

of

what

defines,

you

know,

good

leadership

styles,

is

probably

some

of

the

actual

negative

experiences

I've

witnessed

in

the

past.

And

you

know,

from

the

result

of

some

of

those

experiences,

you

kind

of.

Are

thinking,

well,

that's

probably

not

the

best

thing

to

do,

right?

You

know,

where

in my

earlier

career,

I was

in

situations

in

organizations

where

there

was a

very

different

feeling,

you

know,

about

leadership.

You

know,

is

more

you

know,

it's

more

autocratic

style

of

leadership,

you

know,

more

bureaucratic

style

of

leadership,

which

often

doesn't

favor

that

co

creation

and

that

and

people

feeling

empowered,

or

people

feeling

connected

to

the

organization,

or

even

their

colleagues

around

them.

You

know,

so

having

worked

previously

in

those

in my

earlier

part

of my

career,

in

some

of

those

organizations,

it

kind

of

helped

me to

start

to

understand

what

not

to

do,

right?

And

then

from

there,

you

know,

as

I've

grown

within

my

career,

I've

obviously

gone

become

involved

in

different

organizations

that

have

had

kind

of a

different

leadership

style.

And I

have

had

people

with

different

leadership

styles

that

I've

come

to,

you

know,

look

at

and

admire

and

think,

actually,

that's,

that's

a

great

way

of

being

a

good

leader,

right?

You

know,

because

it's

it to

me,

it's

not

about

the

leader,

the

leader

themselves.

It's

more

about

the,

I

suppose,

the

the

atmosphere

that

they

create

in

that

team,

right?

Yeah,

no,

they,

there's

all

that

stuff

about

shadow

of a

leader

and

things

like

this.

But

it's

actually,

you

know,

it's

actually

that

that

post,

you

know,

that

feeling,

that

anything

is

possible

with

enough,

you

know,

passion

and

enough

hard

work

and

enough

camaraderie,

you

know,

and

engagement

and

empowerment

and

and

and

being

able

to

project

that

and

have

the

team

feel

that,

I

think,

you

know,

can

lead

to

really

great,

Great

things.

Absolutely,

yeah,

I

completely

agree,

and I

know

Sade

that

you

are

such

a

passionate

leader,

and

you

bring

so

much

warmth

and

such

a

sense

of

mission

to

what

you

do.

And

how

interesting

to

hear

that

actually

a lot

of

that

learning

came

from

what

you

saw

didn't

work

in

your

early

career,

and

what

I'm

hearing

is a

lot

of

passion,

a lot

of

values

driven

leadership,

but

also

a

sense

of

everyone

feeling

included

and

able

to

thrive,

which

segues

us

nicely

into

thinking

about

inclusion,

which

is

also

a

topic,

of

course,

that

you

and I

have

talked

about

it at

great

length

before,

how

has

your

journey

been

impacted

by

being

a

woman,

by

being

a

woman

of

color,

and

quite

often,

from

your

experiences

that

you

shared

with

me

being

perhaps

The

only

woman

in

the

room?

Yeah,

I

think

that.

I

mean,

that's

something

that's

changing.

You

know,

I

would

say

in

the

early

part

of my

career

that

was,

it

was

something

that

I had

to

get

used

to. I

really,

you

know,

having,

especially

having

come

from

a

very

multicultural,

diverse

background.

I

grew

up in

London.

I was

born

in

London,

so I

grew

up in

Hackney,

which

is

one

of

the,

like,

most

culturally

diverse,

you

know,

boroughs

in in

North

London.

So,

you

know,

then

with

going

to

university,

and

then

finding

that

I

was,

you

know,

maybe

one

of a

handful

of of

black

people,

and I

was

probably

the

only

black

woman

on my

chemistry

course,

and

then

moving

on to

do my

PhD

and

find

out

again,

I was

the

only

black

woman

on

the

on my

in

my,

you

know,

year

at

university

that,

you

know,

that

was

kind

of a

shocker.

It

kind

of

took

me a

while

to

kind

of

sit

in

that

and

be

comfortable

and

and I

and I

think,

you

know,

there's

obviously

the

impact

of of

that,

you

know,

there's

the

social

impact

of

that.

But I

think

one

of

the

things

I

would

say

is

I've

always,

I've,

I've

always

kind

of

made

sure

that

that

didn't

impact

me as

a

person,

as in

the

way I

come

across

to

people,

you

know,

it's

my

natural,

you

know,

enthusiastic,

always,

you

know,

big,

smiley,

kind

of

enthusiastic

person.

And

and I

know

that

sometimes

that

probably

was a

challenge

in

some

of

the

environments

that

I was

in

that,

you

know,

who

is

this

per

you

know,

some

of

these

people

must

have

been,

who

it

who's

this

person

coming

and,

you

know,

she's

not

like

us,

you

know,

kind

of

thing.

So I

think

from,

I