1 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:04,446 Wow. 2 00:00:04,446 --> 00:00:09,756 Hello, my name is Matt Edmundson and you are listening to the eCommerce Podcast. 3 00:00:09,756 --> 00:00:10,386 Yes, you are. 4 00:00:10,626 --> 00:00:10,836 Now. 5 00:00:10,836 --> 00:00:16,026 I've been an eCommerce-er since 2002, and these days I partner with 6 00:00:16,026 --> 00:00:19,956 eCommerce brands to help them grow, scale and exit their business. 7 00:00:20,256 --> 00:00:22,776 And if you'd like to know more about how that works and whether 8 00:00:22,776 --> 00:00:25,356 or not we could work together, just head over to the website. 9 00:00:25,476 --> 00:00:27,616 ecommerce-podcast.net. 10 00:00:27,831 --> 00:00:30,861 You'll find all kinds of amazing information there about 11 00:00:30,861 --> 00:00:32,301 what I do about this podcast. 12 00:00:32,301 --> 00:00:35,601 All the past episodes, all the information on guests like today's 13 00:00:35,601 --> 00:00:37,521 guest, it's all gonna be on there. 14 00:00:37,521 --> 00:00:38,601 The show notes, everything. 15 00:00:38,601 --> 00:00:42,631 Go to the website ecommerce-podcast.net. 16 00:00:42,931 --> 00:00:44,761 Now, today I am Jo. 17 00:00:44,761 --> 00:00:47,851 Joined, joined, get my words right. 18 00:00:47,851 --> 00:00:51,041 I am joined by the legendary Luke Yarnton. 19 00:00:51,061 --> 00:00:53,761 And we are gonna get into a conversation. 20 00:00:53,761 --> 00:00:58,711 But before I do that, let me give a quick shout out to, uh, feed Spot. 21 00:00:58,741 --> 00:00:59,821 They sent me an email. 22 00:00:59,821 --> 00:01:02,846 The other day, uh, Luke, you, you may or may not know this, uh, they 23 00:01:02,846 --> 00:01:05,576 sent, well, you won't know 'cause why would you get access to my email? 24 00:01:05,996 --> 00:01:10,856 Uh, they sent me an email with a list of the top 100 eCommerce podcasts. 25 00:01:11,336 --> 00:01:13,346 Uh, and this podcast is now number nine. 26 00:01:13,616 --> 00:01:16,046 So, uh, just wanted to say a big shout out. 27 00:01:16,046 --> 00:01:19,766 Big thank you to everyone that's got us, uh, to that place. 28 00:01:20,006 --> 00:01:20,996 Hope you get something out of it. 29 00:01:20,996 --> 00:01:23,036 And if you're new to the show, make sure you like, subscribe, and do 30 00:01:23,036 --> 00:01:24,146 all of that sort of good stuff. 31 00:01:24,431 --> 00:01:26,081 Because number nine's nice. 32 00:01:26,291 --> 00:01:28,931 But honestly, I need to be number one just saying, and I can 33 00:01:28,931 --> 00:01:29,741 only get there with your help. 34 00:01:29,741 --> 00:01:32,321 So, uh, do, do all that good stuff. 35 00:01:32,651 --> 00:01:36,341 But look, listen man, you uh, have a company called Brave. 36 00:01:36,341 --> 00:01:38,531 You do everything to do with influencers. 37 00:01:38,861 --> 00:01:41,502 And before we hit the record button you were talking about. 38 00:01:42,321 --> 00:01:45,651 Something which is, well, how did you phrase it? 39 00:01:45,651 --> 00:01:49,251 It is the most ridiculous idea that is currently out there 40 00:01:49,251 --> 00:01:50,751 where influencers are concerned. 41 00:01:51,111 --> 00:01:52,611 We all wanna know what it is. 42 00:01:52,611 --> 00:01:53,841 Let's jump into that. 43 00:01:54,021 --> 00:01:55,131 Welcome to the show. 44 00:01:55,311 --> 00:01:56,691 What's this ridiculous idea 45 00:01:56,796 --> 00:02:00,186 Yeah, look, this is something that I'm, I'm quite passionate about, and you've 46 00:02:00,186 --> 00:02:03,546 seen probably if you're paying attention to LinkedIn and, and those who are 47 00:02:03,546 --> 00:02:08,496 commenting about, uh, e-commerce on x slash Twitter, um, there seems to be this 48 00:02:08,496 --> 00:02:14,976 massive rise of people using AI agents to act as influencers to promote their brand. 49 00:02:15,501 --> 00:02:19,791 Um, so the idea is you've got this non-real person that's gonna be 50 00:02:19,791 --> 00:02:24,801 reading a script, uh, promoting the features of your product in the hope 51 00:02:24,801 --> 00:02:28,281 that you'll be able to trick some potential customers into believing 52 00:02:28,281 --> 00:02:29,991 that this is an authentic review. 53 00:02:29,991 --> 00:02:31,371 And this is someone who genuinely. 54 00:02:31,806 --> 00:02:32,526 Loves your brand. 55 00:02:32,526 --> 00:02:34,686 Look, I think that's the stupidest thing you can do as a brand. 56 00:02:34,686 --> 00:02:40,056 I think that's such a, such a, an insulting thing to do to your potential 57 00:02:40,056 --> 00:02:48,666 customers to try and, um, sort of false stage, some influencer activity that I, 58 00:02:48,726 --> 00:02:53,556 I just think it's, these are the sort of things that customers will remember. 59 00:02:53,646 --> 00:02:56,226 Um, and you build trust one post at a time. 60 00:02:56,226 --> 00:02:58,596 And to go about it in this particular manner, I think is. 61 00:02:59,271 --> 00:03:03,831 Is very shortsighted and a little bit insulting to people who I'm 62 00:03:03,831 --> 00:03:06,081 sure there are people out there who do know and love these brands, 63 00:03:06,081 --> 00:03:10,641 who would be willing advocates of them and to, to use a non-real 64 00:03:10,641 --> 00:03:13,641 human, I think is, uh, pretty silly. 65 00:03:14,331 --> 00:03:15,621 It's an interesting one, isn't it? 66 00:03:15,651 --> 00:03:18,201 'cause I'm listening to you talk and I'm like, I, I don't 67 00:03:18,201 --> 00:03:20,181 UI clear, clear off the bat. 68 00:03:20,211 --> 00:03:23,601 I do not use an AI agent for my LinkedIn or for my content. 69 00:03:23,691 --> 00:03:28,221 Um, uh, but I do use AI to help me create content. 70 00:03:28,311 --> 00:03:31,821 Uh, I am very, very involved in the content that we create. 71 00:03:32,601 --> 00:03:37,821 Because I feel like I have to be, but I do use AI to help me craft and 72 00:03:37,851 --> 00:03:39,951 edit and critique content, you know? 73 00:03:40,011 --> 00:03:41,541 And even to do some of the research. 74 00:03:42,201 --> 00:03:47,301 What's interesting to me is I see people doing this and I, I have to question 75 00:03:47,301 --> 00:03:51,186 why I. So is it because they want to create content but they don't have time? 76 00:03:51,486 --> 00:03:57,156 Is it because they feel like they can shortcut the system and just do it easier? 77 00:03:57,426 --> 00:04:00,036 Um, uh, because they just wanna do it easier? 78 00:04:00,036 --> 00:04:00,576 I don't know. 79 00:04:01,206 --> 00:04:02,916 Um, but I, I agree with you. 80 00:04:02,916 --> 00:04:07,116 I think the fundamental thing about content is it has to be from you, right? 81 00:04:07,206 --> 00:04:10,116 I mean, it's, why would it not be? 82 00:04:10,116 --> 00:04:12,096 I mean, we can all go and read AI stuff. 83 00:04:12,096 --> 00:04:12,816 Why, why? 84 00:04:12,816 --> 00:04:15,876 So, I think it's how you're gonna differentiate yourself perhaps. 85 00:04:16,296 --> 00:04:17,046 Exactly. 86 00:04:17,046 --> 00:04:20,496 And look, I think they're sort of trying to tap into this market of social 87 00:04:20,496 --> 00:04:23,856 currency where you get people talking about your brand and, and the whole idea 88 00:04:23,856 --> 00:04:27,546 of social currency is that it has some currency, it has some perceived value. 89 00:04:28,026 --> 00:04:33,186 Um, and by, by taking away the human element of it, you're just sort 90 00:04:33,186 --> 00:04:36,336 of like completely devaluing the currency that is social currency. 91 00:04:36,336 --> 00:04:40,686 And like to your earlier point, um, there are a bunch of really, really good tools 92 00:04:40,686 --> 00:04:42,156 out there that are new tools that will. 93 00:04:42,441 --> 00:04:46,941 Help you with the efficiency and help you with the execution of, uh, the content 94 00:04:46,941 --> 00:04:50,631 you wanna get out there, whether that's video content, um, there's some tools 95 00:04:50,631 --> 00:04:55,461 that help you chop up video content into some postal that is based on real human, 96 00:04:55,581 --> 00:04:57,621 uh, UGC that you might have in the mix. 97 00:04:57,621 --> 00:05:02,091 Or there's tools that help you write scripts and tools that help you schedule. 98 00:05:02,211 --> 00:05:02,661 Um. 99 00:05:03,441 --> 00:05:08,541 But to take away the actual sort of endorsement element of that, that comes 100 00:05:08,541 --> 00:05:12,381 from someone who has held your product in their hands or taken the supplement, 101 00:05:13,161 --> 00:05:19,311 um, I think destroys the entire idea of, of, of what's going on here, which 102 00:05:19,371 --> 00:05:24,531 sort of can sort of maybe lead us into this potentially, um, concerning future 103 00:05:24,531 --> 00:05:26,841 where, and we've seen this already, right? 104 00:05:26,841 --> 00:05:27,111 Where. 105 00:05:27,951 --> 00:05:31,731 The level of trust that a customer's gonna have in an advertisement or the level 106 00:05:31,731 --> 00:05:36,441 of trust they even have in these bigger sort of macro influences is continually 107 00:05:36,441 --> 00:05:38,271 decreasing year after year after year. 108 00:05:38,271 --> 00:05:42,561 And you're left with a little bit of trust remaining at these lower level, 109 00:05:42,561 --> 00:05:46,191 authentic, genuine influences that have a huge amount of respect for their 110 00:05:46,221 --> 00:05:49,011 audience and will only post and endorse things that they truly believe in. 111 00:05:49,641 --> 00:05:55,251 Um, so I think this is just gonna further exacerbate that destruction of trust. 112 00:05:55,521 --> 00:06:00,501 If you do use these, uh, funny AI based influences that you'll 113 00:06:00,501 --> 00:06:04,941 feed an AI script into, um, for some sort of pretend endorsement. 114 00:06:04,941 --> 00:06:06,201 I don't even know the way to like 115 00:06:06,366 --> 00:06:06,696 Yeah. 116 00:06:06,696 --> 00:06:10,206 No, it's, it's, it's a, it is a fair point and I, I, I totally agree. 117 00:06:10,206 --> 00:06:15,906 We, we've, we've been quite clear, I think as a company on what we will and won't use 118 00:06:15,966 --> 00:06:20,826 AI and automation, AI and AI agents for some of it's, you know, some of the stuff 119 00:06:20,826 --> 00:06:22,296 coming out is really clever, like you say. 120 00:06:22,296 --> 00:06:24,546 And I, I mean, you mentioned tools, and I'll come back to that because I'm 121 00:06:24,546 --> 00:06:26,046 curious to know what you would recommend. 122 00:06:26,796 --> 00:06:30,276 Um, but it's interesting you circle around to this idea of trust. 123 00:06:30,491 --> 00:06:30,911 Mm-hmm. 124 00:06:31,251 --> 00:06:38,391 And how trust is the one thing that we need, but it's the one 125 00:06:38,391 --> 00:06:41,901 thing which feels like it's getting harder and harder to get. 126 00:06:42,771 --> 00:06:50,871 Um, and so I watch, you know, brands use, um, big influencers 127 00:06:50,871 --> 00:06:53,781 to promote a product or a brand. 128 00:06:54,906 --> 00:06:57,846 You just, you, you know, full well, there is no way in God's green 129 00:06:57,846 --> 00:06:59,106 earth they're using that product. 130 00:06:59,346 --> 00:06:59,706 Right? 131 00:06:59,856 --> 00:07:03,696 They're just, they're just not, it just, it doesn't make any kind of sense to me. 132 00:07:03,696 --> 00:07:04,896 There's no authenticity. 133 00:07:04,896 --> 00:07:07,866 You just got a famous person to, and yes, that might work in traditional 134 00:07:07,866 --> 00:07:09,156 advertisement and good on you. 135 00:07:09,756 --> 00:07:12,846 Um, but you are right about this element of trust, which is why I'm 136 00:07:12,846 --> 00:07:16,746 guessing, Luke, I mean, we've, we, we've talked about this a bit on the 137 00:07:16,746 --> 00:07:20,436 show over the, over the years, but, which is why I'm guessing the, the nano 138 00:07:20,436 --> 00:07:22,536 influencers, the micro influencers. 139 00:07:23,391 --> 00:07:30,081 People are saying these are better for your brand because actually these, these 140 00:07:30,081 --> 00:07:34,071 have a better trust relationship with the, the people that they're connected to. 141 00:07:34,341 --> 00:07:37,671 And as long as they genuinely like what you do, 142 00:07:37,871 --> 00:07:38,291 Mm-hmm. 143 00:07:38,661 --> 00:07:41,421 um, and they are connected to the brand, like I'm seeing more and more 144 00:07:41,421 --> 00:07:44,841 people actually work with influencers who actually buy their product. 145 00:07:45,501 --> 00:07:48,831 Um, rather than just giving free product out to a bunch of influencers 146 00:07:48,831 --> 00:07:52,401 and then hoping that they do a good, you know, better UGC, um. 147 00:07:54,021 --> 00:07:57,921 It seems that's that's a good way to sort of build and maintain trust. 148 00:07:58,761 --> 00:07:59,481 Yeah, exactly. 149 00:07:59,481 --> 00:08:03,081 Look, I think people, people are smartening up to the way 150 00:08:03,081 --> 00:08:04,671 the influencer world works. 151 00:08:04,881 --> 00:08:09,651 Um, in that the days, or at least just the, the, the original strategy 152 00:08:09,651 --> 00:08:14,301 was as a brand, I'm gonna find the biggest possible influencer. 153 00:08:14,976 --> 00:08:20,196 Who I can pay an appropriate amount of money to, to post about me on their 154 00:08:20,316 --> 00:08:24,216 Instagram, just one photo of them drinking my drink or taking my supplement 155 00:08:24,216 --> 00:08:25,626 or working out in my workout gear. 156 00:08:25,956 --> 00:08:26,706 That'll be enough. 157 00:08:27,636 --> 00:08:31,806 Um, and it'll be a pay for post and you'll pay $5,000 and there'll be no 158 00:08:31,806 --> 00:08:33,336 performance aspect to that at all. 159 00:08:33,666 --> 00:08:34,776 And it'll be a one and done. 160 00:08:34,926 --> 00:08:37,296 Um, and purely based on existing. 161 00:08:37,806 --> 00:08:38,856 In their halo. 162 00:08:38,946 --> 00:08:44,976 Um, I too will be a great brand that, that seems to be on the out now where 163 00:08:44,976 --> 00:08:49,386 people are looking for a more of an always on consistent, maybe slightly 164 00:08:49,386 --> 00:08:53,646 more performance led approach where they are tapping into more of these 165 00:08:53,646 --> 00:08:58,836 sort of lower level influences and, and creators, um, that have a stronger 166 00:08:58,836 --> 00:09:00,156 connection with their audience. 167 00:09:00,276 --> 00:09:02,886 Um, that will. 168 00:09:03,771 --> 00:09:06,651 Provides sort of more of a genuine connection and you are hitting 169 00:09:06,651 --> 00:09:07,881 that, that right audience group. 170 00:09:07,881 --> 00:09:10,791 I think an important point to add here is that like before we were doing what 171 00:09:10,791 --> 00:09:15,711 we're doing now as a company, um, we built out a fully, um, fleshed out 172 00:09:15,711 --> 00:09:19,701 affiliate platform where we would help brands get links, referral links in the 173 00:09:19,701 --> 00:09:25,641 hands of these 1 million to 2 million follow account, um, influencers, as 174 00:09:25,641 --> 00:09:29,841 well as these micro influencers, nano influencers that have sort of closer to 175 00:09:29,841 --> 00:09:32,811 that 5,000 to 15,000, uh, follow account. 176 00:09:33,606 --> 00:09:40,356 Um, like even the best influencer that had more than, uh, 1 million, 177 00:09:40,356 --> 00:09:45,276 2 million followers would never outperform the median nano influencer. 178 00:09:45,501 --> 00:09:45,711 That's 179 00:09:45,726 --> 00:09:48,846 Um, so they consistently flopped. 180 00:09:48,996 --> 00:09:55,176 They, they don't have that ability to, uh, to generate genuine transaction 181 00:09:55,176 --> 00:09:58,326 and purchases off the back of their suggestion the majority of the time. 182 00:09:58,326 --> 00:09:59,856 I'm sure there are some exceptions to that. 183 00:10:00,366 --> 00:10:03,366 Um, but the level of trust that these nano influencers 184 00:10:03,366 --> 00:10:05,706 hold is significantly stronger. 185 00:10:05,766 --> 00:10:08,196 So that's sort of what's pulled us into what we're doing now is 186 00:10:08,676 --> 00:10:11,376 because of that previous experience with the affiliate platform. 187 00:10:11,376 --> 00:10:16,536 We know that if a brand can get an influencer with 5,000 followers posting 188 00:10:16,536 --> 00:10:20,556 about them organically, um, that's a pretty cool outcome for a brand. 189 00:10:20,556 --> 00:10:25,176 So how do we get to an influencer that organically loves this brand, posting 190 00:10:25,176 --> 00:10:29,046 about them more quickly, uh, in an organic sort of serendipitous way. 191 00:10:29,706 --> 00:10:31,356 That's a pretty cool unlock. 192 00:10:31,686 --> 00:10:36,306 Um, so that's kind of how we've got to the, the route that we're on now and 193 00:10:36,306 --> 00:10:38,946 we're unlocking a bunch of value for the brands that we are working with here. 194 00:10:39,831 --> 00:10:40,881 That's really fascinating. 195 00:10:40,971 --> 00:10:44,361 Um, I, and so you're, you've got the data to prove what 196 00:10:44,361 --> 00:10:45,591 everybody else knows is true. 197 00:10:45,591 --> 00:10:48,261 Is that actually the, yes. 198 00:10:48,261 --> 00:10:51,681 The, the large influencers have access to, so you've got one person who has 199 00:10:51,711 --> 00:10:56,331 access to a big audience, but if you've got a bunch of smaller influencers and 200 00:10:56,331 --> 00:10:59,691 collectively have that, they have the same size audience, the smaller influencers 201 00:10:59,691 --> 00:11:01,766 are gonna outperform the larger ones just. 202 00:11:02,856 --> 00:11:03,816 Significantly. 203 00:11:03,831 --> 00:11:05,151 By massive numbers. 204 00:11:05,151 --> 00:11:10,551 It's like I, I was consistently time and time again surprised by just 205 00:11:10,551 --> 00:11:15,616 how inefficient and how disconnected audiences are to these bigger macro, 1 206 00:11:15,616 --> 00:11:17,666 million follower count plus influencers. 207 00:11:18,166 --> 00:11:18,386 Um. 208 00:11:18,786 --> 00:11:19,656 No, that's fair enough. 209 00:11:19,896 --> 00:11:21,966 I guess that's why they're all starting their own brands, aren't they? 210 00:11:22,101 --> 00:11:22,551 Exactly. 211 00:11:22,551 --> 00:11:22,731 Yeah. 212 00:11:22,731 --> 00:11:26,571 And look, what they are still good for is some top of funnel awareness, 213 00:11:26,631 --> 00:11:30,081 and for some potentially you'll get some branding benefits from 214 00:11:30,211 --> 00:11:30,431 Mm. 215 00:11:30,591 --> 00:11:30,891 to them. 216 00:11:31,251 --> 00:11:37,431 Um, but if in, in this day and age, the brands tend to be, most, most brands tend 217 00:11:37,431 --> 00:11:38,601 to be slightly more performance focused. 218 00:11:39,471 --> 00:11:43,341 Um, so if you want genuine transactions, um, and genuine 219 00:11:43,341 --> 00:11:45,891 transactions relatively quickly, um. 220 00:11:46,266 --> 00:11:48,216 That's not the route you want to be going down. 221 00:11:48,276 --> 00:11:53,796 You want this sort of ambassador army of these medium sized to lower, um, 222 00:11:53,796 --> 00:11:58,626 sized influences, uh, that, that just advocate for you, um, all the time. 223 00:11:59,391 --> 00:11:59,721 Yeah. 224 00:11:59,931 --> 00:12:01,281 No, that's, that's, that's brilliant. 225 00:12:01,341 --> 00:12:01,881 That's brilliant. 226 00:12:02,391 --> 00:12:05,991 Hey, listen, if you are listening to this, uh, and you are in fact an 227 00:12:06,021 --> 00:12:10,011 e-commerce yourself, you run your own e-commerce business, uh, let me tell 228 00:12:10,011 --> 00:12:11,901 you a little bit about Cohort Now. 229 00:12:11,901 --> 00:12:16,191 Cohort is a free monthly group that you can join. 230 00:12:17,031 --> 00:12:19,041 Uh, and we have them in different parts of the world. 231 00:12:19,461 --> 00:12:21,741 Um, so, you know, hopefully won't fit your time zone. 232 00:12:22,251 --> 00:12:24,891 Uh, but you can come and join us on Cohort. 233 00:12:25,251 --> 00:12:27,471 Basically, it's just a bunch of us involved in e-commerce. 234 00:12:27,471 --> 00:12:28,041 We got on calls. 235 00:12:28,041 --> 00:12:28,641 How's it going? 236 00:12:28,641 --> 00:12:29,331 Share stories. 237 00:12:29,331 --> 00:12:30,381 Share what's working, share. 238 00:12:30,381 --> 00:12:33,396 You know, I. Throw some thoughts into the ring and we connect 239 00:12:33,396 --> 00:12:34,566 with like-minded people. 240 00:12:34,956 --> 00:12:36,126 Uh, we do it on Zoom. 241 00:12:36,186 --> 00:12:39,066 It's all free, and it's all very, very fantastic. 242 00:12:39,066 --> 00:12:41,946 So if you would like to know more about that, just check it out. 243 00:12:42,296 --> 00:12:44,386 ecommerce-podcast.net. 244 00:12:44,406 --> 00:12:46,716 You know the website by now, ecommerce-podcast.net. 245 00:12:47,286 --> 00:12:49,296 Uh, but yeah, go check it out there, especially if 246 00:12:49,296 --> 00:12:50,076 you're involved in eCommerce. 247 00:12:50,076 --> 00:12:53,736 We'd love to meet you in those groups. 248 00:12:54,306 --> 00:12:58,026 Now, let's get into this then, Luke, because one of the things, um. 249 00:12:58,531 --> 00:13:01,111 You've mentioned then is, well, it's better to go get the 250 00:13:01,111 --> 00:13:03,211 smaller, you know, accounts. 251 00:13:03,571 --> 00:13:04,471 How do I do that? 252 00:13:04,501 --> 00:13:09,326 How do I do what you call build an unstoppable ambassador army? 253 00:13:10,626 --> 00:13:11,046 Excellent. 254 00:13:11,046 --> 00:13:13,326 So this is something I'm, I'm very passionate about and very excited 255 00:13:13,326 --> 00:13:14,406 to be talking about here, Matt. 256 00:13:14,466 --> 00:13:18,846 Um, and it's something that you'll see a lot of brands, uh, are shifting towards 257 00:13:18,846 --> 00:13:23,616 now, is that they want this always on army of advocates and ambassadors around 258 00:13:23,616 --> 00:13:28,746 them who love their brand, um, who will be posting about it consistently, but it 259 00:13:28,746 --> 00:13:33,096 can be managed in a way where you don't have to hire a headcount purely to be this 260 00:13:33,096 --> 00:13:34,656 community manager or something like that. 261 00:13:34,716 --> 00:13:35,136 Um. 262 00:13:35,691 --> 00:13:39,741 So I think what a lot of brands overlook is the power, um, and the 263 00:13:39,741 --> 00:13:41,271 reach of their existing customers. 264 00:13:41,301 --> 00:13:44,691 There are people who buy from you every day, who have the ability to 265 00:13:44,691 --> 00:13:49,521 share with their friends, family, and followers, um, in a meaningful way. 266 00:13:49,941 --> 00:13:55,491 Like we, we do this analysis a couple of times a week on brands that typically have 267 00:13:55,491 --> 00:13:58,971 between sort of 500,000 to 1.5 million. 268 00:13:59,091 --> 00:13:59,871 Uh. 269 00:14:00,651 --> 00:14:02,991 Email lists, uh, folks in there. 270 00:14:03,021 --> 00:14:07,221 Um, and, and typically what we'll see is that the average brand will have somewhere 271 00:14:07,221 --> 00:14:11,391 between, uh, 200 and 250 influencers. 272 00:14:11,391 --> 00:14:14,421 And I, I, when I say influencer, I mean someone with more than 2,500 273 00:14:14,421 --> 00:14:20,991 followers on a common platform, um, per 10,000, uh, emails. 274 00:14:21,411 --> 00:14:24,111 So that's 250 per 10,000 emails. 275 00:14:24,201 --> 00:14:26,451 Um, and that's completely being overlooked. 276 00:14:26,781 --> 00:14:27,321 Um, so. 277 00:14:27,951 --> 00:14:31,401 Brands tend, and I guess it was originally done in the, in the world of e-commerce. 278 00:14:31,431 --> 00:14:34,701 'cause you had no way of finding out who actually exists within 279 00:14:34,701 --> 00:14:36,201 your, your customer list. 280 00:14:36,201 --> 00:14:39,771 But now we live in a world where there's a bunch of these really complex influencer 281 00:14:39,771 --> 00:14:44,331 platforms that have rich information about every, uh, creator that's in the world. 282 00:14:44,421 --> 00:14:47,181 Like our, our platform has access to over 15 million 283 00:14:47,186 --> 00:14:48,681 creator and influencer profiles. 284 00:14:49,341 --> 00:14:53,151 Um, so we can see in real time who's shopping and what their, 285 00:14:53,631 --> 00:14:54,711 what their follow account is. 286 00:14:54,711 --> 00:14:54,921 So. 287 00:14:55,476 --> 00:14:58,596 No longer are you, are you viewing your existing customers as sort of 288 00:14:58,596 --> 00:15:02,346 this passive group of people, um, that are just enjoying my product? 289 00:15:02,736 --> 00:15:06,126 Whereas now you're saying, look, these are actually our best marketing asset. 290 00:15:06,126 --> 00:15:10,416 These are the folks, um, that we can sort of co-create with and we can collaborate 291 00:15:10,416 --> 00:15:16,386 with to get some really interesting outcomes that are a affordable, um, and 292 00:15:16,446 --> 00:15:18,906 be super authentic and brand accretive. 293 00:15:19,446 --> 00:15:19,926 Um. 294 00:15:20,631 --> 00:15:27,621 So our approach is let's find out everyone within your audience that has 295 00:15:27,951 --> 00:15:29,631 a meaningful social media following. 296 00:15:30,351 --> 00:15:36,381 Um, and once we've done that, let's do some pretty basic, um, outreach. 297 00:15:36,591 --> 00:15:38,721 We don't wanna be like too much of a pest. 298 00:15:38,721 --> 00:15:40,281 These are people who bought your product organically. 299 00:15:40,281 --> 00:15:42,471 They love you, they've spent their own hard earned cash. 300 00:15:42,951 --> 00:15:43,251 Um. 301 00:15:43,746 --> 00:15:47,976 Let, let's make a soft offer to them to see if they're interested in 302 00:15:47,976 --> 00:15:51,156 becoming an ambassador or an advocate for you and speaking for the brand. 303 00:15:51,306 --> 00:15:54,816 Um, so that, that, that changes in a, in a bunch of different ways. 304 00:15:54,906 --> 00:15:57,846 Um, it looks different for different brands depending on the average 305 00:15:57,846 --> 00:16:02,376 age of the audience or, or the type of product that you're selling. 306 00:16:03,036 --> 00:16:07,176 Like one of our strongest, um, one of our strongest. 307 00:16:07,626 --> 00:16:10,266 Uh, brands we are working with is a, is a ticketing site in the 308 00:16:10,266 --> 00:16:12,126 US They massive ticketing site. 309 00:16:12,126 --> 00:16:15,276 They sort of do north of $500 million worth of ticket sales a year. 310 00:16:15,816 --> 00:16:21,606 Um, our ability to reach out to their customer base and say, um, do you wanna 311 00:16:21,606 --> 00:16:25,776 be an always on advocate for us, is, is limited because it's based around a 312 00:16:25,776 --> 00:16:29,916 specific purchase of an event and they need to be hit right at that perfect time 313 00:16:29,916 --> 00:16:33,576 where they can say, Hey, here's something I'm going to, y'all should come along to. 314 00:16:34,026 --> 00:16:34,596 Um. 315 00:16:35,781 --> 00:16:39,651 Whereas if it's a, a supplement brand, that's so much easier just 316 00:16:39,651 --> 00:16:42,531 to say, Hey, look, I know this per this, this person who is an 317 00:16:42,531 --> 00:16:47,181 influencer who is purchasing from me every single month, um, has a reach. 318 00:16:47,451 --> 00:16:52,341 There's some really fun ways that I can do some surprise and delight in that 319 00:16:52,521 --> 00:16:56,271 regular outreach, whether that's the merch or whether that's the upsize or, 320 00:16:56,601 --> 00:17:00,531 or even just something as simple as a handwritten note, uh, acknowledging their 321 00:17:00,531 --> 00:17:02,751 purchase goes so far with these sort of. 322 00:17:03,096 --> 00:17:06,846 Nano influencers and micro creators who, who might not be used to being 323 00:17:06,846 --> 00:17:11,736 acknowledged and used to being sort of singled out, um, that belly 324 00:17:11,736 --> 00:17:13,986 scratch, uh, makes them feel special. 325 00:17:13,986 --> 00:17:18,726 And, and is, is sometimes enough to, to get them from being a passive person who's 326 00:17:18,726 --> 00:17:20,286 enjoying it, to someone who's posting. 327 00:17:20,526 --> 00:17:20,856 Um. 328 00:17:21,501 --> 00:17:22,191 That's really good. 329 00:17:22,526 --> 00:17:26,061 I, I, and again, I mean, that's just a general human thing, isn't it? 330 00:17:26,721 --> 00:17:30,261 So many people go unnoticed that actually if you just notice somebody and 331 00:17:30,261 --> 00:17:33,591 say thank you in a unique way, people just genuinely fall in love with you. 332 00:17:33,591 --> 00:17:34,581 And, and it's, you know, 333 00:17:34,731 --> 00:17:35,331 Yeah, 334 00:17:35,631 --> 00:17:36,591 people love that. 335 00:17:37,161 --> 00:17:42,171 Um, so we're looking in our existing customers for people who have got over 336 00:17:42,171 --> 00:17:43,311 two and a half thousand followers. 337 00:17:43,911 --> 00:17:44,571 exactly. 338 00:17:45,906 --> 00:17:47,526 um, how do I do that? 339 00:17:47,526 --> 00:17:49,176 Is it because we've been having this conversation? 340 00:17:49,266 --> 00:17:51,516 Ironically, actually, it's perfect timing for us in many ways. 341 00:17:51,516 --> 00:17:53,736 We were having this conversation the other day in the office, like, do 342 00:17:53,736 --> 00:17:56,736 we just email every single customer and say, listen, we're thinking of 343 00:17:56,736 --> 00:17:58,446 setting up a, an influencer program. 344 00:17:58,446 --> 00:18:01,476 I. It's not quite how I'd phrase it, but in essence is we're 345 00:18:01,476 --> 00:18:02,886 setting up an influencer program. 346 00:18:03,336 --> 00:18:07,356 Um, would you like to get involved or is there a, is there a better way to do, 347 00:18:07,431 --> 00:18:10,356 I, I, I kind of know how you can answer this because I know this is where your 348 00:18:10,356 --> 00:18:16,236 company does some help, so, um, quick plug for what you guys do and tell us how you 349 00:18:16,236 --> 00:18:20,166 would help someone like me not to do that. 350 00:18:20,166 --> 00:18:21,636 Or maybe that, maybe that is the best practice. 351 00:18:21,636 --> 00:18:22,986 I dunno, I'm making an assumption here. 352 00:18:23,406 --> 00:18:26,226 Hey, look, look, I'll, I'll, I'll take you through the whole process here. 353 00:18:26,286 --> 00:18:29,976 I'll tell you how we would do it as a company that specializes in this. 354 00:18:30,006 --> 00:18:33,636 Um, but it's not to say that if you don't work with us, you can't do it. 355 00:18:33,636 --> 00:18:37,656 I can, I'll, I'll speak quickly to if I didn't have any budget at all, do this, 356 00:18:37,656 --> 00:18:39,486 and I still wanted to see this outcome. 357 00:18:40,146 --> 00:18:41,616 How would I do it without budget? 358 00:18:42,066 --> 00:18:46,356 Um, so, so for us, what we do is, is we integrate into the email 359 00:18:46,356 --> 00:18:48,366 platform that these brands work with. 360 00:18:48,426 --> 00:18:50,046 The most common one is, is Klaviyo. 361 00:18:50,076 --> 00:18:52,566 So Klaviyo is what's gonna send out the post-purchase order emails. 362 00:18:52,956 --> 00:18:58,116 Um, and how that works with us is the moment a, a transaction takes place, um, 363 00:18:58,176 --> 00:19:02,286 a customer profiles created in Klaviyo, um, which has a a bunch of details, 364 00:19:02,286 --> 00:19:04,746 name, email, address, some order details. 365 00:19:05,136 --> 00:19:07,566 We use that to create a profile that we match against. 366 00:19:07,896 --> 00:19:11,496 15 million, uh, influencer profiles that exist in the world. 367 00:19:11,706 --> 00:19:18,186 Um, and once we do find that we have a successful match, then we trigger a 368 00:19:18,186 --> 00:19:22,956 flow that goes out to, uh, all of these creators, uh, that says, Hey, just 369 00:19:22,956 --> 00:19:24,276 notice you made a purchase from us. 370 00:19:24,606 --> 00:19:27,126 Looks like you might be a good fit for our creator team. 371 00:19:27,606 --> 00:19:30,546 Uh, if you are, click this button and we'll automatically add 372 00:19:30,546 --> 00:19:31,626 you to our creator community. 373 00:19:32,256 --> 00:19:33,396 Something as simple as that. 374 00:19:33,876 --> 00:19:34,356 Um. 375 00:19:35,136 --> 00:19:40,026 If, but we'll do some conditional flows where it's, if it's between 3,500 and 376 00:19:40,086 --> 00:19:46,656 100,000, they get email A. If it's between 100,000 and 300,000 for example, 377 00:19:47,016 --> 00:19:51,456 it'll be email B, which will be a little bit softer saying, Hey, love what? 378 00:19:51,456 --> 00:19:53,886 You just, uh, love that you purchased from us. 379 00:19:53,886 --> 00:19:54,756 Love your content. 380 00:19:55,146 --> 00:19:57,906 Um, would you like us to send you some more free stuff? 381 00:19:58,731 --> 00:20:02,031 Something like that, or our, our founder would love to chat to you 382 00:20:02,031 --> 00:20:03,321 about a potential collaboration. 383 00:20:03,351 --> 00:20:04,371 Here's a meeting link. 384 00:20:04,371 --> 00:20:05,721 Let me know if you're interested in chatting. 385 00:20:06,261 --> 00:20:10,911 Um, and then the third flow is if they've got more than 300,000, uh, we 386 00:20:10,911 --> 00:20:14,121 just send a notification into their Slack channel saying, Hey, by the 387 00:20:14,121 --> 00:20:15,711 way, this person just made a purchase. 388 00:20:15,981 --> 00:20:17,631 If you wanna reach out to them, reach out to them. 389 00:20:17,631 --> 00:20:19,101 If you don't wanna reach out to 'em, don't worry about it. 390 00:20:19,701 --> 00:20:22,101 Uh, we're mindful there still is some value in having those. 391 00:20:22,356 --> 00:20:25,236 Brand partnerships with the massive creators and automating 392 00:20:25,236 --> 00:20:29,106 communication with them probably isn't the right way to go about, um, 393 00:20:29,586 --> 00:20:30,456 For the same reasons. 394 00:20:30,456 --> 00:20:33,156 We don't do AI agents in our, in our contact. 395 00:20:33,186 --> 00:20:33,366 Yeah. 396 00:20:33,366 --> 00:20:33,606 Yeah. 397 00:20:33,996 --> 00:20:34,536 Same reason. 398 00:20:34,866 --> 00:20:37,956 and then we parallel that with a, we've just got our hands 399 00:20:37,956 --> 00:20:39,501 on a really cool new one. 400 00:20:39,516 --> 00:20:42,066 One of these AI agents startups, which is, um. 401 00:20:42,666 --> 00:20:46,956 Allowing us to automate dms out to the creators via Instagram, which 402 00:20:46,956 --> 00:20:49,626 is a very similar message, which is, Hey, not sure if you saw our 403 00:20:49,626 --> 00:20:51,516 email, saw your purchase from us. 404 00:20:51,546 --> 00:20:52,356 Love your content. 405 00:20:52,656 --> 00:20:54,336 Reply if you're interested in a collaboration. 406 00:20:54,791 --> 00:20:55,041 Yeah. 407 00:20:55,071 --> 00:20:55,101 Okay. 408 00:20:55,206 --> 00:20:58,896 Um, so those are being fired out one day after that initial email goes out. 409 00:21:00,216 --> 00:21:04,956 Um, the idea being that now you've at least made the ask, um, simply 410 00:21:04,956 --> 00:21:06,066 asking if they're interested. 411 00:21:06,066 --> 00:21:10,416 You've identified them, they have a potential, uh, to be a, a really 412 00:21:10,416 --> 00:21:11,526 good collaborator for your business. 413 00:21:12,156 --> 00:21:13,926 You've hinted it, there's some upside for them. 414 00:21:14,346 --> 00:21:17,106 And then you've built this community and the idea is you'll end up 415 00:21:17,106 --> 00:21:22,596 building 500 odd people who are inside, uh, this created team. 416 00:21:22,896 --> 00:21:28,176 Um, some, some brands manage it in like a Slack channel or a Discord or a Instagram 417 00:21:28,176 --> 00:21:32,406 broadcast channel where they have the founder constantly posting sort of once a 418 00:21:32,406 --> 00:21:37,176 week saying, what color do you guys reckon we should have for next season's drop or. 419 00:21:37,686 --> 00:21:39,486 Are you also facing this problem? 420 00:21:39,756 --> 00:21:42,396 Depending on the brand, you sort of activate them and work with 421 00:21:42,396 --> 00:21:45,306 them and, and make them feel involved and loved by the brand. 422 00:21:45,516 --> 00:21:48,036 Um, give them some early access. 423 00:21:48,246 --> 00:21:52,416 There needs to be some benefit to them beyond just a simple referral link. 424 00:21:52,866 --> 00:21:57,516 Um, and then you're just, every single month, your brand is top of 425 00:21:57,516 --> 00:21:59,856 mind for them because you're talking to them, you're maintaining that 426 00:21:59,856 --> 00:22:02,886 relationship and they love your brand because they paid with their own 427 00:22:02,886 --> 00:22:04,776 hard earned cash to make a purchase. 428 00:22:05,256 --> 00:22:05,706 Um. 429 00:22:06,531 --> 00:22:07,341 By opting in. 430 00:22:07,581 --> 00:22:10,551 That's their way of saying, Hey, look, let's let, let's make 431 00:22:10,551 --> 00:22:13,131 something of this together in a way that's mutually beneficial. 432 00:22:14,301 --> 00:22:14,691 Um, 433 00:22:15,201 --> 00:22:15,801 that's really cool. 434 00:22:16,341 --> 00:22:19,761 and if I didn't have any budget, the way you do that is an email 435 00:22:19,761 --> 00:22:21,201 that goes out post-purchase. 436 00:22:21,231 --> 00:22:24,291 Perhaps the same time you're sending out that review email saying, Hey, by the 437 00:22:24,291 --> 00:22:25,851 way, we are building an ambassador army. 438 00:22:26,181 --> 00:22:27,891 Um, there are a bunch here. 439 00:22:27,951 --> 00:22:30,921 Here's a list of the, the benefits that everyone can get. 440 00:22:30,981 --> 00:22:33,171 Um, you don't, what you have to be careful is you don't want 441 00:22:33,171 --> 00:22:34,311 to be seen to be excluding. 442 00:22:34,671 --> 00:22:37,041 Everyday customers from being an ambassador because they don't 443 00:22:37,041 --> 00:22:40,371 have enough followers, because that's sort of like a, a, a pretty 444 00:22:40,371 --> 00:22:41,691 disappointing outcome for them. 445 00:22:41,931 --> 00:22:46,671 Everyone gets in, but, but as part of that, you'll ask them to sort 446 00:22:46,671 --> 00:22:51,861 of submit their Instagram handle or some sort of handle as they, they 447 00:22:51,861 --> 00:22:56,541 go through the, the process and you can sort of manually sort who's. 448 00:22:56,886 --> 00:23:02,076 The, the big fish, uh, and who's not, and you can sort of manage that 449 00:23:02,076 --> 00:23:06,036 organically, um, throughout that process and just do the exact same thing. 450 00:23:06,336 --> 00:23:07,896 Yeah, that's super smart. 451 00:23:08,346 --> 00:23:08,736 Is it? 452 00:23:08,736 --> 00:23:12,696 Um, I, I guess there's a, as I'm listening to you talk, Luke, there's 453 00:23:12,696 --> 00:23:14,646 a, a cutoff in terms of budget. 454 00:23:14,646 --> 00:23:17,946 So if I don't have money, I'm gonna go down the route of setting 455 00:23:17,946 --> 00:23:19,596 up a, a post email sequence. 456 00:23:19,656 --> 00:23:19,896 Okay. 457 00:23:19,896 --> 00:23:20,316 I get that. 458 00:23:20,316 --> 00:23:20,856 I can do that. 459 00:23:20,856 --> 00:23:21,456 That's not a problem. 460 00:23:21,456 --> 00:23:24,156 I. If I've got budget, I'm gonna come to someone like you and 461 00:23:24,156 --> 00:23:25,926 say, listen, um, this is great. 462 00:23:25,926 --> 00:23:26,466 You've got software. 463 00:23:26,466 --> 00:23:27,636 It's gonna make my life a lot easier. 464 00:23:27,966 --> 00:23:34,326 I guess another way to look at this is to say, uh, what number? 465 00:23:34,866 --> 00:23:37,926 Um, so if I've just started out, for example, and I've only got like 466 00:23:37,926 --> 00:23:39,906 a thousand people on my email list, 467 00:23:40,001 --> 00:23:40,291 Yeah. 468 00:23:40,806 --> 00:23:43,446 it probably, I, I'm, I'm, does it make sense to use you? 469 00:23:43,446 --> 00:23:43,986 Probably not. 470 00:23:43,986 --> 00:23:44,676 I don't know. 471 00:23:45,156 --> 00:23:45,696 Um. 472 00:23:46,086 --> 00:23:51,456 What, at what number does a a, um, a service like yours actually really 473 00:23:51,456 --> 00:23:53,136 start to impact a business like mine? 474 00:23:53,586 --> 00:23:58,206 Yeah, so look, we like to work with brands that have more than 10,000 emails 475 00:23:58,206 --> 00:24:00,456 in their customer list before that. 476 00:24:00,576 --> 00:24:06,846 Um, the, the volume of sort of influences we discover is, is gonna be difficult 477 00:24:06,846 --> 00:24:08,736 to, to make meaningful changes. 478 00:24:09,006 --> 00:24:12,246 That's not to say that we haven't had great outcomes for smaller businesses. 479 00:24:12,711 --> 00:24:18,021 Um, I'm sure as you've seen, as I've seen all it takes is one good creator, um, to 480 00:24:18,021 --> 00:24:21,951 make a meaningful change for a business like the, the, i I keep wheeling out. 481 00:24:21,951 --> 00:24:25,161 The same example with, with a lot of people that I speak to is with 482 00:24:25,161 --> 00:24:26,151 one of the brands we work with. 483 00:24:26,151 --> 00:24:28,671 They're, they're a, um, a suitcase brand. 484 00:24:28,851 --> 00:24:32,136 Um, they sell inflight suitcases, carry on bags and the like. 485 00:24:32,541 --> 00:24:38,361 Um, we found one YouTuber, 5,000 subscribers, maybe 5,500 now. 486 00:24:38,631 --> 00:24:38,931 Um. 487 00:24:39,756 --> 00:24:44,676 He's generated more than $330,000 worth of transactions, uh, for this brand. 488 00:24:45,186 --> 00:24:49,296 They set him up with a referral link, uh, and asked him for his opinion every 489 00:24:49,296 --> 00:24:53,046 now and then on like what sort of that he, 'cause he, he does suitcase reviews 490 00:24:53,046 --> 00:24:55,836 as his, his, uh, channel on YouTube. 491 00:24:55,836 --> 00:24:58,746 It's very niche, but he felt like he was included. 492 00:24:58,746 --> 00:25:00,006 He felt like he was part of the brand. 493 00:25:00,006 --> 00:25:04,686 Now, he posted a bunch of videos, sort of, he rerecorded a new video every 494 00:25:04,686 --> 00:25:06,246 two months for this particular brand. 495 00:25:06,996 --> 00:25:10,296 With his affiliate link, I think he was getting like 20 bucks per suitcase sale. 496 00:25:10,476 --> 00:25:14,586 Um, and he's generated $330,000 worth of sales. 497 00:25:14,586 --> 00:25:20,316 This is a very meaningful percent of, of that brand's total 498 00:25:20,316 --> 00:25:21,876 revenue for the last 12 months. 499 00:25:22,866 --> 00:25:26,046 Yeah, I, no, I, I, I mean, influences, when you look at the 500 00:25:26,046 --> 00:25:29,016 numbers, it's incredible really when you, when you can track it out. 501 00:25:29,586 --> 00:25:34,746 How do we, um, so I, whether I've emailed them out post-purchase sequence, then, or 502 00:25:34,746 --> 00:25:37,356 I've, I've, I'm using, you know, Ray or. 503 00:25:38,331 --> 00:25:44,361 A service to kind of help me, how do I as a brand, make sure, what do I 504 00:25:44,361 --> 00:25:48,591 need to think about as a brand to, you use the phrase always on, right? 505 00:25:48,591 --> 00:25:52,941 So, um, how do I make sure they don't just sign up and then forget about us? 506 00:25:52,941 --> 00:25:54,621 How do I deliver this value? 507 00:25:54,621 --> 00:25:55,941 How do I keep them engaged? 508 00:25:55,941 --> 00:25:58,671 How do I get them sharing posts regularly? 509 00:25:59,106 --> 00:26:01,926 Exactly, look, so we break it down into three separate stages. 510 00:26:01,926 --> 00:26:04,236 So stage one is getting the right people into the top of the 511 00:26:04,236 --> 00:26:05,856 bucket, um, top of the funnel. 512 00:26:05,856 --> 00:26:08,406 So you've got an opportunity for people to share. 513 00:26:08,826 --> 00:26:12,966 The next stage is you don't start with the idea of this needs to be 514 00:26:12,966 --> 00:26:16,656 a, um, a an always on solution. 515 00:26:16,926 --> 00:26:20,136 What your first goal should always be is how do I get them to talk about 516 00:26:20,136 --> 00:26:24,756 me or post about me or perform some sort of ambassadorial task just once. 517 00:26:25,146 --> 00:26:27,246 I just want one single task out of them. 518 00:26:27,636 --> 00:26:31,926 Um, so getting them to perform that first task should be the number one 519 00:26:32,256 --> 00:26:36,546 objective, and there needs to be, obviously the right timing, uh, the 520 00:26:36,546 --> 00:26:38,466 right task for them to complete. 521 00:26:38,466 --> 00:26:42,186 If you ask every single person who's just made a purchase from you to 522 00:26:42,186 --> 00:26:45,966 create a one minute long Instagram reel and post it, that's a pretty 523 00:26:45,966 --> 00:26:50,166 high level of ask to to get from them, and you'll get pretty low conversion 524 00:26:50,166 --> 00:26:51,516 rate and it's gonna fizzle them out. 525 00:26:51,906 --> 00:26:52,356 Um. 526 00:26:52,986 --> 00:26:56,136 And they're not gonna be interested in being part of your little 527 00:26:56,136 --> 00:26:57,336 army of ambassadors anymore. 528 00:26:57,336 --> 00:27:01,986 So you need to have a really easy goal for them to object, uh, to, um, to, to 529 00:27:01,986 --> 00:27:05,496 get across the line, set off with, with a pretty meaningful carrot at the end of it. 530 00:27:05,496 --> 00:27:09,846 So it might be something as simple as, look, if you post about us 531 00:27:09,876 --> 00:27:13,596 on your Instagram story, um, Instagram story, easy to come by. 532 00:27:13,716 --> 00:27:14,046 Um. 533 00:27:14,766 --> 00:27:16,566 Just purely, you don't even have to tag us. 534 00:27:16,566 --> 00:27:18,306 You don't have to use a referral link. 535 00:27:18,306 --> 00:27:21,366 Just show that you've made a purchase from us, uh, and it's 536 00:27:21,366 --> 00:27:22,596 part of your day-to-day life. 537 00:27:22,986 --> 00:27:23,616 That's enough. 538 00:27:23,886 --> 00:27:25,866 Uh, we'll send you a free hoodie, we'll send you a cap 539 00:27:25,866 --> 00:27:27,606 or we'll send you something. 540 00:27:27,846 --> 00:27:30,936 Um, and that tends to work well. 541 00:27:30,936 --> 00:27:35,106 And once they've performed that, once you've, you've formed a behavior, and 542 00:27:35,106 --> 00:27:38,766 then now that they're in the group, you can say, look, now we're in the 543 00:27:38,766 --> 00:27:42,936 month of, uh, may, month of April, or month of May, whatever it is. 544 00:27:43,176 --> 00:27:43,566 Um. 545 00:27:44,226 --> 00:27:47,886 Here's a list of all of the potential, uh, ambassador rewards 546 00:27:47,886 --> 00:27:48,756 that are going for this month. 547 00:27:48,756 --> 00:27:50,286 And you can just recycle 'em every single month. 548 00:27:50,286 --> 00:27:54,726 So it'll be, if you want to, uh, post a a reel, here's kind of what the 549 00:27:54,726 --> 00:27:57,486 reels we are looking for this month to support the ads that are going out. 550 00:27:57,846 --> 00:28:03,366 Um, this is the reward, um, for, uh, an Instagram story. 551 00:28:03,366 --> 00:28:05,256 Here are some stories that we are looking for this month. 552 00:28:05,706 --> 00:28:07,776 These are the rewards for these types of stories. 553 00:28:07,956 --> 00:28:11,016 And by the way, everyone in the Ambassador Army gets an 554 00:28:11,016 --> 00:28:12,666 affiliate link or a referral link. 555 00:28:12,906 --> 00:28:16,176 Here's how you can generate that and then use an example of like, here's an 556 00:28:16,176 --> 00:28:20,436 example of an influencer just like you who's made $5,000, uh, in the month 557 00:28:20,436 --> 00:28:24,816 of January by clever talking about our brand and using the affiliate 558 00:28:24,816 --> 00:28:26,406 link like an absolute champion. 559 00:28:27,486 --> 00:28:30,276 So the, so you're, you're talking about two things there then, aren't you? 560 00:28:30,276 --> 00:28:32,826 You, are, you I'm giving the influencer two things. 561 00:28:32,826 --> 00:28:35,046 I'm giving them a reward for an action. 562 00:28:35,556 --> 00:28:39,696 Um, but then I'm also giving them a referral link so that they 563 00:28:39,696 --> 00:28:41,406 make a commission on the sale. 564 00:28:41,736 --> 00:28:42,006 Exactly. 565 00:28:42,006 --> 00:28:43,056 Well, so that's an option. 566 00:28:43,836 --> 00:28:46,111 They have the option to have that referral link in affiliate link. 567 00:28:46,116 --> 00:28:49,536 That tends to be the one that most brands go down because they like to see 568 00:28:49,536 --> 00:28:52,236 attributable sales and they like to know where the transactions are coming from 569 00:28:52,656 --> 00:28:54,786 and that this is a high ROI channel. 570 00:28:55,251 --> 00:28:59,211 Um, other brands, and I'm, I'm sure you've seen it in your work 571 00:28:59,211 --> 00:29:02,631 as well, is that they're just super thirsty for any content. 572 00:29:02,721 --> 00:29:06,321 The content drives all paid performance marketing at the moment 573 00:29:06,321 --> 00:29:08,391 and all sort of website optimization. 574 00:29:08,391 --> 00:29:12,801 So maybe they don't actually care about, uh, getting the affiliate links out 575 00:29:12,801 --> 00:29:14,031 there or the referral links out there. 576 00:29:14,031 --> 00:29:16,491 And look, certain brands are not well positioned for 577 00:29:16,491 --> 00:29:17,601 referral and affiliate links. 578 00:29:17,721 --> 00:29:21,801 If you're a luxury brand, referral links and affiliate links don't work as well. 579 00:29:22,146 --> 00:29:27,216 If you're a brand that has your average age over over 50, by asking that 580 00:29:27,216 --> 00:29:30,936 customer to sort of understand how referral and affiliate links works, um, 581 00:29:31,146 --> 00:29:33,876 just purely that coaching process can sort of throw a spanner in the work. 582 00:29:33,876 --> 00:29:36,996 So it's purely just talking about the brand and getting the right content 583 00:29:36,996 --> 00:29:42,366 that you can then have flowing through into, uh, the, the, the general 584 00:29:42,366 --> 00:29:43,716 marketing engine is what's key. 585 00:29:43,926 --> 00:29:47,916 I'm not an expert in telling a brand exactly what they want from these creators 586 00:29:47,916 --> 00:29:49,716 and influences that exist in their mix. 587 00:29:49,986 --> 00:29:51,456 That's for them to decide, but. 588 00:29:51,996 --> 00:29:55,986 I can say, look, here are some proven cases of the way that brands we work 589 00:29:55,986 --> 00:29:59,136 with have utilized this army that exists within their customer base 590 00:29:59,556 --> 00:30:00,786 to achieve their business goals. 591 00:30:01,911 --> 00:30:05,541 So this, um, so what have you seen actually work well then? 592 00:30:05,541 --> 00:30:07,041 I mean, you've obviously got these case studies. 593 00:30:07,041 --> 00:30:09,141 I'm curious because I, um, 594 00:30:11,391 --> 00:30:13,911 I would genuinely love to know what is working well at the 595 00:30:13,911 --> 00:30:15,531 moment in terms of motivating. 596 00:30:15,531 --> 00:30:19,146 I. Um, what, what have you seen brands do that you kind of think 597 00:30:19,146 --> 00:30:22,146 that's genius that I can see why you are winning at at life now? 598 00:30:22,821 --> 00:30:25,941 Um, good question. 599 00:30:26,061 --> 00:30:30,471 Um, so the, the brand, one of the brands that is working really well 600 00:30:30,501 --> 00:30:32,541 has a high amount of brand loyalty. 601 00:30:32,541 --> 00:30:38,061 They work in the, uh, sort of fitness and uh, fitness clothing space with 602 00:30:38,061 --> 00:30:40,221 posture correcting, uh, fitness. 603 00:30:40,596 --> 00:30:40,956 Stuff. 604 00:30:40,956 --> 00:30:44,436 So what they're doing is they know that they have a really high level 605 00:30:44,436 --> 00:30:46,806 of, uh, brand advocacy and brand love. 606 00:30:47,016 --> 00:30:51,336 Um, so they're, they're finding, uh, the creators that, that 607 00:30:51,336 --> 00:30:55,686 already love them and, and they're purely getting content for them. 608 00:30:55,686 --> 00:30:59,976 Content is king and they want, uh, top of funnel content. 609 00:31:00,066 --> 00:31:03,306 So for them it's, look, you don't even need to post anything. 610 00:31:03,486 --> 00:31:05,976 Just give us a 15 minute, um. 611 00:31:06,951 --> 00:31:12,291 15 minute, uh, script and a selfie style video, um, talking about why you've bought 612 00:31:12,291 --> 00:31:13,731 this garment and not another garment. 613 00:31:14,151 --> 00:31:17,031 Um, and then they're just using that video to chop it up 614 00:31:17,031 --> 00:31:18,171 and repurpose it all over the 615 00:31:18,316 --> 00:31:18,566 Yeah. 616 00:31:19,131 --> 00:31:24,891 Um, the, the brand that I was talking to about the, uh, earlier 617 00:31:24,891 --> 00:31:28,401 with the, the suitcases and bags, they're very performance driven. 618 00:31:28,641 --> 00:31:31,641 Um, they only want attributable sales really. 619 00:31:31,701 --> 00:31:34,371 Um, they've got a, a little bit of the softer stuff around making 620 00:31:34,371 --> 00:31:35,931 people feel included in part of the. 621 00:31:36,321 --> 00:31:36,951 Community. 622 00:31:37,251 --> 00:31:42,021 Um, but they have a, if you're gonna take that approach, the size 623 00:31:42,021 --> 00:31:43,311 of the price needs to be there. 624 00:31:43,311 --> 00:31:48,831 You can't cheap out on like 1% commission on referral transactions or 2%, which 625 00:31:48,861 --> 00:31:53,571 we see brands trying to go down and I understand that like you eroding away 626 00:31:53,571 --> 00:31:59,421 margins every now and then, but they have a pretty meaningful, um, reward of, I 627 00:31:59,421 --> 00:32:02,241 think it's like 20 or $30 per transaction. 628 00:32:02,691 --> 00:32:03,231 Um. 629 00:32:04,386 --> 00:32:06,786 That tends to be enough to get most people posting about it. 630 00:32:07,386 --> 00:32:11,046 Um, I think for them it helps as well is that they have 631 00:32:11,196 --> 00:32:12,696 particularly beautiful bags. 632 00:32:12,816 --> 00:32:16,926 Um, so it's an, because it's beautiful and travel has so much 633 00:32:16,926 --> 00:32:21,936 social currency, it's easy to inject that into lifestyle content. 634 00:32:22,356 --> 00:32:24,186 Yeah, yeah. 635 00:32:24,186 --> 00:32:25,686 I imagine that is, I imagine. 636 00:32:26,256 --> 00:32:29,106 But I, I like how you, you, you're, what you're showing us 637 00:32:29,106 --> 00:32:30,426 here is different use cases. 638 00:32:30,426 --> 00:32:33,666 So you can use this system just to get creative, which 639 00:32:33,666 --> 00:32:35,346 you can use in your ad content. 640 00:32:35,346 --> 00:32:38,406 So maybe you just want videos, you, which you are gonna chop up from people. 641 00:32:38,406 --> 00:32:39,876 They don't have to post anything. 642 00:32:40,356 --> 00:32:42,216 Maybe you do want them to post stuff. 643 00:32:42,276 --> 00:32:47,316 Um, uh, maybe you also want attributable sales. 644 00:32:47,316 --> 00:32:49,146 The thing is actually quite dynamic, isn't it? 645 00:32:49,146 --> 00:32:49,596 It's quite. 646 00:32:50,316 --> 00:32:52,986 Flexible to how you wanna run as a business. 647 00:32:53,316 --> 00:32:59,466 I guess for most people their default is gonna be, I think, and most people 648 00:32:59,466 --> 00:33:01,776 are gonna think, well, I just, of course I want attributable sales. 649 00:33:01,776 --> 00:33:03,726 Why would, why would I not want attributable sales? 650 00:33:04,086 --> 00:33:07,626 But is that, is that always the, I mean, you've, you've mentioned one company 651 00:33:07,626 --> 00:33:11,766 that doesn't do that, the gym company, but is that, is that always the best 652 00:33:11,766 --> 00:33:15,996 policy or how would I determine what the, the right route to go down is? 653 00:33:16,491 --> 00:33:19,311 I mean, look, it really depends on what stage we're in as a business. 654 00:33:19,371 --> 00:33:23,991 Um, if I was a new business that was just getting started, um, 655 00:33:24,801 --> 00:33:28,461 probably the, the better outcome and the easier outcome might just be. 656 00:33:29,316 --> 00:33:35,136 To get people posting about you, top of funnel awareness, um, driven by getting 657 00:33:35,136 --> 00:33:38,856 authentic influencers who are purely just a post to the Instagram story. 658 00:33:38,856 --> 00:33:42,606 If you can get 'em posting once a month or once every two weeks about you, um, 659 00:33:42,786 --> 00:33:46,656 that's huge validation to their audience that this is, this brand is a real deal. 660 00:33:47,046 --> 00:33:50,976 Um, as soon as you start attaching affiliate links and referral links, 661 00:33:50,976 --> 00:33:55,086 it can cheapen or sort of take some authenticity away from that post. 662 00:33:55,446 --> 00:33:55,896 Um. 663 00:33:56,526 --> 00:34:01,866 So if I want just to get a bunch of creators posting about it, so I 664 00:34:01,866 --> 00:34:05,436 feel like I'm a brand that's being talked about in the world, um, that 665 00:34:05,436 --> 00:34:06,906 can be a really positive outcome. 666 00:34:06,906 --> 00:34:11,046 And then eventually, after three or four months of doing that with the rewards, 667 00:34:11,046 --> 00:34:14,706 going to the people who are posting and, and seeing how that engagement works 668 00:34:14,706 --> 00:34:17,616 and the way they like to talk about your brand, you can take those learnings and 669 00:34:17,616 --> 00:34:22,056 feed them into your advertising engine for some sort of creative content ideas. 670 00:34:22,356 --> 00:34:25,656 And then you can start injecting some, uh. 671 00:34:26,301 --> 00:34:29,631 Some, some referral links or affiliate links into that type as well. 672 00:34:29,631 --> 00:34:32,781 But I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't try and rip those affiliate links right off the bat. 673 00:34:32,811 --> 00:34:36,471 I would just get, let's, let's get our position in the market. 674 00:34:36,741 --> 00:34:37,941 Let's get people talking about us. 675 00:34:37,941 --> 00:34:41,001 Let's make us look like a real tangible brand if we are new 676 00:34:41,001 --> 00:34:42,171 and still early on the journey. 677 00:34:42,591 --> 00:34:46,071 And then hopefully that'll lead to some transaction. 678 00:34:46,071 --> 00:34:51,591 But if you try and jump to that point too early, um, you can sort of sacrifice 679 00:34:51,591 --> 00:34:53,091 some authenticity in that process. 680 00:34:53,421 --> 00:34:53,961 Yeah, yeah. 681 00:34:53,991 --> 00:34:54,651 No, I like that. 682 00:34:54,681 --> 00:34:56,301 And you bet it's very top of funnel then, isn't it? 683 00:34:56,301 --> 00:34:58,866 It's all very brand awareness, um, type thing. 684 00:35:00,201 --> 00:35:00,263 How do you. 685 00:35:01,011 --> 00:35:02,301 How do you track it, right? 686 00:35:02,301 --> 00:35:05,061 So if, if I'm gonna do that whole brand awareness thing and it's like, 687 00:35:05,571 --> 00:35:07,161 okay guys, these are the rewards. 688 00:35:07,161 --> 00:35:12,111 If you do whatever, five stories, three reels and a ridge in a pair of 689 00:35:12,111 --> 00:35:15,261 tree, then um, you get this reward. 690 00:35:15,681 --> 00:35:17,001 Um, how do you track that? 691 00:35:17,001 --> 00:35:19,341 Is that something that they need to tell you that they've done? 692 00:35:19,341 --> 00:35:22,011 Is that something you can track automatically with hashtags? 693 00:35:22,456 --> 00:35:24,291 How, how do I make that process easier? 694 00:35:24,411 --> 00:35:27,141 Yeah, so look, d different brands do it in a different way. 695 00:35:27,141 --> 00:35:29,811 For a lot of the brands we work with, we'll take 100% 696 00:35:29,811 --> 00:35:31,011 ownership of that tracking. 697 00:35:31,251 --> 00:35:37,221 Um, and part of the process will be that, um, we'll either we've got some 698 00:35:37,221 --> 00:35:41,571 clever tools that can make assumptions around the reach of a post or, um, 699 00:35:42,291 --> 00:35:47,301 in some cases we'll just ask the, the creator on the 23rd hour of the, the 700 00:35:47,301 --> 00:35:51,291 story being up, um, shoot us over a screenshot of the reach and we'll just. 701 00:35:51,651 --> 00:35:52,851 Store that against our profile. 702 00:35:52,851 --> 00:35:57,201 So we know that this person consistently gets this reach and it's been posted 703 00:35:57,201 --> 00:35:58,521 and this is what it looks like. 704 00:35:58,881 --> 00:36:02,511 Um, but like a, a, a good brand that's on their toes. 705 00:36:03,186 --> 00:36:07,326 We'll be consistently resharing that content as well in real time. 706 00:36:07,506 --> 00:36:09,606 Um, just to continue the amplification process. 707 00:36:09,606 --> 00:36:13,566 So, uh, we, we, as part of the process, we tend to build out, build out these 708 00:36:13,566 --> 00:36:17,916 pretty comprehensive CRM type tools of these are all the folks on the roster, 709 00:36:18,276 --> 00:36:20,976 this is who's posted, this is the reach. 710 00:36:21,156 --> 00:36:26,016 Um, and, and this is their reward that's been, uh, put back to them. 711 00:36:26,016 --> 00:36:26,466 So. 712 00:36:27,051 --> 00:36:31,971 If you want to, like, obviously we know the space that we operate in, um, and 713 00:36:32,541 --> 00:36:35,841 as much as it's nice to have the warm fuzzies for having someone post about 714 00:36:35,841 --> 00:36:40,461 you, we need to be, be able to be compared to other places that money's going. 715 00:36:40,461 --> 00:36:45,231 So you can see what the CPM is, you can see what, uh, if, if we're doing 716 00:36:45,231 --> 00:36:48,261 that referral or affiliate based approach, you can, you can sort of 717 00:36:48,801 --> 00:36:52,611 throw together a CPC or a even a cost per acquisition on the back of it. 718 00:36:52,851 --> 00:36:55,791 Um, and that'll at least keep us. 719 00:36:56,166 --> 00:37:01,296 Uh, in a position where we can be compared apples with apples, whereas in the past, 720 00:37:01,596 --> 00:37:05,376 and we sort of spoke to that original, uh, influencer marketing approach at 721 00:37:05,376 --> 00:37:09,486 the top of the call, uh, which was like, just throw money at a big influencer. 722 00:37:09,486 --> 00:37:12,876 And maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, there's no real way of telling. 723 00:37:13,176 --> 00:37:16,416 Um, whereas now it should be like, alright, this is how it 724 00:37:16,416 --> 00:37:21,936 compares with our Facebook spend, with our, uh, Google spend. 725 00:37:22,446 --> 00:37:25,206 Uh, and we can see exactly how that compares. 726 00:37:25,761 --> 00:37:26,451 Fantastic. 727 00:37:26,841 --> 00:37:27,501 Fantastic. 728 00:37:27,981 --> 00:37:33,951 Luke, listen, before we get to the saving, the best tool, last section, uh. 729 00:37:33,966 --> 00:37:35,826 The now's the time. 730 00:37:35,916 --> 00:37:38,196 Uh, well before we, we we're gonna get to that. 731 00:37:38,196 --> 00:37:41,046 And if you don't know about the same last, uh, saving the best or last 732 00:37:41,046 --> 00:37:42,876 section, it's a new segment to the show. 733 00:37:43,266 --> 00:37:45,293 Stay tuned 'cause we're gonna save the best to the best. 734 00:37:45,846 --> 00:37:49,866 Now, uh, let me ask you, Luke, this is the time of the show where I 735 00:37:49,866 --> 00:37:51,966 go, what's your question for me? 736 00:37:51,966 --> 00:37:53,556 This is where I take your question. 737 00:37:53,556 --> 00:37:56,976 I will go away and I will answer it on social media, predominantly 738 00:37:56,976 --> 00:37:58,206 LinkedIn, ladies and gentlemen. 739 00:37:58,686 --> 00:38:00,726 Uh, but um, yeah, I'm gonna take your question. 740 00:38:00,726 --> 00:38:01,506 I'm gonna answer on LinkedIn. 741 00:38:01,506 --> 00:38:03,756 So if you don't follow me by the way already on LinkedIn, come 742 00:38:03,756 --> 00:38:04,986 follow me at Matt Edmundson. 743 00:38:04,986 --> 00:38:07,806 You'll see the answer there to this question. 744 00:38:08,256 --> 00:38:08,796 Go look. 745 00:38:09,576 --> 00:38:13,356 So, Matt, you've been in, in e-commerce for a long time, a 746 00:38:13,356 --> 00:38:14,556 very long time, longer than most. 747 00:38:14,646 --> 00:38:19,956 Um, and I'm sure you've lived, uh, through many of these hype cycles of, 748 00:38:19,956 --> 00:38:23,046 there's a specific part of e-commerce marketing that comes through that's 749 00:38:23,046 --> 00:38:25,026 particularly frothy and then dies away. 750 00:38:25,506 --> 00:38:30,321 Um, looking at this moment in time right now, I'd love to know. 751 00:38:31,101 --> 00:38:35,961 Uh, is there any hype that's happening now that you think brands and brand owners 752 00:38:35,961 --> 00:38:38,031 are over investing time and energy into? 753 00:38:38,361 --> 00:38:42,201 And then on the other side of that is where are people not investing enough 754 00:38:42,201 --> 00:38:46,611 time and energy into what's like the low hanging fruit out there that, that you 755 00:38:46,641 --> 00:38:49,701 consistently look at brands and you're saying like, these people are absolute 756 00:38:49,701 --> 00:38:54,591 idiots for not investing a little bit more time and energy into this one simple thing 757 00:38:54,591 --> 00:38:56,421 that can have like really good outcomes. 758 00:38:57,456 --> 00:39:00,276 That is such a phenomenal question. 759 00:39:00,276 --> 00:39:02,466 And now I look, I know before we started recording, you said, oh, 760 00:39:02,466 --> 00:39:04,746 we've got the, we've got the question for the question from that thing. 761 00:39:04,956 --> 00:39:05,436 That's good. 762 00:39:05,466 --> 00:39:05,946 That's great. 763 00:39:05,946 --> 00:39:08,166 You, whoever put that together, genius loving that. 764 00:39:08,526 --> 00:39:10,986 Uh, if you wanna know how I'm gonna answer loose, great question. 765 00:39:11,226 --> 00:39:14,286 Then like I say, follow me on LinkedIn at Edmundson, you'll find 766 00:39:14,286 --> 00:39:16,416 the answer there at some point in. 767 00:39:16,891 --> 00:39:17,551 The future. 768 00:39:17,581 --> 00:39:18,031 No doubt. 769 00:39:18,271 --> 00:39:18,901 Look, listen. 770 00:39:18,961 --> 00:39:20,371 Uh, how do people reach you? 771 00:39:20,371 --> 00:39:23,431 How do they connect with you if they want to do that, what's the best way to find 772 00:39:23,431 --> 00:39:26,281 out about maybe connecting with the rave? 773 00:39:26,311 --> 00:39:27,601 Maybe get their help on board. 774 00:39:27,601 --> 00:39:27,931 I don't know. 775 00:39:27,931 --> 00:39:29,581 What's, what's, what's the low down bro? 776 00:39:29,691 --> 00:39:31,611 Yeah, look, I like to be nice and approachable. 777 00:39:31,611 --> 00:39:33,381 Just email me luke@therave.co. 778 00:39:33,381 --> 00:39:36,621 You can find me on LinkedIn, Luke ya uh, there's not, not 779 00:39:36,621 --> 00:39:37,971 too many Luke Yarnton out there. 780 00:39:38,541 --> 00:39:41,481 Um, otherwise yeah, the rave.co is the website. 781 00:39:41,481 --> 00:39:44,361 There's a bunch of ways that you can, you can book some time with me and we can sit 782 00:39:44,361 --> 00:39:48,351 down and have a chat and talk through, uh, potential strategies for your brand. 783 00:39:48,921 --> 00:39:49,731 Fantastic. 784 00:39:49,761 --> 00:39:55,281 We will of course, link to Luke and all of his stuff, the, the email, the LinkedIn, 785 00:39:55,281 --> 00:39:58,881 all of that sort of stuff will be in the show notes, which if you're just on the 786 00:39:58,881 --> 00:40:00,651 podcast app, just listening, scroll down. 787 00:40:00,651 --> 00:40:01,941 It'll be there in the YouTube description. 788 00:40:01,941 --> 00:40:02,571 Scroll down, it'll be there. 789 00:40:02,571 --> 00:40:04,521 Of course, you can go to the websites. 790 00:40:05,031 --> 00:40:08,961 Uh, ecommerce-podcast.net and it'll be there. 791 00:40:08,961 --> 00:40:12,471 And of course, if you are subscribed to the newsletter, uh, 792 00:40:12,471 --> 00:40:13,671 it will also be in your inbox. 793 00:40:13,671 --> 00:40:15,441 And if you're not subscribed to the newsletter, why not? 794 00:40:15,441 --> 00:40:16,041 What's wrong with you? 795 00:40:16,041 --> 00:40:17,481 It's the best newsletter going out there. 796 00:40:17,481 --> 00:40:18,201 It's unbelievable. 797 00:40:18,201 --> 00:40:18,591 This thing. 798 00:40:19,011 --> 00:40:22,041 Uh, it's actually, we're in a really, uh, we, I've, I've mentioned this 799 00:40:22,041 --> 00:40:22,851 a couple of times on the show. 800 00:40:22,851 --> 00:40:27,051 We've just changed over how we do the newsletters and the new system, 801 00:40:27,171 --> 00:40:29,481 um, that we've, we've got coming up. 802 00:40:29,481 --> 00:40:30,501 It's almost. 803 00:40:31,101 --> 00:40:32,001 Almost launched. 804 00:40:32,001 --> 00:40:32,871 It's a little bit behind. 805 00:40:32,871 --> 00:40:35,331 I'm about two weeks behind, but we're, we're just about to launch 806 00:40:35,331 --> 00:40:37,671 it and the value of the newsletters is just shot through the roof. 807 00:40:37,671 --> 00:40:42,141 So, um, do find out more information about that, of course, at 808 00:40:42,141 --> 00:40:45,561 ecommerce-podcast.net where we'll put in all the strategies and stuff from 809 00:40:45,561 --> 00:40:48,231 Luke about influencer marketing, if that's something you want to get into. 810 00:40:48,741 --> 00:40:49,581 Right, Luke? 811 00:40:49,826 --> 00:40:54,656 In the last few minutes, let's do the saving the best till last. 812 00:40:55,106 --> 00:40:58,376 Uh, this is where I like to just reward everybody that stayed with us throughout 813 00:40:58,376 --> 00:41:00,266 the entire journey on this podcast. 814 00:41:00,686 --> 00:41:04,736 Um, that we, I'm using the word reward and there's no link, there's no 815 00:41:04,736 --> 00:41:06,086 referral link, ladies and gentlemen. 816 00:41:06,416 --> 00:41:10,436 Uh, but if you've stayed with us this long, I'd just like to ask the, I guess, 817 00:41:10,436 --> 00:41:12,086 for their best tip to save the best tool. 818 00:41:12,086 --> 00:41:12,536 Less so. 819 00:41:12,536 --> 00:41:14,541 Luke, what is that from you, my friend? 820 00:41:15,126 --> 00:41:17,676 So this is a little secret that we've just recently learned. 821 00:41:17,766 --> 00:41:21,126 Um, and for us it's been a massive unlock that I think can be applied to 822 00:41:21,126 --> 00:41:25,146 anyone who's trying to do similar things to what we are trying to do, uh, which 823 00:41:25,146 --> 00:41:28,206 is sort of getting an outcome from a customer that loves your brand, um, 824 00:41:28,206 --> 00:41:29,766 that is do them doing something for you. 825 00:41:29,766 --> 00:41:30,036 Right? 826 00:41:30,066 --> 00:41:34,416 Um, so, so that learning is that obviously for us, what we are trying to do is 827 00:41:34,416 --> 00:41:37,536 get people posting about a brand after they've made a purchase in real time. 828 00:41:37,536 --> 00:41:41,736 Ideally, what we've found is that offering. 829 00:41:42,141 --> 00:41:47,601 A slight refund or a fraction of a refund outperforms any other incentive. 830 00:41:47,841 --> 00:41:48,771 Ridiculously. 831 00:41:49,071 --> 00:41:52,851 Um, so by that I mean, for some reason, let, let's say you 832 00:41:52,851 --> 00:41:54,921 made a purchase that's $100. 833 00:41:55,281 --> 00:41:59,781 Um, if I were to say to that person, Hey, look, we'll give you $20 if you post an 834 00:41:59,781 --> 00:42:03,891 Instagram story about our brand or an unboxing video on your Instagram story. 835 00:42:04,371 --> 00:42:05,031 Um, $20. 836 00:42:05,691 --> 00:42:09,741 Response rate for that tends to be sort of like three to 5% pretty low. 837 00:42:10,191 --> 00:42:13,611 If you change that and say, Hey, look, we're gonna give you a 20% refund on 838 00:42:13,611 --> 00:42:18,651 your recent order, uh, for making a post about us that skyrockets for some reason. 839 00:42:18,921 --> 00:42:21,681 There's some, and look, you've been in e-commerce and in marketing 840 00:42:21,681 --> 00:42:22,851 for much longer than I have, Matt. 841 00:42:23,181 --> 00:42:27,231 There's, there's something there around consumer psychology where, uh, 842 00:42:27,291 --> 00:42:30,561 a refund for a, a recent purchase. 843 00:42:31,116 --> 00:42:37,116 Is perceived to be either much more valuable or much less icky, um, 844 00:42:37,326 --> 00:42:39,786 than the corresponding pay for post. 845 00:42:39,936 --> 00:42:43,146 I think may, maybe there's something to do with like loss aversion, but I. 846 00:42:43,851 --> 00:42:47,541 We've found that that offering, that, that small refund, it doesn't have 847 00:42:47,541 --> 00:42:50,541 to be a full, like if you can offer a full refund on a purchase for something 848 00:42:50,541 --> 00:42:53,361 that's gonna send people absolutely nuts. 849 00:42:53,541 --> 00:42:59,751 Um, but just a small refund for, for some sort of outcome goes so well, I. 850 00:42:59,976 --> 00:43:02,556 And look, that often can go out to any customer. 851 00:43:02,556 --> 00:43:06,216 It doesn't have to be an influencer that's, uh, in your, in your audience. 852 00:43:06,216 --> 00:43:09,786 If you wanted to ask every single person who made a purchase from you to post 853 00:43:09,786 --> 00:43:14,766 about their product, your, your product, um, after they've made a purchase and 854 00:43:14,766 --> 00:43:18,336 offer them like a 25% refund on their order or something with a maximum of, 855 00:43:19,026 --> 00:43:20,766 you can set a max limit on that as well. 856 00:43:21,336 --> 00:43:23,826 You'll get significantly more people posting about you. 857 00:43:24,856 --> 00:43:25,786 That's incredible. 858 00:43:26,206 --> 00:43:29,806 That's, and I'm, this is, I'm smiling because actually we do a lot of research. 859 00:43:29,806 --> 00:43:34,246 After we do the podcast, um, based on our conversation, we go away 860 00:43:34,246 --> 00:43:35,506 and we do some research, right. 861 00:43:35,506 --> 00:43:37,486 And we look at some of the latest stats and stuff. 862 00:43:37,486 --> 00:43:40,216 And so when we write the blog posts and when we do the newsletters 863 00:43:40,216 --> 00:43:42,586 that I've mentioned, we want to add extra value, right? 864 00:43:42,586 --> 00:43:45,466 We just, we we're starting to put a lot more stuff in these, in these, 865 00:43:45,466 --> 00:43:48,526 uh, blog posts and case studies, uh, blog posts and newsletters. 866 00:43:49,506 --> 00:43:52,836 That one stat alone is gonna send the research nuts. 867 00:43:52,836 --> 00:43:56,946 'cause we, I now need to understand why that is the case. 868 00:43:56,946 --> 00:43:58,146 I've got some theories I think. 869 00:43:58,866 --> 00:44:00,006 I wonder what it comes back with. 870 00:44:00,006 --> 00:44:03,636 My gut feel would be actually getting a refund is really easy 871 00:44:03,666 --> 00:44:06,576 'cause you're gonna refund, you've already got my credit card details. 872 00:44:06,576 --> 00:44:08,946 If you're gonna pay me 20 bucks, I've gotta set up an account, 873 00:44:08,946 --> 00:44:10,716 I've gotta give you my email. 874 00:44:10,716 --> 00:44:12,876 Does that mean I have to declare it on a tax return? 875 00:44:12,936 --> 00:44:16,056 There's all kinds of problems associated with that, which you 876 00:44:16,056 --> 00:44:18,366 know, are synonymous with it now. 877 00:44:18,726 --> 00:44:21,726 Whereas a refund is an easy, easy win, isn't it? 878 00:44:21,726 --> 00:44:24,576 It's just like, oh, great, just put the 20 bucks back in my account 879 00:44:24,636 --> 00:44:24,936 Yeah. 880 00:44:24,936 --> 00:44:29,436 Look, I, I think to your original point, it, perception of work I'm doing changes 881 00:44:29,436 --> 00:44:35,106 If it's I'm getting something back versus I'm getting something new, um, and it 882 00:44:35,106 --> 00:44:39,426 changes at that point of transaction, it changes the value proposition around like 883 00:44:39,456 --> 00:44:42,306 what I've just purchased and actually I'm getting something for cheaper than I 884 00:44:42,306 --> 00:44:45,936 thought it was for doing something that I might have might have done anyway. 885 00:44:46,326 --> 00:44:47,736 Um, so. 886 00:44:48,216 --> 00:44:48,786 That's brilliant. 887 00:44:49,236 --> 00:44:53,706 I have to say, Luke, I, I've not been tracking actually, uh, since we've been 888 00:44:53,706 --> 00:44:55,116 doing it, the saving the best or less. 889 00:44:55,116 --> 00:44:57,426 But, uh, if I was, I dare say if. 890 00:44:58,311 --> 00:45:01,341 That's probably the best answer we've had on the saving the best or last. 891 00:45:01,341 --> 00:45:03,951 So, uh, I, I have to, I have to do this. 892 00:45:03,951 --> 00:45:04,911 I have to applaud you. 893 00:45:05,061 --> 00:45:05,301 Yes. 894 00:45:05,541 --> 00:45:05,931 Very good. 895 00:45:05,991 --> 00:45:06,381 Well done. 896 00:45:07,281 --> 00:45:07,881 Uh, yeah. 897 00:45:08,391 --> 00:45:09,111 Nailed that. 898 00:45:09,111 --> 00:45:09,891 Fantastic. 899 00:45:10,311 --> 00:45:13,611 Luke, listen man, really appreciate you, appreciate you coming on the podcast. 900 00:45:13,611 --> 00:45:17,811 It's been great to meet you and talk to you all the way, uh, on 901 00:45:17,811 --> 00:45:18,951 the other side of the Atlantic. 902 00:45:19,311 --> 00:45:22,731 Um, love what you guys are doing and of course, if you are in the 903 00:45:22,731 --> 00:45:26,991 market for some help with influencer marketing, then do connect with Luke. 904 00:45:26,991 --> 00:45:27,411 But Luke. 905 00:45:27,936 --> 00:45:28,626 Appreciate it, man. 906 00:45:28,686 --> 00:45:29,256 You're a legend. 907 00:45:29,256 --> 00:45:30,306 Thanks for coming on the show. 908 00:45:30,906 --> 00:45:31,176 Cheers. 909 00:45:31,176 --> 00:45:31,981 Thanks for your time, Matt. 910 00:45:32,496 --> 00:45:33,306 No problem. 911 00:45:33,306 --> 00:45:34,746 Now that's it from me. 912 00:45:35,226 --> 00:45:36,246 That's it from Luke. 913 00:45:36,546 --> 00:45:38,196 Thank you so much for joining us. 914 00:45:38,196 --> 00:45:40,146 Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world, and of 915 00:45:40,146 --> 00:45:41,496 course, I will see you next time. 916 00:45:41,916 --> 00:45:42,456 That's it from me. 917 00:45:42,846 --> 00:45:43,206 Bye for now.