Speaker: 00:00:28

Today I'm having a conversation with Tara Halliday.

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Tara is an executive coach with over 25 years of experience and in recognized specialist

in imposter syndrome.

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She's the author of two

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Amazon number one best sellers, "Outsmart Imposter Syndrome" and "Unmasking: the Coach's

Guide to Imposter Syndrome".

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Tara created the inner success program,an eight week one-to-one coaching journey designed

specifically for executives to eliminate imposter syndrome at its root, restoring calm,

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clarity and confidence.

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Welcome Clara to "Poder aprender".

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I'm delighted to be here, Walter.

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Thank you for having me.

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What is the difference between lacking confidence in a new skill, like learning a language

and

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truly experiencing imposter syndrome?

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That's a brilliant question, Walter, because you can have imposter syndrome and be

learning a new language, and you can be learning a language and not have imposter

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syndrome.

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So where would you separate them out?

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So when you're learning a language, imposter syndrome will show up in several ways.

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So imposter syndrome is the secret feeling of being a fraud, of being not quite good

enough, and feeling that you'll be found out, feel like you don't belong.

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And it affects over 70 % of people.

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So if you're learning a language, if you're building skills, likely you're one of the

people with imposter syndrome.

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It's not a personality trait, it's not a flaw or anything like that.

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And we'll get into more of what it is in a bit.

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But how it'll show up is fundamentally self doubt.

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And it's self doubt in terms of, say you're learning a language and you're three weeks in.

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and you're comparing yourself to other people and you think, I'll never get there.

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I'm stuck, you know, there's so much better than I am.

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So that comparison will drag you down.

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Who am I to, who do I think I can learn another language?

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Who am I to do that?

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Yes.

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Or I'll never get there.

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So it creates a lot of self doubt.

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I was a lot of self criticism.

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Particularly,

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one of the symptoms of imposter syndrome is perfectionism.

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So if you're perfectionist, then you want to do everything right first time.

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And so being a learner in any area at all, it's really uncomfortable because it doesn't

feel like you don't have the feeling like, I'm just learning.

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So it's okay to make mistakes.

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It's I'm, I must be good at this right away and mistakes are bad.

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And so that can put this whole load of pressure onto you.

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And so that's really where it'll come out most in terms of your language learning and your

skills learning.

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It makes a lot of sense and I appreciate that.

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You say that we can learn still with when we're lacking in confidence.

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Otherwise it would be so hard to make progress.

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Yeah, and one of the things that's really important is...

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to believe that you'll be able to do it.

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So this is part of confidence is to believe that yes, you will be able to do it if you

persevere.

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And also if you have the right support, know, there's, people feel alone with imposter

syndrome.

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They feel so isolated.

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They feel like they're the only one who's struggling.

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And then they beat themselves up for struggling because, I'm not good enough because I'm

struggling.

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Nobody else seems to be struggling.

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Even if you go to a language class, you might look around and think,

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Everybody else is doing so much better than me.

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All of those kind of comparisons, these sneaky things creep in.

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So any support that you can get is really, really valuable.

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So that support in terms of teachers, in terms of peers and colleagues who are learning at

the same time as you, it's podcasts like this.

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Anywhere you can find it, it's gonna be helpful.

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So what you're saying, what I hear you saying is that keeping it inside, invisible makes

it easier to, and it's giving its sustenance.

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And when we are bringing that outside, when we put it to the light, it's more challenging.

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and it's harder to exist.

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Yes, would say that's definitely.

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So em imposter syndrome gets triggered where you've got a combination of high challenge

and low support.

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So the more support you give, we don't want to take the challenge down.

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We don't say, I won't bother learning a language, right?

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We don't want to take challenge down, but the more support we give, the easier it's going

to be.

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And the more support we have, the more we stop blaming ourselves.

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Now, one of the things about imposter syndrome is people think that it's them that's

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something wrong with them, it's personality flaw or weakness or something like that.

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And so they don't talk about it.

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You're right, people keep it a secret because they're embarrassed about it.

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And when you keep it a secret, that perpetuates this feeling that you're not quite good

enough, that everybody else is doing so much better than you, or you should be further

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along, that whole I should be this, that and the other is really the

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There's something I see in the community of language learners and other skills as well is

that

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people start thinking that they are not talented when something feels challenging, when

something feels hard.

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They started learning something and they said at a certain point, maybe I'm not talented.

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And how can we tell when that belief is a symptom of imposter syndrome?

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Yeah, well, that's actually the root cause of imposter syndrome.

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So if you think of imposter syndrome, this self doubt, these behaviors like comparison and

perfectionism, the stress that goes with them, that's all the symptoms of imposter

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syndrome.

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The root cause of imposter syndrome is when what we do means something about who we are.

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We've put together, imposter syndrome is where we put together who we are and what we do.

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So if we do something good.

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We are good, right?

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If we succeed, we're good.

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If we do something bad, we are bad.

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So you can see it's a very dangerous space to be thinking about because if you make

mistakes, then you think, oh, it must be me.

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It must be a lack of talent.

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And there are a number of studies, because I enjoy learning languages and there have been

a number of...

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you know, studies and there are, you know, software apps, all sorts of things like that,

that I've proved that actually, if you have a learning pattern or learning method that

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works for you, because not everything works for everyone, if you have one that works for

you, you will succeed in it.

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The brain is, you know, if you can speak your own language, you can speak another one.

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You just need the right pathway through.

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So, and there are some people who are amazingly talented and, you know, there's a guy on

YouTube I've been watching recently and he learned Chinese in a year and he goes around

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the world and he learns all these languages and then he speaks to, you know, the Cherokee

in their own language and he goes to Africa and speaks Soheili and he's absolutely

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amazing, incredible, mesmerizing to watch.

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But if you're comparing yourself to someone like that, it's never going to be helpful.

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It's never going to support you or encourage you to learn.

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So yes, there are amazingly talented people, but I think everyone can learn with the right

tools and approach.

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Yeah.

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And something that I've talked about in this podcast is the relationship we have with

those who are ahead and with those who we see as more talented or more gifted.

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And this is something that I...

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shared about early on.

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And the way I see it, we can take that as a threat.

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We can feel intimidated by them or we can feel inspired by them can say, look what it's

possible.

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Look, this guy was learning and who dares to do that.

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I know who you're talking about.

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And I've seen like his most recent videos.

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He now is trying...

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to interact and to communicate with animals.

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So he's learning animal languages now.

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He's taking it like one more step.

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And yeah, and that's super inspiring, like at so many levels.

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So I think that we can use those such examples in a way that...

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inspire us and that empower us.

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It's a choice, I believe.

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100%.

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So there is, so the brain, cause I do a lot of work with, know, how the brain works.

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This is the thing I geek out on, right?

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So comparing comparison, right?

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It's a, it's a typical habit of imposter syndrome.

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Now the way comparison works in imposter syndrome is you compare yourself to someone else.

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They look brilliant, like they're having no problems at all.

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They're fantastic.

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They're succeeding and, and, and we attribute

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talent to them, right?

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This is who we are and what we do.

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We're mixing that up again.

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And then we compare.

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And when we compare, we look for the differences, right?

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Now your brain is designed to spot differences in your environment so it can spot dangers.

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Like if you're driving down a road through the field of cows and then suddenly there's a

bright purple cow at the end, your brain is going to go, what's that?

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Right?

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It zooms in on anything that's different.

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Because that's how it looks out for danger.

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So you can't just stop yourself comparing.

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But what you can do is when you notice that you're looking at these differences, flip it

around and start to look for similarities.

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How am I the same as that person?

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What experiences do I have?

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You know, what values do we have in common?

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You know, even what food is doing that we like, right?

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Anything.

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The more you feel similar to that person, the more you'll feel better because you'll feel

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You're like them, you won't feel so isolated.

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And then the differences don't seem as important.

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So you'll feel more like you belong.

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And so that that judgment, that self judgment from the differences will go down.

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So that's a very good way to then view someone.

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And then you can say, OK, well, I am

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they have been learning for 10 years and I've been learning for 10 days.

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So, you maybe I'll cut myself some slack there.

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You know, you start to bring in the perspective because it's no longer making you feel bad

about yourself.

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And then when you have that perspective, you can say, yeah, but that's really

inspirational.

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Right.

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So that's how you can flip from it making feel bad to it being really inspirational.

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And it's still comparing.

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Yeah, that's brilliant.

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I love that.

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Start looking for similarities.

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I might be different to this person, this and that, and I'm similar in this other ways.

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And that's amazing.

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In terms of comparisons, something that I've heard about, like when we're comparing

ourselves with another language learner, I heard somebody say that if you want to compare

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to a person who's learning a language, don't do it with an adult who is speaking right

now, who's fluent in that language.

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If you want to compare, maybe compare to a baby who's learning your target language.

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So you can take that as your measure stick.

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Okay, so I'm learning, starting to learn Chinese now.

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Okay.

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Let's compare.

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I will compare starting now with a baby who's starting to learn Chinese right now.

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I'm not going to compare it with a 20 year old, with a 30 year old or a 40 year old.

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That's not a fair comparison.

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that is so true and you know that before a baby starts to say even one word they've been

exposed to language and listening to language this whole time.

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I spent six months in Germany and I've been learning German through the years but what I

found was that when I was in Germany then driving along I was tuned into the German radio.

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You know, on the TV there was German programs that I was watching.

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I walked down the street and I snippets of the German language and that immersion really

made a difference in my comprehension and my ability to recall words because the patterns

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of the language get repeated over and over and over and that's how a baby learns through

these repeated patterns.

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So I think you're absolutely right that comparison to how

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our brains learn a language is brilliant.

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I love what you say.

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And so we should take, or we could take even some, the baby even has some advantage

because he's been in the womb for several months and he got this, time listening to the

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language.

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When babies are learning to talk, the parents repeat things over and over and over.

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Even it's mama, papa, right, the very first thing, right, it is over and over and over.

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So that's the repetition that helps build the structure.

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whilst I'm a big fan of grammar for your traditional way of learning a language.

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There's also the biological way of learning a language through immersion and repetition

that is powerful as well.

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Yeah, there's both.

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And when we started this conversation, we talked about confidence and imposter syndrome.

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And I'm curious about like, what are the difference between self-esteem when we're talking

about a person with low self-esteem and imposter syndrome?

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Is that the same or is there any connection?

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And what are the implications for us as learners?

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Yeah, so if you have low self-esteem, then you know, it's getting towards, you know, kind

of like a psychological diagnosis.

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You might go and see a therapist to help with low self-esteem.

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Low self-esteem will show up in all areas of your life, right?

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So whether it's work, relationships, home life, learning language, it will show up

everywhere.

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Imposter syndrome can show up in a very specific area.

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So for example with the leaders that I work with for example, very talented, very

successful people and they might be great in five different areas that they're dealing

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with every day but there's one that maybe they aren't and that's where their imposter

syndrome is showing up.

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So imposter syndrome can be quite selective.

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So it could be that your imposter syndrome is showing up around learning a language.

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And you don't see it elsewhere in your life.

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You feel very confident and capable the rest of your life.

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Somebody asks you question in that language and you have to reply.

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And suddenly you're feeling on the spot.

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So it may be showing up there.

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Who am I to think I can communicate with someone in another language?

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That's the internal imposter syndrome dialogue.

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So you can see the difference is very, very broad there.

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And there's something in what you said that in that selectivity and that is selective.

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And I'm thinking of people, persons who speak several languages and they might see this

imposter syndrome playing out in one of them.

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Maybe there are few languages that they feel comfortable and they are very confident.

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And then there are those who they feel like a fraud, this is not like who they really are

or that there's something missing.

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Yeah, and you can see it back to the root cause.

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It's where they've tied their worth and who they are with what they do and specifically

whether or not they do well in this language.

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Now, you know, as a language learning expert yourself, you'll know there are different

kinds of languages.

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So, for example, you know, you might find Italian and Spanish and Portuguese really easy

to learn, but German just foxes you.

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Well, they're very different

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basis in terms of the language.

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And so that's one reason you might be finding German harder to learn.

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It's not because suddenly you've stopped being a good learner or something like that.

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But again, if you notice it, it's going to be you'll be making some meaning about it.

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What does not being as far along as you want to be mean about you?

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What do you making it mean about you?

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And when we change what it means about us, then we can relax.

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And for language learning, I particularly speaking language, because understanding is

easier than speaking it.

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But speaking a language, we really have to be free to make mistakes, to muddle our way

through, to put words in the wrong order, to use the wrong tense, to...

225

00:18:05,948 --> 00:18:08,555

especially if you know quite a few languages.

226

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You start speaking in another language when you're...

227

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Or can't find a word.

228

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I have this with a German and Spanish actually.

229

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I'm talking in German and I can't find a word but I know it in Spanish.

230

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It might creep in.

231

00:18:24,172 --> 00:18:30,245

So there's uh a degree of relaxedness that really helps your learning language.

232

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And if you're perfectionist and rigid about it and if you're worried about making mistakes

233

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then that's going to impact you.

234

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It's going to make you tense.

235

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That's going to make you, that's going to trigger you.

236

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And what's really interesting is so imposter syndrome can trigger the nervous system and

being put on the spot, learning a language can trigger your nervous system.

237

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And what I mean by that is that when your brain detects what it considers to be a threat,

it goes into this

238

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excited nervous system state, agitated nervous system state.

239

00:19:03,972 --> 00:19:12,895

It causes you to fight, so it's fight, flight, which is running away, and freeze, where

you just stop and your brain goes blank and you can't think of anything.

240

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So these, these are states of the nervous system that are designed in your biology,

evolutionary biology, designed to try and protect you from a threat.

241

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So, you know, if, you know, there's a tiger in the room,

242

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you know, you might want to fight it to throw things at it, hit it with a stick to make it

go away.

243

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Or you might run away yourself or you might freeze and hope that it doesn't notice you

because maybe it thinks you're dead.

244

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Yeah.

245

00:19:40,428 --> 00:19:47,725

So that's what happens when we get too stressed and that's your body performing normally.

246

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Now they've done studies of what happens to the brain when you're in that state and

247

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your blood flow goes to your arms and legs to fight or run away.

248

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It gets taken from your prefrontal cortex, which is the thinking and strategic planning

part of the brain, the logical part of your brain.

249

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And you literally don't have as much blood flow.

250

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You literally don't have the oxygen and the nutrients to work as well.

251

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So your intelligence, your IQ goes down by 13 points.

252

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Your creativity goes down by 50 points.

253

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You get reactive.

254

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You get emotionally active.

255

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You get stressed.

256

00:20:27,368 --> 00:20:33,262

So that's not the state at which you're comfortable experimenting, right?

257

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Which you don't mind making mistakes.

258

00:20:34,873 --> 00:20:46,832

This is a tense where the brain's saying, if you say a wrong word to that French person,

then that French person is gonna hate you forever or chase after you with a stick.

259

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It's what your brain's telling you.

260

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It perceives it as a threat.

261

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So if you notice yourself being triggered like this, then calm down as much as you can,

right?

262

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And don't worry about your body doing just what it's supposed to do.

263

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It's just not appropriate to do it when you're trying to speak a new language.

264

00:21:08,190 --> 00:21:11,782

Yeah, so the more you calm you can get, the more...

265

00:21:12,006 --> 00:21:18,031

relaxed you are about making mistakes, the easier it's going to be and of course the

faster you're going to learn.

266

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And as I'm sure you that you say to everybody who's learning a language, when you try to

speak somebody else's language, vast majority of people really appreciate the effort that

267

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you're making.

268

00:21:31,923 --> 00:21:35,064

Yeah, as the saying goes that it goes to their heart.

269

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I don't know whose phrase is that.

270

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I think that...

271

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Yeah.

272

00:21:39,164 --> 00:21:43,805

There's a famous quote about like when you're speaking in this language, it goes to their

mind.

273

00:21:43,805 --> 00:21:50,045

I don't know if it's like this, but when they speak in their native language or their

language, they go directly to their heart.

274

00:21:50,479 --> 00:21:52,880

You know, that is so interesting.

275

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So I work with people all around the world, our sessions we work with are in English.

276

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And if we're talking about emotional things, what I've noticed that people whose first

language isn't English will talk about emotional things, but they feel quite detached,

277

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right?

278

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So they're not really feeling it.

279

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So what I do is I ask them to express it in their own language.

280

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and it's our emotions are attached to our own language.

281

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Because we can translate a word like shame, Schade in German, right?

282

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I know that intellectually that's the word in German, but the English version for me,

because English is my first language, has that emotion to it.

283

00:22:36,737 --> 00:22:39,619

And so I think that's exactly what you're saying.

284

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So certainly, you know, people will express their emotions.

285

00:22:46,085 --> 00:22:51,196

in their own language far more easily than they do in a second language.

286

00:22:51,196 --> 00:22:54,099

And that's a good transition to my next question.

287

00:22:54,099 --> 00:23:02,877

And that's how does our cultural or educational background shape the way that imposter

syndrome shows up in our learning process?

288

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What's most interesting about this is that they've done studies all over the world and the

way that it shows up is exactly the same.

289

00:23:13,020 --> 00:23:18,379

Imposes it's, it's, so there, there are, there are the patterns, there's three types of

symptoms.

290

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There's the thoughts, which is feeling ashamed, self-critical, being like you just got

lucky that you don't belong here or they don't, you don't deserve to be here or you don't

291

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belong.

292

00:23:28,455 --> 00:23:29,763

So those are the thoughts.

293

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And then there's the stress of it, the fight, flight and freeze that I was talking about

that can lead to anxiety and overwhelm.

294

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And there's a whole bunch of compensating behaviors, stress behaviors that we do like

comparing, like perfectionism, but it can include procrastination, avoiding opportunities,

295

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not speaking up enough, thinking that if you get one more qualification, that will solve

everything.

296

00:23:54,401 --> 00:23:56,361

And it doesn't just...

297

00:23:56,361 --> 00:24:00,704

pushing through, over-preparing, all these different kind of symptoms.

298

00:24:00,704 --> 00:24:07,628

And regardless of, you know, your culture growing up, you're going to be experiencing that

cycle.

299

00:24:07,628 --> 00:24:18,906

That unique profile will be unique to you, but there's no real correlation to culture, and

there's no correlation to personality, because they searched all personality tests.

300

00:24:18,906 --> 00:24:20,761

You know, maybe there's a personality

301

00:24:20,761 --> 00:24:23,289

profile of imposter syndrome.

302

00:24:23,289 --> 00:24:27,851

Well, there isn't because it's not about your personality.

303

00:24:28,946 --> 00:24:38,891

You mentioned something before about this relationship and between our actions and how we

see ourselves, our identity.

304

00:24:39,171 --> 00:24:43,723

And that made me think of the importance of making mistakes to learn.

305

00:24:43,723 --> 00:24:47,794

And sometimes when we fail, we feel like a failure.

306

00:24:48,854 --> 00:24:51,191

And I wonder what other...

307

00:24:51,191 --> 00:25:03,106

other ways of using identity or identifying ourselves, taking an identity that are more

conducive and more helpful to our learning process.

308

00:25:04,296 --> 00:25:09,721

So that's the fundamental and this is actually how I eliminate imposter syndrome for

people.

309

00:25:09,721 --> 00:25:15,628

Taking them through learning how to separate their worth as a person from their actions.

310

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And it's a very simple concept but we are surrounded in all societies across the globe by

this belief.

311

00:25:24,613 --> 00:25:31,535

It's like a mass hallucination if you like, that our worth as a person depends on what we

do.

312

00:25:31,615 --> 00:25:44,681

So the more you can focus on separating that out for yourself, just in your thinking, then

that will dial down the imposter syndrome, thoughts and behaviours.

313

00:25:44,681 --> 00:25:47,943

So that's a real way through.

314

00:25:47,943 --> 00:25:50,820

And that applies to...

315

00:25:50,820 --> 00:25:52,260

languages, right?

316

00:25:52,260 --> 00:25:53,921

Learning languages.

317

00:25:53,981 --> 00:26:03,364

The more you're free to just play, experiment, try things out, ready to get things wrong.

318

00:26:03,364 --> 00:26:05,404

So these are different actions, right?

319

00:26:05,404 --> 00:26:09,986

But the more you're relaxed, the less you're making it mean anything about you.

320

00:26:10,047 --> 00:26:11,047

Okay?

321

00:26:11,047 --> 00:26:18,699

I've been stuck on these verb conjugations and I just, you know, for the last three weeks

and then...

322

00:26:18,699 --> 00:26:20,830

the imposter syndrome part, how stupid am I?

323

00:26:20,830 --> 00:26:24,292

Who am I to think that I, I to think I can master this?

324

00:26:24,393 --> 00:26:35,220

And the playful bit is, well, I wonder if there's a song I can sing to help me learn it,

because songs are very powerful way to, to, to learn and integrate languages.

325

00:26:35,721 --> 00:26:39,563

By the way, just like kids do, they're always singing language songs.

326

00:26:39,563 --> 00:26:40,484

Yeah.

327

00:26:40,484 --> 00:26:48,489

So, so the, the more, the more that you're able to separate out your actions from your

worth, then the more

328

00:26:48,489 --> 00:27:00,665

the easier it's going to be to relax and in that integrate because when if you're tense as

I said when you're triggered your brain's not learning if you're stressed your brain isn't

329

00:27:00,665 --> 00:27:04,289

learning when you're relaxed that's when your brain can learn

330

00:27:04,952 --> 00:27:08,253

If you're tense, you're not gonna learn that verb tense.

331

00:27:09,285 --> 00:27:09,996

Like no words.

332

00:27:09,996 --> 00:27:12,116

Yeah.

333

00:27:13,097 --> 00:27:15,639

That's very helpful, so thank you for that.

334

00:27:15,639 --> 00:27:27,803

That makes me think also that sometimes the learners, some of the identities we take, we

take a lot of pride in that.

335

00:27:27,803 --> 00:27:41,508

Like, every time, or many times where I hear people calling themselves perfectionists, it

has some like an overtone, something that it's something that they feel proud about.

336

00:27:42,024 --> 00:27:46,644

Is that something, is it just me or is that something going on around that?

337

00:27:46,644 --> 00:27:48,364

What's been your experience?

338

00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,641

It's very, very common, right?

339

00:27:50,641 --> 00:27:55,595

People who are perfectionist believe that that's what makes them good, right?

340

00:27:55,595 --> 00:28:00,078

Now, the thing is perfectionism is a symptom of imposter syndrome.

341

00:28:00,078 --> 00:28:05,901

And perfectionism isn't the same as having high standards, right?

342

00:28:05,901 --> 00:28:10,484

Perfectionism is the need to be perfect, right?

343

00:28:10,484 --> 00:28:12,585

High standards is just high standards.

344

00:28:12,585 --> 00:28:14,686

But if you need to be...

345

00:28:15,196 --> 00:28:20,351

everything to be perfect to be perfect, then you're stressed about things being perfect.

346

00:28:20,391 --> 00:28:31,354

So, then, but you think because you're reaching for high standards with your

perfectionism, that the perfectionism makes you successful and you'd be proud of it

347

00:28:31,354 --> 00:28:33,866

because obviously I do quality work.

348

00:28:33,866 --> 00:28:39,321

You're completely ignoring the fact that people can have high standards and be relaxed

about it.

349

00:28:53,532 --> 00:28:59,396

There's something I've heard in people's saying when they, the way that they talk about

their...

350

00:28:59,508 --> 00:29:14,864

perfectionist tendencies is that I had this impression that people want to say, if I stop

being like this, I'm going to lose my drive or I'm going to lose my intensity or like, I'm

351

00:29:14,864 --> 00:29:16,254

going to stop having goals.

352

00:29:16,254 --> 00:29:17,995

I won't have any goals at all.

353

00:29:17,995 --> 00:29:21,055

Like it's perfectionism or nothing.

354

00:29:21,075 --> 00:29:27,277

And it's hard to convey that idea of high standards or excellence,

355

00:29:27,323 --> 00:29:30,648

striving for excellence versus being a perfectionist.

356

00:29:30,721 --> 00:29:32,383

Yeah, absolutely.

357

00:29:32,383 --> 00:29:35,587

And this is why it's so sad.

358

00:29:35,587 --> 00:29:44,817

find imposter syndrome really sad because it's not anything wrong with the person, but

it's a perspective that it's painful perspective that they really don't need.

359

00:29:44,817 --> 00:29:46,459

They absolutely don't need it.

360

00:29:46,459 --> 00:29:50,682

So what I find when I'm working with

361

00:29:50,818 --> 00:29:54,959

clients and we get rid of because we do we eliminate imposter syndrome.

362

00:29:54,959 --> 00:29:59,721

It goes away And I find they don't lose their drive.

363

00:29:59,721 --> 00:30:01,141

They don't lose their ambition.

364

00:30:01,141 --> 00:30:08,944

In fact, it changes they it actually ramps them up So so when you're a perfectionist,

right?

365

00:30:09,904 --> 00:30:17,310

Yes, you're doing high quality work, but you're terrified of making a mistake and what

that means is that

366

00:30:17,310 --> 00:30:21,531

that the distraction of it will slow you down.

367

00:30:21,671 --> 00:30:25,472

It will allow, you know, you're actually more likely to make mistakes.

368

00:30:25,472 --> 00:30:27,253

You have to work even harder.

369

00:30:27,253 --> 00:30:29,815

So it is going to be exhausting to do.

370

00:30:29,815 --> 00:30:35,058

But also the more you try, you think that that causes your success.

371

00:30:35,058 --> 00:30:37,278

And so you can't let it go.

372

00:30:37,318 --> 00:30:43,320

So you think that the drive to be perfect is caused your success.

373

00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:56,331

When you let go of the perfectionism, that need, you're relaxed about it, you become open

to making mistakes, but open to new opportunities.

374

00:30:56,331 --> 00:31:02,637

And suddenly things that you would have said as a perfectionist with imposter syndrome, I

don't think I could do that.

375

00:31:02,998 --> 00:31:04,939

You can absolutely do.

376

00:31:04,939 --> 00:31:10,466

So I have people who come to me who are in a very senior role, but...

377

00:31:10,466 --> 00:31:14,460

overwhelmed with what they're doing, and so, so stressed.

378

00:31:14,460 --> 00:31:22,157

They finish the programme and they're far more relaxed, but they don't want to sit around

on a beach, right?

379

00:31:22,157 --> 00:31:23,729

It doesn't make you lazy.

380

00:31:23,729 --> 00:31:28,154

It instead makes you go, well, I wonder what would happen if I did this, right?

381

00:31:28,154 --> 00:31:34,280

They become explorers, adventurers, experimenters, and they actually...

382

00:31:34,770 --> 00:31:45,469

and they actually have ambition further than they thought they could ever do because if

they didn't get there, it wouldn't be so devastating to them, right?

383

00:31:45,469 --> 00:31:54,676

Because they're free to reach for it and they don't have to worry about what it means

about them if they don't get it because it doesn't mean anything.

384

00:31:54,676 --> 00:32:00,910

it's a, yeah, it actually, perfectionism holds you back far more than you can imagine.

385

00:32:01,623 --> 00:32:02,864

That's so fascinating.

386

00:32:02,864 --> 00:32:07,765

It sounds like they are relaxing into action instead of coming from this place of...

387

00:32:08,165 --> 00:32:10,682

are different ways of taking action.

388

00:32:10,682 --> 00:32:13,526

It be from place of anxiety and stress.

389

00:32:14,453 --> 00:32:20,534

and agitation or relaxation being totally at ease with that.

390

00:32:20,534 --> 00:32:39,001

391

00:32:39,001 --> 00:32:40,052

talking about.

392

00:32:40,052 --> 00:32:44,896

What we're talking about is accepting ourselves.

393

00:32:45,393 --> 00:32:51,757

Accepting ourselves as worthy, accepting ourselves, whatever we do.

394

00:32:51,957 --> 00:32:54,658

And that gives you the freedom then.

395

00:32:54,778 --> 00:33:00,861

And because you've got all of the stress fallen away, you are physically more relaxed,

right?

396

00:33:00,861 --> 00:33:04,202

You're more calm, but you also sleep better.

397

00:33:04,202 --> 00:33:05,493

You're more focused.

398

00:33:05,493 --> 00:33:07,984

You can be more productive.

399

00:33:07,984 --> 00:33:11,046

And the world starts getting quite exciting, right?

400

00:33:11,046 --> 00:33:13,117

Well, I can go off and do this.

401

00:33:13,143 --> 00:33:22,519

And here's an opportunity that maybe I would not have taken before because maybe if I got

it wrong, how terrible would things be?

402

00:33:22,519 --> 00:33:24,100

Here's an opportunity.

403

00:33:24,100 --> 00:33:25,236

I wonder what would happen.

404

00:33:25,236 --> 00:33:26,107

I can take that.

405

00:33:26,107 --> 00:33:29,883

So people are energized with this freedom.

406

00:33:29,883 --> 00:33:31,384

And that's been my experience.

407

00:33:31,384 --> 00:33:32,615

They're energized.

408

00:33:32,615 --> 00:33:34,966

Their ambition is expanded.

409

00:33:34,966 --> 00:33:37,968

They see more possibilities for themselves.

410

00:33:37,968 --> 00:33:40,339

And they have a lot more fun as well.

411

00:33:40,904 --> 00:33:42,476

That's so great.

412

00:33:42,476 --> 00:33:47,119

My last question is about eliminating imposter syndrome.

413

00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:58,209

So we talked about separating the identity from the actions, like what we're making it

mean when we make mistakes.

414

00:33:58,550 --> 00:34:00,231

And what else

415

00:34:00,469 --> 00:34:09,886

would it be helpful for language learner and skill builder who is looking to eliminate

this at the root?

416

00:34:10,614 --> 00:34:19,252

Yeah, well to eliminate it at the root, because this belief that our worth depends on what

we do, our worth is conditional, it's unconscious.

417

00:34:19,393 --> 00:34:19,873

Right?

418

00:34:19,873 --> 00:34:28,780

So what it is and the way it's showing up is there's a part of your brain, the fear center

in your brain, the amygdala, is always scanning around looking out for danger.

419

00:34:29,020 --> 00:34:37,504

And so it's identified the challenges to your identity, the challenges to your worth as a

threat.

420

00:34:37,504 --> 00:34:50,075

To eliminate the root cause of imposter syndrome, there's a very specific process that we

go through to change the way that the amygdala in the brain perceives the world around

421

00:34:50,075 --> 00:34:50,764

you.

422

00:34:50,764 --> 00:34:57,363

And that's a very systematic step-by-step process with a very intricate neuroscience

basis.

423

00:34:57,363 --> 00:34:58,117

So...

424

00:34:58,117 --> 00:35:00,779

It's not something, it's not a mindset thing.

425

00:35:00,779 --> 00:35:04,382

It's not a reframing that, you know, how you look at things.

426

00:35:04,382 --> 00:35:08,395

So to eliminate imposter syndrome takes this work, right?

427

00:35:08,395 --> 00:35:10,377

And that's, that's the work that I do.

428

00:35:10,377 --> 00:35:14,139

to dial it down There's several things you can do.

429

00:35:14,139 --> 00:35:20,533

The very first thing I would suggest you do is to get calm and start noticing when you're

tense.

430

00:35:20,533 --> 00:35:23,225

Do you go into a fight or flight or freeze?

431

00:35:23,225 --> 00:35:23,586

Yeah.

432

00:35:23,586 --> 00:35:26,011

Start noticing when you're tense.

433

00:35:26,011 --> 00:35:35,388

And get calm as fast as you can because that will put you back into the learning state

rather than the stress state.

434

00:35:35,388 --> 00:35:43,643

If you're trying to learn things when you're stressed, mean, really don't bother, go and

have a cup of tea or go for a walk because it's not going to go in.

435

00:35:43,643 --> 00:35:52,807

So I think that's probably the most powerful thing you can do to set you on this path to

feel more like you belong,

436

00:35:52,807 --> 00:35:55,012

more like you're not an imposter.

437

00:35:55,850 --> 00:35:56,731

Wonderful.

438

00:35:56,731 --> 00:36:04,456

Can you tell us more about what does your process look like to eliminate imposter syndrome

at the root cause?

439

00:36:04,813 --> 00:36:07,436

Or when people, where can people learn more about that?

440

00:36:07,436 --> 00:36:10,458

Where do you, which spaces do you develop that?

441

00:36:10,655 --> 00:36:12,375

Yeah, well, you know, it's really interesting.

442

00:36:12,375 --> 00:36:14,015

So my work is one to one.

443

00:36:14,015 --> 00:36:17,895

The process, as I mentioned, starts with getting calm.

444

00:36:17,895 --> 00:36:19,955

So it's a three, three step process.

445

00:36:19,955 --> 00:36:21,455

First, we get calm.

446

00:36:21,575 --> 00:36:24,935

Then we clear the belief in the amygdala.

447

00:36:24,935 --> 00:36:28,226

So that's a very, this is a step by step thing that we do.

448

00:36:28,226 --> 00:36:30,006

It's very personal.

449

00:36:30,006 --> 00:36:36,146

So although the process is very systematic,

450

00:36:36,277 --> 00:36:38,810

how you do it is, it's based on your experiences.

451

00:36:38,810 --> 00:36:47,286

So you bring your experiences to it and then put it through this systematic process and

that changes the way the brain perceives, it sees it as no longer a threat.

452

00:36:47,286 --> 00:36:48,547

So that's the clearing.

453

00:36:48,547 --> 00:36:54,350

And then we create, create success and create the new belief about your worth being

conditional.

454

00:36:54,350 --> 00:36:57,862

And so that's a three-step process that I take people through.

455

00:36:57,862 --> 00:37:00,349

It's a 90-day process and...

456

00:37:00,349 --> 00:37:04,516

You can find it on my website, it's completesuccess.co.uk.

457

00:37:04,516 --> 00:37:11,347

I've also written the whole of the process with all of the neuroscience in it, in my book,

"Outsmart Impostor Syndrome".

458

00:37:11,347 --> 00:37:13,632

And you can get that wherever books are sold.

459

00:37:13,632 --> 00:37:14,432

Wonderful.

460

00:37:14,432 --> 00:37:15,052

Thank you.

461

00:37:15,052 --> 00:37:19,934

And is there anything else you'd like to share with my audience that I haven't asked you

today?

462

00:37:20,515 --> 00:37:21,595

Yeah, just one thing.

463

00:37:21,595 --> 00:37:27,817

um If you think you have imposter syndrome, but you're not sure, the very first thing to

do is to check.

464

00:37:27,817 --> 00:37:32,458

And there is a quiz, you can put the link in the show notes.

465

00:37:32,458 --> 00:37:33,529

Check out the quiz.

466

00:37:33,529 --> 00:37:44,982

And if you're fed up of overworking, over judging yourself, beating yourself up, fed up

with your perfectionism, whatever is exhausting you, take the quiz.

467

00:37:44,982 --> 00:37:49,343

And if you get over 50%, that's imposter syndrome.

468

00:37:49,343 --> 00:37:56,566

If you get over 62%, then imposter syndrome is having a significant effect on your life.

469

00:37:56,646 --> 00:38:01,368

And so it's worth looking for solutions, looking for other ways.

470

00:38:01,368 --> 00:38:05,088

There's my way and there's other ways that people can...

471

00:38:05,969 --> 00:38:09,350

There are coaches that work with just dialing down the symptoms.

472

00:38:09,350 --> 00:38:14,272

So you don't have to jump into a 90-day one-to-one program to get rid of it.

473

00:38:14,272 --> 00:38:16,114

But there are other things that you can do.

474

00:38:16,114 --> 00:38:16,674

Thank you.

475

00:38:16,674 --> 00:38:17,896

So there's your website.

476

00:38:17,896 --> 00:38:23,462

Are you present on social or other places where people can get in contact with you?

477

00:38:23,462 --> 00:38:31,847

Yeah, so because my clients are, you know, corporate clients, executives and leaders,

because they're very concerned about getting rid of imposter syndrome.

478

00:38:31,847 --> 00:38:34,208

I'm in mostly on LinkedIn.

479

00:38:34,589 --> 00:38:38,931

So my profile on LinkedIn is Tara-Haliday-PhD.

480

00:38:38,931 --> 00:38:42,352

And I'm posting there several times a week.

481

00:38:42,493 --> 00:38:44,813

You can, you know, connect with me.

482

00:38:44,813 --> 00:38:48,356

You can send me a message, ask me questions, anything you like.

483

00:38:48,356 --> 00:38:48,867

Excellent.

484

00:38:48,867 --> 00:38:51,629

It's been wonderful having you today, Tara.

485

00:38:51,629 --> 00:38:52,880

I learned a lot.

486

00:38:52,998 --> 00:39:02,818

on imposter syndrome, I think that's uh such an important topic and so present in our

lives and our everyday lives as a language learner, as skill builders.

487

00:39:02,818 --> 00:39:07,631

And that's something that I also see as a coach on daily basis, very, very regularly.

488

00:39:07,631 --> 00:39:13,854

So thank you so much for being here, for sharing your wisdom and experience with us.

489

00:39:13,854 --> 00:39:15,264

It's absolute pleasure.

490

00:39:15,264 --> 00:39:16,596

Thank you very much.