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Marvin:
Hey folks it's marvin cash the host of the articulate fly we're back with another

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Marvin:
casting angles with mac brown mac how are you i'm.

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Mac:
Doing great how are you doing marvin.

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Marvin:
As always i'm just trying to stay out of trouble mac brown well.

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Mac:
That's a good thing.

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Marvin:
Yeah i think so you know and it's interesting you know you just finished up

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Marvin:
a uh an advanced casting school you want to

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Marvin:
kind of tell folks a little bit about how that went and then we've got a topic

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Marvin:
that i kind of came up with while i was doing some casting practice this weekend yeah.

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Mac:
It went really good the first day goes over a lot of just how how loops work

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Mac:
and what kind of like what the goals,

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Mac:
so they can go away you know to look at what they're trying to basically learning

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Mac:
to diagnose and learn how to tweak and change what they're trying to do as far

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Mac:
as the loop shapes that they're throwing.

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Mac:
And we talked a lot about that and go over the fundamentals of basic movement.

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Mac:
And a lot of that, that first half of the first day was basically covering that.

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Mac:
And that's, that's similar to what, you know, you and I were talking earlier

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Mac:
about from what you did practicing the other day.

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Mac:
So it might be a good, a good topic just addressing movement.

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Marvin:
Yeah. And so, you know, just, you know, for, for folks, you know,

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Marvin:
the idea that came to me, I was doing some casting practice this weekend and

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Marvin:
had the cones out and, you know, had cones at, you know, 30, 45, 60, 90 feet.

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Marvin:
And, you know, I was playing around really, you know, working on kind of the

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Marvin:
full arm casting style that we did our class on earlier.

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Marvin:
You know, gosh, it was probably, gosh, maybe March. And trying to kind of think

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Marvin:
through, you know, obviously at short distances, you need a shorter stroke.

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Marvin:
You don't need as much power and kind of trying to work through kind of the

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Marvin:
mechanics of you know how far can you go with the wrist how far can you go with

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Marvin:
the arm and how far can you go kind of with the shoulder right yeah.

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Mac:
Yeah i mean it's like then the the use of how do we coordinate all three of

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Mac:
those to complement one another's most i guess the most efficiency would be the best word to say.

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Mac:
And that way, when they all fire at the right time period,

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Mac:
you know, and using the whole arm, of course, and it's a whole lot easier to

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Mac:
just pick it up and being in a very relaxed fashion, just pick it up,

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Mac:
stop it at the right place, have the right rate of movement, and then let it go.

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Mac:
That right there alone is so efficient that it goes further than most people

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Mac:
ever cast, just doing it like super slow motion.

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Mac:
And then just imagine if you start to put a little bit of effort with it then

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Mac:
it just gets better so yeah I mean it's a lot of this when you first said that,

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Mac:
earlier today you know I thought about it when I was,

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Mac:
on a hike Marvin and like when it all started like in.

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Mac:
But 1858, they figured all this out in the first year. So this isn't like some

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Mac:
new rocket science in 2024.

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Mac:
You know what I mean? You're not talking. I mean, in England,

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Mac:
a lot of the chalkstone strings were so small that a lot of them did cast with just all wrists.

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Mac:
And then they started to use tricep and bicep and just pivoting from the elbow,

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Mac:
like keep the good book under your elbow at your side.

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Mac:
And then they learned real quick that about 1860,

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Mac:
with George Selvin Marriott, he basically trained

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Mac:
the world and all the tournament scenes for even america

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Mac:
i mean about the full-on casting style so i would

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Mac:
i would say all this has been around since 1860 but the

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Mac:
top casters out there have all done it since 1860 the same way so they figured

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Mac:
out full-on was a lot more efficient so so the elbow could move up and down

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Mac:
with the full arm and still yield what you you want without the con of saying,

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Mac:
now you want to go 40 feet or 60 feet,

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Mac:
that it can keep on going in range and go further and further, plus it can go short.

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Mac:
And I guess the nemesis to that would be, say, look at somebody that casts a

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Mac:
lot with a lot of wrist and keeps the arm very stationary,

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Mac:
and they'll find out real quick that they can go 20, 30 feet,

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Mac:
pivoting up of a single joint in their body, and then it seems a struggle to go 40.

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Mac:
And so the cons become much greater.

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Mac:
At a quicker rate once they isolate a small range of motion from the wrist.

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Marvin:
Yeah. And so it's almost kind of, it's almost like it's backwards from the way

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Marvin:
most of us kind of learned to cast. Right.

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Marvin:
And so, you know, I think we were talking before we started recording,

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Marvin:
you're really talking about full arm that, you know, it's going to,

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Marvin:
what it's going to do is you're going to actually, at close distances,

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Marvin:
you can really just use the arm and regulate, you know, how,

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Marvin:
how much the elbow moves.

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Marvin:
And you don't even really need kind of the, you know, call it whatever you want

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Marvin:
to, the squeeze of the rod at the end or pulling with your pinky because you

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Marvin:
don't need that power until you need to cast at a greater distance.

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Mac:
That's right. Right. And so, yeah, so if the elbow rises and falls,

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Mac:
you know, with the full-on casting, say with the casting accuracy,

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Mac:
say 20, 30 feet, or a fish rises and you just want to pick it up and reposition

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Mac:
it and throw it right in the ring where that fish rose,

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Mac:
the elbow might just rise and fall for that range.

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Mac:
Of course, a shorter stroke, going to have a shorter pause, going to have a

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Mac:
shorter arc. All those things are going to take life.

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Mac:
Shorter with everything because we're going short, right? The pause is going to be less time.

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Mac:
So the elbow might rise and fall two inches, but the elbow still moved up and down two inches.

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Mac:
Then you take that same example and say it goes from 30 to 50.

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Mac:
Pause is going to be a little longer. The elbow is going to move four to five inches now up and down.

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Mac:
The arc is going to be a little bit bigger because the elbow is moving more up and down.

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Mac:
So, I mean, that's kind of how it works. It's just like, let's say now you want to go to seven.

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Mac:
Same thing. Now the elbow might come all the way up to the Statue of Liberty,

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Mac:
pose, like holding the torch in the harbor.

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Mac:
Then when you come all the way back down, the elbow comes all the way back to

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Mac:
the side before you pull the pinky.

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Mac:
That's the most efficient way to launch something then at a bigger distance.

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Mac:
Does that kind of make sense? So the elbow is a variable.

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Mac:
The elbow moving up and down with this full arm casting is all variable.

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Mac:
I mean, it's still going up. It's just a whole lot easier to...

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Mac:
I mean, I've seen a lot of this out here the last couple of weeks.

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Mac:
I mean, you'll see people, the elbows kind of sitting in against the side,

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Mac:
and it's just all bicep, tricep. And if you think about it, just do it slow

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Mac:
motion for those listening.

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Mac:
Just grab a rod, move it with your elbow pinned against your side,

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Mac:
and you'll see that the whole tip is just drawing this big circular radius.

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Mac:
And then just imagine what kind of loops that's going to look like.

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Mac:
It's going to be a big circular fly leg.

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Mac:
You know, and that's exactly the non-efficiency that we don't want to have in our casting.

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Mac:
So I think people, it's kind of self-intuitive once you see that it's coming

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Mac:
around a big arc, and you're probably going to, chances are you're going to

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Mac:
have a big radius, a rainbow kind of loop going back and forth.

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Mac:
And of course, over here in Bryson for the last few weeks, most of what I've

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Mac:
seen is that, but then again, does it get the job done?

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Mac:
Because a lot of it's, you know, short repositioning of an indicator,

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Mac:
a bobber being thrown over the side of the boat 10 feet. So does it matter?

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Mac:
Probably not. so i guess we also got to clarify

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Mac:
that with what we're talking about is is more about

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Mac:
saying what if we want to come down through here like what we did last night

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Mac:
and fish dries and wets at 50 60 foot of range then that's where it's going

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Mac:
to matter so if we're talking about just bobber something then really all this

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Mac:
stuff is a mute point i guess is what i'm saying if you're throwing 10 feet

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Mac:
with an indicator and a big bobber then really doesn't matter how you do it

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Mac:
because it's not that far right yeah.

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Marvin:
But it'll also matter right if you're throwing you you know,

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Marvin:
streamers at distance, right, and trying to cover water.

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Marvin:
But, you know, one of the interesting things, you know, before we started recording,

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Marvin:
Mac, was we were also talking about the importance of tempo.

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Mac:
Oh, yeah. Everybody's got too fast a tempo. Why is that, Marvin?

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Mac:
Why does everybody want to be in such a hurry?

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Mac:
I mean, about every lesson I've ever given, everybody's in a hurry. It's kind of like golf.

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Mac:
If you see a golfer and when they're taking a new lesson, brand new golfer,

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Mac:
they want to take the club back real fast.

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Mac:
What are we going to gain by moving the club and the tempo really fast-paced?

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Mac:
That's the biggest mistake in golf as well.

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Mac:
It's the biggest mistake in casting. Everybody's off to a race.

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Mac:
And one thing that's a very good drill, if people get out and practice in the

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Mac:
yard at all with their casting is to really be cautious of trying to learn to be slow,

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Mac:
like to try to really slow it down where the tempo can be relaxed.

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Mac:
And I think it would shock a lot of the listeners to see how slow they can go

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Mac:
and achieve really a pretty good distance, you know, with moving really slow.

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Marvin:
Yeah, I think it's interesting. It reminds me of a casting kind of tip I got from Mark Huber.

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Marvin:
I think it was actually at the Virginia Fly Fishing and Wine Festival and we

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Marvin:
just had maybe 15 or 20 minutes at the hotel,

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Marvin:
one day kind of before or after the show and you know his suggestion to deal

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Marvin:
with the power issue was to keep casting and keep get a fixed length of line

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Marvin:
right so you're not adjusting for that and then to just basically keep casting,

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Marvin:
until your loop collapses right and then you know you back up just a little bit,

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Marvin:
that that's all the energy you need, right?

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Marvin:
Because to your point, a lot of people cast too fast and it sounds like you're

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Marvin:
listening to Zorro, right, with a sword.

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Marvin:
And that's all wasted energy.

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Mac:
Yeah.

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Marvin:
Right? Oh, yeah.

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Mac:
That's what people don't realize. They think going fast means going far.

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Mac:
And I think a lot of that's also some...

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Mac:
We'll just have to say that even though this is on full arm casting is that,

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Mac:
when you have a loop of line that's unrolling it's one

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Mac:
of the few things in life that people will ever do that actually accelerate so

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Mac:
if they like you know baseball and guns and golf and all these things those

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Mac:
are all projectile motion things to where they actually decelerate so to hit

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Mac:
a golf ball further what do you got to do you got to swing faster but in a cast

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Mac:
it's not it it's It's not really that way as much because of the way the loop works.

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Mac:
There's a lot of mechanics and physics to how a loop unrolls.

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Mac:
In other words, a way to say it, though, to make it really easily understood,

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Mac:
is the fly is always going faster.

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Mac:
As soon as you start the cast, the fly accelerates. It's going faster all throughout

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Mac:
the cast until the line straightens in the front.

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Mac:
And because of that fact, you

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Mac:
can go way, way slower than what most people think when they take this up.

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Mac:
And once they get to that point where they understand that it can go that slow

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Mac:
they're probably well on their way at becoming fairly elite caster at that point

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Mac:
but why not start there at the beginning instead of going too fast the tempo

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Mac:
would make it a lot make life a lot easier people yeah.

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Marvin:
And i think you know another kind of aha moment right it's when you realize

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Marvin:
that you know closing that three or four inch gap between the you know the bottom

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Marvin:
of your wrist and in the butt of your fly rod, and you do that.

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Marvin:
And, you know, just look at it sideways and see how much tip movement you get

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Marvin:
from that. And that just happens in an instant of a second.

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Marvin:
And you don't need to power it. You just literally just need to squeeze it.

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Marvin:
And, you know, if you do the math, that's a phenomenal amount of tip travel,

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Marvin:
but it also equates to a tremendous amount of acceleration.

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Mac:
That's right. Yeah, that's what launches the, I mean, gets the fly leg and everything,

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Mac:
all the system moving to form, you know, to form the loop.

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Mac:
And yeah, but we had some really good folks like this weekend that were just

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Mac:
really, really smooth and didn't really rush.

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Mac:
I mean, they were already well on their way, you know, being really good at advance control.

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Mac:
And it was actually really refreshing to see the amount of smoothness that the folks had.

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Mac:
And I didn't really have to go around until people slowed down at all this weekend. can.

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Mac:
So that was kind of a nice, nice thing.

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Mac:
For sure because the tempo was already there and part of it was from golf the

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Mac:
like one of the ladies that was here was lpga golfer for 27 years and of course

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Mac:
smooth abilities and tempo and all that was already very well mastered in the

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Mac:
game of golf for her so she kind of already had that which was which was nice yeah.

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Marvin:
And so you're all done with schools right until the fall.

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Mac:
Yeah the next cast in school will do is um in september

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Mac:
then we'll just get a lot bunch of little mini weekend type

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Mac:
of things for the next couple months still with uh there's

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Mac:
a wet fly school streamer school we have little

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Mac:
little weekend courses that specify and they kind of go in

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Mac:
in depth to just those those topics you know it's not like 50 ways to mend a

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Mac:
line or anything like that it's just all about wet fly game and the streamer

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Mac:
weekend's all about rates of retrieval and how we how do we fish streamers productively

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Mac:
with the different line choices and they cover all of kind of those kinds of topics.

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Mac:
And so, yeah, pretty much, pretty much done until fill the one in the, in September.

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Marvin:
Yeah. But obviously, you know, great opportunity. If you can come up to Bryson

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Marvin:
city with your family, check out one of those classes.

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Marvin:
And then of course, you know, I know, cause I talked to you earlier this week,

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Marvin:
you're on the sticks guiding folks too.

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Mac:
Oh yeah. It's been, yeah, it's starting to be that time of year where people

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Mac:
are thinking about being on the water.

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Mac:
It's finally greened up. And I think Wednesday, I think tomorrow they're talking

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Mac:
about hitting mid-80s, which will be the first warm day we've had like that

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Mac:
kind of one, you know, for this year. We've been in the low 70s quite a bit.

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Mac:
So that'll be a nice step. And I think it's supposed to be a really nice outlet

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Mac:
the next couple of weeks.

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Marvin:
Yeah. And so if folks wanted to get more information on any of those offerings,

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Marvin:
where should they go, Mack Brown?

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Mac:
Oh, mackbrownflyfish.com. That's the easiest. It has all those classes and the

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Mac:
menu item up at the top, and it will say specialty classes, and it'll describe

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Mac:
the dates for all the different things.

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Mac:
That's probably the best place to find it.

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Marvin:
Yeah, well, there you go. Well, I'll let you get back to seeing if any bugs

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Marvin:
are gonna come off on Deep Creek tonight.

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Marvin:
And you know, folks, you owe it to yourself to get out there and catch a few.

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Marvin:
Tight lines, everybody. Tight lines, Mac.

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Mac:
Tight lines, Marvin.