[00:00:00] Hannah: Hi, and welcome to the awfully quiet podcast. I could not have planned the timing better. If you caught last week's episode, number 56 introverts, take your damn seat at the table. You're already in the zone of what we're covering today, but if you're still on the fence about Leaning into more responsibility and decision making roles.

This conversation hits the nail on the head. Today, I am joined by the incredible Tanja Sternbauer, a powerhouse in leadership, entrepreneurship, and community building. Tanja is the co founder and head of community at The Female Factor, a global community for future female leaders. She's a serial entrepreneur.

An international speaker and has been recognized as one of Europe's most influential business women. Let's just say her resume is stacked managing partner of startup life, founder of female founders, and even launching her first startup at 25. Oh, and did I mention she's been named a female role model in Europe?

Tanya's impact is huge, but here's what makes her Truly fascinating. Despite her ability to network, socialize, and own the spotlight, Tanya is an introvert at heart. That's exactly why I needed her on this podcast. In this episode, we explore how she navigated the entrepreneurial and leadership space in ways that felt authentic, introvert friendly, and true to herself.

We dive deep into how introverts can lead, build communities and challenge the same misconceptions that often hold women and introverts. Back from stepping into higher leadership roles. Tanya also drops some serious gold nuggets, practical, fresh, and sometimes completely unconventional advice you will want to bookmark.

We even talk about how her global lifestyle from Austria to Cyprus to Tel Aviv fuels different parts of her personality and helps her live her best introvert life. I walked away from this conversation so inspired and I know it'll spark something in you too. Whether it's about starting your own community or just stepping into your next opportunity, Tanja's story shows how it's all possible.

One quiet, intentional step at a time. So let's not wait any longer. Here's my conversation with Tanja Sternbauer. All right. Well, Tanja, thank you so much for joining me today and welcome to the awfully quiet podcast.

[00:02:34] Tanja: Thank you for having me.

[00:02:36] Hannah: Now, I want to start by quoting your quick list of fancy labels of LinkedIn. you're a serial entrepreneur. You're a female role model, 2019 top 100 most influential businesswoman in Austria, female founder leader, but what really sparked my interest and why I really wanted to have you on the podcast is a label that is not yet.

As fancy as I would want it to be. And that is introvert.tell me something about your introversion that feels powerful to you. What do you like about being introverted? How has it helped you?

[00:03:08] Tanja: I think it helped me to actually get out there because, you know, if you feel you have a weakness, you sometimes try to turn it into your strength because you don't want it to be a weakness and to, you know, direct your life. So that's, I think, how I would look into my introvertedness in a nutshell, just making it a strength for me and make it work for me in my,

[00:03:27] Hannah: And do you, did you ever feel like it held you back? I know that you very early on in your career, like 25 years, you started your first company, you've always been drawn to entrepreneurship. Was that something that came naturally to you or do you, do you feel like it held you back at the beginning?

[00:03:44] Tanja: I mean, I think the entrepreneurship part is who I am truly like, that's something, I mean, you know, my family is, are both entrepreneurs. So I grew up with that, the upsides and the downsides. And actually for me, before I got started in this role, I decided I do not want to have my own company because I saw what it takes a toll on, my parents.

And, You know, life has its things. So obviously it came differently. And once I realized this is the passion for me, it was very easy to get into it. But you know, entrepreneurship doesn't necessarily need to be extrovert. It's like for me, solving a problem that you think the world has, or you have ideally, and you want to solve it.

And that's who I am. I'm a, you know, I love getting into problems and finding solutions, right. And I see business opportunities everywhere. So that was not the thing, but obviously it held me back a lot of times. You know, I'm a shy person. I'm an introvert person. So the combination. Which is obviously happened a lot, it's very hard to come by if you're in a business world.

So very early on, it was a problem. And actually, when I was thinking about, you know, being on a podcast today, I was thinking back of, one of the moments when I felt it was really, really hard for me. and actually where I consciously made the decision to go despite, and that was when I, because you just mentioned it, I had my first company, I think 25, 25 years old or something with my extrovert business partner.

So that's also fun. I usually find people that are extrovert that are working with me, which makes it obviously much easier to, you know, balance each other out. And, She was not available to go to this business event and I felt it's really important for me to be there or for us to be there as a company.

I don't even remember what was the whole topic, but I remember being in this plot situation. Like, should I go by myself? Being completely awkward there, not knowing what to do and how to behave and everything. And then I saw all this social anxiety and, and the things coming at me or, you know, I'll just skip it.

Anyways, I went and I still remember like, you know, even going there to pep talk, I needed to do myself. And like, can do it. You can talk to people, it's fine. And obviously it was awful. Like clearly I stand there, like, you know, like I cannot just go up talking to people. It's very, very hard for me. so obviously I couldn't do that.

So you're on the phone, right? Cause like what else are you doing in a social context otherwise? So the event started, I'm sitting like in the second row or something and I'm following the speakers. I think it was like three speakers. And that was actually for me to think, I'm like, Huh, I know something about this person already.

It's not a blind shot when I go up to them. So I obviously read the bio before I know what they were talking about. I had like quotes that they were using or things that were interesting to me. So what I did was obviously not very natural as an introvert, but after the talks, I went straight up to the speaker, which felt much easier for me because I knew something about this person.

So it was not like a weird, like small talk. Hey, first time here, like, you know, awkward. Can't. So. I was like, okay, I go right in and I have something. So, yeah, I just, you know, spoke about what they just had talked about and connected. And I always, and that's important for me when I go up to someone, I have a goal in mind.

And for me, it was obviously a business opportunity. So for me, when I'm connecting it to something bigger than me and my social anxiety. It's not about me anymore. It's about the business. It's much more powerful. It's much more easier for me to do so. So I went up because I had a clear goal in mind, what I wanted from the speaker and why I saw a business opportunity.

And then it just was much, much easier. And I felt so good afterward. I was so proud of myself, you know, to going, despite all of the fears that I had and it was, yeah, it was really nice.

[00:07:03] Hannah: 100%. This is such a lovely example, because it can feel so daunting to be at a networking event and go up to somebody and speak, you know, with somebody you've never spoken to before. But I think what you mentioned is so crucial in terms of, like, preparing a little bit, knowing a little bit about this person and you're not going in blind.

You're not just mindlessly. working the room, we're networking to, you know, figure out who might be your person, but you already know going in, who's your person? Who do you want to speak to? What do you want to get out of them? And then the

[00:07:34] Tanja: And I'm doing this, I'm doing this to date. So if I go by myself to a networking event, which is very rare these days anyways, because like, I'm living my best introvert self now, just, you know, hiding in Cyprus, as I said, like, you know, my extrovert partner is doing most of the public appearances.

But even if I go now, and I know I want to meet people, or this is the goal for me. And I'm without my business partner. It's still I'm preparing. So I'm looking up the attendees nowadays. It's much easier. You know, when I started 25, there was no like apps where you could connect online. You know, you needed to go through LinkedIn and people were not always there.

Not like these days anymore. I feel like very old when I talk about it, but now it's much, much easier. So now I know exactly who I want to talk to. I researched before I connect with them before I say, hey, I'm there. and I make a time and everything with them together and then that's it. And it's so much easier because you know, when you connect.

So for me, the part being an introvert in the business world is to go up to people that you don't know, and you're just trying to connect, like, I really admire people who can just walk up to someone without context. I don't know, man, like I can't.

[00:08:30] Hannah: Clever.

[00:08:31] Tanja: So, yeah, I still do that. And yeah, I think that's the, that's the easiest way to overcome any of the anxieties that come with being an introvert in a social context.

Yeah.

[00:08:40] Hannah: I love that. in those early days when you built the female factor, how much of that was, you know, came natural to you was something that felt like you were in your Introverted comfort zone, so to speak, and how much did it require you to go outside of your comfort zone? Because I can imagine, you know, building a community requires you to, you know, build a lot of connections that you didn't have before requires you to network.

I always see those. You post photos on your LinkedIn or Instagram with so many people in a room so, you know, huge rooms with like so many, so many women and it looks amazing, but I can imagine it requires a lot of extroverting. How did you deal with that when you build the female factor. Yeah,

[00:09:24] Tanja: of an unfair advantage 'cause it was, a company, a community that, that built after building a lot of others. Right. and I think if you read on the post about, being an introvert, and how I felt back then for the conference, for example, for me, one of the things to make it easy is actually building communities myself.

'cause again, it attracts also the people that you like. And, I, I, I don't know, I thought about it and affected it today if it's kind of a hierarchy thing, but for me, or like a social, hierarchies, you know. You know who to talk to and what to do, but if I'm the leader in the room, if I'm the host of a room, it's much easier to me because people just walk up to me and they know what they want to talk about and they know what they want to get out of me.

They have a goal, so it's much easier to it's it's so much easier. Like, I swear, that's definitely my recipe to just host myself have a community myself. So that takes away all the anxiety. I feel much more natural than there. but yeah, with the female factor, I, before that I had my own startup. I was part of Austrian startups, where I was like one of the operation leads.

I started, I restarted a startup life, which was an acceleration program, also built on community. My whole life is community building basically. And then I also started female founders, what, eight years ago or something. So everything I did was basically community building. And it naturally was like easier for me.

And that was also my recipe back then I joined as volunteer or I joined organizations because I felt. It's the easiest to be part of a team already and to know my place in a social environment. It sounds like I needed to really cope with things, but for me, naturally that felt the easiest. I liked to go to the events because I knew it gets me somewhere.

I wanted to learn. I wanted to get to know people. So I, I, I don't know why, but I had this always in the back of my mind that I want to build a network in, in, in the startup scene back then. And for me, that felt most natural to just be part of the community myself already. And for Austrian startups, and we're talking again, 15 years ago, something like, you know, very, very long time ago when I started, this whole thing, like the whole startup scene in, in Europe, you know, there was all men in a room.

So it was daunting as well. And, I think that that is also something that was very hard for me to understand. Okay. How can you, you know, you don't feel natural in a room full of men. It is what it is. And especially back then it was a lot of developers, you know, so everyone awkward anyways in this room.

So that was so hard. So for me, I felt like, okay, if I want to know how to do those things, I need to be a regular. So a few more comfortable in the space and ideally a contribute to the thing. So very early on, I already started to volunteer for those organizations to make it easier. And the other thing that I noticed back then already in Austrian startups was one of the examples where the events were so heavily male dominated.

I went to my first female only event years, years ago as well, 10 years ago, something. And the energy in this room was so different to what I knew from all of the other events. And people were just like easily talking to each other, like the woman, obviously, I was like, Oh, that's so nice. You know, that was the first event where I didn't feel like completely out of place.

And I didn't come there prepared because I didn't know, you know, who was in anyone. but they were really so nice and everyone was so welcoming. So that was for me also the thing of like, It's still needed and to the state. That's why I believe in female only spaces because the energy in the room with women only is so much different than when you go to a, you know, you know, mixed event and I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but for me, then the idea was actually when I started female founders, like a community for female entrepreneurs in Austria.

That also went global then. it was, I wanted to connect as many female entrepreneurs as possible so we can bring them to the mixed events so they feel more comfortable because if you're the only woman in a room full of men in a startup event, obviously you don't feel you want to start your own thing.

Now, obviously the numbers are low because you don't feel you belong and you don't know how you're getting, especially when you're like also an introvert, right? But generally, you know, there's a lot of loud men that talk to each other and they already know each other because You know, of whatever reason, and you don't, so it's very hard to get an opening in, especially if you don't feel comfortable in these rooms.

So that was my goal back then. And yeah, based on that, the female factor was way easier because I already had all the networks and I already knew how powerful it is to be in a room full of women, especially if your host In the room

[00:13:29] Hannah: It feels like you're very good at creating these safe spaces, like either

[00:13:33] Tanja: because I needed it. Right.

[00:13:34] Hannah: or for, for other women to participate in. And, something that you said fascinated me because I never thought of this as an introvert skill or as, you know, something that could potentially be introvert friendly is that, you know, building communities is where you get a say in, you know, who's part of the community, who do I, you know, who do I want to reach out to, who do I build this with?

And it feels like something that comes really natural to you. It's like building communities. You mentioned that you've always done it. How do you do it? Like, take me back to a time, like. Maybe after university where you didn't have the network yet. How do you meet the first person? And how does that network build over time?

You also mentioned that you have an extroverted business partner and it just kind of feels like you do this naturally, but you have. Can you walk me through the process of like, how do you build community? How do you find these people?

[00:14:25] Tanja: think you're doing a great job yourself to know you found a problem and you're trying to get people around the topic. And so I think that's what it is. But yeah, I think it is for me when I started to support other organizations.that that's for me, how it started. Right. So I wanted to help, and be part.

So one of the first organizations that joined, I actually built a mentoring program and I don't know how familiar with the female factor, but our core is also a mentoring program. I really believe mentoring is changing the game for a lot of like, you know, women or professionals out there. And back then it was a mentoring program for young professionals that I joined.

And I just loved connecting to all of the CEOs and, you know, C level people that we had as mentors. So that's how the network actually started. I was. I think I wasn't smart about it. I just wanted to say I was smart. I don't think I was really smart, but I kind of felt, Hey, I would want to be part of this.

But yeah, that's how I started to build the connection to a lot of like leaders, and around industries, and learn from them and, you know, I could dial them up because I knew who I was. So that made it much, much easier for me on that level. so yeah, just joining again, another network and learn from that.

So that's, that's how it started. But when I'm thinking back of, and I think that's why mentoring is also so important, friends that can mirror, mirror you and one of my unofficial mentors, also one of my unofficial coaches and one of the mentors in our program, and she basically, I think. So it sums it up best when I met her.

7, 8 years ago or something she was introduced to me. I was running startup life and acceleration program for early stage startups with a lot of mentors as well at the core. And, she came to me as a mentor already. So she was very successful back then as a, as a founder herself and as a coach herself.

And, she asked, you know, how to. support and everything as a mentor. And I connected her to people that I knew and I do that because like, obviously I saw, Hey, that's how I can help. And until this day, she said anything that she does for me, she does. Because back then I was helping, I was supporting, I was without asking anything in return, I was.

Doing all of the introductions and helping giving her all my knowledge and that's something that I truly believed like my whole career. Like, I was always a giver. And I think 1 of the things, you know, for me, also helping connecting people and seeing the opportunities of how to make the world a better place.

Help this 1 person. That's something that was very true to me. And that's 1 of my impact is 1 of my core values to drive me as well to do things. so it felt so natural. And because of that. You give without expecting, and I need to really say, I didn't expect anything. I really, all the communities I led was all based on giving.

There was like also the female factor, like it's a very low fee to join because obviously we need to operate it also as a business, but I really always wanted to give, and I never asked for anything in return, talking about money mindset on another level, but you know, give and give,

[00:17:04] Hannah: Can trip you up.

[00:17:05] Tanja: Naturally, naturally that made a lot of people connect with me wanting to be part of the network that because they saw, you know, what I did and how I was giving and connecting people without asking anything in return.

So, I think that's at the core of what it started again. Nothing that I really wanted to do, or, like, you know, like, Masterminded, it's just something very natural to me of like, just helping and opening doors for others. And that's what mentoring eventually is all about. But back then, you know, it was more.

Yeah, sure. I know this person. So here you go. And, I'll start it basically.

[00:17:38] Hannah: Yeah. But it's so powerful because it feels like you had something to work for. It wasn't about yourself. It wasn't about, you know, putting yourself in the spotlight. It was about mentoring. And you felt that could be a problem solver to so many issues that you were seeing in the female space. So it was almost like you had something to do it for.

And then you were also followed your interest, right? You said that you reached out to people who could potentially help build. that, you know, that mentoring platform. So it was always led by genuine interest and by, by doing something that was a little bigger than yourself. And it feels like that's an introvert hack

[00:18:17] Tanja: Yeah, I think so too.

[00:18:19] Hannah: that people can really take away and, you know, giving more so than receiving, because I think when it comes to networking, a lot of introverts see networking as, Oh, I need to ask, you know, something from them.

I need to, you know, I'll need to, they need to give me some of their time, some of their energy, some of their knowledge, and it feels like getting, getting, getting and not giving anything back. And that can feel. A lot more like a win win situation where you go into, you know, a conversation where you also have to give something.

And if it's only interest, that's also giving something, right? Like the other person

[00:18:55] Tanja: yeah, if you need to, you can offer something and I mean, that's something that we say usually to all the mentees as well, you know, but, you know, if you put a bit more context behind it's easier, but we also say, you know, it should be a give and take in a mentoring relationship as well. And it's much easier if you reach out to someone where you already have like an offer, not a sales offer, but like something that you can really truly offer.

And if you really mean it, and if you can connect it to a bigger thing. Like also mentors, like, you know, obviously they give their time, but it's also a lot for them. so for them to be part of the, and giving back and connecting and connecting to a younger generation, there's a lot, in it as well.

But yeah, for me, the big thing is definitely connecting it to a bigger goal,

[00:19:31] Hannah: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:19:32] Tanja: it's, that's, it's not even, yeah, maybe it's not even a bigger goal. I'm thinking, with my husband, when it's about him or I'm doing something for him or that helps him, I'm the most extrovert self. I can go up to anyone because it is for someone else.

And he's always like, I don't understand how this is now easy for you. But at the other hand, if you want something, you know, even asking something in the store, I'm like awkward. He's like, I don't understand. I'm like,

[00:19:55] Hannah: this is so good. This is so good. Like, I, I had the same things. Like I would go up to people, like, When there is something, when I have a goal or a project or it's for something, it's so easy for me to reach out to other people. Like I did that, you know, during my master's thesis, I went up to, you know, the most incredible people to interview with this podcast.

I'm reaching out to people I've never spoken to before, and it comes easily because I feel like. It adds value to the community and to people listening. But again, I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't ask a damn question at the grocery store if I didn't know how to find something,

[00:20:33] Tanja: I don't know, introvert minds are so awkward, I swear.

[00:20:35] Hannah: I love that. Tanya, what I wanted to ask you for, it's like. When you are in this, in these networking situations and building the female factor and, you know, doing all these events, do you do anything to like balance your energy? Do you do anything like after the events, like spend time with yourself to like balance it all out?

What are some of your go to things to, to, to come down again from those high energy situations?

[00:21:04] Tanja: Yeah, I mean, I think it was so interesting to see now also, you know, cause I posted about the aura ring that checks all of that. And it was crazy, this conference, like I've never had that much stress in my life. It's like hilarious, like eight hours of constant stress. It was like, it did not get down. I learned for myself that, Really enough, Uber, when I take a Uber back home, I'm immediately in restorative mode.

So that's the fun part. And the heck that I, I just get in the cab and that's it.

[00:21:34] Hannah: Yeah.

[00:21:35] Tanja: That's how balance, but no, I mean, now living in the countryside, like, you know, having all of that, wait. Where I usually don't have the high pressure and the high extrovert environment anymore, it's much easier to balance immediately.

but for after the conference where it's like also I'm hosting and it was a lot, it was a full day conference with a lot of before and after like events, it was very hard, actually got sick after. So I was not really not surprised because like being, I don't know, I think it was four or five days in my extrovert role.

It was way too much. And, I mean, my, also because my husband was sick and he was with me, but, I really felt like, you know, exhausted. And then if I got a good night's sleep, it was on the next day, same thing I needed to talk. It was my team. So even if I knew them, it's still like, you know, talking to.

10 people at once and being in the same in the room the whole day with strangers. It's just, it is what it is. Even though I like them and even feel comfortable with them. It was too much. Like my max is like two people in once in one room. Okay. Three it's needed. And I really liked him, but about that, like, I just can't cope.

So it was really, really hard. And after that, I was just going into a hermit mode. You know, not talking to people, it's very easy. Again, I live in Cyprus, so there's not much around, so I can just be in the, you know, the seaside and that's it. and that's also, I got to say, if I'm looking back at my life, when I lived in Vienna, where I don't feel you have this recreational spaces that much.

Obviously there's a lot of like bad weather and all of that. I'm not saying it's all about the externals, but, it's really much easier now where I have a lot of sun and I can be out. And if I go to Vienna or like any other country for networking events, I'm there like for this couple of days and then I immediately can, you know, relax again by myself and I think that's a really good, but I also got to say that I really, I really make the most out of it then when I'm there, because I don't have it anymore.

but I can remember how like stressed and how. Yeah, generally just stressed as a person I was when I was living in Vienna, because it's a daily thing, you know, you commute, you're in the office, like it's constantly being out there. And honestly, for me, the best thing that happened, and I'm saying this since the very time was the pandemic, because it was suddenly so day to just work online and remote.

And like, you know, I choose when to interact with others and not like I'm constantly interacting with others. I got socially a little more awkward though, through that, but

[00:23:46] Hannah: Yeah. I think we all got, like, permission for introverts

[00:23:50] Tanja: Yeah, exactly.

[00:23:51] Hannah: their best social awkward selves during the pandemic. But, I love that you're saying that and obviously all these data points that we. learn about ourselves over time. Like, I find that so interesting with the aura ring. such as good for like sleeping patterns, but it's really like throughout the day, I will sometimes look back at my stress levels and I can pinpoint, oh, that meeting gave me a lot of stress.

I could feel that. And then I went out for a walk and I went back into restorative mode and it's such an indicator for like, well, that was really stressful moment for you. But you went out for a walk and that was the right thing to do to like, energy back. And, I feel like that is so powerful.

[00:24:32] Tanja: it's so powerful to know. I think 1 of the things that I learned now was very interesting as well. the best thing besides obviously being in a cab. That's what I learned. And obviously getting head massage from my husband. That's also really quickly talking about being with other people.

Obviously, I'm feeling comfortable with my husband. That's fine. But one other connection that gets me into restorative mode is being with my mom. I looked into this, I'm like, wow, what was the drop? And then I checked a couple of, she moved here too. So I'm having her more often around me. And I'm like, what?

Every time we talk and she's with me, it's so cute. No, I need to tell her. I still didn't, I haven't told her that. I realized that I think two days ago. And I'm like, oh my God, like how the nervous system reacts to, I don't know, your parents being around or something. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah.

[00:25:16] Hannah: Oh, I love that.

[00:25:17] Tanja: yeah, it's very cute.

Very good.

[00:25:19] Hannah: Oh, this is, this is so good. and I'm trying to hack myself into more restorative time because I don't quite know yet because it's still quite by surprise. I still don't know, you know, when it happens, I just kind of see, ah, it makes sense. I went for a walk. But it doesn't always happen.

So, that's good. And you kind of balancing the high energy socializing life with your life in Cyprus. And you just kind of said at the beginning, I'm living my best introverted life in Cyprus right now. What does that look like? What does like the perfect introvert day look like for you? Yeah. Oh,

[00:25:54] Tanja: I mean, being with my husband, with my dog, I definitely can recommend dogs for social anxiety as well. And it's also how, you know, I go and meet people. The only people I know here in Cyprus is because they also have a dog dog is the only way. Amazing. I mean, she, she hates dogs usually, but she loves other people.

So that works with her. but yeah, but like just being with them, I love to work and get stuff done. So that's something that's really important for me as well. so I'm usually working during the day. It's like a bit less now, cause I am transitioning out as a CEO of the human factor to being an advisory member.

So it's a very interesting time as well. Handing over the reins to the next generation and, but you're doing that out of sports. So I went back luckily into sports. So my stress levels are now, I don't know, half an hour, an hour a day only. So it's really, really nice for me meeting friends and having a good time in the, in the, all of that, but just like in doses, you know, and then 3 days, nothing.

And then, you know, maybe once a week where I can. Go and meet others. And then obviously with my mom, that's a different story that helps too. And, I really like to balance it with like trips and for example, to Vienna or, I mean, not now, but usually going to Israel or Tel Aviv where it's like such a high energy environment as well, I love that, you know, I really need that I am a fast person and I like to spare things and Israel gives you that.

but I also was a lot of times in Dubai with my business partner. So Madison. stayed a lot of times there last year specifically and over the winter times, and that's also something I really, you know, that's the balance that really makes life so much better for me than just being, for example, in Vienna where it's constantly this environment. So Vienna is a little slow too, but you know, still compared to what I prefer.

[00:27:32] Hannah: Yeah. But, I find that really interesting because we tend to think that, you know, there is just one angle to introversion and it has to always be the calm, quiet, you know, introspective environment. But you are such a good example for. You know, it's all these kinds of different things and you can be in the spotlight.

You can be at the events, you can, you know, extrovert and socialize to a certain level and you know, still be your introverted self and be authentic to yourself. It doesn't mean that you're anyone that you're not, but there are different facets to a personality and you're kind of living them out in many different places, which is beautiful.

[00:28:14] Tanja: Thank you. I'm trying.

[00:28:16] Hannah: Tanya, another thing that I wanted to talk with you about is. introverted leadership. And I saw on one of your LinkedIn posts that you mentioned, you know, you're an advocate for female empowerment when it comes to getting more females into leadership positions, but the progress has still remained quite slow.

And 50 percent of people still believe that women aren't as equipped to lead. And We see very similar insights and numbers when it comes to introvert leadership biases. There are many, executives who think that introverts are just not cut out for leadership. What do you think needs to shift both for women and for introverts in general to redefine the way we think about leadership and potentially change that narrative?

[00:29:02] Tanja: Yeah, I mean, it's something that I talk about in the last years, how hard it is to change the narrative because it's in our head and all what we've learned and seen over the last years and what we measured against was obviously loud and strong men in leadership roles. That's what's, I mean, the world just elected Trump again.

Isn't that the best? You know, example for what's going wrong in this world. So, it just takes forever. And apparently, because you just mentioned it to 50 percent of people that were asked are not thinking that women are good leaders are not as good leaders as men. So, it actually goes backwards now, according to the, like, a big index of leadership that I measure the perception of female leaders.

So it's really, really bad. And, we've talked to. The picture who was part of our speakers in the last conference that we hosted, and it's really bad because it's a lot of like, things that are together. Anything that we do also in around female empowerment. It is not 1 solution. Unfortunately. Otherwise we would have been there already and we would have equality everywhere.

But there's so many points that come together in so many layers. And, for her, it was as well, it's social media. It's a lot of like, you know, men out there that have a social media persona that say the wrong things, unfortunately, and a lot of the next generation believing them. So there's a lot of narrative shifts that are happening that are very, very painful to see, especially also for people that advocated for the change over the last years and saw it got better.

But honestly, with like, Recession and everything and things getting harder for a lot of people around the world. It's really, you know, a step backward. It is what it is. And, I think it will take us a long time to recover from that, you know, going backwards now again, and to reopen the conversation.

And as long again, as we have leaders as Trump now. Showing exactly what we don't want to see. it, it's like, it's problematic. So the one thing call to action for everyone who is an introvert leader is like, you know, be an advocate about what it means. cause it is role model to change if I can believe.

And like, if people see that me as an introvert leader can also be a good leader and that's how I act in a situation and all of that, it's all about that. You know, we, we do what we see. And if we don't see introvert leaders or female leaders on stage and in the press and in media and all of that, then obviously we don't think that, you know, it can be like that.

So, it is all about role modeling. That's at least what you can do if you're an introvert leader and also look out for those that are, you know, not as, loud in a room and like, make sure that they are heard and you see them. I mean, you know, I'm not holding people accountable how loud and opinionated they are in a room because.

That's not who I was when I started out. So I'm looking for different qualities anyways. and it's a slow change. That's what it is eventually, but it's a narrative that needs to change in our heads. And I think that's a bias that we all need to be very aware of constantly. And that's something that we try to remind everyone.

We're working with all the times, like, you know, How do you see that? Which lens are you looking through that? Is this really the absolute truth? Or is this something that you've seen and heard over the last, you know, years, basically, since you're on this planet, that this is the truth and these are the better leaders.

And it's usually not, you know, and if you look at the statistics and another keynote speaker we had at the conference was Joe Faulkman. From like one of the, you know, most successful, leadership, consultancies out there and to do a lot of studies. And one of them is saying women are better leaders.

And if you look at the traits that are needed in order to be an effective leader, it's usually what's come natural to, to women anyways. And the same is for introvert, you know, taking, looking out for others, collaborating doesn't need to be a need to be. Loud and like an extrovert, I know how to collaborate with others.

I take others into consideration and all of that. I create create win win situation. Things that we've already talked about, being obviously more strategic and connecting it to a higher good. Even better having the impact on all of that. So yeah, the stats are there is that it's good and we don't need this loud, dominant, powerful, you know, crazy leaders that we've had in the past.

it's a different, different set up now and it's a different things that people want to be led like, but it takes. That people really understand. That's what it.

[00:32:46] Hannah: Yeah. I like that. And it also kind of like puts the ball back into our corner in terms of like speaking up about, you know, your personality or your introversion and, and that being powerful. I feel like, unfortunately, it's not something that. Everybody puts out there. I feel like you kind of mentioning it on LinkedIn, that doesn't happen all the time.

Like people don't have a tag on their LinkedIn profile that says introvert. I would love that because then I would actually find more, you know, speakers or more, really good examples on the podcast, because that's what I think it takes is, is for more, introverts to, to speak up about it or to to talk about it and to talk about their journey.

[00:33:26] Tanja: and, and that's what, you know, really resonated with you because I think if I would have just looked at your profile, I would have never thought that you were an introvert. I think you often get that, right? Yeah. I've heard it all the time.

[00:33:37] Hannah: didn't think that you were introverted. So I

[00:33:39] Tanja: I never, I never reflected on that as well. So I think also with your podcast, you're doing such an important job and generally talking about it and reminding people of what it actually takes. You know, for me, yes, I'm an introvert and no one ever believed it.

And I remember when talking to my husband in the very early days when we started dating and in Hebrew, there's not even a word for introvertness. Obviously, I don't know if you ever met an Israeli. They're really not introvert. It's so funny. And he didn't understand what it exactly means.

[00:34:05] Hannah: Yeah. It's like, what do you mean? Why do you want to talk to the person at the grocery store?

[00:34:13] Tanja: Why do you need to recover after like, you know, being with like family for like seven hours straight, like, you know, things like that. Very interesting. so, yeah, there's no, no word for that. Like, also, we should maybe look to Israel and see how they live life. Yeah, because clearly they have it all figured out there.

but yeah, so, it's, it's something that you need to be always be made aware of that it is a problem, obviously for, or it can be a problem for others or a challenge, let's not say problem, it's a challenge for artists to overcome and that you need to talk about it. And because a lot of people are obviously approaching me and also during the conference, obviously saying, Hey, you know, your colleague just said that you're an introvert, like what I know that's why I made the post.

Cause people, but, you know, talking to me about it. so, yeah, we need to make people aware that they need to talk about it. That's what it is. So you're doing a great job.

[00:34:59] Hannah: We're just not bragging about being introverted. we always just kind of like, keep it, you know, low key. I feel like a lot of introvert

[00:35:06] Tanja: Yeah, yeah,

[00:35:08] Hannah: the corporate space, they tend to introduce themselves like that. They say, well, I'm a high energy extrovert. I love to connect.

I love to socialize, always come to me for when you have any, you know, that's something I would never say, obviously, because I'm not extroverted, but I would. I would very rarely would I say in the first interaction that I have with somebody. I'm an introvert and therefore I'm really, really good for this position.

Like I will talk about it. I will open up about, my personality more, especially now that I have the podcast. But it's just something that we brag about. And I think that's where we need to make a difference in the future is for introversion to be more of a natural trait that lends itself to that. For leadership position for, you know, make really making a difference and incorporate, but in the workplace in general.

[00:35:57] Tanja: but I think, as you just mentioned, like, I mean, the extrovert is selling it because obviously society, we believe that's a better trade to have. You need people that are out there, but as we also know that intravenous can be turned into strength. And what does it mean? And I think that's what we need to try to sell to others as well.

When you talk about it. What does it mean that I'm introvert and how do I act in certain situations? It's just a strength that I can describe now. Not when you start out in your career and you just feel socially awkward all the time, but once you get the hang of it, it's much easier to also sell it to others.

Because there's a lot of benefits to it. You know, you don't even need to be the one bragging and being on stage. And also why, for example, with my business partner, it always went so well because You can go out and speak and be the one. I mean, I'm fine too, because I made me being fine with it. I hated it in the start.

And I think it's really good to have the balance. So for me, I'm believing in dual leadership and, you know, sharing and having different competencies in a, in whatever, when you work together. So I think it's so important to also have others in there. And it's not always the extrovert person that is like, you know, the best person for the job, depending on what it is, you know, there's a lot of awareness that is really a gift.

And we just talked about it, me and my husband as well. Yeah. Like, I think me and Mattis, we are such a good, so Mattis is my business partner, the really extrovert one. She's like Persian. So she's out there. She gets the energy out of like, you know, talking to people and she doesn't mind like talking up to anyone.

She can negotiate a shit out of everything. I love that about her and I just get shit done. So the combination of us makes us successful because she's the one, you know, being out there and, selling and connecting and like, you know, being, being, Being all about her perfect, you know, extra itself and me, I'm like, you know, did always the backend work, like trying to make things working together, being the, you know, planning sheets and excels and all of that.

and I think that's such a super power to have to be connected. I can be the extrovert as well, and she can also do the sheets, but we play in our strength. And I think that's when, even when you hire and when you try to get a job, that's. You know, every leader should have that in mind as well. You need the different points and even the introvert can be on a stage and can sell, but maybe it's not the most favorite thing to do or where you can actually, you know, put them into best.

Yeah.

[00:38:01] Hannah: as well to find your extroverted, you know, people and partner up because we're obviously not here to say extroversion is a bad thing. I think both of them together, like, combined. Is, what we're really drawn to. I'm often drawn to extroverts. I have a lot of extrovert friends. and also in the business world and in corporate, I have a lot of extroverted colleagues.

I really, really like and the combination is what makes it so powerful. And that's also why I think that introverts have such a leg up when it comes to. Shaking things up a little bit in teams that are predominantly extroverted, like a lot of sales teams, marketing teams, you'll find a lot of extroverts naturally, so introverts can really come in and make a difference and bring a different perspective and, you know, add value that isn't there yet, or at an idea that isn't there yet.

So I feel like there's so much opportunity, but we do need to, you know, see it, and talk more about it.

[00:38:59] Tanja: 100%. 100%.

[00:39:01] Hannah: Is there anything like, in the team that you work with at the female factor or some of the communities that you've built where you see introverts and is there anything that you would sometimes see they do wrong or they could potentially do differently in order to, you know, I don't want to say stand out more, but is there anything that you would advise them to do differently?

Yeah,

[00:39:26] Tanja: I mean, usually when mentees, for example, come to me, it's a lot of times where they don't know how they start. So, you know, it's just feels very overwhelming. So I'm like working a lot with entrepreneurs, that's my, you know, sweet spot that I'd like to help them where you need them. Usually it is when you're starting out.

so it's a lot of times that. Yeah. It's a lot, you need to build a business, but you need to be out there and people like telling you need to be out there. I need to repeat this and that you need to raise funds and all of those things. So I'm always trying to, remind them on a superpower that we have, like taking things step by step, making sure that we're going to do, and then tackle one by one, instead of getting overwhelmed in the first place.

So I think as an introvert, also what you said before, there's a lot of expectations of like the general world and society that we believe we need to fit in. And I think that causes a lot of extra stress. and I think that's what I'm trying to remind people off. Like, okay, you know, you don't need to play by the rules that are currently set.

You can do it your way and like find a way that is truly natural and good for you. And that works as well. You know, you don't need to be this and that as well. You can go your own way and with your own pace. And that's also fine. And reminding them of that. I think that's really important. And, I think generally, and it goes back to role modeling when talking about my own company and my own team, I mean.

We have so many people that are so good in, what they're doing, but they don't need to be the extrovert self, but having a role model like me, where you also know where I thrive or that I, for example, read a text message instead of having a call, like all of the things that's what I'm living. It was very clashing in the beginning as well, but Madison me, because she's like, And when we talk about this on a call, I'm like, I'm going to get on a call now.

I'm like, this is a Slack message, you know, and learning that from both of us. I think it was very interesting for a lot of the team members to see that both is fine. We both are successful together because of who we are and how we do things and seeing, you know, the polarity of things. then the yin and the yang that we are, I think is really helpful for, people in our team to find their true self because it's not this or that is wrong or right.

both can be equally good. both can be, both you can be a founder and a leader and, they take what they like from us. And I think we made it possible for everyone to develop in the roles that they feel most natural in and, to elevate their strength. And because I just mentioned that, you know, transitioning in advisory board.

So we have. Lisa and Olena, that are complete different people as well. Lisa is like the one that is also supporting Madison sales and did a lot of business development the last years. And Olena like supported me in all the operations and product things. And she started as a junior project manager and intern actually in the first place.

And, she's also like, you know, like. She likes to get shit done as well. So that's why I loved working with her because we both were the ones building a lot of systems. And, you know, she came literally as an intern and is now the CEO of the company. that's also a leadership, you know, direction you're going.

You don't need to be the CEO that Lisa will take on. So she will be the one that is out there and talking to people. I have never met, and I love Marta as my co founder. She's really great. You can talk to everyone, but Lisa, our new CEO, she's literally, I She is the nicest person in the world and still in sales.

I don't know how she does it. Because she's so, you know, great at what she's doing, but she can talk to literally anyone I, when I go to with her networking events, it's even nicer and easier than with like modest, because anyone who approaches us, she can just, she's just so nice to them. She connects with everyone.

If it's an IT guy, another sales guy, a CEO, it doesn't matter. Everyone immediately loves her because she's so great. And she feels them make them feel so heard and seen. And, you know. She's so good in connecting and asking follow up questions that I could not come up with, especially if it's a standard, you know, small talk thing.

And I love that. So they both play into their, you know, strength, but they both are getting into the new leadership positions based on the complete different people that they are. So it is possible if you're true to yourself and play into that. But you also need people to see that, right? I, I was like, Olena needs to be the CEO.

She's great in that. She will, you know, thrive. The company needs her in that role, whereas like we were so, you know, sure that Lisa needs to be the CEO because she's the one like representing us on so many levels and everyone immediately likes her and she's so good in talking to everyone. It's perfect.

And together they will, you know, be for sure better than us, I swear to God.

[00:43:35] Hannah: well, that's the goal, right? But there's so many gold nuggets in what you said in terms of like, you need to find what's true to you, because I think it can be so easy to see somebody like the new CEO and go. Right. She does that so, so well. How am I ever going to measure up to that? And it's not about measuring up to that.

It's not about becoming the effortless networker at those events. If it's not something that's natural to you, it's about finding what is natural to you and making that work. Something that stands out and something that becomes a strength. And that is something that I needed a lot of time to understand.

And still, sometimes I will just feel a little bit triggered by somebody who was just such an effortless networker. And I would be, you know, jealous and like, oh, damn it. Why can I not be this person? It, you know, But, you know, there's different personalities and everybody does something super, super well, and I love that you're empower your team to find what it is that comes natural to them.

And also, the other thing that I really liked about what you said was challenging the rules that exist and, you know, trying to find your own way because it can be so easy to just kind of like look around and see how everybody else does it. And I feel like in the corporate world, that will easily be the extrovert way of going about it.

And what are you often being advised to do? Traditional career advice is still very much the extrovert path, like, you know, become more visible, be a little louder, reach out to senior leaders for like a coffee. And it can feel very daunting for introverts. So I feel like, you know, challenging some of those rules and principles can be.

So, so meaningful in like paving your own way and doing things slightly differently.

[00:45:18] Tanja: absolutely, but here as well, you know, if you, that's why the visibility also of the ones that did differently would be so important because if you know that, I don't know, the new partner managing partner is actually introvert or she did not connect with like, you know, the external, she did not have any speaking engagement.

She still made it. I think it's so important to learn from those two and those that those that are defined all of our rules newly that they are visible and that they show that it's possible.

[00:45:47] Hannah: Well, we need more introverts to like speak up. We need more introvert leaders to like come on the

[00:45:51] Tanja: only introverts though, it's diverse leaders, right? Like, that's, I think, the common sense in all of the, like, okay, you do it differently. Great. Let's talk about it. Let's showcase it. Like, let's show the next generation that it's possible, no matter how you are. There's really not the playbooks anymore than from back in the days.

So outdated.

[00:46:10] Hannah: Tanya, to end the conversation with, you're the expert when it comes to, you know, networking events and putting up, you know, events that create safe spaces, how can we do that for introverts? Like what does the perfect introvert friendly event looks like? What are some of the things that can be done differently to really make introverts feel safe?

like they're in a safe environment, like they can easily connect. Are there some things that you're already doing at your events that, you know, that are particularly introvert friendly?

[00:46:39] Tanja: I wish I could say yes, but I think we could do better in actually supporting it. But for me personally, what, helped me most and what we've done a couple of times when it's like curated, when it's smaller scale events, it's like when it's big, you can do it on scale with through apps, but like the best part for me was to make recommendations who they should talk to.

And why? Yeah, so it was like, I think we were 50 people or something, so it's on a smaller scale. It's easier. Also, we had dinners like a couple of times last year and also this year, which is 20 to 25 people in a very nice setting. So that's also much easier. And we set people next to each other where we know they had touch points and we talked, told them beforehand, you know, what, why we set them together.

Very nice. Cause much easier. I mean, it's all female executives. It's not that they should need it, you know, they should figure it out. But like, I had personally loved it. And I remember the last, the first time when we did that and we basically send a list with like three people, everyone should meet and why, and the LinkedIn links, obviously, and all of that beforehand.

And then they had the connection space. And. The feedback was so good because, you know, they felt taken care of. Now, it's not even about the intravenous, but every room left it even more. For sure. We didn't ask back then, but everyone felt we really saw them. We took into consideration what they wanted and needed.

And, you know, they had an easy time finding this person then and knowing what they can talk about. They were immediately business decisions made because they knew what they want to talk about and not just tiptoeing around it. You know? Great. And I think that's something that every event organizer, if it's possible, should do because it's makes such a difference, not only for introvert, but for everyone there.

It's like immediately, you know, you know, what are you in for?

[00:48:18] Hannah: no, I'm sure everyone appreciates that and it feels like it gives you the chance to prep in advance and to just kind of look into, you know, what is the common ground? What is something that we could talk about? what is something that I can bring to the table? to the table. I think that's also very important for introverts to understand what is something that I can give, to others.

I love that so much. Tanja, I've had so much fun, you know, talking to you. I feel like, you know, introverts connecting and, just kind of being seen. what would you leave my introverted audience with when it comes to, you know, potentially building community, finding their people, finding some of their, you know, allies?

potentially going to some of the events where they might find somebody, what is sort of like the first step everyone needs to make in order to find where they belong and build more connection?

[00:49:10] Tanja: think as you just said it, for me setting a goal and what you can actually do a call to action, something when you want and can give, maybe connecting to something higher that is beyond you or whatsoever, I think that's the first thing that at least empowers me to go out to speak for me, but I think it is a very powerful thing and then obviously researching what, who you want to connect to it and it doesn't matter if you go to an event or also if you want to invite, like, you know, if you want to host yourself, you You need to understand what's the target group and who you ideally want to have there and who you would want to talk to makes it much easier as well.

And then just connect beforehand. And even if you would, if I would restart now a community. I would do the same, like thinking of what's the theme and the, you know, what do I want to connect about? What is the space that I want to create and why? And what is the problem that I ideally solve? Every community should have a problem, why they bring people together that is strong enough for people to feel the kind of belonging, and then go out there and You know, put it on social media like you're doing these days and see who connects and also not feel like, you know, especially if you feel that you solve a problem and also going out and, you know, asking people to join.

I think it's a very empowering, way of doing things. If you know, you could solve a problem for this person and it might not be a fit for everyone, but for some, you could really change, you know, the game for them. Let's say we go out and say, you know, I want to be a connector for, introvert leaders or those leaders to be.

I think for those who are introverted, it hits the nail, like, you know, if you come in with like, hey, this is how we do it differently. And I think you should try and be part. Yes. If I'm an extrovert, I would maybe ask to speak, but, you know, better not go and get a know of it. So I think it's, yeah, it's just the preparation and knowing what you want and how you want to do things.

And, and. It will follow it is what it is,

[00:50:52] Hannah: Yeah.

[00:50:53] Tanja: really want to be serious about it, then obviously have a business case. So I think the 1 thing, I looked also back in the last years, we always wanted to make sure that the community to a building with the female factor is also a business and can operate properly and not like, you know.

It's just a nice community. That's what my business partner definitely brought in and what I love about it. We definitely want to have a business case so the thing can survive. And it's not, you know, it was a passion project. And after one year I was like so busy with my other job. So it was very, very hard to maintain it.

So if you make a business case, it's much easier to, you know, keep it in for the long run and have, you know, more skin in the game and more stake in

[00:51:29] Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:51:30] Tanja: but it's hard, community work is hard, nevertheless,

[00:51:32] Hannah: Yeah. Oh,

[00:51:33] Tanja: just putting it out there.

[00:51:35] Hannah: I wouldn't imagine, but it's, it's so really, really, really powerful. And I think that's how we met in the first place. Right. I had Alyssa on the podcast to then send me your LinkedIn posts. And then I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, an introvert who like talked about it.

This is, this is. Amazing. And, you know, you are exactly the type of role model I want to have on the podcast. So I'm so very grateful that you came on and that you opened up and shared about your experience and your journey, and this is what's going to make all the difference, I'm sure of it.

[00:52:04] Tanja: Well, thank you for having me, Hannah. It was really fun talking about my introvertedness with you, with another introvert fellow that understands it.

[00:52:12] Hannah: Tanja, is there anything, you know, that you want to leave my audience with in terms of how they can connect with the female factor? If there are any events out there that they may want to get involved with, where can

[00:52:22] Tanja: yeah, I mean, it's all on femalefactor. global, but you can also connect obviously with me on LinkedIn. I'm happy to introduce you to whoever you need, as you've heard in the podcast. And yeah, I think there's a lot of introverts in our community as well on the Female Factor, so you'll definitely find Retribe there too.

[00:52:37] Hannah: Ah, I love that. Cool. Well, thank you so much.

[00:52:41] Tanja: Thank you.