1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,280 Adam Outland: Welcome back Action Catalyst listeners. 2 00:00:02,310 --> 00:00:06,450 Today's guest has a tremendous background in both psychology 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:10,950 and sports, having spent time on the court with elite NBA stars 4 00:00:10,980 --> 00:00:13,560 such as Steph Curry, and he's blended that experience with 5 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:17,460 neuroscience and practical exercises to help leaders face 6 00:00:17,460 --> 00:00:21,450 challenges for navigating the pandemic to employee retention, 7 00:00:21,510 --> 00:00:25,470 company culture and more. He's also a sought after speaker and 8 00:00:25,470 --> 00:00:29,760 founder of Mind Shift Labs. And his name is Mike Lee. Thank you 9 00:00:29,790 --> 00:00:32,190 for making the time for this, Mike. Where are you Zooming in 10 00:00:32,190 --> 00:00:32,670 from? 11 00:00:33,150 --> 00:00:33,780 Mike Lee: LA. 12 00:00:33,870 --> 00:00:35,250 Adam Outland: Originally from Wisconsin? 13 00:00:35,460 --> 00:00:38,430 Mike Lee: I am originally from Wisconsin. Yeah, right in the 14 00:00:38,430 --> 00:00:42,330 middle of state the middle of absolutely nowhere growing up, 15 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,030 you had to drive I don't know back then the roads weren't the 16 00:00:45,030 --> 00:00:49,020 same. So we had to go is a good three and a half, maybe four 17 00:00:49,020 --> 00:00:52,200 hours depending on you know, visit my grandma or parents 18 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:57,240 driving along to get to Milwaukee or Minneapolis. So how 19 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,180 do you What's your connection to this? 20 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,730 Adam Outland: The nutshell version? When I was in college 21 00:01:02,730 --> 00:01:05,790 at University of Maryland, I sold educational books door to 22 00:01:05,790 --> 00:01:06,240 door. 23 00:01:06,330 --> 00:01:08,910 Mike Lee: So did my buddy. What was it? The company? 24 00:01:09,030 --> 00:01:09,900 Adam Outland: Southwestern. 25 00:01:09,930 --> 00:01:13,770 Mike Lee: Yeah. Oh, is this the same? Same organization? No way. 26 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,840 No way. So yeah, one of my buddies did the same thing. So 27 00:01:18,900 --> 00:01:21,750 you're familiar with the small town Wisconsin. 28 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:22,650 Adam Outland: Oh, yeah. 29 00:01:22,710 --> 00:01:25,140 Mike Lee: I mean, that's where I grew up. 30 00:01:25,170 --> 00:01:28,290 Adam Outland: Summer sausage and cheese curds. Man. It was great. 31 00:01:28,380 --> 00:01:30,840 Mike Lee: It's great when you're that age. Today, it takes a 32 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:31,380 toll. 33 00:01:33,310 --> 00:01:35,410 Adam Outland: You've got to connect the middle of nowhere 34 00:01:35,410 --> 00:01:39,460 Wisconsin, and you studied a concentration in basketball 35 00:01:39,460 --> 00:01:40,390 entrepreneurship. 36 00:01:40,660 --> 00:01:44,290 Mike Lee: You went deep into my bio. Where did you... I don't 37 00:01:44,290 --> 00:01:46,000 even know where that's listed anymore. 38 00:01:46,090 --> 00:01:49,420 Adam Outland: Zach's like a ninja at pulling information up. 39 00:01:50,650 --> 00:01:52,720 Mike Lee: Yeah, I can talk about that a little bit. Yeah, for 40 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,390 sure. I'm talking about that a long time. But yeah, I think 41 00:01:55,390 --> 00:01:57,910 it's a great lesson. Actually. Honestly, there's some there's a 42 00:01:57,910 --> 00:02:00,790 good lesson out of it. So probably like my junior year in 43 00:02:00,790 --> 00:02:05,200 college, I realized that I was never going to get a job. It 44 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:09,250 started my basketball camp, my summer basketball camp. We 45 00:02:09,250 --> 00:02:12,010 started with one camp small town to Wisconsin, like we've been 46 00:02:12,010 --> 00:02:16,570 talking about. It kept growing. And we we had 100 kids show up 47 00:02:16,570 --> 00:02:20,170 the first year town at 15,000 people. The second year was we 48 00:02:20,170 --> 00:02:24,040 had over 200 kids. Third year was 300 kids and I just I knew I 49 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:30,130 wasn't gonna get a job. So my advisor was just very aware of 50 00:02:30,370 --> 00:02:32,680 what I was going to where it comes from. When you have a 51 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,940 degree in psychology. At the school, you also have to have a 52 00:02:36,970 --> 00:02:41,500 minor or a concentration. And so what he'd let me do because he 53 00:02:41,500 --> 00:02:45,220 was I think he was in charge of the department was he let me 54 00:02:45,250 --> 00:02:50,050 essentially create my own minor. And he let me create it in 55 00:02:50,050 --> 00:02:53,350 basketball, entrepreneurship, and I picked all these different 56 00:02:53,350 --> 00:02:57,670 classes that would help me in this career that I was creating 57 00:02:57,670 --> 00:03:00,580 kind of Otter nothing I mean, now today, you can pick up a 58 00:03:00,580 --> 00:03:03,850 rock and throw it you'll hit a basketball trainer that's that's 59 00:03:03,850 --> 00:03:07,600 working with kids back then you nobody's really, really doing it 60 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:12,490 like we were doing it. And so he saw that and realize that T 61 00:03:12,490 --> 00:03:16,930 should prepare me for real life not going to, you know, get in a 62 00:03:16,930 --> 00:03:20,110 job and working somewhere. And so that's kind of where that 63 00:03:20,110 --> 00:03:21,610 came from, yeah he was awesome. 64 00:03:21,820 --> 00:03:25,480 Adam Outland: Yes. Graduating from what I know around '06, but 65 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,860 in '05, you also founded the Wisconsin playmakers basketball 66 00:03:29,860 --> 00:03:30,220 club. 67 00:03:30,640 --> 00:03:35,440 Mike Lee: Yeah, so in 2003, a buddy of mine, and he were 68 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,380 talking and like I was talking about earlier, I grew up in a 69 00:03:38,380 --> 00:03:40,570 town in middle of nowhere, right. And we wanted we just 70 00:03:40,570 --> 00:03:44,860 wanted to run a basketball camp. And we got a gym, got some 71 00:03:44,860 --> 00:03:49,270 coaches together. I printed flyers on my I designed a flyer 72 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,140 in Microsoft Word on my mom's computer, printed it out. We 73 00:03:53,140 --> 00:03:56,050 just took it around town everywhere we set it out the 74 00:03:56,050 --> 00:03:59,230 high school coaches, you know, I'm dating myself, but we you 75 00:03:59,230 --> 00:04:01,570 know, we mailed it. You know, the first year was our kids 76 00:04:01,570 --> 00:04:05,320 second years to our kids. Bam, by the third year, we had 300 77 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,860 Kids and at the time, I actually thought I want to coach college 78 00:04:08,860 --> 00:04:12,130 basketball. And I realized that I wanted to coach college 79 00:04:12,130 --> 00:04:17,680 basketball, that my best avenue was not going and being a 80 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:22,360 manager doing laundry, cleaning the floor at some division one 81 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,750 school and trying to work my way up. My best way was to 82 00:04:25,750 --> 00:04:29,200 essentially create my own brand outside of the college 83 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,320 basketball world, and then leverage that to get into 84 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,860 coaching college basketball. I wanted to be in the gym. I 85 00:04:35,860 --> 00:04:38,020 wanted to work with kids. I didn't want to spend my time 86 00:04:38,020 --> 00:04:42,760 doing the managerial janitorial stuff with a you know, college 87 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:47,350 basketball program. And that just kind of evolved. We started 88 00:04:47,350 --> 00:04:50,680 working with kids from Central northern Wisconsin where there 89 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,950 were no programs there were you know, you had the drive, like I 90 00:04:53,950 --> 00:04:57,280 was talking about earlier to Minneapolis or Milwaukee to get 91 00:04:57,280 --> 00:04:59,980 access to these types of programs. And that's so that's 92 00:05:00,010 --> 00:05:04,390 We created this club for. And I just believe that these kids had 93 00:05:04,390 --> 00:05:06,970 an opportunity. Some of these kids with the right train the 94 00:05:06,970 --> 00:05:11,440 right work the right skills and resources that they can play at 95 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,670 the same level. And that's what happened. And we had kids that 96 00:05:15,670 --> 00:05:20,440 went out to play, NCAA Tournament get drafted in the 97 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,490 NBA Draft two game winning shots in the NCAA Tournament. It just 98 00:05:24,490 --> 00:05:27,700 was a it just evolved. That's something that I look back on. 99 00:05:27,700 --> 00:05:30,430 And that's what we did, then, like, we just stay focused on 100 00:05:30,430 --> 00:05:33,280 the little things. And we just focus on them day after day 101 00:05:33,280 --> 00:05:36,940 after day after day, and trusted in the process. 102 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,900 Adam Outland: Do you feel like it was the reps doing some of 103 00:05:39,900 --> 00:05:43,860 that coaching with the kids that helped form some of what you 104 00:05:43,860 --> 00:05:46,500 deliver on stage and talk to people about? Talk to me a 105 00:05:46,500 --> 00:05:49,020 little bit about how you get from where you were doing that 106 00:05:49,020 --> 00:05:51,660 to what you share on stage today. 107 00:05:52,050 --> 00:05:54,690 Mike Lee: There's definitely some of that no question about 108 00:05:54,690 --> 00:05:58,530 it. Being involved in sports, since you know, eight, nine 109 00:05:58,530 --> 00:06:01,290 years old, you kind of the fish in the water. And you don't 110 00:06:01,290 --> 00:06:05,160 realize you take for granted a lot of lessons you take for 111 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,640 granted a lot of the mindsets and the things that the belief 112 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:13,080 systems and things that you have to instill in yourself, and 113 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,480 instill in the people that you're working with the players 114 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,320 that you're working with, in order to be at an elite level. 115 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,370 And I think I took that for granted. And so I definitely 116 00:06:23,430 --> 00:06:26,550 these are definitely things that translate to the business space 117 00:06:26,550 --> 00:06:29,490 to being a better leader to being a high performer. No 118 00:06:29,490 --> 00:06:35,610 question about it. But really, the the transition came when I 119 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,940 you know, we had built this company in Milwaukee, and but I 120 00:06:38,940 --> 00:06:42,120 always dealt with depression my whole life. I used to get super, 121 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,090 super depressed in the winters in Wisconsin, not getting out of 122 00:06:45,090 --> 00:06:48,090 bed till three or four o'clock in the afternoon. Global 123 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,900 pressure. I mean, it was brutal. I mean, my my barometer was if 124 00:06:51,900 --> 00:06:56,370 I'm aching out of bed, and I imagined that somebody called me 125 00:06:56,370 --> 00:06:59,070 and said Kobe Bryant is at your facility right now and he wants 126 00:06:59,070 --> 00:07:02,280 to get a workout in. And that doesn't excite you and you don't 127 00:07:02,280 --> 00:07:05,670 want to get out of bed, then you're definitely in a going 128 00:07:05,670 --> 00:07:09,720 through a depressive state. Yeah. And so it just got to a 129 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,890 point where I decided that I cannot take another winter here, 130 00:07:13,890 --> 00:07:16,470 I just cannot take another winter in Wisconsin. And I 131 00:07:16,470 --> 00:07:19,770 picked up and I had moved out to LA purely for the weather. And I 132 00:07:19,770 --> 00:07:22,020 decided to get off an antidepressant medication that 133 00:07:22,020 --> 00:07:28,350 had been on for about 14 years. And getting off of it was one of 134 00:07:28,350 --> 00:07:32,220 the I shouldn't say one of it was beat up this thing that I 135 00:07:32,220 --> 00:07:35,580 had ever gone through in my life. There are there's board 136 00:07:35,580 --> 00:07:39,960 certified doctors at UCLA that are that are now comparing the 137 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:44,370 withdrawal symptoms of some of these medications to getting off 138 00:07:44,370 --> 00:07:49,710 of heroin. Wow. And to get off of it, I decided to commit to a 139 00:07:49,710 --> 00:07:53,850 daily mindfulness meditation practice. And after a couple 140 00:07:53,850 --> 00:07:58,200 months of consistent practice, I realized why elite athletes like 141 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:02,250 Kobe, white luminaries like Oprah and CEOs, like Steve Jobs 142 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,850 all attributed some form of a meditation practice to their 143 00:08:05,850 --> 00:08:10,650 level of success. It gave me the ability to be present to be 144 00:08:10,650 --> 00:08:14,580 fully present in the moment. And I knew as a former athlete, and 145 00:08:14,580 --> 00:08:17,460 coach and everything that we want exists in the present 146 00:08:17,460 --> 00:08:20,730 moment, being in a state of flow exists in the present moment 147 00:08:20,730 --> 00:08:23,970 being in the zone exists in the present moment, the connection 148 00:08:23,970 --> 00:08:27,030 that you have to create with the people that you're leading 149 00:08:27,330 --> 00:08:31,710 exists in the present moment. You want to show up with empathy 150 00:08:31,830 --> 00:08:34,800 that exists in the present moment, everything that we want, 151 00:08:35,370 --> 00:08:38,370 as a leader, as a high performer, as an entrepreneur, 152 00:08:38,580 --> 00:08:42,300 exists in the present moment. And so I realized that that at 153 00:08:42,300 --> 00:08:47,700 that point, I had a deeper purpose in life. And instead of 154 00:08:47,700 --> 00:08:50,190 building basketball players, it was the build people on to build 155 00:08:50,190 --> 00:08:53,460 leaders. And that's one of the inflection points from where 156 00:08:53,460 --> 00:08:57,240 I've gone from basketball space to what I'm doing today. 157 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,270 Adam Outland: I love that story. Because it starts with self 158 00:09:00,270 --> 00:09:03,570 application, right? It's like, oh, no other people need this 159 00:09:03,570 --> 00:09:06,450 resource. It starts with no, I needed it, right. And then as an 160 00:09:06,450 --> 00:09:09,450 extension of that I can equip others, but what gave you the 161 00:09:09,450 --> 00:09:13,770 belief? Not many people just go, Hey, I'm going to move out to LA 162 00:09:13,770 --> 00:09:16,890 with no network and just randomly start a whole new 163 00:09:16,890 --> 00:09:19,890 business that I feel really confident. Because there's so 164 00:09:19,890 --> 00:09:24,000 much associated risk with the idea of relocating and building 165 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,420 something from the ground up. Talk about that new idea a 166 00:09:27,420 --> 00:09:30,150 little bit more and getting Mind Shift Labs up and running. 167 00:09:30,630 --> 00:09:32,760 Mike Lee: Well, there's there's a couple things, I think, yeah, 168 00:09:32,790 --> 00:09:36,000 I think Tony Robbins says we either we either change because 169 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,450 we're in so much pain, or because we have a compelling 170 00:09:39,450 --> 00:09:41,790 vision. We're either pushed by pain or we're pulled by a 171 00:09:41,790 --> 00:09:46,080 compelling vision. And as you know, I'm not even getting into 172 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,440 the worst of the worst, but you know, when you are can't get out 173 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,530 of bed so three or four o'clock in the afternoon. Sometimes 174 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:56,130 you're pushed to make a decision, even if it doesn't 175 00:09:56,130 --> 00:10:00,630 seem rational. Another inflection point was I will was 176 00:10:00,690 --> 00:10:03,180 going through this period of getting off of getting off a 177 00:10:03,180 --> 00:10:07,110 medication, there was the acute withdrawal symptoms for several 178 00:10:07,110 --> 00:10:09,750 months. And then there's what's called the post acute withdrawal 179 00:10:09,750 --> 00:10:14,550 symptoms, which are where these medications shut down your 180 00:10:14,550 --> 00:10:19,200 natural serotonin production. And so when you get off of them, 181 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:23,220 your body is not producing any serotonin. So after I was 182 00:10:23,220 --> 00:10:26,490 completely off was actually worse, a good three and a half 183 00:10:26,490 --> 00:10:30,300 years, or I'm going with that as it is I was trying to make sense 184 00:10:30,300 --> 00:10:34,410 of all this. I knew given the withdrawal. So there was no way 185 00:10:34,410 --> 00:10:38,040 I was going back on something like that incredibly emotionally 186 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,700 unstable. And so I was watching, I am not your guru at Tony 187 00:10:41,700 --> 00:10:45,840 Robbins, but I know he's kind of a divisive person. Some people 188 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,540 love them, some people hate them. But they asked, Why do you 189 00:10:48,540 --> 00:10:51,870 keep doing this? You have houses all across the world, you could 190 00:10:51,870 --> 00:10:54,780 have quit 10 years ago, why do you keep doing this? And he 191 00:10:54,780 --> 00:10:58,950 said, I have an insatiable desire or an insatiable desire 192 00:10:58,950 --> 00:11:01,860 to alleviate suffering for as many people as I possibly can in 193 00:11:01,860 --> 00:11:05,850 my lifetime. And I just started to cry like crazy, because I 194 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:10,170 that gave my pain and suffering purpose, because I knew that 195 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,170 everything that I was learning, the internal skills, the 196 00:11:13,170 --> 00:11:17,190 emotional resilience, the self awareness, all of these things, 197 00:11:17,220 --> 00:11:21,240 I was going to be able to I was building this massive toolkit 198 00:11:21,270 --> 00:11:23,730 that I'd be able to take and then teach to other people. 199 00:11:24,290 --> 00:11:26,870 Adam Outland: That's awesome. And it's true. I mean, the it's 200 00:11:26,870 --> 00:11:31,160 so difficult to give coaching and guidance to others, if you 201 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,880 don't have the empathy of having been there yourself. Right. And 202 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,540 so some of the best coaches I know, are people that have had 203 00:11:38,540 --> 00:11:41,360 some of the darkest moments because they can go there, right 204 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,270 with clients. So I totally appreciate that. So for the 205 00:11:44,270 --> 00:11:46,400 listeners on the podcast, I mean, you've worked with some 206 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:50,360 really outstanding athletes. You know, Steph Curry is on your 207 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,760 website, what are some of the things that have translated 208 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,850 really well from from your personal experience, and it 209 00:11:55,850 --> 00:11:57,980 makes these things and when I say things, I guess what I'm 210 00:11:57,980 --> 00:12:01,070 asking for is, you know, what's the strategy? What are some 211 00:12:01,070 --> 00:12:03,260 ideas you you share that have been effective? 212 00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:05,270 Mike Lee: I'd love to share something with Steph because 213 00:12:05,270 --> 00:12:09,530 it's something that I'm still working on today. It's something 214 00:12:09,530 --> 00:12:12,140 that I learned from him just being or being able to be around 215 00:12:12,140 --> 00:12:15,050 him at his for skills academy that he ran, then being able to 216 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,050 stay in touch though in bed, you know, go into pregame workouts 217 00:12:18,260 --> 00:12:24,470 when he was in LA. And in Milwaukee. The short story is I 218 00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:28,310 brought a kid with me one year to watch Steph go through a 219 00:12:28,310 --> 00:12:31,040 pregame workout, a kid that was working with our basketball 220 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:36,440 company, and the conversation that unfolded with between this, 221 00:12:36,470 --> 00:12:41,720 this kid and stuff, I realized that yeah, Steph put a ton of 222 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,630 time in on the court. He's passionate about the game. But 223 00:12:44,690 --> 00:12:48,050 he did define his self worth by his performance on the 224 00:12:48,050 --> 00:12:50,810 basketball court. He was having this conversation with with this 225 00:12:50,810 --> 00:12:53,870 kid about friends about school about his family, other 226 00:12:53,870 --> 00:12:57,110 interests outside of basketball, I realized that that stuff 227 00:12:57,110 --> 00:13:01,730 defines his self worth by the totality of his human experience 228 00:13:01,730 --> 00:13:04,460 by how he is as a husband, a father, an activist, and 229 00:13:04,460 --> 00:13:08,180 entrepreneur. And that takes pressure off and when he steps 230 00:13:08,180 --> 00:13:11,600 out on the court, and this is what allows him to be in this 231 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,590 state of flow that allows him to play with so much joy, freedom, 232 00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:18,920 gratitude, and creativity because he goes one for 10 For 233 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,260 the three point line, or nine for 10. From the three point 234 00:13:21,260 --> 00:13:24,080 line, when he walks off the court, he's going to feel the 235 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:28,820 same way about himself. And so this is what what allows him to 236 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,240 drop into the present moment where like I was talking about 237 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,670 before, right? The present moments where everything that we 238 00:13:34,670 --> 00:13:38,750 want in life in business exists, right, it's in the present 239 00:13:38,750 --> 00:13:42,950 moment, locking in on that, that task at hand, his belief that I 240 00:13:42,950 --> 00:13:45,980 am more than an athlete allows him to do that. And I think 241 00:13:45,980 --> 00:13:49,910 that's a lesson that we can all all take into any area of life. 242 00:13:49,910 --> 00:13:52,850 I'm more than an entrepreneur, I'm more than a speaker, I'm 243 00:13:52,850 --> 00:13:58,490 more than a podcast host I'm more than a, whatever it is. It 244 00:13:58,490 --> 00:14:02,300 allows us to take some of that that weight off that pressure 245 00:14:02,300 --> 00:14:06,710 off the standards and the expectations that we place on 246 00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:10,370 ourselves that help us get to the top and also be the things 247 00:14:10,370 --> 00:14:15,500 that make us fall off the mound. And so I think it sounds 248 00:14:15,500 --> 00:14:21,680 counterintuitive that we would place our identity in a variety 249 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,640 of things, but it actually I think it makes us better in all 250 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:26,330 areas. 251 00:14:26,930 --> 00:14:30,170 Adam Outland: Yeah. If you're a parent and your kid is your 252 00:14:30,170 --> 00:14:33,200 entire life where that kid graduates and doesn't really 253 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,980 quote unquote need you as much anymore. It tears parents up, 254 00:14:37,010 --> 00:14:40,160 right? If you're, you're an athlete, and that's your entire 255 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,550 box like it is for so many college athletes. And so there's 256 00:14:43,550 --> 00:14:47,000 so much merit I think to everybody that listens to the 257 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,540 more elaborate your boxes with where confidence is spread out 258 00:14:50,540 --> 00:14:53,810 between family and health and all these different interests 259 00:14:53,810 --> 00:14:56,480 and things that you've developed. It creates a lot more 260 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,750 of a foundation if you if if and when you lose one of those 261 00:14:59,750 --> 00:15:02,420 spots. Since it doesn't absorb the whole thing. 262 00:15:02,780 --> 00:15:07,490 Mike Lee: 100% yea. And it's a tough thing. What's really tough 263 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,150 is when you're so passionate about something to separate 264 00:15:11,150 --> 00:15:15,050 yourself from it, we're so attached is not the right word, 265 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,260 intertwine. We're so intertwined with our work, as you know, 266 00:15:18,260 --> 00:15:22,760 especially if you are an entrepreneur, and this business 267 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,960 is something that you birth, like, it's your child. Like, 268 00:15:26,990 --> 00:15:31,490 it's so it's really difficult to do that. But I think there's a 269 00:15:31,490 --> 00:15:33,110 lot of power in it when you do. 270 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,230 Adam Outland: You know, it's got some, I guess, relatability to 271 00:15:36,230 --> 00:15:39,590 like that Zen culture of like, it's not detachment from 272 00:15:39,590 --> 00:15:42,920 everything in life, but being careful to not put too much 273 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,710 attachment and interweave too much of yourself and things. I 274 00:15:45,710 --> 00:15:48,560 mean, is that part of what you believe or agree in somewhat. 275 00:15:48,950 --> 00:15:52,670 Mike Lee: 100%, I am working on that every single day non 276 00:15:52,670 --> 00:15:56,810 judgment and detachment, I really want when an event 277 00:15:56,810 --> 00:16:02,330 happens, like just being completely detached from it, and 278 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:06,500 and not judging it, I really don't know, I think it's hard to 279 00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:11,930 describe this without coming off as being a victim, one of my 280 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:16,190 beliefs that I hold and and I truly try to apply this in 281 00:16:16,190 --> 00:16:20,450 everything that I do. And that's I know nothing, right. And it's 282 00:16:20,450 --> 00:16:25,640 coming from a place of humility, but also just complete 283 00:16:25,730 --> 00:16:29,840 detachment from from expectations for results from 284 00:16:29,900 --> 00:16:33,320 material things for relationships, and it's more so 285 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,650 coming from it sounds cold, it sounds like, you know, you're 286 00:16:36,650 --> 00:16:39,410 not Oh, you're not emotionally invested in anything. It's not 287 00:16:39,410 --> 00:16:42,320 that I'm not emotionally invested in things, I'm just 288 00:16:42,350 --> 00:16:47,300 psychologically try to detach from an expectation of an 289 00:16:47,330 --> 00:16:50,240 outcome, I guess, is the best way to put it. Because I think, 290 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,690 you know, I can't tell you how many things I've worked on in my 291 00:16:53,690 --> 00:16:59,540 life where I have, I've worked insanely hard at something, and 292 00:16:59,540 --> 00:17:03,770 it just did not come to life. But there are also things that 293 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,890 that just kind of came through that I had feel like I had no 294 00:17:06,890 --> 00:17:10,640 influence on it, right. And so just really coming from that 295 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:15,890 place of detachment, I think is super, super powerful. And, and 296 00:17:15,890 --> 00:17:20,060 the reason it's powerful is it allows you to stay centered, it 297 00:17:20,060 --> 00:17:23,360 allows you to stay grounded, it allows you to stay in the 298 00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:26,690 present moment, right? If we get super attached to a future 299 00:17:26,690 --> 00:17:29,660 outcome that's going to drive our mind so far to the future 300 00:17:29,660 --> 00:17:32,990 that it takes us off of what we can actually control in the 301 00:17:32,990 --> 00:17:37,250 present moment. Right. And then if the outcome does not 302 00:17:37,250 --> 00:17:41,120 manifest, and we are super attached to it, now we are stuck 303 00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:44,900 in the past. And we're also out of the present moment. So I 304 00:17:44,900 --> 00:17:47,870 think there's there's a there's a lot of power in in the 305 00:17:47,870 --> 00:17:50,450 practice of detachment and non judgement. 306 00:17:50,990 --> 00:17:53,510 Adam Outland: Yeah. So talk about like functionality, 307 00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:56,390 because knowing this stuff, you gotta meet people where they're 308 00:17:56,390 --> 00:17:59,390 at, right, and I'm assuming doing the work that you do at 309 00:17:59,390 --> 00:18:03,500 that level, and you're getting with people that haven't 310 00:18:03,500 --> 00:18:06,290 experienced any of that, that don't necessarily share that 311 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,410 core belief set before they start working with you. So what 312 00:18:09,410 --> 00:18:12,890 are some things that you do in the beginning of a relationship 313 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,750 to kind of open them up to explore. 314 00:18:15,170 --> 00:18:18,950 Mike Lee: Such a great question, it comes down to awareness, just 315 00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:23,570 really being aware of where they're at being able to see the 316 00:18:23,570 --> 00:18:28,370 next step for them, and not taking them, you know, if they 317 00:18:28,370 --> 00:18:31,490 only need to go one step not trying to take them eight steps, 318 00:18:31,700 --> 00:18:36,140 because that's where you're at? I think there is some ego 319 00:18:36,140 --> 00:18:38,930 involved in that. It's like, well, this is this is where I'm 320 00:18:38,930 --> 00:18:43,760 at, and this is the knowledge that I have in this moment that 321 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:52,010 is relevant for me, and and I, the ego, like I had to achieve 322 00:18:52,010 --> 00:18:54,710 this or go through this or whatever it is to get to this 323 00:18:54,710 --> 00:18:57,890 level. So I should be, I should be teaching at this level. 324 00:18:58,220 --> 00:19:00,920 Right? When the reality of is it's not about you, it's about 325 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:06,260 them. And you might have to scale back to make things timely 326 00:19:06,260 --> 00:19:10,040 and relevant and actionable for where they are at in this 327 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,920 moment. And so I think it comes down to awareness and getting 328 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:13,820 out of your ego. 329 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,000 Adam Outland: Yeah. So how do you share some of this message, 330 00:19:17,030 --> 00:19:19,700 some of your message, is an application and leadership that 331 00:19:19,700 --> 00:19:22,550 helped them change their approach to working with their 332 00:19:22,550 --> 00:19:23,090 people. 333 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,060 Mike Lee: I think the first thing is getting clear on vision 334 00:19:26,060 --> 00:19:29,840 and getting clear on purpose. I think everything is driven from 335 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:34,760 those two things ethic when we get crystal clear on those that 336 00:19:34,940 --> 00:19:39,050 can drive the process to bring bring those things to life and I 337 00:19:39,050 --> 00:19:46,070 think especially in in today's world, getting crystal clear on 338 00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:52,250 your purpose and your why is it's just so so important. If I 339 00:19:52,250 --> 00:19:56,870 didn't have purpose and meaning over the past, just you know 340 00:19:56,870 --> 00:20:00,770 what, what everything that I've kind of shared you I don't know 341 00:20:00,770 --> 00:20:02,750 where I would be to be honest with you like I was in some 342 00:20:02,750 --> 00:20:10,460 really, really bad places. But But I had a connection to 343 00:20:10,460 --> 00:20:16,160 something bigger than myself, I had some sort of why. And the 344 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,280 research shows that having a clearly defined purpose, 345 00:20:19,550 --> 00:20:22,280 improves your motivation improves focus, and improves 346 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:28,280 your resilience. And so I think as much as it's important to get 347 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:33,230 clear on that, to get to the next level to bring this vision 348 00:20:33,230 --> 00:20:36,650 to life, it is even more important to get clear on it for 349 00:20:36,650 --> 00:20:39,080 when you go through adversity. Because when you go through 350 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:43,220 adversity, you need a vision to rely upon, you need a why, 351 00:20:43,250 --> 00:20:45,380 because you're going to get knocked down, things are not 352 00:20:45,380 --> 00:20:48,710 going to go as planned, the strategy is not going to go from 353 00:20:48,740 --> 00:20:52,670 A to B, B to C, C to D, like you had written out, your five year 354 00:20:52,670 --> 00:20:56,120 plan is not going to work. It's more serious, you know, six to 355 00:20:56,120 --> 00:21:00,620 12 month plan in today's world. And so getting getting clear on 356 00:21:00,620 --> 00:21:08,150 the why, and then being open to how that actually manifests, 357 00:21:08,180 --> 00:21:12,860 right? And a perfect example, I guess is is with COVID. And 358 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:14,780 hopefully we don't have to go through anything like this 359 00:21:14,780 --> 00:21:16,880 again. But you know, the reality of it is we're going to go 360 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,220 through something like something's going to happen, 361 00:21:19,220 --> 00:21:24,920 right? And so a lot of service based industries that we're 362 00:21:25,250 --> 00:21:28,130 working with people in person or the fitness industry, the 363 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,270 speaking industry is a great example. You had to go back. 364 00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:35,540 Yeah, I can't be with people in person right now. But what is 365 00:21:35,540 --> 00:21:40,340 the impact that I want to make? And what avenue what, what 366 00:21:40,340 --> 00:21:43,970 medium can I use in order to get to the end result to get to the 367 00:21:43,970 --> 00:21:48,710 impact? And I think knowing your purpose allows you to focus on 368 00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:52,910 not so much be attached to the process of the impact, but the 369 00:21:52,910 --> 00:21:54,830 impact itself? If that makes sense. 370 00:21:55,110 --> 00:22:00,240 Adam Outland: Yeah. And I think about college, or high school 371 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,960 students where they're going through, a lot of them went 372 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,690 through a massive depressive period during COVID. Because 373 00:22:06,690 --> 00:22:10,530 they were isolated. I mean, and so I guess, you know, if you 374 00:22:10,530 --> 00:22:13,710 have one, what would be kind of an action that you would 375 00:22:13,710 --> 00:22:16,770 suggest, whether it's, you know, a college athlete that maybe 376 00:22:16,770 --> 00:22:20,010 just got injured, and it's going through that kind of function, 377 00:22:20,490 --> 00:22:24,060 reprocessing their future, it's, it's figured out a new vision, 378 00:22:24,090 --> 00:22:26,490 but what what are some other actions that maybe you suggest 379 00:22:26,490 --> 00:22:29,280 to someone that's pulling themselves out of one mindset 380 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:30,690 into a healthier mindset? 381 00:22:30,690 --> 00:22:33,498 Mike Lee: I got a lot of things that are coming to my mind, 382 00:22:33,556 --> 00:22:36,880 because I think you know, a lot a lot of people go through 383 00:22:36,938 --> 00:22:40,320 number number one like talking about for get get clear on a 384 00:22:40,377 --> 00:22:43,816 vision, get clear on a why. Second thing is to just pay, you 385 00:22:43,874 --> 00:22:47,026 know, try to operate with a beginner's mindset from the 386 00:22:47,084 --> 00:22:50,523 standpoint of try to let go of this identity that you had in 387 00:22:50,580 --> 00:22:53,962 the past and your passion from the past that maybe is maybe 388 00:22:54,020 --> 00:22:57,402 it's just simply no longer possible. Maybe it is an injury, 389 00:22:57,459 --> 00:23:00,956 that career ending injury, just it's just simply not possible 390 00:23:01,013 --> 00:23:04,509 anymore. Probably come from it from a beginner's mindset from 391 00:23:04,567 --> 00:23:07,662 the standpoint of just being really aware of what your 392 00:23:07,719 --> 00:23:10,528 interests are. Maybe it's something that you were 393 00:23:10,586 --> 00:23:14,082 interested in, in high school, but you were just so dedicated 394 00:23:14,140 --> 00:23:17,636 to basketball or to football, or whatever it is that you just 395 00:23:17,694 --> 00:23:21,076 couldn't couldn't pursue it. Right. It was just not you had 396 00:23:21,133 --> 00:23:24,801 to braid one thing for the other pay attention to what just your 397 00:23:24,859 --> 00:23:28,241 interests are, what were you're interested in, what did you 398 00:23:28,298 --> 00:23:31,967 maybe want to do that you had to sacrifice? I don't think I feel 399 00:23:32,024 --> 00:23:35,406 like I'm kind of lucky from the standpoint that that it was 400 00:23:35,463 --> 00:23:39,017 clear for me. For some people it's not, I think one of the big 401 00:23:39,075 --> 00:23:42,113 things to keep in mind is you don't always have to be 402 00:23:42,170 --> 00:23:45,781 operating at this deeper level of purpose. But what you need to 403 00:23:45,839 --> 00:23:49,335 do is you need to operate with a deep level of intention with 404 00:23:49,393 --> 00:23:52,947 everything that you do. And so I think, you know, that takes a 405 00:23:53,004 --> 00:23:56,615 little bit of the pressure off. I think there you know, there's 406 00:23:56,672 --> 00:23:59,825 a lot a lot of people in the self help space leadership 407 00:23:59,882 --> 00:24:03,322 space, everything is like you got to find your purpose, find 408 00:24:03,379 --> 00:24:06,876 your purpose, find your why. Right. And it's like it's not it 409 00:24:06,933 --> 00:24:09,971 comes when it comes and it's really important to give 410 00:24:10,028 --> 00:24:13,582 yourself the permission to not have it figured out yet. I feel 411 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,136 like everything that I've done in my life has been here was a 412 00:24:17,194 --> 00:24:20,404 pain point. I solved this, I figured it out. And now I'm 413 00:24:20,461 --> 00:24:23,786 teaching somebody else to go through the same thing that I 414 00:24:23,843 --> 00:24:27,110 went through. And so look at what are some pain points in 415 00:24:27,168 --> 00:24:30,836 your life? What are some things what have you had to go through? 416 00:24:30,894 --> 00:24:34,505 What are the lessons that you've learned? And now how can I use 417 00:24:34,562 --> 00:24:37,887 this as a way how can I teach others how to go through the 418 00:24:37,944 --> 00:24:41,498 same thing? Because if you went through it, somebody else went 419 00:24:41,556 --> 00:24:45,110 through it and you probably have a unique perspective on on it 420 00:24:45,167 --> 00:24:48,492 that is going to be able to connect with somebody else and 421 00:24:48,549 --> 00:24:52,045 that's going to be fulfilling right art of purpose is finding 422 00:24:52,103 --> 00:24:55,485 what's fulfilling. Well, what's fulfilling is, is you know, 423 00:24:55,542 --> 00:24:58,981 being of service and helping other people out find find At a 424 00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:02,421 pain point that you want to solve, figure out how to how to 425 00:25:02,478 --> 00:25:06,147 go through it yourself and teach others to do it. That's a great 426 00:25:06,204 --> 00:25:09,643 place to start, as you know, give yourself permission to not 427 00:25:09,701 --> 00:25:13,369 have it figured out and to look at some pain points in your life 428 00:25:13,427 --> 00:25:16,923 that you had to solve, and that you've learned something from 429 00:25:16,981 --> 00:25:18,930 and you can teach to other people. 430 00:25:18,930 --> 00:25:20,965 Adam Outland: Love that. We're going to end this with just 431 00:25:21,010 --> 00:25:23,588 spitball questions that are somewhat short answer, just a 432 00:25:23,633 --> 00:25:26,347 piece of technology that you feel you've used. Maybe it's an 433 00:25:26,392 --> 00:25:29,332 app on your phone that's kind of helped in some of these ways. Is 434 00:25:29,377 --> 00:25:30,780 there anything you'd recommend? 435 00:25:31,260 --> 00:25:34,041 Mike Lee: I know, you said, short answer. I mean, up to 436 00:25:34,103 --> 00:25:37,874 number one, A is fine. If you want to dive into talking about 437 00:25:37,936 --> 00:25:41,398 meditation a lot in the beginning, you want to dive into 438 00:25:41,460 --> 00:25:45,169 into meditation, get an app, you have to have a guided audio 439 00:25:45,231 --> 00:25:49,002 experience, especially when you first start out reading about 440 00:25:49,064 --> 00:25:52,711 it. And then trying to practice it or not having a guide is 441 00:25:52,773 --> 00:25:56,235 incredibly frustrating. And you're going to quit because 442 00:25:56,297 --> 00:25:59,388 it's going to be too challenging. So find a guided 443 00:25:59,450 --> 00:26:03,035 app, let's face it, great. That's what I use. Second thing 444 00:26:03,097 --> 00:26:06,744 is I don't talk about this a lot. But there's an app called 445 00:26:06,806 --> 00:26:10,577 Focus timer. It's an app for it's a desktop app. I don't know 446 00:26:10,639 --> 00:26:14,472 if they have it for your phone or not. But it's a desktop apps 447 00:26:14,534 --> 00:26:18,305 for Mac for sure. Maybe for PC. And when you have a task that 448 00:26:18,367 --> 00:26:22,138 you need to complete, we need like some sort of psychological 449 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,785 triggers, right? It's like when I was coaching, basketball 450 00:26:25,847 --> 00:26:29,371 players, every drill that we did, our goal had had to hit 451 00:26:29,433 --> 00:26:33,080 that goal within a certain timeframe, right, and it creates 452 00:26:33,142 --> 00:26:36,480 psychological, it's a psychological trigger to get you 453 00:26:36,542 --> 00:26:40,498 to lock in and get you to focus, right? So a focus timer and set 454 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,084 a time to complete certain tasks. I think it'll help help 455 00:26:44,146 --> 00:26:45,630 you level up your focus. 456 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,106 Adam Outland: Productivity. Yeah. The last question is this 457 00:26:49,176 --> 00:26:53,302 one piece of advice that you would give yourself at the age 458 00:26:53,372 --> 00:26:56,100 of 21. Knowing everything you have now. 459 00:26:56,730 --> 00:26:59,853 Mike Lee: Don't be so hard on yourself. It's all working out 460 00:26:59,915 --> 00:27:03,600 the way it's supposed to. And the view every adversity as a 461 00:27:03,663 --> 00:27:06,974 catalyst for growth, and not look at something that's 462 00:27:07,036 --> 00:27:10,846 happening to you look at it as something that's happening for 463 00:27:10,909 --> 00:27:14,344 you, and lean into that challenge that adversity with a 464 00:27:14,407 --> 00:27:18,279 growth mindset. Because what you learn from that experience is 465 00:27:18,342 --> 00:27:22,090 something that you're going to be able to teach and the more 466 00:27:22,152 --> 00:27:25,463 you become, the more that you can give. And if you're 467 00:27:25,525 --> 00:27:29,148 providing value for people, you're not gonna have to worry 468 00:27:29,211 --> 00:27:30,960 about anything in your life. 469 00:27:31,380 --> 00:27:34,280 Adam Outland: I think those last few sentences were the perfect 470 00:27:34,339 --> 00:27:38,008 way to end a great interview. So thank you for making the time 471 00:27:38,067 --> 00:27:40,080 for this Mike, it was really good. 472 00:27:40,620 --> 00:27:43,140 Mike Lee: Yeah, thanks for having me on. We'll continue the 473 00:27:43,140 --> 00:27:44,190 conversation soon.