Avery Wilder is a two year industry veteran stylist and licensed for one year.

Today we're going to hear her startup story, how she went from being a student to being a hairdresser.

Did she weigh the in being independent versus going.

Going into a salon?

How did she find a salon?

She told us a little bit about shadowing in previous conversations.

So what were.

What was this like?

What was this experience like?

And where is she now and what are her plans for the future?

Welcome back to the Hairdresser Strong show.

My name is Robert Hughes and I am your host.

And today I'm with Avery Wilder.

How you doing today, Avery?

I'm good.

How are you?

I'm good, thank you so much.

So I met you.

I mean, I feel like we went to a beta, right?

Yeah.

And then you ended up coming in and taking a class with me.

How did that happen?

Did.

Was it like a raffle giveaway or did you buy the ticket or how did that work?

It was.

You did a little quiz with us at the end of your time at the school and I had the highest score and so I got the ticket to the pixie class.

Okay, so you won a ticket.

Nice.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Okay, so we did.

That was a foundation's cutting, I think, right?

Yeah, for pixie cuts.

Oh, the pixie cutting class.

Oh, nice.

That's right.

That was a good class.

So that was like a one day deep dive.

We did like three different short haircuts.

I like the bixie and pixie couple different ways.

Okay, cool.

Awesome.

Well, I look forward to later on in this conversation hearing about you, what you're doing as far as your craft and stuff.

But first, let's get started with.

So clearly we gave it away already.

You went to Aveda, you graduated and you got licensed about a year ago.

Yeah.

Okay.

And so I guess to get started is.

Well, one, I'm curious.

When you joined school, did you have any idea what you wanted, how you wanted?

Like, obviously you were going to school, so you get a license.

Cosmetology license.

But like, what other thoughts did you have about your future when you joined, signed up for school?

Not many.

I had actually never been in a salon before.

I'd never used a hairdryer before I got to school.

So I was just kind of trying it out.

It was something that I was always interested in and just wanted to explore more.

Nice, nice.

Okay, cool.

So you signed up with the idea of exploring more.

So you not even like you were committed to this being a career?

I wanted it to be, but I truly had no idea what to expect.

Yeah, you just didn't know enough to be 100.

Okay.

So you went in thinking, like, I think this is going to be cool, but I'm going to figure it out as I go.

Okay, cool.

All right.

So as you're going through, like, at what point in time did you start thinking about the next step in, like, taking action?

And what was that action?

It was in phase one.

So the first 10 weeks of school, we were learning a layered haircut.

And during the demo, I, like, cried because it just made sense.

The math.

Math for me.

And that was the first time I've felt like that in anything in my lights.

So then I realized I really wanted to, like, focus on cutting and really get my basics down because everyone kept saying, once you know the rules, you can break them.

So I was like, if I can learn this, then I can do whatever I want with this stuff.

So.

Nice.

Okay, so.

So that's when you're like, okay, I'm into cutting.

Okay, so then what did you do with that information?

Like, how did you turn that into some sort of action?

I just kept cutting hair.

I.

Every chance I had, I did a haircut on my friends on mannequins.

I just kept doing it and figuring out how it worked.

And then I'd watch.

I was assisting at a salon at the time, and I'd watch the stylist, like, as I was sweeping around their station and see and be like, oh, okay, like, this is how it works.

This is what I want to do.

If I do it this way, then I get this result.

So just kind of breaking it down even more past the theory that I learned in school.

Were you in school while you were assisting?

Yes.

Oh, okay.

So a little extra credit.

Were you going to school part time or full time?

I was full time.

Okay, and so how did you find the salon to assist that?

I.

They came to a career fair, I believe, and I had applied to a bunch of them that were there because I needed a job.

But this one, they had a lot of great benefits and things, and it was conveniently located and they had a lot of locations.

So if I didn't have a shift at one, they said I could go to another.

Okay, and how far into school were you when you started looking?

I started looking in phase one, like at the beginning, but I didn't secure it until phase two.

So the 20 weeks into school, 20.

20 weeks into a what, a 50 week program?

More so like that?

Yeah, yeah, something like that.

It's like A year about?

Basically, yeah.

Okay.

Just to give context to people who are listening to this who might have different state rules and licensing and stuff.

Okay, so you're less than halfway through school before you start going out and applying for salons and trying to get a job.

And was that process easy for you to find a place?

Not at all.

I had originally applied at a bunch of salons, but this specific one at a different location that they said they were hiring for.

It turned out to just be a shadowing experience and they did not have a position for me to fill.

So then I went another couple weeks before they reached out and said another branch of their salon needed someone.

But before that, I was applying to every.

Every job, trying to get something.

And yeah, so it was definitely a struggle to get in there.

How many salons did you interview with?

For my first one, I want to.

Say about three and.

Okay.

And did you have any trouble getting interviews?

I wouldn't say getting the interview was the hard part.

I think that they just didn't really know what they wanted.

They wanted someone to assist or be a shampoo assistant, whatever they called that position, but they didn't.

When I said, oh, I'm in school, I want to help with X, Y, Z, they were like, oh, we don't really need that.

We need a cleaning lady.

And I was like, so, okay, okay.

All right.

So at least you knew to ask and talk about what you would be doing, because I feel like, I feel like sometimes, you know, the word assistant.

Like the word assistant is you're assisting the stylist and the stylist needs assisting because their customer needs a coffee, there's laundry that needs to be done.

So you're like assisting the salon by helping the laundry.

But then there's like assistants who are like assisting a style, a stylist, and like applying color or doing blow dries or just shampooing and doing.

Applying toners or whatever.

And so like in some places an assistant or an apprentice or something, they do all of that stuff.

And, and so like, having the ability to like, ask those questions and get, get clarity about what the actual expectation is is definitely not a burden on the applicant.

But, but if it's not being given to you by the interviewee, then it's very smart to ask those questions.

So I guess the, the PSA here or ISA industry service announcement is, is, is, is make sure you can communicate what you want from somebody because that's going to set you up as a business for finding people who are going to be a Good fit.

But also as a student or a new applicant, make sure you're asking the questions just in case that person is either not prepared or not telling you everything.

Okay, so you went and worked at the salon and what was that experience like?

So you.

Wait, so you were assisting and then you were in school.

So did you stay at the same school through the length of school until you graduated?

Did you switch salons or anything?

I ended up switching salons after about four to six months, I believe.

It was a chain salon, which I knew I didn't want in the long term, and there was no growth for me there within the next year.

Even so I decided to make that move early on so that I'm not feeling like I'm stuck there and not having an in to another salon.

So I did end up switching to another one around the corner from it.

And I started off assisting there while I was still in school for the last three months, I believe.

And then, then I graduated, got my license and was on the floor there.

And about four months after I got my license.

Okay, so.

So you're Anna's in a, in a salon.

You're working there.

Are, are you, are you doing, what type of work are you doing at that salon?

I was, I started as an assistant, which was classified as a.

It was listed as shampoo assistant, technically salon assistance.

So we still did shampoos, toners, general sweeping, cleaning up, and then also the retail area.

So restocking, cleaning the shelves, things like that.

All very important pieces of the salon for sure.

Well, what about classes?

Did you get to take any classes?

Yeah, so the, that salon did have a new talent program, which I really appreciated.

You have to take all the classes that the salon offered.

You were.

The new talents are required to go.

So there was a couple cutting classes, a blondes class, and then one on one, I had a couple of just like, hey, I need help learning this haircut kind of thing.

Okay, cool.

So you're getting education, you're getting experience, but you're.

But they tell you that there is no current opportunity for you to move on to the floor, even if you go through the training program.

Is that what they told you?

Not necessarily.

So we had to test out at that salon.

We had a written and a practical test, like for the salon separate from licensing or anything.

And I had passed the written, which was mostly color theory.

And then I passed shortcuts, men's cut or sorry, long cuts, men's cuts and coloring, but I didn't pass my shortcuts.

So they Put me on the floor for everything but shortcuts.

And even then, I still had to go to all the required classes and everything like that.

And then I retested my shortcuts after a couple of one on ones with a couple of stylists in there.

And then you.

So wait, I thought you said you didn't have a growth opportunity at that salon.

This.

This is technically the second one I was at.

Oh, okay.

So what.

What about the first salon?

Like, you.

You were taking classes there too?

No, there were no.

There was no education.

There was open chairs, but they didn't explicitly offer them to anybody.

They weren't hiring for them.

I really was just doing shampoos and.

And sleeping.

Gotcha.

Okay, so.

All right, cool.

So.

So then you were like, okay, no, I need to go somewhere that has opportunity.

You found a place, you went to the program, you got on the floor, and then you left them.

Yeah.

Okay, tell us that story.

That was.

The salon, financially, wasn't where I felt it should be in order for me to make the money that I want to be making.

Like, what does that mean?

They didn't have enough new client traffic?

Not even that.

Just.

It wasn't making a profit.

They.

I don't know where the money was going, but it wasn't in the right places.

How did that come up?

Like, how do you even know?

Like, I feel like if a business isn't making money, the employees aren't the first people to know.

I would think, like, the business owner would be strategizing to figure, like, how did that.

How did that conversation even happen?

It didn't happen for a while, and then a couple of us started looking at our checks and realizing that our commission was off by about 5 to 10%.

That's.

Sorry.

I had a similar situation.

So go ahead.

Um, yeah, so we kind of all were talking about it in the break room, as hairstylists do.

Oh, yeah.

Dangerous clay.

You know, eventually it did come from management that we were going to have a meeting about, like, the state of the salon.

And we were told that they had three options.

One was to close.

The others were to be bought out by someone and hope that we get to keep our jobs.

And the third is to raise prices and hopefully get our commission percentage back up.

So I wasn't feeling any of those options.

Yeah, well, it's not like, man, that's tough.

So how long were you there before that happened?

I was there just over a year.

Okay, so it sounds like you left not that long ago based on.

Yeah, Production about Five, four or five months ago.

Okay, awesome.

All right, so.

So then you moved again.

Yes.

And.

And this time when you moved, because I think the two salons that you were at were close geographically.

Yeah.

They were in D.C. inside the city.

And then now you're out in Annapolis.

Right.

Which is, you know, at least a 30 minute drive with no traffic.

So that's a much further distance, which means any clients you had probably aren't going to follow you, you know, but luckily it was only four or five months or no.

How long did you say you were there?

A year.

But you went through training, so hopefully you didn't feel like you were losing too much.

So tell us about, like that process, like deciding to leave.

How do you find the next salon, etc.

Yeah, so I interviewed at another salon down here that was an Aveda salon because I had only worked with Aveda at that point and I just didn't really connect with.

Wasn't where I saw myself.

It was very.

Upscale is the wrong word.

I like elevated services.

I like the luxurious feel.

But that's the salon that you're at behind you right now, right?

Yeah.

So if you're watching on YouTube, you can see it's a really pretty salon.

If you're listening on podcast, there's like a chandelier in the.

In the middle of that and it looks like some pretty decent, nice quality service chairs.

And so it looks pretty nice.

Okay, sorry, go ahead.

I just want.

Because some people only listen, they don't watch this.

Yeah.

So the other salon that I had interviewed with, the Aveda one, was just not the standard that I knew I wanted to be at.

And I was hoping that this would be my spot for at least the next five years.

So I wanted somewhere that I felt comfortable, that I wanted to grow, that I felt like matched who I am.

And so.

So after my interview there, I actually just walked down the street looking to see what other salons were in the area and I found this one.

And when I came in, the front desk girl, she's.

I love her.

She's so sweet.

She was so excited.

I asked if I could look around.

She took me on a tour and I got to meet a couple of the girls and then I applied and when I came back, she remembered who I was.

So.

So it was like, it just felt like it was just meant to be once I found it.

Nice.

Cool.

Awesome.

So can you.

So it sounds like there were really good vibes.

It had the aesthetic or like, you know, I associate the aesthetic with the customer Experience.

Like, what.

What is my customer going to experience when they're in your salon?

That's how I always look at it.

So, like, I'm picking a place based on a step aesthetic and vibes, for sure.

And it's kind of crazy like, that, that we make such big decisions based on something that I feel like other people in other industries might think are so emotional or trivial, but, like, I feel like that's our business.

Like, that.

Like, we're trying to make people happy and look good, you know, it's like, oh, man.

Okay, so.

All right, so you found a place, and so.

And you got to check it out.

So tell us a little bit about, like, what you're.

What.

What it's looking like for you now and what you're looking at, like, for the future, what you're working on right now.

Anything.

Any specific techniques or.

Or.

Or, I don't know, anything.

Any.

It could be a business thing.

It could be a craft thing.

It could be a personal thing.

Yeah.

So when I got here, I was hired as a stylist, so I didn't have to assist or anything.

And actually, two other stylists had left right when I got here, so I kind of inherited their books for a little bit.

That's huge.

Yeah, it was really good timing on my end, and it sort of died down because they are finding, like, if they mesh with me or not, which, at the end of the day, either they're gonna stay or they're not.

It's not.

They liked their hair, but they're like, okay, I got my.

My discount for trying you, and now I'm moving on, so.

But I'm at a point where my clients are coming back.

I have my regulars, so I feel really comfortable with that.

And I actually just started a barbering apprenticeship to get my barber's license as well.

So I'm really excited about that.

And.

Yeah.

Nice.

Okay, cool.

So you're adding.

You're adding skill sets.

You're building your clientele.

You're getting the repeat customers.

You're kind of on your way to building your clientele, and that's awesome.

That's exciting.

So.

So tell.

Tell me.

Like, I love the fact that you're at a salon, but that's because I think that everybody should start off at a salon or a shop.

That's just my personal opinion.

No one has to agree with me, but that's not going to change my opinion.

Like, you know, we've seen so many people have so much more success by going into a salon first, gaining all this experience that you've got.

I mean, just by working at those few places, I imagine that you've learned so much.

I mean, going.

Being at a place that's having to have a meeting with you like that, where they like, yo, we're going out of business.

But, like, we have a couple of options.

Like, just that in of itself, yourself being there and going through that.

You know, some people could be thinking about the stress, but, like, you could also think about, like, what a learning experience.

Like, just, like, if you ever want to open up your own business, knowing that if you don't have your money, right, then you're gonna have to have some embarrassing conversation like that, where you basically just, like, told everybody, you should quit now and run, you know?

So, like.

So.

I mean, that sucks for those people, but, like, it's so.

I. I don't know.

Anyway, so what?

Did you consider going independent at a school?

Why?

Why not?

How did that whole thought process happen?

Because I know that's a popular thing.

I know it's not as popular now.

I don't.

As it was maybe when you were in school, it seems like it's a little less popular to go straight and independent.

People still want to do it eventually.

But anyway.

What a.

Tell me what your thoughts are on that.

Yeah, I really wanted to, like, go into a suite or something out of school, but I knew, realistically that it was not possible.

Why?

Because I didn't have a book.

I didn't have the skill set that I knew I wanted to have to have the prices that I wanted to have.

And I felt like I learned so much in school because I asked a lot of questions, and if you're by yourself, there's no one to ask those questions to.

And then going through all the salons that I was at, there were.

There's always someone who knows what you want to know.

So there's having those resources of someone who specializes in curly cut, someone who specializes in color that I can just grab and be like, hey, can you just check this?

Even if I did the service by myself, just having that, like, reassurance that I'm on the right track, and I can't imagine starting without having that.

So not having the resources and being, like, on your own just doesn't seem like a good business decision.

Definitely not.

Oh, that was good.

I did not expect you to say that.

And, no, I did not prep and ask Avery to say that before.

I had no idea.

Oh, my gosh.

Okay.

So I would definitely agree with you.

So So I guess the other quite kind of like go feeding off of that or like kind of off of that question, what is it?

I mean, so like you thought about being independent, but you were like, I need to go somewhere where I can grow and I can learn.

And, and so that means that you had to like find a salon that you wanted to actually grow and learn at.

And you said, I need somewhere I'm going to be for five years, which to me is like, is the perfect number.

Because five years is enough time to build the clientele, build your emergency fund, and then save up like a nest egg of money.

Not a nest egg, like a, like a pool of money.

If you want to like do something, start a business, buy a house, whatever, like that investment fund versus like your emergency fund.

So like, because we noticed, like people will save up emergency fund and then get an opportunity and use the emergency fund to start their business.

And then, and then they need an emergency fund for their.

Now they need two emergency funds, one for their business, you know.

Anyway, so tell us for all the salon owners listening, what do they, what do you want to share with them about?

Find like, they want to attract someone like you who thinks and talks like you and like, and is like thinking about like their, their, their craft and their, and their, and their work as their career.

And they're thinking with a longer term perspective.

And so like, and we talked about vibes and aesthetics.

So like, this is it, you know, I want to kind of like, as we gonna wrap things up, I want, I like to end with you giving us a piece of advice that's relevant.

And so like in this one, it seems like the most relevant advice would be to the student in school and to the salon owner who wants to hire a person with your kind of attitude and kind of outlook.

Yeah, I say for students is advocate for yourself.

Like I said, someone knows what you want to know.

You just have to find them.

And I preach that every day in school.

You just have to really want it in order to get it.

So if you're not gonna apply yourself 100% and you're not gonna show up and you're not gonna try your best, like, that's how much money you're gonna make.

That's the difference between making the big bucks or working at hair cuttery.

Like, it's not the same.

No, I'd say like to salons just being transparent about what your expectations are of your staff and then also them being transparent of what they're looking for out of the salon and just really having that like support for your staff.

Because if you can't, if I can't go to my manager and be like, hey, like this happened with this client or I need, I'm going to post this.

This is what my like advertisement is going to be.

If you can't have those conversations to build your own book and protect your own boundaries as a stylist, then it's not going to be a good spot for you.

Nice.

Nice.

Okay.

And so, so wait, that sounded like that was advice for the student.

Is that.

Yeah.

So what about for the salon owner who's looking to attract someone like you?

I think your, your, your guest services staff is the front of your business.

So making sure that those are people that are gonna make people wanna come back and interview and things like that.

Because that meant so much to me that she remembered who I was when I came back for my interview.

And just being open to what your stylists have to say.

This is their craft, this is their career.

It might just be you're the owner of the salon and you might not know anything about hair.

So the people who are in it literally are the ones who are going to know what's going to work best business wise and for them as an artist.

Totally.

Yeah, totally.

Like, I think the, the old school, like, hey, I'm a, I'm a really busy and exceptional hairdresser.

I'm gonna open up a salon and train a bunch of mini me's is over.

Like those days aren't.

That's like not really a thing.

I mean some people might have that star power, but that's like, that's what most salons were for a long time before social media.

Social media disrupted that whole game.

And now there's a new game in town and that is definitely like what you're talking about, like creating a space for people to build and grow a career.

It's very different than having a, a salon that has like, it's like, hey, this is Robert Salon and everyone does hair like Robert in the salon.

Like that that's not really Robert Salon.

Now Robert Salon is Robert Place of stylists who are amazing, but everyone's different and unique and runs their own business.

And anyway, that's a whole separate conversation and a lot of my points I just made are up for debate and we can car.

We can have that conversation at another time.

But this was, this was very awesome.

But I didn't, I don't think I realized even in talking to you some of the dynamics that you had had to deal with so early in your career.

And.

And I love the fact that you're here still because, like, some people might have missed.

Some people quit when they experience that adversity because they think, like, the industry sucks.

Like, you were at one place, you could have been super negative about it.

It's like, oh, the first place you're at, you're like, oh, well, you know, like, they have these chairs.

Like, they're not going to promote.

Promote me.

It must be because their business sucks, and they just want to keep me as a cleaning lady, and I'm being exploited.

I'm going to go somewhere else.

And then, oh, my gosh, this salon, they can't even run their books, and now they've been stealing from my paycheck, and now I'm going to, like, now I'm just going to, like, go and, like, do something else.

And that's, like, a not an uncommon thing.

Or they end up going independent, but because like you said, you didn't have the resources, you end up kind of failing out of being independent.

And then you definitely think it's the hair or the industry or people suck, you know, whatever.

So I. I'm so happy to see you're here.

I'm so happy to see you smiling and so happy.

I'm so glad you found a place.

And I really do appreciate you taking the time to share your story, sharing your advice with others, and I definitely want to talk more in the future, but until then, is there any last thing you'd like to share or say before we sign off?

Advocate for yourself, even once you get a job.

Keep pushing.

Get your education.

Keep getting education.

Nice.

Awesome.

All right, well, thank you again.

And until next time, I'll see you later.

Thank you so much.