[00:00:00] Dennis Stinson: It's Around the House! Yeah, I'd like to tell a story that, you know, when nobody ever plans for their HVAC to go down. So I challenge your listeners as we're sitting around the barbecue this summer to talk to your friends and family about who they use and why they use it. The best referral, the best recommendation is referral.

[00:00:25] Dennis Stinson: So somebody that's had a great experience, that enjoy who they work with, that's the best referral. No, no right or wrong. It's But when you're hot and sweating and you turn over the phone book shows my age, when you go looking for somebody, the best advertiser may not be the best person for you. They could be, but they may not be.

[00:00:43] Dennis Stinson: So get a good referral. I think everybody should know an HVAC person. I think everybody should know a plumber. I think everybody should know an electrician and everybody should know somebody that could work on the outside of their

[00:00:55] Intro: house. When it comes to remodeling and renovating your home, there is a lot to [00:01:00] know, but we've got you covered.

[00:01:02] Intro: NIST. Welcome to

[00:01:03] Eric Goranson: the Around the House show, the next generation of home improvement. Thanks for joining us today. And this is going to be a very important conversation, especially when you're looking at healthy homes, healthy air, energy efficiency, what is things costing you in your house? This could be a big one for you today.

[00:01:24] Eric Goranson: We have got my friend Dennis Denson, Fujitsu General Americas. Welcome back to Around the House show, my friend.

[00:01:31] Dennis Stinson: Thank you. It's always great to be back and amongst friends and looking forward to our great conversation today. So thanks for having me,

[00:01:38] Eric Goranson: man. Thanks. And you guys I'm sure have been a hot topic out there because from people looking at what their energy costs are to heat and cool their home to the inflation reduction act and what that might or might not do for people.

[00:01:51] Eric Goranson: And of course, just. After the pandemic, people worried about what's actually in their air. It's a huge conversation.

[00:01:59] Dennis Stinson: You're exactly [00:02:00] right. And all those topics are what keeps us busy and wakes us up every day. Whether we're talking about the efficiency or preserving a little bit of money for our own wallets and we're making our homes more comfortable and more healthy than yeah, absolutely.

[00:02:13] Dennis Stinson: We're top of those topics and that's what we live for.

[00:02:16] Eric Goranson: And it gets interesting too and there's a lot of debate out there because it seems like there's so much change in the industry right now from the rebates to what the government's getting involved in to the refrigerant changes and you know just how we're building homes healthier now or trying to at least.

[00:02:32] Eric Goranson: There's this is a big can of worms that we're diving into today.

[00:02:35] Dennis Stinson: Yeah, you're exactly right and and you've hit all of the hot buttons. You're always well researched Uh, but you're hitting all the hot buttons whether we look at what the what's happening across the nation with the inflation reduction act When we look to the drive towards energy efficiency when we look towards preserving the efficiency But yet chasing comfort all of those are hot topics and really front and center to the american public today You

[00:02:59] Eric Goranson: [00:03:00] I think we're getting into an interesting time here.

[00:03:02] Eric Goranson: And we'll start out with this one. Cause I think there's a lot of people out there that might have. These are heat pumps that are in that 15 to 20 year old mark, right? They're getting towards the end of their life. Getting a little long in the two, shall we say? And they're trying to get it going. But I think we're getting into this point right now that all of a sudden people are going to be looking at new systems because.

[00:03:21] Eric Goranson: It just, it's going to get to the point, especially with these refrigerant changes, it's not cost effective to do the repairs anymore.

[00:03:28] Dennis Stinson: Yes, you're correct. So, so really when we look at an HVAC system, um, anywhere from 12 to 18 years at the life cycle, based on the quality of material and the, and the system that you bought and really how well you've maintained, it is really much like a car.

[00:03:44] Dennis Stinson: If you maintain it, you get longer life out of it. If you never touch it, then it probably not going to last as long. But. So there's a lot of great considerations when you look at that. There is what fuel am I going to go with? What, what am I looking at to do? Was I comfortable when it works? So all of [00:04:00] those conversations are great conversations.

[00:04:02] Dennis Stinson: And then it's a matter of what part of my system is still reusable. Is my duct work reusable? Do I need to do a separate zoning to be able to get more comfortable in my house? So yeah, a lot of great topics there for a consumer to spend some time and become educated. Methods like this to become more educated in what's available out there, what the options are.

[00:04:22] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And taking an older home and trying to convert it over into a zoned system that had maybe just that standard gas furnace in there, for instance, with no AC can be quite the task because you've got to remake all that ducting. And you've got to resize everything. And it might not even be where you just got to start over with the ducting in there.

[00:04:42] Eric Goranson: It might not even be usable at that point. That ductless might be your smart way to go and the most cost effective.

[00:04:50] Dennis Stinson: Yeah, absolutely. So to remind your listeners a little bit about what it is that we do. So we're classified as a ductless heat pump, but the reality is, is that we put an indoor [00:05:00] unit in the place of distribution.

[00:05:02] Dennis Stinson: So as opposed to having a single unit in the basement or the attic that distributes air through duct work to each individual living space, what we do is we have an outdoor unit like you have today, but then we run piping, not duct work to an indoor unit and each. Point in the house, we have an indoor unit.

[00:05:22] Dennis Stinson: So maybe one in the master bedroom, maybe one in the living room, maybe one in the family room. And what that allows us to do is to be able to put the amount of energy in that space that you're occupying. So we don't have to heat or cool the entire house to make one room comfortable. If all rooms are not being used.

[00:05:41] Dennis Stinson: If you have kids that go off to school or bought more house than what you need, you don't have to heat or cool the entire house to 72 degrees or 68. Those rooms that you're in,

[00:05:52] Eric Goranson: you're able to condition it. Thanks for tuning into Around the House. We've been talking with Dennis Stinson from Fujitsu General about heat [00:06:00] pumps.

[00:06:00] Eric Goranson: Now, let's get back to the program.

[00:06:02] Dennis Stinson: And the other neat part about it is that each room can be a different temperature. So what that means is that if mom and dad like to have, uh, 68 degrees, but the kids are a little chilly and they want to have it 72, Nobody's grabbing blankets or open windows. You simply set the thermostat for the temperature you want in that space.

[00:06:21] Dennis Stinson: And, uh, so great comfort is arises from that and tremendous efficiency arrives from that, because you're not all on or all off, you're just putting into the space, which you need. Makes a lot of sense.

[00:06:32] Eric Goranson: It does. And if you think about the traditional. American two story home, right? Millions of them across the U S where do we put the bedrooms in the summertime?

[00:06:41] Eric Goranson: They're upstairs, right? So we got those hanging up there, master bedrooms up there, probably with the master bath always seems to be the hottest room in the house in the summertime, and if you've got a traditional ducted system, that's one zone, that's the one that you're have to crank the rest of the house down.

[00:06:58] Eric Goranson: Maybe it's 65 degrees [00:07:00] downstairs. But it's 70 upstairs because of the heat. And that's where that really starts to save you some money because you don't have to bring down the entire house temperature just to get that hot. Bedroom cool down to where you can sleep at night.

[00:07:13] Dennis Stinson: Yeah, you're exactly right. We, we Americans like to put our master bedrooms over top of our garages, which typically aren't tremendously insulated and that's where, so you, it, as a listener, exactly what we're talking about.

[00:07:24] Dennis Stinson: When you walk up your steps at nighttime. Does the temperature change when you walk upstairs in the winter time? Is it four or five degrees cooler than downstairs? And in the summertime, is it four or five, six, eight, nine degrees warmer when you ascend those steps at nighttime? And if that's the case, then you are a perfect candidate for some type of zoning in your house.

[00:07:45] Dennis Stinson: So imagine now that you are to your point, you're turning the thermostat down to a temperature much lower than what you really want it to be, to be able to cool that upper room. But you're not cooling the entire house to that temperature. What if you could just [00:08:00] cool the bedroom to the temperature?

[00:08:01] Dennis Stinson: Imagine the energy savings that would come from that, the comfort that would come from that. So big difference in the world.

[00:08:07] Eric Goranson: It is. And I know some people go, Oh, we get snow in the wintertime. I could never use a heat pump. This isn't 1982 anymore. We've got a lot better on efficiency out there.

[00:08:17] Dennis Stinson: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:08:18] Dennis Stinson: There's two terms that, that, that you really want to educate yourself on. One is zoning, and we spent some time talking about that. So not doing the entire insulation envelope, but just where you're living. But the other is inverter technology. And this is, this is something we're seeing more and more of.

[00:08:34] Dennis Stinson: And really what that is, is that's the ability to drive the refrigeration system based on the load that it's seeing. So traditional. Air conditioning and heat pump systems, they're all on or they're all off. What we find with inverter systems, they're more like cruise control for your car. So based on the load on it, it ramps up and slows down.

[00:08:55] Dennis Stinson: So when I zone the house, if I have four zones for the sake of argument, one room's calling, [00:09:00] what I do is I ramp up the compressor and the refrigeration system to be able to satisfy the demand that's coming back from that one room, as opposed to try doing the old house. So now when you think about it, we designed an HVA system for, The worst case scenario, the coldest day of the year, the hottest day of the year.

[00:09:17] Dennis Stinson: So 99 percent of the time you're heating and air conditioning system is oversized. So what if you're heating and air conditioning system could throttle back to match the load. And when you throttle back and match the load, there is tremendous energy savings to be saved with that. And really what that means is comfort in the home and comfort in your wallet is what that really means.

[00:09:38] Eric Goranson: Yeah, it does. And it just really changes things. And the interesting thing is too, is when people change in their homes from, there's so many homes out there and especially up where I'm at here in the Pacific Northwest, but. In in places where maybe it wasn't so hot a few years ago Where we're getting a little hotter as the cities get bigger and all the different stuff we're not getting into the debate of what that is, [00:10:00] but You notice that all of a sudden these homes that had maybe just a simple furnace in there I've been putting the window air conditioners in you get this whole brand new air quality when you actually put a system in That can filter that air and condition it as well.

[00:10:15] Eric Goranson: That's a game changer and it's a game changer on your pocket book as well. Cause there's nothing more expensive than a window air conditioner. It seems.

[00:10:23] Dennis Stinson: Yeah, no doubt about it. We talk about the aesthetics and all that's the American expectation anymore. The expectation is to have a complete. Home comfort system, both heating and air conditioning and the level of indoor air quality too.

[00:10:37] Dennis Stinson: We've, as a first world country, we've certainly got to that point to where the expectation of home comfort and efficiency is much higher than what it was

[00:10:46] Eric Goranson: before. And many times the air inside is a lot cleaner if you've got a good system. Than it is outside, which gets funny when you think about it.

[00:10:53] Dennis Stinson: Yeah, no doubt about it.

[00:10:55] Dennis Stinson: And nowadays is when we take a look at our HVAC system, we got a lot [00:11:00] of, we got a lot of cool, fun things that we can do with our HVAC system now. So we talk about the variety of different controls that are available out there today. So we know the average consumer likes the idea of a thermostat or a remote control on the wall where you do the on, off, up, down, do a night setback.

[00:11:18] Dennis Stinson: Nowadays, we're tying all that into wifi. So if you want to change the temperature in your home or check on your property or cool it down before you get home or warm it up before you get there, you can change the temperature in your Fujitsu HVAC system from anywhere in the world. As long as you have a wifi at the property, uh, we have the ability to tie into some of the.

[00:11:40] Dennis Stinson: Alexa and other Google apps to where there are now voice activated. So if you want to lay on your couch and bark at your air conditioning system to get warmer or colder, you can do that too. So in terms of all the gee whiz technology and the good functionality, certainly HVAC has kept up with the market and led the market in terms of [00:12:00] being able to that home automation system and tie it into your, Your doorbells and your ring cameras and all of your other cool stuff that we like to do around our house.

[00:12:09] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And the one cool thing too, is if you've got that vacation property, maybe it's the family beach house or the family cabin up in the mountains. You can now monitor that 24 seven and go, Hey, we've got some high humidity, or we got something going on up there. I better go check this place out. Cause Something's not right.

[00:12:26] Eric Goranson: And you can just do that by taking a look at the thermostat.

[00:12:29] Dennis Stinson: Yeah, absolutely. Or even more importantly, I got the family loaded up. I'm heading up there. Let me chill it down for me when I get there. So exactly. If it's 82 degrees

[00:12:37] Eric Goranson: and you're not there, who cares? But nobody likes walking in and spending a few hours for everything in there.

[00:12:42] Eric Goranson: That's 82 degrees to get cooled down. Exactly. Yeah. So a lot of good stuff happened in there. A lot of really good stuff. What are you seeing on the technology front? We've talked about kind of efficiency, which is just a really wide brush, heat pumps and stuff, for instance, they keep getting better and can work in colder and colder climates.

[00:12:58] Eric Goranson: What are some of the technologies that you're seeing [00:13:00] out there that are You guys are always on the front of the tip of the spear of that.

[00:13:03] Dennis Stinson: Yeah, we are. So really what we see is performance. So we're seeing very high efficiency as high as 33 seer. Now keep in mind that the baseline efficiency is 14 seer.

[00:13:16] Dennis Stinson: So when we look at our. Some of our equipment is more than twice of what they, what the base rate would be. Um, but as important, we look at performance in cold weather. So there was a time when we thought a hundred percent heating capacity at five degrees outside was good. And then we got to zero, then we got the minus five, then we got the minus 10, then we got the minus 15, and we'll be introducing product that's minus 22.

[00:13:40] Dennis Stinson: So at minus 22 degrees, you'll get a hundred percent performance out of a heat pump. And if you told somebody that in the eighties, they would have thought you were nuts. Uh, but now we look at this inverter technology and look that a heat pump can be, and is a whole home year round. Heating and cooling solution and with inverter [00:14:00] technology, that's really chasing us down there.

[00:14:01] Dennis Stinson: So in terms of technology, we look at great performance to lower ends, but then we're also, you had spoke to the point a couple of times is our industry is looking at yet another change and that's refrigerant change. So we're going to an A2L refrigerant. We, as a manufacturer, are going with R32. And really what that is, Eric, that is a move in a couple of different directions.

[00:14:24] Dennis Stinson: That's a refrigerant that is much more environmentally friendly, a refrigerant that is much more efficient. So this is the next step that the industry is taking. We've done this a couple of times now. But now moving in this to this A2L refrigerant that will start in the beginning of 2025 is when you'll start seeing that product coming in and you'll see that this is in terms of global warming potential to be much more friendlier for the environment for when we have leaks or what have you in a system, much, much more friendly to the environment.

[00:14:56] Dennis Stinson: But also from that, we also gain higher efficiency. [00:15:00] So I can either be more efficient or I can make my equipment smaller. So we'll see some big changes in the industry coming forward. Big changes in the industry coming forward.

[00:15:08] Eric Goranson: Yeah, that's cool. And then of course it always changes things up when we do refrigerant changes, right?

[00:15:13] Eric Goranson: Because everybody has to go back and relook at things because that's the vehicle that's transferring the heat and the cool from inside to outside between that compressor and the condenser. Yeah. Yeah, and

[00:15:24] Dennis Stinson: so it's a little bit different. It does change the physical construction of the unit that changes the how we handle the refrigerant.

[00:15:31] Dennis Stinson: This is an evolution. This is something that we all do on a timeline and there's another one set down the road that we'll get to as well. This is how products improve and this is how we keep moving forward, which to that point. When you look at the refrigerant that we're using today, R410A, there's plenty of product that's available.

[00:15:49] Dennis Stinson: The rebates are strong in the marketplace. If I was a consumer, I think I'd be looking long and hard at if I'm ready for an HVAC system. There's plenty of [00:16:00] rebates out there today. You're looking at an R410A product. I wouldn't hesitate to replace the system today. I wouldn't go down the avenue that I'm going to wait until the new stuff comes out.

[00:16:09] Dennis Stinson: The stuff that you have today is outstanding. for listening. Then the stuff that's coming in is going to be outstanding as well. But if I was a consumer debating about it, I wouldn't wait for a new product. I would go ahead and do it now.

[00:16:22] Eric Goranson: I'll double up on that and say, I would definitely, this is the season now to do it because the inflation reduction act, what is that early next year we're going to see, or maybe even this year in some States, because that big rebate that they've been talking about, boy, there's a lot of potholes in that, which is tough to navigate depending on where you live and.

[00:16:42] Eric Goranson: I think the rebates now are going to be probably for most people as good as you're going to get.

[00:16:47] Dennis Stinson: Yeah. So the inflation reduction act will eventually be a good piece of legislation. There was a couple of parts to that. The first part was to 25 C, which makes a lot of sense. And this is really a continuation of the [00:17:00] federal tax credit that we've had for Probably eight or 10 years across a variety of administrations if we want to go there.

[00:17:06] Dennis Stinson: But what that really allows us to do is to take a tax deduction. And the reason I say that this is a good piece of legislation is because it's something we already know. It's something that the market knows, the contractors know how to administer it, manufacturers know how to talk about it. We've tested to it and it's easy.

[00:17:23] Dennis Stinson: It is. It's easy. It qualifies, you take the deduction and you're there. The Inflation Reduction Act is a different animal because that was pushed down to the states for them to administer. And it's understandable that there's varying levels of readiness at the state level to be able to do this. There is conversations about income, so those with, the argument is those with greater need would receive more than those with not as much need.

[00:17:49] Dennis Stinson: But then that gets you into the whole avenue of how do you verify income and how do you do that at the state level? And there's a lot of moving parts to that. Uh, they just took the first round of [00:18:00] responsibility there. Most states have expressed their intent to be there. It looks like New York state may very well be the first one to actually roll it out.

[00:18:08] Dennis Stinson: But to your point, you're spot on again, extremely well read. Probably early 25, second quarter of 25 is when you'll see this coming in more of a robust fashion. And that's incentives for an HVAC system. That's incentives for an electrical upgrade. There's a lot going on there. But. To your point, I wouldn't hesitate today.

[00:18:27] Dennis Stinson: I think they're as strong today, and I don't think you'll have buyer's remorse.

[00:18:31] Eric Goranson: Yeah, and I think one of the biggest issues, I started to dive into as best I could, because it's not that easy. It's a rabbit hole that's tiny to sneak down to try to figure out what's going on with it. But talking to my friends that are HVAC professionals, At least.

[00:18:44] Eric Goranson: And I don't know if that's a state thing or a federal thing, but the ones that I'm talking to my local area are saying for that inflation reduction act for that big one, everybody on that job site has to be prevailing wage and all the people I've talked to in the major HVAC people. Aren't going to be paying their people, [00:19:00] prevailing wage.

[00:19:00] Eric Goranson: You're going to have a hard time finding some people to do that at what I would call the government wage of doing that. If you were working on a big commercial project, for instance,

[00:19:09] Dennis Stinson: yeah. And that can be driven by state. So the state can set what the rules are and the parameters are in it. The federal government has set.

[00:19:16] Dennis Stinson: The basic income levels and the reward coming back and the qualifying equipment, uh, states can add in whatever necessities they feel are there to be able to do it. So, and that's so, so to some degree you embrace it and say it gives the locals the ability to address what's important in their market. Um, From a manufacturing standpoint, you say I got 50 different programs out there now.

[00:19:39] Dennis Stinson: So that's

[00:19:40] Eric Goranson: the part that I'm looking at going. It's cool that the states are doing it so they can get it in there, dialed in for their area, totally get it. But it's going to be a nightmare for people like you that are going, okay, what's. You got a smorgasbord of things going on there.

[00:19:53] Dennis Stinson: Yeah. As a manufacturer, we invest in some high quality people and high quality partners that this is what they do all day, that they [00:20:00] look at the federal programs, they make sure that we have the products to qualify for it.

[00:20:04] Dennis Stinson: We engineer products to qualify for the rebates and then our outstanding marketing team makes sure that we break that down into usable soundbites to get it out. But yeah, some are more complicated than others. I'm glad we're talking about. Incentives for home HVAC really are not just because I sell it, because that is some of the biggest expense for consumers.

[00:20:25] Dennis Stinson: We tend to think about things like cars and vacations and stuff like that, but when you think of what you pay on your home utilities month after month after year, a decent investment on that will really give you better usable income over the life of your home. So it's a great investment and I'm glad as a nation we're investing in that.

[00:20:47] Eric Goranson: Absolutely, and having something that's reliable is key too, because there's nothing worse than being in the middle of a hot streak or a cold streak or wherever you're listening to us today. That machine cuts down because you forgot to do your maintenance [00:21:00] on it and having something that's built well and installed correctly and maintained, those are the three legs to that stool to make sure that you got that system going in there right.

[00:21:11] Dennis Stinson: And you've heard me talk before, um, uh, we build our company based off of just great partnership and that goes from ourselves to our distributors and as importantly, not most importantly is the installing contractor. So just that pride and workmanship and having the assessment done upfront, making sure the right equipment is applied and installed correctly.

[00:21:31] Dennis Stinson: The most important piece of that entire equation is selecting the right contractor to put it in with the knowledge, know how to do it. So. Can't underestimate the value of finding the right contractor from day one.

[00:21:44] Eric Goranson: I'll add to that Dennis because I always say that the you can go buy the best quality system that money can buy And money's no object if you didn't do that with the installer as well.

[00:21:55] Eric Goranson: You're only halfway there

[00:21:57] Dennis Stinson: Yeah, I'd like to tell a story that, you know, when [00:22:00] if nobody ever plans for their HVAC to go down. So, I challenge your listeners as we're sitting around the barbecue this summer to talk to your friends and family about who they use and why they use them. The best referral, the best recommendation is a referral.

[00:22:16] Dennis Stinson: So somebody that's had a great experience that enjoy who they work with, that's the best referral, not no right or wrong, but when you're hot and sweating and you turn over the phone book shows my age. When you go looking for somebody, the best advertiser may not be the best person for you. They could be, but they may not be.

[00:22:35] Dennis Stinson: So get a good referral. I think everybody should know an HVAC person. I think everybody should know a plumber. I think everybody should know an electrician and everybody should know somebody that can work on the outside of their house, whether it's roofing, siding, downspouts, don't wait till when it's emergency, get that Rolodex going early on and create a relationship with somebody so that, so you got a good person to call when something goes wrong.

[00:22:57] Dennis Stinson: Cause it will.

[00:22:58] Eric Goranson: Yeah, it [00:23:00] will guaranteed because these systems are not foolproof and they have a limited lifespan, like everything else you put in your house. So when you go buy a new washer and dryer, it's great handful of years. If you haven't done the service, you haven't taken care of it. Things start going sideways and that's like your car or anything else that you buy, that's a major purchase, you got to maintain it.

[00:23:19] Dennis Stinson: Yeah. And much like a car, by having it maintained gives you a, gives you a small, inexpensive exposure to the type of company that you're working with and the personalities that you're working with, and really whether that's somebody who would want to do business long term. So having somebody come in and service your HVAC, much like servicing your car, gives you a really good feel for how they do business and just reaffirms that these are the type of people I want to do business with.

[00:23:44] Eric Goranson: And there's a lot of people out there. So if you have a brand new system and like one of your systems installed by your local HVAC professional, they come in and do it, have that conversation if they don't have it with you to make sure and take a look at that service contract. Sometimes those service contracts are [00:24:00] so brainless.

[00:24:00] Eric Goranson: They call you and go, Hey, it's that time of year. It's like your doctor trying to get you in the doctor. Hey, it's checkup time again. And that way, many times, if you do have some kind of an issue that something happens down the road. You're already in this system. They might not even charge you for that weekend rate.

[00:24:16] Eric Goranson: They're going to come out and take care of it for you. And, and they're familiar with it. So it's the best of both worlds by just setting it up and knocking it out of the park. So that way you don't have to go chasing somebody down with that phone book. When things go bad.

[00:24:29] Dennis Stinson: Yep, absolutely. Couldn't set up better myself.

[00:24:31] Eric Goranson: So what do you suggest for people out there? There's so many different types of systems out there. What's the best way for somebody to get started to go, okay, I know my system's 20 something years old. I got to do something different. What do you recommend? I know you're a manufacturer, but what do you recommend out there for people to do their research?

[00:24:50] Eric Goranson: So there's

[00:24:51] Dennis Stinson: two things that I would recommend. Number one is become familiar with what's out there. So do a little reading up on, I would recommend people go to our website, Fujitsu, [00:25:00] general America. com. You're able to look at equipment. You're able to look at styles. You're able to look at good, better, best in terms of performance and get a feel for the type of product that's out there.

[00:25:10] Dennis Stinson: Style, size, capacity, efficiency, get a feel for it. While you're on our website, go to a section that says eco rebates and plug in your zip code. And if you don't plug in your zip code, it'll auto locate you a little creepy, but it'll figure out where you are and it'll come

[00:25:26] Eric Goranson: back and

[00:25:30] Dennis Stinson: tell you all the rebates that are available, where you're standing. So it'll tell you every piece of equipment that qualifies. So now you can look at it and say, if I go with this piece of equipment to rebates this, but if I go with this, it's that now I know to ask somebody, does that make sense to do it?

[00:25:47] Dennis Stinson: Once you are well researched. Then call in a contractor. You can use our dealer locator, or again, if you have a recommendation from a friend, I would start there. And I would have the conversation with them that this is my [00:26:00] system. I'm gas, I'm oil, I'm heat pump. I'm this, I'm that, I'm solar, whatever I am.

[00:26:05] Dennis Stinson: And 15 years into it, I want to do something before it gives up the ghost. How do I do that? This room is warm. This room is cold. I've never really been comfortable here. I'd like to have wifi. I'd like to be able to control it from somewhere. Be honest with them and let them come back and measure your house and do a heat load and heat loss on it and decide what size system you need.

[00:26:27] Dennis Stinson: Look at what you currently have. Is anything reusable or are you just better off doing something different and let them lay it out at the end of the day, become well educated and then seek advice from at least one contractor on how they would do it and what they would do it. Price is important.

[00:26:46] Dennis Stinson: Knowledge, experience, good referrals is much more important than a good price.

[00:26:52] Eric Goranson: Amen. Amen. I want to talk a little bit about the innovations that we've seen with these units over the years inside. And I'm just [00:27:00] talking the pretty stuff, right? A lot of people still to this day think that a Sir Mini Split, whatever they want to call it, Looks like what's in the, underneath the motel window from the Fleabag motel.

[00:27:11] Eric Goranson: They had the night before when they're on vacation. That's not the case anymore. There's a lot of units out there that look really nice. That could fit into your decor in your house.

[00:27:21] Dennis Stinson: Yeah, you're exactly right. So we're most known for the wall mount units. When people think of ductless, they think of mini splits.

[00:27:28] Dennis Stinson: It's the same interchangeable term. And most people think of that. Horizontal unit that hangs on a wall, the rectangular unit, if you will, that hangs on a wall, and that is by far most popular because they work really well and there they go in well and they perform well, but we also have one that's more of a console so that it would look more like a radiator and that would go on low on the wall and provides great heat air comes in the middle, comes out the top and the bottom and it's great.

[00:27:56] Dennis Stinson: We also have units that are ceiling cassettes that recess [00:28:00] up into a ceiling and it doesn't have to be a grid pattern. It can be cut into drywall to be able to do it. And that can be a four way throw. So it brings the air in, treats it, and then distributes it out through room, great way to do it, gets that stuff off the wall.

[00:28:14] Dennis Stinson: But then we also have ducted units. So I'm the ducted ductless product. So I can take a mini air handler and I can stick that in Matic or a ceiling or vertically in a wall cavity, and I can return the air from that room, treat it, and then put it back in the room. Again, giving me that zoning capability, but also if you're.

[00:28:34] Dennis Stinson: If you say I'm more traditional, I like grills and registers and diffusers. We can make it look exactly like that so that you don't see anything hanging on a wall to be able to do that. And as most installations have a combination of all of them. So they get a multi zone system that you can hook multiple indoor units to.

[00:28:53] Dennis Stinson: They run small diameter tubing to each indoor unit. And so maybe in the master bedroom, you have a ceiling cassette. [00:29:00] Maybe in the. Hall bedrooms where the kids sleep. You've got one air handler and you zone all the kids bedrooms together. Maybe downstairs where you watch the watch the baseball game. Then you've got a wall mount unit.

[00:29:13] Dennis Stinson: Cause it'll give you a good throw down there and cover the entire room. And maybe down out in the sunroom, because you've got a wall of windows, you use that neat high floor mount unit to be able to do it. So there's no reason that you have to do one system all the way through. You can mix and match and really hit your decor and hit your comfort and mix it all up.

[00:29:32] Dennis Stinson: So

[00:29:32] Eric Goranson: yeah. It's great. And the thing I like too is that these units are so quiet nowadays. I remember as a kid being out back and having my mom yell out across the backyard because of the unit that was outside, and it sounded like an airplane taking off because it was so noisy just on the outside unit.

[00:29:50] Eric Goranson: And they have really become quiet with this inverter technology.

[00:29:55] Dennis Stinson: Yeah, you're exactly right. So most of our units, really all of our units are horizontal draw through [00:30:00] now. So there's very few updraft units. Sometimes we think of air conditioning system right back to that flea bag motel that you talked about, where we have that unit that's under the window.

[00:30:09] Dennis Stinson: When it kicks on, it wakes you up when it you finally get back to sleep when it turns off. And and what you find with inverter technology, both indoor units and outdoor units, you don't hear the rush of air. You feel the tempered air coming out, but you don't hear the rush of air coming out when the unit turns on.

[00:30:25] Dennis Stinson: The lights don't dim in the house because it took a big after all to start that compressor outside. And when you're outside, you're not yelling to each other halfway down the driveway because the unit came on and sounds like a Learjet taking off. Exactly. And if you're one that. Cares what your neighbors think.

[00:30:41] Dennis Stinson: This is a friendly unit to be able to do that because you're not going to be that obnoxious guy. You can annoy them in other ways, but it won't be your air conditioner.

[00:30:48] Eric Goranson: And the cool thing is you could put them in multiple locations and there's a lot more options. Sometimes in, in town homes where there's three or four feet in between units or things like that, [00:31:00] you can really, with a traditional AC unit, run into a problem or where am I going to put this?

[00:31:04] Eric Goranson: And I don't want it in my front yard, but. Where's this going to go? And there's a lot of flexibility with these systems on where you can mount them.

[00:31:12] Dennis Stinson: Yeah, absolutely. Just those zero lot clearances that we run into that a lot out on the West coast and in the East coast where I'm sitting now, we look at multi story apartment buildings and we can stick them on the balconies.

[00:31:24] Dennis Stinson: We can have wall mount brackets and stick them outside so we can go vertical really quick with them. So because they're smaller and compact and lightweight. We can take them up in elevators. We can get them through 30 inch doors. So just the ease of actually getting them installed along with the quietness is a big opportunity.

[00:31:44] Eric Goranson: That's awesome. One question I had with these is that when they first came out, air filtration wasn't the best because it was almost like a dryer lint filter on the early ones. It seems that's come a long ways these days as far as getting clean air moving around the house. Yeah, so it's really

[00:31:59] Dennis Stinson: a matter of what [00:32:00] style you pick.

[00:32:01] Dennis Stinson: So some are going to be more conducive to air treatment than others. So when you think about indoor air quality, you normally think of a couple of methods. You look at dilution, so that's bringing fresh air in from the outside. You look at sterilization, normally with some type of ozonator or UV light.

[00:32:18] Dennis Stinson: And then you look at some level of filtration, and that can be HEPA or MERV or whatever it is that you're choosing to do that. A traditional wall mount product is difficult to do that. You're buying that for space, but when you look at the ducted units or you look at the ceiling cassette units, now you have the ability to bring in that fresh air.

[00:32:37] Dennis Stinson: You have the ability to add an ozonator or UV light to it. You have the ability to do a level of filtration on that on top of it. So again, that's that conversation with the contractor, right? That When the contractor comes in, you say, you know what, I've got some allergies or my kids have got some allergies, or we live in an area with high, with high pollen and that gets rough on my system here, [00:33:00] I'd like to be able to have something that knocks that down a couple of rungs before it comes in my house.

[00:33:05] Dennis Stinson: And so certainly the right, picking the right system with the right contractor and adding the right. Indoor air quality to it. You can really address that. Make it very comfortable.

[00:33:14] Eric Goranson: Yeah. I made a mistake on putting an ozonator system on my house because my half Sicilian wife, I had during COVID, I put it in there right at the beginning of that, I put it in there and she couldn't bake in the house because it was killing the yeast before it would rise.

[00:33:29] Eric Goranson: So I had to unplug mine in the house so I could actually make sure that it was She could cook . So yeah. So that was my bad. I got blamed for that one for a little bit. That was my learning experience.

[00:33:41] Dennis Stinson: You had, you shoulda put a, shoulda have put a timer on it so it turned off at three o'clock so she could bake and then turn it back on

[00:33:47] Eric Goranson: at night.

[00:33:47] Eric Goranson: Right, exactly. I was like, oops, my bad. So it, that was one of those things that I learned. I'm like, maybe that's working just a little bit too good in my house. You're exactly

[00:33:56] Dennis Stinson: taken care

[00:33:57] Eric Goranson: of. Sure. Absolutely. But didn't catch anything in the [00:34:00] house. So that was good. So it did do the job. That's for sure. So one more thing before we go, and we're going to be running out of time here pretty soon, but I'm seeing technology getting better and better.

[00:34:12] Eric Goranson: And I, it seems like right now we're at that brand new part of the innovation. We talked a little bit about it earlier, but it seems like over the last couple of years, we've just made this new step. Into really getting that indoor comfort and having that efficiency balance out with it.

[00:34:27] Dennis Stinson: Yes. Um, and that is the big step.

[00:34:30] Dennis Stinson: The big step is to drive the efficiency for the return on investment. Right. But it doesn't make sense to save money. If you're not comfortable, it doesn't make any sense to do that. And it doesn't make sense to invest in a more efficient piece of equipment if you're still uncomfortable. So we like to say that all that do is make you uncomfortable more, more efficiently.

[00:34:49] Dennis Stinson: So being able to mix that together and to get there, and that's really where our industry driving, I'm proud to be part of an industry. That's really focused on that. Um, I like what we do. I like [00:35:00] what we do at Fujitsu, but I like what we do as an industry that, um, we're continuing to push the envelopes of possibility and bring great new products to the marketplace and they're reliable.

[00:35:10] Dennis Stinson: They hold up to the test of time. They're well made products. And it's something that we're proud to sell. And certainly as a consumer, you get some good use out of it. You get great return of investment. And if it all works right, you never know it's there.

[00:35:23] Eric Goranson: And that's amazing. And I want to, here's a little bit of a softball question to you, but it's something I want to talk about quality of materials you guys have been known for building quality products out there.

[00:35:34] Eric Goranson: And it's almost to the point now online that you can jump on Amazon and have a system delivered tomorrow of some name that you've never heard of. It's almost that ridiculous. It's not worth the money guys to go out and buy something cheap that you're going to spend more to fix when nobody shows up for the warranty.

[00:35:52] Dennis Stinson: Yeah. So there's a difference between metal and screws and clips and plastic. There is a longevity of when things last. [00:36:00] So, and the eight old age old adage that we've heard forever is that you do get what you pay for. So when you take a look at a piece of equipment, I always look at the good reputation of a company that's out in the market.

[00:36:12] Dennis Stinson: I look at the warranty that they put on it. I like to read reviews on how people do it. And then frankly, I like to talk to people that do it every single day. And that is HVAC contractors. Take the curse off of this refrigerant. HVAC is not a do it yourself project that requires a licensed professional to do it right.

[00:36:32] Dennis Stinson: You have to have an EPA certification for dealing with the refrigerant, and there's a lot of rules of thermal dynamics that you just don't pick up with the YouTube video. This is a skill, this is a craft, and really, if you're going to invest the money in a good contractor and a good piece of equipment, and it'll reward you time and time again, but buying something online and sticking in your house, you're probably not going to be satisfied, or I'm pretty sure your spouse is not going to be satisfied, which is more important.[00:37:00]

[00:37:00] Eric Goranson: And half the mistakes seem to happen just in the sizing part of that, where someone has not, did I do my system as a DIY project? No, I had someone come in and do it for me because there's a lot of heat load calculations to where you're going to install stuff to know on what energy code is and building code.

[00:37:17] Eric Goranson: It's not a great DIY project. I wish it was, but it's science and you got to know that stuff to dive in. Absolutely. Absolutely. So Dennis, how do people track down if they want to start working with you guys and go, okay, I gotta, I want to take a look at Fujitsu for my house. What's the best way for people to do that?

[00:37:35] Dennis Stinson: Thanks for that. So the best way to do it is to go to our website, Fujitsu general account. And that gives you the ability to walk through the product and take a look at it. It gives you the ability to use that eco rebate and find out what incentives might be available to you. And then you go to our dealer locator and based on where you are, there's a chat feature.

[00:37:55] Dennis Stinson: So if you want to do it manually, if you want somebody to direct you there, that's all available there, [00:38:00] but that'll connect you with a contractor that's been trained by us. And we have a couple of different types of contractors are on there and it's based on experience and training. Nobody is on our website that has not been through a training course with us on proper installation and setup and startup to go with it.

[00:38:18] Dennis Stinson: So, so I would recommend that if you're interested in learning more about Fujitsu, go to our website. You can see product, you can see incentives, and as importantly, you can get connected with a high quality contractor to make sure it all comes together. Well,

[00:38:31] Eric Goranson: perfect. Is there anything we missed today, Dennis?

[00:38:35] Dennis Stinson: Eric, when you and I get together, I can't believe that we miss a whole lot. The conversation is always good. It's informative. And at this point, I think we covered it all. So, so thanks again for the invitation. It's always a pleasure to sit and talk various things with you on your show. And thank you.

[00:38:51] Dennis Stinson: Thank you for

[00:38:51] Eric Goranson: the invitation. Once again, thanks brother for coming on again. All right, everybody. If you miss this on the radio, go back and catch the podcast on [00:39:00] your favorite podcast player. I'm Eric G, and you've been listening to Around the House